I recommended this place to a customer new to Solidworks for sage 
advise.
Guess I will have to wear egg on my face for a while. :-(

it's definitely not the same place as years gone by.

none the less, advise customer to filter the responses.
also advise no cross posting to amc.

;)

On Sep 12, 1:29 pm, pev...@tagaerospace.com (Phil Evans) wrote:
> I recommended this place to a customer new to Solidworks for sage
> advise.
> Guess I will have to wear egg on my face for a while. :-(

Only if he lives in some sort of sheltered world and has no sense of
humor.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/07/spend-a-littleo.html#comment-76366100

kenneth wrote:
> it's definitely not the same place as years gone by.
> 
> none the less, advise customer to filter the responses.
> also advise no cross posting to amc.
> 
> ;)
> 
> 
> 
You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but 
not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in 
my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful 
info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!

> You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but
> not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in
> my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful
> info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!


So why not post more on topic stuff, Bruce and start solving the
problem. Here are just some subjects that come to mind that could be
better covered in this newsgroup:

SolidWorks Mold Tools... are they any good / good enough?

Cut Lists for Sub Weldments... what needs to be fixed?

SolidWorks Surface Tools... what surface tools should be added?

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/07/spend-a-littleo.html#comment-76366100

In article <Q74Gi.115426$dI1.8977@newsfe08.phx>, brucebr1@cox.net 
says...
> kenneth wrote:
> > it's definitely not the same place as years gone by.
> > st
> > none the less, advise customer to filter the responses.
> > also advise no cross posting to amc.
> > 
> > ;)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but 
> not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in 
> my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful 
> info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!
> 
There's still a lot of good info here, but my fear is that the really 
skilled and helpful folk will go away, disgusted with the noise level. I 
recently posted on the effectiveness of my newsreader filters in 
reducing the noise. By filtering the bozos, replies to them and a.m.c 
crossposts, more than 60% of total posts disappeared. I'm also becoming 
much less tolerant of drivel and more ready to use the killfile on 
emergent bozos.

AW

"jon_banquer" <jon_banquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1189668617.036746.182070@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>> You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but
>> not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in
>> my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful
>> info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!
>
>
> So why not post more on topic stuff, Bruce and start solving the
> problem. Here are just some subjects that come to mind that could be
> better covered in this newsgroup:
>
> SolidWorks Mold Tools... are they any good / good enough?
>
> Cut Lists for Sub Weldments... what needs to be fixed?
>
> SolidWorks Surface Tools... what surface tools should be added?

 Here's one they might be able to add...
When you extrude up to surface, you can only pick one surface. But if you 
select all the faces in the area and make a knit surface, now you can 
extrude up to surface and pick that knit.
  But if it actually extruded up to "ALL" the surfaces in the knit surface 
that would be the bomb as opposed to just extruding till it gets to the 
first surface it sees in the knit.
 So for me making electrodes, I could extrude up to my knit surface with the 
merge checkbox off creating an electrode in one click!

Who knows, It proberbly does it already if you know how? 

> You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but
> not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in
> my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful
> info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!

It is amazing that about four people, deciding that it would be a fun
hobby to ruin this newsgroup, actually can pull it off.

To them, it's nothing to step on the hundreds who used to be active
here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
I'm glad I got in early, before them.  This was a great resource, and
I wouldn't be as good at what I do if I did not have this resource
when I had it.

(shaking head) Just four or so posters with a pathetic hobby - and
apparently very little outside life - can and laregly have screwed it
up for all those others. And to add to the annoyance, based on the
backward rules of their hobby (trolling - do a google search to learn
more),  they think they are smart or superior for doing it.

Wrong.

You know what takes smarts?  Building stuff.  Contributing.  Making a
tough issue understandable to another.

Knocking others down for your jollies doesn't take any more skill than
a dipshit walking down the beach knocking down kids sandcastles.  It
is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.

The fact that they are succeeding at their stupid hobby doesn't mean
that they win, because they are losers down to their cores.

It will be interesting to see where I end up a year from now, because
they have apparently have endless time (unemployed?  No social life or
hobbies?) and I don't. Even solid a mountian will eventually erode
under a non-stop torrent.
But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
I am staying with it.

Ed

Edward T Eaton wrote:
> It is amazing that about four people, deciding that it would be a fun
> hobby to ruin this newsgroup, actually can pull it off.

So when do we call it dead? I get nostagic for all the good times we 
used to have here. Now we can't enjoy ourselves because of these selfish 
bastards that just want to use such fuckn foul language an insult other 
idiots. It's kinds sad, I think.

> To them, it's nothing to step on the hundreds who used to be active
> here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
> and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
> I'm glad I got in early, before them.  This was a great resource, and
> I wouldn't be as good at what I do if I did not have this resource
> when I had it.

You said it was magazines what made you like you are, 1701. You asid it 
was magazines! It was thig place all along? Ah, you dog, you had me going.

> (shaking head) 

how bout this ((((((0)))))))

> Just four or so posters with a pathetic hobby - and
> apparently very little outside life - can and laregly have screwed it
> up for all those others. And to add to the annoyance, based on the
> backward rules of their hobby (trolling - do a google search to learn
> more),  they think they are smart or superior for doing it.

Hoo are those four assholes? Lets get the moderator to boot them.

> 
> Wrong.

Right. I mean your right their worong. They think they are superior, but 
theyr more like Erie or something lower down. Okeechobee maybe. Plus, we 
all know (cuz you remind us all the time) that no one could be superior 
to you, so it's silly for them to think they supiror.

> 
> You know what takes smarts?  

Quoting marketing materials?

> Building stuff.  Contributing.  Making a
> tough issue understandable to another.

Aww, you knew the answer to that one too. My mother was a roofer and she 
was pretty smart. Wore a skirt whil roofing, but called it a kilt so the 
guys left her alone. No self respecting roofer would tilt a kilt, if you 
knwo what I mean.

> 
> Knocking others down for your jollies doesn't take any more skill than
> a dipshit walking down the beach knocking down kids sandcastles.  It
> is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.

Right, but that doesn't mean it isnt fun and otherwise worthwhile?

Plus, if your talking knocking down, not your run of the mill knocking 
down doesn't take so much smarts, but you can do it like its an art form 
(or is that fart mor or ant farm?) Anyway, it's liek on a higher level, 
you know.  About 4th grade insted of tird like your thinking. We have to 
use small word cuz fer JBs reading level. All of us cept PV who users 
words I don't get a lot.


> 
> The fact that they are succeeding at their stupid hobby doesn't mean
> that they win, because they are losers down to their cores.

Somebody is reading this you know. Somebody somewhere. Trolls have 
feelings too. Don't be mean. I hate bullies. My Ma used to say... yeah, 
sompin like that but I don't remember so good.

> 
> It will be interesting to see where I end up a year from now, because
> they have apparently have endless time (unemployed?  No social life or
> hobbies?) and I don't. 

No no, these lusers have hobbies. They like to rip on JB and BD and talk 
smack.  It might not be your whitebreadsuburbanmiddleclassslums kind of 
hobbies like trebuchets and shit, but the underclasses and minorities 
are still leginitmate living breaving beans.

> Even solid a mountian will eventually erode
> under a non-stop torrent.

Lysdexia kills careers every day. Especially in philosophy. Just doesn't 
have the same ring.


> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
> I am staying with it.

And you know, we really appreciate it. You are such an easy target, 
being all eggheaded and shit.

My mother used to say to me "Pat! Pat Shawn O'Brien of Lillicott 
Indiana! Yes, you there. Eat your beans, would ya hon?" And I never 
forgot it. But I changed my name as soon as I could.

Daisy.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sep 13, 9:42 pm, FlowerPot <Da...@flowerpot.org> wrote:
> Edward T Eaton wrote:
> > It is amazing that about four people, deciding that it would be a fun
> > hobby to ruin this newsgroup, actually can pull it off.
>
> So when do we call it dead? I get nostagic for all the good times we
> used to have here. Now we can't enjoy ourselves because of these selfish
> bastards that just want to use such fuckn foul language an insult other
> idiots. It's kinds sad, I think.
>
> > To them, it's nothing to step on the hundreds who used to be active
> > here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
> > and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
> > I'm glad I got in early, before them.  This was a great resource, and
> > I wouldn't be as good at what I do if I did not have this resource
> > when I had it.
>
> You said it was magazines what made you like you are, 1701. You asid it
> was magazines! It was thig place all along? Ah, you dog, you had me going.
>
> > (shaking head)
>
> how bout this ((((((0)))))))
>
> > Just four or so posters with a pathetic hobby - and
> > apparently very little outside life - can and laregly have screwed it
> > up for all those others. And to add to the annoyance, based on the
> > backward rules of their hobby (trolling - do a google search to learn
> > more),  they think they are smart or superior for doing it.
>
> Hoo are those four assholes? Lets get the moderator to boot them.
>
>
>
> > Wrong.
>
> Right. I mean your right their worong. They think they are superior, but
> theyr more like Erie or something lower down. Okeechobee maybe. Plus, we
> all know (cuz you remind us all the time) that no one could be superior
> to you, so it's silly for them to think they supiror.
>
>
>
> > You know what takes smarts?  
>
> Quoting marketing materials?
>
> > Building stuff.  Contributing.  Making a
> > tough issue understandable to another.
>
> Aww, you knew the answer to that one too. My mother was a roofer and she
> was pretty smart. Wore a skirt whil roofing, but called it a kilt so the
> guys left her alone. No self respecting roofer would tilt a kilt, if you
> knwo what I mean.
>
>
>
> > Knocking others down for your jollies doesn't take any more skill than
> > a dipshit walking down the beach knocking down kids sandcastles.  It
> > is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.
>
> Right, but that doesn't mean it isnt fun and otherwise worthwhile?
>
> Plus, if your talking knocking down, not your run of the mill knocking
> down doesn't take so much smarts, but you can do it like its an art form
> (or is that fart mor or ant farm?) Anyway, it's liek on a higher level,
> you know.  About 4th grade insted of tird like your thinking. We have to
> use small word cuz fer JBs reading level. All of us cept PV who users
> words I don't get a lot.
>
>
>
> > The fact that they are succeeding at their stupid hobby doesn't mean
> > that they win, because they are losers down to their cores.
>
> Somebody is reading this you know. Somebody somewhere. Trolls have
> feelings too. Don't be mean. I hate bullies. My Ma used to say... yeah,
> sompin like that but I don't remember so good.
>
>
>
> > It will be interesting to see where I end up a year from now, because
> > they have apparently have endless time (unemployed?  No social life or
> > hobbies?) and I don't.
>
> No no, these lusers have hobbies. They like to rip on JB and BD and talk
> smack.  It might not be your whitebreadsuburbanmiddleclassslums kind of
> hobbies like trebuchets and shit, but the underclasses and minorities
> are still leginitmate living breaving beans.
>
> > Even solid a mountian will eventually erode
> > under a non-stop torrent.
>
> Lysdexia kills careers every day. Especially in philosophy. Just doesn't
> have the same ring.
>
> > But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
> > them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
> > I am staying with it.
>
> And you know, we really appreciate it. You are such an easy target,
> being all eggheaded and shit.
>
> My mother used to say to me "Pat! Pat Shawn O'Brien of Lillicott
> Indiana! Yes, you there. Eat your beans, would ya hon?" And I never
> forgot it. But I changed my name as soon as I could.
>
> Daisy.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Sober up and try again tomorrow.
You have somehow managed to be extra-pathetic at your pathetic hobby.
When you aren't even good at being a troll... how low can you be.
Or maybe (ha ha, but just in case)... maybe you could turn your
energies towards talking about SolidWorks.  It's harder and takes more
brains.  Its a challenge that perhaps you could rise up to.
Ed

Edward T Eaton wrote:
> On Sep 13, 9:42 pm, FlowerPot <Da...@flowerpot.org> wrote:
>> Edward T Eaton wrote:
>>> It is amazing that about four people, deciding that it would be a fun
>>> hobby to ruin this newsgroup, actually can pull it off.
>> So when do we call it dead? I get nostagic for all the good times we
>> used to have here. Now we can't enjoy ourselves because of these selfish
>> bastards that just want to use such fuckn foul language an insult other
>> idiots. It's kinds sad, I think.
>>
>>> To them, it's nothing to step on the hundreds who used to be active
>>> here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
>>> and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
>>> I'm glad I got in early, before them.  This was a great resource, and
>>> I wouldn't be as good at what I do if I did not have this resource
>>> when I had it.
>> You said it was magazines what made you like you are, 1701. You asid it
>> was magazines! It was thig place all along? Ah, you dog, you had me going.
>>
>>> (shaking head)
>> how bout this ((((((0)))))))
>>
>>> Just four or so posters with a pathetic hobby - and
>>> apparently very little outside life - can and laregly have screwed it
>>> up for all those others. And to add to the annoyance, based on the
>>> backward rules of their hobby (trolling - do a google search to learn
>>> more),  they think they are smart or superior for doing it.
>> Hoo are those four assholes? Lets get the moderator to boot them.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Wrong.
>> Right. I mean your right their worong. They think they are superior, but
>> theyr more like Erie or something lower down. Okeechobee maybe. Plus, we
>> all know (cuz you remind us all the time) that no one could be superior
>> to you, so it's silly for them to think they supiror.
>>
>>
>>
>>> You know what takes smarts?  
>> Quoting marketing materials?
>>
>>> Building stuff.  Contributing.  Making a
>>> tough issue understandable to another.
>> Aww, you knew the answer to that one too. My mother was a roofer and she
>> was pretty smart. Wore a skirt whil roofing, but called it a kilt so the
>> guys left her alone. No self respecting roofer would tilt a kilt, if you
>> knwo what I mean.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Knocking others down for your jollies doesn't take any more skill than
>>> a dipshit walking down the beach knocking down kids sandcastles.  It
>>> is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.
>> Right, but that doesn't mean it isnt fun and otherwise worthwhile?
>>
>> Plus, if your talking knocking down, not your run of the mill knocking
>> down doesn't take so much smarts, but you can do it like its an art form
>> (or is that fart mor or ant farm?) Anyway, it's liek on a higher level,
>> you know.  About 4th grade insted of tird like your thinking. We have to
>> use small word cuz fer JBs reading level. All of us cept PV who users
>> words I don't get a lot.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The fact that they are succeeding at their stupid hobby doesn't mean
>>> that they win, because they are losers down to their cores.
>> Somebody is reading this you know. Somebody somewhere. Trolls have
>> feelings too. Don't be mean. I hate bullies. My Ma used to say... yeah,
>> sompin like that but I don't remember so good.
>>
>>
>>
>>> It will be interesting to see where I end up a year from now, because
>>> they have apparently have endless time (unemployed?  No social life or
>>> hobbies?) and I don't.
>> No no, these lusers have hobbies. They like to rip on JB and BD and talk
>> smack.  It might not be your whitebreadsuburbanmiddleclassslums kind of
>> hobbies like trebuchets and shit, but the underclasses and minorities
>> are still leginitmate living breaving beans.
>>
>>> Even solid a mountian will eventually erode
>>> under a non-stop torrent.
>> Lysdexia kills careers every day. Especially in philosophy. Just doesn't
>> have the same ring.
>>
>>> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
>>> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
>>> I am staying with it.
>> And you know, we really appreciate it. You are such an easy target,
>> being all eggheaded and shit.
>>
>> My mother used to say to me "Pat! Pat Shawn O'Brien of Lillicott
>> Indiana! Yes, you there. Eat your beans, would ya hon?" And I never
>> forgot it. But I changed my name as soon as I could.
>>
>> Daisy.
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
> 
> Sober up and try again tomorrow.
> You have somehow managed to be extra-pathetic at your pathetic hobby.
> When you aren't even good at being a troll... how low can you be.
> Or maybe (ha ha, but just in case)... maybe you could turn your
> energies towards talking about SolidWorks.  It's harder and takes more
> brains.  Its a challenge that perhaps you could rise up to.
> Ed
> 

Now youre breaking the rules. I really don't care too much if you are 
entertained, it makes me laugh. Talking to the trolls = feeding the 
trolls. It lends legitimacy, which I don't think you really want to do.

Who says I'm a troll anyway? Maybe I'm just a wingnut. (go and look that 
one up, egghead)

You want me to talk about SW? But I have been, my dear 1701. I just 
can't get JB to respond about the software. I keep trying to talk about 
features and stuff, but JB refuses. I'm of course on your side. I've 
been trying to get JB on topic all this time. I talk about multiple 
context, flex, deform, shape, all good wholesome stuff. I have a model 
that is just made of deform features. I started by deforming the origin, 
and stretched it into a line, then flexed it into a circle. and revolved 
it into a donut. Now my origin is much easier to see.

But I used the wrong units, so I'm gonna try again next week, I think.

What soldiworks related topic would you like to talk about, Mr. 1701?

Dusty.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

>
> Now youre breaking the rules. I really don't care too much if you are
> entertained, it makes me laugh. Talking to the trolls = feeding the
> trolls. It lends legitimacy, which I don't think you really want to do.

Still weak.  Your first paragraph conflicts with your second.
If you have a hobby (even a pathetic, pathetic hobby) you might as
well be good at it.  You aren't even good at it.

When you dust off your intellect (what is left after all the
alcoholism, based on the fact that your posts tend to get sloppy after-
hours) and start to respond to people's questions about SWx in a
helpful manner, I will be happy to talk to you.  Until then, I will
just pity you.  Sad Freak
Ed

Edward T Eaton wrote:
>> Now youre breaking the rules. I really don't care too much if you are
>> entertained, it makes me laugh. Talking to the trolls = feeding the
>> trolls. It lends legitimacy, which I don't think you really want to do.
> 
> Still weak.  Your first paragraph conflicts with your second.
> If you have a hobby (even a pathetic, pathetic hobby) you might as
> well be good at it.  You aren't even good at it.
> 
> When you dust off your intellect (what is left after all the
> alcoholism, based on the fact that your posts tend to get sloppy after-
> hours) and start to respond to people's questions about SWx in a
> helpful manner, I will be happy to talk to you.  Until then, I will
> just pity you.  Sad Freak
> Ed
> 

Ok, have it your way. You coudl have made peace, but no, you want to 
continue the cycle of insanity. You could have asked me a question such 
as if I use click-click or click-drag, but you didn't. That might have 
been interesting. Why do people do things like that?

But instead you just kick down my sandcvastle, insult Dusty, why not. 
Your starting to sound like PV or whoever. I think 1701 is becoming the 
troll and Dusty is getting soft hearted. Look at 1701, uncharitable and 
name calling.

Ah, so you think I'm a lush? interesting. Mybe that's my hobby? One that 
I'm good at? Again, it makes me laugh.

Maybe mama took thallimide and I haven't recovered. I've filed suit 
against Dr, Spock. (not THAT spock, 1701, the baby instruction book spock.)

Where is JB, anyway? Is he still looking up multiple contexts in the help?

Dusty.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

PotFlower <PotFlower@Daisy.org> wrote in news:46e9fa5d$0$25455$88260bb3
@free.teranews.com:

> I think.

Feel free to start doing it before you post in AMC.

-- 

Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>

"PotFlower" <PotFlower@Daisy.org> a �crit dans le message de news: 
46ea04c0$0$28879$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...

Another plonk down the toilet. Changing names (as JB does) will not keep you 
out of where you belong. 

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:05:58 -0400, Art Woodbury <nospam@munged_address.com>
wrote:

>There's still a lot of good info here, but my fear is that the really 
>skilled and helpful folk will go away, disgusted with the noise level. I 
>recently posted on the effectiveness of my newsreader filters in 
>reducing the noise. By filtering the bozos, replies to them and a.m.c 
>crossposts, more than 60% of total posts disappeared. I'm also becoming 
>much less tolerant of drivel and more ready to use the killfile on 
>emergent bozos.

  In some cases some of the better stuff is in replies to what
started of as off-topic responses to a probem.
  Things can drift to "broader" matters at times rather
than focus in a directed manner on one person's specific
single question or problem.
  I'll admit though that this is a bit unlikely with responses
to poor clueless who grasps so very little no matter what
(but does serve as the butt for much humor).
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:37:02 -0700, Edward T Eaton <ed1701@juno.com> wrote:

>It is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.

  Ever consider the conditions under which jb leaves
in a huff & it gets back to normal?
  Promote those conditions.
  "Put up or shut up" sometimes works wonders with
idiot too.

  And, do you REALLY want those 
[
......  the hundreds who used to be active
here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
] to be so badly misinformed by jb? If nobody speaks up when he pulls
some idiocy & floods more clueless BS  ... 
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:42:23 -0400, FlowerPot <Daisy@flowerpot.org> wrote:

>They think they are superior, but 
>theyr more like Erie or something lower down. Okeechobee maybe.

[
 Two Reasons Why It's So Hard To Solve A Redneck Murder
 
 1. All the DNA is the same.
 2. There are no dental records.
]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:42:23 -0400, FlowerPot <Daisy@flowerpot.org> wrote:

>Anyway, it's liek on a higher level, 
>you know.  About 4th grade insted of tird like your thinking. We have to 
>use small word cuz fer JBs reading level.

  Ask him about his claimed "GED" & why he has no basic 
math or trig skills ....
  And ask him about Driver's Education too .. how many
times has he had to take it & did he ever pass?
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:33:37 -0700, Edward T Eaton <ed1701@juno.com> wrote:

>When you aren't even good at being a troll...

  Are you trying to attract the really good ones?
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:56:13 -0400, PotFlower <PotFlower@Daisy.org> wrote:

>Maybe I'm just a wingnut.

  "Why Winger brains ..."

  http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/11/0215210
[
"Scientists from NYU and UCLA report in Nature Neuroscience that the brains of
Democrats and Republicans process information differently. This new study finds
that the differences are apparent even when the brain processes common
information, not just political topics. From the study, liberals were more
likely to be accurate and showed more brain activity in the region associated
with analyzing conflicts. A researcher not affiliated with the study stated,
liberals 'could be expected to more readily accept new social, scientific or
religious ideas.' Moreover, 'the results could explain why President Bush
demonstrated a single-minded commitment to the Iraq war and why some people
perceived Sen. John F. Kerry... as a flip-flopper.'"
]

  "Hard-Wired Right"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erika-schickel/one-of-these-things-is-no_b_64019.html
[
Both groups recognized the letter "M" accurately. But when that pesky "W" popped
up the conservatives just couldn't help themselves and -- DOH! -- they pushed
the key! They simply could not recognize any letter not being "M." They
continued to dogmatically stab away at the keyboard not seeing the letter so
plainly in front of them. Everyone, of course, was hooked up to
electroencephalograms, and liberals EEG's lit up like pinball machines while
apprehending and considering all the subtle differences between "M" and "W."
They made fewer mistakes and demonstrated a greater subtlety of mind.
Conservatives, ever the partisans, just declared "W" was "M" and called it a
day.
.....
differences on a conservative-liberal dimension are strongly related to brain
activity." The Times reports that "liberals were 4.9 times as likely as
conservatives to show activity in the brain circuits that deal with conflicts,
and 2.2 times as likely to score in the top half of the distribution for
accuracy." Thus with one, simple experiment we have solved the mystery of how
half our nation fell for the 9/11/Sadaam Hussein boondoggle. 
]

  "Scientific Study Reveals That Conservatives Lack Brain Power"
  "Unable To Break Bad Habits, Correct Mistakes"
  http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/09/scientific_stud.html
[
Like others, I�ve always believed conservatives to be brain dead. Now science
tells us that it may be true.

In a series of studies the anterior cingulated cortex � that part of the brain
that steers normal people away from habitual behavior in the face of evidence of
new situations � doesn�t work well in those of a conservative bent.
]

  They are just very handicapped ...  (and not too bright).
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:37:59 -0400, "vinny" <friggenbozo@gawab.com> wrote:

>
>"jon_banquer" <jon_banquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>news:1189668617.036746.182070@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>> You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but
>>> not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in
>>> my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful
>>> info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!
>>
>>
>> So why not post more on topic stuff, Bruce and start solving the
>> problem. Here are just some subjects that come to mind that could be
>> better covered in this newsgroup:
>>
>> SolidWorks Mold Tools... are they any good / good enough?
>>
>> Cut Lists for Sub Weldments... what needs to be fixed?
>>
>> SolidWorks Surface Tools... what surface tools should be added?
>
> Here's one they might be able to add...
>When you extrude up to surface, you can only pick one surface. But if you 
>select all the faces in the area and make a knit surface, now you can 
>extrude up to surface and pick that knit.
>  But if it actually extruded up to "ALL" the surfaces in the knit surface 
>that would be the bomb as opposed to just extruding till it gets to the 
>first surface it sees in the knit.
> So for me making electrodes, I could extrude up to my knit surface with the 
>merge checkbox off creating an electrode in one click!
>
>Who knows, It proberbly does it already if you know how? 
>

  Clearly jb has no clues what that was about <VBG>.

  IIRC He was last looking for a 2 1/2 axes CAM program that 
could drill a few holes (hope not involving triangles).
-- 
Cliff

"Edward T Eaton" <ed1701@juno.com> wrote in message 
news:1189733822.232608.20450@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>> You as right as can be.  It used to be that you could get info here, but
>> not any more.  There is more drivel and stupidity than I've ever seen in
>> my life and I've been around for quite a while.  The amount of useful
>> info is probably somewhere around 5% of the total.  That's poor!!
>
> It is amazing that about four people, deciding that it would be a fun
> hobby to ruin this newsgroup, actually can pull it off.
>
> To them, it's nothing to step on the hundreds who used to be active
> here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
> and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
> I'm glad I got in early, before them.  This was a great resource, and
> I wouldn't be as good at what I do if I did not have this resource
> when I had it.
>
> (shaking head) Just four or so posters with a pathetic hobby - and
> apparently very little outside life - can and laregly have screwed it
> up for all those others. And to add to the annoyance, based on the
> backward rules of their hobby (trolling - do a google search to learn
> more),  they think they are smart or superior for doing it.
>
> Wrong.
>
> You know what takes smarts?  Building stuff.  Contributing.  Making a
> tough issue understandable to another.
>
> Knocking others down for your jollies doesn't take any more skill than
> a dipshit walking down the beach knocking down kids sandcastles.  It
> is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.
>
> The fact that they are succeeding at their stupid hobby doesn't mean
> that they win, because they are losers down to their cores.
>
> It will be interesting to see where I end up a year from now, because
> they have apparently have endless time (unemployed?  No social life or
> hobbies?) and I don't. Even solid a mountian will eventually erode
> under a non-stop torrent.
> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
> I am staying with it.
>
> Ed
>
Same thing applies to islamic extremists. A few trying to destroy it for the 
masses (who themselves are all too silent). Let's kick their asses too! 

"PotFlower" <PotFlower@Daisy.org> wrote in message 
news:46e9fa5d$0$25455$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> Edward T Eaton wrote:
>> On Sep 13, 9:42 pm, FlowerPot <Da...@flowerpot.org> wrote:
>>> Edward T Eaton wrote:
>>>> It is amazing that about four people, deciding that it would be a fun
>>>> hobby to ruin this newsgroup, actually can pull it off.
>>> So when do we call it dead? I get nostagic for all the good times we
>>> used to have here. Now we can't enjoy ourselves because of these selfish
>>> bastards that just want to use such fuckn foul language an insult other
>>> idiots. It's kinds sad, I think.
>>>
>>>> To them, it's nothing to step on the hundreds who used to be active
>>>> here (and the thousands who would lurk or search the group) to find
>>>> and discuss issues relating to learning better ways to do their jobs.
>>>> I'm glad I got in early, before them.  This was a great resource, and
>>>> I wouldn't be as good at what I do if I did not have this resource
>>>> when I had it.
>>> You said it was magazines what made you like you are, 1701. You asid it
>>> was magazines! It was thig place all along? Ah, you dog, you had me 
>>> going.
>>>
>>>> (shaking head)
>>> how bout this ((((((0)))))))
>>>
>>>> Just four or so posters with a pathetic hobby - and
>>>> apparently very little outside life - can and laregly have screwed it
>>>> up for all those others. And to add to the annoyance, based on the
>>>> backward rules of their hobby (trolling - do a google search to learn
>>>> more),  they think they are smart or superior for doing it.
>>> Hoo are those four assholes? Lets get the moderator to boot them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>> Right. I mean your right their worong. They think they are superior, but
>>> theyr more like Erie or something lower down. Okeechobee maybe. Plus, we
>>> all know (cuz you remind us all the time) that no one could be superior
>>> to you, so it's silly for them to think they supiror.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You know what takes smarts?
>>> Quoting marketing materials?
>>>
>>>> Building stuff.  Contributing.  Making a
>>>> tough issue understandable to another.
>>> Aww, you knew the answer to that one too. My mother was a roofer and she
>>> was pretty smart. Wore a skirt whil roofing, but called it a kilt so the
>>> guys left her alone. No self respecting roofer would tilt a kilt, if you
>>> knwo what I mean.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Knocking others down for your jollies doesn't take any more skill than
>>>> a dipshit walking down the beach knocking down kids sandcastles.  It
>>>> is inherentlly easy, lazy, and stupid.
>>> Right, but that doesn't mean it isnt fun and otherwise worthwhile?
>>>
>>> Plus, if your talking knocking down, not your run of the mill knocking
>>> down doesn't take so much smarts, but you can do it like its an art form
>>> (or is that fart mor or ant farm?) Anyway, it's liek on a higher level,
>>> you know.  About 4th grade insted of tird like your thinking. We have to
>>> use small word cuz fer JBs reading level. All of us cept PV who users
>>> words I don't get a lot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The fact that they are succeeding at their stupid hobby doesn't mean
>>>> that they win, because they are losers down to their cores.
>>> Somebody is reading this you know. Somebody somewhere. Trolls have
>>> feelings too. Don't be mean. I hate bullies. My Ma used to say... yeah,
>>> sompin like that but I don't remember so good.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It will be interesting to see where I end up a year from now, because
>>>> they have apparently have endless time (unemployed?  No social life or
>>>> hobbies?) and I don't.
>>> No no, these lusers have hobbies. They like to rip on JB and BD and talk
>>> smack.  It might not be your whitebreadsuburbanmiddleclassslums kind of
>>> hobbies like trebuchets and shit, but the underclasses and minorities
>>> are still leginitmate living breaving beans.
>>>
>>>> Even solid a mountian will eventually erode
>>>> under a non-stop torrent.
>>> Lysdexia kills careers every day. Especially in philosophy. Just doesn't
>>> have the same ring.
>>>
>>>> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
>>>> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
>>>> I am staying with it.
>>> And you know, we really appreciate it. You are such an easy target,
>>> being all eggheaded and shit.
>>>
>>> My mother used to say to me "Pat! Pat Shawn O'Brien of Lillicott
>>> Indiana! Yes, you there. Eat your beans, would ya hon?" And I never
>>> forgot it. But I changed my name as soon as I could.
>>>
>>> Daisy.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
>>
>> Sober up and try again tomorrow.
>> You have somehow managed to be extra-pathetic at your pathetic hobby.
>> When you aren't even good at being a troll... how low can you be.
>> Or maybe (ha ha, but just in case)... maybe you could turn your
>> energies towards talking about SolidWorks.  It's harder and takes more
>> brains.  Its a challenge that perhaps you could rise up to.
>> Ed
>>
>
> Now youre breaking the rules. I really don't care too much if you are 
> entertained, it makes me laugh. Talking to the trolls = feeding the 
> trolls. It lends legitimacy, which I don't think you really want to do.
>
> Who says I'm a troll anyway? Maybe I'm just a wingnut. (go and look that 
> one up, egghead)
>
> You want me to talk about SW? But I have been, my dear 1701. I just can't 
> get JB to respond about the software. I keep trying to talk about features 
> and stuff, but JB refuses. I'm of course on your side. I've been trying to 
> get JB on topic all this time. I talk about multiple context, flex, 
> deform, shape, all good wholesome stuff. I have a model that is just made 
> of deform features. I started by deforming the origin, and stretched it 
> into a line, then flexed it into a circle. and revolved it into a donut. 
> Now my origin is much easier to see.
>
> But I used the wrong units, so I'm gonna try again next week, I think.
>
> What soldiworks related topic would you like to talk about, Mr. 1701?

extracting electrodes from part models. 

> extracting electrodes from part models. 
> 
> 

Easy. Just copy surfaces with knit or offset, and extrude a solid up to 
the copied surface (with merge off). Youd want to get rid of the 
multibodies before sending it to a machinist because theyre as likely to 
get confused or machine it all as a single part or some such stupidity. 
Of course you have to make sure the model is scaled to account for 
shrink firts. And don't do it with configs, cuz machineists dont knwo 
fuck about configs, and given a choice of two will never ask, but will 
ALWAUS select the wrong one to machine.I always export to a dumb solid 
before sending anything to a mchineist.

Or you could just make a block representing the trode blank as a 
separate body, and subtract the main part from it.

The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a 3D 
orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit you would 
only offset the vertical faces. If it's just a loose and wobly 
connection, yer on yer own to tighten the fucker.

One cool tool is the Move Face which enables you to do in a solid what 
Offset Surface does for surfaces, purdy much.

I understand this is easier to do in CAM software with cutter comp, but 
its better to have a model that really represents the parts your gonna 
make. You may not remneber the cutter comp next time you make the trode.

Ok, vinny, your go.

(Egghead 1701, your turn to insutl me and tell me I'd be better off 
drinking some more, and talking about real tipics, not damned mold stuff 
which everybody knows all you need to know about that is that you send 
it to the friggen Chinks, cuz that what it says in magaizines).

Dusty.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"PotFlower" <PotFlower@Daisy.org> wrote in message 
news:46eaf67d$0$16294$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>
>> extracting electrodes from part models.
>
> Easy. Just copy surfaces with knit or offset, and extrude a solid up to 
> the copied surface (with merge off). Youd want to get rid of the 
> multibodies before sending it to a machinist because theyre as likely to 
> get confused or machine it all as a single part or some such stupidity. Of 
> course you have to make sure the model is scaled to account for shrink 
> firts. And don't do it with configs, cuz machineists dont knwo fuck about 
> configs, and given a choice of two will never ask, but will ALWAUS select 
> the wrong one to machine.I always export to a dumb solid before sending 
> anything to a mchineist.
>
> Or you could just make a block representing the trode blank as a separate 
> body, and subtract the main part from it.

 This is my current method, but I like the first one better.

>
> The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a 3D 
> orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit you would 
> only offset the vertical faces. If it's just a loose and wobly connection, 
> yer on yer own to tighten the fucker.
>
> One cool tool is the Move Face which enables you to do in a solid what 
> Offset Surface does for surfaces, purdy much.

Yep, I use that a lot. replace is just as useful for trodes also.

>
> I understand this is easier to do in CAM software with cutter comp, but 
> its better to have a model that really represents the parts your gonna 
> make. You may not remneber the cutter comp next time you make the trode.
>
> Ok, vinny, your go.
>

 uhh, your a dickhead???  LOL... jokin
Seriously, I currently use the make a seperate body then subtract method. 
Works good, but recently Iv'e been trying to use the first method you 
listed, not having much luck.
 It just seemes too easy that way, so I expected it to fail, but having a 
second person say it out loud makes it possible...

 Expect this thread to continue...thanks.

Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in news:pcmke31e0mskigd57c6aop7g7eona5tek6@
4ax.com:

>   They are just very handicapped ...  (and not too bright).

Funny how the paer here reported on the same study didn't come to that 
conclusion. They also pointed out the shortcomings of the hard wired left 
wing brain.

Typical of the trait, you only see what you want to see.

-- 

Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>

On ,
      PotFlower wrote:

>> extracting electrodes from part models.
>>
>>
>
> Easy. Just copy surfaces with knit or offset, and extrude a solid up
> to the copied surface (with merge off). Youd want to get rid of the
> multibodies before sending it to a machinist because theyre as likely
> to get confused or machine it all as a single part or some such
> stupidity. Of course you have to make sure the model is scaled to
> account for shrink firts. And don't do it with configs, cuz
> machineists dont knwo fuck about configs, and given a choice of two
> will never ask, but will ALWAUS select the wrong one to machine.I
> always export to a dumb solid before sending anything to a mchineist.
>
> Or you could just make a block representing the trode blank as a
> separate body, and subtract the main part from it.
>
> The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a 3D
> orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit you
> would only offset the vertical faces.

 Its worse than that.Corner radii in the x-y plane or whatever plane you 
burn on needs those smaller by the amount of the orbit. But at the same 
time, each direction needs moved into center the orbit amount. Its insane 
and it needs addressed. NOBODY bearly uses a simple offset, or a unigap, or 
an equimode, or a spherical orbit, whatever you want to call it, 99% of the 
time your using a circle orb or at least should be,
 Thats complicated as hell.
 Not only does it need moved towards center the overburn amount, radii on 
the sides need to be smaller by the overburn amount, but not the bottom. 
Problem is radii sometimes wrap around the bottom, creating both conditions.

 Everyone cheats, and just uses offset.
 Doing it in solidworks is insane, but I wonder if there;s an addon that can 
do it? There's gotta be. Every day people more and more want things right 
nobody used to never check.

snipped for brevity

> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
> I am staying with it.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
Good for you, Ed. Your presence, and that of the other helpful ones, is 
what keeps me here.

Art

>  Doing it in solidworks is insane, but I wonder if there;s an addon that can
> do it? There's gotta be. Every day people more and more want things right
> nobody used to never check.


Have ever you or Pushing Up Daisies ever taken a look at Cimatron to
see if you like how they deal with electrodes?

The most impressive parts I have ever seen done by an alt.machines.cnc
poster were done by Brain Sloan / Cimatron Brian (also used Gibbscam).
Both he and Toolmaker Mike / Moldmaker Mike loved Cimatron. I took a
look at Delcam's site and VX's site and neither appears to have the
comprehensive solution that Cimatron does for electrodes.

http://www.cimatron.com/general.aspx?FolderID=37&lang=en

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/07/spend-a-littleo.html#comment-76366100

PotFlower wrote:

> The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a 3D 
> orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit you would 
> only offset the vertical faces.

> I understand this is easier to do in CAM software with cutter comp, but 
> its better to have a model that really represents the parts your gonna 
> make. You may not remneber the cutter comp next time you make the trode.

That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM 
electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed exceptions 
when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are very few and far 
between.

HTH

-- 
Black Dragon                                     http://improve-usenet.org

eternity, n:
	The length of time between when you come and he leaves.

> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM 
> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed exceptions 
> when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are very few and far 
> between.

Ah, here we have another blow-hard superior type. You and Egghead 1701 
would get along well. Claims without backup.

You just throw shit without making a case. Tell us why, swami.

Dusty.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> Ah, here we have another blow-hard superior type. You and Egghead 1701
> would get along well. Claims without backup.

That's exactly how you and Tom Brewer often present yourself.

As we saw in the Multiple Contexts poll I started both of you are
often wrong / full of shit.

A SolidWorks expert is someone who knows more and more about less and
less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/07/spend-a-littleo.html#comment-76366100

PotFlower wrote:

>> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM 
>> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed exceptions 
>> when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are very few and far 
>> between.

> Ah, here we have another blow-hard superior type. You and Egghead 1701 
> would get along well. Claims without backup.

My backup is in my experience. Some close to 30 years of cleaning up messes 
created by people like you.

> You just throw shit without making a case. Tell us why, swami.

Because I'm not interested in teaching you knuckle heads how to manufacture 
EDM electrodes efficiently, mmkay?

-- 
Black Dragon                                     http://improve-usenet.org

We call our dog Egypt, because in every room he leaves a pyramid.

On ,
      Black Dragon wrote:

> PotFlower wrote:
>
>> The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a 3D
>> orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit you
>> would only offset the vertical faces.
>
>> I understand this is easier to do in CAM software with cutter comp,
>> but its better to have a model that really represents the parts your
>> gonna make. You may not remneber the cutter comp next time you make
>> the trode.
>
> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM
> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed
> exceptions when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are
> very few and far between.
>
> HTH

i disagree. It depends on the overburn type and it also depends on the 
ability of the ones running your cam.
  When we make an electrode in solidworks...its finished.
See that way, we can make accurate prints of the electrodes instantly. 

On ,
      Black Dragon wrote:

> PotFlower wrote:
>
>>> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM
>>> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed
>>> exceptions when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are
>>> very few and far between.
>
>> Ah, here we have another blow-hard superior type. You and Egghead
>> 1701 would get along well. Claims without backup.
>
> My backup is in my experience. Some close to 30 years of cleaning up
> messes created by people like you.
>
>> You just throw shit without making a case. Tell us why, swami.
>
> Because I'm not interested in teaching you knuckle heads how to
> manufacture EDM electrodes efficiently, mmkay?

 Where I work I did the electrodes on the mill when I had time between 
burns. I usually used cutter diameter in the cam system for overburn instead 
of offset because the Z value of the cutter doesnt change when I change its 
size.
 But that was then....
 now we have a room of people, not just 3. So now partially due to iso9000, 
partially due to hiring less and less experienced people we model ALL 
electrodes, no matter how simple.
 All electrodes are offset for whatever type of orbit used in solidworks, 
and prints are made from that electrode.

 At first I screamed...STOP this is a waste of time.(I repeaditly got told 
to shut up), but now, I will admit it works, it works damn good. The amount 
of electrodes that are wrong that makes it to the edm's are ... uhhh..ZERO!

Art Woodbury wrote:
> snipped for brevity (no shit, 1701 can hold forth, can't he?)
> 
>> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
>> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
>> I am staying with it.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
> Good for you, Ed. Your presence, and that of the other helpful ones, is 
> what keeps me here.
> 
> Art

Good for both of you. If you believe you can outlast JB, you are fools. 
You are wasting your time here waiting for the shit to stop falling out 
of the sky. One day it will abate, but how much time and energy will you 
have wasted by then?

Dusty.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <46ec940c$0$14912$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, 
PotFlower@Daisy.org says...
> Art Woodbury wrote:
> > snipped for brevity (no shit, 1701 can hold forth, can't he?)
I'll listen to anything Ed has to say here, at any length. I snipped 
most of his post because I was replying to his last paragraph. It's 
called Nettiquette, of which there's damned little here.

> > 
> >> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
> >> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
> >> I am staying with it.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> > Good for you, Ed. Your presence, and that of the other helpful ones, is 
> > what keeps me here.
> > 
> > Art
> 
> Good for both of you. If you believe you can outlast JB, you are fools. 
> You are wasting your time here waiting for the shit to stop falling out 
> of the sky. One day it will abate, but how much time and energy will you 
> have wasted by then?
> 
> Dusty.
> 
The only reason I saw your post was curiosity. Since I've worked on my 
filters, the message count that I see here has dropped like a stone. I 
turned the filters off (briefly) to see if I had missed anything 
worthwhile, so the filters could be better tuned.

As far as outlasting JB & Company, I can outlast anyone without 
expending any time or energy. With good filters, the noisemakers simply 
disappear.  

vinny wrote:

> On ,
>       Black Dragon wrote:

>> PotFlower wrote:

>>> The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a 3D
>>> orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit you
>>> would only offset the vertical faces.

>>> I understand this is easier to do in CAM software with cutter comp,
>>> but its better to have a model that really represents the parts your
>>> gonna make. You may not remneber the cutter comp next time you make
>>> the trode.

>> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM
>> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed
>> exceptions when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are
>> very few and far between.

>> HTH

> i disagree. It depends on the overburn type and it also depends on the 
> ability of the ones running your cam.
>   When we make an electrode in solidworks...its finished.
> See that way, we can make accurate prints of the electrodes instantly. 

Making prints for electrodes is as necessary as making tool prints for
molds. i.e. it's only necessary in dinosaur shops anymore, and they're
almost all extinct. The only prints I've ever made for electrodes were 
for when the trodes were going to be form ground on surface grinders and 
the people doing the grinding weren't CAD proficient, and when making 
setup sheets for EDM operators.

What do you do when you have an electrode with, say for example, 1000 
faces and the electrode topology will change when offset for some .02 to 
..03" of spherical orbit? You know, the kind of situation any CAD system 
will choke on if you're working in solids. You gonna' sit there and diddle 
around trimming a thousand offset surfaces, in Solidworks LOL!, or you 
gonna' just enter negative .02 - .03" stock to leave in the CAM system and 
motor away?

-- 
Black Dragon                                     http://improve-usenet.org

falsie salesman, n:
	Fuller bust man.

vinny wrote:

> On ,
>       Black Dragon wrote:

>> PotFlower wrote:

>>>> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM
>>>> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed
>>>> exceptions when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are
>>>> very few and far between.

>>> Ah, here we have another blow-hard superior type. You and Egghead
>>> 1701 would get along well. Claims without backup.

>> My backup is in my experience. Some close to 30 years of cleaning up
>> messes created by people like you.

>>> You just throw shit without making a case. Tell us why, swami.

>> Because I'm not interested in teaching you knuckle heads how to
>> manufacture EDM electrodes efficiently, mmkay?

>  Where I work I did the electrodes on the mill when I had time between 
> burns. I usually used cutter diameter in the cam system for overburn instead 
> of offset because the Z value of the cutter doesnt change when I change its 
> size.
>  But that was then....
>  now we have a room of people, not just 3. So now partially due to iso9000, 
> partially due to hiring less and less experienced people we model ALL 
> electrodes, no matter how simple.
>  All electrodes are offset for whatever type of orbit used in solidworks, 
> and prints are made from that electrode.

You can't be doing anything very complicated then.

>  At first I screamed...STOP this is a waste of time.(I repeaditly got told 
> to shut up), but now, I will admit it works, it works damn good. The amount 
> of electrodes that are wrong that makes it to the edm's are ... uhhh..ZERO!

Nah. It's still a waste of time, you just got used to being forced to
waste that time is all. Been there, done that, but not with electrode
manufacturing.

-- 
Black Dragon                                     http://improve-usenet.org

falsie salesman, n:
	Fuller bust man.

On ,
      Black Dragon wrote:

> vinny wrote:
>
>> On ,
>>       Black Dragon wrote:
>
>>> PotFlower wrote:
>
>>>>> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp
>>>>> EDM electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed
>>>>> exceptions when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are
>>>>> very few and far between.
>
>>>> Ah, here we have another blow-hard superior type. You and Egghead
>>>> 1701 would get along well. Claims without backup.
>
>>> My backup is in my experience. Some close to 30 years of cleaning up
>>> messes created by people like you.
>
>>>> You just throw shit without making a case. Tell us why, swami.
>
>>> Because I'm not interested in teaching you knuckle heads how to
>>> manufacture EDM electrodes efficiently, mmkay?
>
>>  Where I work I did the electrodes on the mill when I had time
>> between burns. I usually used cutter diameter in the cam system for
>> overburn instead of offset because the Z value of the cutter doesnt
>> change when I change its size.
>>  But that was then....
>>  now we have a room of people, not just 3. So now partially due to
>> iso9000, partially due to hiring less and less experienced people we
>> model ALL electrodes, no matter how simple.
>>  All electrodes are offset for whatever type of orbit used in
>> solidworks, and prints are made from that electrode.
>
> You can't be doing anything very complicated then.
>
>>  At first I screamed...STOP this is a waste of time.(I repeaditly
>> got told to shut up), but now, I will admit it works, it works damn
>> good. The amount of electrodes that are wrong that makes it to the
>> edm's are ... uhhh..ZERO!
>
> Nah. It's still a waste of time, you just got used to being forced to
> waste that time is all. Been there, done that, but not with electrode
> manufacturing.

It's tough to argue with you on this, because I'm still half on your side. I 
have been spanked into the corner bad over bitching about it.(literally, 
STFU or leave!)
   But...look at even our easiest electrodes. They look like pencils, they 
make catheters. Usually around 3" long, maybe .3 at the shank, .01 at the 
tip, maybe 2 or 3 angles. (we should turn and burn them in the edm)
  Hell a verbal explanation would be a good enough print.
 But...
 I have templates, one called 3angle, one called 4angle, one called 2angle.
 So I call up the drawing 2angle, change three numbers rebuild then i call 
up the drawing print and print it. Then i call up the edm setup print and 
print it. Then I call up the excel inspection sheet and print. Whole process 
now takes as long as it takes to print out three sheets.

  I swear we get good trodes from them. Make them like the print +_.0001 or 
its wrong, no questions asked.

This process has a big added plus, we don't take long at all to model a 
trode now from all the prctice, no matter how easy or how hard, they are 
"ALL" easy now. The other guy doing them is our apprentice of 2 years. He 
makes like 13 an hour and he can model any electrode there is on solidworks. 
Mastercam has turned into a 10 second path maker for us.

 2 years ago, I would of struggled making the lamest trodes.

NOW, to play devils advocate....
 Thursday I go to work, and I'M milling steel cause were out of work, and 
the apprentice is milling brass baffles in the graphite mill. They are .2 
thick X 1" wide with a radius wrapped down them.
  I went to the computer to do a proggy, and there was that baffle....in 
solidowks modeled. :(
NOW THAT WAS A Firable offence when I was a yungun.

  I looked at the apprentice crosseyed and he just laughed and held up the 
inspection sheet he made. lol

On ,
      Black Dragon wrote:

> vinny wrote:
>
>> On ,
>>       Black Dragon wrote:
>
>>> PotFlower wrote:
>
>>>> The tricky part is accounting for orbit and spark gap. If it is a
>>>> 3D orbit, you could do an offset of all the faces, but a 2D orbit
>>>> you would only offset the vertical faces.
>
>>>> I understand this is easier to do in CAM software with cutter comp,
>>>> but its better to have a model that really represents the parts
>>>> your gonna make. You may not remneber the cutter comp next time
>>>> you make the trode.
>
>>> That is patently absurd. Only a total fucking retard would comp EDM
>>> electrode CAD models for spark gap and orbit. There are indeed
>>> exceptions when it is actually necessary but those exceptions are
>>> very few and far between.
>
>>> HTH
>
>> i disagree. It depends on the overburn type and it also depends on
>> the ability of the ones running your cam.
>>   When we make an electrode in solidworks...its finished.
>> See that way, we can make accurate prints of the electrodes
>> instantly.
>
> Making prints for electrodes is as necessary as making tool prints for
> molds. i.e. it's only necessary in dinosaur shops anymore, and they're
> almost all extinct. The only prints I've ever made for electrodes were
> for when the trodes were going to be form ground on surface grinders
> and the people doing the grinding weren't CAD proficient, and when
> making setup sheets for EDM operators.
>
> What do you do when you have an electrode with, say for example, 1000
> faces and the electrode topology will change when offset for some .02
> to .03" of spherical orbit? You know, the kind of situation any CAD
> system will choke on if you're working in solids. You gonna' sit
> there and diddle around trimming a thousand offset surfaces, in
> Solidworks LOL!, or you gonna' just enter negative .02 - .03" stock
> to leave in the CAM system and motor away?


OK, here's what I would "LIKE" to do, then what I would "HAVE to do, then 
what I "WOULD" do if it were my money:

 I posted her a while back about 3d cutter comp. If the computer can do it 
accurately, then the machine should be able to. Haas has the stuff built in, 
and claim it works, but mastercam lacked the vector outputs except in 5th 
axis stuff. I tried it...no go. Thats what I would LIKE to do.


What I would HAVE to do is make it right in solidworks.
  The power of solidworks is when you have 1000 faces, you somehow link them 
together parametrically, so your just editing one. If it's someone elses 
junk model, sometimes start from scratch. Who knows, but I would definitely 
have to get er done in solidworks.

 What would I do if it was my money? In mastercam I would use a .250 ball, 
but tell mastercam it's a .230 ball, and problem over. Olden days(pre 9-11 
lol ) we would have every cutter in fractions. That way you make your 
finishers, then grab the next up cutter and make the ruffers. NOW...we dont 
make roughers, maybe 1 in 1000 trodes.

Now, if I had my own buissiness, I'd prolly have a lot more money, but I 
wouldnt know how to play with all these fun toys. 

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:16:23 -0400, PotFlower <PotFlower@Daisy.org> wrote:

>Art Woodbury wrote:
>> snipped for brevity (no shit, 1701 can hold forth, can't he?)
>> 
>>> But I don't feel like surrendering this group to them just yet.  Fuck
>>> them. Its line in the sand time, and while there are still others here
>>> I am staying with it.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>> Good for you, Ed. Your presence, and that of the other helpful ones, is 
>> what keeps me here.
>> 
>> Art
>
>Good for both of you. If you believe you can outlast JB, you are fools. 

  They can just *ignore* his posts and those that follow.
  OTOH then they will forever wonder what bad advice he just gave
somone *that they could have helped to correct*.

>You are wasting your time here waiting for the shit to stop falling out 
>of the sky. One day it will abate, but how much time and energy will you 
>have wasted by then?

  And how many will have gotten bad advice(& many buzzwords &
ads for other unrelated products) from the clueless?

>Dusty.
-- 
Cliff

On 14 Sep 2007 22:39:45 GMT, D Murphy <spamto154@comcast.net> wrote:

>Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in news:pcmke31e0mskigd57c6aop7g7eona5tek6@
>4ax.com:
>
>>   They are just very handicapped ...  (and not too bright).
>
>Funny how the paer here reported on the same study didn't come to that 
>conclusion. They also pointed out the shortcomings of the hard wired left 
>wing brain.
>
>Typical of the trait, you only see what you want to see.

  Found those "Wmds" yet?

  For those in comp.cad.solidworks wondering what Dan is going on about:
http://tinyurl.com/2ec3wvhttp://tinyurl.com/2ec3wv

  W W W W W W W
-- 
Cliff

Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in
news:ocgve3hqihs28tqbg2bp2i5s9b10ejojsc@4ax.com: 

> On 14 Sep 2007 22:39:45 GMT, D Murphy <spamto154@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>>Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in
>>news:pcmke31e0mskigd57c6aop7g7eona5tek6@ 4ax.com:
>>
>>>   They are just very handicapped ...  (and not too bright).
>>
>>Funny how the paer here reported on the same study didn't come to that
>>conclusion. They also pointed out the shortcomings of the hard wired
>>left wing brain.
>>
>>Typical of the trait, you only see what you want to see.
> 
>   Found those "Wmds" yet?
> 
>   For those in comp.cad.solidworks wondering what Dan is going on
>   about: 
> http://tinyurl.com/2ec3wvhttp://tinyurl.com/2ec3wv
> 
>   W W W W W W W

Nice link. First day on the internet?

-- 

Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d>