Calculating length of a wire product

Take a U-shaped wire, bent from 10 mm O.D. stainless steel. You model it as a swept extrusion or a pipe (solid) and when finished, you calculate the required length to cut from your stock material, either by doing the geometry math yourself or by creating an evalute feature. Either way you end up with the same answer, 3 straight lengths and 2 quarter circles. If you model the same part but now as a square (10x10 mm) section and then declare it as a sheetmetal part you can get the required length by using a flat pattern feature. When a sheet metal part is bent, it stretches and therefore, which ProE recognizes, the total length required is less than the "geometrical answer" above. Its obvious that in reality, the wire stretches when bent just like a strip of sheeet metal and that therefore the second smaller answer is correct. Now, does anybody know a way of getting a "flat pattern" answer without having to redo the part in square form. This redo can get complicated if there are more bends to the wire that are not all in the same plane. Bertil

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CA7B73.0FF59A50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Bertil Rogmark" <bertil@rogmark.com> wrote in message = news:cxJUm.13556$U5.202069@newsb.telia.net... Take a U-shaped wire, bent from 10 mm O.D. stainless steel. You model it as a swept extrusion or a pipe (solid) and when finished, you calculate the required length to cut from your stock material, = either by doing the geometry math yourself or by creating an evalute feature. Either way you end up with the same answer, 3 straight lengths and 2 = quarter=20 circles. If you model the same part but now as a square (10x10 mm) section and = then=20 declare it as a sheetmetal part you can get the required length by using a flat = pattern=20 feature. When a sheet metal part is bent, it stretches and therefore, which = ProE=20 recognizes, the total length required is less than the "geometrical answer" above. Its obvious that in reality, the wire stretches when bent just like a = strip=20 of sheeet metal and that therefore the second smaller answer is correct. Now, does anybody know a way of getting a "flat pattern" answer = without=20 having to redo the part in square form. This redo can get complicated if there are more bends = to the=20 wire that are not all in the same plane. Bertil=20 I would say that you use the K factor as do the sheetmetal guys, for = example http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm While Pro/e does it = automatically based on bend tables and K factors built into material = properties, there's no reason you can't do the same with hand calcs. You = just have to find out what the K factor is for the particular metal that = you are bending. This may also be of some help: = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal) As this makes clear, = bend tables adjust for other factors, such as stock thickness and bend = radius. Most are discovered and verified in practice. David Janes ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CA7B73.0FF59A50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18865"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>"Bertil Rogmark" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:bertil@rogmark.com">bertil@rogmark.com</A>> wrote in = message=20 <A=20 = href=3D"news:cxJUm.13556$U5.202069@newsb.telia.net">news:cxJUm.13556$U5.2= 02069@newsb.telia.net</A>...</DIV>Take=20 a U-shaped wire, bent from 10 mm O.D. stainless steel.<BR>You model it = as a=20 swept extrusion or a pipe (solid) and when finished,<BR>you calculate = the=20 required length to cut from your stock material, either<BR>by doing = the=20 geometry math yourself or by creating an evalute feature.<BR>Either = way you=20 end up with the same answer, 3 straight lengths and 2 quarter=20 <BR>circles.<BR><BR>If you model the same part but now as a square = (10x10 mm)=20 section and then <BR>declare it as<BR>a sheetmetal part you can get = the=20 required length by using a flat pattern <BR>feature.<BR>When a sheet = metal=20 part is bent, it stretches and therefore, which ProE <BR>recognizes, = the=20 total<BR>length required is less than the "geometrical answer" = above.<BR>Its=20 obvious that in reality, the wire stretches when bent just like a = strip <BR>of=20 sheeet metal and that<BR>therefore the second smaller answer is=20 correct.<BR><BR>Now, does anybody know a way of getting a "flat = pattern"=20 answer without <BR>having to redo the part<BR>in square form. This = redo can=20 get complicated if there are more bends to the <BR>wire that are not = all in=20 the same<BR>plane.<BR><BR>Bertil <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I would say that you use the K factor as do the sheetmetal guys, = for=20 example</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><A=20 href=3D"http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm">http://www.sheet= metalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm</A> =20 While Pro/e does it automatically based on bend tables and K factors = built into=20 material properties, there's no reason you can't do the same with hand = calcs.=20 </FONT><FONT face=3DArial>You just have to find out what the K factor is = for the=20 particular metal that you are bending. This may also be of some help: <A = href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal">http://en.wik= ipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal</A>)=20 As this makes clear, bend tables adjust for other factors, such as stock = thickness and bend radius. Most are discovered and verified in=20 practice.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>David Janes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CA7B73.0FF59A50--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CA7C47.19AA3DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your help David, I have done a lot of work with sheet metal bending, long before computer = software gave us a solution straight from the modeled part. I was hoping to be able to use the sheet metal functionality on wire = products but I guess I have to go back to do the calculating myself. By the way, do you know a ProE forum where lunatics like this guy Joe788 = are not allowed to go on like he is doing here? Bertil "Janes" <djanes@cox.net> skrev i meddelandet = news:Q6%Um.43602$cX4.15270@newsfe10.iad... "Bertil Rogmark" <bertil@rogmark.com> wrote in message = news:cxJUm.13556$U5.202069@newsb.telia.net... Take a U-shaped wire, bent from 10 mm O.D. stainless steel. You model it as a swept extrusion or a pipe (solid) and when = finished, you calculate the required length to cut from your stock material, = either by doing the geometry math yourself or by creating an evalute = feature. Either way you end up with the same answer, 3 straight lengths and 2 = quarter=20 circles. If you model the same part but now as a square (10x10 mm) section = and then=20 declare it as a sheetmetal part you can get the required length by using a flat = pattern=20 feature. When a sheet metal part is bent, it stretches and therefore, which = ProE=20 recognizes, the total length required is less than the "geometrical answer" above. Its obvious that in reality, the wire stretches when bent just like = a strip=20 of sheeet metal and that therefore the second smaller answer is correct. Now, does anybody know a way of getting a "flat pattern" answer = without=20 having to redo the part in square form. This redo can get complicated if there are more = bends to the=20 wire that are not all in the same plane. Bertil=20 I would say that you use the K factor as do the sheetmetal guys, for = example http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm While Pro/e does it = automatically based on bend tables and K factors built into material = properties, there's no reason you can't do the same with hand calcs. You = just have to find out what the K factor is for the particular metal that = you are bending. This may also be of some help: = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal) As this makes clear, = bend tables adjust for other factors, such as stock thickness and bend = radius. Most are discovered and verified in practice. David Janes ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CA7C47.19AA3DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18854"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Thank you for your help = David,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I have done a lot of work with sheet = metal bending,=20 long before computer software gave us a solution straight from the = modeled=20 part.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I was hoping to be able to use the = sheet metal=20 functionality on wire products but I guess I have to go back to do the=20 calculating myself.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>By the way, do you know a ProE forum = where lunatics=20 like this guy Joe788 are not allowed to go on like he is doing=20 here?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Bertil</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 dir=3Dltr> <DIV>"Janes" <<A = href=3D"mailto:djanes@cox.net">djanes@cox.net</A>> skrev=20 i meddelandet <A=20 = href=3D"news:Q6%Um.43602$cX4.15270@newsfe10.iad">news:Q6%Um.43602$cX4.152= 70@newsfe10.iad</A>...</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>"Bertil Rogmark" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:bertil@rogmark.com">bertil@rogmark.com</A>> wrote = in message=20 <A=20 = href=3D"news:cxJUm.13556$U5.202069@newsb.telia.net">news:cxJUm.13556$U5.2= 02069@newsb.telia.net</A>...</DIV>Take=20 a U-shaped wire, bent from 10 mm O.D. stainless steel.<BR>You model = it as a=20 swept extrusion or a pipe (solid) and when finished,<BR>you = calculate the=20 required length to cut from your stock material, either<BR>by doing = the=20 geometry math yourself or by creating an evalute feature.<BR>Either = way you=20 end up with the same answer, 3 straight lengths and 2 quarter=20 <BR>circles.<BR><BR>If you model the same part but now as a square = (10x10=20 mm) section and then <BR>declare it as<BR>a sheetmetal part you can = get the=20 required length by using a flat pattern <BR>feature.<BR>When a sheet = metal=20 part is bent, it stretches and therefore, which ProE <BR>recognizes, = the=20 total<BR>length required is less than the "geometrical answer" = above.<BR>Its=20 obvious that in reality, the wire stretches when bent just like a = strip=20 <BR>of sheeet metal and that<BR>therefore the second smaller answer = is=20 correct.<BR><BR>Now, does anybody know a way of getting a "flat = pattern"=20 answer without <BR>having to redo the part<BR>in square form. This = redo can=20 get complicated if there are more bends to the <BR>wire that are not = all in=20 the same<BR>plane.<BR><BR>Bertil <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I would say that you use the K factor as do the sheetmetal guys, = for=20 example</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm">http://www.sheet= metalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm</A> =20 While Pro/e does it automatically based on bend tables and K factors = built=20 into material properties, there's no reason you can't do the same with = hand=20 calcs. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial>You just have to find out what the K = factor is=20 for the particular metal that you are bending. This may also be of = some help:=20 <A=20 = href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal">http://en.wik= ipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal</A>)=20 As this makes clear, bend tables adjust for other factors, such as = stock=20 thickness and bend radius. Most are discovered and verified in=20 practice.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>David Janes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CA7C47.19AA3DB0--

I just killfiled him. No more stupidity. Dave Bertil Rogmark wrote: > Thank you for your help David, > I have done a lot of work with sheet metal bending, long before computer > software gave us a solution straight from the modeled part. > I was hoping to be able to use the sheet metal functionality on wire > products but I guess I have to go back to do the calculating myself. > By the way, do you know a ProE forum where lunatics like this guy Joe788 > are not allowed to go on like he is doing here? > > Bertil > > "Janes" <djanes@cox.net <mailto:djanes@cox.net>> skrev i meddelandet > news:Q6%Um.43602$cX4.15270@newsfe10.iad... > > "Bertil Rogmark" <bertil@rogmark.com > <mailto:bertil@rogmark.com>> wrote in message > news:cxJUm.13556$U5.202069@newsb.telia.net... > Take a U-shaped wire, bent from 10 mm O.D. stainless steel. > You model it as a swept extrusion or a pipe (solid) and when > finished, > you calculate the required length to cut from your stock > material, either > by doing the geometry math yourself or by creating an evalute > feature. > Either way you end up with the same answer, 3 straight lengths > and 2 quarter > circles. > > If you model the same part but now as a square (10x10 mm) > section and then > declare it as > a sheetmetal part you can get the required length by using a > flat pattern > feature. > When a sheet metal part is bent, it stretches and therefore, > which ProE > recognizes, the total > length required is less than the "geometrical answer" above. > Its obvious that in reality, the wire stretches when bent just > like a strip > of sheeet metal and that > therefore the second smaller answer is correct. > > Now, does anybody know a way of getting a "flat pattern" answer > without > having to redo the part > in square form. This redo can get complicated if there are more > bends to the > wire that are not all in the same > plane. > > Bertil > > I would say that you use the K factor as do the sheetmetal guys, for > example > http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/bend-allowance.htm While Pro/e does it > automatically based on bend tables and K factors built into material > properties, there's no reason you can't do the same with hand calcs. > You just have to find out what the K factor is for the particular > metal that you are bending. This may also be of some help: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-factor_(sheet_metal) As this makes > clear, bend tables adjust for other factors, such as stock thickness > and bend radius. Most are discovered and verified in practice. > > David Janes > >

On Dec 13, 2:41=A0pm, David Geesaman <dgeesamanNOS...@yahooooo.com> wrote: > I just killfiled him. =A0No more stupidity. > > Dave > How does one "killfile" a poster (I assume this results in you not being forwarded anything by them any more?) ? I am poking around the google group site here and not seeing a switch that looks like that... So tired of sifting through all this yelling John Banquer chaff to get the good bits of advice out Thx Magnus

Lehnsherr wrote: > On Dec 13, 2:41 pm, David Geesaman <dgeesamanNOS...@yahooooo.com> > wrote: >> I just killfiled him. No more stupidity. >> >> Dave >> > > How does one "killfile" a poster (I assume this results in you not > being forwarded anything by them any more?) ? > I am poking around the google group site here and not seeing a switch > that looks like that... > > So tired of sifting through all this yelling John Banquer chaff to get > the good bits of advice out > > Thx > > Magnus Killfile is a generic term meaning use whatever filter your newsreader has to delete the garbage posts. JB is very easy because he posts under the same user name (newsreader softwares still aren't sharp enough to filter based on the stupidity of the content) I'm using Mozilla Thunderbird and it's pretty easy to set up a Filter to delete particular messages. I poked around google groups and found no such features. However, I did flag all of JB's threads as spam, so if others do the same maybe we can collectively vote the threads into oblivion or something. :) David

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7/27/2012 7:13:54 PM