f



a database, is a database, is a err database

How many times can we see the same request from someone who wants to access
data from a 'pick' database through what has come to be 'standard' practices 
(odbc, oledb)
and still get the same old sloppy ' buy this proprietary utility (and above
all, my services)'  answer. I think most of these pick flavors should have
some sort of layer (by now!) to handle this; If someone needs to do this,
the service is really 'education' i.e to show them how. Lets cut the shit
now and stop with this tired and silly BS and sad marketing schlock.

Regards,

-Jim



0
Jim
2/15/2005 8:51:38 AM
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Jim wrote:

> How many times can we see the same request from someone who wants to
> access data from a 'pick' database through what has come to be
> 'standard' practices (odbc, oledb)
> and still get the same old sloppy ' buy this proprietary utility (and
> above all, my services)'  answer. I think most of these pick flavors
> should have some sort of layer (by now!) to handle this; If someone
> needs to do this, the service is really 'education' i.e to show them
> how. Lets cut the shit now and stop with this tired and silly BS and
> sad marketing schlock.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Jim

Jim who?  I wonder?

What is this? An attack on capitalism?  Providing services for those
who perhaps lack the time, skill, or knowledge to perform such tasks is
hardly a crime.

Maybe "standard" odbc and oledb isn't good enough or practical for all
situations.

Education?  Well, put up or shut up.  I don't see your long, detailed
posts explaining how to do these things, nor any offers for one on one
personal assistance.  Is that because it would take time?  And for
many, time actually is money?

-- 
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
2/15/2005 2:21:06 PM
dittos to what Kevin said.

This sounds like a troll but I'll take a bite.

I think Jim's observation is only half correct.  He notices the same
questions coming up all the time but then blames the people who offer
for-fee solutions.  Did it occur to him that the questions are often
about decade old technology where there ARE free solutions for people
who would only do some reading to learn about them?  If someone
doesn't want to do their own research, I'll be happy to sell them a
modern tool that will last at least until the next generation - which
in our market is about a year if we're lucky.  I'll also sell
education - but someone has to pay my bills or I won't be able to
afford the network connection to provide free advice, so as always:
suggestions and vague responses are free - real answers will cost ya.
Pay me or spend your own time trying to figure out the world of
technology, but you're going to pay someone.  Free is not.

And since you mentioned it, the DBMS providers to have ODBC and OLEDB
connectivity into their environments - do a little reading.  The
problem is that they are often slow and subject to break.  Even people
who sell tools for these server options will tell you they are
unsuitable for updates, only for inquiry.

(Per my ongoing "lead, follow, or get out of the way" mantra" I have
sent a note to "certain people" to review these issues and consider
the end-user perspective of how usable the various connectivity
options actually are.)

So in the world as it is, as long as there are people who don't
educate themselves, and as long as there are products that do have
questionable and/or complex connectivity/technology, then there will
always be a place for people to sell their time for education and/or
development to fill the gaps.

T
0
Tony
2/16/2005 12:49:03 AM
Bravo, Tony :>
0
Concerned
2/16/2005 4:51:34 PM
 I often lurk here being a newbie with 7 years experience.  
I feel the same way that Tony does.  I know that there are things
that I could never figure out with my inexperience.  

I figure that all of us could build a car for instance.  Some people
can build that car quicker and better than I.  If I need that car
quickly why re-invent the wheel and take 10 times as long and have a
crappy time of it.  I have no problem with people
wanting to sell their services here.  I think we should consider
ourselves very lucky that the likes of Tony, Mark, and many of the
others that due impart their knowledge here free of charge! (sorry for
anyone I left off the list)   I know that they have helped me out
indirectly here by posting some good tips.  

Thanks Tony and all the others for the time and information that you
do post here.  I always enjoy your posts.

Oz in PA
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:49:03 -0800, Tony Gravagno
<g6q3x9lu53001@sneakemail.com.invalid> wrote:

>dittos to what Kevin said.
>
>This sounds like a troll but I'll take a bite.
>
>I think Jim's observation is only half correct.  He notices the same
>questions coming up all the time but then blames the people who offer
>for-fee solutions.  Did it occur to him that the questions are often
>about decade old technology where there ARE free solutions for people
>who would only do some reading to learn about them?  If someone
>doesn't want to do their own research, I'll be happy to sell them a
>modern tool that will last at least until the next generation - which
>in our market is about a year if we're lucky.  I'll also sell
>education - but someone has to pay my bills or I won't be able to
>afford the network connection to provide free advice, so as always:
>suggestions and vague responses are free - real answers will cost ya.
>Pay me or spend your own time trying to figure out the world of
>technology, but you're going to pay someone.  Free is not.
>
>And since you mentioned it, the DBMS providers to have ODBC and OLEDB
>connectivity into their environments - do a little reading.  The
>problem is that they are often slow and subject to break.  Even people
>who sell tools for these server options will tell you they are
>unsuitable for updates, only for inquiry.
>
>(Per my ongoing "lead, follow, or get out of the way" mantra" I have
>sent a note to "certain people" to review these issues and consider
>the end-user perspective of how usable the various connectivity
>options actually are.)
>
>So in the world as it is, as long as there are people who don't
>educate themselves, and as long as there are products that do have
>questionable and/or complex connectivity/technology, then there will
>always be a place for people to sell their time for education and/or
>development to fill the gaps.
>
>T

0
Oz
2/16/2005 5:12:20 PM
Let me THIRD that, Tony!!!!!!!!!!!! :^)

MW

Oz wrote:
> I often lurk here being a newbie with 7 years experience.
> I feel the same way that Tony does.  I know that there are things
> that I could never figure out with my inexperience.
>
> I figure that all of us could build a car for instance.  Some people
> can build that car quicker and better than I.  If I need that car
> quickly why re-invent the wheel and take 10 times as long and have a
> crappy time of it.  I have no problem with people
> wanting to sell their services here.  I think we should consider
> ourselves very lucky that the likes of Tony, Mark, and many of the
> others that due impart their knowledge here free of charge! (sorry
for
> anyone I left off the list)   I know that they have helped me out
> indirectly here by posting some good tips.
>
> Thanks Tony and all the others for the time and information that you
> do post here.  I always enjoy your posts.
>
> Oz in PA
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:49:03 -0800, Tony Gravagno
> <g6q3x9lu53001@sneakemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >dittos to what Kevin said.
> >
> >This sounds like a troll but I'll take a bite.
> >
> >I think Jim's observation is only half correct.  He notices the same
> >questions coming up all the time but then blames the people who
offer
> >for-fee solutions.  Did it occur to him that the questions are often
> >about decade old technology where there ARE free solutions for
people
> >who would only do some reading to learn about them?  If someone
> >doesn't want to do their own research, I'll be happy to sell them a
> >modern tool that will last at least until the next generation -
which
> >in our market is about a year if we're lucky.  I'll also sell
> >education - but someone has to pay my bills or I won't be able to
> >afford the network connection to provide free advice, so as always:
> >suggestions and vague responses are free - real answers will cost
ya.
> >Pay me or spend your own time trying to figure out the world of
> >technology, but you're going to pay someone.  Free is not.
> >
> >And since you mentioned it, the DBMS providers to have ODBC and
OLEDB
> >connectivity into their environments - do a little reading.  The
> >problem is that they are often slow and subject to break.  Even
people
> >who sell tools for these server options will tell you they are
> >unsuitable for updates, only for inquiry.
> >
> >(Per my ongoing "lead, follow, or get out of the way" mantra" I have
> >sent a note to "certain people" to review these issues and consider
> >the end-user perspective of how usable the various connectivity
> >options actually are.)
> >
> >So in the world as it is, as long as there are people who don't
> >educate themselves, and as long as there are products that do have
> >questionable and/or complex connectivity/technology, then there will
> >always be a place for people to sell their time for education and/or
> >development to fill the gaps.
> >
> >T

0
mwright
2/16/2005 8:02:52 PM
* turning red *

Gee, thanks guys.  Gosh, now I feel so good I just want to give away
free software.

huh?
0
Tony
2/16/2005 10:20:26 PM
Tony Gravagno wrote:
> * turning red *
> 
> Gee, thanks guys.  Gosh, now I feel so good I just want to give away
> free software.
> 
> huh?
Tony put down the beer *now*.
Don't turn red, bill em till they do. ;) I rarely post
*complete solutions* because that would make me a sl**
instead of a wh***. I have some standards and one is
you can't give it away.

My 2, Patrick <;=)

P.S. By the way, I'll  Fourth or err.. Fifth your
comments.
0
Patrick
2/16/2005 11:51:55 PM
6th?
"Patrick Latimer" <"Patrick Latimer"> wrote in message 
news:18idnVoS4IwJQY7fRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> Tony Gravagno wrote:
>> * turning red *
>>
>> Gee, thanks guys.  Gosh, now I feel so good I just want to give away
>> free software.
>>
>> huh?
> Tony put down the beer *now*.
> Don't turn red, bill em till they do. ;) I rarely post
> *complete solutions* because that would make me a sl**
> instead of a wh***. I have some standards and one is
> you can't give it away.
>
> My 2, Patrick <;=)
>
> P.S. By the way, I'll  Fourth or err.. Fifth your
> comments. 


0
Simon
2/17/2005 9:37:13 PM
My apologies to all; after rereading this I can certainly see where it comes 
across as a bit 'trollish'. (not to mention outside of the appropriate 
thread). I guess that was triggered by the last pint of the evening. ( a 
fishersmoke moment if you will). I really didn't mean to come across so 
abrasive and do hope you forgive me. My point was that education i.e. 
training on how to use the ancillary middleware products which are offered 
by most pick-like providers (and are industry standards) should be the 
services that you charge for and not proprietary solutions involving 
terminal emulators or csv files or anything to that extent.

again, I apologize.

-Jim

"Kevin Powick" <nospam@spamless.com> wrote in message 
news:xn0dyj2qkk851n000@news21.on.aibn.com...
> Jim wrote:
>
>> How many times can we see the same request from someone who wants to
>> access data from a 'pick' database through what has come to be
>> 'standard' practices (odbc, oledb)
>> and still get the same old sloppy ' buy this proprietary utility (and
>> above all, my services)'  answer. I think most of these pick flavors
>> should have some sort of layer (by now!) to handle this; If someone
>> needs to do this, the service is really 'education' i.e to show them
>> how. Lets cut the shit now and stop with this tired and silly BS and
>> sad marketing schlock.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Jim
>
> Jim who?  I wonder?
>
> What is this? An attack on capitalism?  Providing services for those
> who perhaps lack the time, skill, or knowledge to perform such tasks is
> hardly a crime.
>
> Maybe "standard" odbc and oledb isn't good enough or practical for all
> situations.
>
> Education?  Well, put up or shut up.  I don't see your long, detailed
> posts explaining how to do these things, nor any offers for one on one
> personal assistance.  Is that because it would take time?  And for
> many, time actually is money?
>
> -- 
> Kevin Powick 


0
Jim
2/22/2005 6:52:03 AM
Reply: