http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/solidworks/select/cadcamnet_proe_vs_solidw
orks.htm

"Although SolidWorks enables adjacent lofted surfaces to be tangent,
it can't assure continuous curvature (C2) between two surfaces"

Is this fixed in SolidWorks 2005 ?

No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX.

jon

Jon:

I just can't let this one slide.  Against my better judgment, I'm going
to ask you if you understand the difference between C0 ,C1, and C2
continuity.

"No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX." only accounts for
the C1 condition.

Everyone else:
Let's just quietly wait and see if he can actually give a coherent
answer.
Cliff:
Stay out of this for the moment.  I want to here his answer.

"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message
news:1106442464.995097.91780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Jon:
>
> I just can't let this one slide.  Against my better judgment, I'm going
> to ask you if you understand the difference between C0 ,C1, and C2
> continuity.
>
> "No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX." only accounts for
> the C1 condition.
>
> Everyone else:
> Let's just quietly wait and see if he can actually give a coherent
> answer.
> Cliff:
> Stay out of this for the moment.  I want to here his answer.
>

From: "jon banquer" <myfirstandlastn...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:05:38 -0700
Local: Tues, Oct 28 2003 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: Mark Biasotti on Wildfire vs. SolidWorks

I have already gotten a few e-mails asking for an explanation of what
C2 surfacing is and what the hell is it needed for. :>)


I like this simple definition:


http://www.cadserver.co.uk/common/viewer/archive/2000/Aug/10/feature3...


"Surfaces are classified in three different ways: C0, C1 and C2 according to
the degree of contin-uity (smoothness) of the surface.


A C0 surface has one or more breaks in its continuity. A break in continuity
of a surface is an abrupt change in surface direction. For example two flat
sheets of metal joined at right angles have an abrupt change in continuity
at the right angle. They form a C0 surface.


A C1 surface has one or more changes in curvature that could cause serious
problems to the cutter of a machine tool. For example, the cutter could
gouge into the metal surface when the curvature changes. You might ask what'
s the difference then between a C0 and a C1 surface. Well, a C0 surface has
no tangency at the discontinuity, whereas a C1 surface does have tangency.
For example, a C1 surface could be made by joining a flat sheet of metal to
a curved sheet of metal, such that the flat and the curve are tangential
across the joint. Gouging can still occur where the sheets join, especially
if the curvature is too much for the machine tool.


C2 surfaces are, as you have probably guessed, the bee's knees. C2 surfaces
have continuous curvature."


jon

Not bad.  Better than I expected.

Now, can you find the C0 dicontinuities in the logic of your original
post?

"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message
news:1106443313.106985.103660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Not bad.  Better than I expected.
>
> Now, can you find the C0 dicontinuities in the logic of your original
> post?
>

I'm really not concerned with living up to your expectations.

I will say this latest charade of yours, where you got blown out of the
water once again, shows why I have such low expectations of you.

"The Virus" will be along any minute so you can suckle.

jon

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35gdmgF4m09p5U1@individual.net...
>
> "That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message
> news:1106443313.106985.103660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Not bad.  Better than I expected.
> >
> > Now, can you find the C0 dicontinuities in the logic of your original
> > post?
> >
>
> I'm really not concerned with living up to your expectations.
>
> I will say this latest charade of yours, where you got blown out of the
> water once again, shows why I have such low expectations of you.
>
> "The Virus" will be along any minute so you can suckle.
>
> jon
>

Newsgroups: comp.cad.solidworks
From: "jon banquer" <myfirstandlastn...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:24:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Mark Biasotti on Wildfire vs. SolidWorks

As explained by Joe Greco:


"C0, C1 and C2 Surface Conditions


Generally, there are three kinds of boundary
conditions in a surface model. C0 refers to surfaces
that are just touching but could potentially have a
shape corner or crease; possible manufacturing
problems can result. C1 refers to a tangent (smooth)
condition, and C2 to a consistent continuous tangent
curvature. With C2, the boundary is imperceptible to
the eye-you can't see were one surface begins and
where on ends."


jon

"Tangent continuous" means C1 continuity.

How does VX's ability to handle C1 continuity compete with SW's
shortcomings in handling C2 continuity?

I'm going to end this now.  Go ahead and get the last word in.  I'm
going to go gas myself in the garage now because I've learned you have
low expectations of me.  Truly a mortal injury to my fragile psyche.

I forgot to add my dying words...
"No, this doesn't mean I'm taking sides with Cliff."

"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message
news:1106445690.928184.245670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> "Tangent continuous" means C1 continuity.
>
> How does VX's ability to handle C1 continuity compete with SW's
> shortcomings in handling C2 continuity?
>
> I'm going to end this now.  Go ahead and get the last word in.  I'm
> going to go gas myself in the garage now because I've learned you have
> low expectations of me.  Truly a mortal injury to my fragile psyche.
>

C2 means that the tangent direction and the curvature of the surfaces are
the same and like I said... VX can do this. Apparently SolidWorks still
can't.

Any reason you can't download VX and see for yourself ?

jon

Ok, I have to ask, why all of the bad feeling here??
I don't take sides, just curious :-)

"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message 
news:1106445869.077411.267950@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I forgot to add my dying words...
> "No, this doesn't mean I'm taking sides with Cliff."
> 

"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in 
news:1106445869.077411.267950@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I forgot to add my dying words...
> "No, this doesn't mean I'm taking sides with Cliff."
> 
> 

Just by you repyling to him makes you part of the VX team clique brah.

GO TEAM VX!

And keep going all the way down the road clutching yer free demo's.

Bing

OK, last time I checked this was a SolidWorks NG, people posting questions
about how to work with SolidWorks and all its inherent limitations. JON,
FUCK OFF with all your uniseamed inbred modelling software If VX is sooooo
gooood why the fuck do you need to poach solidworks users from this NG?

VX a "uniform inbred modelling solution" date yer daughter...

Solidworks is great, I love it. I dont give a shit about  VX or VD or
whatever you are pushing, I want to listen to knowedgeable  solidworks users
and benefit from their knowledge, if you had at least the slighest fucking
clue you would listen quietly and develop your second rate software so it
might stand a chance of competing in the MCAD market, last i checked VX was
a dot on the horizon compared to SWX or IV.

Wanker


"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35gaonF4l3sqmU1@individual.net...
>
http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/solidworks/select/cadcamnet_proe_vs_solidw
> orks.htm
>
> "Although SolidWorks enables adjacent lofted surfaces to be tangent,
> it can't assure continuous curvature (C2) between two surfaces"
>
> Is this fixed in SolidWorks 2005 ?
>
> No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX.
>
> jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

wry&dry wrote:
> 
> OK, last time I checked this was a SolidWorks NG, people posting questions
> about how to work with SolidWorks and all its inherent limitations. JON,
> FUCK OFF with all your uniseamed inbred modelling software If VX is sooooo
> gooood why the fuck do you need to poach solidworks users from this NG?
....(clip)...

OK, now listen up.  I don't like to take sides -- especially JBs side --
but what he did here was to give us a shot at trying out something else
at no risk to us.  That's not a slap in the face (well, maybe a little
slap, but a harmless one).  Yeh, maybe his yammering gets on my nerves,
too, but I can't say I like the tone that the whole newsgroup is taking
about his posts.  Even though I've poked him myself a time or two lately
(and enjoyed it) I think it's better just to observe the adage:
"Don't feed the trolls"

Stooping to a low level doesn't help anyone.

'Sporky'

Hey Mark.

Did they have those machine screws ??? I never got around to checking

Mark


"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:41F3287C.50C45619@bigfootDOT.com...
> wry&dry wrote:
> >
> > OK, last time I checked this was a SolidWorks NG, people posting
questions
> > about how to work with SolidWorks and all its inherent limitations. JON,
> > FUCK OFF with all your uniseamed inbred modelling software If VX is
sooooo
> > gooood why the fuck do you need to poach solidworks users from this NG?
> ...(clip)...
>
> OK, now listen up.  I don't like to take sides -- especially JBs side --
> but what he did here was to give us a shot at trying out something else
> at no risk to us.  That's not a slap in the face (well, maybe a little
> slap, but a harmless one).  Yeh, maybe his yammering gets on my nerves,
> too, but I can't say I like the tone that the whole newsgroup is taking
> about his posts.  Even though I've poked him myself a time or two lately
> (and enjoyed it) I think it's better just to observe the adage:
> "Don't feed the trolls"
>
> Stooping to a low level doesn't help anyone.
>
> 'Sporky'

Sporkman <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in
news:41F3287C.50C45619@bigfootDOT.com: 

> wry&dry wrote:
>> 
>> OK, last time I checked this was a SolidWorks NG, people posting
>> questions about how to work with SolidWorks and all its inherent
>> limitations. JON, FUCK OFF with all your uniseamed inbred modelling
>> software If VX is sooooo gooood why the fuck do you need to poach
>> solidworks users from this NG? 
> ...(clip)...
> 
> OK, now listen up.  I don't like to take sides -- especially JBs side
> -- but what he did here was to give us a shot at trying out something
> else at no risk to us.  That's not a slap in the face (well, maybe a
> little slap, but a harmless one).  Yeh, maybe his yammering gets on my
> nerves, too, but I can't say I like the tone that the whole newsgroup
> is taking about his posts.  Even though I've poked him myself a time
> or two lately (and enjoyed it) I think it's better just to observe the
> adage: "Don't feed the trolls"
> 
> Stooping to a low level doesn't help anyone.

Tell him to show me results then. 

Somehow I dont see anything other than bolstering

Lame attempt as well.

Bing

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:14:33 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message
>news:1106442464.995097.91780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Jon:
>>
>> I just can't let this one slide.  Against my better judgment, I'm going
>> to ask you if you understand the difference between C0 ,C1, and C2
>> continuity.
>>
>> "No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX." only accounts for
>> the C1 condition.
>>
>> Everyone else:
>> Let's just quietly wait and see if he can actually give a coherent
>> answer.
>> Cliff:
>> Stay out of this for the moment.  I want to here his answer.

  Sure thing <G>.

>From: "jon banquer" <myfirstandlastn...@yahoo.com>
>Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:05:38 -0700
>Local: Tues, Oct 28 2003 6:05 pm
>Subject: Re: Mark Biasotti on Wildfire vs. SolidWorks
>
>I have already gotten a few e-mails asking for an explanation of what
>C2 surfacing is and what the hell is it needed for. :>)
>
>
>I like this simple definition:
>
>
>http://www.cadserver.co.uk/common/viewer/archive/2000/Aug/10/feature3...
>

  Was that long enough?
  He had no clue. Not a one. As usual.
-- 
Cliff

On 22 Jan 2005 17:21:53 -0800, "That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com>
wrote:

>Not bad.  Better than I expected.

  It was just a copied bit from someone else and missed entirely the
question about "faces tangent continuous in VX" & C1 <G>.
-- 
Cliff

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:54:30 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>As explained by Joe Greco:

  No clues from jb <G>.
-- 
Cliff

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:27:01 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in message
>news:1106445690.928184.245670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> "Tangent continuous" means C1 continuity.
>>
>> How does VX's ability to handle C1 continuity compete with SW's
>> shortcomings in handling C2 continuity?
>>
>> I'm going to end this now.  Go ahead and get the last word in.  I'm
>> going to go gas myself in the garage now because I've learned you have
>> low expectations of me.  Truly a mortal injury to my fragile psyche.
>>
>
>C2 means that the tangent direction and the curvature of the surfaces are
>the same and like I said... 

A) You actually said nothing. You just copied from others.
B) One can clearly see by what you just posted that you
are an idiot and know nothing.

  HINT/CLUE: What "tangent direction"?

  10 to 1 you cannot even define "curvature", much less
"curvature of the surfaces", even after hunting for people
to steal words from.

HTH
-- 
Cliff

Two things I believe in, is free speech and not sticking my head in the 
sand.
I thought you had those views in the USA, too?
If replying to Jon makes me part of the VX team, so be it!
Strange thing is, a free demo, was what got me in solid works!
Free demos of Inventor and ProE convinced me, that they were not for me.


"Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message 
news:Xns95E6DCF955DB1bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
> "That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com> wrote in
> news:1106445869.077411.267950@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I forgot to add my dying words...
>> "No, this doesn't mean I'm taking sides with Cliff."
>>
>>
>
> Just by you repyling to him makes you part of the VX team clique brah.
>
> GO TEAM VX!
>
> And keep going all the way down the road clutching yer free demo's.
>
> Bing
> 

"pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in news:csvt76$i0e$1
@news.freedom2surf.net:

> Two things I believe in, is free speech and not sticking my head in the 
> sand.
> I thought you had those views in the USA, too?

Uh, I thought I was exercising my right of free speech.

> If replying to Jon makes me part of the VX team, so be it!
> Strange thing is, a free demo, was what got me in solid works!
> Free demos of Inventor and ProE convinced me, that they were not for me.


Well, good for you.
Only demo I ever got for a CAD system was from Dink3.

Oh, you must be talkin bout those other demo's

Bing

Couple of comments:

> A C0 surface has one or more breaks in its continuity. A break in
continuity
> of a surface is an abrupt change in surface direction. For example two
flat
> sheets of metal joined at right angles have an abrupt change in continuity
> at the right angle. They form a C0 surface.

That much is OK.

> A C1 surface has one or more changes in curvature that could cause serious
> problems to the cutter of a machine tool. For example, the cutter could
> gouge into the metal surface when the curvature changes.

This much is BS.  A cutter can gouge if the surfaces are C0, C1, C2, C3 or
more...  if the cutter nose  radius is larger than the local surface
radius - and - your CAM program doesn't have gouge checking.  Otherwise, no
problem.  Also, depends whether it's an inside or outside condition.
Outside (convex) conditions are no problem. <G>

> You might ask what'
> s the difference then between a C0 and a C1 surface. Well, a C0 surface
has
> no tangency at the discontinuity, whereas a C1 surface does have tangency.

> For example, a C1 surface could be made by joining a flat sheet of metal
to
> a curved sheet of metal, such that the flat and the curve are tangential
> across the joint. Gouging can still occur where the sheets join,
especially
> if the curvature is too much for the machine tool.

Again, BS.

> C2 surfaces are, as you have probably guessed, the bee's knees. C2
surfaces
> have continuous curvature."

Bees knees for who?  In what application?  Your definition doesn't help.

You also posted this:

"Generally, there are three kinds of boundary
conditions in a surface model. C0 refers to surfaces
that are just touching but could potentially have a
shape corner or crease; possible manufacturing
problems can result. C1 refers to a tangent (smooth)
condition, and C2 to a consistent continuous tangent
curvature. With C2, the boundary is imperceptible to
the eye-you can't see were one surface begins and
where on ends."

Which gives a little bit better clue to C2, as it's listed in terms of eye
perception.  That's what it's all about - visuals.

Note that there is often discussion of C3 (or G3) or even higher curvature
continuous joints.  What are they?  Well C2 or G2 are have continuous
curvature at the joint, but the *rate of change of that curvature* is
different on either side of the joint.  People (especially in the automotive
body surfacing field) *claim* that this can still be seen, so they want
C3/G3, which the rate of change of the curvature at the joint is also equal.
Very few programs can do this, probably stuff like ICEM surf...  Maybe
Alias.  Catia?

Note also that these conditions can occur either at a joint between two
discreet surfaces, or actually within a single surface - that is to say a
single surface can be internally C0, C1, C2, C3, etc.  Although C0 (kinked)
single surfaces are allowed in NURBS and BREP geometry, they are not often
used - most programs like to split them into separate surfaces at the
kink(s).  I can, however, make a single surface cube in Rhino (that's right
, only one surface), send it out via IGES to Surfcam, and mill it with a
single cut operation.  If gouge checking is turned on, it will mill what it
can see and leave the rest alone.

Lastly, the usefulness of C2 or higher joint conditions depends on the
application.  Circular fillets are G1.  For mechanical parts, this is fine -
having C2 fillets would be ridiculous.  But for ID/appearance applications,
or perhaps things where air or fluid drag come into play, it can be
important.

Note, no quotes from anyone here... Except your posts.

--Mitch

It must be the American way, I suppose, my tribe your tribe attitude :-S
We don't have that here in my company, everyone is called by their first 
name, no Mr sir or boss.

Strange that you never got to try other demo's, was this your choice or was 
you forced into using one package?

Don't get me wrong, I love Solidworks, (when it works), I have even just 
sighed up for a 3 year deal with my VAR, But I am always looking for a 
better way of doing things.
I found that Solidworks was better, (for me), than Autocad for doing lots of 
things what I want.
Autocad still has it's place in my company and we still use it.
The main problem I have with solidworks, is the slooowness of it, (could be 
just me!).
In a big company, this is easily to cover, but in a small company it can 
break you.

I would suggest that everyone should try other packages, you never know, you 
might find a better one.
Otherwise India's workforce might start taking more work from you, as they 
have also started to take from us.

Remember, Time is money and attitude is pants!


"Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message 
news:Xns95E736CCDB365bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
> "pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in news:csvt76$i0e$1
> @news.freedom2surf.net:
>
>> Two things I believe in, is free speech and not sticking my head in the
>> sand.
>> I thought you had those views in the USA, too?
>
> Uh, I thought I was exercising my right of free speech.
>
>> If replying to Jon makes me part of the VX team, so be it!
>> Strange thing is, a free demo, was what got me in solid works!
>> Free demos of Inventor and ProE convinced me, that they were not for me.
>
>
> Well, good for you.
> Only demo I ever got for a CAD system was from Dink3.
>
> Oh, you must be talkin bout those other demo's
>
> Bing
> 

Thanks Mitch, I don't use cam, so had no idea what this post was about, lol

Knowledge is a wonderful thing, gained by people willing to learn, shunned 
by morons!

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message 
news:41f380e4_3@news.bluewin.ch...
> Couple of comments:
>
>> A C0 surface has one or more breaks in its continuity. A break in
> continuity
>> of a surface is an abrupt change in surface direction. For example two
> flat
>> sheets of metal joined at right angles have an abrupt change in 
>> continuity
>> at the right angle. They form a C0 surface.
>
> That much is OK.
>
>> A C1 surface has one or more changes in curvature that could cause 
>> serious
>> problems to the cutter of a machine tool. For example, the cutter could
>> gouge into the metal surface when the curvature changes.
>
> This much is BS.  A cutter can gouge if the surfaces are C0, C1, C2, C3 or
> more...  if the cutter nose  radius is larger than the local surface
> radius - and - your CAM program doesn't have gouge checking.  Otherwise, 
> no
> problem.  Also, depends whether it's an inside or outside condition.
> Outside (convex) conditions are no problem. <G>
>
>> You might ask what'
>> s the difference then between a C0 and a C1 surface. Well, a C0 surface
> has
>> no tangency at the discontinuity, whereas a C1 surface does have 
>> tangency.
>
>> For example, a C1 surface could be made by joining a flat sheet of metal
> to
>> a curved sheet of metal, such that the flat and the curve are tangential
>> across the joint. Gouging can still occur where the sheets join,
> especially
>> if the curvature is too much for the machine tool.
>
> Again, BS.
>
>> C2 surfaces are, as you have probably guessed, the bee's knees. C2
> surfaces
>> have continuous curvature."
>
> Bees knees for who?  In what application?  Your definition doesn't help.
>
> You also posted this:
>
> "Generally, there are three kinds of boundary
> conditions in a surface model. C0 refers to surfaces
> that are just touching but could potentially have a
> shape corner or crease; possible manufacturing
> problems can result. C1 refers to a tangent (smooth)
> condition, and C2 to a consistent continuous tangent
> curvature. With C2, the boundary is imperceptible to
> the eye-you can't see were one surface begins and
> where on ends."
>
> Which gives a little bit better clue to C2, as it's listed in terms of eye
> perception.  That's what it's all about - visuals.
>
> Note that there is often discussion of C3 (or G3) or even higher curvature
> continuous joints.  What are they?  Well C2 or G2 are have continuous
> curvature at the joint, but the *rate of change of that curvature* is
> different on either side of the joint.  People (especially in the 
> automotive
> body surfacing field) *claim* that this can still be seen, so they want
> C3/G3, which the rate of change of the curvature at the joint is also 
> equal.
> Very few programs can do this, probably stuff like ICEM surf...  Maybe
> Alias.  Catia?
>
> Note also that these conditions can occur either at a joint between two
> discreet surfaces, or actually within a single surface - that is to say a
> single surface can be internally C0, C1, C2, C3, etc.  Although C0 
> (kinked)
> single surfaces are allowed in NURBS and BREP geometry, they are not often
> used - most programs like to split them into separate surfaces at the
> kink(s).  I can, however, make a single surface cube in Rhino (that's 
> right
> , only one surface), send it out via IGES to Surfcam, and mill it with a
> single cut operation.  If gouge checking is turned on, it will mill what 
> it
> can see and leave the rest alone.
>
> Lastly, the usefulness of C2 or higher joint conditions depends on the
> application.  Circular fillets are G1.  For mechanical parts, this is 
> fine -
> having C2 fillets would be ridiculous.  But for ID/appearance 
> applications,
> or perhaps things where air or fluid drag come into play, it can be
> important.
>
> Note, no quotes from anyone here... Except your posts.
>
> --Mitch
>
> 

Knowledge is a wonderful thing, gained by people willing to learn, shunned 
by morons!


"pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in message 
news:ct01n4$jd0$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> It must be the American way, I suppose, my tribe your tribe attitude :-S
> We don't have that here in my company, everyone is called by their first 
> name, no Mr sir or boss.
>
> Strange that you never got to try other demo's, was this your choice or 
> was you forced into using one package?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love Solidworks, (when it works), I have even just 
> sighed up for a 3 year deal with my VAR, But I am always looking for a 
> better way of doing things.
> I found that Solidworks was better, (for me), than Autocad for doing lots 
> of things what I want.
> Autocad still has it's place in my company and we still use it.
> The main problem I have with solidworks, is the slooowness of it, (could 
> be just me!).
> In a big company, this is easily to cover, but in a small company it can 
> break you.
>
> I would suggest that everyone should try other packages, you never know, 
> you might find a better one.
> Otherwise India's workforce might start taking more work from you, as they 
> have also started to take from us.
>
> Remember, Time is money and attitude is pants!
>
>
> "Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message 
> news:Xns95E736CCDB365bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
>> "pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in news:csvt76$i0e$1
>> @news.freedom2surf.net:
>>
>>> Two things I believe in, is free speech and not sticking my head in the
>>> sand.
>>> I thought you had those views in the USA, too?
>>
>> Uh, I thought I was exercising my right of free speech.
>>
>>> If replying to Jon makes me part of the VX team, so be it!
>>> Strange thing is, a free demo, was what got me in solid works!
>>> Free demos of Inventor and ProE convinced me, that they were not for me.
>>
>>
>> Well, good for you.
>> Only demo I ever got for a CAD system was from Dink3.
>>
>> Oh, you must be talkin bout those other demo's
>>
>> Bing
>>
>
> 

http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=1
88606&utag=

might help if still grappling with the definitions.

"pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in
news:ct01n4$jd0$1@news.freedom2surf.net: 

> It must be the American way, I suppose, my tribe your tribe attitude
> :-S We don't have that here in my company, everyone is called by their
> first name, no Mr sir or boss.

Whats up with this American way stuff?
I run my company. I make money, we build molds and my tribe calls me by 
name not Mr or sir.
 
> Strange that you never got to try other demo's, was this your choice
> or was you forced into using one package?

Nothing was forced on me.
I used Solid Edge for 2 years before SW. At the one company they had SW 
and I liked it so I migrated it to my present place and I've enjoyed much 
success with it.
 
> Don't get me wrong, I love Solidworks, (when it works), I have even
> just sighed up for a 3 year deal with my VAR, But I am always looking
> for a better way of doing things.
> I found that Solidworks was better, (for me), than Autocad for doing
> lots of things what I want.
> Autocad still has it's place in my company and we still use it.
> The main problem I have with solidworks, is the slooowness of it,
> (could be just me!).
> In a big company, this is easily to cover, but in a small company it
> can break you.

Well, I dont know about yer situation. Maybe you just aint using it or 
have it setup correctly. IMO Autocrap is just that, crap. They have never 
catered to us moldmakers till recently and even that I find a joke.
I feed 8 guys mold designs every month and they are busy. A normal mold 
with slides takes me about a week to design. Hydraulics, 3 plates, hot 
runners etc maybe a week and a half. I dont see how it is slow. There are 
some quirks with the latest release that I dont like, but its not a major 
issue to me.
 
> I would suggest that everyone should try other packages, you never
> know, you might find a better one.
> Otherwise India's workforce might start taking more work from you, as
> they have also started to take from us.

And I would suggest that people quit wasting their time demoing every 
piece of software around and not producing anything. I would suggest that 
they actually use a piece of software to like actually make something for 
a change.

Its a dirty job and I reckon somebody has to do it, but I aint got time 
for it.

Bing

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:14:33 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>A C1 surface has one or more changes in curvature that could cause serious
>problems to the cutter of a machine tool. For example, the cutter could
>gouge into the metal surface when the curvature changes. 

  Again, this clearly shows that you are a total idiot, have no clues
at all and have NEVER used any of this stuff for CAD *OR* CAM.

  CLUE (The day's free one): A planar fillet tangent to two lines
is C1. Such are machined by even novice CNC programmers
(You are not even one of those, quite clearly) and designed
quite easily (you are no designer either).

  Anyone still think that this idiot has clue #1?
-- 
Cliff

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:14:33 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>C2 surfaces are, as you have probably guessed, the bee's knees. C2 surfaces
>have continuous curvature."

  You just copied/stole that and have no idea what it means or if it's
even remotely correct.
  Idiot.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:48:03 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>> C2 surfaces are, as you have probably guessed, the bee's knees. C2
>surfaces
>> have continuous curvature."
>
>Bees knees for who?  In what application?  Your definition doesn't help.
>
>You also posted this:
>
>"Generally, there are three kinds of boundary
>conditions in a surface model. 

  "Boundary conditions"? LMAO !!!

  And only THREE?

>C0 refers to surfaces
>that are just touching but could potentially have a
>shape corner or crease; possible manufacturing
>problems can result. C1 refers to a tangent (smooth)
>condition, and C2 to a consistent continuous tangent
>curvature. With C2, the boundary is imperceptible to
>the eye-you can't see were one surface begins and
>where on ends."
>
>Which gives a little bit better clue to C2, as it's listed in terms of eye
>perception.  That's what it's all about - visuals.

  Well, from a *styling* point of view, that's probably important.
  But it's not what it means.

>Note that there is often discussion of C3 (or G3) or even higher curvature
>continuous joints.  

  Need there be "joints"?
  Many types of surfaces used to have patches <G>.
  AFAIK They still do.

>What are they?  Well C2 or G2 are have continuous
>curvature at the joint, but the *rate of change of that curvature* is
>different on either side of the joint.  People (especially in the automotive
>body surfacing field) *claim* that this can still be seen, so they want
>C3/G3, which the rate of change of the curvature at the joint is also equal.
>Very few programs can do this, probably stuff like ICEM surf...  Maybe
>Alias.  Catia?

  CN/GN ...... what's the maximum exponent of the polynomial supported
by the system for surfaces?
  IIRC Some have up to degree 17 or so. That would support C16/G16
or so surfaces, right?

  BTW, Ask the idiot about his surface directions <VBG>. He's hugely
confused & probably thinking in 2D planar terms. Or the person he
copied the stuff from (it's not his as he has no clues) was.

  LOL ... Poor jb's just so very clueless (but more than happy to lie
in any case, as always).
-- 
Cliff 

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:31:00 -0000, "pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com>
wrote:

>Knowledge is a wonderful thing, gained by people willing to learn, shunned 
>by morons!

  I see you have met jb <G>.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
<jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>might help if still grappling with the definitions.


http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20&key=jon_banquer&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&search_sort=score
  

http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&search_match=&search_sort=score

  Isn't jb banned there still?
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:23:17 GMT, Bing <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote:

>Only demo I ever got for a CAD system was from Dink3.

  IIRC I tried that at one time.
  All it ever did was crash and corrupt .....
-- 
Cliff

Ran out of gas before all my brain cells were killed.  Still killed
enough to make further discourse with JB seem like a worthwhile effort.

Quote JB:
"C2 means that the tangent direction and the curvature of the surfaces
are
the same and like I said... VX can do this"

Well, gee-whiz, Jon.  You shoulda said so in the first place.

Better stick to the conventional wisdom: Debating with JB and Cliff is
like running in the Special Olympics.  No matter who wins, everyone
looks retarded.  I should know better than to get between married
couples, anyhow.

> >Which gives a little bit better clue to C2, as it's listed in terms of
eye
> >perception.  That's what it's all about - visuals.
>
>   Well, from a *styling* point of view, that's probably important.
>   But it's not what it means.

I know there is an underlying mathematical definition for these conditions,
but most people here are not mathematicians or programmers, they are simply
users like myself, and they want to understand what these conditions mean in
therms of day to day applications - i.e. "Why is a curvature continuous
"joint" advantageous or not, where should I consider using these kinds of
tools?"

> >Note that there is often discussion of C3 (or G3) or even higher
curvature
> >continuous joints.
>
>   Need there be "joints"?
>   Many types of surfaces used to have patches <G>.
>   AFAIK They still do.

Yes, there need be joints, as it's not practical or desirable to build a
car, for example, out of one single surface...  Beware of using "Patch" it's
a bit like "billet"... means different things to different people...

> >What are they?  Well C2 or G2 are have continuous
> >curvature at the joint, but the *rate of change of that curvature* is
> >different on either side of the joint.  People (especially in the
automotive
> >body surfacing field) *claim* that this can still be seen, so they want
> >C3/G3, which the rate of change of the curvature at the joint is also
equal.
> >Very few programs can do this, probably stuff like ICEM surf...  Maybe
> >Alias.  Catia?
>
>   CN/GN ...... what's the maximum exponent of the polynomial supported
> by the system for surfaces?
>   IIRC Some have up to degree 17 or so. That would support C16/G16
> or so surfaces, right?

Yep.  But the question is why?  Aside from some esoteric application where a
degree 17 surface might theoretically be needed, most everyday things can
probably be designed with degree 1, 2, 3, and 5 surfaces.

--Mitch

>   Isn't jb banned there still?

Not as far as I know.  He's always welcome to contribute, as long as he's
civil.  Obviously, posting long rants about how bad Rhino is compared to
this or that other program on a Rhino sponsored ng populated by Rhino
fanatics is not going to win him any popularity contests...  A little like
going into (insert your favorite ethnic neighborhood here) and shouting
(insert your favorite ethnic slur here) at the top of your lungs...

--Mitch

On 23 Jan 2005 06:15:16 -0800, "That70sTick" <rol4@liquidschwarz.com>
wrote:

>Ran out of gas before all my brain cells were killed.  Still killed
>enough to make further discourse with JB seem like a worthwhile effort.
>
>Quote JB:
>"C2 means that the tangent direction and the curvature of the surfaces
>are
>the same and like I said... VX can do this"
>
>Well, gee-whiz, Jon.  You shoulda said so in the first place.
>
>Better stick to the conventional wisdom: Debating with JB and Cliff is
>like running in the Special Olympics.  No matter who wins, everyone
>looks retarded.  I should know better than to get between married
>couples, anyhow.

  Poor jb has no clues what it would actually mean if it was correct.
  OTOH He's just copying that stuff from what someone else once
said and has no clues what it's about.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:16:49 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>
>> >Which gives a little bit better clue to C2, as it's listed in terms of
>eye
>> >perception.  That's what it's all about - visuals.
>>
>>   Well, from a *styling* point of view, that's probably important.
>>   But it's not what it means.
>
>I know there is an underlying mathematical definition for these conditions,
>but most people here are not mathematicians or programmers, they are simply
>users like myself, and they want to understand what these conditions mean in
>therms of day to day applications - i.e. "Why is a curvature continuous
>"joint" advantageous or not, where should I consider using these kinds of
>tools?"

  Consider a surface of degree 3 that has 100 X 100 surface control
points .... how many patches?
  What if you instead use 4 surfaces of, say, 50 X 50 points & degree
3? Degree 17? 

>> >Note that there is often discussion of C3 (or G3) or even higher
>curvature
>> >continuous joints.
>>
>>   Need there be "joints"?
>>   Many types of surfaces used to have patches <G>.
>>   AFAIK They still do.
>
>Yes, there need be joints, as it's not practical or desirable to build a
>car, for example, out of one single surface...  Beware of using "Patch" it's
>a bit like "billet"... means different things to different people...

  Perhaps we should ask jb <G>.

>> >What are they?  Well C2 or G2 are have continuous
>> >curvature at the joint, but the *rate of change of that curvature* is
>> >different on either side of the joint.  People (especially in the
>automotive
>> >body surfacing field) *claim* that this can still be seen, so they want
>> >C3/G3, which the rate of change of the curvature at the joint is also
>equal.
>> >Very few programs can do this, probably stuff like ICEM surf...  Maybe
>> >Alias.  Catia?
>>
>>   CN/GN ...... what's the maximum exponent of the polynomial supported
>> by the system for surfaces?
>>   IIRC Some have up to degree 17 or so. That would support C16/G16
>> or so surfaces, right?
>
>Yep.  But the question is why?  Aside from some esoteric application where a
>degree 17 surface might theoretically be needed, most everyday things can
>probably be designed with degree 1, 2, 3, and 5 surfaces.

  As the degree increases so does the compute time to evaluate it.
  But so does one's control over it.

  Cubics are a fairly fast compromise.
  But what happens if your system only supports cubics but your
data is degree 17 from system XYZ?
  Do you get banqueritus?

  BTW, Your underlying surface may be of degree 17 or whatever
but your surface *vsualized* as a cubic or polygon mesh.

  What you *see* on the screen is not always what the surface 
actually is. Or where.
  Knowing this solves some CNC (and other) "verification" issues <G>.
-- 
Cliff

>   Consider a surface of degree 3 that has 100 X 100 surface control
> points .... how many patches?

Why is that important?  If it's "a" surface, it's considered as one entity
in most programs, and manipulated as such...

>   What if you instead use 4 surfaces of, say, 50 X 50 points & degree
> 3? Degree 17?

The problem then becomes how to maintain the correct relationship between
the surfaces when the object is manipulated (streched, twisted, etc.)

<snip>

>   BTW, Your underlying surface may be of degree 17 or whatever
> but your surface *vsualized* as a cubic or polygon mesh.
>
>   What you *see* on the screen is not always what the surface
> actually is. Or where.

Yep.

>   Knowing this solves some CNC (and other) "verification" issues <G>.

Yep.  BTW (another can o'worms about to be opened here), a large number of
CAM programs produce their 3D toolpaths using projections onto polygon
meshes made from the underlying surfaces...
--
Cheers,

--Mitch

Right, I can see the differences here, you are involved in making just 
moulds, where I have to design and have to know about:-
worldwide standards and pressure directives
Stress analysis
Sheetmetal
Engineering
Microprocessors
Circuit board and wiring layouts
Pipework
Hydraulics
Workshop manuals
Operating manuals
Service parts and manuals
Sales literature
Basically everything from the idea to the finished working product, sales 
department and then on to the servicing side.
All this with one sidekick!
Gee, must be great, just to have one job!
Blimey, I did't realize I done that much  :-O, I must ask for another pay 
rise :-P


"Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message 
news:Xns95E752B576E28bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
> "pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in
> news:ct01n4$jd0$1@news.freedom2surf.net:
>
>> It must be the American way, I suppose, my tribe your tribe attitude
>> :-S We don't have that here in my company, everyone is called by their
>> first name, no Mr sir or boss.
>
> Whats up with this American way stuff?
> I run my company. I make money, we build molds and my tribe calls me by
> name not Mr or sir.
>
>> Strange that you never got to try other demo's, was this your choice
>> or was you forced into using one package?
>
> Nothing was forced on me.
> I used Solid Edge for 2 years before SW. At the one company they had SW
> and I liked it so I migrated it to my present place and I've enjoyed much
> success with it.
>
>> Don't get me wrong, I love Solidworks, (when it works), I have even
>> just sighed up for a 3 year deal with my VAR, But I am always looking
>> for a better way of doing things.
>> I found that Solidworks was better, (for me), than Autocad for doing
>> lots of things what I want.
>> Autocad still has it's place in my company and we still use it.
>> The main problem I have with solidworks, is the slooowness of it,
>> (could be just me!).
>> In a big company, this is easily to cover, but in a small company it
>> can break you.
>
> Well, I dont know about yer situation. Maybe you just aint using it or
> have it setup correctly. IMO Autocrap is just that, crap. They have never
> catered to us moldmakers till recently and even that I find a joke.
> I feed 8 guys mold designs every month and they are busy. A normal mold
> with slides takes me about a week to design. Hydraulics, 3 plates, hot
> runners etc maybe a week and a half. I dont see how it is slow. There are
> some quirks with the latest release that I dont like, but its not a major
> issue to me.
>
>> I would suggest that everyone should try other packages, you never
>> know, you might find a better one.
>> Otherwise India's workforce might start taking more work from you, as
>> they have also started to take from us.
>
> And I would suggest that people quit wasting their time demoing every
> piece of software around and not producing anything. I would suggest that
> they actually use a piece of software to like actually make something for
> a change.
>
> Its a dirty job and I reckon somebody has to do it, but I aint got time
> for it.
>
> Bing
> 

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message news:41f3c79b_1@news.bluewin.ch...
>
>>   Consider a surface of degree 3 that has 100 X 100 surface control
>> points .... how many patches?
>
> Why is that important?  If it's "a" surface, it's considered as one entity
> in most programs, and manipulated as such...
>

A rough curve, in the extreme may effectively fill the surface on
which it lies.  Same logic applies to extremely convoluted surfaces
onto 3D. Then the 'roughness' can be thought as increasing the
dimension of the object.

http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/complex/tutorials/tutorial3.html
Fractal dimension
The notion of "fractional dimension" provides a way to measure how
rough fractal curves are. We normally consider lines to have a dimension of 1,
surfaces a dimension of 2 and solids a dimension of 3. However, a rough curve
(say) wanders around on a surface; in the extreme it may be so rough that it
effectively fills the surface on which it lies. Very convoluted surfaces,
such as a tree's foliage or the internal surfaces of lungs, may effectively
be three-dimensional structures. We can therefore think of roughness as an
increase in dimension: a rough curve has a dimension between 1 and 2, and a
rough surface has a dimension somewhere between 2 and 3. The dimension of a
fractal curve is a number that characterizes the way in which the measured
length between given points increases as scale decreases. Whilst the
topological dimension of a line is always 1 and that of a surface always 2,
the fractal dimension may be any real number between 1 and 2. The fractal
dimension D is defined by

"Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message news:vua7v0t816hvuh43a4lvp6l1p2mko2rac9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
> <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>might help if still grappling with the definitions.
>
>
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20&key=jon_banquer&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&search_sort=score
>
>
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>
>  Isn't jb banned there still?
> -- 

Remember Constance ?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dmode=source 

"John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
news:35i67aF4o2nruU1@individual.net...
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vua7v0t816hvuh43a4lvp6l1p2mko2rac9@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
> > <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>might help if still grappling with the definitions.
> >
> >
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
&key=jon_banquer&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&sear
ch_sort=score
> >
> >
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
> >
> >  Isn't jb banned there still?
> > --
>
> Remember Constance ?
>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
ode=source
>
>

Currently serving time in jail (again) in Flordia, John. The reason you felt
this was neccessary to bring up was ?

jon

John Scheldroup wrote:
> Remember Constance ?
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dmode=source

Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's still
not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point out
it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.

"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> John Scheldroup wrote:
> > Remember Constance ?
> >
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
ode=source
>
> Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's still
> not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point out
> it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.

Her mental illness is now verifiable. That she is currenlty serving
time(again) in jail in Florida is verifiable. That she admitted to lying
might be verifiable if the person she admitted it to wants to post
about it.... and that's his choice not mine.

jon

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f3b382_3@news.bluewin.ch...
>
> >   Isn't jb banned there still?
>
> Not as far as I know.  He's always welcome to contribute, as long as he's
> civil.  Obviously, posting long rants about how bad Rhino is compared to
> this or that other program on a Rhino sponsored ng populated by Rhino
> fanatics is not going to win him any popularity contests...  A little like
> going into (insert your favorite ethnic neighborhood here) and shouting
> (insert your favorite ethnic slur here) at the top of your lungs...
>
> --Mitch
>
>

Mitch,

IMO the Rhino newsgroup is a product loyalist newsgroup. Lets remove me
from the picture for one moment and try and look at this objectively.

Michael Gailey has used the product (Rhino) for years. He was sick of
paying and paying for upgrades and he has still has not gotten decent
filleting in Rhino after all these years.

What do the Rhino loyalists in McNeel's newsgroup do.... bash him
for asking for something so outrageous as decent filleting. At one point,
Michael Gailey had a ton of stuff that he did in Rhino on his website. He
has since removed it.

I really don't want any part of the mentality that exists at McNeel and that
they foster in their newsgroup *but even more important* I don't feel that
one should have to jump between a surface and a solid modeler. I think one
program with a transparent approach to using surface and solid tools is the
way to go and I have said this in both of these newsgroups for many years
now.

I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn something
that I don't know now.

jon

"wry&dry" <clive.kennard(removethis)@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:YgFId.144687$Xk.105224@pd7tw3no...
> OK, last time I checked this was a SolidWorks NG, people posting questions
> about how to work with SolidWorks and all its inherent limitations. JON,
> FUCK OFF with all your uniseamed inbred modelling software If VX is sooooo
> gooood why the fuck do you need to poach solidworks users from this NG?
>
> VX a "uniform inbred modelling solution" date yer daughter...
>
> Solidworks is great, I love it. I dont give a shit about  VX or VD or
> whatever you are pushing, I want to listen to knowedgeable  solidworks
users
> and benefit from their knowledge, if you had at least the slighest fucking
> clue you would listen quietly and develop your second rate software so it
> might stand a chance of competing in the MCAD market, last i checked VX
was
> a dot on the horizon compared to SWX or IV.
>
> Wanker
>
>
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35gaonF4l3sqmU1@individual.net...
> >
>
http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/solidworks/select/cadcamnet_proe_vs_solidw
> > orks.htm
> >
> > "Although SolidWorks enables adjacent lofted surfaces to be tangent,
> > it can't assure continuous curvature (C2) between two surfaces"
> >
> > Is this fixed in SolidWorks 2005 ?
> >
> > No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX.
> >
> > jon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

I'm not hard to shut up. All you have to do is show me / describe to me
the tools in SolidWorks or Inventor or ? that do what can be done in
VX.

Is there any reason you *STILL* can't name them ? :>)

jon

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:35i8j9F4kgn36U1@individual.net...
>
> "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> news:35i67aF4o2nruU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:vua7v0t816hvuh43a4lvp6l1p2mko2rac9@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
>> > <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> &key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>> >
>> >  Isn't jb banned there still?
>> > --
>>
>> Remember Constance ?
>>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
> ode=source
>>
>>
>
> Currently serving time in jail (again) in Flordia, John. The reason you felt
> this was neccessary to bring up was ?
>

Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
that claims to be your wife Jon

FYI, Link above by Cliff,

http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&search_match=&search_sort=score

7th down

"Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=148308&utag=

Frankly, I was kind of appalled to read it. True or not true Jon?

Serving time in jail, with comments that should have not been
broadcast to the public forum that I'll agree, but is it correct to say
that this persons statements made about you by a person that claims
to be your wife, would in fact discredit this person from ever telling
the truth at all, is that what you are saying Jon ?

John

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f3b1d7_3@news.bluewin.ch...
>
> > >Which gives a little bit better clue to C2, as it's listed in terms of
> eye
> > >perception.  That's what it's all about - visuals.
> >
> >   Well, from a *styling* point of view, that's probably important.
> >   But it's not what it means.
>
> I know there is an underlying mathematical definition for these
conditions,
> but most people here are not mathematicians or programmers, they are
simply
> users like myself, and they want to understand what these conditions mean
in
> therms of day to day applications - i.e. "Why is a curvature continuous
> "joint" advantageous or not, where should I consider using these kinds of
> tools?"
>
> > >Note that there is often discussion of C3 (or G3) or even higher
> curvature
> > >continuous joints.
> >
> >   Need there be "joints"?
> >   Many types of surfaces used to have patches <G>.
> >   AFAIK They still do.
>
> Yes, there need be joints, as it's not practical or desirable to build a
> car, for example, out of one single surface...  Beware of using "Patch"
it's
> a bit like "billet"... means different things to different people...
>
> > >What are they?  Well C2 or G2 are have continuous
> > >curvature at the joint, but the *rate of change of that curvature* is
> > >different on either side of the joint.  People (especially in the
> automotive
> > >body surfacing field) *claim* that this can still be seen, so they want
> > >C3/G3, which the rate of change of the curvature at the joint is also
> equal.
> > >Very few programs can do this, probably stuff like ICEM surf...  Maybe
> > >Alias.  Catia?
> >
> >   CN/GN ...... what's the maximum exponent of the polynomial supported
> > by the system for surfaces?
> >   IIRC Some have up to degree 17 or so. That would support C16/G16
> > or so surfaces, right?
>
> Yep.  But the question is why?  Aside from some esoteric application where
a
> degree 17 surface might theoretically be needed, most everyday things can
> probably be designed with degree 1, 2, 3, and 5 surfaces.
>
> --Mitch
>
>

"... they are simply users like myself, and they want to understand what
these conditions mean in therms of day to day applications - i.e. "Why is a
curvature continuous "joint" advantageous or not, where should I consider
using these kinds of tools?"

Agreed but then "The Virus" has no concept of practicality. An example would
be his inabilty to understand what goes on in a small job shop. How many
people who actually work in small job shops have pointed this out to "The
Virus" now ?

Bill Roberto
Bottlebob
Michael Gailey
Steve Mackay
Michael At Tailgate
Jon Baker
..... The list goes on and on.

The world has radically changed from "The Virus" days of working for huge
companies (about a year is all he could ever last even at a big company in
their heyday) and "The Virus" has never been able to deal with how the
world has changed.

"The Virus" is a perfect example of why most small job shops don't want
anything to do with those who worked for a big company for many years....
they need to get product out the door.

It's better, faster and easier tools that are needed in what is now an
extremely difficult and hostile manufacting climate for U.S. based companies
that don't have some sort of lock or monoploy on their market.

I would argue that VX is one of those tools if one needs to create and
modify cosmetically pleasing products quicky.

jon

"John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
news:35icifF46hapcU1@individual.net...
>
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35i8j9F4kgn36U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > news:35i67aF4o2nruU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:vua7v0t816hvuh43a4lvp6l1p2mko2rac9@4ax.com...
> >> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
> >> > <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> >
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> > ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
> >> >
> >> >  Isn't jb banned there still?
> >> > --
> >>
> >> Remember Constance ?
> >>
> >
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
> > ode=source
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Currently serving time in jail (again) in Flordia, John. The reason you
felt
> > this was neccessary to bring up was ?
> >
>
> Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
> that claims to be your wife Jon
>
> FYI, Link above by Cliff,
>
>
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>
> 7th down
>
> "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
>
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=14
8308&utag=
>
> Frankly, I was kind of appalled to read it. True or not true Jon?
>
> Serving time in jail, with comments that should have not been
> broadcast to the public forum that I'll agree, but is it correct to say
> that this persons statements made about you by a person that claims
> to be your wife, would in fact discredit this person from ever telling
> the truth at all, is that what you are saying Jon ?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
that claims to be your wife Jon"

They were comments made by someone who have never taken her
metal condition seriously and it has caused her the inability to lead
any kind of a normal life.

She is now being treated while she is serving time in jail in Florida.
Whether she continues treatement when she gets out is another story.

Her track record in this area is not good and things have gotten much
worse for her in the last four years living in Florida.

Can you tell us why anything to do with Connie is relevent in a thread on
SolidWorks 2005 Surface Tangency ?

jon

"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> John Scheldroup wrote:
> > Remember Constance ?
> >
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
ode=source
>
> Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's still
> not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point out
> it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.

Seems to me like it's pretty much on par for this newsgroup and it's
certainly old ground for alt.machines.cnc.

How soon before the incident that I had with a Vero rep at Westec comes up
and gets rehashed yet again ?

What I can't figure out is how this relates in anyway to SolidWorks 2005
Surface Tangency.

I can see where it's a deflection effort to discredit me and get the focus
off what the needed tools for SolidWorks are and that other programs
don't suffer from this limitation.

jon

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:49:37 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>
>>   Consider a surface of degree 3 that has 100 X 100 surface control
>> points .... how many patches?
>
>Why is that important?  If it's "a" surface, it's considered as one entity
>in most programs, and manipulated as such...

  If "each surface" is made of patches .... it's not like a group of
entities BTW. It's all one entity (has only one entity pointer/index)
in the part database structure.

  Where's jb when we need him <g>?

>>   What if you instead use 4 surfaces of, say, 50 X 50 points & degree
>> 3? Degree 17?
>
>The problem then becomes how to maintain the correct relationship between
>the surfaces when the object is manipulated (streched, twisted, etc.)

  How so? IF you change even one control point on one surface
you can lose all "relationships" with adjacent surfaces.

  Think of an arc tangent to two lines (just to give jb a headache)
and move one of it's controlling points (arcs can also be defined by 3
points, right?) .... 

><snip>
>
>>   BTW, Your underlying surface may be of degree 17 or whatever
>> but your surface *vsualized* as a cubic or polygon mesh.
>>
>>   What you *see* on the screen is not always what the surface
>> actually is. Or where.
>
>Yep.

  Was that a yes or a no? (By now jb's head is taffy inside.)

>>   Knowing this solves some CNC (and other) "verification" issues <G>.
>
>Yep.  BTW (another can o'worms about to be opened here), a large number of
>CAM programs produce their 3D toolpaths using projections onto polygon
>meshes made from the underlying surfaces...

  And they scale well? LOL ....
  Temp files are temp files ... ask jb to explain the math & logic
<G>.
-- 
Cliff

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:35ifchF4n5nm6U1@individual.net...
>
> "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> news:35icifF46hapcU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35i8j9F4kgn36U1@individual.net...
>> >
>> > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
>> > news:35i67aF4o2nruU1@individual.net...
>> >>
>> >> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > news:vua7v0t816hvuh43a4lvp6l1p2mko2rac9@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
>> >> > <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
>> >
> &key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
>> > ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>> >> >
>> >> >  Isn't jb banned there still?
>> >> > --
>> >>
>> >> Remember Constance ?
>> >>
>> >
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
>> > ode=source
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Currently serving time in jail (again) in Flordia, John. The reason you
> felt
>> > this was neccessary to bring up was ?
>> >
>>
>> Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
>> that claims to be your wife Jon
>>
>> FYI, Link above by Cliff,
>>
>>
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> &key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>>
>> 7th down
>>
>> "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
>>
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=14
> 8308&utag=
>>
>> Frankly, I was kind of appalled to read it. True or not true Jon?
>>
>> Serving time in jail, with comments that should have not been
>> broadcast to the public forum that I'll agree, but is it correct to say
>> that this persons statements made about you by a person that claims
>> to be your wife, would in fact discredit this person from ever telling
>> the truth at all, is that what you are saying Jon ?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>
> "Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
> that claims to be your wife Jon"
>
> They were comments made by someone who have never taken her
> metal condition seriously and it has caused her the inability to lead
> any kind of a normal life.
>
> She is now being treated while she is serving time in jail in Florida.
> Whether she continues treatement when she gets out is another story.
>
> Her track record in this area is not good and things have gotten much
> worse for her in the last four years living in Florida.
>
> Can you tell us why anything to do with Connie is relevent in a thread on
> SolidWorks 2005 Surface Tangency ?
>
> jon
>
>

Jon I posted a question to Cliff regarding his links, mind if I read
through them.? Actually, after reading it I was curious with what
happened to your wife, that thread will be five years old soon,
anyways it brings up another point, if you are that alarmed about it,
I suggest you find the means to have it removed from the server.

Can anyone help Jon find those answers ?

It might help if you just came out and said NO way John that's bullshit!,
my wife and I we were separated, Constance is on medication for
treatment of mental illness. In my opinion, turning her into a
paranoid perpetual liar 99 percent of the time.

I suppose if anyone were malicious enough they could buy public
records Jon Banquer to cause discredit, then post them to the usenet.

John

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:11:32 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Yep.  But the question is why?  Aside from some esoteric application where
>a
>> degree 17 surface might theoretically be needed, most everyday things can
>> probably be designed with degree 1, 2, 3, and 5 surfaces.
>>
>> --Mitch
>>
>>
>
>"... they are simply users like myself, and they want to understand what
>these conditions mean in therms of day to day applications - i.e. "Why is a
>curvature continuous "joint" advantageous or not, where should I consider
>using these kinds of tools?"
>
>Agreed but then "The Virus" has no concept of practicality. An example would
>be his inabilty to understand what goes on in a small job shop. How many
>people who actually work in small job shops have pointed this out to "The
>Virus" now ?
>
>Bill Roberto
>Bottlebob
>Michael Gailey
>Steve Mackay
>Michael At Tailgate
>Jon Baker
>.... The list goes on and on.
>
>The world has radically changed from "The Virus" days of working for huge
>companies (about a year is all he could ever last even at a big company in
>their heyday) and "The Virus" has never been able to deal with how the
>world has changed.
>
>"The Virus" is a perfect example of why most small job shops don't want
>anything to do with those who worked for a big company for many years....
>they need to get product out the door.
>
>It's better, faster and easier tools that are needed in what is now an
>extremely difficult and hostile manufacting climate for U.S. based companies
>that don't have some sort of lock or monoploy on their market.
>
>I would argue that VX is one of those tools if one needs to create and
>modify cosmetically pleasing products quicky.

  Translation: jb has no clue and his pretense of actually knowing 
anything about CAD, CAD/CAM, CAM, design, engineering or
machining, much less being any sort of expert at any of it,
just fell apart again <VBSEG>.
-- 
Cliff

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f3c79b_1@news.bluewin.ch...
>
> >   Consider a surface of degree 3 that has 100 X 100 surface control
> > points .... how many patches?
>
> Why is that important?  If it's "a" surface, it's considered as one entity
> in most programs, and manipulated as such...
>
> >   What if you instead use 4 surfaces of, say, 50 X 50 points & degree
> > 3? Degree 17?
>
> The problem then becomes how to maintain the correct relationship between
> the surfaces when the object is manipulated (streched, twisted, etc.)
>
> <snip>
>
> >   BTW, Your underlying surface may be of degree 17 or whatever
> > but your surface *vsualized* as a cubic or polygon mesh.
> >
> >   What you *see* on the screen is not always what the surface
> > actually is. Or where.
>
> Yep.
>
> >   Knowing this solves some CNC (and other) "verification" issues <G>.
>
> Yep.  BTW (another can o'worms about to be opened here), a large number of
> CAM programs produce their 3D toolpaths using projections onto polygon
> meshes made from the underlying surfaces...
> --
> Cheers,
>
> --Mitch
>
>

> Yep.  BTW (another can o'worms about to be opened here), a large number of
> CAM programs produce their 3D toolpaths using projections onto polygon
> meshes made from the underlying surfaces...

How is it a "can o'worms" when the user of the program has no idea how the
internal 3D surfacing toolpath really works ?

I do remember reading something from a HyperMill VAR years ago which said
that HyperMill was superior to DelCAM PowerMill because it used triangles to
calculate the toolpath and that this was somehow more accurate.

I think the only way to tell would be to cut a two parts with similar 3D
surfacing toolpath routines and compare the machining time of each and
measure the accuracy of the cut part. I guess one could also compare the 3D
surfacing toolpath calculation times as well to see which one was faster.

In any case, I think this thread has not got "The Virus" that Bill Roberto
described and we are now off in contemplate your navel land.

jon

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Michael Gailey has used the product (Rhino) for years. He was sick of
>paying and paying for upgrades and he has still has not gotten decent
>filleting in Rhino after all these years.

  Anyone want to look up jb's many posts extolling Rhino
as the best thing since sliced bread?

  LMAO !!!!
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>perhaps learn something that I don't know now.

  1+1=2

HTH
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:34:15 -0600, "John Scheldroup"
<jschel@earthsite.org> wrote:

>7th down

  "Jon Banquer is a joke"

  I've never said otherwise <G>.
-- 
Cliff

> Mitch,
>
> IMO the Rhino newsgroup is a product loyalist newsgroup. Lets remove me
> from the picture for one moment and try and look at this objectively.
>
> Michael Gailey has used the product (Rhino) for years. He was sick of
> paying and paying for upgrades and he has still has not gotten decent
> filleting in Rhino after all these years.

"paying and paying for upgrades"  That's a hoot.  I can tell you exactly how
much Michael or anyone else had to pay for upgrades.  If Michael bought
Rhino in 1998 when it hit the market, it cost $800 (per seat).  An upgrade
to 1.1 cost $300 IIRC.  An upgrade to 2.0 cost $0 (it was free). An upgrade
to 3.0 cost $300.  So, from 1998 to 2005, "paying and paying for upgrades"
amounts to twice in the amount of $600 per seat - around $100 a year.  That
ain't very expensive.

>
> What do the Rhino loyalists in McNeel's newsgroup do.... bash him
> for asking for something so outrageous as decent filleting. At one point,
> Michael Gailey had a ton of stuff that he did in Rhino on his website. He
> has since removed it.

Nobody's contesting the fact that Rhino's filleting is not one of it's
strongest points.  It wasn't *what* Michael asked for (as I have asked
repeatedly for the same thing, and I've never gotten bashed for it), it was
*how*.  In that way, his approach is a lot like yours, drop in and start
ranting.  In addition he has some issues with a couple of members of the
Rhino group (a lot like you have here) and thus, you can imagine he got
plenty of flak.  I'm sorry it worked out that way, but there's nothing I can
do about that.  So be it.

Anyway, Michael's found something else that works better for him, fine.  I
have no problem with that.  Neither with you.

> I really don't want any part of the mentality that exists at McNeel and
that
> they foster in their newsgroup

Nobody's forcing you to participate...  There seem to be a host of other
Rhino forums out there, even on cadchat, right next to yours, so you can go
post over there if you feel like.  I don't see you posting on the official
VX hosted user forums - is that too much of a "product loyalist" forum for
you as well?

> *but even more important* I don't feel that
> one should have to jump between a surface and a solid modeler. I think one
> program with a transparent approach to using surface and solid tools is
the
> way to go and I have said this in both of these newsgroups for many years
> now.

Fine, that's your way of going about it and you're welcome to it.
Personally, I hope Rhino doesn't try to become another MCAD app like VX or
SW or ProE or whathaveyou.  There's no need for that, and that market niche
is filled. I hope Rhino continues to march to the beat of a different
drummer, and stays the Swiss Army Knife of 3D CAD.  Let me know when more
cars, boats, buildings, jewelry, shoes, CG for films, etc. are being
designed with VX than with Rhino...

Personally, in my job I just don't need the concept of parametric history
tree based modelers (sorry SW guys).  Why? There's too much baggage
associated with it.  I prefer a direct real-time approach where you can grab
a part of the model and just move it as you like.  No sketches to go into
and edit, no regenerations.  But hey, those are just my personal
preferences, and I wouldn't pretend to say what's right for you.

> I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
> fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn something
> that I don't know now.

I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now I'm
sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into VX (or
maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino, Vellum Argon,
and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm sure you can
fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have import
settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.

I also have a much bigger file (0.5 meg) that Rhino actually fillets better
than VX.  But I'm also sure there will be plenty of objects that VX will
fillet better than Rhino.  C'est la vie...
--
Cheers,

--Mitch

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:26:44 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Remember Constance ?
>>
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
>ode=source
>>
>>
>
>Currently serving time in jail (again) in Flordia, John.

  He's probably wrong yet again.
  OTOH Nobody ever claimed he had a clue.

  The poor girl ... not even 5 feet tall ...... 

>The reason you felt
>this was neccessary to bring up was ?

  So you have the kids now? Paying the child support at long,
long last? Or still in hiding from lawyers?
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:20:50 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Can you tell us why anything to do with Connie is relevent in a thread on
>SolidWorks 2005 Surface Tangency ?

  You don't seem to know much about either?
-- 
Cliff

jon banquer wrote:
> 
> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> > > Remember Constance ?
> > >
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
> ode=source
> >
> > Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's still
> > not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point out
> > it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.
> 
> Her mental illness is now verifiable. That she is currenlty serving
> time(again) in jail in Florida is verifiable. That she admitted to lying
> might be verifiable if the person she admitted it to wants to post
> about it.... and that's his choice not mine.

To All:

	I have no idea why this old stuff is being brought up again... well yes
I do.  John S. what did you mean by "FYI, Link above by Cliff"?

	I was peripherally involved by talking to Constance on the phone while
she was living in Florida at the time of the alleged events in
question.  She later admitted to me that she had lied to me, the police,
and the newsgroup about what Jon did at the time.
	In my opinion, this obsession with attempting to discredit Jon because
of his opinions is getting out of control.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

>   If "each surface" is made of patches .... it's not like a group of
> entities BTW. It's all one entity (has only one entity pointer/index)
> in the part database structure.

I don't understand what you are getting at here - what are you calling
"patches"?

<snip>

> >
> >The problem then becomes how to maintain the correct relationship between
> >the surfaces when the object is manipulated (streched, twisted, etc.)
>
>   How so? IF you change even one control point on one surface
> you can lose all "relationships" with adjacent surfaces.

Perhaps - depends on the surface structure.  Remember, most NURBS geometry
is an approximation.  Surface edges are considered touching or tangent, etc.
if they are within a specified tolerance of each other.  You may well be
able to move control points in the middle of a surface and have the edges
stay within the defined (position, tangent, curvature) tolerance to the
adjacent surfaces.

--
Cheers,

--Mitch

"John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
news:35ihvnF4mrqjcU1@individual.net...
>
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35ifchF4n5nm6U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > news:35icifF46hapcU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> > news:35i8j9F4kgn36U1@individual.net...
> >> >
> >> > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> >> > news:35i67aF4o2nruU1@individual.net...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Cliff" <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:vua7v0t816hvuh43a4lvp6l1p2mko2rac9@4ax.com...
> >> >> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:55:36 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
> >> >> > <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> >> >
> >
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> >> > ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
> >> >> >
> >> >> >  Isn't jb banned there still?
> >> >> > --
> >> >>
> >> >> Remember Constance ?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
> >> > ode=source
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Currently serving time in jail (again) in Flordia, John. The reason
you
> > felt
> >> > this was neccessary to bring up was ?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
> >> that claims to be your wife Jon
> >>
> >> FYI, Link above by Cliff,
> >>
> >>
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> >
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> > ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
> >>
> >> 7th down
> >>
> >> "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
> >>
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=14
> > 8308&utag=
> >>
> >> Frankly, I was kind of appalled to read it. True or not true Jon?
> >>
> >> Serving time in jail, with comments that should have not been
> >> broadcast to the public forum that I'll agree, but is it correct to say
> >> that this persons statements made about you by a person that claims
> >> to be your wife, would in fact discredit this person from ever telling
> >> the truth at all, is that what you are saying Jon ?
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > "Those were some awefully eye opening statements made by someone
> > that claims to be your wife Jon"
> >
> > They were comments made by someone who have never taken her
> > metal condition seriously and it has caused her the inability to lead
> > any kind of a normal life.
> >
> > She is now being treated while she is serving time in jail in Florida.
> > Whether she continues treatement when she gets out is another story.
> >
> > Her track record in this area is not good and things have gotten much
> > worse for her in the last four years living in Florida.
> >
> > Can you tell us why anything to do with Connie is relevent in a thread
on
> > SolidWorks 2005 Surface Tangency ?
> >
> > jon
> >
> >
>
> Jon I posted a question to Cliff regarding his links, mind if I read
> through them.? Actually, after reading it I was curious with what
> happened to your wife, that thread will be five years old soon,
> anyways it brings up another point, if you are that alarmed about it,
> I suggest you find the means to have it removed from the server.
>
> Can anyone help Jon find those answers ?
>
> It might help if you just came out and said NO way John that's bullshit!,
> my wife and I we were separated, Constance is on medication for
> treatment of mental illness. In my opinion, turning her into a
> paranoid perpetual liar 99 percent of the time.
>
> I suppose if anyone were malicious enough they could buy public
> records Jon Banquer to cause discredit, then post them to the usenet.
>
> John
>
>

> Actually, after reading it I was curious with what
> happened to your wife, that thread will be five years old soon...

Currently serving time in jail in Florida. Her condition (untreated)
continued to get worse since she posted that because she doesn't take
her condition seriously. From what I can tell neither does "The Virus".

> anyways it brings up another point, if you are that alarmed about it,
> I suggest you find the means to have it removed from the server.

Why would I have it removed ? I didn't post it and it doesn't particularly
bother me now. At one point it did bother me.... it no longer does. In many
ways it probably has helped me to grow.

In someways it's a barometer the helps me decide what a
person is all about should they choose to believe it or use it
against me... sort of like if someone thinks that "The Virus" actually
knows something about machining parts in todays world or anything
about how a small job shop is run.... saves me a lot of time that I
might wish to invest in explaining something to that person or persons.

> It might help if you just came out and said NO way John that's bullshit!,
> my wife and I we were separated, Constance is on medication for
> treatment of mental illness. In my opinion, turning her into a
> paranoid perpetual liar 99 percent of the time.

Your entitled to your opinion, John. Connie has in many ways had and
I believe will continue to have a very hard life. I don't wish to make her
life any harder for her even if she did at that point, and may at another
point in the future, try and do everything in her power to distroy me. "The
Virus" basically does the same thing. How well has that worked ? :>)

At the current time I am holding all of Connie's worldly possessions for her
and she has given me Power Of Attorney.

jon

> I don't understand what you are getting at here - what are you calling
> "patches"?

Patch = surface
Surface (feature) = surface, quilt, polysurf

???  I think the terms are vendor specific or maybe Bezier terms(?),
predate NURBS.
Pro/E still refers to patches in a surface which means surface in a quilt
or polysurf.

"Jeff Howard" <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9WUId.3755$YD5.2626@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > I don't understand what you are getting at here - what are you calling
> > "patches"?
>
> Patch = surface
> Surface (feature) = surface, quilt, polysurf
>
> ???  I think the terms are vendor specific or maybe Bezier terms(?),
> predate NURBS.
> Pro/E still refers to patches in a surface which means surface in a quilt
> or polysurf.
>
>

Surface can also be a face in VX terms.

I also agree that many of the terms are vendor specific.

jon

"BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> jon banquer wrote:
>>
>> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
>> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
>> > John Scheldroup wrote:
>> > > Remember Constance ?
>> > >
>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
>> ode=source
>> >
>> > Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's still
>> > not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point out
>> > it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.
>>
>> Her mental illness is now verifiable. That she is currenlty serving
>> time(again) in jail in Florida is verifiable. That she admitted to lying
>> might be verifiable if the person she admitted it to wants to post
>> about it.... and that's his choice not mine.
>
> To All:
>
> I have no idea why this old stuff is being brought up again... well yes
> I do.  John S. what did you mean by "FYI, Link above by Cliff"?
>

Cliff posted:

http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_before=0&search_match=&search_sort=score

I read through the links at that page until I came upon:
- "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=148308&utag=

"Try this search: http://tinyurl.com/xgom (it's Jon Banquer's name and the word a$$h*le in
google groups) -- it comes up with FIVE PAGES of hits!!"

Lastly, we have good old google so I read through them, finally reaching the
fourth link from top subject entitled
"For everyone who knows Jon Banquer"

I become curious to ask a question to Cliff  Remember Constance ?
could I have emailed this response to Cliff, sure I could have, but
more importantly, whatever did happen to Constance, as in remember
whatever it was that provoked such an outburst, remember that Cliff?
so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.

Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.

John

> I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now I'm
> sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into VX (or
> maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino, Vellum
Argon,
> and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm sure you
can
> fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have import
> settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.

OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.
--
Cheers,

--Mitch

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f41fd9_3@news.bluewin.ch...
> > I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now I'm
> > sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into VX (or
> > maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino, Vellum
> Argon,
> > and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm sure you
> can
> > fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have import
> > settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>
> OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.
> --
> Cheers,
>
> --Mitch
>
>

My first name together with my last name at Yahoo.com

jon

"John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
>
> "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > jon banquer wrote:
> >>
> >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
> >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> >> > > Remember Constance ?
> so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
>
> Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.
>


John,
She changed her name to Vanessa Marie Semrow, moved to Rhinelander and got a
job pumping gas at a North Woods gas station and registering snowmobilers at
the local hotel. Today, she hangs with Donald Trump, Iman, and Britney
Spears.

Jon asked in one of his responses how any of this ought to have found it's
way into a thread about surfacing and SolidWorks.
It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
discussion either. I mean, what does something lethal to those subjected to
it have to do with SolidWorks? Should someone tell W that he should have
been looking in Florida and not Iraq?

It happens that certain lines get crossed occasionally in public forum's
like this that shouldn't. I am surprised to see that you have and I am
pretty sure you would like to jump back to the other side of the line here.
No prob, just do it. It does not take the resurrection of old garbage to
form an opinion or discern reality, and behaving this way demeans you, Jon's
behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.

-- 
             John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles          San Francisco
   www.machiningsolution.com

"pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:ct0hu8$oaa$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> Right, I can see the differences here, you are involved in making just
> moulds, where I have to design and have to know about:-
> worldwide standards and pressure directives
> Stress analysis
> Sheetmetal
> Engineering
> Microprocessors
> Circuit board and wiring layouts
> Pipework
> Hydraulics
> Workshop manuals
> Operating manuals
> Service parts and manuals
> Sales literature
> Basically everything from the idea to the finished working product, sales
> department and then on to the servicing side.
> All this with one sidekick!
> Gee, must be great, just to have one job!
> Blimey, I did't realize I done that much  :-O, I must ask for another pay
> rise :-P

It's been my experience that most moldmakers can only see the world
thru their eyes where everything has to relate to a mold. It gets really
old after awhile.

It's a lame argument to suggest one should just use SolidWorks and
live with it's severe limitations for lets say Industrial Design.

I would argue that SolidWorks is an exceptionally poor tool for
many types if Industrial Design.

jon

John Scheldroup wrote:
> 
 
> "Try this search: http://tinyurl.com/xgom (it's Jon Banquer's name and the word a$$h*le in
> google groups) -- it comes up with FIVE PAGES of hits!!"

John:

	"Jon Banquer" + asshole gets 65 hits.
	"Cliff Huprich" + asshole gets 105 hits.  
	"Bottlebob" + asshole gets 154 hits.

	So what do you think THAT proves?  Not much of anything, IMO.


--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:34:17 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>
>>   If "each surface" is made of patches .... it's not like a group of
>> entities BTW. It's all one entity (has only one entity pointer/index)
>> in the part database structure.
>
>I don't understand what you are getting at here - what are you calling
>"patches"?

  Consider the number of controlling points and the degree of the
interpolating polynomial(s).

><snip>
>
>> >
>> >The problem then becomes how to maintain the correct relationship between
>> >the surfaces when the object is manipulated (streched, twisted, etc.)
>>
>>   How so? IF you change even one control point on one surface
>> you can lose all "relationships" with adjacent surfaces.
>
>Perhaps - depends on the surface structure.  Remember, most NURBS geometry
>is an approximation.  

  In some cases. In others it's exact to the computational limits.
  An approximation of *what* though? It's what you have, right?

>Surface edges are considered touching or tangent, etc.
>if they are within a specified tolerance of each other.  

  Two surfaces can well have the exact same controlling points
on their edges (or even beyond them, in the case of trimmed
surfaces).

  I think that your tolerance issue may relate a bit more to the
kernel in a solids modeler <G>. Ask poor jb ....

>You may well be
>able to move control points in the middle of a surface and have the edges
>stay within the defined (position, tangent, curvature) tolerance to the
>adjacent surfaces.

  This depends entirely on the degree of the total surface considered
and the number of controlling points, in general.

  Wher's that expert, jb, on this? The self appointed "god of cadcam"?

  (I've been in this too long ....... )
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:45:41 GMT, "Jeff Howard"
<jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> I don't understand what you are getting at here - what are you calling
>> "patches"?
>
>Patch = surface
>Surface (feature) = surface, quilt, polysurf
>
>???  I think the terms are vendor specific or maybe Bezier terms(?),
>predate NURBS.
>Pro/E still refers to patches in a surface which means surface in a quilt
>or polysurf.

  See post on number of control points vs. degree.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:49:43 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Surface can also be a face in VX terms.

  You are an idiot.

>I also agree that many of the terms are vendor specific.

  You are an idiot.

HTH
-- 
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:26:44 -0700, "jon banquer"
> <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
> >The reason you felt
> >this was neccessary to bring up was ?
> 
>   So you have the kids now? Paying the child support at long,
> long last? Or still in hiding from lawyers?


Cliff:

	Her kids were not Jon's, so no child support was necessary.  Besides,
the kids are grown up and on their own now.

	Jeeze guy, where is all this hate coming from?  You jealous of Jon?
Lighten up or you're going to get an ulcer, an aneurysm, or something.  


--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:11:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>How is it a "can o'worms" when the user of the program has no idea how the
>internal 3D surfacing toolpath really works ?

  You are an idiot?
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:11:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I do remember reading something from a HyperMill VAR years ago which said
>that HyperMill was superior to DelCAM PowerMill because it used triangles to
>calculate the toolpath and that this was somehow more accurate.
>
>I think the only way to tell would be to cut a two parts with similar 3D
>surfacing toolpath routines and compare the machining time of each and
>measure the accuracy of the cut part. I guess one could also compare the 3D
>surfacing toolpath calculation times as well to see which one was faster.

  So you are totally clueless yet again?
  LOL .....
-- 
Cliff

Cliff, could you clarify what type of surface representations your
statements are relevant to?   Many of the statements don't jive with what I
think I "know" about NURBS spline and surface definitions.

> > I don't understand what you are getting at here -
> > what are you calling "patches"?

> Consider the number of controlling points
> and the degree of the interpolating polynomial(s).

Sounds like you are talking about concatenated or "joined" curves,
polycurves, ... .  I believe a NURBS curve can have, but doesn't
necessarily have to have, subcurves, e.g. a curve with more than 4 control
vertices can be a degree 3 curve.

> > You may well be able to move control points in
> > the middle of a surface and have the edges
> > stay within the defined (position, tangent,
> > curvature) tolerance to the adjacent surfaces.

> This depends entirely on the degree of the total
> surface considered and the number of controlling
> points, in general.

If the curve assumptions above apply, then this is not true of surfaces,
i.e. a degree 3 surface with 5 U and V CV's; you can move the center CV
while maintaining G1 boundary conditions on four edges.

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f41620_1@news.bluewin.ch...
> > Mitch,
> >
> > IMO the Rhino newsgroup is a product loyalist newsgroup. Lets remove me
> > from the picture for one moment and try and look at this objectively.
> >
> > Michael Gailey has used the product (Rhino) for years. He was sick of
> > paying and paying for upgrades and he has still has not gotten decent
> > filleting in Rhino after all these years.
>
> "paying and paying for upgrades"  That's a hoot.  I can tell you exactly
how
> much Michael or anyone else had to pay for upgrades.  If Michael bought
> Rhino in 1998 when it hit the market, it cost $800 (per seat).  An upgrade
> to 1.1 cost $300 IIRC.  An upgrade to 2.0 cost $0 (it was free). An
upgrade
> to 3.0 cost $300.  So, from 1998 to 2005, "paying and paying for upgrades"
> amounts to twice in the amount of $600 per seat - around $100 a year.
That
> ain't very expensive.
>
> >
> > What do the Rhino loyalists in McNeel's newsgroup do.... bash him
> > for asking for something so outrageous as decent filleting. At one
point,
> > Michael Gailey had a ton of stuff that he did in Rhino on his website.
He
> > has since removed it.
>
> Nobody's contesting the fact that Rhino's filleting is not one of it's
> strongest points.  It wasn't *what* Michael asked for (as I have asked
> repeatedly for the same thing, and I've never gotten bashed for it), it
was
> *how*.  In that way, his approach is a lot like yours, drop in and start
> ranting.  In addition he has some issues with a couple of members of the
> Rhino group (a lot like you have here) and thus, you can imagine he got
> plenty of flak.  I'm sorry it worked out that way, but there's nothing I
can
> do about that.  So be it.
>
> Anyway, Michael's found something else that works better for him, fine.  I
> have no problem with that.  Neither with you.
>
> > I really don't want any part of the mentality that exists at McNeel and
> that
> > they foster in their newsgroup
>
> Nobody's forcing you to participate...  There seem to be a host of other
> Rhino forums out there, even on cadchat, right next to yours, so you can
go
> post over there if you feel like.  I don't see you posting on the official
> VX hosted user forums - is that too much of a "product loyalist" forum for
> you as well?
>
> > *but even more important* I don't feel that
> > one should have to jump between a surface and a solid modeler. I think
one
> > program with a transparent approach to using surface and solid tools is
> the
> > way to go and I have said this in both of these newsgroups for many
years
> > now.
>
> Fine, that's your way of going about it and you're welcome to it.
> Personally, I hope Rhino doesn't try to become another MCAD app like VX or
> SW or ProE or whathaveyou.  There's no need for that, and that market
niche
> is filled. I hope Rhino continues to march to the beat of a different
> drummer, and stays the Swiss Army Knife of 3D CAD.  Let me know when more
> cars, boats, buildings, jewelry, shoes, CG for films, etc. are being
> designed with VX than with Rhino...
>
> Personally, in my job I just don't need the concept of parametric history
> tree based modelers (sorry SW guys).  Why? There's too much baggage
> associated with it.  I prefer a direct real-time approach where you can
grab
> a part of the model and just move it as you like.  No sketches to go into
> and edit, no regenerations.  But hey, those are just my personal
> preferences, and I wouldn't pretend to say what's right for you.
>
> > I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
> > fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn
something
> > that I don't know now.
>
> I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now I'm
> sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into VX (or
> maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino, Vellum
Argon,
> and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm sure you
can
> fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have import
> settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>
> I also have a much bigger file (0.5 meg) that Rhino actually fillets
better
> than VX.  But I'm also sure there will be plenty of objects that VX will
> fillet better than Rhino.  C'est la vie...
> --
> Cheers,
>
> --Mitch
>
>

> "paying and paying for upgrades"  That's a hoot.

Mitch if he had Rhino for years and it still can't provide something as
basic as decent filleting is he really wrong about paying another cent for
an upgrade ?

>It wasn't *what* Michael asked for (as I have asked repeatedly for the same
>thing, and I've never gotten bashed for it), it was *how*.

Should anyone have to be polite when years later the product still doesn't
have decent filleting ? Seems to me he has every right to be pissed off.
It's unacceptable.

>In that way, his approach is a lot like yours, drop in and start ranting

Never underestimate a good rant. Hell it's the best thing about Dennis
Miller. :>)

"In addition he has some issues with a couple of members of the
Rhino group (a lot like you have here) and thus, you can imagine he got
plenty of flak."

McNeel loves those product loyalists and users on their tightly controled
newsgroup who are willing to wait and wait and wait and wait..... How
many years has it been now ?

Can't say I blame Michael for moving on !

>Let me know when more cars, boats, buildings, jewelry, shoes, CG for
>films, etc. are being designed with VX than with Rhino..."

Let me know when Rhino is designing more cell phones, TV sets
etc. than VX.... the current VX was built with Samsung money. Actually,
I think this argument is stupid so lets move on...

> Personally, in my job I just don't need the concept of parametric history
> tree based modelers (sorry SW guys).  Why? There's too much baggage
> associated with it.

I disagree.  I like the history based approach. I don't like having to
delete the surfaces, adjust the NURB splines and then reapply all the
surfaces like one has to do in Rhino. IMO, it's a massive waste of time. I
also feel this approach is very limiting to ones ability to experiment with
different concepts.

"But hey, those are just my personal preferences, and I wouldn't pretend to
say what's right for you."

Appreciate that. :>)

"Let me know if you have import settings or tools that fix it automatically,
I'd like to know."

Happy to share whatever I do with you Mitch. That's only fair.


jon

"BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:41F4286A.5CE4EB64@earthlink.net...
> Cliff wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:26:44 -0700, "jon banquer"
> > <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >The reason you felt
> > >this was neccessary to bring up was ?
> >
> >   So you have the kids now? Paying the child support at long,
> > long last? Or still in hiding from lawyers?
>
>
> Cliff:
>
> Her kids were not Jon's, so no child support was necessary.  Besides,
> the kids are grown up and on their own now.
>
> Jeeze guy, where is all this hate coming from?  You jealous of Jon?
> Lighten up or you're going to get an ulcer, an aneurysm, or something.
>
>
> --
> BottleBob
> http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob


Bob,

"The Virus" has been told this many, many times. How soon before it's
labeled for exactly what it is.... lying.

jon

..... and the NURBS equivalent of a "patch" would be a "knot span"?

"John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
>
> "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > jon banquer wrote:
> >>
> >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
> >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> >> > > Remember Constance ?
> >> > >
> >>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
> >> ode=source
> >> >
> >> > Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's
still
> >> > not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point
out
> >> > it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.
> >>
> >> Her mental illness is now verifiable. That she is currenlty serving
> >> time(again) in jail in Florida is verifiable. That she admitted to
lying
> >> might be verifiable if the person she admitted it to wants to post
> >> about it.... and that's his choice not mine.
> >
> > To All:
> >
> > I have no idea why this old stuff is being brought up again... well yes
> > I do.  John S. what did you mean by "FYI, Link above by Cliff"?
> >
>
> Cliff posted:
>
>
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>
> I read through the links at that page until I came upon:
> - "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
>
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=14
8308&utag=
>
> "Try this search: http://tinyurl.com/xgom (it's Jon Banquer's name and the
word a$$h*le in
> google groups) -- it comes up with FIVE PAGES of hits!!"
>
> Lastly, we have good old google so I read through them, finally reaching
the
> fourth link from top subject entitled
> "For everyone who knows Jon Banquer"
>
> I become curious to ask a question to Cliff  Remember Constance ?
> could I have emailed this response to Cliff, sure I could have, but
> more importantly, whatever did happen to Constance, as in remember
> whatever it was that provoked such an outburst, remember that Cliff?
> so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
>
> Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.
>
> John
>
>
>
>

IMO, if you really cared about Connie you would not have posted this, John.

Instead you would have done something like e-mail me and ask about Connie
or ask for her address so you could write to her in jail in Florida and ask
her directly how she is doing.

jon

"J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
news:DsVId.14919$5R.13432@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > > jon banquer wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in
message
> > >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> > >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> > >> > > Remember Constance ?
> > so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> > does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
> >
> > Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> > for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.
> >
>
>
> John,
> She changed her name to Vanessa Marie Semrow, moved to Rhinelander and got
a
> job pumping gas at a North Woods gas station and registering snowmobilers
at
> the local hotel. Today, she hangs with Donald Trump, Iman, and Britney
> Spears.
>
> Jon asked in one of his responses how any of this ought to have found it's
> way into a thread about surfacing and SolidWorks.
> It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> discussion either. I mean, what does something lethal to those subjected
to
> it have to do with SolidWorks? Should someone tell W that he should have
> been looking in Florida and not Iraq?
>
> It happens that certain lines get crossed occasionally in public forum's
> like this that shouldn't. I am surprised to see that you have and I am
> pretty sure you would like to jump back to the other side of the line
here.
> No prob, just do it. It does not take the resurrection of old garbage to
> form an opinion or discern reality, and behaving this way demeans you,
Jon's
> behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.
>
> --
>              John R. Carroll
> Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> Los Angeles          San Francisco
>    www.machiningsolution.com

"It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
discussion either."

However when you wished to discuss and plug TopSolids (a product that
you sell ) then everything was copacetic. LOL.


jon

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35iurtF4neqj0U1@individual.net...
>
> "J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
> news:DsVId.14919$5R.13432@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
> > >
> > > "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > > > jon banquer wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in
> message
> > > >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> > > >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> > > >> > > Remember Constance ?
> > > so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> > > does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
> > >
> > > Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> > > for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.
> > >
> >
> >
> > John,
> > She changed her name to Vanessa Marie Semrow, moved to Rhinelander and
got
> a
> > job pumping gas at a North Woods gas station and registering
snowmobilers
> at
> > the local hotel. Today, she hangs with Donald Trump, Iman, and Britney
> > Spears.
> >
> > Jon asked in one of his responses how any of this ought to have found
it's
> > way into a thread about surfacing and SolidWorks.
> > It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> > discussion either. I mean, what does something lethal to those subjected
> to
> > it have to do with SolidWorks? Should someone tell W that he should have
> > been looking in Florida and not Iraq?
> >
> > It happens that certain lines get crossed occasionally in public forum's
> > like this that shouldn't. I am surprised to see that you have and I am
> > pretty sure you would like to jump back to the other side of the line
> here.
> > No prob, just do it. It does not take the resurrection of old garbage to
> > form an opinion or discern reality, and behaving this way demeans you,
> Jon's
> > behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.
> >
> > --
> >              John R. Carroll
> > Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> > Los Angeles          San Francisco
> >    www.machiningsolution.com
>
> "It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> discussion either."
>
> However when you wished to discuss and plug TopSolids (a product that
> you sell ) then everything was copacetic. LOL.
>
>

Jon,
I see you have lost your sense of humor as well.
Never mind.
-- 
             John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles          San Francisco
   www.machiningsolution.com

"J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
news:4PXId.14949$5R.3215@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35iurtF4neqj0U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
> > news:DsVId.14919$5R.13432@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > > news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
> > > >
> > > > "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > > > > jon banquer wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in
> > message
> > > > >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> > > > >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> > > > >> > > Remember Constance ?
> > > > so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> > > > does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
> > > >
> > > > Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> > > > for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of
Constance.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John,
> > > She changed her name to Vanessa Marie Semrow, moved to Rhinelander and
> got
> > a
> > > job pumping gas at a North Woods gas station and registering
> snowmobilers
> > at
> > > the local hotel. Today, she hangs with Donald Trump, Iman, and Britney
> > > Spears.
> > >
> > > Jon asked in one of his responses how any of this ought to have found
> it's
> > > way into a thread about surfacing and SolidWorks.
> > > It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> > > discussion either. I mean, what does something lethal to those
subjected
> > to
> > > it have to do with SolidWorks? Should someone tell W that he should
have
> > > been looking in Florida and not Iraq?
> > >
> > > It happens that certain lines get crossed occasionally in public
forum's
> > > like this that shouldn't. I am surprised to see that you have and I am
> > > pretty sure you would like to jump back to the other side of the line
> > here.
> > > No prob, just do it. It does not take the resurrection of old garbage
to
> > > form an opinion or discern reality, and behaving this way demeans you,
> > Jon's
> > > behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.
> > >
> > > --
> > >              John R. Carroll
> > > Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> > > Los Angeles          San Francisco
> > >    www.machiningsolution.com
> >
> > "It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> > discussion either."
> >
> > However when you wished to discuss and plug TopSolids (a product that
> > you sell ) then everything was copacetic. LOL.
> >
> >
>
> Jon,
> I see you have lost your sense of humor as well.
> Never mind.
> --
>              John R. Carroll
> Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> Los Angeles          San Francisco
>    www.machiningsolution.com
>
>

I haven't lost my sense of humor. Just thought I would point out
a descrepency. I did see what you were trying to point out to John
S. and I think you did it in a nice way.

Did you perhaps notice I did not try and take John S. head off like
I would have done in the past ?

I welcome any factual discussion of TopSolid as long as it can
be measured with and compared to other products for free
by anyone who wishes to do so... ala what VX is doing.

jon

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:35isj9F4m4h1mU1@individual.net...
>
> "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
>> > jon banquer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
>> >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
>> >> > > Remember Constance ?
>> >> > >
>> >>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
>> >> ode=source
>> >> >
>> >> > Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's
> still
>> >> > not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to point
> out
>> >> > it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.
>> >>
>> >> Her mental illness is now verifiable. That she is currenlty serving
>> >> time(again) in jail in Florida is verifiable. That she admitted to
> lying
>> >> might be verifiable if the person she admitted it to wants to post
>> >> about it.... and that's his choice not mine.
>> >
>> > To All:
>> >
>> > I have no idea why this old stuff is being brought up again... well yes
>> > I do.  John S. what did you mean by "FYI, Link above by Cliff"?
>> >
>>
>> Cliff posted:
>>
>>
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> &key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
>>
>> I read through the links at that page until I came upon:
>> - "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
>>
> http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=14
> 8308&utag=
>>
>> "Try this search: http://tinyurl.com/xgom (it's Jon Banquer's name and the
> word a$$h*le in
>> google groups) -- it comes up with FIVE PAGES of hits!!"
>>
>> Lastly, we have good old google so I read through them, finally reaching
> the
>> fourth link from top subject entitled
>> "For everyone who knows Jon Banquer"
>>
>> I become curious to ask a question to Cliff  Remember Constance ?
>> could I have emailed this response to Cliff, sure I could have, but
>> more importantly, whatever did happen to Constance, as in remember
>> whatever it was that provoked such an outburst, remember that Cliff?
>> so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
>> does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
>>
>> Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
>> for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>
> IMO, if you really cared about Connie you would not have posted this, John.
>
> Instead you would have done something like e-mail me and ask about Connie
> or ask for her address so you could write to her in jail in Florida and ask
> her directly how she is doing.
>
> jon
>

Well Jon, maybe you should look into having the post removed off the servers.

It sure was surprising for me to read anyway, maybe not anyone else.
Jon, here's what I know, NO man if he's any kind of man at all would never
ever beat up a woman, hit a woman, strike a woman out of anger, kick a woman
half to death under no circumstances, that I'm sure you will agree with, but
I was sure hell shocked when I read it.

Someone was kind enough to send me Connie's picture,
nice looking little lady, she looks very kind and thoughtful.

Sure I can talk to Connie, maybe I can a cheer her up.
Here's my email address, does she have one also ?

jschel@centurytel.net

John 

[
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
>fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn something
>that I don't know now.
]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:06:15 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>> I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now I'm
>> sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into VX (or
>> maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino, Vellum
>Argon,
>> and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm sure you
>can
>> fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have import
>> settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>
>OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.

  LOL ..... A wasted effort (sorry to hear that though).
  He'd have no clue anyway what's supposed to be *right*.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:09:42 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
>news:41f41fd9_3@news.bluewin.ch...
>> > I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now I'm
>> > sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into VX (or
>> > maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino, Vellum
>> Argon,
>> > and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm sure you
>> can
>> > fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have import
>> > settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>>
>> OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --Mitch
>>
>>
>
>My first name together with my last name at Yahoo.com

  jonnieboybanquer@yahoo.com ?
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:22:27 GMT, "J. R. Carroll"
<jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote:

>Jon's behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.

  Good point.
-- 
Cliff

"John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
news:35j0khF4k4n8qU1@individual.net...
>
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35isj9F4m4h1mU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >> "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> >> > jon banquer wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in
message
> >> >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> >> >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> >> >> > > Remember Constance ?
> >> >> > >
> >> >>
> >
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/msg/7d35063394fbda31?dm
> >> >> ode=source
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Geez, Louise!!  Well, however much that looks bad (very bad) it's
> > still
> >> >> > not verifiable.  I'm not here to defend Jon, however.  Just to
point
> > out
> >> >> > it brings the newsgroup down to stoop too low.
> >> >>
> >> >> Her mental illness is now verifiable. That she is currenlty serving
> >> >> time(again) in jail in Florida is verifiable. That she admitted to
> > lying
> >> >> might be verifiable if the person she admitted it to wants to post
> >> >> about it.... and that's his choice not mine.
> >> >
> >> > To All:
> >> >
> >> > I have no idea why this old stuff is being brought up again... well
yes
> >> > I do.  John S. what did you mean by "FYI, Link above by Cliff"?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Cliff posted:
> >>
> >>
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?utag=&cmd=r_search&from=1&to=20
> >
&key=banquer&action=Search&search_groups=rhino&search_since=-9999&search_bef
> > ore=0&search_match=&search_sort=score
> >>
> >> I read through the links at that page until I came upon:
> >> - "Heath" , 2 Dec 2003
> >>
> >
http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnewsweb.exe?cmd=article&group=rhino&item=14
> > 8308&utag=
> >>
> >> "Try this search: http://tinyurl.com/xgom (it's Jon Banquer's name and
the
> > word a$$h*le in
> >> google groups) -- it comes up with FIVE PAGES of hits!!"
> >>
> >> Lastly, we have good old google so I read through them, finally
reaching
> > the
> >> fourth link from top subject entitled
> >> "For everyone who knows Jon Banquer"
> >>
> >> I become curious to ask a question to Cliff  Remember Constance ?
> >> could I have emailed this response to Cliff, sure I could have, but
> >> more importantly, whatever did happen to Constance, as in remember
> >> whatever it was that provoked such an outburst, remember that Cliff?
> >> so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> >> does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
> >>
> >> Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> >> for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of Constance.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > IMO, if you really cared about Connie you would not have posted this,
John.
> >
> > Instead you would have done something like e-mail me and ask about
Connie
> > or ask for her address so you could write to her in jail in Florida and
ask
> > her directly how she is doing.
> >
> > jon
> >
>
> Well Jon, maybe you should look into having the post removed off the
servers.
>
> It sure was surprising for me to read anyway, maybe not anyone else.
> Jon, here's what I know, NO man if he's any kind of man at all would never
> ever beat up a woman, hit a woman, strike a woman out of anger, kick a
woman
> half to death under no circumstances, that I'm sure you will agree with,
but
> I was sure hell shocked when I read it.
>
> Someone was kind enough to send me Connie's picture,
> nice looking little lady, she looks very kind and thoughtful.
>
> Sure I can talk to Connie, maybe I can a cheer her up.
> Here's my email address, does she have one also ?
>
> jschel@centurytel.net
>
> John
>
>

> Someone was kind enough to send me Connie's picture,
> nice looking little lady, she looks very kind and thoughtful.

She can be. She also can do some very desperate, mean and
nasty things. Metal illness untreated can be devastating and it has
been devistating for her.

> Sure I can talk to Connie, maybe I can a cheer her up.
> Here's my email address, does she have one also ?

Connie is not allowed to use a computer in the jail she
is currently residing at. Connie can only recieve letters and
those letters have to be in an envelope that has a stamp
printed on it... like you can buy from the post office.

If you e-mail me I will send you her address and her
cell / prisioner / jail number... don't really know what it's
called.

Connie is currently in the Sanford jail in Polk county near Orlando.

I don't know if the State Of Florida releases any information and
posts it on the web so that you would not even need to e-mail me
and you could obtain it directly.

Once again I have no intention of trying to have her post removed
of the server. It's her post not mine and like I said it doesn't really
bother me anymore.


jon

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:35:05 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>	"Jon Banquer" + asshole gets 65 hits.

  Use all the "correct" names, BB <G>.
  Don't forget a Net search too. He's been very
well known (as a pest) on many a BBS too but many
posts are gone from many of them.
-- 
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:35:05 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> 
> >       "Jon Banquer" + asshole gets 65 hits.
> 
>   Use all the "correct" names, BB <G>.
>   Don't forget a Net search too. He's been very
> well known (as a pest) on many a BBS too but many
> posts are gone from many of them.


Cliff:

	Like I told John S., it doesn't necessarily have any sort of personal
relevance, it could just mean that someone was involved in a thread
where the word *asshole* was used in the body of text, or in the subject
title.
	

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35j0g9F4lrob5U1@individual.net...
>
> "J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
> news:4PXId.14949$5R.3215@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> > news:35iurtF4neqj0U1@individual.net...
> > >
> > > "J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
> > > news:DsVId.14919$5R.13432@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > > >
> > > > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > > > news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > > > > > jon banquer wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in
> > > message
> > > > > >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> > > > > >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> > > > > >> > > Remember Constance ?
> > > > > so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> > > > > does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
> > > > >
> > > > > Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I know
> > > > > for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of
> Constance.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John,
> > > > She changed her name to Vanessa Marie Semrow, moved to Rhinelander
and
> > got
> > > a
> > > > job pumping gas at a North Woods gas station and registering
> > snowmobilers
> > > at
> > > > the local hotel. Today, she hangs with Donald Trump, Iman, and
Britney
> > > > Spears.
> > > >
> > > > Jon asked in one of his responses how any of this ought to have
found
> > it's
> > > > way into a thread about surfacing and SolidWorks.
> > > > It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> > > > discussion either. I mean, what does something lethal to those
> subjected
> > > to
> > > > it have to do with SolidWorks? Should someone tell W that he should
> have
> > > > been looking in Florida and not Iraq?
> > > >
> > > > It happens that certain lines get crossed occasionally in public
> forum's
> > > > like this that shouldn't. I am surprised to see that you have and I
am
> > > > pretty sure you would like to jump back to the other side of the
line
> > > here.
> > > > No prob, just do it. It does not take the resurrection of old
garbage
> to
> > > > form an opinion or discern reality, and behaving this way demeans
you,
> > > Jon's
> > > > behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >              John R. Carroll
> > > > Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> > > > Los Angeles          San Francisco
> > > >    www.machiningsolution.com
> > >
> > > "It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such a
> > > discussion either."
> > >
> > > However when you wished to discuss and plug TopSolids (a product that
> > > you sell ) then everything was copacetic. LOL.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Jon,
> > I see you have lost your sense of humor as well.
> > Never mind.
> > --
> >              John R. Carroll
> > Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> > Los Angeles          San Francisco
> >    www.machiningsolution.com
> >
> >
>
> I haven't lost my sense of humor. Just thought I would point out
> a descrepency. I did see what you were trying to point out to John
> S. and I think you did it in a nice way.

Well then, why didn't you just leave it alone?


>
> Did you perhaps notice I did not try and take John S. head off like
> I would have done in the past ?
>
> I welcome any factual discussion of TopSolid as long as it can
> be measured with and compared to other products for free
> by anyone who wishes to do so... ala what VX is doing.
>

I don't waste the time or energy I have promoting my products in
unproductive venues like this, and free demo's at the Missler level are not
something a high probability customer is interested in. The TopSolid
discussion I think you are referring to was not really about TopSolid at all
and the result was that I volunteered to, and then actually did, translate
some Catia files for a SW user - for free.  I didn't try and sell him a
thing, just helped him get a job delivered. Making yourself useful,
professional to professional, is it's own reward and I suspect that if I
needed the favor returned for some reason it would be, and gladly at that.

You also have to consider that TS and SW do not compete. Not at all. They
serve entirely different markets. Will TopSolid outperform SolidWorks?
Absolutely, and anyone with a working knowledge of both will tell you that.
This does not mean that everyone should run out and purchase TS nor does it
mean that SW professionals are any less professional for their use of
SolidWorks. The things SW brings to the table beyond the product are both
formidable and remarkable. You shouldn't belittle any of it. DSS is a great
company and they know what they want to accomplish. They can and will do
whatever they think best. A SW user looking to migrate to a fuller solution
is going to go with CATIA or UG, not VX, and if you have a hard look at
those products the reasons are clear.

 Have you purchased a CAD/CAM/CAE or CAO product lately Jon? Do you really
think your comments sway qualified purchasers in a positive and thoughtful
way? They don't Jon, just the opposite. You are so in your face and abrasive
that the value of your content is drowned out by your own vituperation. This
is certainly your prerogative and within your control. You know I feel this
way and I have said as much to you without getting all worked up.

In my own small and humble opinion Jon, your proselytizing of the latest
killer ap is the best thing that could happen, NG wise, for my sales. I
don't mean that as a slam either, it's just true. Keep up the good work!

-- 
             John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles          San Francisco
   www.machiningsolution.com

"J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
news:HeZId.14963$5R.3092@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35j0g9F4lrob5U1@individual.net...
> >
> > "J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
> > news:4PXId.14949$5R.3215@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message
> > > news:35iurtF4neqj0U1@individual.net...
> > > >
> > > > "J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:DsVId.14919$5R.13432@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > "John Scheldroup" <jschel@earthsite.org> wrote in message
> > > > > news:35ikloF4m5dnuU1@individual.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:41F41828.180D7D17@earthlink.net...
> > > > > > > jon banquer wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> "Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote
in
> > > > message
> > > > > > >> news:41F3ED66.C80FF6C5@bigfootDOT.com...
> > > > > > >> > John Scheldroup wrote:
> > > > > > >> > > Remember Constance ?
> > > > > > so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance,
> > > > > > does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I
know
> > > > > > for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became of
> > Constance.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > John,
> > > > > She changed her name to Vanessa Marie Semrow, moved to Rhinelander
> and
> > > got
> > > > a
> > > > > job pumping gas at a North Woods gas station and registering
> > > snowmobilers
> > > > at
> > > > > the local hotel. Today, she hangs with Donald Trump, Iman, and
> Britney
> > > > > Spears.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon asked in one of his responses how any of this ought to have
> found
> > > it's
> > > > > way into a thread about surfacing and SolidWorks.
> > > > > It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such
a
> > > > > discussion either. I mean, what does something lethal to those
> > subjected
> > > > to
> > > > > it have to do with SolidWorks? Should someone tell W that he
should
> > have
> > > > > been looking in Florida and not Iraq?
> > > > >
> > > > > It happens that certain lines get crossed occasionally in public
> > forum's
> > > > > like this that shouldn't. I am surprised to see that you have and
I
> am
> > > > > pretty sure you would like to jump back to the other side of the
> line
> > > > here.
> > > > > No prob, just do it. It does not take the resurrection of old
> garbage
> > to
> > > > > form an opinion or discern reality, and behaving this way demeans
> you,
> > > > Jon's
> > > > > behavior speaks for itself and does not require amplification.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >              John R. Carroll
> > > > > Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> > > > > Los Angeles          San Francisco
> > > > >    www.machiningsolution.com
> > > >
> > > > "It ought not to have, but then VX shouldn't have been part of such
a
> > > > discussion either."
> > > >
> > > > However when you wished to discuss and plug TopSolids (a product
that
> > > > you sell ) then everything was copacetic. LOL.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Jon,
> > > I see you have lost your sense of humor as well.
> > > Never mind.
> > > --
> > >              John R. Carroll
> > > Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> > > Los Angeles          San Francisco
> > >    www.machiningsolution.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I haven't lost my sense of humor. Just thought I would point out
> > a descrepency. I did see what you were trying to point out to John
> > S. and I think you did it in a nice way.
>
> Well then, why didn't you just leave it alone?
>
>
> >
> > Did you perhaps notice I did not try and take John S. head off like
> > I would have done in the past ?
> >
> > I welcome any factual discussion of TopSolid as long as it can
> > be measured with and compared to other products for free
> > by anyone who wishes to do so... ala what VX is doing.
> >
>
> I don't waste the time or energy I have promoting my products in
> unproductive venues like this, and free demo's at the Missler level are
not
> something a high probability customer is interested in. The TopSolid
> discussion I think you are referring to was not really about TopSolid at
all
> and the result was that I volunteered to, and then actually did, translate
> some Catia files for a SW user - for free.  I didn't try and sell him a
> thing, just helped him get a job delivered. Making yourself useful,
> professional to professional, is it's own reward and I suspect that if I
> needed the favor returned for some reason it would be, and gladly at that.
>
> You also have to consider that TS and SW do not compete. Not at all. They
> serve entirely different markets. Will TopSolid outperform SolidWorks?
> Absolutely, and anyone with a working knowledge of both will tell you
that.
> This does not mean that everyone should run out and purchase TS nor does
it
> mean that SW professionals are any less professional for their use of
> SolidWorks. The things SW brings to the table beyond the product are both
> formidable and remarkable. You shouldn't belittle any of it. DSS is a
great
> company and they know what they want to accomplish. They can and will do
> whatever they think best. A SW user looking to migrate to a fuller
solution
> is going to go with CATIA or UG, not VX, and if you have a hard look at
> those products the reasons are clear.
>
>  Have you purchased a CAD/CAM/CAE or CAO product lately Jon? Do you really
> think your comments sway qualified purchasers in a positive and thoughtful
> way? They don't Jon, just the opposite. You are so in your face and
abrasive
> that the value of your content is drowned out by your own vituperation.
This
> is certainly your prerogative and within your control. You know I feel
this
> way and I have said as much to you without getting all worked up.
>
> In my own small and humble opinion Jon, your proselytizing of the latest
> killer ap is the best thing that could happen, NG wise, for my sales. I
> don't mean that as a slam either, it's just true. Keep up the good work!
>
> --
>              John R. Carroll
> Machining Solution Software, Inc.
> Los Angeles          San Francisco
>    www.machiningsolution.com
>
>

"Do you really think your comments sway qualified purchasers in a positive
and thoughtful way?"

I think my comments makes some people *think*. I could careless if they
purchase or don't purchase software. I have a much different perspective
than you do as unlike you I don't sell and support software and don't derive
any financial benefit from whatever someone does or doesn't purchase.

I think my comments cause some people to look at products they would not
otherwise try.

I think my comments promote comparitive discussion between products.

"Keep up the good work!"

I'll try. :>)

jon

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:25:15 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"BottleBob" <bottlbob@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:41F4286A.5CE4EB64@earthlink.net...
>> Cliff wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:26:44 -0700, "jon banquer"
>> > <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >The reason you felt
>> > >this was neccessary to bring up was ?
>> >
>> >   So you have the kids now? Paying the child support at long,
>> > long last? Or still in hiding from lawyers?
>>
>>
>> Cliff:
>>
>> Her kids were not Jon's, so no child support was necessary. 

  How much has he lied about? 
 
>> Besides, the kids are grown up and on their own now.

  So they were about 12 when they started this? Seems a bit under age
to me, even for CT.

>> Jeeze guy, where is all this hate coming from?  You jealous of Jon?
>> Lighten up or you're going to get an ulcer, an aneurysm, or something.

  Or worms <G>.

>> BottleBob
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
>
>
>Bob,
>
>"The Virus" has been told this many, many times. How soon before it's
>labeled for exactly what it is.... lying.

  Has anyone noticed yet that you are clueless?
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:07:11 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> "paying and paying for upgrades"  That's a hoot.
>
>Mitch if he had Rhino for years and it still can't provide something as
>basic as decent filleting is he really wrong about paying another cent for
>an upgrade ?

  "Better than sliced bread"? Was that before or after you got caught
claiming some parts others did were yours? 

>>It wasn't *what* Michael asked for (as I have asked repeatedly for the same
>>thing, and I've never gotten bashed for it), it was *how*.
>
>Should anyone have to be polite when years later the product still doesn't
>have decent filleting ? Seems to me he has every right to be pissed off.
>It's unacceptable.

  After all your rants over all the years about the "better than
 sliced bread" stuff?

>>In that way, his approach is a lot like yours, drop in and start ranting
>
>Never underestimate a good rant. Hell it's the best thing about Dennis
>Miller. :>)

  ??

>"In addition he has some issues with a couple of members of the
>Rhino group (a lot like you have here) and thus, you can imagine he got
>plenty of flak."
>
>McNeel loves those product loyalists and users on their tightly controled
>newsgroup who are willing to wait and wait and wait and wait..... How
>many years has it been now ?

  Since you saw a free demo?

>Can't say I blame Michael for moving on !

  You have to speak or him now, do you?

>>Let me know when more cars, boats, buildings, jewelry, shoes, CG for
>>films, etc. are being designed with VX than with Rhino..."
>
>Let me know when Rhino is designing more cell phones, TV sets
>etc. than VX.... the current VX was built with Samsung money. 

  So it's really, really good at IC, LSI & PCB design?

>Actually,
>I think this argument is stupid so lets move on...

  Hey, it's YOUR "argument" afer all.

>> Personally, in my job I just don't need the concept of parametric history
>> tree based modelers (sorry SW guys).  Why? There's too much baggage
>> associated with it.
>
>I disagree.  I like the history based approach. I don't like having to
>delete the surfaces, adjust the NURB splines and then reapply all the
>surfaces like one has to do in Rhino. 

  So you don't want "total control" any more?

  What a hoot !!!

>IMO, it's a massive waste of time.

  You'd actually have to use it to do something.

> I also feel this approach is very limiting to ones ability to experiment with
>different concepts.

  What? Surfaces?

  Have any actual "concepts"? How about just a brick?

>"But hey, those are just my personal preferences, and I wouldn't pretend to
>say what's right for you."
>
>Appreciate that. :>)

  Etch-A-Sketch. Too complicated?

>"Let me know if you have import settings or tools that fix it automatically,
>I'd like to know."
>
>Happy to share whatever I do with you Mitch. That's only fair.

  This will be good I expect <G>.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:13:37 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I would point out a descrepency.

  Can you find one? (You may use both hands.)
-- 
Cliff

> Mitch if he had Rhino for years and it still can't provide something as
> basic as decent filleting is he really wrong about paying another cent for
> an upgrade ?

No, it is and always was his decision not to upgrade.  But it's not
necessary to rant and rave about it - just get another program that works
better for you and move on.

> >It wasn't *what* Michael asked for (as I have asked repeatedly for the
same
> >thing, and I've never gotten bashed for it), it was *how*.
>
> Should anyone have to be polite when years later the product still doesn't
> have decent filleting ? Seems to me he has every right to be pissed off.

Yes.  Politeness is required on the Rhino newsgroup.  That's part of the
deal.  If you can't deal with that, post elsewhere.

> It's unacceptable.

No, rudeness is unacceptable.

> >In that way, his approach is a lot like yours, drop in and start ranting
>
> Never underestimate a good rant. Hell it's the best thing about Dennis
> Miller. :>)

BS.  It's just someone going back to a three year old level and throwing a
temper tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted.  If a program which
you initially bought and liked doesn't evolve the way you like, that's too
bad.  If after a certain time of politely asking for stuff, you see it's not
going to happen, don't upgrade, just move on.

> "In addition he has some issues with a couple of members of the
> Rhino group (a lot like you have here) and thus, you can imagine he got
> plenty of flak."
>
> McNeel loves those product loyalists and users on their tightly controled
> newsgroup who are willing to wait and wait and wait and wait..... How
> many years has it been now ?

Hmm, funny.  You'd think after all these years, of everyone being
"disappointed" and "waiting and waiting" , there'd be no Rhino users left in
the world...   Should be nobody left on the Rhino NG either...  Must be
something wrong here...  Why are all those "product loyalists" so loyal?

> Can't say I blame Michael for moving on !
>
> >Let me know when more cars, boats, buildings, jewelry, shoes, CG for
> >films, etc. are being designed with VX than with Rhino..."
>
> Let me know when Rhino is designing more cell phones, TV sets
> etc. than VX.... the current VX was built with Samsung money. Actually,
> I think this argument is stupid so lets move on...

No, it's not any more stupid than your arguments.

Bottom line is, the market will decide which programs survive and which
don't.  Most likely both Rhino and VX will continue to grow and prosper.  It
isn't a one-or-the-other situation.  What I don't understand is you and
Michael seem to take it as a personal offense that Rhino didn't end up doing
what you wanted it to do.  But actually that's not for you to decide (nor
me, for that matter).  It's entirely up to Mr. McNeel, and how he sees fit
to run his company and develop his product.

OK, I have spent enough time on this thread, I have a lot of work to do, and
it's Monday morning...

--Mitch

> Better stick to the conventional wisdom: Debating with JB and Cliff is
> like running in the Special Olympics.  No matter who wins, everyone
> looks retarded.

Best line in months!  Thanks for brightening my day (and coming up with the
PERFECT metaphor)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:30:06 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Cliff wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:35:05 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >       "Jon Banquer" + asshole gets 65 hits.
>> 
>>   Use all the "correct" names, BB <G>.
>>   Don't forget a Net search too. He's been very
>> well known (as a pest) on many a BBS too but many
>> posts are gone from many of them.
>
>
>Cliff:
>
>	Like I told John S., it doesn't necessarily have any sort of personal
>relevance, it could just mean that someone was involved in a thread
>where the word *asshole* was used in the body of text, or in the subject
>title.

  Your point being?

  Who made the post(s)?
-- 
Cliff

"pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in
news:ct0hu8$oaa$1@news.freedom2surf.net: 

> Right, I can see the differences here, you are involved in making just
> moulds, where I have to design and have to know about:-
> worldwide standards and pressure directives

Heh, the following is highly bragadocious of which is fine, but you 
obviously dont know me or what I do each day.
Which is OK. But next time do some research.

> Stress analysis
Yep

> Sheetmetal
Yep

> Engineering
Well, duh.

> Microprocessors
Not design.

> Circuit board and wiring layouts
I've rolled my own before. But if yer designing them then you got one on 
me.

> Pipework
Well, water/oil/air.

> Hydraulics
Ayuppers. Molds are kind of inherent to hydraulics. Tee hee

> Workshop manuals
Na, I aint a good writer. Plus I dont have a secretary or sidekick.

> Operating manuals
Same as above

> Service parts and manuals
And above

> Sales literature
Yea, I do order my own business cards from time to time. :)

> Basically everything from the idea to the finished working product,
> sales department and then on to the servicing side.
WOW. How kewl!
I'm proud of ya!

> All this with one sidekick!
Bing wonders who or what that is?

> Gee, must be great, just to have one job!
I wouldnt know.

> Blimey, I did't realize I done that much  :-O, I must ask for another
> pay rise :-P

I would if I were you.
Personally I accept that I made my own prison.

You did forgit about running a shop with 8 people to manage though.
You also forgot about quoting, direct sales, neumatics, metalluragy, 
actually running machines, programming, training, MIS, process flow, 
robotics, resin recommendation and processing, answering the phones, 
board meetings, cleaning the toilets, etc.

So I think you got me a bit wrong in yer assesment.

Next time do a little research.

Bing

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:35immhF4nr6t1U1@individual.net: 

> It's been my experience that most moldmakers can only see the world
> thru their eyes where everything has to relate to a mold. It gets
> really old after awhile.

How would you know?
Plus, my business IS molds. Not yer forte last I heard. Yer too busy 
demoing software to be a moldmaker. I aint got time to demo every piece of 
software that comes out. Thats whay I leave this type of moT-foolery to 
you.
 
> It's a lame argument to suggest one should just use SolidWorks and
> live with it's severe limitations for lets say Industrial Design.

Then just show us something. Geesh it aint all that hard to use a dropbox.
 
> I would argue that SolidWorks is an exceptionally poor tool for
> many types if Industrial Design.

I aint doing industrial design cept for the robotics on the molds so why 
should I even care? And I have no problems with it in SW. Yer just busted 
on the fact that people can use a piece of software for utility and 
actually PRODUCE something, instead of miming it.

Comeon and whip it out. We wanna see what you can do.

Bing

"Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95E8B52DB5797bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:35immhF4nr6t1U1@individual.net:
>
>
> Comeon and whip it out.


Man,
There's an image I didn't need  :>)

-- 
             John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles          San Francisco
   www.machiningsolution.com

"J. R. Carroll" <jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote in news:A1fJd.15198
$5R.3564@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

> 
> "Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns95E8B52DB5797bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
>> "jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:35immhF4nr6t1U1@individual.net:
>>
>>
>> Comeon and whip it out.
> 
> 
> Man,
> There's an image I didn't need  :>)
> 

If yer mind wasnt in the gutter....... heh

Bing

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f4aae5_1@news.bluewin.ch...
>
> > Mitch if he had Rhino for years and it still can't provide something as
> > basic as decent filleting is he really wrong about paying another cent
for
> > an upgrade ?
>
> No, it is and always was his decision not to upgrade.  But it's not
> necessary to rant and rave about it - just get another program that works
> better for you and move on.
>
> > >It wasn't *what* Michael asked for (as I have asked repeatedly for the
> same
> > >thing, and I've never gotten bashed for it), it was *how*.
> >
> > Should anyone have to be polite when years later the product still
doesn't
> > have decent filleting ? Seems to me he has every right to be pissed off.
>
> Yes.  Politeness is required on the Rhino newsgroup.  That's part of the
> deal.  If you can't deal with that, post elsewhere.
>
> > It's unacceptable.
>
> No, rudeness is unacceptable.
>
> > >In that way, his approach is a lot like yours, drop in and start
ranting
> >
> > Never underestimate a good rant. Hell it's the best thing about Dennis
> > Miller. :>)
>
> BS.  It's just someone going back to a three year old level and throwing a
> temper tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted.  If a program
which
> you initially bought and liked doesn't evolve the way you like, that's too
> bad.  If after a certain time of politely asking for stuff, you see it's
not
> going to happen, don't upgrade, just move on.
>
> > "In addition he has some issues with a couple of members of the
> > Rhino group (a lot like you have here) and thus, you can imagine he got
> > plenty of flak."
> >
> > McNeel loves those product loyalists and users on their tightly
controled
> > newsgroup who are willing to wait and wait and wait and wait..... How
> > many years has it been now ?
>
> Hmm, funny.  You'd think after all these years, of everyone being
> "disappointed" and "waiting and waiting" , there'd be no Rhino users left
in
> the world...   Should be nobody left on the Rhino NG either...  Must be
> something wrong here...  Why are all those "product loyalists" so loyal?
>
> > Can't say I blame Michael for moving on !
> >
> > >Let me know when more cars, boats, buildings, jewelry, shoes, CG for
> > >films, etc. are being designed with VX than with Rhino..."
> >
> > Let me know when Rhino is designing more cell phones, TV sets
> > etc. than VX.... the current VX was built with Samsung money. Actually,
> > I think this argument is stupid so lets move on...
>
> No, it's not any more stupid than your arguments.
>
> Bottom line is, the market will decide which programs survive and which
> don't.  Most likely both Rhino and VX will continue to grow and prosper.
It
> isn't a one-or-the-other situation.  What I don't understand is you and
> Michael seem to take it as a personal offense that Rhino didn't end up
doing
> what you wanted it to do.  But actually that's not for you to decide (nor
> me, for that matter).  It's entirely up to Mr. McNeel, and how he sees fit
> to run his company and develop his product.
>
> OK, I have spent enough time on this thread, I have a lot of work to do,
and
> it's Monday morning...
>
> --Mitch
>



>But it's not necessary to rant and rave about it....

That's your opinion. He obviously has another opinion. He's
entitled to it.

> Yes.  Politeness is required on the Rhino newsgroup.  That's part of the
> deal.

Nope. One must not rock the boat to hard and not complain to much.

> No, rudeness is unacceptable.

I have never found Michael to be rude. Hard headed and stuborn,
yes. :>) Rude... uh no.

Smart.... beyond a shadow of a doubt. Michael certainly figured out
why "The Virus" acts like he does.

> BS.  It's just someone going back to a three year old level and throwing a
> temper tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted.

Maybe you should write Dennis Miller and tell him what you think of his
rants. LOL.

>Should be nobody left on the Rhino NG either

Rhino fills a void right now but that void is going to dissapear as more
solid modelers become better hybrid modelers. I went and took a look
at the Rhino newsgroup... same old posters. Don't see much of a
change... yawn.

>Why are all those "product loyalists" so loyal?

Because it fills a void and because McNeel does a good job of
stroking them while delivering a rate of development that is very,
very, very slow.

Hope you had a good day... I know I did. :>)

jon

> Because it fills a void and because McNeel does a good job of
> stroking them while delivering a rate of development that is very,
> very, very slow.

It fills a few voids, I believe.  FWIW, I have to hand it to McNeel; they
aren't pretentious, certainly not a pretentious price and are willing to
take a risk; e.g. replace AGLib with their own geometry engine which
largely explains the up to now slow.  Who knows what the future holds?
It's conceivable they could turn the tables on some existing hybrid solid
modelers.  They seem to have the talent on hand for some very worthwhile
development.  Personally, I'd like to see them move in an ICEM direction
rather than concentrate too much on the already well beaten mechanical,
solid, etc. paths.

"Jeff Howard" <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:Z5iJd.4612$YD5.150@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Because it fills a void and because McNeel does a good job of
> > stroking them while delivering a rate of development that is very,
> > very, very slow.
>
> It fills a few voids, I believe.  FWIW, I have to hand it to McNeel; they
> aren't pretentious, certainly not a pretentious price and are willing to
> take a risk; e.g. replace AGLib with their own geometry engine which
> largely explains the up to now slow.  Who knows what the future holds?
> It's conceivable they could turn the tables on some existing hybrid solid
> modelers.  They seem to have the talent on hand for some very worthwhile
> development.  Personally, I'd like to see them move in an ICEM direction
> rather than concentrate too much on the already well beaten mechanical,
> solid, etc. paths.
>

 >e.g. replace AGLib with their own geometry engine which
> largely explains the up to now slow.

McNeel were never honest with their users about this and what it would
entail. Turned out this set McNeel back 2 years. They never even told
their users in the beginning how extensivley AGLib was integrated into Rhino
and most Rhino users were happy to be kept in the dark.... SURPRISE ! : (

>They seem to have the talent on hand for some very worthwhile
> development.

IMO, Bob McNeel should have hired Gary Crocker and his partner to integrate
their solid modeling kernel into Rhino years ago... rather than ask Gary to
come up with an add-in.

> It's conceivable they could turn the tables on some existing hybrid solid
> modelers.

They could have done this if Bob McNeel had focused on what the real market
was / is not what Bob McNeel wanted it to be. Keep in mind, Bob McNeel
derives alot of his money from selling Autodesk products. Originally, I
think Rhino was suppose to be an AutoCAD add-in.

>Personally, I'd like to see them move in an ICEM direction

Unfortunatly I think were years out from anyone doing this. Nice
thought, though. :>)

jon

> McNeel were never honest with their users about this
> and what it would entail. Turned out this set McNeel
> back 2 years. They never even told their users in the
> beginning how extensivley AGLib was integrated into ...

Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see them as
being dishonest about it.  Just how superficially would one expect the
foundation of the program be "integrated"?  At any rate what alternatives
were / are there for about $700?  Setback or no, some of their shape
definition / manipulation capabilities are still unequaled by software
costing several to many times as much and they weren't chargeing users
annual "maintenance" or "subscription" fees while they were playing catch
up.  To each his own ...

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:10:12 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I went and took a look
>at the Rhino newsgroup... same old posters. Don't see much of a
>change... yawn.

  Folks that can actually use the software?

  LOL .....
-- 
Cliff

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:59:35 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>AGLib

  Did someone just feed poor clueless a new buzzword to choke on?

  LOL ... 
-- 
Cliff

> >Should be nobody left on the Rhino NG either
>
> Rhino fills a void right now but that void is going to dissapear as more
> solid modelers become better hybrid modelers.

Hmm, seem to remember similar statements when you were on your "Concepts"
run - what was it - a year ago?  BTW, what void precisely does Rhino fill,
actually? The sole reason for it's continued existence?  Like to hear it
from you.

I went and took a look
> at the Rhino newsgroup... same old posters. Don't see much of a
> change... yawn.

LOL.  You maybe know a half dozen names you've seen before.  If you don't
count OT topics on AMC, the Rhino group has a whole lot more posts daily
than here.  Since I left last night at 7PM to 9AM this morning, there were
90 new posts.  Lots of newbies and names I've never seen before, some new
"regulars" etc...

Of course, there is the VX forum on cadchat.  Same old posters - Jon Banquer
and Jon Banquer (replying to his own post).  Now that's *really* exciting.
<G>

> >Why are all those "product loyalists" so loyal?
>
> Because it fills a void and because McNeel does a good job of
> stroking them while delivering a rate of development that is very,
> very, very slow.

You think development is slow?  I get a new V4 WIP about every two to three
weeks.  And new plug-ins, add-ons, scripts, macros for V3 are posted almost
every day.  Virtually all free, too.  Honestly, I don't have the time to try
even half of them.

--
Cheers,

--Mitch

> ....  I get a new V4 WIP about every two to three .....

Think you've touched on one reason the program has developed a loyal,
trusting following; open Alpha and Beta testing discussed on a public forum
vs. the Secret Squirrel stuff that goes on in the MCAD world.  Guess that's
a luxury that can only be afforded by those that fill a (pretty big) void?

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:24:34 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>Of course, there is the VX forum on cadchat.  Same old posters - Jon Banquer
>and Jon Banquer (replying to his own post).  Now that's *really* exciting.
><G>

  Well, he requested it in response to his own "post" ....... is he
confused again yet? Had many warnings from the BBS operator?
-- 
Cliff

I can only go on the inomation provided, but poor you, even we can afford to 
pay for a cleaner, lol
But I am impressed about the robotics, something I have been wanting to get 
into myself for a long time.
Are these run from a pc, or are they stand alone?
No luck with the pay rise :-(
Sorry to have got you defensive.
Well have a good day and please get a cleaner , scrubbing bogs out is not 
nice, lol


"Bing" <bingersFU2@knology.net> wrote in message 
news:Xns95E8B4200FA87bingersFU2knologynet@63.223.5.244...
> "pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in
> news:ct0hu8$oaa$1@news.freedom2surf.net:
>
>> Right, I can see the differences here, you are involved in making just
>> moulds, where I have to design and have to know about:-
>> worldwide standards and pressure directives
>
> Heh, the following is highly bragadocious of which is fine, but you
> obviously dont know me or what I do each day.
> Which is OK. But next time do some research.
>
>> Stress analysis
> Yep
>
>> Sheetmetal
> Yep
>
>> Engineering
> Well, duh.
>
>> Microprocessors
> Not design.
>
>> Circuit board and wiring layouts
> I've rolled my own before. But if yer designing them then you got one on
> me.
>
>> Pipework
> Well, water/oil/air.
>
>> Hydraulics
> Ayuppers. Molds are kind of inherent to hydraulics. Tee hee
>
>> Workshop manuals
> Na, I aint a good writer. Plus I dont have a secretary or sidekick.
>
>> Operating manuals
> Same as above
>
>> Service parts and manuals
> And above
>
>> Sales literature
> Yea, I do order my own business cards from time to time. :)
>
>> Basically everything from the idea to the finished working product,
>> sales department and then on to the servicing side.
> WOW. How kewl!
> I'm proud of ya!
>
>> All this with one sidekick!
> Bing wonders who or what that is?
>
>> Gee, must be great, just to have one job!
> I wouldnt know.
>
>> Blimey, I did't realize I done that much  :-O, I must ask for another
>> pay rise :-P
>
> I would if I were you.
> Personally I accept that I made my own prison.
>
> You did forgit about running a shop with 8 people to manage though.
> You also forgot about quoting, direct sales, neumatics, metalluragy,
> actually running machines, programming, training, MIS, process flow,
> robotics, resin recommendation and processing, answering the phones,
> board meetings, cleaning the toilets, etc.
>
> So I think you got me a bit wrong in yer assesment.
>
> Next time do a little research.
>
> Bing
> 

"pete" <petefa@petefa.f2s.com> wrote in
news:ct67do$8r5$1@news.freedom2surf.net: 

> I can only go on the inomation provided, but poor you, even we can
> afford to pay for a cleaner, lol
> But I am impressed about the robotics, something I have been wanting
> to get into myself for a long time.
> Are these run from a pc, or are they stand alone?
> No luck with the pay rise :-(
> Sorry to have got you defensive.
> Well have a good day and please get a cleaner , scrubbing bogs out is
> not nice, lol

Yea, but then again in another sense I really dont mind cleanin a toilet 
for what I make. :)

We use proprietary systems built into their controls. I have had to learn 
them in that manner as the pressmen set them up as well and we interface 
them into the presses.

Mostly what I am concerned with them is with cycle time, error control etc.

I also have to make sure the robotics themselves can handle the cycle duty 
and the heat so I confer with their engineering department alot.

We have 3 axis including sprue pickers built in with secondary neumatic 
control that do something non related to the robot but thats top secret. I 
cant comment further.

If yer looking for a good resource for robotics ask Anthony. He's got alot 
of study under his belt in that area.

Bing

Mitch wrote:
> > I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now
I'm
> > sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into
VX (or
> > maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino,
Vellum
> Argon,
> > and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm
sure you
> can
> > fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have
import
> > settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>
> OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.
> --
> Cheers,

Mitch & jb,
How did this all work out?
Did jb fix the part automatically with VX properly?
It seems rather quiet .....
-- 
Cliff

"Jeff Howard" <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:A4kJd.4729$YD5.1078@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > McNeel were never honest with their users about this
> > and what it would entail. Turned out this set McNeel
> > back 2 years. They never even told their users in the
> > beginning how extensivley AGLib was integrated into ...
>
> Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see them as
> being dishonest about it.  Just how superficially would one expect the
> foundation of the program be "integrated"?  At any rate what alternatives
> were / are there for about $700?  Setback or no, some of their shape
> definition / manipulation capabilities are still unequaled by software
> costing several to many times as much and they weren't chargeing users
> annual "maintenance" or "subscription" fees while they were playing catch
> up.  To each his own ...
>

> Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see them as
> being dishonest about it.

I do. So do others.

BTW, how do you develop a VAR network when you sell software for
$700 ? :>)

I do agree that there are elements or Rhino that are excellent. What I
don't agree with is that it's a complete package.

Like you said, to each his own.

Can you point me to any of your posts in the McNeel newsgroup where
you ask for features that are found in ICEM Surf ? Have you used
ICEM Surf ?

jon

"Jeff Howard" <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jurJd.5378$r27.924@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > ....  I get a new V4 WIP about every two to three .....
>
> Think you've touched on one reason the program has developed a loyal,
> trusting following; open Alpha and Beta testing discussed on a public
forum
> vs. the Secret Squirrel stuff that goes on in the MCAD world.  Guess
that's
> a luxury that can only be afforded by those that fill a (pretty big) void?
>

While McNeel does some very good things that others now do as well
(Concepts has an open web board and does open beta testing) they still
play many of the same Secret Squirrel games.

Too bad more users don't have the balls to be more proactive in regards
to the "Secret Squirrel" shit that is in FACT the norm in CAD/CAM.

jon

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f60269_2@news.bluewin.ch...
> > >Should be nobody left on the Rhino NG either
> >
> > Rhino fills a void right now but that void is going to dissapear as more
> > solid modelers become better hybrid modelers.
>
> Hmm, seem to remember similar statements when you were on your "Concepts"
> run - what was it - a year ago?  BTW, what void precisely does Rhino fill,
> actually? The sole reason for it's continued existence?  Like to hear it
> from you.
>
> I went and took a look
> > at the Rhino newsgroup... same old posters. Don't see much of a
> > change... yawn.
>
> LOL.  You maybe know a half dozen names you've seen before.  If you don't
> count OT topics on AMC, the Rhino group has a whole lot more posts daily
> than here.  Since I left last night at 7PM to 9AM this morning, there were
> 90 new posts.  Lots of newbies and names I've never seen before, some new
> "regulars" etc...
>
> Of course, there is the VX forum on cadchat.  Same old posters - Jon
>Banquer and Jon Banquer (replying to his own post).  Now that's *really*
exciting.
> <G>
>
> > >Why are all those "product loyalists" so loyal?
> >
> > Because it fills a void and because McNeel does a good job of
> > stroking them while delivering a rate of development that is very,
> > very, very slow.
>
> You think development is slow?  I get a new V4 WIP about every two to
three
> weeks.  And new plug-ins, add-ons, scripts, macros for V3 are posted
almost
> every day.  Virtually all free, too.  Honestly, I don't have the time to
try
> even half of them.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> --Mitch
>
>

> Of course, there is the VX forum on cadchat.  Same old posters - Jon
>Banquer and Jon Banquer (replying to his own post).  Now that's *really*
>exciting. <G>

The VX Forum on www.cadchat.com was started a few days ago and already
someone posted asking for some opinions on  VX. Not a bad start. :>) Of
course a successful independant VX forum is probably not what a lot of
people want. ;>) Probably take a good year to get it going. You seem to
have a problem with this. Any reason why, Mitch ? I note that you also
have a problem with Michael Gailey and of course me. Any reason
why you feel so threatened ? Was it easier when it was just me that
questioned Rhino's development ?

> Hmm, seem to remember similar statements when you were on your "Concepts"
> run - what was it - a year ago?

 Concepts runs on a Mac. Does Rhino ?

I already answered your other questions many times before and doing so again
would just bore me to tears.

jon

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35r3uuF4n6qm3U1@individual.net...
>
> "Jeff Howard" <jeff4136@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:A4kJd.4729$YD5.1078@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > McNeel were never honest with their users about this
> > > and what it would entail. Turned out this set McNeel
> > > back 2 years. They never even told their users in the
> > > beginning how extensivley AGLib was integrated into ...
> >
> > Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see them as
> > being dishonest about it.  Just how superficially would one expect the
> > foundation of the program be "integrated"?  At any rate what
alternatives
> > were / are there for about $700?  Setback or no, some of their shape
> > definition / manipulation capabilities are still unequaled by software
> > costing several to many times as much and they weren't chargeing users
> > annual "maintenance" or "subscription" fees while they were playing
catch
> > up.  To each his own ...
> >
>
> > Well, I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see them as
> > being dishonest about it.
>
> I do. So do others.
>
> BTW, how do you develop a VAR network when you sell software for
> $700 ? :>)
>
> I do agree that there are elements or Rhino that are excellent. What I
> don't agree with is that it's a complete package.
>
> Like you said, to each his own.
>
> Can you point me to any of your posts in the McNeel newsgroup where
> you ask for features that are found in ICEM Surf ? Have you used
> ICEM Surf ?
>
> jon
>
>
>
> I do agree that there are elements or Rhino that are excellent. What I
> don't agree with is that it's a complete package.

BTW, Any idea how easy it is to do a remove and replaces face(s) in
VX ? Incredibly easy, very powerful.

Apparently this tool STILL won't be in Rhino V4.

???

!!!!

Just another example of how incomplete I feel Rhino is.

I don't know about you but I find this to be a very useful and very powerful
tool that I would not want to do without... er you are doing without.
Never mind.

Perhaps download VX and see what your missing ? :>)

jon

> The VX Forum on www.cadchat.com was started a few days ago and already
> someone posted asking for some opinions on  VX. Not a bad start. :>) Of
> course a successful independant VX forum is probably not what a lot of
> people want. ;>)

Why not?  If not a lot of people want it what does that mean?

Probably take a good year to get it going. You seem to
> have a problem with this. Any reason why, Mitch ?

Not at all, it's none of my business...  Go for it.

> I note that you also have a problem with Michael Gailey

I have absolutely no problem with Michael (you may be confusing me with
Cliff).  I had a few conversations off-line with him at the time he publicly
quit the Rhino forum, I understand perfectly his reasons, and I have no
problem with them at all, only the style in which it was done, which I have
already posted.  My feeling is if you're gong to go, just go, no need to
make a public scene about it, unless the real reason is just to call
attention to yourself.

> and of course me. Any reason why you feel so threatened ?

I have no problem with you either, otherwise I wouldn't even respond to your
posts. I certainly don't feel threatened at all.  I just like to throw in a
little perspective to your otherwise one-sided and occasionally ridiculous
arguments.

> Was it easier when it was just me that questioned Rhino's development ?

Actually I respect Michael's criticisms of the software more than yours, as
he actually does use the stuff to make parts and his observations are based
on real experiences.  You seem to spend a lot of time hyping one program or
another at the expense of some other programs, do you actually make anything
with them?

> > Hmm, seem to remember similar statements when you were on your
"Concepts"
> > run - what was it - a year ago?
>
>  Concepts runs on a Mac. Does Rhino ?

And your point is...  ?

--Mitch

> > BTW, how do you develop a VAR network when you sell software for
> > $700 ? :>)

That's just the point - why do you need an "official" VAR network?  That
just makes the program more expensive, restricts competition and often
forces you to have to deal with one person responsible for your area,
whether you like them or not.  With the Rhino distribution model, you can
buy anywhere in the US, and get your support from anyone in the US (even if
you din't buy it from them), including the home office.

Nobody's geting rich selling or supporting Rhino.  A lot of people (like me)
do it because they simply like to do it and like the software and the
company.


> > I do agree that there are elements or Rhino that are excellent. What I
> > don't agree with is that it's a complete package.

A complete mCAD packge it's not - never will be - that's not it's intention.

> > Like you said, to each his own.

> BTW, Any idea how easy it is to do a remove and replaces face(s) in
> VX ? Incredibly easy, very powerful.
>
> Apparently this tool STILL won't be in Rhino V4.

Again, wrong.  This tool already exists in partial form as a bonus tool you
can plug in to V3.  That means that it's being tested for V4 inclusion.

BTW, how do you know what will be in V4?   Got a crystal ball?
--

--Mitch

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:59:28 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Secret Squirrel" 

  NEW BUZZWORD ALERT: "Secret Squirrel".

  Burma Shave

HTH
-- 
Cliff

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:02:07 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The VX Forum on www.cadchat.com was started a few days ago and already
>someone posted asking for some opinions on  VX.

  Would that perhaps be you in response to one of your own posts?
  No clues?

  LOL .....
-- 
Cliff

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f89794_3@news.bluewin.ch...
> > The VX Forum on www.cadchat.com was started a few days ago and already
> > someone posted asking for some opinions on  VX. Not a bad start. :>) Of
> > course a successful independant VX forum is probably not what a lot of
> > people want. ;>)
>
> Why not?  If not a lot of people want it what does that mean?
>
> Probably take a good year to get it going. You seem to
> > have a problem with this. Any reason why, Mitch ?
>
> Not at all, it's none of my business...  Go for it.
>
> > I note that you also have a problem with Michael Gailey
>
> I have absolutely no problem with Michael (you may be confusing me with
> Cliff).  I had a few conversations off-line with him at the time he
publicly
> quit the Rhino forum, I understand perfectly his reasons, and I have no
> problem with them at all, only the style in which it was done, which I
have
> already posted.  My feeling is if you're gong to go, just go, no need to
> make a public scene about it, unless the real reason is just to call
> attention to yourself.
>
> > and of course me. Any reason why you feel so threatened ?
>
> I have no problem with you either, otherwise I wouldn't even respond to
your
> posts. I certainly don't feel threatened at all.  I just like to throw in
a
> little perspective to your otherwise one-sided and occasionally ridiculous
> arguments.
>
> > Was it easier when it was just me that questioned Rhino's development ?
>
> Actually I respect Michael's criticisms of the software more than yours,
as
> he actually does use the stuff to make parts and his observations are
based
> on real experiences.  You seem to spend a lot of time hyping one program
or
> another at the expense of some other programs, do you actually make
anything
> with them?
>
> > > Hmm, seem to remember similar statements when you were on your
> "Concepts"
> > > run - what was it - a year ago?
> >
> >  Concepts runs on a Mac. Does Rhino ?
>
> And your point is...  ?
>
> --Mitch
>


> And your point is...  ?

That your a Rhino product loyalist and you refuse to see that
Rhino and it's owner (Bob McNeel) have some very serious flaws.

That your not exactly objective when it comes to Rhino or people
that criticize it or the newsgroup that McNeel fosters.

See if you can find the Margaret Becker post where she has the
chutzpah to say that she welcomes discussion of competeing products
to Rhino. What a crock of shit that was.

jon

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f89b7e_3@news.bluewin.ch...
> > > BTW, how do you develop a VAR network when you sell software for
> > > $700 ? :>)
>
> That's just the point - why do you need an "official" VAR network?  That
> just makes the program more expensive, restricts competition and often
> forces you to have to deal with one person responsible for your area,
> whether you like them or not.  With the Rhino distribution model, you can
> buy anywhere in the US, and get your support from anyone in the US (even
if
> you din't buy it from them), including the home office.
>
> Nobody's geting rich selling or supporting Rhino.  A lot of people (like
me)
> do it because they simply like to do it and like the software and the
> company.
>
>
> > > I do agree that there are elements or Rhino that are excellent. What I
> > > don't agree with is that it's a complete package.
>
> A complete mCAD packge it's not - never will be - that's not it's
intention.
>
> > > Like you said, to each his own.
>
> > BTW, Any idea how easy it is to do a remove and replaces face(s) in
> > VX ? Incredibly easy, very powerful.
> >
> > Apparently this tool STILL won't be in Rhino V4.
>
> Again, wrong.  This tool already exists in partial form as a bonus tool
you
> can plug in to V3.  That means that it's being tested for V4 inclusion.
>
> BTW, how do you know what will be in V4?   Got a crystal ball?
> --
>
> --Mitch
>

> BTW, how do you know what will be in V4?   Got a crystal ball?

A more advanced incomplete product. ;>)

jon

On 26 Jan 2005 01:22:08 -0800, Clhuprich@aol.com wrote:

>
>Mitch wrote:
>> > I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right now
>I'm
>> > sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into
>VX (or
>> > maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino,
>Vellum
>> Argon,
>> > and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm
>sure you
>> can
>> > fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have
>import
>> > settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>>
>> OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.
>> --
>> Cheers,
>
>Mitch & jb,
>How did this all work out?
>Did jb fix the part automatically with VX properly?
>It seems rather quiet .....

  Well, poor clueless came back. With more blurbs from ads.

  I suppose he had problems with IGES & VX ...  so now he's
touting ICEM as the better breadbox .... not that he has any clues
there either it seems.
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:48:50 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>That your a Rhino product loyalist 

  How very amusing.
  Your spelling checker is busted again.

HTH
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:25:27 +0100, "Mitch"
<no_email_desired@this.account> wrote:

>You seem to spend a lot of time hyping one program or
>another at the expense of some other programs, do you actually make anything
>with them?

  Ouch <G>.
-- 
Cliff

> > And your point is...  ?
>
> That your a Rhino product loyalist

Yep, if that means being happy with a product and that it's fun to use and
has made me more money w/respect to its purchase price than any other
software product I own, then yes, I'm certainly a product loyalist...

and you refuse to see that
> Rhino and it's owner (Bob McNeel) have some very serious flaws.

Bob's a great guy.  Had the pleasure of having dinner with him in December,
together with a small group of 'product loyalists" from Europe.

As far as Rhino flaws go, every program has flaws.  As a daily Rhino user,
*I'm* certainly in a far better position than *you* to know exactly what
they are.  But that doesn't prevent me from successfully using the program
in my everyday work to do exactly what I need.

> That your not exactly objective when it comes to Rhino or people
> that criticize it or the newsgroup that McNeel fosters.

And, you, of course, are the pinnacle of objectivity...  LOL.

And again, you are confusing McNeel's privately held newsgroup server whose
primary purpose is to provide support for its users with some public
rant-all-ya-want forum like AMC.  Most people who come to the Rhino
newsgroup rather like the atmosphere.

Not that I'm really fond of quoting Cliff, but as he says, "you are
confused"...

I may be beginning to believe him.

--Mitch

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:02:07 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The VX Forum on www.cadchat.com was started a few days ago and already
>someone posted asking for some opinions on  VX. Not a bad start. :>) 

  Looked like you were looking for help.
  And then failed to respons to the one post (asking about prices was
it?)

>Of
>course a successful independant VX forum is probably not what a lot of
>people want. ;>) Probably take a good year to get it going. 

  I loved this bit from poor clueless:

[
I'm just starting to work with a bunch of imported surface data from
other modelers. Often times these parts are modeled very poorly and
it's often very hard to find all the small gaps in the edges.


One tool that VX has that I really like is the Show All Open Edges
tool. What I like is that you are presented with a dialog box. The
dialog box lets you cycle through all the edge gaps and zoom in on any
of these edge gaps when you push a button to do so. 

VX describes their Show All Open Edges tool this way:

  <snip copied blurb>
]

  Now, how's he going to use the new VX (free) demo to fix anything?
  IIRC HE CANNOT SAVE THE PART !!!

  Poor clueless  ... caught yet again. Pretending to be able
to use something as well as to have his famed "bad data".
-- 
Cliff

"Mitch" <no_email_desired@this.account> wrote in message
news:41f8c553$1_1@news.bluewin.ch...
>
> > > And your point is...  ?
> >
> > That your a Rhino product loyalist
>
> Yep, if that means being happy with a product and that it's fun to use and
> has made me more money w/respect to its purchase price than any other
> software product I own, then yes, I'm certainly a product loyalist...
>
> and you refuse to see that
> > Rhino and it's owner (Bob McNeel) have some very serious flaws.
>
> Bob's a great guy.  Had the pleasure of having dinner with him in
December,
> together with a small group of 'product loyalists" from Europe.
>
> As far as Rhino flaws go, every program has flaws.  As a daily Rhino user,
> *I'm* certainly in a far better position than *you* to know exactly what
> they are.  But that doesn't prevent me from successfully using the program
> in my everyday work to do exactly what I need.
>
> > That your not exactly objective when it comes to Rhino or people
> > that criticize it or the newsgroup that McNeel fosters.
>
> And, you, of course, are the pinnacle of objectivity...  LOL.
>
> And again, you are confusing McNeel's privately held newsgroup server
whose
> primary purpose is to provide support for its users with some public
> rant-all-ya-want forum like AMC.  Most people who come to the Rhino
> newsgroup rather like the atmosphere.
>
> Not that I'm really fond of quoting Cliff, but as he says, "you are
> confused"...
>
> I may be beginning to believe him.
>
> --Mitch
>

>Bob's a great guy.  Had the pleasure of having dinner with him in
>December, together with a small group of 'product loyalists" from
>Europe.

Well I'll be.... I guess Bob's Your Uncle ! ;>)

"As far as Rhino flaws go, every program has flaws.  As a daily Rhino user,
*I'm* certainly in a far better position than *you* to know exactly what
they are"

I'm smart enough to use a more complete modeler. Your not.

> I may be beginning to believe him.

I'm beginning to believe you and "The Virus" are meant for each other. ;>)
Any chance you can give "The Virus" a job cause for years no one wanted
to hire "The Virus" even though he had his resume posted all over the
internet.

I wonder why ? ;>)



jon

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:51:25 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/solidworks/select/cadcamnet_proe_vs_solidw
>orks.htm

  "The page you have requested has either moved or does not exist."

>"Although SolidWorks enables adjacent lofted surfaces to be tangent,
>it can't assure continuous curvature (C2) between two surfaces"
>
>Is this fixed in SolidWorks 2005 ?

  AND you had reading comprehension problems again,
right?

  "However, only the best systems can produce surfaces 
that can be joined with C2 continuity under a wide range of
conditions. Pro/Engineer Wildfire maintains C2 continuity between
adjacent surfaces under more conditions than SolidWorks 2004."

  My, but that seemed a bit dated .....

HTH
-- 
Cliff

"jon banquer" <jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:360kc7F4rbmvhU1@individual.net...
>
> "garibaldi" <gari@nonono.net> wrote in message
> news:nJEKd.13885$Vj3.12495@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> > Cliff wrote:
> > > snip <
> > >   Now, how's he going to use the new VX (free) demo to fix anything?
> > >   IIRC HE CANNOT SAVE THE PART !!!
> > >
> >
> > Hey Cliff,
> >
> > Can you say "print screen"?
> >
> > <G>
>
> Can *you* say "Camtasia" ?
>
> http://www.techsmith.com/products/studio/default.asp
>
> Since you love Pro/E and tout it can you show us how you  move control
> points on a NURB spline in Pro/E and have the curvature comb update in
real
> time.
>
> Think this feature might be helpful ? <G>
>
> jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Clhuprich@aol.com wrote:
> Mitch wrote:
> > > I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right
now
> I'm
> > > sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into
> VX (or
> > > maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino,
> Vellum
> > Argon,
> > > and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm
> sure you
> > can
> > > fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have
> import
> > > settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
> >
> > OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.

> Mitch & jb,
> How did this all work out?
> Did jb fix the part automatically with VX properly?
> It seems rather quiet .....

Mitch,
We can only assume that, as usual, poor clueless was really
clueless & full of his usual endless BS yet again. After all,
it's been some time and he did not "put up" it seems.
Did he even TRY to send you back an IGES file with it
all fixed with his magic software (claimed) demo?

I trust that all know jb does not even actually even have
to have a limited or canned demo to get confused or to copy
& post things from ads or vendor Sites (or from the posts of
others).
Once again clueless jb eats the dust ...... LOL ....
-- 
Cliff

On 29 Jan 2005 04:42:03 -0800, Clhuprich@aol.com wrote:

>
>Clhuprich@aol.com wrote:
>> Mitch wrote:
>> > > I'll be happy to send you one when I have time to test.  Right
>now
>> I'm
>> > > sending you a tiny little IGES file that doesn't import well into
>> VX (or
>> > > maybe I did something wrong).  It comes in just fine in Rhino,
>> Vellum
>> > Argon,
>> > > and Surfcam (the only other programs I have here to test).  I'm
>> sure you
>> > can
>> > > fix it, though, it's not complicated.  Let me know if you have
>> import
>> > > settings or tools that fix it automatically, I'd like to know.
>> >
>> > OK, you're e-mail doesn't work, let me know where to send the file.
>
>> Mitch & jb,
>> How did this all work out?
>> Did jb fix the part automatically with VX properly?
>> It seems rather quiet .....
>
>Mitch,
>We can only assume that, as usual, poor clueless was really
>clueless & full of his usual endless BS yet again. After all,
>it's been some time and he did not "put up" it seems.
>Did he even TRY to send you back an IGES file with it
>all fixed with his magic software (claimed) demo?
>
>I trust that all know jb does not even actually even have
>to have a limited or canned demo to get confused or to copy
>& post things from ads or vendor Sites (or from the posts of
>others).
>Once again clueless jb eats the dust ...... LOL ....

  Looks like he failed to put up yet again, after all that
yammering.
  No shock there. Same old same old.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:42:58 -0500, Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote:

>  Looks like he failed to put up yet again, after all that
>yammering.
>  No shock there. Same old same old.

  Yep.
-- 
Cliff

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
>fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn something
>that I don't know now.

  Well, jb .......
  Are you going to put up or stop the endless yammering?
-- 
Cliff

On 29 Jan 2005 04:42:03 -0800, Clhuprich@aol.com wrote:

>We can only assume that, as usual, poor clueless was really
>clueless & full of his usual endless BS yet again. After all,
>it's been some time and he did not "put up" it seems.

  Find anyone to sell you any clues yet, jb?
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 03:58:08 -0500, Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
><jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
>>fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn something
>>that I don't know now.
>
>  Well, jb .......
>  Are you going to put up or stop the endless yammering?

  Well, jb .......
  Are you EVER going to put up just ONCE?
-- 
Cliff

John if you were truly sincere in your concern for me you could have
just sent an email directly to me. I am sure Cliff has my email address
as well as my Social Security number and the name and age of my 5th
grade teacher. As BottlBob has already pointed out, that post was put
up in anger and contains nothing but lies. If Jon had ever done any of
those things he and I would be divorced and I would not trust Jon
enough to leave with him everything I own while I "take a vacation" at
the John E. Polk Correctional Spa. If YOU are a man of your word and
you TRULY care what became of Constance, then by all means write me and
ask me. I tried to send this to you privately, but it bounced back and
I don't have the kind of time Cliff does for stalking, I mean for
tracking you down.

For a better picture than the one Cliff so eagerly sent you just follow
the link below... I call it my not incarcertated picture, Oh and I am
5ft even.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/sunshinegiirrl

Oh, and John I am actually a paranoid perpetual liar only 97.5 percent
of the time.  

Constance

Arizona Girrl wrote:
> 
> As BottlBob has already pointed out, that post was put
> up in anger and contains nothing but lies. If Jon had ever done any of
> those things he and I would be divorced and I would not trust Jon
> enough to leave with him everything I own while I "take a vacation" at
> the John E. Polk Correctional Spa. 


Constance:

	Hey, how are you doing?  I didn't know correctional institutions gave
their inmates internet access, there was no such access when I was in
Folsom.
	Not to pry, but how long is your sentence?  Do you get any time off for
good behavior? 
	If you need a character reference letter, or some such to aid your
release, just let me know.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

Thanks Bottlebob. I am out now and fine. I was just in jail and they
dismissed my charges. I appreciate the offer for the letter but
hopefully I won't need it.

Constance

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:51:25 -0700, "jon banquer"
<jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Although SolidWorks enables adjacent lofted surfaces to be tangent,
>it can't assure continuous curvature (C2) between two surfaces"
>
>Is this fixed in SolidWorks 2005 ?
>
>No problem making faces tangent continuous in VX.

  And is that "C2"?
-- 
Cliff

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 03:58:08 -0500, Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:15:41 -0700, "jon banquer"
><jonSeamlessUnifiedHybridbanquer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I await a file from you that you think can not be fixed in VX and can be
>>fixed in Rhino as I would enjoy the challenge and perhaps learn something
>>that I don't know now.
>
>  Well, jb .......
>  Are you going to put up or stop the endless yammering?

  STILL no response from jb?

  LOL ...
-- 
Cliff

> John Scheldroupwrote

>
> I become curious to ask a question to Cliff  Remember Constance 
> could I have emailed this response to Cliff, sure I could have, bu
> more importantly, whatever did happen to Constance, as in remembe
> whatever it was that provoked such an outburst, remember tha
Cliff
> so does anyone besides Cliff know whatever became of Constance
> does anyone care whatever became of Constance ?
>
> Were one of these contain an ounce of truth, can't say that I kno
> for sure, but I sure would like to know whatever became o
Constance
>
> Joh

John if you were truly sincere in your concern for me you could hav
just sent an email directly to me. I am sure Cliff has my emai
address as well as my Social Security number and the name and age o
my 5th grade teacher. As BottlBob has already pointed out, that pos
was put up in anger and contains nothing but lies. If Jon had eve
done any of those things he and I would be divorced and I would no
trust Jon enough to leave with him everything I own while I "take 
vacation" at the John E. Polk Correctional Spa. If YOU are a man o
your word and you TRULY care what became of Constance, then by al
means write me and ask me. I tried to send this to you privately, bu
it bounced back and I don't have the kind of time Cliff does fo
stalking, I mean for tracking you down.

For a better picture than the one Cliff so eagerly sent you jus
follow the link below... I call it my not incarcertated picture, O
and I am 5ft even

http://profiles.yahoo.com/sunshinegiirr

Oh, and John I am actually a paranoid perpetual liar only 97.5 percen
of the time.  :wink:

Constanc

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 04:04:20 -0600,
arizonagirrl@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (ConstanceBanquer) wrote:

>Oh, and John

  Actually, John very rarely posts to this NG and I doubt
thet he even lurks at all here.
  And jb should very well have his Email address as
you should well know (jb?).

HTH
-- 
Cliff