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XSharp Beta 8

We are proud to announce that we have released XSharp Beta 8 to our FOX subscribers,

This version has many new features. Some higlights:

- The compiler is now able to compile most VO & Vulcan programs without changes. You have to have the Vulcan Runtime (we call that Bring Your Own Runtime). 
Of course the compiler can compile new code that does not rely on the VO & Vulcan runtime functions and classes without problems too. 
This build introduces some new features in that area too, such as Collection Initializers and Object Initializers.

- We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been released this week at the Connect event from Microsoft. We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their product ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integration.

TO celebrate this new release of X# and the release of Visual Studio 2017 we are now offering a 30% discount on FOX subscriptions.

Check out our website for more information and a link to the order page with the special discount

A new "public" version of X# is expected around Christmas time.


Robert van der Hulst
The XSharp Project
http://www.xsharp.info

0
Robert
11/20/2016 3:23:34 PM
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Replying on message of Sun, 20 Nov 2016 07:23:34 -0800 (PST) from
Robert van der Hulst:


 Hello Robert,

>- We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been released this week at the Connect event from Microsoft. 
>We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their product ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
>This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integration.

Are you really saying that X# actually works in VS 2017?

I remember that for Vulcan, about 90% of the development time was
required to keep up with the version of VS. Usually not earlier than 1
year after a new VS release, there was a Vulcan version which worked
in it. Has the fact that in X# we do not have to wait something to do
that X# is based on Roslyn?

>
>TO celebrate this new release of X# and the release of Visual Studio 2017 we are now offering a 30% discount on FOX subscriptions.

I can recommend the Fox subscription!

About VS: 

I've seen the release video of VS 2017 RC on
https://connectevent.microsoft.com/intro-visual-studio-2017/. They
show in a comparison with VS 2015 (3) that startup is twice as fast.
So it's only 15 times slower than VO now instead of 30 times!

I had a Teamviewer meeting with one of the Visual Studio team managers
and showed him why I hate VS comparing it to VO (which he didn't
know). He admitted that VO was "lightning fast" so who knows I
contributed a tiny bit to them realizing how dreadfully slow VS was,
and still is of course.

I've given up the idea that VS can be set up in a usuable way after so
many times trying to learn the stupid program that I want this and
that window floating and not covering my compiler results and another
window to open there and not thare, but I think it is programmed such
that settings last max 24 hours. So when working in VS I keep moving
and closing Windows. Another example. After Update 2, I think, I could
directly search (via Bing) on an error, saving me to strip error
information left and right of the error on Textpad before I can search
it via StartPage. But somewhere after Update 3 that stopped working of
course. Admitted, it has worked a few months instead of 24 hours.

So to summarize: I 'm much more impressed by X# than I am by VS, but
if VS 2017 is starting faster then at least something is improved in
VS 2017.

Dick

PS: X# NG doesn't work at the moment. Wolfgang already wrote it I
think.
0
D
11/21/2016 11:48:41 AM
Dick,
>=20
> >- We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been released t=
his week at the Connect event from Microsoft.=20
> >We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their product =
ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
> >This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integration.
>=20
> Are you really saying that X# actually works in VS 2017?

Yes, that is what I am saying. In fact: in April at the conference in Colog=
ne we already showed X# working in an early version of what was then called=
 Visual Studio 15.

We have had to make some changes since then, mainly because Microsoft has c=
hanged Visual Studio 2017 so it allows multiple side by side installations.=
 But most of the changes were in the installer and not in our product itsel=
f.

> I remember that for Vulcan, about 90% of the development time was
> required to keep up with the version of VS. Usually not earlier than 1
> year after a new VS release, there was a Vulcan version which worked
> in it. Has the fact that in X# we do not have to wait something to do
> that X# is based on Roslyn?

Yes I remember that too. And I thought that was unacceptible for a serious =
product. But the fact that X# works with VS 2017 has nothing to do with X# =
being based on Roslyn. It has to with the fact that we created our Visual S=
tudio integration the proper way.
=20

> About VS:=20
>=20
> I've seen the release video of VS 2017 RC on
> https://connectevent.microsoft.com/intro-visual-studio-2017/. They
> show in a comparison with VS 2015 (3) that startup is twice as fast.
> So it's only 15 times slower than VO now instead of 30 times!

What can I say: I am proud of the things we achieved with Visual Objects. I=
 did a lot of work to make VO a very usable product. VO 2.5 was good, but i=
t became a productuve tool when we got rid of the dreaded 5333 (Access viol=
ation) errors and when we changed the IDE and repository so we could open m=
ore than one project at the same time.
With X# we strive to get the same kind of quality tools.

Finally: we are aware of the newsgroup problems. We are working on it.


Robert
0
Robert
11/21/2016 12:44:18 PM
Hi Dick,

> So to summarize: I 'm much more impressed by X# than I am by VS, but
> if VS 2017 is starting faster then at least something is improved in
> VS 2017.

if you like the VO way and don't like Visual Studio, I can only
recommend XIDE. It starts even faster than VO!

Wolfgang

-- 

0
Wolfgang
11/21/2016 1:20:27 PM
Hi Robert,

I was able to rebuild my only Vulcan.NET GUI application with X# beta 8
with almost no changes (had to change a few things that in fact were
errors), and I have put this app now in production to see if all works
as it should.

Of course, since this WinForms application is built in VO style (using
all the VO functions I use) it is making use of the Vulcan runtime.

Wolfgang


Robert van der Hulst wrote:

> We are proud to announce that we have released XSharp Beta 8 to our
> FOX subscribers,
> 
> This version has many new features. Some higlights:
> 
> - The compiler is now able to compile most VO & Vulcan programs
> without changes. You have to have the Vulcan Runtime (we call that
> Bring Your Own Runtime).  Of course the compiler can compile new code
> that does not rely on the VO & Vulcan runtime functions and classes
> without problems too.  This build introduces some new features in
> that area too, such as Collection Initializers and Object
> Initializers.
> 
> - We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been
> released this week at the Connect event from Microsoft. We are proud
> to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their product ready for
> this new version of Visual Studio.  This build also adds some new
> features in the Visual Studio integration.
> 
> TO celebrate this new release of X# and the release of Visual Studio
> 2017 we are now offering a 30% discount on FOX subscriptions.
> 
> Check out our website for more information and a link to the order
> page with the special discount
> 
> A new "public" version of X# is expected around Christmas time.
> 
> 
> Robert van der Hulst
> The XSharp Project
> http://www.xsharp.info



-- 

0
Wolfgang
11/21/2016 1:23:21 PM
Replying on message of Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:20:27 +0100 from Wolfgang
Riedmann:


 Hello Wolfgang,

>if you like the VO way and don't like Visual Studio, I can only
>recommend XIDE. It starts even faster than VO!
>
I know. But it's the old problem - no WPF preview and I want my
screeens to paint like I did in VO. Due to the structure of WPF, this
is already difficult enough in VS (What you see is what you get could
better be called What you see is usually not exactly what you expect)
but that makes it difficult to go to Vide.

I recently started with Xide but I have to get back to documentation
we wrote in the past to find out how we can add existing code to a
project. I tried to drag & drop some .prg's but that didn't work while
it did work in VS/X#. And then I got the X# program working in VS.
Finally I have to admit, there are a few nice features as well in VS,
like Peek Definition and lately VS showing from where a certain method
is called.

I still have to make up my mind but we also have Universal Apps in VS
which is the only environment where you can create these (see
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn975273.aspx) I am afraid I
have little choice to keep using VS despite my hate against it.....


Dick
0
D
11/21/2016 1:53:19 PM
Replying on message of Mon, 21 Nov 2016 04:44:18 -0800 (PST) from
Robert van der Hulst:


 Hello Robert,

>> Are you really saying that X# actually works in VS 2017?
>
>Yes, that is what I am saying. 


Absolutely amazing.

I had a lot of confidence in the X# project from the start. The
progress has exceeded my expectations. I hope I can run my other
Vulcan programs too - can hardly wait to try but must finish a few
other things first.

Dick
0
D
11/21/2016 1:57:48 PM
Hi Robert,

How about VS Code.  Can I use that with X#?

--

Rene

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 8:44:19 PM UTC+8, Robert van der Hulst wrot=
e:
> Dick,
> >=20
> > >- We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been released=
 this week at the Connect event from Microsoft.=20
> > >We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their produc=
t ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
> > >This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integratio=
n.
> >=20
> > Are you really saying that X# actually works in VS 2017?
>=20
> Yes, that is what I am saying. In fact: in April at the conference in Col=
ogne we already showed X# working in an early version of what was then call=
ed Visual Studio 15.
>=20
> We have had to make some changes since then, mainly because Microsoft has=
 changed Visual Studio 2017 so it allows multiple side by side installation=
s. But most of the changes were in the installer and not in our product its=
elf.
>=20
> > I remember that for Vulcan, about 90% of the development time was
> > required to keep up with the version of VS. Usually not earlier than 1
> > year after a new VS release, there was a Vulcan version which worked
> > in it. Has the fact that in X# we do not have to wait something to do
> > that X# is based on Roslyn?
>=20
> Yes I remember that too. And I thought that was unacceptible for a seriou=
s product. But the fact that X# works with VS 2017 has nothing to do with X=
# being based on Roslyn. It has to with the fact that we created our Visual=
 Studio integration the proper way.
> =20
>=20
> > About VS:=20
> >=20
> > I've seen the release video of VS 2017 RC on
> > https://connectevent.microsoft.com/intro-visual-studio-2017/. They
> > show in a comparison with VS 2015 (3) that startup is twice as fast.
> > So it's only 15 times slower than VO now instead of 30 times!
>=20
> What can I say: I am proud of the things we achieved with Visual Objects.=
 I did a lot of work to make VO a very usable product. VO 2.5 was good, but=
 it became a productuve tool when we got rid of the dreaded 5333 (Access vi=
olation) errors and when we changed the IDE and repository so we could open=
 more than one project at the same time.
> With X# we strive to get the same kind of quality tools.
>=20
> Finally: we are aware of the newsgroup problems. We are working on it.
>=20
>=20
> Robert

0
Rene
11/29/2016 2:22:00 AM
Rene,

VS Code is 'just another editor'. It will definitely work.
However it you expect Intellisense etc then you must wait for a while.
Unfortunately MS has chosen a completely different model for this inside VS=
 Code.
Our focus for now is on the Visual Studio family.

Robert


> Hi Robert,
>=20
> How about VS Code.  Can I use that with X#?
>=20
> --
>=20
> Rene
>=20
> On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 8:44:19 PM UTC+8, Robert van der Hulst wr=
ote:
> > Dick,
> > >=20
> > > >- We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been releas=
ed this week at the Connect event from Microsoft.=20
> > > >We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their prod=
uct ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
> > > >This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integrat=
ion.
> > >=20
> > > Are you really saying that X# actually works in VS 2017?
> >=20
> > Yes, that is what I am saying. In fact: in April at the conference in C=
ologne we already showed X# working in an early version of what was then ca=
lled Visual Studio 15.
> >=20
> > We have had to make some changes since then, mainly because Microsoft h=
as changed Visual Studio 2017 so it allows multiple side by side installati=
ons. But most of the changes were in the installer and not in our product i=
tself.
> >=20
> > > I remember that for Vulcan, about 90% of the development time was
> > > required to keep up with the version of VS. Usually not earlier than =
1
> > > year after a new VS release, there was a Vulcan version which worked
> > > in it. Has the fact that in X# we do not have to wait something to do
> > > that X# is based on Roslyn?
> >=20
> > Yes I remember that too. And I thought that was unacceptible for a seri=
ous product. But the fact that X# works with VS 2017 has nothing to do with=
 X# being based on Roslyn. It has to with the fact that we created our Visu=
al Studio integration the proper way.
> > =20
> >=20
> > > About VS:=20
> > >=20
> > > I've seen the release video of VS 2017 RC on
> > > https://connectevent.microsoft.com/intro-visual-studio-2017/. They
> > > show in a comparison with VS 2015 (3) that startup is twice as fast.
> > > So it's only 15 times slower than VO now instead of 30 times!
> >=20
> > What can I say: I am proud of the things we achieved with Visual Object=
s. I did a lot of work to make VO a very usable product. VO 2.5 was good, b=
ut it became a productuve tool when we got rid of the dreaded 5333 (Access =
violation) errors and when we changed the IDE and repository so we could op=
en more than one project at the same time.
> > With X# we strive to get the same kind of quality tools.
> >=20
> > Finally: we are aware of the newsgroup problems. We are working on it.
> >=20
> >=20
> > Robert

0
Robert
11/29/2016 7:43:15 AM
Replying on message of Mon, 28 Nov 2016 23:43:15 -0800 (PST) from
Robert van der Hulst:


 Hello Robert,

>However it you expect Intellisense etc then you must wait for a while.
>Unfortunately MS has chosen a completely different model for this inside VS Code.


Why doesn't that surprise me.....

It would good if Microsoft spends more time in getting their products
working decently instead of changing things which cause more trouble
every time. I spend half my days running Microsoft programs and
updates ending with something like "The update failed. Error code
b87435jdsf4t. Try again later."

But anyhow, keep up the good work. If you have Intellisense running by
this year or early next year with the X# compiler doing what it can do
now, it's a miracle that you all achieved this in less than 1,5 year.
Grafx was there (and less in more than one point) in mayby 6 years. 

After this, can't you take over the Visual Studio and C# compiler
department from Microsoft? Dismiss everyone with exception of 10
people and I am going to like VS in a year I expect <g>.

Dick
0
D
12/1/2016 10:36:06 AM
Hi Robert,

thanks for info.  I like the VS code: it is very light, and it is good to b=
e supported in the future.

Regards,

Rene

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 3:43:22 PM UTC+8, Robert van der Hulst wro=
te:
> Rene,
>=20
> VS Code is 'just another editor'. It will definitely work.
> However it you expect Intellisense etc then you must wait for a while.
> Unfortunately MS has chosen a completely different model for this inside =
VS Code.
> Our focus for now is on the Visual Studio family.
>=20
> Robert
>=20
>=20
> > Hi Robert,
> >=20
> > How about VS Code.  Can I use that with X#?
> >=20
> > --
> >=20
> > Rene
> >=20
> > On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 8:44:19 PM UTC+8, Robert van der Hulst =
wrote:
> > > Dick,
> > > >=20
> > > > >- We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been rele=
ased this week at the Connect event from Microsoft.=20
> > > > >We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their pr=
oduct ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
> > > > >This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integr=
ation.
> > > >=20
> > > > Are you really saying that X# actually works in VS 2017?
> > >=20
> > > Yes, that is what I am saying. In fact: in April at the conference in=
 Cologne we already showed X# working in an early version of what was then =
called Visual Studio 15.
> > >=20
> > > We have had to make some changes since then, mainly because Microsoft=
 has changed Visual Studio 2017 so it allows multiple side by side installa=
tions. But most of the changes were in the installer and not in our product=
 itself.
> > >=20
> > > > I remember that for Vulcan, about 90% of the development time was
> > > > required to keep up with the version of VS. Usually not earlier tha=
n 1
> > > > year after a new VS release, there was a Vulcan version which worke=
d
> > > > in it. Has the fact that in X# we do not have to wait something to =
do
> > > > that X# is based on Roslyn?
> > >=20
> > > Yes I remember that too. And I thought that was unacceptible for a se=
rious product. But the fact that X# works with VS 2017 has nothing to do wi=
th X# being based on Roslyn. It has to with the fact that we created our Vi=
sual Studio integration the proper way.
> > > =20
> > >=20
> > > > About VS:=20
> > > >=20
> > > > I've seen the release video of VS 2017 RC on
> > > > https://connectevent.microsoft.com/intro-visual-studio-2017/. They
> > > > show in a comparison with VS 2015 (3) that startup is twice as fast=
..
> > > > So it's only 15 times slower than VO now instead of 30 times!
> > >=20
> > > What can I say: I am proud of the things we achieved with Visual Obje=
cts. I did a lot of work to make VO a very usable product. VO 2.5 was good,=
 but it became a productuve tool when we got rid of the dreaded 5333 (Acces=
s violation) errors and when we changed the IDE and repository so we could =
open more than one project at the same time.
> > > With X# we strive to get the same kind of quality tools.
> > >=20
> > > Finally: we are aware of the newsgroup problems. We are working on it=
..
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Robert

0
Rene
12/1/2016 1:56:40 PM
This does look interesting

I will admit I saw FOX and passed on it at first as many ex Clipper 
programmers do!

Anyway had a look at lots of mentions of VO and friends.

We are looking for a way off VO compiler and the dot net framework is of 
interest (partly so I can try MONO as well).

A few people seem wary of Vulcan, so an alternate route look good to me.

Reading about it compiling BBRowser is definately of interest!

I will keep nosing as it is interesting

Martin



On 20/11/2016 15:23, Robert van der Hulst wrote:
> We are proud to announce that we have released XSharp Beta 8 to our FOX subscribers,
>
> This version has many new features. Some higlights:
>
> - The compiler is now able to compile most VO & Vulcan programs without changes. You have to have the Vulcan Runtime (we call that Bring Your Own Runtime).
> Of course the compiler can compile new code that does not rely on the VO & Vulcan runtime functions and classes without problems too.
> This build introduces some new features in that area too, such as Collection Initializers and Object Initializers.
>
> - We have added support for Visual Studio 2017 which has been released this week at the Connect event from Microsoft. We are proud to be one of the "Sim Ship Partners" who had their product ready for this new version of Visual Studio.
> This build also adds some new features in the Visual Studio integration.
>
> TO celebrate this new release of X# and the release of Visual Studio 2017 we are now offering a 30% discount on FOX subscriptions.
>
> Check out our website for more information and a link to the order page with the special discount
>
> A new "public" version of X# is expected around Christmas time.
>
>
> Robert van der Hulst
> The XSharp Project
> http://www.xsharp.info
>

0
Martin
12/1/2016 4:37:36 PM
Reply: