f



Visual Objects compared to Visual Basic and Visual C.

Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?

With kind regards
Rob van der Ploeg



0
Mobi
12/2/2003 11:13:11 AM
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Rob,
Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are all
wrappers around the Win32 API.

VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is famous
with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged array's.
and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to declare every
variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can write
your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own classes,
Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write early and
late bound code
VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO written in
VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is answered
within hours.
VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl. with very
often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best organised
usergroup in the world.
VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but withoot a
releasedate yet.

More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com


regards,

Erik

"Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
>
> With kind regards
> Rob van der Ploeg
>
>
>


0
Erik
12/2/2003 1:03:31 PM
Erik Visser schrieb in <bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de>: 

> VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but
> withoot a releasedate yet.

You could use CULE for the .NET stuff:
http://www.softwareperspectives.com

-- 
Joachim Duerr
EMEA Lead ADS Support, Extended Systems GmbH, Germany
advantage[AT]extendsys.de
- posted with Xananews 1.15.8.2 -
!!! ADS 7 now available !!!
0
Joachim
12/2/2003 1:27:05 PM
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:13:11 +0100, "Mobi-Data Helpdesk"
<info@direcom.nl> wrote:

>Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
>of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?

VO is vastly superiour! Ask Gary, Jamie and Graham <g>.

I think it depends on what your past experience is and what you want
to do with it. Object Oriented programming is well arranged in VO. If
you come from xBase languages, learning OOP is the difficult part but
it will help that the syntax is comparable to the xBase languages.

In general, VB is not the best choice in terms of program design and
options. VO has a pretty comfortable IDE and allows you to program
almost everything. You can however not program multi-platform (for
that you need a .NET language), altough there have been solutions for
making Linux code from VO source. Some options are missing in the
current VO version (like Unicode support), but either there is a
workaround or it is planned in future versions.


Dick van Kooten
0
kooten
12/2/2003 1:51:24 PM
Rob,

Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)

FUNCTION Start()
    ? "Hello world"
RETURN

In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would think
that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer your
question.

Frans

P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)

"Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
>
> With kind regards
> Rob van der Ploeg
>
>
>


0
FDW
12/2/2003 6:24:33 PM
Ahhh.  Nothing like a terminal output statement to show the advantages of
VO.

"FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
>
> Rob,
>
> Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
>
> FUNCTION Start()
>     ? "Hello world"
> RETURN
>
> In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
think
> that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer your
> question.
>
> Frans
>
> P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
>
> "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> >
> > With kind regards
> > Rob van der Ploeg
> >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Jamie
12/2/2003 8:38:08 PM
Hey Jamie, why don't show us what you have done in your other favorite languages!

Jamal

"Jamie Macleod" <bubamacleod@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QK6zb.92127$oN2.21426@edtnps84...
> Ahhh.  Nothing like a terminal output statement to show the advantages of
> VO.
>
> "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> >
> > FUNCTION Start()
> >     ? "Hello world"
> > RETURN
> >
> > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
> think
> > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer your
> > question.
> >
> > Frans
> >
> > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> >
> > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > >
> > > With kind regards
> > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Jamal
12/2/2003 9:00:02 PM
Jamal,

I guess you mean something like this?

class Test
{
   static void Main()
   {
        System.Console.WriteLine("Hello world.");
    }
}
<g>

Of course, you could also write it all on one line too if that's too long
:
class Test{static void Main(){System.Console.WriteLine("Hello world.");}}

-- 
Ginny


"Jamal Assaf" <#vodotnot#@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bqiugt$20roae$1@ID-203539.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hey Jamie, why don't show us what you have done in your other favorite
languages!
>
> Jamal
>
> "Jamie Macleod" <bubamacleod@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:QK6zb.92127$oN2.21426@edtnps84...
> > Ahhh.  Nothing like a terminal output statement to show the advantages
of
> > VO.
> >
> > "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> > news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> > >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> > >
> > > FUNCTION Start()
> > >     ? "Hello world"
> > > RETURN
> > >
> > > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
> > think
> > > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
your
> > > question.
> > >
> > > Frans
> > >
> > > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> > >
> > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > >
> > > > With kind regards
> > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Ginny
12/2/2003 9:18:01 PM
Ginny,

I meant a complete application or maybe a demo he's written that can't be in VO. I am not
talking about .NET yet!
Don't forget Ginny, VO has its own console class, so:

Function Start()

LOCAL oCon as Console
oCon := Console{}
oCon:Write("Hello World!")

Jamal

"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
news:bqiv1t$22t4gq$1@ID-144704.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Jamal,
>
> I guess you mean something like this?
>
> class Test
> {
>    static void Main()
>    {
>         System.Console.WriteLine("Hello world.");
>     }
> }
> <g>
>
> Of course, you could also write it all on one line too if that's too long
> :
> class Test{static void Main(){System.Console.WriteLine("Hello world.");}}
>
> -- 
> Ginny
>
>
> "Jamal Assaf" <#vodotnot#@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bqiugt$20roae$1@ID-203539.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Hey Jamie, why don't show us what you have done in your other favorite
> languages!
> >
> > Jamal
> >
> > "Jamie Macleod" <bubamacleod@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:QK6zb.92127$oN2.21426@edtnps84...
> > > Ahhh.  Nothing like a terminal output statement to show the advantages
> of
> > > VO.
> > >
> > > "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> > > >
> > > > Rob,
> > > >
> > > > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> > > >
> > > > FUNCTION Start()
> > > >     ? "Hello world"
> > > > RETURN
> > > >
> > > > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
> > > think
> > > > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
> your
> > > > question.
> > > >
> > > > Frans
> > > >
> > > > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> > > >
> > > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > > >
> > > > > With kind regards
> > > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Jamal
12/2/2003 9:45:38 PM
Well, if it's brevity we're going for, how about:

void main()
{
    cout << "Hello world"
}

or, as Ginny stated:

void main(){ cout << "Hello world"; }

Also, since he's going through the decision process right now, I would
imagine he would purchase VB.Net and not just plain old VB if it came to
Visual Basic.  Hence, in VB.Net:

Sub Main( )
    Console.WriteLine("Hello world")
End Sub

Should suffice.

These don't seem any more or less complicated than:

FUNCTION Start()
    ? "Hello world"
RETURN


And, Rob,

>Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
>of VB or VC?

no one will tell you that you "have" to use one or the other.  It
depends on your needs.

Greg


0
Greg
12/2/2003 10:19:42 PM
Rob,

Mobi-Data Helpdesk wrote:

> Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?

There's no complsion to use an of these products. The correct answer is
probably along the lines of "what feels right for you, given the
specific business problems that you're trying to solve".


VC is a very low level language, very powerful, but often requires a lot
of code in order to get things done.

VB is quite high level, very good and powerful, object based (that's
based, not oriented) and very popular. Well supported by Microsoft, and
you can do many things very easily with it.

VO is somewhere between the two, fully object oriented with a very
elegant language. If you have a lot of xBase code to convert, then it
may be a more natural progression in terms of the language as well as
the underlying code and database support, but again, this comes back to
the specifics of the business problems you need to address.

Both VO and VB are very productive tools in the hands of a competent
developer, but other questions also arise : What is your level of
competency and comfort with programming within the Windows platform?
Similarly, what is your level of competency and comfort with event
driven programming?

These questions may be pertinent to your original question; your
learning curve for any of the nominated environments may be affected by
your need to learn OOP, events and/or Windows. Once you have mastered
those concepts, jumping from VO to VB (or vice versa) becomes a
relatively non-issue.


--
g.
Gary Stark
gstark@RedbacksWeb.com
http://RedbacksWeb.com


0
Gary
12/3/2003 12:00:54 AM
Hi Jamal,

> I meant a complete application or maybe a demo he's written that can't be
in VO. I am not
> talking about .NET yet!

Oh, I thought you meant something console like the Hello world example.

> Don't forget Ginny, VO has its own console class, so:

Of course - I use it in many demos for conference presentations since it
keeps the amount of code small compared with a GUI app. I do prefer the .Net
Console class over VO's though since it's static and therefore doesn't
require instantiation - more like VO's QOut() or ? operator.

Ginny



0
Ginny
12/3/2003 12:22:39 AM
Luckily we do not do this in VO, C encourage bad programming <g>

Regards
TSDing

> Try doing this in VO;) It's a valid C program.
>
> #include <stdio.h>
> main(t,_,a)char *a;{return!0<t?t<3?main(-79,-13,a+main(-87,1-_,
> main(-86,0,a+1)+a)):1,t<_?main(t+1,_,a):3,main(-94,-27+t,a)&&t==2?_<13?
> main(2,_+1,"%s %d %d\n"):9:16:t<0?t<-72?main(_,t,
> "@n'+,#'/*{}w+/w#cdnr/+,{}r/*de}+,/*{*+,/w{%+,/w#q#n+,/#{l+,/n{n+,/+#n+,
> /#\
> ;#q#n+,/+k#;*+,/'r :'d*'3,}{w+K w'K:'+}e#';dq#'l \
> q#'+d'K#!/+k#;q#'r}eKK#}w'r}eKK{nl]'/#;#q#n'){)#}w'){){nl]'/+#n';d}rw'
> i;# \
> ){nl]!/n{n#'; r{#w'r nc{nl]'/#{l,+'K {rw' iK{;[{nl]'/w#q#n'wk nw' \
> iwk{KK{nl]!/w{%'l##w#' i; :{nl]'/*{q#'ld;r'}{nlwb!/*de}'c \
> ;;{nl'-{}rw]'/+,}##'*}#nc,',#nw]'/+kd'+e}+;#'rdq#w! nr'/ ') }+}{rl#'{n'
> ')# \
> }'+}##(!!/")
> :t<-50?_==*a?putchar(31[a]):main(-65,_,a+1):main((*a=='/')+t,_,a+1)
>   :0<t?main(2,2,"%s"):*a=='/'||main(0,main(-61,*a,
> "!ek;dc i@bK'(q)-[w]*%n+r3#l,{}:\nuwloca-O;m
> .vpbks,fxntdCeghiry"),a+1);}


0
TSDing
12/3/2003 1:30:26 AM
FDW schrieb in <bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl>: 

> Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> 
> FUNCTION Start()
>     ? "Hello world"
> RETURN

Try doing this in VO;) It's a valid C program.

#include <stdio.h>
main(t,_,a)char *a;{return!0<t?t<3?main(-79,-13,a+main(-87,1-_,
main(-86,0,a+1)+a)):1,t<_?main(t+1,_,a):3,main(-94,-27+t,a)&&t==2?_<13?
main(2,_+1,"%s %d %d\n"):9:16:t<0?t<-72?main(_,t,
"@n'+,#'/*{}w+/w#cdnr/+,{}r/*de}+,/*{*+,/w{%+,/w#q#n+,/#{l+,/n{n+,/+#n+,
/#\
;#q#n+,/+k#;*+,/'r :'d*'3,}{w+K w'K:'+}e#';dq#'l \
q#'+d'K#!/+k#;q#'r}eKK#}w'r}eKK{nl]'/#;#q#n'){)#}w'){){nl]'/+#n';d}rw'
i;# \
){nl]!/n{n#'; r{#w'r nc{nl]'/#{l,+'K {rw' iK{;[{nl]'/w#q#n'wk nw' \
iwk{KK{nl]!/w{%'l##w#' i; :{nl]'/*{q#'ld;r'}{nlwb!/*de}'c \
;;{nl'-{}rw]'/+,}##'*}#nc,',#nw]'/+kd'+e}+;#'rdq#w! nr'/ ') }+}{rl#'{n'
')# \
}'+}##(!!/")
:t<-50?_==*a?putchar(31[a]):main(-65,_,a+1):main((*a=='/')+t,_,a+1)
  :0<t?main(2,2,"%s"):*a=='/'||main(0,main(-61,*a,
"!ek;dc i@bK'(q)-[w]*%n+r3#l,{}:\nuwloca-O;m
..vpbks,fxntdCeghiry"),a+1);}

-- 
Joachim Duerr
EMEA Lead ADS Support, Extended Systems GmbH, Germany
advantage[AT]extendsys.de
- posted with Xananews 1.15.8.2 -
!!! ADS 7 now available !!!
0
Joachim
12/3/2003 8:28:18 AM
Well i am not a C programmer but if i try to compile this in VC5 i get this:

Compiling...
Cpp1.cpp
C:\Cpp1.cpp(2) : error C2065: 't' : undeclared identifier
C:\Cpp1.cpp(2) : error C2065: '_' : undeclared identifier
C:\Cpp1.cpp(2) : error C2065: 'a' : undeclared identifier
C:\Cpp1.cpp(2) : error C2448: 'main' : function-style initializer appears to
be a function definition
C:\Cpp1.cpp(2) : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
Error executing cl.exe.

Cpp1.obj - 5 error(s), 0 warning(s)


This can be done in VO too <g>

Erik


"Joachim Duerr" <jojo.duerr@gmx.de> schreef in bericht
news:bqk6r2$23vqkp$1@ID-162076.news.uni-berlin.de...
> FDW schrieb in <bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl>:
>
> > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> >
> > FUNCTION Start()
> >     ? "Hello world"
> > RETURN
>
> Try doing this in VO;) It's a valid C program.
>
> #include <stdio.h>
> main(t,_,a)char *a;{return!0<t?t<3?main(-79,-13,a+main(-87,1-_,
> main(-86,0,a+1)+a)):1,t<_?main(t+1,_,a):3,main(-94,-27+t,a)&&t==2?_<13?
> main(2,_+1,"%s %d %d\n"):9:16:t<0?t<-72?main(_,t,
> "@n'+,#'/*{}w+/w#cdnr/+,{}r/*de}+,/*{*+,/w{%+,/w#q#n+,/#{l+,/n{n+,/+#n+,
> /#\
> ;#q#n+,/+k#;*+,/'r :'d*'3,}{w+K w'K:'+}e#';dq#'l \
> q#'+d'K#!/+k#;q#'r}eKK#}w'r}eKK{nl]'/#;#q#n'){)#}w'){){nl]'/+#n';d}rw'
> i;# \
> ){nl]!/n{n#'; r{#w'r nc{nl]'/#{l,+'K {rw' iK{;[{nl]'/w#q#n'wk nw' \
> iwk{KK{nl]!/w{%'l##w#' i; :{nl]'/*{q#'ld;r'}{nlwb!/*de}'c \
> ;;{nl'-{}rw]'/+,}##'*}#nc,',#nw]'/+kd'+e}+;#'rdq#w! nr'/ ') }+}{rl#'{n'
> ')# \
> }'+}##(!!/")
> :t<-50?_==*a?putchar(31[a]):main(-65,_,a+1):main((*a=='/')+t,_,a+1)
>   :0<t?main(2,2,"%s"):*a=='/'||main(0,main(-61,*a,
> "!ek;dc i@bK'(q)-[w]*%n+r3#l,{}:\nuwloca-O;m
> .vpbks,fxntdCeghiry"),a+1);}
>
> -- 
> Joachim Duerr
> EMEA Lead ADS Support, Extended Systems GmbH, Germany
> advantage[AT]extendsys.de
> - posted with Xananews 1.15.8.2 -
> !!! ADS 7 now available !!!


0
Erik
12/3/2003 8:46:40 AM
Rob,

All of the replies are valid.  But for me personally I think the
codeblock and macro-compilation makes for a far superior product.

If you are interested in developing "data-driven" applications (or as
I prefer to call it "active meta-data repository") I don't think there
are any Windoze product that compares.  I have some products that
creates virtual objects, include OO equation parsers and wrappers
classes, I can go on for a whole day...

I have a data-driven engine serving 20+ applications including OCX
controls, GRAPHICS4VO, FabPaint, and a few others.  The EXE is around
3.5M and total installation still fits in compressed form on 4 X 1.4M
Stiffy's, plus one additional stiffy for the data-dictionary.  The
only .DLL's used are those supplied by VO and 3RD party vendors.  What
I like about the VO option is also that you don't really need
installion software (in my case).  Just copy the necessary EXE and
DLL's in one folder, your data in your preferred folder, make the
necessary changes in an .INI (I still prefer it above the REGISTRY)
and off you go.

My two cents worth.

Johan Nel
Pretoria, South Africa.

"Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message news:<1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl>...
> Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> 
> With kind regards
> Rob van der Ploeg
0
johan
12/3/2003 8:53:25 AM
Hi, Rob

> Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?

No one can explain this, even for himself <g>

Usually we are using the tools which we know well and/or like most. I
beleive that all of lised (VO, VB and VC) allows you to reach needed
results. But cost will be different depending of what you want to get.

Denis


0
Denis
12/3/2003 9:24:45 AM
Hi, Joachim

If possibility to write absolutely messed but valid code is advantage of
compiler, you won. But also you can try Lisp amd Forth. You'll like it

Denis

> Try doing this in VO;) It's a valid C program.
>
> #include <stdio.h>
> main(t,_,a)char *a;{return!0<t?t<3?main(-79,-13,a+main(-87,1-_,
> main(-86,0,a+1)+a)):1,t<_?main(t+1,_,a):3,main(-94,-27+t,a)&&t==2?_<13?
> main(2,_+1,"%s %d %d\n"):9:16:t<0?t<-72?main(_,t,
> "@n'+,#'/*{}w+/w#cdnr/+,{}r/*de}+,/*{*+,/w{%+,/w#q#n+,/#{l+,/n{n+,/+#n+,
> /#\
> ;#q#n+,/+k#;*+,/'r :'d*'3,}{w+K w'K:'+}e#';dq#'l \
> q#'+d'K#!/+k#;q#'r}eKK#}w'r}eKK{nl]'/#;#q#n'){)#}w'){){nl]'/+#n';d}rw'
> i;# \
> ){nl]!/n{n#'; r{#w'r nc{nl]'/#{l,+'K {rw' iK{;[{nl]'/w#q#n'wk nw' \
> iwk{KK{nl]!/w{%'l##w#' i; :{nl]'/*{q#'ld;r'}{nlwb!/*de}'c \
> ;;{nl'-{}rw]'/+,}##'*}#nc,',#nw]'/+kd'+e}+;#'rdq#w! nr'/ ') }+}{rl#'{n'
> ')# \
> }'+}##(!!/")
> :t<-50?_==*a?putchar(31[a]):main(-65,_,a+1):main((*a=='/')+t,_,a+1)
>   :0<t?main(2,2,"%s"):*a=='/'||main(0,main(-61,*a,
> "!ek;dc i@bK'(q)-[w]*%n+r3#l,{}:\nuwloca-O;m
> .vpbks,fxntdCeghiry"),a+1);}



0
Denis
12/3/2003 9:32:34 AM
All,

The point of the example was, "The syntax is different", if you try the
example given you will get all sorts of compile ( and maybe even runtime ;)
errors when VC or VB are used. I am sure that there are a lot of programming
languages that can do it with even less programming effort ;) [ Like
NSBasic: '? "Hello world"' ]

Frans

P.s.

Could also be written as:

FUNCTION Start();? "Hello world";RETURN

"FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
>
> Rob,
>
> Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
>
> FUNCTION Start()
>     ? "Hello world"
> RETURN
>
> In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
think
> that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer your
> question.
>
> Frans
>
> P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
>
> "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> >
> > With kind regards
> > Rob van der Ploeg
> >
> >
> >
>
>


0
FDW
12/3/2003 11:32:01 AM
> Could also be written as:
> 
> FUNCTION Start();? "Hello world";RETURN

Or as:

func Start();? "Hello world"

:)

0
Igor
12/3/2003 11:41:36 AM
Even that ;)

"Igor Kaliniak" <rem4intech\at/gal.ukrpack.net> wrote in message
news:3fcdcece.0@news.ukrpack.net...
> > Could also be written as:
> >
> > FUNCTION Start();? "Hello world";RETURN
>
> Or as:
>
> func Start();? "Hello world"
>
> :)
>


0
FDW
12/3/2003 11:53:38 AM
Public Module Start

    Public Sub main()

        Console.WriteLine("Hello World")

    End Sub

By the way the console window in Vb.Net you can scroll and copy data from
it.

Regards,
Rob Panosh

"FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
>
> Rob,
>
> Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
>
> FUNCTION Start()
>     ? "Hello world"
> RETURN
>
> In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
think
> that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer your
> question.
>
> Frans
>
> P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
>
> "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> >
> > With kind regards
> > Rob van der Ploeg
> >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Rob
12/3/2003 12:25:28 PM
>>VO is somewhere between the two, fully object oriented with a very
How can you make this statement?  Have you ever programmed in another (fully
object oriented) language?  VO doesn't not support Overloading or Shadowing
show how can it be fully object oriented.   I agree with you VO has been a
good language and has served its purpose for many years but unless there are
dramatic changes ( VO 2.7 yet to be released) in the lanauge I can't see
using it for future developement.

Rob Panosh



"Gary Stark" <Bogus4Swen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3FCD27B6.9CD61BE7@yahoo.com...
> Rob,
>
> Mobi-Data Helpdesk wrote:
>
> > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
>
> There's no complsion to use an of these products. The correct answer is
> probably along the lines of "what feels right for you, given the
> specific business problems that you're trying to solve".
>
>
> VC is a very low level language, very powerful, but often requires a lot
> of code in order to get things done.
>
> VB is quite high level, very good and powerful, object based (that's
> based, not oriented) and very popular. Well supported by Microsoft, and
> you can do many things very easily with it.
>
> VO is somewhere between the two, fully object oriented with a very
> elegant language. If you have a lot of xBase code to convert, then it
> may be a more natural progression in terms of the language as well as
> the underlying code and database support, but again, this comes back to
> the specifics of the business problems you need to address.
>
> Both VO and VB are very productive tools in the hands of a competent
> developer, but other questions also arise : What is your level of
> competency and comfort with programming within the Windows platform?
> Similarly, what is your level of competency and comfort with event
> driven programming?
>
> These questions may be pertinent to your original question; your
> learning curve for any of the nominated environments may be affected by
> your need to learn OOP, events and/or Windows. Once you have mastered
> those concepts, jumping from VO to VB (or vice versa) becomes a
> relatively non-issue.
>
>
> --
> g.
> Gary Stark
> gstark@RedbacksWeb.com
> http://RedbacksWeb.com
>
>


0
Rob
12/3/2003 12:34:06 PM
>>Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can write
>>your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
classes,
>>Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write early
and
>>late bound code
If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be using
VB 6, the you are dead wrong here.
VB.NET OPP is far superior than Visual Objects. Visual objects doesn't
support overloading, shadowing, interfaces, and many more options when
defining classes.

Rob


"Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
news:bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Rob,
> Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are all
> wrappers around the Win32 API.
>
> VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is famous
> with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged array's.
> and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to declare every
> variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
> Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can write
> your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
classes,
> Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write early
and
> late bound code
> VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO written in
> VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
> With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is answered
> within hours.
> VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl. with very
> often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best organised
> usergroup in the world.
> VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but withoot
a
> releasedate yet.
>
> More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com
>
>
> regards,
>
> Erik
>
> "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
> news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> >
> > With kind regards
> > Rob van der Ploeg
> >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Rob
12/3/2003 12:35:29 PM
> If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be using
> VB 6,
I do not know why also, but i think 98%  of the VB programmers does.

If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a little
behind with a .NET version.
But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.

Erik


"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef in
bericht news:3fcdddbe$1@news.splitrock.net...
> >>Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
write
> >>your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> classes,
> >>Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write early
> and
> >>late bound code
> If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be using
> VB 6, the you are dead wrong here.
> VB.NET OPP is far superior than Visual Objects. Visual objects doesn't
> support overloading, shadowing, interfaces, and many more options when
> defining classes.
>
> Rob
>
>
> "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> news:bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Rob,
> > Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are all
> > wrappers around the Win32 API.
> >
> > VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is
famous
> > with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged
array's.
> > and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to declare
every
> > variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
> > Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
write
> > your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> classes,
> > Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write early
> and
> > late bound code
> > VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO written
in
> > VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
> > With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is answered
> > within hours.
> > VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl. with
very
> > often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best organised
> > usergroup in the world.
> > VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but
withoot
> a
> > releasedate yet.
> >
> > More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com
> >
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
> > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > >
> > > With kind regards
> > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Erik
12/3/2003 12:47:27 PM
> If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a little
> behind with a .NET version.
A little?  alot ...

> But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
If you are refering to VO 3.0  ... You better put it on your Christmas list
and maybe Santa will use a little of his magic and make your wish come true
.... any maybe you believe in Santa.

Cheers,
Rob

"Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
news:bqkluo$23pi1g$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
using
> > VB 6,
> I do not know why also, but i think 98%  of the VB programmers does.
>
> If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a little
> behind with a .NET version.
> But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
>
> Erik
>
>
> "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef in
> bericht news:3fcdddbe$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > >>Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
> write
> > >>your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > classes,
> > >>Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
early
> > and
> > >>late bound code
> > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
using
> > VB 6, the you are dead wrong here.
> > VB.NET OPP is far superior than Visual Objects. Visual objects doesn't
> > support overloading, shadowing, interfaces, and many more options when
> > defining classes.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> > news:bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > Rob,
> > > Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are all
> > > wrappers around the Win32 API.
> > >
> > > VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is
> famous
> > > with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged
> array's.
> > > and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to declare
> every
> > > variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
> > > Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
> write
> > > your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > classes,
> > > Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
early
> > and
> > > late bound code
> > > VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO
written
> in
> > > VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
> > > With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is
answered
> > > within hours.
> > > VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl. with
> very
> > > often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best
organised
> > > usergroup in the world.
> > > VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but
> withoot
> > a
> > > releasedate yet.
> > >
> > > More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Erik
> > >
> > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
> > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > >
> > > > With kind regards
> > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Rob
12/3/2003 1:04:24 PM
Rob

Rob Panosh wrote:

> >>VO is somewhere between the two, fully object oriented with a very
> How can you make this statement?

Very easily.


> Have you ever programmed in another (fully
> object oriented) language?

Yes.


> VO doesn't not support Overloading or Shadowing

>
> show how can it be fully object oriented.

Those concepts are certainly desirable features to have, and while they are
missing from VO (as is multiple inheritance), they do not change my view - which
is all that was asked for, and it's what I have stated - that it's a fully
object oriented language.

As you know, overloading can be easily emulated in VO, so it's not really a
loss.

But you're certainly free to disagree if you wish; I'm certainly not going to
lose any sleep whatsoever if you do.


--
g.
Gary Stark
gstark@RedbacksWeb.com
http://RedbacksWeb.com


0
Gary
12/3/2003 3:00:22 PM
Hope springs eternal. <bg>

"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
message news:3fcde485$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a
little
> > behind with a .NET version.
> A little?  alot ...
>
> > But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
> If you are refering to VO 3.0  ... You better put it on your Christmas
list
> and maybe Santa will use a little of his magic and make your wish come
true
> ... any maybe you believe in Santa.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> news:bqkluo$23pi1g$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
> using
> > > VB 6,
> > I do not know why also, but i think 98%  of the VB programmers does.
> >
> > If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a
little
> > behind with a .NET version.
> > But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
> >
> > Erik
> >
> >
> > "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef in
> > bericht news:3fcdddbe$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > >>Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
> > write
> > > >>your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > > classes,
> > > >>Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
> early
> > > and
> > > >>late bound code
> > > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
> using
> > > VB 6, the you are dead wrong here.
> > > VB.NET OPP is far superior than Visual Objects. Visual objects doesn't
> > > support overloading, shadowing, interfaces, and many more options when
> > > defining classes.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > Rob,
> > > > Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are all

> > > > wrappers around the Win32 API.
> > > >
> > > > VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is
> > famous
> > > > with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged
> > array's.
> > > > and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to declare
> > every
> > > > variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
> > > > Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
> > write
> > > > your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > > classes,
> > > > Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
> early
> > > and
> > > > late bound code
> > > > VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO
> written
> > in
> > > > VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
> > > > With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is
> answered
> > > > within hours.
> > > > VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl. with
> > very
> > > > often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best
> organised
> > > > usergroup in the world.
> > > > VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but
> > withoot
> > > a
> > > > releasedate yet.
> > > >
> > > > More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > >
> > > > Erik
> > > >
> > > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
> > > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > > >
> > > > > With kind regards
> > > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Jamie
12/3/2003 3:04:46 PM
I can understand your disapointment. But take yourself serious and go away.
Use VS and be happy.

Erik

"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef in
bericht news:3fcde485$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a
little
> > behind with a .NET version.
> A little?  alot ...
>
> > But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
> If you are refering to VO 3.0  ... You better put it on your Christmas
list
> and maybe Santa will use a little of his magic and make your wish come
true
> ... any maybe you believe in Santa.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> news:bqkluo$23pi1g$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
> using
> > > VB 6,
> > I do not know why also, but i think 98%  of the VB programmers does.
> >
> > If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a
little
> > behind with a .NET version.
> > But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
> >
> > Erik
> >
> >
> > "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef in
> > bericht news:3fcdddbe$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > >>Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
> > write
> > > >>your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > > classes,
> > > >>Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
> early
> > > and
> > > >>late bound code
> > > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
> using
> > > VB 6, the you are dead wrong here.
> > > VB.NET OPP is far superior than Visual Objects. Visual objects doesn't
> > > support overloading, shadowing, interfaces, and many more options when
> > > defining classes.
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > Rob,
> > > > Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are all
> > > > wrappers around the Win32 API.
> > > >
> > > > VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is
> > famous
> > > > with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged
> > array's.
> > > > and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to declare
> > every
> > > > variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
> > > > Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You can
> > write
> > > > your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > > classes,
> > > > Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
> early
> > > and
> > > > late bound code
> > > > VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO
> written
> > in
> > > > VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
> > > > With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is
> answered
> > > > within hours.
> > > > VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl. with
> > very
> > > > often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best
> organised
> > > > usergroup in the world.
> > > > VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but
> > withoot
> > > a
> > > > releasedate yet.
> > > >
> > > > More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > >
> > > > Erik
> > > >
> > > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
> > > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > > >
> > > > > With kind regards
> > > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Erik
12/3/2003 3:32:20 PM
Erik,

Unfortunately I cannot go away because I still have many clients using our
product coded in VO.  Also we have a few client that have a large amout of
customizations and they will never upgrade to our new VS .Net version.  So
hopefully VO 2.7 will fit our needs for those few customers.

Cheers,
Rob

P.S. - I put VO 3.0 on my Christmas List ;)


"Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
news:bqkvjt$23kmsv$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I can understand your disapointment. But take yourself serious and go
away.
> Use VS and be happy.
>
> Erik
>
> "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef in
> bericht news:3fcde485$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a
> little
> > > behind with a .NET version.
> > A little?  alot ...
> >
> > > But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
> > If you are refering to VO 3.0  ... You better put it on your Christmas
> list
> > and maybe Santa will use a little of his magic and make your wish come
> true
> > ... any maybe you believe in Santa.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob
> >
> > "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> > news:bqkluo$23pi1g$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
> > using
> > > > VB 6,
> > > I do not know why also, but i think 98%  of the VB programmers does.
> > >
> > > If you do not have a memory leak yourself, you might rember VO is a
> little
> > > behind with a .NET version.
> > > But as soon as it is there, it will have the stuff you mention.
> > >
> > > Erik
> > >
> > >
> > > "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> schreef
in
> > > bericht news:3fcdddbe$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > > >>Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You
can
> > > write
> > > > >>your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > > > classes,
> > > > >>Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
> > early
> > > > and
> > > > >>late bound code
> > > > If you are refering to VB.Net, don't know why anybody would still be
> > using
> > > > VB 6, the you are dead wrong here.
> > > > VB.NET OPP is far superior than Visual Objects. Visual objects
doesn't
> > > > support overloading, shadowing, interfaces, and many more options
when
> > > > defining classes.
> > > >
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Erik Visser" <evisser@wilg.nl> wrote in message
> > > > news:bqi2gv$22gsen$1@ID-206424.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > Rob,
> > > > > Every language has his (dis)advantages. The ones you mention are
all
> > > > > wrappers around the Win32 API.
> > > > >
> > > > > VO is a very nice and easy language compared to VC. Data-access is
> > > famous
> > > > > with VO, but also memorymanagement, the cargage collector, ragged
> > > array's.
> > > > > and the result is fast and reliable code. You do not have to
declare
> > > every
> > > > > variable if you do not want to. (but you will)
> > > > > Comparing to VB is VO a real OOP langangue where VB is not. You
can
> > > write
> > > > > your own classes, inherit classes from VO classes or from your own
> > > > classes,
> > > > > Overide methods, use both strong and loose typed variables, write
> > early
> > > > and
> > > > > late bound code
> > > > > VO comes with a SDK containing the sourcecode of the part of VO
> > written
> > > in
> > > > > VO (almost everything except f.i. the compiler)
> > > > > With VO you get this newsgroup, where almost every question is
> > answered
> > > > > within hours.
> > > > > VO has a prof. usergroup in the netherlands, check www.sdgn.nl.
with
> > > very
> > > > > often very well organised conferences. I think it is the best
> > organised
> > > > > usergroup in the world.
> > > > > VO is limitted to the Win32 api. A .NET version is announced, but
> > > withoot
> > > > a
> > > > > releasedate yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > More inforrmation about VO can be found at www.cavo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Erik
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> schreef in bericht
> > > > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With kind regards
> > > > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Rob
12/3/2003 3:57:15 PM
if VS/VB/C# is so good, then it should be easy for you to do conversion for
your VO apps to VS/VB/C# and you will be very happy. Why still suffer with
VO ? Unless of cos, VS/VB/C# is NOT as powerful and it is not as easy as
promoted.

Regards
TSDing

"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
message news:3fce0d0b@news.splitrock.net...
> Erik,
>
> Unfortunately I cannot go away because I still have many clients using our
> product coded in VO.  Also we have a few client that have a large amout of
> customizations and they will never upgrade to our new VS .Net version.  So
> hopefully VO 2.7 will fit our needs for those few customers.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> P.S. - I put VO 3.0 on my Christmas List ;)


0
TSDing
12/3/2003 4:23:25 PM
Jezz Rob, VB code is ugly. If you are going .Net why would you want to do in
VB, instead of C#. I can't  believe coming from VO, you went with VB.

Graham


"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
message news:3fcddb65$1@news.splitrock.net...
> Public Module Start
>
>     Public Sub main()
>
>         Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
>
>     End Sub
>
> By the way the console window in Vb.Net you can scroll and copy data from
> it.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Panosh
>
> "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> >
> > FUNCTION Start()
> >     ? "Hello world"
> > RETURN
> >
> > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
> think
> > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
your
> > question.
> >
> > Frans
> >
> > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> >
> > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > >
> > > With kind regards
> > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Graham
12/3/2003 5:32:15 PM
Graham,

Some people who do a lot of late binding prefer VB.Net because the syntax is
simpler. The main thing you lose in VB.Net compared with C# is the ability
to work with pointers. But, yeah, I think C# is much more aesthetic too. <g>
-- 
Ginny

"Graham McKechnie" <gmk@bignospampond.net.au> wrote in message
news:z6pzb.38065$aT.35685@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Jezz Rob, VB code is ugly. If you are going .Net why would you want to do
in
> VB, instead of C#. I can't  believe coming from VO, you went with VB.
>
> Graham
>
>
> "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> message news:3fcddb65$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > Public Module Start
> >
> >     Public Sub main()
> >
> >         Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
> >
> >     End Sub
> >
> > By the way the console window in Vb.Net you can scroll and copy data
from
> > it.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob Panosh
> >
> > "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> > news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> > >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> > >
> > > FUNCTION Start()
> > >     ? "Hello world"
> > > RETURN
> > >
> > > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
> > think
> > > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
> your
> > > question.
> > >
> > > Frans
> > >
> > > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> > >
> > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > >
> > > > With kind regards
> > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Ginny
12/3/2003 6:18:25 PM
Ginny,

Well maybe I've got a thing about VB "looks", its verbose and cluttered,
which IMO makes it very ugly. Just can't see the point. I've gven up looking
at VB coded questions on the other forums. Just wish they'd separate them
into two forums

If VB was all there was, I doubt I'd be doing .Net.

Graham


"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
news:bql8t3$20ivkr$1@ID-144704.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Graham,
>
> Some people who do a lot of late binding prefer VB.Net because the syntax
is
> simpler. The main thing you lose in VB.Net compared with C# is the ability
> to work with pointers. But, yeah, I think C# is much more aesthetic too.
<g>
> -- 
> Ginny
>
> "Graham McKechnie" <gmk@bignospampond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:z6pzb.38065$aT.35685@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > Jezz Rob, VB code is ugly. If you are going .Net why would you want to
do
> in
> > VB, instead of C#. I can't  believe coming from VO, you went with VB.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> > "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> > message news:3fcddb65$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > Public Module Start
> > >
> > >     Public Sub main()
> > >
> > >         Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
> > >
> > >     End Sub
> > >
> > > By the way the console window in Vb.Net you can scroll and copy data
> from
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Rob Panosh
> > >
> > > "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> > > >
> > > > Rob,
> > > >
> > > > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> > > >
> > > > FUNCTION Start()
> > > >     ? "Hello world"
> > > > RETURN
> > > >
> > > > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I
would
> > > think
> > > > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
> > your
> > > > question.
> > > >
> > > > Frans
> > > >
> > > > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> > > >
> > > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > > >
> > > > > With kind regards
> > > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Graham
12/3/2003 8:18:36 PM
Hi Graham,

> at VB coded questions on the other forums. Just wish they'd separate them
> into two forums

I'll pass that suggestion along and see how it goes. They have separated the
desktop newsgroups, but what they're looking for there is language issues
rather than general issues expressed in a particular language (although last
time I looked they were still getting both). Still, there are probably
others who do feel the same way.

> If VB was all there was, I doubt I'd be doing .Net.

What would you do instead? Java maybe?

Ginny



0
Ginny
12/3/2003 8:35:01 PM
Wow! This is a switch - VO Programmers bad mouthing VB because it's not
esthetically pleasing.  As a long-time VO/VB/C#/Clipper/C developer, I've
seen (and participated) in similar rails regarding VO.  It's still an empty
argument because it involves only opinion.

I personally prefer VB over C# because I have more experience in VB.  Does
that make me less of a programmer?  I think not.  What little difference
between these languages that remains in .NET is largely minor syntax
variances (and pointers).  Good programs can be written in C#, VB, VO,
Clipper, C++, and Assembler; so can bad ones.

There's enough of this "mine-is-better" garbage going on in the Microsoft
forums.

"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
news:bqlgt7$237c5h$1@ID-144704.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hi Graham,
>
> > at VB coded questions on the other forums. Just wish they'd separate
them
> > into two forums
>
> I'll pass that suggestion along and see how it goes. They have separated
the
> desktop newsgroups, but what they're looking for there is language issues
> rather than general issues expressed in a particular language (although
last
> time I looked they were still getting both). Still, there are probably
> others who do feel the same way.
>
> > If VB was all there was, I doubt I'd be doing .Net.
>
> What would you do instead? Java maybe?
>
> Ginny
>
>
>


0
Steve
12/3/2003 9:57:04 PM
Hi Steve,

> Wow! This is a switch - VO Programmers bad mouthing VB because it's not
> esthetically pleasing.  As a long-time VO/VB/C#/Clipper/C developer, I've
> seen (and participated) in similar rails regarding VO.  It's still an
empty
> argument because it involves only opinion.

Of course. Beauty is still in the eye of the beholder, and we all have our
prejudices.

> I personally prefer VB over C# because I have more experience in VB.  Does
> that make me less of a programmer?  I think not.

Again I agree.

  What little difference
> between these languages that remains in .NET is largely minor syntax
> variances (and pointers).

Exactly.

> There's enough of this "mine-is-better" garbage going on in the Microsoft
> forums.

That seems to be abating these days as far as I can tell. I think the source
(pun intended) of all that was that most of the early samples for .Net were
written in C#. Most of Microsoft's own developers are from a C background
and naturally prefer C#, but they seem to be under orders to show examples
equally in VB these days. It's still a little amusing though to watch these
guys trying to write VB.Net code and automatically ending each line with a
semicolon, then backspacing to remove it. <g>

Ginny


0
Ginny
12/3/2003 10:16:02 PM
Ginny,

> What would you do instead? Java maybe?

Haven't even thought about it<g>. Don't even want to now!!!!

To be honest, it was reading about C# that got me interested in .Net, not
the other way around. C# right from day 1, looked like the natural
replacement for VO for me, and as VO was dying, that looked like a life
saver.

I'm sure glad I did, or I never would have started working with these cool
devices which just open up a whole new world of really interesting
programming. Having tools for both platforms PPC and Palm, makes me feel
comfortable, because I don't mind swapping between C and C#. I suppose I
should learn Java too, because of all the phone stuff, but Java doesn't do
it for me yet.

Desktop apps do tend to have a sort of "sameness" about them and I guess I
was looking for something different.

Graham


"Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
news:bqlgt7$237c5h$1@ID-144704.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hi Graham,
>
> > at VB coded questions on the other forums. Just wish they'd separate
them
> > into two forums
>
> I'll pass that suggestion along and see how it goes. They have separated
the
> desktop newsgroups, but what they're looking for there is language issues
> rather than general issues expressed in a particular language (although
last
> time I looked they were still getting both). Still, there are probably
> others who do feel the same way.
>
> > If VB was all there was, I doubt I'd be doing .Net.
>
> What would you do instead? Java maybe?
>
> Ginny
>
>
>


0
Graham
12/3/2003 10:17:44 PM
Steve,

My comment was not meant to offend.

> It's still an empty  argument because it involves only opinion.

Quite correct, which is what I stated. I just don't happen to like it.

Graham


"Steve Lupton" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Q_szb.7341$Kf2.855@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Wow! This is a switch - VO Programmers bad mouthing VB because it's not
> esthetically pleasing.  As a long-time VO/VB/C#/Clipper/C developer, I've
> seen (and participated) in similar rails regarding VO.  It's still an
empty
> argument because it involves only opinion.
>
> I personally prefer VB over C# because I have more experience in VB.  Does
> that make me less of a programmer?  I think not.  What little difference
> between these languages that remains in .NET is largely minor syntax
> variances (and pointers).  Good programs can be written in C#, VB, VO,
> Clipper, C++, and Assembler; so can bad ones.
>
> There's enough of this "mine-is-better" garbage going on in the Microsoft
> forums.
>
> "Ginny Caughey" <ginny.caughey.online@wasteworks.com> wrote in message
> news:bqlgt7$237c5h$1@ID-144704.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Hi Graham,
> >
> > > at VB coded questions on the other forums. Just wish they'd separate
> them
> > > into two forums
> >
> > I'll pass that suggestion along and see how it goes. They have separated
> the
> > desktop newsgroups, but what they're looking for there is language
issues
> > rather than general issues expressed in a particular language (although
> last
> > time I looked they were still getting both). Still, there are probably
> > others who do feel the same way.
> >
> > > If VB was all there was, I doubt I'd be doing .Net.
> >
> > What would you do instead? Java maybe?
> >
> > Ginny
> >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Graham
12/4/2003 12:05:10 AM
Hi Graham,

> > What would you do instead? Java maybe?
>
> Haven't even thought about it<g>. Don't even want to now!!!!

I do know the feeling.

> I'm sure glad I did, or I never would have started working with these cool
> devices which just open up a whole new world of really interesting
> programming. Having tools for both platforms PPC and Palm, makes me feel
> comfortable, because I don't mind swapping between C and C#. I suppose I
> should learn Java too, because of all the phone stuff, but Java doesn't do
> it for me yet.

There is or will be phone stuff on Compact Framework too, so maybe that's
still a good place to be. SmartPhone2 isn't available in the US yet, but I'm
hoping to get my hands on a loaner so I can start working with it. By the
time we finally get retail ones, they'll probably have 64Mb RAM. <g>

>
> Desktop apps do tend to have a sort of "sameness" about them and I guess I
> was looking for something different.

Well yes, up until Longhorn anyway. <g>

Ginny


0
Ginny
12/4/2003 2:03:46 AM
Thats good for you :) might not be true for everyone.

> The only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more
powerful
> applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and in
half
> the time.
>
> Rob


0
TSDing
12/4/2003 6:20:51 AM
TSDing,

I thought Rob just told us exactly why, he still needed VO. I doubt he
thinks your last sentence is accurate though.

Graham

"TSDing" <dingts_removethis_@pc.jaring.my> wrote in message
news:3fce7c09_2@news.tm.net.my...
>
> if VS/VB/C# is so good, then it should be easy for you to do conversion
for
> your VO apps to VS/VB/C# and you will be very happy. Why still suffer with
> VO ? Unless of cos, VS/VB/C# is NOT as powerful and it is not as easy as
> promoted.
>
> Regards
> TSDing
>
> "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> message news:3fce0d0b@news.splitrock.net...
> > Erik,
> >
> > Unfortunately I cannot go away because I still have many clients using
our
> > product coded in VO.  Also we have a few client that have a large amout
of
> > customizations and they will never upgrade to our new VS .Net version.
So
> > hopefully VO 2.7 will fit our needs for those few customers.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob
> >
> > P.S. - I put VO 3.0 on my Christmas List ;)
>
>


0
Graham
12/4/2003 8:34:26 AM
Graham,

> ..., because I don't mind swapping between C and C#. I suppose I
> should learn Java too, because of all the phone stuff, but Java doesn't do
> it for me yet.

I think you'll like it - "pure" OOP, broad range of "applicability", good
data access, lots of helpful usergroups, etc., etc., plus excellent support
and documentation from Sun, IBM and Borland. I'd recommend the Deitel &
Deitel books: very didatic and in color (!).

Marcos Nogueira
S. Paulo - Brazil


0
Marcos
12/4/2003 11:35:28 AM
                                        "active meta-data repository"

This is a good one.

If any of the marketing people of CA only had known this item years ago, the
VO-story could have been a great success-story comparable to other products.
But they did not know (and not understand) and so they failed to explain
potiential customers why to buy this "ugly" Visual Object instead of  pretty
Visual Basic.

In fact, I have been in a ca-roadshow where CA people show us (clipper
heads) clicking and dropping with the mouse to build applications with VO
until there comes the question from the auditors:

can i write any program code with VO?

This was the beginning of a no-success-story

 So sorry.

J�rg Bertram


0
jbertram
12/4/2003 11:59:35 AM
Graham,

I agree VB 6 code is very ugly because it is not object oriented.  Have you
even taken a look at VB.NET?  Personally I like the verboseness of VB.NET.
I actually did take a look at C#.NET and didn't like the syntax at all.  The
only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more powerful
applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and in half
the time.

Rob

"Graham McKechnie" <gmk@bignospampond.net.au> wrote in message
news:z6pzb.38065$aT.35685@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Jezz Rob, VB code is ugly. If you are going .Net why would you want to do
in
> VB, instead of C#. I can't  believe coming from VO, you went with VB.
>
> Graham
>
>
> "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> message news:3fcddb65$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > Public Module Start
> >
> >     Public Sub main()
> >
> >         Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
> >
> >     End Sub
> >
> > By the way the console window in Vb.Net you can scroll and copy data
from
> > it.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob Panosh
> >
> > "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> > news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> > >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> > >
> > > FUNCTION Start()
> > >     ? "Hello world"
> > > RETURN
> > >
> > > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I would
> > think
> > > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
> your
> > > question.
> > >
> > > Frans
> > >
> > > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> > >
> > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > >
> > > > With kind regards
> > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Rob
12/4/2003 12:20:06 PM
> I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep whatsoever if you do.
Neither am I.

Cheers,
Rob Panosh

"Gary Stark" <Bogus4Swen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3FCDFA85.3505F5E6@yahoo.com...
> Rob
>
> Rob Panosh wrote:
>
> > >>VO is somewhere between the two, fully object oriented with a very
> > How can you make this statement?
>
> Very easily.
>
>
> > Have you ever programmed in another (fully
> > object oriented) language?
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > VO doesn't not support Overloading or Shadowing
>
> >
> > show how can it be fully object oriented.
>
> Those concepts are certainly desirable features to have, and while they
are
> missing from VO (as is multiple inheritance), they do not change my view -
which
> is all that was asked for, and it's what I have stated - that it's a fully
> object oriented language.
>
> As you know, overloading can be easily emulated in VO, so it's not really
a
> loss.
>
> But you're certainly free to disagree if you wish; I'm certainly not going
to
> lose any sleep whatsoever if you do.
>
>
> --
> g.
> Gary Stark
> gstark@RedbacksWeb.com
> http://RedbacksWeb.com
>
>


0
Rob
12/4/2003 12:21:49 PM
>  The
> only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more powerful
> applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and in
half
> the time.

Surely that depends what your VO v VB.net efficiency ratio is like with how
good someone else is at VO? All you are really able to say is that you are
more
capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone else is
at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.

Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
impressions.

Cheers...

Will Chapman


0
Will
12/4/2003 2:07:19 PM
> Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
> impressions.
Don't consider this to be foolish or an argument.  People have made
statements, read the complete thread, that VO could do things that VB
counldn't.

> capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone else
is
> at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
My statements are based on the developers in our company on how thier
productivity has gone up since making the switch.  So I guess it isn't valid
for me to assume that other developers, outside our shop, wouldn't see the
same results.  By the way we probably have the largest VO shop in North
America.

Cheers,
Rob Panosh

"Will Chapman" <qbuster@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3fcf4005$0$25667$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
>
> >  The
> > only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more powerful
> > applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and in
> half
> > the time.
>
> Surely that depends what your VO v VB.net efficiency ratio is like with
how
> good someone else is at VO? All you are really able to say is that you are
> more
> capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone else
is
> at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
>
> Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
> impressions.
>
> Cheers...
>
> Will Chapman
>
>


0
Rob
12/4/2003 2:32:03 PM
Hi Rob,

>>Have you  even taken a look at VB.NET?

Its a touch hard to miss it, if you are using Visual Studio all day and
doing the usual on MS .dotnet.framework user groups

>>Personally I like the verboseness of VB.NET.

and that is where we disagree<g>

> The  only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more
powerful
> applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and in
half
> the time.

Now that statement is going to get a few noses out of joint around here. You
will probably have to explain how to this lot here. Good luck!!!

Graham



"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
message news:3fcf2bad$1@news.splitrock.net...
> Graham,
>
> I agree VB 6 code is very ugly because it is not object oriented.  Have
you
> even taken a look at VB.NET?  Personally I like the verboseness of VB.NET.
> I actually did take a look at C#.NET and didn't like the syntax at all.
The
> only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more powerful
> applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and in
half
> the time.
>
> Rob
>
> "Graham McKechnie" <gmk@bignospampond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:z6pzb.38065$aT.35685@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > Jezz Rob, VB code is ugly. If you are going .Net why would you want to
do
> in
> > VB, instead of C#. I can't  believe coming from VO, you went with VB.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> > "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> > message news:3fcddb65$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > Public Module Start
> > >
> > >     Public Sub main()
> > >
> > >         Console.WriteLine("Hello World")
> > >
> > >     End Sub
> > >
> > > By the way the console window in Vb.Net you can scroll and copy data
> from
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Rob Panosh
> > >
> > > "FDW" <fdewit_remove_@planet.nl> wrote in message
> > > news:bqilhe$3nf$1@reader10.wxs.nl...
> > > >
> > > > Rob,
> > > >
> > > > Try doing this in VB or VC and you will know the difference ;)
> > > >
> > > > FUNCTION Start()
> > > >     ? "Hello world"
> > > > RETURN
> > > >
> > > > In the past there have been numerous threads on this subject, I
would
> > > think
> > > > that a quick google search will give you all that you need to answer
> > your
> > > > question.
> > > >
> > > > Frans
> > > >
> > > > P.s. If you have found the answer, let us know ;)
> > > >
> > > > "Mobi-Data Helpdesk" <info@direcom.nl> wrote in message
> > > > news:1070360435.358105@tbird.introweb.nl...
> > > > > Who can explain me why I have to use VO instead
> > > > > of VB or VC? OR is is there no difference?
> > > > >
> > > > > With kind regards
> > > > > Rob van der Ploeg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Graham
12/4/2003 8:53:05 PM
FWIW

I have been looking at the .NET environment and saw some nice surprises.  I
thought "Oh Microsoft are catching up with VO and Delphi, but it'll take
years for the vast majority of VB6 developers (sorry guys you have to admit
there's some very poor VB code out there) to get their heads around OOP".
So VO does what my clients need, I'm very comfortable with the environment,
I also know it's limitations and how to get around them.  Why switch.  I
don't doubt that there are some people who need .NET functionality NOW and
for them I would recommend C#.  People have been saying switch since VO 1.0
beta, I have yet to see any compelling reason and until I do I'll stick with
tools that work and a community that will answer almost any question within
a matter of hours.  I am not a very active member of this NG but is my first
source for information.  I think healthy discussion of new features in any
language is welcomed by everyone, but I am the only one who can determine
what, if anything, will improve my products and my efficiency.

Nigel
"Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
message news:3fcf4a9b$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
> > impressions.
> Don't consider this to be foolish or an argument.  People have made
> statements, read the complete thread, that VO could do things that VB
> counldn't.
>
> > capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone
else
> is
> > at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
> My statements are based on the developers in our company on how thier
> productivity has gone up since making the switch.  So I guess it isn't
valid
> for me to assume that other developers, outside our shop, wouldn't see the
> same results.  By the way we probably have the largest VO shop in North
> America.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob Panosh
>
> "Will Chapman" <qbuster@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:3fcf4005$0$25667$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> >
> > >  The
> > > only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more
powerful
> > > applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and
in
> > half
> > > the time.
> >
> > Surely that depends what your VO v VB.net efficiency ratio is like with
> how
> > good someone else is at VO? All you are really able to say is that you
are
> > more
> > capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone
else
> is
> > at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
> >
> > Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
> > impressions.
> >
> > Cheers...
> >
> > Will Chapman
> >
> >
>
>


0
NSG
12/4/2003 10:51:07 PM
Nigel,

Well said! However, I encourage you (as well as anyone else lurking) to be more active! We
ALL can benefit from each others' knowledge and experience.

Jamal

"NSG" <ngibbons@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:JmQzb.37$dZ1.262412@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...
> FWIW
>
> I have been looking at the .NET environment and saw some nice surprises.  I
> thought "Oh Microsoft are catching up with VO and Delphi, but it'll take
> years for the vast majority of VB6 developers (sorry guys you have to admit
> there's some very poor VB code out there) to get their heads around OOP".
> So VO does what my clients need, I'm very comfortable with the environment,
> I also know it's limitations and how to get around them.  Why switch.  I
> don't doubt that there are some people who need .NET functionality NOW and
> for them I would recommend C#.  People have been saying switch since VO 1.0
> beta, I have yet to see any compelling reason and until I do I'll stick with
> tools that work and a community that will answer almost any question within
> a matter of hours.  I am not a very active member of this NG but is my first
> source for information.  I think healthy discussion of new features in any
> language is welcomed by everyone, but I am the only one who can determine
> what, if anything, will improve my products and my efficiency.
>
> Nigel
> "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> message news:3fcf4a9b$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
> > > impressions.
> > Don't consider this to be foolish or an argument.  People have made
> > statements, read the complete thread, that VO could do things that VB
> > counldn't.
> >
> > > capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone
> else
> > is
> > > at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
> > My statements are based on the developers in our company on how thier
> > productivity has gone up since making the switch.  So I guess it isn't
> valid
> > for me to assume that other developers, outside our shop, wouldn't see the
> > same results.  By the way we probably have the largest VO shop in North
> > America.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob Panosh
> >
> > "Will Chapman" <qbuster@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
> > news:3fcf4005$0$25667$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > >
> > > >  The
> > > > only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more
> powerful
> > > > applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6 and
> in
> > > half
> > > > the time.
> > >
> > > Surely that depends what your VO v VB.net efficiency ratio is like with
> > how
> > > good someone else is at VO? All you are really able to say is that you
> are
> > > more
> > > capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone
> else
> > is
> > > at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
> > >
> > > Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not positive
> > > impressions.
> > >
> > > Cheers...
> > >
> > > Will Chapman
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
Jamal
12/5/2003 12:44:39 AM
Jamal,

You're right, we can all learn, and as I said it's my first point for
reference.  I don't often get involved in discussion for two reasons, I
don't have time to keep up with the NG on a daily basis, and secondly most
of the time I see people have already given pertinent responses.  If I am
working late in the UK (I am often up and about in the small hours) and I
see a new post that I can answer I will.

Regards,


Nigel

"Jamal Assaf" <#vodotnot#@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bqokdo$2177u8$1@ID-203539.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Nigel,
>
> Well said! However, I encourage you (as well as anyone else lurking) to be
more active! We
> ALL can benefit from each others' knowledge and experience.
>
> Jamal
>
> "NSG" <ngibbons@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:JmQzb.37$dZ1.262412@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > FWIW
> >
> > I have been looking at the .NET environment and saw some nice surprises.
I
> > thought "Oh Microsoft are catching up with VO and Delphi, but it'll take
> > years for the vast majority of VB6 developers (sorry guys you have to
admit
> > there's some very poor VB code out there) to get their heads around
OOP".
> > So VO does what my clients need, I'm very comfortable with the
environment,
> > I also know it's limitations and how to get around them.  Why switch.  I
> > don't doubt that there are some people who need .NET functionality NOW
and
> > for them I would recommend C#.  People have been saying switch since VO
1.0
> > beta, I have yet to see any compelling reason and until I do I'll stick
with
> > tools that work and a community that will answer almost any question
within
> > a matter of hours.  I am not a very active member of this NG but is my
first
> > source for information.  I think healthy discussion of new features in
any
> > language is welcomed by everyone, but I am the only one who can
determine
> > what, if anything, will improve my products and my efficiency.
> >
> > Nigel
> > "Rob Panosh" <rob_!!!NO!!!SPAM!!!_panosh@asdsoftadfdware.com> wrote in
> > message news:3fcf4a9b$1@news.splitrock.net...
> > > > Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not
positive
> > > > impressions.
> > > Don't consider this to be foolish or an argument.  People have made
> > > statements, read the complete thread, that VO could do things that VB
> > > counldn't.
> > >
> > > > capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone
> > else
> > > is
> > > > at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
> > > My statements are based on the developers in our company on how thier
> > > productivity has gone up since making the switch.  So I guess it isn't
> > valid
> > > for me to assume that other developers, outside our shop, wouldn't see
the
> > > same results.  By the way we probably have the largest VO shop in
North
> > > America.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Rob Panosh
> > >
> > > "Will Chapman" <qbuster@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3fcf4005$0$25667$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > > >
> > > > >  The
> > > > > only point I want to make is TODAY I can write better and more
> > powerful
> > > > > applications using VB.NET, or somebody using C#.NET, over VO 2.6
and
> > in
> > > > half
> > > > > the time.
> > > >
> > > > Surely that depends what your VO v VB.net efficiency ratio is like
with
> > > how
> > > > good someone else is at VO? All you are really able to say is that
you
> > are
> > > > more
> > > > capable at VB.net than VO, you can't possibily judge how good anyone
> > else
> > > is
> > > > at writing VO code in comparison to you with VB.net or VO.
> > > >
> > > > Fatuous arguments make little impression on anyone...well, not
positive
> > > > impressions.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers...
> > > >
> > > > Will Chapman
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


0
NSG
12/10/2003 7:46:07 AM
Reply:

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US-AL-Huntsville: SW Engineer, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Stdio.NET, C#; P (45288546624) ============================================================================================== Position: SW Engineer Reference: SMC01201 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5 + years development of MS Windows applications using Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Proficient in Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Access). UML modeling experience using Rational Rose and CMM processes. Background in the development of aircraft mission planning for either the Air Force or Army and/or operation flight program (OFP) software. Please send your current resume in confidence to <staffing@eurosoft-inc.com> ..45288546624. ...

US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288557613)
US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288557613) ============================================================================================= Position: Sr. SW Eng. Reference: SMC01200 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5+ years in development of Microsoft Windows applications using Microsoft tools and technologies such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Must be proficient in the use of Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Access). UML Modeling (using Rational Rose) and CMM Level 3 activities. Development of aircraft mission planning and/or operation flight program (OFP) software. Please send your current resume in confidence to <staffing@eurosoft-inc.com> ..45288557613. ...

US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288857609)
US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288857609) ============================================================================================= Position: Sr. SW Eng. Reference: SMC01200 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5+ years in development of Microsoft Windows applications using Microsoft tools and technologies such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Must be proficient in the use of Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Access). UML Modeling (using Rational Rose) and CMM Level 3 activities. Development of aircraft mission planning and/or operation flight program (OFP) software. Please send your current resume in confidence to <staffing@eurosoft-inc.com> ..45288857609. ...

US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288557613)
US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288557613) ============================================================================================= Position: Sr. SW Eng. Reference: SMC01200 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5+ years in development of Microsoft Windows applications using Microsoft tools and technologies such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Must be proficient in the use of Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint...

US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288546334)
US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288546334) ============================================================================================= Position: Sr. SW Eng. Reference: SMC01200 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5+ years in development of Microsoft Windows applications using Microsoft tools and technologies such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Must be proficient in the use of Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Access). UML Modeling (using Rational Rose) and CMM Level 3 activities. Development of aircraft mission planning and/or operation flight program (OFP) software. Please send your current resume in confidence to <staffing@eurosoft-inc.com> ..45288546334. ...

US-AL-Huntsville: SW Engineer, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Stdio.NET, C#; P (45288832412)
US-AL-Huntsville: SW Engineer, Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Stdio.NET, C#; P (45288832412) ============================================================================================== Position: SW Engineer Reference: SMC01201 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5 + years development of MS Windows applications using Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Proficient in Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Access). UML modeling experience using Rational Rose and CMM processes. Background in the development of aircraft mission planning for either the Air Force or Army and/or operation flight program (OFP) software. Please send your current resume in confidence to <staffing@eurosoft-inc.com> ..45288832412. ...

US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288832412)
US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45288832412) ============================================================================================= Position: Sr. SW Eng. Reference: SMC01200 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5+ years in development of Microsoft Windows applications using Microsoft tools and technologies such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Must be proficient in the use of Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Access). UML Modeling (using Rational Rose) and CMM Level 3 activities. Development of aircraft mission planning and/or operation flight program (OFP) software. Please send your current resume in confidence to <staffing@eurosoft-inc.com> ..45288832412. ...

US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45289157610)
US-AL-Huntsville: Sr. SW Eng., Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET, C#; (45289157610) ============================================================================================= Position: Sr. SW Eng. Reference: SMC01200 Location: Huntsville AL Duration: Perm Skills: 5+ years in development of Microsoft Windows applications using Microsoft tools and technologies such as Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual Studio.NET and C#. Must be proficient in the use of Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel...

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Resources last updated: 2/21/2016 12:21:56 PM