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What does it take to change an Access 2010 backend database to MySql or SQL Server?

Hi,

I am concerned about corruption and the size limit if I move my Access
2010 application to something like Amazon Web Services (instead of
rewriting it in .NET, Alpha Five, Sharepoint).

How much effort would it take to use another backend database.  To be
honest, I don't even know how to install something like MySQL on my PC
(or maybe it must be on a web server).

How do I link to a different back-end?  My application is pretty huge,
and reports are also important, FWIW.

Just checking.

Thanks!

-paulw
0
2/15/2013 4:44:53 AM
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The big difference comes from how you optimise the behavior and 
performance. For example you may find that you end up using stored 
procedures to minimise on bandwidth use. Passthrough queries with 
really tight selection criteria to get the smallest possible result 
set returned. Statelessness. Local caching. Users, passwords, roles, 
and of course logins. Server side validation. Security. Encryption. 
Backups and failover.

In short there is certainly a bit to consider. These are all 
achievable steps. There are many but none are impossible. Be prepared 
to put some hours in as it can be tedious. The results however can be 
utterly amazing for the end users and the difference it makes to 
their work remarkable.

-- 
Cheers

The Frog
0
2/15/2013 1:16:33 PM
On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 00:16:33 +1100, The Frog
<Mr.frog.to.you@googlemail.com> wrote:

>The big difference comes from how you optimise the behavior and 
>performance. For example you may find that you end up using stored 
>procedures to minimise on bandwidth use. Passthrough queries with 
>really tight selection criteria to get the smallest possible result 
>set returned. Statelessness. Local caching. Users, passwords, roles, 
>and of course logins. Server side validation. Security. Encryption. 
>Backups and failover.
>
>In short there is certainly a bit to consider. These are all 
>achievable steps. There are many but none are impossible. Be prepared 
>to put some hours in as it can be tedious. The results however can be 
>utterly amazing for the end users and the difference it makes to 
>their work remarkable.

Sounds like a rewrite to me and possibly over my head!  Thanks!

-pw
0
2/15/2013 8:48:40 PM
On Friday, February 15, 2013 3:48:40 PM UTC-5, PW wrote:
> Sounds like a rewrite to me and possibly over my head! Thanks! -pw

Drat.  I was hoping you would tackle that because I've always wanted to.  N=
ow I don't have the need or the time.  So much for coding vicariously. :)

As a test, though, if your project is fairly small, I would be curious to s=
ee the result if you combined your fe/be and then used the SQL Server migra=
tion tool.  It would not be optimized but you may avoid the size limit prob=
lem.  Is MS SQL Server Express still free?

Stan
0
2/15/2013 9:13:07 PM
Per PW:
>
>Sounds like a rewrite to me and possibly over my head!  Thanks!

Not quite a rewrite - but definitely a lot of work.

On the systems where I've had to fulfill a mandate of moving all the
tables to SQL Server, but was not allowed to do any further coding;
performance went down the tubes.    OTOH, that was on corporate servers
with virtual PCs where one has no control over how much CPU power is
available.   Might be different with one's own SQL Server.

To do it right - i.e. write stored procedures to retrieve data - I would
add a third to any estimate, and that's been about right in the few
systems I've done that way.

I don't see corruption as an issue with .MDBs as long as they are backed
up every night.     Even though point-in-time restores are theoretically
possible under SQL Server, my experience has been that IT almost never
supports them with any meaningful granularity and it's faster/easier to
get a .MDB back just with a drag/drop copy.
-- 
Pete Cresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/15/2013 9:15:49 PM
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:15:49 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid>
wrote:

>Per PW:
>>
>>Sounds like a rewrite to me and possibly over my head!  Thanks!
>
>Not quite a rewrite - but definitely a lot of work.
>
>On the systems where I've had to fulfill a mandate of moving all the
>tables to SQL Server, but was not allowed to do any further coding;
>performance went down the tubes.    OTOH, that was on corporate servers
>with virtual PCs where one has no control over how much CPU power is
>available.   Might be different with one's own SQL Server.
>
>To do it right - i.e. write stored procedures to retrieve data - I would
>add a third to any estimate, and that's been about right in the few
>systems I've done that way.
>
>I don't see corruption as an issue with .MDBs as long as they are backed
>up every night.     Even though point-in-time restores are theoretically
>possible under SQL Server, my experience has been that IT almost never
>supports them with any meaningful granularity and it's faster/easier to
>get a .MDB back just with a drag/drop copy.

Thanks.  I wonder if it is possible to have the Access back-end hosted
on a server somewhere (like Amazon Web Services, I suppose) and
connect to it via the front-end that is on peoples PCs.  Probably
slow, if possible.

-paulw
0
2/18/2013 5:30:55 PM
Per PW:
>Thanks.  I wonder if it is possible to have the Access back-end hosted
>on a server somewhere (like Amazon Web Services, I suppose) and
>connect to it via the front-end that is on peoples PCs.  Probably
>slow, if possible.

I don't have any direct experience, but everything I've seen/heard/read
tells me that once you move to WAN access, you're in SQL Server
territory and that .MDBs are not going to work well enough.

Maybe somebody with actual experience can chime in.
-- 
Pete Cresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/18/2013 6:46:29 PM
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:46:29 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid>
wrote:

>Per PW:
>>Thanks.  I wonder if it is possible to have the Access back-end hosted
>>on a server somewhere (like Amazon Web Services, I suppose) and
>>connect to it via the front-end that is on peoples PCs.  Probably
>>slow, if possible.
>
>I don't have any direct experience, but everything I've seen/heard/read
>tells me that once you move to WAN access, you're in SQL Server
>territory and that .MDBs are not going to work well enough.
>
>Maybe somebody with actual experience can chime in.

Maybe what Albert is talking about with Office 365 is what I am
looking for!  Except hosting our software with Amazon Web Services
(instead of having it rewrittend from scratch in .NET or Sharepoint or
Alpha Five,.... we don't have the market for that)  would enable
people with tablets and phones to access it (but data entry would be a
pain on those devices).

Thanks!!
0
2/18/2013 10:52:04 PM
It might be worth investigating an xml rpc service for sending and 
receiving data online. It's kind of like a stored procedure but 
online. You could use anything as a client with a web service. Even 
access. Java. Net. Etc...

You would put a database on a server not directly on the net. 
Probably a PHP server directly on the net with a back end connection 
to the DB server. Requests and replies come and go through the xml 
rpc service.

It's just another way you might consider.

-- 
Cheers

The Frog
0
2/19/2013 11:09:57 AM
Per (PeteCresswell):
>but everything I've seen/heard/read
>tells me that once you move to WAN access, you're in SQL Server
>territory and that .MDBs are not going to work well enough.

I should qualify that with one workaround that I've had success with:
Remote Access.

I don't know the technical terminology, but you can set up virtual PCs
on a remote access server onsite and then people can "Remote" into their
own virtual PC - which can be running your MS Access app and .MDB back
end locally.   Given a half-decent connection, response is pretty much
what you would experience onsite.

Naturally, if people already have PCs on the site, the need for the
server goes away....
-- 
Pete Cresswell
0
PeteCresswell
2/19/2013 9:50:20 PM
Just read that WSDL 2.0 is now the recommended style for web 
services. Forget the xml rpc stuff and head for WSDL if you want to 
go that way. Pretty easy to do with a PHP server. Then your 
application consumes the web service.

-- 
Cheers

The Frog
0
2/20/2013 2:17:14 AM
On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:09:57 +1100, The Frog
<Mr.frog.to.you@googlemail.com> wrote:

>It might be worth investigating an xml rpc service for sending and 
>receiving data online. It's kind of like a stored procedure but 
>online. You could use anything as a client with a web service. Even 
>access. Java. Net. Etc...
>
>You would put a database on a server not directly on the net. 
>Probably a PHP server directly on the net with a back end connection 
>to the DB server. Requests and replies come and go through the xml 
>rpc service.
>
>It's just another way you might consider.


Okay - I will Google that.  Thanks!
0
2/23/2013 12:41:12 AM
On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:17:14 +1100, The Frog
<Mr.frog.to.you@googlemail.com> wrote:

>Just read that WSDL 2.0 is now the recommended style for web 
>services. Forget the xml rpc stuff and head for WSDL if you want to 
>go that way. Pretty easy to do with a PHP server. Then your 
>application consumes the web service.

Thanks!  Here is a blonde moment:  What does the term "consume the web
service" mean??

-paulw
0
2/23/2013 12:43:20 AM
'consume the web service' means you use the url of the web service to 
send and receive data. WSDL is a way that you can define / describe 
what the web service can do so that applications can read the WSDL 
file and know how to interact with it. You can send and receive with 
POST and GET http requests and get back XML or JSON (if you prefer).

Because the web service is how applications interact with the back 
end it really doesn't matter what or where the application is. Pc, 
tablet, other web service, phone, web page, etc... It all works the 
same way as far as the back end goes.

Does that make sense? There are many examples available on the web, 
and I would recommend having a look at w3 schools explanations and 
tutorials - simple and logical. It's a very standardized way of 
moving data around the web, and it works with most anything you can 
think of.

-- 
Cheers

The Frog
0
2/23/2013 11:55:59 PM
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:55:59 +1100, The Frog
<Mr.frog.to.you@googlemail.com> wrote:

>'consume the web service' means you use the url of the web service to 
>send and receive data. WSDL is a way that you can define / describe 
>what the web service can do so that applications can read the WSDL 
>file and know how to interact with it. You can send and receive with 
>POST and GET http requests and get back XML or JSON (if you prefer).
>
>Because the web service is how applications interact with the back 
>end it really doesn't matter what or where the application is. Pc, 
>tablet, other web service, phone, web page, etc... It all works the 
>same way as far as the back end goes.
>
>Does that make sense? There are many examples available on the web, 
>and I would recommend having a look at w3 schools explanations and 
>tutorials - simple and logical. It's a very standardized way of 
>moving data around the web, and it works with most anything you can 
>think of.

Thank you so much, and yes it makes sense!

-paul
0
2/27/2013 5:32:24 PM
Reply:

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