f



Pick a PICK

Hi,

I last programmed in PICK on an Ultimate mini back in the late 80's
and early 90's. I am thinking of brushing up on my PICK skills and am
wondering:

1) If you think there is any life left in PICK: are there any sales of
PICK-based systems to *new* client companies these days, or is it all
legacy support?
2) What PICK vendor offering you personally recommend (support,
financial health of vendor)

Thanks.
0
Hlafordlaes
9/7/2009 1:55:23 PM
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#1: I know that there are software vendors with multivalue-based
applications who are actively selling their apps to new end users.
#2: I'm biased, but I would definitely have to recommend Intersystem's
Cach=E9 database. It's an actively developed and enhanced modern product
from a healthy company that gives you many more features out of the
box than any other vender's offering.

On Sep 7, 9:55=A0am, Hlafordlaes <hlafordl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I last programmed in PICK on an Ultimate mini back in the late 80's
> and early 90's. I am thinking of brushing up on my PICK skills and am
> wondering:
>
> 1) If you think there is any life left in PICK: are there any sales of
> PICK-based systems to *new* client companies these days, or is it all
> legacy support?
> 2) What PICK vendor offering you personally recommend (support,
> financial health of vendor)
>
> Thanks.

0
edclark
9/7/2009 2:47:54 PM
On Sep 7, 10:47=A0am, edclark <edcl...@aol.com> wrote:
> I'm biased, but I would definitely have to recommend Intersystem's
> Cach=E9 database. It's an actively developed and enhanced modern product
> from a healthy company that gives you many more features out of the
> box than any other vender's offering.

Except that Cache is not Pick.  :-)  It's MUMPS with recently added
multi-value extensions.  There's nothing wrong with that.  As you
said, it comes with a lot of features, is actively developed, and the
company is in good shape.

Personally, my bias is towards OpenQM.  Very Pick like and has quite a
few compatibility settings to give you different "Flavours" of Pick.
I.e. D3, Universe, etc.   Great support.  Good pricing, including free
developer versions.

http://www.openqm.com

Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/openqm/topics

--
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
9/7/2009 4:38:37 PM
On Sep 7, 8:55=A0am, Hlafordlaes <hlafordl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I last programmed in PICK on an Ultimate mini back in the late 80's
> and early 90's. I am thinking of brushing up on my PICK skills and am
> wondering:
>
> 1) If you think there is any life left in PICK: are there any sales of
> PICK-based systems to *new* client companies these days, or is it all
> legacy support?

I am writing a new software offering (software as a service) using a
PICK, aka MV, aka MultiValue platform.

> 2) What PICK vendor offering you personally recommend (support,
> financial health of vendor)

I am writing the software using InterSystems Cache'. I have researched
this area heavily and would not choose any other MV vendor to start a
new system with at this time, although I can see sticking with one you
have already invested in if it has the features you like.  --dawn

> Thanks.

0
dawn
9/7/2009 4:50:52 PM
On Sep 7, 11:38=A0am, Kevin Powick <kpow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 10:47=A0am, edclark <edcl...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm biased, but I would definitely have to recommend Intersystem's
> > Cach=E9 database. It's an actively developed and enhanced modern produc=
t
> > from a healthy company that gives you many more features out of the
> > box than any other vender's offering.
>
> Except that Cache is not Pick. =A0:-) =A0It's MUMPS with recently added
> multi-value extensions. =A0

It is "not PICK" in a similar way to jBASE being "not PICK" perhaps,
in that the p-machine in which it runs is a bit different and MV is
integrated into a MUMPS environment. It is fast. The mvquery language
generates SQL, which is the fastest SQL I have seen inside or outside
of the MV space (I have done no benchmarks of it, but others have).

So, if you think of PICK as an OS, it is not PICK, If you think of it
as the physical storage on the disk, it is not PICK, but if you think
of it as the data model (riding on top of a broader data model in this
case) and/or languages, it is a MultiValue data model. It has MVBASIC
and the MV query language, with SQL that outperforms MV query (only
slightly bz mvquery gen's SQL), an AJAX framework, a SOAP
implementation, and api's for lots more than the average MV
environment.  --dawn

> There's nothing wrong with that. =A0As you
> said, it comes with a lot of features, is actively developed, and the
> company is in good shape.
<snip>
0
dawn
9/7/2009 4:59:33 PM
Thanks everyone. Now taking a look at the two suggested products. Glad
I came here to ask; had been perusing other PICK-like products that
all seemed in their death throes.

Looks like the field has moved way beyond dumping a DOS session screen
capture in order to move data outta PICK (yes, I date from IT B.C.).

H.
0
Hlafordlaes
9/7/2009 5:20:30 PM
On Sep 7, 12:50=A0pm, dawn <dawnwolth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am writing the software using... Insert one of the following:

QM, Cache, jBASE, Reality, D3, Universe, Unidata, etc...

> I have researched
> this area heavily and would not choose any other MV vendor to start a
> new system with at this time

You are going to get a lot of opinions like the above.  The point is
that the MV market is actually not dead, there is quite a bit of
selection, and each of the products will have aspects that may be more
suited to your  development needs than others.

All you can do is research the various offerings to see which best
falls in lines with your needs.

--
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
9/7/2009 5:38:30 PM
I believe their is plenty of life left in "pick" --> and unlike COBOL
(which has been "dieing" for at least 20 years now!), there ARE new
"pick" sales being made ... even replacing "mainstream" SQL products.

However, the bigger question  I suppose is "what is the end game you
are looking at?"

Are you looking to develop new software yourself? Seek employment with
an active vendor? an end user? Chase support for any "orphan" sites
out there.

If you are looking at developing (from scratch), that potentially
represents a major investment in time & money and is a more long term
proposition. With mosty of the others, the "vendor" isn't necessarily
important, as that is likely to be already entrenched.

The current role call of vendors includes :

TigerLogic (pka Pick Systems & Raining Data)  with "D3", the latest
incarnation of "pick", and mvBase (General Automation & Sequoa
heritage)
Northgate Information Systems with "Reality" (a name that has been
around since your BC background)
IBM (Universe & Unidata Databases), typically referred to as "U2" and
IBM is a brand with market visibility
InterSystems with Cache - (pka MUMPS) a "new" entrant into the "pick
world", but historically a close cousin
Revelation - you may have been aware of the original DOS product, but
it ain't Kansas anymore!!!
jBase - original product came out around the time you were exiting the
scene I believe
openQM, developed by Ladybridge Systems - everyone raves over support
and responsiveness!
UniVision - produced by EDP in the UK, sold by Via SYstems in USA

HTH
0
Ross
9/7/2009 10:02:22 PM
On Sep 7, 9:55=A0am, Hlafordlaes <hlafordl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I last programmed in PICK on an Ultimate mini back in the late 80's
> and early 90's. I am thinking of brushing up on my PICK skills and am
> wondering:
>
> 1) If you think there is any life left in PICK: are there any sales of
> PICK-based systems to *new* client companies these days, or is it all
> legacy support?
> 2) What PICK vendor offering you personally recommend (support,
> financial health of vendor)
>
> Thanks.

We are using QM and are quite happy with it.  We also just added 2 new
programmers.  One with some web development experience but no Pick
background and the other is totally green - no programming experience
at all.

Eugene
0
eppick77
9/8/2009 2:37:15 PM
I completely agree with Kevin.  The responses here are likely to be
more along the lines of "I like my product" than a non-partisan
evaluation of the state of the market.  Here's my take on the market
at the moment with regard to the specific questions asked.

The MV DBMS providers all have excellent per-incident Support.  I know
because I have almost all of the MV DBMS products installed and I do
contact the vendors for support.  In my experience, support people at
all companies are quick to respond, courteous, knowledgable, and they
tend to resolve issues in a very reasonable timeframe.  I am
occasionally disappointed when someone points to some unrelated
enviroment detail as being an initial reason for not investigating a
problem more closely, but cordial and professional exchanges always
keep the conversations flowing to an acceptable resolution.

The differences are seen in how long each company takes to provide
product changes in response to requests.  QM can be fixed or enhanced
within hours or days, and Martin provides phenomenally fast and
efficient support - I dare say the best in this market.  The other
vendors provide changes on a more quarterly basis at best, and
sometimes changes don't come for years if ever.  That said, and I
won't go into this in detail (again), but without a staff and other
considerations, Martin can be much more agile than his competitors,
providing fast support and a lower-cost product.  But where is the
business without Martin?  That question should be key in determining
if QM is right for you.

The OP did ask about company sizes, but company size is not the prime
criteron by which one can measure a company, and as we see you can get
excellent support from a small company like Ladybridge.
- IBM is, well, IBM.  They're as big as any company gets but I have
never really seen how this has translated into better software for
their user/developers.  IBM's value to the U2 base is simply it's
name, and for many that's enough.  They support the products well but
it's not like they've turned them into any world-class competitor in a
technical or business sense.
- Northgate Information Systems which provides Reality is (was?)
valued at something like US$2B but that weight doesn't seem to help
the Reality user/developer base to grow.
- InterSystems which provides Cach� is also one of the biggies,
pulling in something like $250M/year in Sales (more notes below).

The other companies are much smaller.  Aside from sheer money in the
bank, none of the DBMS companies really seem more or less stable than
their competitors.  So if you like big partners, you have them.  If
you like small and agile, you have that too.

What I take issue with is that few of the MV DBMS companies seem to
have much interest in marketing to a mainstream audience to make their
MV product line easier for their channel to sell.  I wouldn't
recommend a "Pick and Proud" marketing campaign by any means but
something between that and complete obscurity would be welcome.
- You won't catch IBM talking about U2 even though (open to
correction) U2 sales is better than DB2 sales these days.  Talk about
hiding the step-children...  To this day IBM sales people still don't
know anything about U2, U2 isn't positioned with other IBM offerings,
and other IBM products aren't integrated with U2.
- InterSystems doesn't really market the MultiValueness of their
product, but they don't need to either.  All they need to do is to
market Cach� (which the do Very well) and any MV application running
on Cach� is suddenly a competitor in the mainstream market.  That's
huge but I don't think most people "get" that yet.  And I'm amazed
that InterSystems still isn't selling their main product to the MV
community, which is not Cach� but InterSystems itself as a business
partner.
- Revelation is (was?) probably doing the best job of marketing MV
outside of the MV market.  But OpenInsight has never really been
considered one of the core MV products within this market, and a win
for OI isn't really a win for MV.  If you want a better idea of what's
going on in the OI world you'll need to get closer to that world than
this one ... so to speak.

Anyone I haven't mentioned simply doesn't stand out.  They're there,
stable, probably doing a decent job, just not doing anything
exceptional in the market to warrant special mention (IMO).

Going with any of the MV platforms doesn't seem to be a right or wrong
decision on it's own.  But if you market your offering as a Pick-based
product rather than as a mainstream solution, I think you're going to
get killed (translate as "you probably won't sell much").  This
economy is tough enough - it's suicide (translate as "not a good
idea") if you introduce yourself to a new prospect as anything other
than mainstream and completely in sync with the rest of the world.
Does that mean you should be using mainstream tools and not MV?
That's for you to decide.  For years, I've been encouraging people to
use mainstream tools to augment their MV products so that they can
offer the best of both worlds.

Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products
worldwide, and provides related development services
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! 
0
Tony
9/8/2009 7:01:48 PM
On 7 Sep, 14:55, Hlafordlaes <hlafordl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I last programmed in PICK on an Ultimate mini back in the late 80's
> and early 90's. I am thinking of brushing up on my PICK skills and am
> wondering:
>
> 1) If you think there is any life left in PICK: are there any sales of
> PICK-based systems to *new* client companies these days, or is it all
> legacy support?
> 2) What PICK vendor offering you personally recommend (support,
> financial health of vendor)
>
> Thanks.

openqm
0
Tronic
9/8/2009 10:40:45 PM
Personally i would recommend IBM U2 - it has the name, and a host of
toolsets for development including java, .net etc access to other
databases socket/html/soap/xml apis etc. As a full set i think they
give more than anyone else. You can get the personal edition from the
site (either unidata or universe)
0
Symeonb
9/10/2009 11:09:56 AM
Reply:

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"Sky Three" and "Sky3" redirect here. For the 3D channel, see Sky 3D . For the album, see Sky 3 (album) . Freeview , and via subscription on ...

Facebook Game Sports Pick ‘Em Opens Playbook To Brands
People love sports . Sports fans love bragging rights. OHK Sports tapped into this sentiment for a fun Facebook game, SportsPicker , which allows ...

A rare interview with former no. 1 overall pick Greg Oden about his injury-plagued career - Grantland ...
In a rare and candid interview, the former top pick in the NBA draft discusses his injury-plagued career.

Uber picks up Facebook’s head of international growth
Uber, which was the employment destination of Facebook public policy managers Andrew Noyes and Corey Owens , recently hired another social network ...

Many peaks to climb for Melbourne motorists as school pick-up, Saturday outings, boost traffic woes
No longer are there just the morning peak and the evening peak on Melbourne's roads. Parents picking children up from school, tradies knocking ...

Poll: Americans divided over Supreme Court pick timing
New numbers from a NBC/Wall Street Journal poll find an even split among American voters over whether the Senate should vote on a nominee to ...

Blakely: Best chance to deal pick on draft night
... Butler or Memphis’ Marc Gasol. What player was Danny Ainge talking about when he said the Celtics were “very close” to dealing the Nets pick? ...

11 Stock Picks In The $80 Billion Virtual Reality Market
11 Stock Picks In The $80 Billion Virtual Reality Market

Senate Republicans easing on blockade of Obama court pick?
Senate Republicans easing on blockade of Obama court pick?

Resources last updated: 2/20/2016 3:05:26 PM