Hello,

Chrismast dinner is in the stomach or shitted out and ofcourse we chatted, 
my mother and I... and things are about to get serious because I offered my 
mammie to take her to an electronics/computer store on tuesday which is 
tomorrow... so it's a bit short notice but I think it's ok, if we can't 
decide then we will postpone me thinks ! ;) :)

Currently I am looking into options and the latest and greatest laptop 
processor seems to be either an intel icore 5 or amd phentom II  (I am bit 
suspicious of these processors since one laptop with an icore5 was turned 
off when I visitted the store while all others where on (went to buy a 
shaver))

Where they trying to save it ? Save power ? Save electricity ? Was there 
something wrong with it... I don't know..

What I do know is:

The processor should be 64 bit and have windows 7 in 64 bit coming with it, 
because that's the pretty near future... so no 32 bit operating system for 
my mother... 32 bit is dead and won't be supported for much longer by 
Microsoft. So that's for certain.

I would prefer the phentom II because it has sse 4a which I consider to be 
more important for general purpose compression... but maybe sse 4.1a from 
intel is also kinda nice for video. So I am still a bit in a doubt about 
that.

What I am mostly concerned about is a wireless router + wireless support in 
a laptop.

Now perhaps I could make a cable from the basement to the ground floor but I 
am not sure if my mother wants a cable running through her hallway...

Currently the internet cable goes through a plastic pipe up the attic and 
back down again into the "computer room", which is upstairs. My mum doesn't 
want to go up the stairs anymore just to view the e-mail or internet which 
is understandable...

So I/we were thinking about using a wireless router for now, until maybe I 
can sort out if a cable option is possible... perhaps drilling more holes... 
which might be nice for future as cable will probably offer higher and more 
reliable speed without health dangers... I estimate my mother might have at 
least 10 year to live and probably 20 years max... so that's a long time... 
I hope so... :)

I do want her to experience better computing especially screen-wise, so 
perhaps laptop not the best choice... but a big clunky computer in the 
living room ain't her style.

Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at least:
2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of 
hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which 
means metal bars could be running through it... but probably not... those 
only in the basement.

So the question is:

What wireless router can go through 40 centimeters of though concrete ?!?!? 
(plus a bit of wood, glue and perhaps plastics).

Currently Wireless N seems to be all the rage... but I would like it to 
support Wireless G as well in case anybody else comes there and wants to use 
internet as well...

I have seen some router reviews and user comments but none so far are 
statisfieing to them or me... (I am just starting to look into this 
though... )

Bye,
  Skybuck. 

Hmm..

I see one electronics engineer mention that no wireless router will go 
through concrete...

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7589_102-283549.html

What about wood though ?

On the ground level there is a closest where the cables run through... so 
it's probably possible to let the utp cable come out of there...

Then I could place a wireless router in there...

The signals could then bounce around through the hallways ? and wooden/glass 
doors ?

At least there could be reception in kitchen and living room ?

But then signals would have to bounce at least once or so...

Will they bounce ? hmmm...

Weird.

Maybe this is why "cell phone internet" is becoming more populair... *it* 
*does* go through concrete while wireless routers might not ? hmmm...

Then again I am 5 floors high in my appartment and had multiple wifi signals 
coming through the glass from god knows where... hmm... so at least wifi 
signals will go through glass that's for sure. Perhaps those signals are 
coming from a "line-of-sight" situation/building/window.

Bye,
  Skybuck.


"Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:2b5cb$4d185e06$54190f09$24946@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> Chrismast dinner is in the stomach or shitted out and ofcourse we chatted, 
> my mother and I... and things are about to get serious because I offered 
> my mammie to take her to an electronics/computer store on tuesday which is 
> tomorrow... so it's a bit short notice but I think it's ok, if we can't 
> decide then we will postpone me thinks ! ;) :)
>
> Currently I am looking into options and the latest and greatest laptop 
> processor seems to be either an intel icore 5 or amd phentom II  (I am bit 
> suspicious of these processors since one laptop with an icore5 was turned 
> off when I visitted the store while all others where on (went to buy a 
> shaver))
>
> Where they trying to save it ? Save power ? Save electricity ? Was there 
> something wrong with it... I don't know..
>
> What I do know is:
>
> The processor should be 64 bit and have windows 7 in 64 bit coming with 
> it, because that's the pretty near future... so no 32 bit operating system 
> for my mother... 32 bit is dead and won't be supported for much longer by 
> Microsoft. So that's for certain.
>
> I would prefer the phentom II because it has sse 4a which I consider to be 
> more important for general purpose compression... but maybe sse 4.1a from 
> intel is also kinda nice for video. So I am still a bit in a doubt about 
> that.
>
> What I am mostly concerned about is a wireless router + wireless support 
> in a laptop.
>
> Now perhaps I could make a cable from the basement to the ground floor but 
> I am not sure if my mother wants a cable running through her hallway...
>
> Currently the internet cable goes through a plastic pipe up the attic and 
> back down again into the "computer room", which is upstairs. My mum 
> doesn't want to go up the stairs anymore just to view the e-mail or 
> internet which is understandable...
>
> So I/we were thinking about using a wireless router for now, until maybe I 
> can sort out if a cable option is possible... perhaps drilling more 
> holes... which might be nice for future as cable will probably offer 
> higher and more reliable speed without health dangers... I estimate my 
> mother might have at least 10 year to live and probably 20 years max... so 
> that's a long time... I hope so... :)
>
> I do want her to experience better computing especially screen-wise, so 
> perhaps laptop not the best choice... but a big clunky computer in the 
> living room ain't her style.
>
> Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at 
> least:
> 2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of 
> hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which 
> means metal bars could be running through it... but probably not... those 
> only in the basement.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What wireless router can go through 40 centimeters of though concrete 
> ?!?!? (plus a bit of wood, glue and perhaps plastics).
>
> Currently Wireless N seems to be all the rage... but I would like it to 
> support Wireless G as well in case anybody else comes there and wants to 
> use internet as well...
>
> I have seen some router reviews and user comments but none so far are 
> statisfieing to them or me... (I am just starting to look into this 
> though... )
>
> Bye,
>  Skybuck.
> 

Well I just had a little phone chat with my mother... one of my sister has 
experience with wireless tooo, but maybe she has thin walls...

Mammie said, sales person once said it wasn't a problem and wireless routers 
which can through walls would work... question is ofcourse... do they exist 
? ;) :)

Anyway it's not a big financial problem because these wireless routers are 
cheap like 100 euro's or less... but I would still like to prevent any 
disappointments and time lost... because for me... time is valuable ;) and 
also necessary hessle ;) :)

But mammie agreed it's worth an experiment... mammie wants to go looksy for 
now... but euhm... hmmm I think it's time for purchase at least laptop and 
router... I think we can find a good deal tomorrow, if not maybe after 
newyear or so ;) :)
then I can still look into nvidia chip for laptop, but most seem to come 
with ATI... I think this might be because of nvidia chip troubles with 
cold/heat/cold/heat-cracks ;) so maybe their reputation dead.

Bye,
  Skybuck.

"Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:f3963$4d18627d$54190f09$30714@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hmm..
>
> I see one electronics engineer mention that no wireless router will go 
> through concrete...
>
> http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7589_102-283549.html
>
> What about wood though ?
>
> On the ground level there is a closest where the cables run through... so 
> it's probably possible to let the utp cable come out of there...
>
> Then I could place a wireless router in there...
>
> The signals could then bounce around through the hallways ? and 
> wooden/glass doors ?
>
> At least there could be reception in kitchen and living room ?
>
> But then signals would have to bounce at least once or so...
>
> Will they bounce ? hmmm...
>
> Weird.
>
> Maybe this is why "cell phone internet" is becoming more populair... *it* 
> *does* go through concrete while wireless routers might not ? hmmm...
>
> Then again I am 5 floors high in my appartment and had multiple wifi 
> signals coming through the glass from god knows where... hmm... so at 
> least wifi signals will go through glass that's for sure. Perhaps those 
> signals are coming from a "line-of-sight" situation/building/window.
>
> Bye,
>  Skybuck.
>
>
> "Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:2b5cb$4d185e06$54190f09$24946@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
>> Hello,
>>
>> Chrismast dinner is in the stomach or shitted out and ofcourse we 
>> chatted, my mother and I... and things are about to get serious because I 
>> offered my mammie to take her to an electronics/computer store on tuesday 
>> which is tomorrow... so it's a bit short notice but I think it's ok, if 
>> we can't decide then we will postpone me thinks ! ;) :)
>>
>> Currently I am looking into options and the latest and greatest laptop 
>> processor seems to be either an intel icore 5 or amd phentom II  (I am 
>> bit suspicious of these processors since one laptop with an icore5 was 
>> turned off when I visitted the store while all others where on (went to 
>> buy a shaver))
>>
>> Where they trying to save it ? Save power ? Save electricity ? Was there 
>> something wrong with it... I don't know..
>>
>> What I do know is:
>>
>> The processor should be 64 bit and have windows 7 in 64 bit coming with 
>> it, because that's the pretty near future... so no 32 bit operating 
>> system for my mother... 32 bit is dead and won't be supported for much 
>> longer by Microsoft. So that's for certain.
>>
>> I would prefer the phentom II because it has sse 4a which I consider to 
>> be more important for general purpose compression... but maybe sse 4.1a 
>> from intel is also kinda nice for video. So I am still a bit in a doubt 
>> about that.
>>
>> What I am mostly concerned about is a wireless router + wireless support 
>> in a laptop.
>>
>> Now perhaps I could make a cable from the basement to the ground floor 
>> but I am not sure if my mother wants a cable running through her 
>> hallway...
>>
>> Currently the internet cable goes through a plastic pipe up the attic and 
>> back down again into the "computer room", which is upstairs. My mum 
>> doesn't want to go up the stairs anymore just to view the e-mail or 
>> internet which is understandable...
>>
>> So I/we were thinking about using a wireless router for now, until maybe 
>> I can sort out if a cable option is possible... perhaps drilling more 
>> holes... which might be nice for future as cable will probably offer 
>> higher and more reliable speed without health dangers... I estimate my 
>> mother might have at least 10 year to live and probably 20 years max... 
>> so that's a long time... I hope so... :)
>>
>> I do want her to experience better computing especially screen-wise, so 
>> perhaps laptop not the best choice... but a big clunky computer in the 
>> living room ain't her style.
>>
>> Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at 
>> least:
>> 2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of 
>> hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which 
>> means metal bars could be running through it... but probably not... those 
>> only in the basement.
>>
>> So the question is:
>>
>> What wireless router can go through 40 centimeters of though concrete 
>> ?!?!? (plus a bit of wood, glue and perhaps plastics).
>>
>> Currently Wireless N seems to be all the rage... but I would like it to 
>> support Wireless G as well in case anybody else comes there and wants to 
>> use internet as well...
>>
>> I have seen some router reviews and user comments but none so far are 
>> statisfieing to them or me... (I am just starting to look into this 
>> though... )
>>
>> Bye,
>>  Skybuck.
>>
>
> 

Oh yeah one more little detail...

Wireless router has to work with skype, since that is used sometimes as well 
by mammie and certain other people ;) :) like probably family members ;)

Bye,
  Skybuck. 

"Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:76a01$4d186801$54190f09$6681@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Oh yeah one more little detail...
>
> Wireless router has to work with skype, since that is used sometimes as 
> well by mammie and certain other people ;) :) like probably family members 
> ;)
>
> Bye,
>  Skybuck.
>
Skype has nothing to do with it....
Routers come in two flavours- cable or telephone line - get the right one!
Get a 'high power' router + high power wireless card for the laptop.
Can only tell you about netgear...
http://www.netgear.com/home/products/wirelessrouters/high-performance/WNDR3400.aspx

should go through a certain amount of concrete,not directly, but via 
windows, doors, glass etc. 

"TTman" <pcw1.cad@ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:if9q29$2sn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:76a01$4d186801$54190f09$6681@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
>> Oh yeah one more little detail...
>>
>> Wireless router has to work with skype, since that is used sometimes as 
>> well by mammie and certain other people ;) :) like probably family 
>> members ;)
>>
>> Bye,
>>  Skybuck.
>>
> Skype has nothing to do with it....

I'm not so sure about that...

If skype uses tcp/ip or udp... and the router does NAT... then I can imagine 
some sort of problem...

I saw at least one user comment mention that some routers have problems with 
"voip"... and thus could include skype and I think skype was mentioned 
too...

> Routers come in two flavours- cable or telephone line - get the right one!

Good tip. With cable you mean utp ?

> Get a 'high power' router + high power wireless card for the laptop.

That's what wireless N is for ?

> Can only tell you about netgear...
> http://www.netgear.com/home/products/wirelessrouters/high-performance/WNDR3400.aspx
>
> should go through a certain amount of concrete,not directly, but via 
> windows, doors, glass etc.

Hmm not much use I'm afraid... it will have to go through concrete 
directly... at least floor/ceiling, and perhaps also walls if place on floor 
level.

I might give it a try anyway.

Bye,
  Skybuck.

>>>
>>> Bye,
>>>  Skybuck.
>>>
>> Skype has nothing to do with it....
>
> I'm not so sure about that...
>
skype works 100% with my netgear router... 

In article <f3963$4d18627d$54190f09$30714@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
Skybuck Flying <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hmm..
>
>I see one electronics engineer mention that no wireless router will go 
>through concrete...

>http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7589_102-283549.html

The big problem isn't just the concrete itself... it's also the rebar.

Almost all concrete installed these days (and for many years) is
"reinforced".  The concrete is poured around a mesh (usually) of steel
bars or wires, which increase the concrete's ability to resist
breaking and fracturing.

Between the steel (which is both conductive, and lossy) and the
concrete itself (which retains some amount of moisture, and contains
salts, and is thus both conductive and lossy) concrete serves as a
pretty good absorber of most radio-frequency energy.  A well-built
concrete building behaves like a crude Faraday cage... RF on the
outside doesn't get inside very well, and RF on the inside doesn't
leak out efficiently.

Interior walls made of reinforced concrete will have a similar effect.

This isn't an issue just for WiFi.  It also affects other radio
frequencies to a similar degree (although the attenuation differs).
AM radio, FM, UHF and VHF radio, cellphone signals... all are greatly
weakened by going through concrete.

>What about wood though ?

Wood and sheet-rock do attenuate WiFi signals, but to a much lesser
degree.

On the other hand, wood house-sheathing or interior sheet-rock walls
which contains a metallized plastic film as part of a "vapor barrier"
or energy-saving system, will act as a extremely efficient barrier to
WiFi and other radio signals.

>On the ground level there is a closest where the cables run through... so 
>it's probably possible to let the utp cable come out of there...
>
>Then I could place a wireless router in there...
>
>The signals could then bounce around through the hallways ? and wooden/glass 
>doors ?
>
>At least there could be reception in kitchen and living room ?
>
>But then signals would have to bounce at least once or so...
>
>Will they bounce ? hmmm...

They'll bounce, and they'll also go right through the walls to a
significant extent.  The wireless system's range, indoors, will be
quite a bit less than it would be outdoors in "clear air" but it won't
be too bad.

Try sticking the router in the closet... just configure it stand-alone
and don't worry about running the UTP cable to the rest of your
network.  Test the signal while walking around the house, and see
where you can and cannot get adequate signal coverage.  There's a fair
chance it will work acceptably well.

>Maybe this is why "cell phone internet" is becoming more populair... *it* 
>*does* go through concrete while wireless routers might not ? hmmm...

Cellphone systems are affected in the same way WiFi signals are...
they don't go through concrete efficiently, either.  If you've ever
had to wave a cellphone around to get service while indoors, or have
had to walk outside to get enough bars to make a call, you'd see this
same phenomenon.

Some commercial buildings now contain cell-phone "repeater" systems
(wired up to antennas on the roof) or "picocell" or "femtocell"
stations (small, low-power miniature "cellphone towers" connected to
the Internet), precisely to work around this problem.

-- 
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>                                   AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page:  http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
  I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
     boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Dec 27, 5:33=A0am, "TTman" <pcw1....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFut...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:76a01$4d186801$54190f09$6681@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...> Oh yeah on=
e more little detail...
>
> > Wireless router has to work with skype, since that is used sometimes as
> > well by mammie and certain other people ;) :) like probably family memb=
ers
> > ;)
>
> > Bye,
> > =A0Skybuck.
>
> Skype has nothing to do with it....
> Routers come in two flavours- cable or telephone line - get the right one=
!
> Get a 'high power' router + high power wireless card for the laptop.
> Can only tell you about netgear...http://www.netgear.com/home/products/wi=
relessrouters/high-performance...
>
> should go through a certain amount of concrete,not directly, but via
> windows, doors, glass etc.

Skybuck specifically said he wanted a router that could go through
wood.
I know Sears, Black & Decker, Dewalt, and Ryobi make several good
ones....

"Skybuck Flying" <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:2b5cb$4d185e06$54190f09$24946@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> Chrismast dinner is in the stomach or shitted out and ofcourse we chatted, 
> my mother and I... and things are about to get serious because I offered 
> my mammie to take her to an electronics/computer store on tuesday which is 
> tomorrow... so it's a bit short notice but I think it's ok, if we can't 
> decide then we will postpone me thinks ! ;) :)
>
> Currently I am looking into options and the latest and greatest laptop 
> processor seems to be either an intel icore 5 or amd phentom II  (I am bit 
> suspicious of these processors since one laptop with an icore5 was turned 
> off when I visitted the store while all others where on (went to buy a 
> shaver))
>
> Where they trying to save it ? Save power ? Save electricity ? Was there 
> something wrong with it... I don't know..
>
> What I do know is:
>
> The processor should be 64 bit and have windows 7 in 64 bit coming with 
> it, because that's the pretty near future... so no 32 bit operating system 
> for my mother... 32 bit is dead and won't be supported for much longer by 
> Microsoft. So that's for certain.
>
> I would prefer the phentom II because it has sse 4a which I consider to be 
> more important for general purpose compression... but maybe sse 4.1a from 
> intel is also kinda nice for video. So I am still a bit in a doubt about 
> that.
>
> What I am mostly concerned about is a wireless router + wireless support 
> in a laptop.
>
> Now perhaps I could make a cable from the basement to the ground floor but 
> I am not sure if my mother wants a cable running through her hallway...
>
> Currently the internet cable goes through a plastic pipe up the attic and 
> back down again into the "computer room", which is upstairs. My mum 
> doesn't want to go up the stairs anymore just to view the e-mail or 
> internet which is understandable...
>
> So I/we were thinking about using a wireless router for now, until maybe I 
> can sort out if a cable option is possible... perhaps drilling more 
> holes... which might be nice for future as cable will probably offer 
> higher and more reliable speed without health dangers... I estimate my 
> mother might have at least 10 year to live and probably 20 years max... so 
> that's a long time... I hope so... :)
>
> I do want her to experience better computing especially screen-wise, so 
> perhaps laptop not the best choice... but a big clunky computer in the 
> living room ain't her style.
>
> Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at 
> least:
> 2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of 
> hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which 
> means metal bars could be running through it... but probably not... those 
> only in the basement.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What wireless router can go through 40 centimeters of though concrete 
> ?!?!? (plus a bit of wood, glue and perhaps plastics).
>
> Currently Wireless N seems to be all the rage... but I would like it to 
> support Wireless G as well in case anybody else comes there and wants to 
> use internet as well...
>
> I have seen some router reviews and user comments but none so far are 
> statisfieing to them or me... (I am just starting to look into this 
> though... )
>
> Bye,
>  Skybuck.
>

what country you in? (power limits on transmitters in different countries 
vary), and how olds the building? (load bearing walls, concrete makeup, even 
interior drywall/sheetrock versus older plaster and lathe 

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 10:58:37 -0800, dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
wrote:

>In article <f3963$4d18627d$54190f09$30714@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
>Skybuck Flying <IntoTheFuture@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hmm..
>>
>>I see one electronics engineer mention that no wireless router will go 
>>through concrete...
>
>>http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7589_102-283549.html
>
>The big problem isn't just the concrete itself... it's also the rebar.

The big problem is the water.  The spacing of rebar is sufficiently
wide that 2.4GHz will mostly go through quite easily.  Some gets
reflected, but most will pass.  However, water absorption is another
story.

<http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi#Attenuation>

>Almost all concrete installed these days (and for many years) is
>"reinforced".  The concrete is poured around a mesh (usually) of steel
>bars or wires, which increase the concrete's ability to resist
>breaking and fracturing.

Welded steel mesh is usually used for floors, not walls.

>Between the steel (which is both conductive, and lossy) and the
>concrete itself (which retains some amount of moisture, and contains
>salts, and is thus both conductive and lossy) concrete serves as a
>pretty good absorber of most radio-frequency energy.

Yep.  Iron oxide, also known as ferrite, is used in many RF
attenuation applications (i.e. ferrite beads).  The surface of stealth
airplanes, ships, tanks, etc use various iron oxide compounds as an RF
absorber to reduce radar reflections.  Since RF likes to flow on the
surface of conductors, the surface coating of rust on the rebar makes
a really nice absorber.

I'm not sure, but I believe concrete is about 1/3 water.  Hit some
concrete with a cutting torch and watch what happens when the water
turns to steam.

>Wood and sheet-rock do attenuate WiFi signals, but to a much lesser
>degree.

Again, it depends on the water content.  Wet wood blocks fairly well.
Dry wood will pass most RF.  Sheet rock or dry wall sometimes comes
with aluminium backing, which is great for heat retention, but also
doesn't pass any RF.  I have a customer with a house full of the
stuff.  No RF goes between rooms, except through the open door.  Using
a cell phone inside is a wasted effort (because the windows are also
coated with titanium dioxide Low-E for energy efficiency).

>On the other hand, wood house-sheathing or interior sheet-rock walls
>which contains a metallized plastic film as part of a "vapor barrier"
>or energy-saving system, will act as a extremely efficient barrier to
>WiFi and other radio signals.

Oh-oh.  I haven't seen any of that.  Most of the vapour barriers I've
seen are just plastic or kevlar material.  Looks like you're right:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_barrier>

>They'll bounce, and they'll also go right through the walls to a
>significant extent.  The wireless system's range, indoors, will be
>quite a bit less than it would be outdoors in "clear air" but it won't
>be too bad.

Even if they do bounce, he'll probably have more than one path between
the access point and the client radio.  This is a good thing for MIMO
and a guaranteed flaky signal for 802.11b/g.

>>Maybe this is why "cell phone internet" is becoming more populair... *it* 
>>*does* go through concrete while wireless routers might not ? hmmm...

Nope.  Same problem, but to a lesser degree.  The difference is that
cellular transmitters are narrow band, while wi-fi is wide band.  You
can trade range for bandwidth, which is why 1Mbit/sec 802.11 data goes
MUCH farther than 54Mbits/sec 802.11g.  That's also why the access
points slow down the transmission rate when the signals are full or
errors.  To get 25Mbits/sec thruput with cellular, you'll need WiMax,
HSDPA, or other 3GPP modulation scheme, which will have similar
issues.  Also, cellular is designed to deal with interference issues,
while Wi-Fi is a big free for all.  If your access point was located
on a rooftop or tower, in an area with little interference, you too
would have great penetration and range.  This is exactly what many
WISP (wireless internet service providers) are going with varying
levels of success.

>Some commercial buildings now contain cell-phone "repeater" systems
>(wired up to antennas on the roof) or "picocell" or "femtocell"
>stations (small, low-power miniature "cellphone towers" connected to
>the Internet), precisely to work around this problem.

I'm making good money selling and installing those.
<http://www.wi-ex.com>
Energy efficient homes tend to be RF screen rooms.


-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

There are powerline networks to be considered.  I installed a Coax 
system in my house (Netgear MCA1001) which works great.  By the way I 
hook the laptop up through the Coax network to my large LCD TV and use 
the TV as a monitor.  My lowbrow friends come over with their beer and 
always want to browse You Tube (most of them are in their sixties and 
should know better :-)).  Though I guess free beer is free beer.  I 
control the laptop with a wireless keyboard and mouse.

<Bill>

Skybuck Flying wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What I am mostly concerned about is a wireless router + wireless
> support in a laptop.
>
> Now perhaps I could make a cable from the basement to the ground
> floor but I am not sure if my mother wants a cable running through
> her hallway...
> Currently the internet cable goes through a plastic pipe up the attic
> and back down again into the "computer room", which is upstairs. My
> mum doesn't want to go up the stairs anymore just to view the e-mail
> or internet which is understandable...
>
> So I/we were thinking about using a wireless router for now, until
> maybe I can sort out if a cable option is possible... perhaps
> drilling more holes... which might be nice for future as cable will
> probably offer higher and more reliable speed without health
> dangers... I estimate my mother might have at least 10 year to live
> and probably 20 years max... so that's a long time... I hope so... :)
>
> So the question is:
>
> What wireless router can go through 40 centimeters of though concrete
> ?!?!? (plus a bit of wood, glue and perhaps plastics).
>
> Currently Wireless N seems to be all the rage... but I would like it
> to support Wireless G as well in case anybody else comes there and
> wants to use internet as well...
>
> I have seen some router reviews and user comments but none so far are
> statisfieing to them or me... (I am just starting to look into this
> though... )

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 11:06:17 -0800 (PST), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

>Skybuck specifically said he wanted a router that could go through
>wood.

The Subject line says concrete, but I suspect that there are those
that have trouble recognizing the difference.
<http://www.google.com/images?q=wood+grain+concrete>

>I know Sears, Black & Decker, Dewalt, and Ryobi make several good
>ones....

That's just step one.  Please suggest that he install a passive
repeater on both sides of the hole.  That's where you mount an antenna
on each side of the wall, with a coax cable in between.  It's suppose
to pass RF through the wall via the coax.  Something like this:
<http://www.tntdiscount.info/passive_rep.php>
The reason I want you to suggest it is so I have an excuse to
calculate and explain (again) why it's generally a lousy idea.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message 
news:l6shh6ld4tl29cl910tlsbjo3p135vtue5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 11:06:17 -0800 (PST), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Skybuck specifically said he wanted a router that could go through
>>wood.
>
> The Subject line says concrete, but I suspect that there are those
> that have trouble recognizing the difference.
> <http://www.google.com/images?q=wood+grain+concrete>
>
>>I know Sears, Black & Decker, Dewalt, and Ryobi make several good
>>ones....
>
> That's just step one.  Please suggest that he install a passive
> repeater on both sides of the hole.  That's where you mount an antenna
> on each side of the wall, with a coax cable in between.  It's suppose
> to pass RF through the wall via the coax.  Something like this:
> <http://www.tntdiscount.info/passive_rep.php>
> The reason I want you to suggest it is so I have an excuse to
> calculate and explain (again) why it's generally a lousy idea.
>
> -- 
> Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

actually i read it as BOTH (wood AND concrete, sounds like wood on 
concrete....)
> Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at
> least:
> 2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of
> hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which
> means metal bars could be running through it... 

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:26:38 -0500, "Peter Pan" <PeterPan@NOSPAMMarcAlan.Info>
wrote:

>
>"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message 
>news:l6shh6ld4tl29cl910tlsbjo3p135vtue5@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 11:06:17 -0800 (PST), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Skybuck specifically said he wanted a router that could go through
>>>wood.
>>
>> The Subject line says concrete, but I suspect that there are those
>> that have trouble recognizing the difference.
>> <http://www.google.com/images?q=wood+grain+concrete>
>>
>>>I know Sears, Black & Decker, Dewalt, and Ryobi make several good
>>>ones....
>>
>> That's just step one.  Please suggest that he install a passive
>> repeater on both sides of the hole.  That's where you mount an antenna
>> on each side of the wall, with a coax cable in between.  It's suppose
>> to pass RF through the wall via the coax.  Something like this:
>> <http://www.tntdiscount.info/passive_rep.php>
>> The reason I want you to suggest it is so I have an excuse to
>> calculate and explain (again) why it's generally a lousy idea.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
>
>actually i read it as BOTH (wood AND concrete, sounds like wood on 
>concrete....)

He wanted to go through his head?  How about a .357?

>> Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at
>> least:
>> 2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of
>> hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which
>> means metal bars could be running through it... 
>

> >I know Sears, Black & Decker, Dewalt, and Ryobi make several good
> >ones....
>
> That's just step one. =A0Please suggest...

Should we tell Skybuck to put a fan on the LAN cable so it doesn't
overheat?

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:20:21 -0800 (PST), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

>> >I know Sears, Black & Decker, Dewalt, and Ryobi make several good
>> >ones....
>>
>> That's just step one. �Please suggest...
>
>Should we tell Skybuck to put a fan on the LAN cable so it doesn't
>overheat?

No.  I don't think Mr Starbuck has any fans or supporters.

I still like the passive repeater through the wall idea.  That's not
because it won't work, but because the similarity between the old two
tin cans and a string is so cool.  With two coffee cantennas and some
coax, it's much the same, except it's for wi-fi.

I suppose it would be useful to remind Mr Skybuck that buying a
computah for a friend or relative also enlists Mr Skybuck as tech
support and rescue service for the life of the product.  It's the last
of the truly unlimited warranties.  Never sell a used car or computah
to a friend is good advice.



-- 
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com               jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com               AE6KS

I had to play "tron evolution" so it was postponed until today ;) :)

It's now morning and maybe we go take a looksy today ;)

It's a good thing too.. because now I am pretty sure that intel core i5 is 
probably better choice than amd phenom II... because intel core i5 has sse 
4.1 and sse 4.2 which has some interesting new instructions as well.

Though perhaps the website I saw was a lie... perhaps intel core i5 only 
supports 4.1 ???

Hmm...

Bye,
  Skybuck. 

What does the warden have to say about your drilling holes in the walls of
your cell?

-- 
Paul Hovnanian  paul@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

Went with mammie yesterday:

1. Mammie liked expensive sony laptop with superior non glossy LCD screen, 
laptop costed 1700 euro's ! ouch... way to advenced for her but ok.

2. Mammie also liked other sony laptop which was more cheap 800 euro, had 
glossy screen.

3. Mammie also liked All-In-One Monitor+PC build into one. Her only fear was 
that it would fall over... well seen by mammie. Regular monitors are more 
stable in that way.

4. Mammie also saw ipad and me too, funny little device. But too tiny and no 
keyboard, though could be bought seperatly but a bit stupid... I am 
wondering what it would be like an ipad in bed ;) :) Maybe I would get 
extremely lazy and stay in bed all the time lol.

5. I also saw belkin internet-via-powerline device, but a quick google 
learned that it could produce radio frequencies/interference... from a 
user's comment... hmm.

6. Netgear 3700 router was sold out, netgear 2000 router was available.

All devices have wireless.

All devices were pretty recent processor and graphics wise... dual core duo 
tot icore5 and icore7 (the expensive sony), athlon x2 260 or something.

Mammie now has to think what she will get... she seems to be wanting a 
laptop.

If she does by one it will probably be the number 2... sony.

She also extremely liked a sort of docking station for the sony... it's not 
a docking station... but some kind of thing that can be placed under the 
sony to elevate the laptop it also has speakers which sound much better... 
unfortunately it was only available in white... and unfortunately the laptop 
that she wanted was also sold out or not in stock yet... kinda funny since 
all other laptops where in stock, (she had no idea about that up front).

Personal notes:

I'm getting some cool looking glasses, but I also had a second little heart 
attack, which I will probably go see the doctor soon... I am still rather 
young... but I don't know how much longer I will be around ! ;) :)

So maybe this will be one of my last messages and you will never know what 
it ultimately became or whatever... but I hope not... I hope I will be 
around here for much longer... fingers crossed.

Bye,
  Skybuck. 

Skybuck Flying schreef :
> Hello,
>
> Chrismast dinner is in the stomach or shitted out and ofcourse we chatted, my 
> mother and I... and things are about to get serious because I offered my 
> mammie to take her to an electronics/computer store on tuesday which is 
> tomorrow... so it's a bit short notice but I think it's ok, if we can't 
> decide then we will postpone me thinks ! ;) :)
>
> Currently I am looking into options and the latest and greatest laptop 
> processor seems to be either an intel icore 5 or amd phentom II  (I am bit 
> suspicious of these processors since one laptop with an icore5 was turned off 
> when I visitted the store while all others where on (went to buy a shaver))
>
> Where they trying to save it ? Save power ? Save electricity ? Was there 
> something wrong with it... I don't know..
>
> What I do know is:
>
> The processor should be 64 bit and have windows 7 in 64 bit coming with it, 
> because that's the pretty near future... so no 32 bit operating system for my 
> mother... 32 bit is dead and won't be supported for much longer by Microsoft. 
> So that's for certain.
>
> I would prefer the phentom II because it has sse 4a which I consider to be 
> more important for general purpose compression... but maybe sse 4.1a from 
> intel is also kinda nice for video. So I am still a bit in a doubt about 
> that.
>
> What I am mostly concerned about is a wireless router + wireless support in a 
> laptop.
>
> Now perhaps I could make a cable from the basement to the ground floor but I 
> am not sure if my mother wants a cable running through her hallway...
>
> Currently the internet cable goes through a plastic pipe up the attic and 
> back down again into the "computer room", which is upstairs. My mum doesn't 
> want to go up the stairs anymore just to view the e-mail or internet which is 
> understandable...
>
> So I/we were thinking about using a wireless router for now, until maybe I 
> can sort out if a cable option is possible... perhaps drilling more holes... 
> which might be nice for future as cable will probably offer higher and more 
> reliable speed without health dangers... I estimate my mother might have at 
> least 10 year to live and probably 20 years max... so that's a long time... I 
> hope so... :)
>
> I do want her to experience better computing especially screen-wise, so 
> perhaps laptop not the best choice... but a big clunky computer in the living 
> room ain't her style.
>
> Anyway this means the wireless signal will have to travel through at least:
> 2 centimeter of wood or so, 1 centimeter of glue, 20 to 40 centimeters of 
> hard concreet. Perhaps the concreet is even "re-inforced concreet" which 
> means metal bars could be running through it... but probably not... those 
> only in the basement.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What wireless router can go through 40 centimeters of though concrete ?!?!? 
> (plus a bit of wood, glue and perhaps plastics).
>
> Currently Wireless N seems to be all the rage... but I would like it to 
> support Wireless G as well in case anybody else comes there and wants to use 
> internet as well...
>
> I have seen some router reviews and user comments but none so far are 
> statisfieing to them or me... (I am just starting to look into this though... 
> )
>
> Bye,
>   Skybuck.

En toch is dit een NL groep !

Zeeg'n in 't neie joar !

-- 
De bearenburch is myn sjirurch

Grouten oet Grunnen