f



Pick on Windows

Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play with
the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked, answered
and flogged to death before.

Thanks
Elio


0
Elio
11/4/2003 8:33:02 PM
comp.databases.pick 5449 articles. 2 followers. ttrroonniicc (5) is leader. Post Follow

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Have a look here:
https://www-927.ibm.com/software/data/u2/support/u2techconnect/udt6pe.asp

Ron White

"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
> ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play
with
> the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked,
answered
> and flogged to death before.
>
> Thanks
> Elio
>
>




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
0
Ron
11/4/2003 9:12:12 PM
You can download a personal edition of Unidata from IBM at this URL...



https://www-927.ibm.com/

software/data/u2/support/u2techconnect/udt6pe.asp


--
Roger Hughes


Posted via http://dbforums.com
0
rog
11/4/2003 10:04:28 PM
Free valuation version of jbase available here ...
http://www.jbase.com/products/download_info.html

"rog" <rhughes@advantagesolutions.com> wrote in message
news:3559707.1067983468@dbforums.com...
>
> You can download a personal edition of Unidata from IBM at this URL...
>
>
>
> https://www-927.ibm.com/
>
> software/data/u2/support/u2techconnect/udt6pe.asp
>
>
> --
> Roger Hughes
>
>
> Posted via http://dbforums.com


0
Rob
11/4/2003 10:41:00 PM
Re your requirement for a Windows implementation of a Pick style
database, take a look at our QM product on www.ladybridge.com.  This
may meet your needs.  The QMClient API allows you to generate a
Windows style front end very easily if you need to get away from the
traditional Pick style character interface.

Martin Phillips
Ladybridge Systems.
0
mjp
11/5/2003 9:54:15 PM
"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I

Not forgetting the download of OpenInsight (Pick datastructures, Pick Basic,
Pick Dictionaries and an in built native Windows 32 development environment
optimised for MV) available from www.revelation.com or www.revsoft.co.uk.


0
Andrew
11/6/2003 7:04:14 AM
"Andrew McAuley" <amcauley_notreally@sprezzatura.com> wrote in message news:<bocrpd$a46$1@hercules.btinternet.com>...
> "Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
> > personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I
> 
> Not forgetting the download of OpenInsight (Pick datastructures, Pick Basic,
> Pick Dictionaries and an in built native Windows 32 development environment
> optimised for MV) available from www.revelation.com or www.revsoft.co.uk.

fuck off you piece of shit
0
mynewemailaddressiti
11/6/2003 1:31:35 PM
mynewemailaddressitis@yahoo.co.uk (delusion) wrote in message news:<e279b74b.0311060531.3983e04d@posting.google.com>...
> "Andrew McAuley" <amcauley_notreally@sprezzatura.com> wrote in message news:<bocrpd$a46$1@hercules.btinternet.com>...
> > "Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
> > > personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I
> > 
> > Not forgetting the download of OpenInsight (Pick datastructures, Pick Basic,
> > Pick Dictionaries and an in built native Windows 32 development environment
> > optimised for MV) available from www.revelation.com or www.revsoft.co.uk.
> 
> fuck off you piece of shit

Hello Mark,

Have a look at PixieEngine. Convert PickBasic to VB, and then can use
SQL datastores or some traditional PICK datastores to store data in
PICK format. More info at wwwDOTpixierwareDOTcom.

I would be happy to answer your queries.

Thanks.

Sincerely,
Dave Johnstone. (Ph: 519-571-1531 - temp Canada)
HTML and PixieWare the new GUI for PICK
http://wwwDOTpixiewareDOTcom    mailto:daveATpixiewareDOTcom
0
dave
11/10/2003 3:55:55 PM
"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
> ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play with
> the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked, answered
> and flogged to death before.
> 
> Thanks
> Elio

From: L.W. Abel (lw@picksys.com)
Subject: Re: Pick on Windows
 
View this article only
Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick
Date: 1995/08/29

You raised some very cogent points. I have passed
this posting to our Product Manager for reply.

Cheers,

L.

Henry writes:  It seems evident that this posting was never passed to
the Product Manager - between now and August 1995.

Henry Keultjes
lastnameatearthlinkdotnet
0
csigline
11/10/2003 7:16:48 PM
I believe jBASE has one.  I strongly recommend that you take at look
at jBASE.  Once you use jBASE, you'll never go back to one of the
others.

Tom

On 10 Nov 2003 11:16:48 -0800, csigline@hotmail.com (Henry Keultjes)
wrote:

>"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
>> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
>> ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play with
>> the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked, answered
>> and flogged to death before.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Elio
>
>From: L.W. Abel (lw@picksys.com)
>Subject: Re: Pick on Windows
> 
>View this article only
>Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick
>Date: 1995/08/29
>
>You raised some very cogent points. I have passed
>this posting to our Product Manager for reply.
>
>Cheers,
>
>L.
>
>Henry writes:  It seems evident that this posting was never passed to
>the Product Manager - between now and August 1995.
>
>Henry Keultjes
>lastnameatearthlinkdotnet

0
I
11/11/2003 4:39:01 PM
In article <n242rv0gt71ta061v5jineh0gv97qr97vs@4ax.com>, spam@ham.com (I 
Love SPAM!) wrote:

> I believe jBASE has one.  I strongly recommend that you take at look
> at jBASE.  Once you use jBASE, you'll never go back to one of the
> others.
> 
> Tom

Could you go back if you wanted to?

Paul.
0
numen
11/11/2003 5:25:49 PM
No, sorry it's not an option. It's in the Jbase contract! Just kidding!

I have to admit. I just changed to Jbase and I would have a heard time 
going back. Their (Jbase) support is fantastic! They don't justr say do 
a restore no matter what the problem is.

Rich Kann
Comp-Ware Systems, Inc.

numen@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> In article <n242rv0gt71ta061v5jineh0gv97qr97vs@4ax.com>, spam@ham.com (I 
> Love SPAM!) wrote:
> 
> 
>>I believe jBASE has one.  I strongly recommend that you take at look
>>at jBASE.  Once you use jBASE, you'll never go back to one of the
>>others.
>>
>>Tom
> 
> 
> Could you go back if you wanted to?
> 
> Paul.

0
Richard
11/12/2003 2:41:42 AM
No, it was a business decision (not mine) to not advertise the
software on the web site as a free demo, even though that's exactly
how it can and has been used for years.  You can still download D3
from the RD FTP site and registered developers get free software plus
one year of support.

Old FAQ, let the dead horse rest.  Google for details.

Tony
(a former Product Manager)

csigline@hotmail.com (Henry Keultjes) wrote:

>"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
>> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
>> ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play with
>> the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked, answered
>> and flogged to death before.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Elio
>
>From: L.W. Abel (lw@picksys.com)
>Subject: Re: Pick on Windows
> 
>View this article only
>Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick
>Date: 1995/08/29
>
>You raised some very cogent points. I have passed
>this posting to our Product Manager for reply.
>
>Cheers,
>
>L.
>
>Henry writes:  It seems evident that this posting was never passed to
>the Product Manager - between now and August 1995.
>
>Henry Keultjes
>lastnameatearthlinkdotnet

0
Tony
11/12/2003 6:13:57 AM
Are you referring to Raining Data support? 

I don't believe I've ever received that advice for D3 (definitely did for 
AP/Native!), but this was Proplus/Linux rather than NT. D3/NT and 
mvBase were so flakey in the early versions I developed an aversion to any 
version of Pick on M$ platform! I would imagine they're still number one 
for support calls if this ng is anything to go by.

Paul.

In article <4266a265bf721c3a38b8c14072fb6fa4@news.teranews.com>, 
eugene@comp-ware.net (Richard Kann) wrote:

> I have to admit. I just changed to Jbase and I would have a heard time 
> going back. Their (Jbase) support is fantastic! They don't justr say do 
> a restore no matter what the problem is.
> 
> Rich Kann
> Comp-Ware Systems, Inc.
> 
> numen@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
 
> > 
> > Could you go back if you wanted to?
> > 
> > Paul.
> 

0
numen
11/12/2003 11:46:24 AM
Who can register as developer ?
Tony Gravagno <g6q3x9lu53001@sneakemail.com.invalid> wrote in message news:<17j3rvs0cuhsg25rcdqahplh09s8m5jguv@4ax.com>...
> No, it was a business decision (not mine) to not advertise the
> software on the web site as a free demo, even though that's exactly
> how it can and has been used for years.  You can still download D3
> from the RD FTP site and registered developers get free software plus
> one year of support.
> 
> Old FAQ, let the dead horse rest.  Google for details.
> 
> Tony
> (a former Product Manager)
> 
> csigline@hotmail.com (Henry Keultjes) wrote:
> 
> >"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> >> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
> >> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
> >> ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play with
> >> the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked, answered
> >> and flogged to death before.
> >> 
> >> Thanks
> >> Elio
> >
> >From: L.W. Abel (lw@picksys.com)
> >Subject: Re: Pick on Windows
> > 
> >View this article only
> >Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick
> >Date: 1995/08/29
> >
> >You raised some very cogent points. I have passed
> >this posting to our Product Manager for reply.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >L.
> >
> >Henry writes:  It seems evident that this posting was never passed to
> >the Product Manager - between now and August 1995.
> >
> >Henry Keultjes
> >lastnameatearthlinkdotnet
0
superks00
11/12/2003 11:54:23 AM
I'm glad jbase has another convert. I must say, however, that in my 
limited experience, jbase support never did answer the simplest 
questions I had (simple to me, that is) and the jbase elist was more 
helpful...

Perhaps I look at things thru the (old style) Pick lens. In dealing with 
jbase, I am constantly amazed at the design decisions they made, and the 
subsequent corrections so Pick apps would work, and the ever-present 
explanation that "we couldn't do it that way, this is jbase not Pick, 
but if you insist, here's a workaround". I won't bore y'all again with 
the well-documented and annoying Cataloging problem.

But lately there was a comment that if you Open a file in a subroutine, 
on return all locked items for that file are automatically (and 
invisibly) released!! This was clearly an oversight (ie return from 
sub->de-allocate variables-> if variable is file then Close & Release 
locks) -(who the hell would want it work this way)- and an environmental 
var was later provided to not release the locks.

And check out the Index!!!
Besides the fact that they add new syntax BY-AR BY-DR etc, but 
apparently they forgot the most important, BY-EXP, the gem that follows 
shows that the designer knew nothing about the use of multi-values, 
maybe he's from comp.databases.theory:

[quote from jbase tech document]
This default usage of multi-values breaks down when multiple attributes 
are defined in the index definition. Consider the following index 
definition.

jsh --> create-index PRODUCTS BY 1 BY 2

In the above example we concatenate attribute 1 with attribute 2 to 
create the index definition. If we assume both attributes are 
multi-valued, then what does the above actually mean? Does it mean we 
take the 3 values in attribute 1, add the 3 values in attribute 2, this 
creates 6 values and so we create a total of 6 index keys ? Or does it 
mean we take value 1 from both attribute 1 and 2 and concatenate them to 
create a single value ? [me]YES like God and Pick meant you to![end me] 
If so, what happens when they have differing number of values in each 
attribute ? [me]Use nulls![end me]

As you can see, once we use 2 or more attributes the multi-value 
approach becomes difficult to solve in a logical and consistent manner.
[NO!] Therefore we will flag an error and the above example of 
create-index will fail. [Wonderful solution]

If you want to do a concatenation or some other complex definition, you 
can only do this in non-multi-value mode. With this option we will not 
do a multi-value extract but instead treat **the entire attribute as a 
single entity as though it had no multi-value marks.**
[end quote]

What an idiotic idea!! Who'd ever want to concatenate multivalues into 
one string as an index descriptor? Am I reading this wrong?

This is progress?

Chandu Murthi

Richard Kann wrote:
> No, sorry it's not an option. It's in the Jbase contract! Just kidding!
> 
> I have to admit. I just changed to Jbase and I would have a heard time 
> going back. Their (Jbase) support is fantastic! They don't justr say do 
> a restore no matter what the problem is.
> 
> Rich Kann
> Comp-Ware Systems, Inc.
> 
> numen@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> 
>> In article <n242rv0gt71ta061v5jineh0gv97qr97vs@4ax.com>, spam@ham.com 
>> (I Love SPAM!) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I believe jBASE has one.  I strongly recommend that you take at look
>>> at jBASE.  Once you use jBASE, you'll never go back to one of the
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> Could you go back if you wanted to?
>>
>> Paul.
> 
> 

0
cmurthi
11/12/2003 6:49:06 PM
These are my own words, please contact RD Sales for a more official
policy guide.  Reference Marketing Bulletin RDCMB200301.

In order to get the free licenses and support you need to show that
you have some business getting it.  If you think about it, with no
documentation, are these systems any good to anyone who doesn't
already know how to use them?  (Separate topic touched on below.)

You must register as a reseller.  RD has two basic categories of
2nd-tier resellers, 1st tier being RD itself.  There are Value-Add
Resellers, and there are Consultants.  A VAR already has software for
resale which adds value over and above the DBMS.  A Consultant does
not have a software product, but provides services to a number of
end-users, and may occasionally sell RD software in the process.  VARs
get more of a commission from sales than Developers because they are
presumed to offer a more complete solution.  My opinion on this policy
would be reserved for another thread.

So IF you are already providing product or services with RD products,
you may qualify as one of the above resellers, and you may qualify for
free developer licenses for any supported RD software.  Contact RD
Sales.

Now about who should be entitled to software?  I'm a firm believer
that anyone with interest should have access, but putting someone on a
horse with no saddle invites disaster.  There are no books "D3 for
Dummies", no "mvEnterprise Unleashed", or "jBASE for Complete Idiots".
Without proper intro material, we do people a dis-service to throw
software at them as though it were as easy as Notepad.  Until this
market shows interest in developing a "Step by Step Pick" book, I
don't think anyone should have access to the software unless they have
someone to hand-hold them.  I have lots of ideas to create
documentation, but I need to pay my bills too - unfortunately in our
market we can do one or the other, not both.  I've tried to spark
interest in this topic before, but failed.  With all of the twitchin
and moanin about free software for the masses we see in this
community, no one really cares enough to make it happen properly.

Tony


superks00@hotmail.com (ks) wrote:

>Who can register as developer ?
>Tony Gravagno <g6q3x9lu53001@sneakemail.com.invalid> wrote in message news:<17j3rvs0cuhsg25rcdqahplh09s8m5jguv@4ax.com>...
>> No, it was a business decision (not mine) to not advertise the
>> software on the web site as a free demo, even though that's exactly
>> how it can and has been used for years.  You can still download D3
>> from the RD FTP site and registered developers get free software plus
>> one year of support.
>> 
>> Old FAQ, let the dead horse rest.  Google for details.
>> 
>> Tony
>> (a former Product Manager)
>> 
>> csigline@hotmail.com (Henry Keultjes) wrote:
>> 
>> >"Elio" <elio.mazzucco@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<o4Upb.18263$mB5.554819@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>> >> Is there still a copy of Pick or Unidata available for (free) download for
>> >> personal use that will run on Windows NT or 2000? I seem to recall a while
>> >> ago that there was. I really could use it now that I have time to play with
>> >> the product. My apologies in advance if this topic has been asked, answered
>> >> and flogged to death before.
>> >> 
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Elio
>> >
>> >From: L.W. Abel (lw@picksys.com)
>> >Subject: Re: Pick on Windows
>> > 
>> >View this article only
>> >Newsgroups: comp.databases.pick
>> >Date: 1995/08/29
>> >
>> >You raised some very cogent points. I have passed
>> >this posting to our Product Manager for reply.
>> >
>> >Cheers,
>> >
>> >L.
>> >
>> >Henry writes:  It seems evident that this posting was never passed to
>> >the Product Manager - between now and August 1995.
>> >
>> >Henry Keultjes
>> >lastnameatearthlinkdotnet

0
Tony
11/12/2003 8:59:53 PM
"cmurthi" <xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net> wrote in message
news:3FB280A2.10200@quest.with.a.w.net...[snip]> But lately there was a
comment that if you Open a file in a subroutine,
> on return all locked items for that file are automatically (and
> invisibly) released!! This was clearly an oversight (ie return from
> sub->de-allocate variables-> if variable is file then Close & Release
> locks) -(who the hell would want it work this way)- and an environmental
> var was later provided to not release the locks.

I'm intrigued to note that this bug has resurfaced. I reported it about four
years ago, and was mightily impressed when jBASE (then JAC) shipped us a fix
overnight. I'd have thought they'd mark up the code with comments indicating
fix and the reasoning behind it.

> And check out the Index!!!
[snip long quote]

I that your answer is the simplest, and the way I would want it to work.
Probably the only elegant solution, if fact.

In the days when I was working with jBASE, I generally thought they made
good value judgements, doing their best to maintain compatibility, but avoid
some of the more bizarre behaviours of the various earlier implementations.
I guess you can only maintain that kind of balance as long as you have one
person with a strong grip on the development directions.

Luke


0
Luke
11/13/2003 11:56:39 AM
Luke Webber wrote:
> "cmurthi" <xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net> wrote in message
> news:3FB280A2.10200@quest.with.a.w.net...[snip]> But lately there was a
> comment that if you Open a file in a subroutine,
> 
>>on return all locked items for that file are automatically (and
>>invisibly) released!! This was clearly an oversight (ie return from
>>sub->de-allocate variables-> if variable is file then Close & Release
>>locks) -(who the hell would want it work this way)- and an environmental
>>var was later provided to not release the locks.
> 
> 
> I'm intrigued to note that this bug has resurfaced. I reported it about four
> years ago, and was mightily impressed when jBASE (then JAC) shipped us a fix
> overnight. I'd have thought they'd mark up the code with comments indicating
> fix and the reasoning behind it.

I should've made it clearer-it's not a new 'bug', just someone on the 
jbase elist who mentioned it. The way around it is an env variable which 
makes it work correctly.  Chandru

0
cmurthi
11/13/2003 4:07:40 PM
In article <3FB3AC4C.9060601@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...

> I should've made it clearer-it's not a new 'bug', just someone on the 
> jbase elist who mentioned it. The way around it is an env variable which 
> makes it work correctly.  Chandru

Or incorrectly, depending on your point of view.

It's amazing how someone can rant about something that has not only 
never been a problem for them, but isn't even a problem for anyone.

You have too much free time on your hands.

-- 
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
11/13/2003 5:12:38 PM
Are we perhaps not talking about the same thing? I'll restate:

  You're in a BASIC subroutine;
  You OPEN a file to a LOCAL filevariable;
  You then do whatever with the file; read/write etc
  You RETURN

jbase Closes the LOCAL filevariable (correct) and also Releases any 
locks that might have been previously present on the FILE (from 
overlying subs and mainline.)

Can you imagine the problems this can cause? I'll just state that many 
apps I'm familiar with (and/or written) would break under this 
condition. And, since you asked, we're evaluating jbase an an 
alternative to UV, and subtleties like this are well researched 
beforehand, not after installation.

And why? Because the designer called the standard FileClose routine 
which is used on the explict "CLOSE file" BASIC instruction and on STOP 
of the mainline progam (where this action is correct.) The env variable 
later added (as Luke noted, in doubletime) solved this.

Chandru Murthi

Kevin Powick wrote:
> In article <3FB3AC4C.9060601@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
> xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...
> 
> 
>>I should've made it clearer-it's not a new 'bug', just someone on the 
>>jbase elist who mentioned it. The way around it is an env variable which 
>>makes it work correctly.  Chandru
> 
> 
> Or incorrectly, depending on your point of view.
> 
> It's amazing how someone can rant about something that has not only 
> never been a problem for them, but isn't even a problem for anyone.
> 
> You have too much free time on your hands.
> 

0
cmurthi
11/13/2003 6:29:12 PM
In article <3FB3CD78.3090303@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...

> Are we perhaps not talking about the same thing? I'll restate:
> 
>   You're in a BASIC subroutine;
>   You OPEN a file to a LOCAL filevariable;
>   You then do whatever with the file; read/write etc
>   You RETURN
> 
> jbase Closes the LOCAL filevariable (correct) and also Releases any 
> locks that might have been previously present on the FILE (from 
> overlying subs and mainline.)
> 
> Can you imagine the problems this can cause? 

I'll restate as well.

The option exists in jBASE NOT to do this (you even mention it in your 
post), thus duplicating the behaviour you are accustomed to in other 
Pick variants.

So, again, how can this be a problem for you and your existing apps?

Why rant about a "problem" that does not exist?

-- 
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
11/13/2003 7:26:16 PM
I was merely responding to your 1) "Or incorrectly, depending on your 
point of view." which is not *my* point of view, it's just plain 
incorrect. There could never any reason to do it the "jbase way". If you 
don't accept that, so be it.

2) "how someone can rant about something that has not only never been a 
problem for anyone..." if you notice, I was researching jbase, and I 
noted that a user found this problem, and had to be pointed to the env 
variable that fixes it (by the jbase elist.) So this shows even 
experienced users can get bitten. Maybe a problem that "doesn't exist" 
according to you, but a serious problem waiting in the wings for 
convertors nevertheless.

But, as I doubt jbase will take any heed, as you imply, it is not very 
productive.

Chandru

Kevin Powick wrote:
> In article <3FB3CD78.3090303@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
> xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...
> 
> 
>>Are we perhaps not talking about the same thing? I'll restate:
>>
>>  You're in a BASIC subroutine;
>>  You OPEN a file to a LOCAL filevariable;
>>  You then do whatever with the file; read/write etc
>>  You RETURN
>>
>>jbase Closes the LOCAL filevariable (correct) and also Releases any 
>>locks that might have been previously present on the FILE (from 
>>overlying subs and mainline.)
>>
>>Can you imagine the problems this can cause? 
> 
> 
> I'll restate as well.
> 
> The option exists in jBASE NOT to do this (you even mention it in your 
> post), thus duplicating the behaviour you are accustomed to in other 
> Pick variants.
> 
> So, again, how can this be a problem for you and your existing apps?
> 
> Why rant about a "problem" that does not exist?
> 

0
cmurthi
11/13/2003 10:03:07 PM
In article <3FB3FF9B.7020407@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...

> I was merely responding to your 1) "Or incorrectly, depending on your 
> point of view." which is not *my* point of view, it's just plain 
> incorrect. There could never any reason to do it the "jbase way".

How about the reason that it doesn't make any sense what so ever to re-
open a file in a subroutine that was already opened in the mainline 
program?  That is simply sloppy coding that Pick let you get away with.
 
> 2) "how someone can rant about something that has not only never been a 
> problem for anyone..." if you notice, I was researching jbase, and I 
> noted that a user found this problem, and had to be pointed to the env 
> variable that fixes it

Fix implies broken, when it never was.  I'll give you that it was not a 
true/compatible emulation of "Pick", but that doesn't mean it was 
"wrong", only different than what you expected, based on a different 
view of how one should write code.  Just because Pick was first doesn't 
mean it was right, or wrong for that matter.

It's interesting that this "problem" never "bit" me when I converted 
our AP/Pro and D3 systems to jBASE.  Maybe it's because I didn't do 
silly things like try to re-open files that were already open?

> But, as I doubt jbase will take any heed, as you imply, it is not very 
> productive.

Another unsubstantiated statement.  jBASE has done more to accommodate 
the idiosyncrasies and poor logic of more Pick variants than anyone.  
Case in point is this very "issue".  Like you, some people didn't like 
the behaviour, so jBASE made it work any way you want.  What more do 
you want?

Btw, if your so damn happy with your current system, why are you 
considering a conversion to jBASE anyway?

I'm of the opinion that some customers aren't worth "landing".  If I 
was running jBASE I would certainly encourage you to seek another 
vendor, then both of us would be happy.

-- 
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
11/13/2003 10:39:01 PM
"Kevin Powick" wrote
> I'm of the opinion that some customers aren't worth "landing".


Shades of the RawBits adverts...   :)



0
Frank
11/14/2003 1:41:59 AM
Kevin Powick wrote:
> In article <3FB3FF9B.7020407@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
> xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...
> 
> 
>>I was merely responding to your 1) "Or incorrectly, depending on your 
>>point of view." which is not *my* point of view, it's just plain 
>>incorrect. There could never any reason to do it the "jbase way".
> 
> How about the reason that it doesn't make any sense what so ever to re-
> open a file in a subroutine that was already opened in the mainline 
> program?  That is simply sloppy coding that Pick let you get away with.

It's not necessarily so, Kevin. Many reasons that you might do this, 
from, say a RAD tool which opens files based on variables and does not 
always know it's open elsewhere, to, as you put it, sloppy programming. 
How about if the original fv is not in Common and not passed as a var to 
the subr? Would you recode the Common or the subroutine parameters and 
all the calling sequences rather than inserting one Open statement? How 
about if you have a generalized OpenFile subroutine which you pass a 
filename to and it needs to open the file locally? And so on.

But that does not excuse the error. The *program* should not decide when 
to release locks, the programmer should. This is called a side-effect, 
and you know what the theorists have to say about that. In jbase's case, 
it was probably just an oversight.

>>2) "how someone can rant about something that has not only never been a 
>>problem for anyone..." if you notice, I was researching jbase, and I 
>>noted that a user found this problem, and had to be pointed to the env 
>>variable that fixes it
> 
> Fix implies broken, when it never was.  I'll give you that it was not a 
> true/compatible emulation of "Pick", but that doesn't mean it was 
> "wrong", only different than what you expected, based on a different 
> view of how one should write code.  Just because Pick was first doesn't 
> mean it was right, or wrong for that matter.

No, based on a view on how a system should work. Never said Pick was 
best or error-free, just that if you're emulating it, and you make a 
error like this, it's just that-an error, not an improvement.

> It's interesting that this "problem" never "bit" me when I converted 
> our AP/Pro and D3 systems to jBASE.  Maybe it's because I didn't do 
> silly things like try to re-open files that were already open?

To each his own. Perhaps you are a more careful and prudent programmer 
than most.

>>But, as I doubt jbase will take any heed, as you imply, it is not very 
>>productive.
> 
> 
> Another unsubstantiated statement.  jBASE has done more to accommodate 
> the idiosyncrasies and poor logic of more Pick variants than anyone.  
> Case in point is this very "issue".  Like you, some people didn't like 
> the behaviour, so jBASE made it work any way you want.  What more do 
> you want?

I meant productive in a larger sense. This issue is moot. Just makes me 
realize that converting to jbase (like Unidata) requires a careful 
reading of all the semi-hidden stuff. I don't know exactly why this gets 
your goat so much, Kevin, because to me its mostly a theoretical 
issue...opionions aside, there is clearly a base set of functionality 
that defines Pick. It would have been better if this had been codified 
and standardized like SMA began to do 15 years ago (of course, even then 
I doubt that this type of thing would've been mentioned.) As shown with 
my unproductive debates with JI over these issues, jbase has made 
decisions that were more in a vacuum than otherwise. Changes seem to 
have been made for change's sake, rather than thought through. None of 
this is surprising (emulation is a tough business,) and none of it 
matters much if you're not in looking at it though a systems 
lens-application programmers always find a way out.

I'm reacting more to the messianistic fervor of the jbase-ites (check 
the archives,) their circle-the-wagons approach to any criticism, their 
superiority in saying 'it's not Pick' when it wouldn't even exist if it 
wasn't for Pick. Other than being 'closer to the OS' (is that an 
advantage?) has jbase pushed the mv envelope any? Is jQl better 
substantively than AQL? Does it handle submultiple values? Does it have 
anything approaching a schema? Does it even do one-to-many translates 
correctly (out on a limb with this one, it may...) Does it have a true 
update mechanism? Does it have a good RAD? Is it case-insensitive like 
Gates decreed? Does it have a Page generator? Is the user interface 
improved by having mixed Pick-Unix-like syntax? No, it's just a flawed, 
though perfectly workable, emulation of Pick.

> Btw, if your so damn happy with your current system, why are you 
> considering a conversion to jBASE anyway?

It's late and I did have too much time on my hands, but no more...Check 
the archives for this one.

Chandru Murthi

> I'm of the opinion that some customers aren't worth "landing".  If I 
> was running jBASE I would certainly encourage you to seek another 
> vendor, then both of us would be happy.


0
cmurthi
11/14/2003 2:45:40 AM
Luke,

I'm not sure this is still the case. We just upgraded to 3.4.4.4, and found
several new bugs had cropped up. We were told that a patch existed for one that
had affected us in a big way, but only for the current release - and of course,
they'd had a couple of ...n releases since. They suggested we upgrade again. In
the time it takes to evaluate the new release, schedule downtime to upgrade,
and work the new release enough to spot bugs that aren't readily apparent in
testing, another release is out, again preventing a patch to fix the bugs.
Round and round we go.....  :^(

Regards,
Charlie Noah

"Luke Webber" <luke@webber.com.au> writes:

>I'm intrigued to note that this bug has resurfaced. I reported it about four
>years ago, and was mightily impressed when jBASE (then JAC) shipped us a fix
>overnight. I'd have thought they'd mark up the code with comments indicating
>fix and the reasoning behind it.
>
>Luke



Charlie Noah (CWNoah2@aol.com)
0
cwnoah2
11/14/2003 12:26:38 PM
Kevin,

Does "anyone" include me? If so, please don't presume to speak for me. This was
indeed a problem for me, and the only thing that saved us a lot of work on
legacy code was the env variable which turned off this dangerous and dumb
behavior. Not everyone who ports to Jbase has the luxury of writing pristine
new code which complies 100% with Jbase rules. Most of us have to work with
code that has been around for many years, twiddled by countless programmers,
and was written to the rules that existed at the time - on a Pick or Picklike
platform. This release behavior was discussed quite a bit on the Jbase tech
list, and many were shocked to learn of it.

Don't get me wrong - I love Jbase and would not willingly go back to UV. I
don't have too much free time on my hands, and I suspect that Chandru doesn't
either. I just feel, like him, that this was a windmill worth tilting at.

Regards,
Charlie Noah

Kevin Powick <nospam@nomail.com> writes:

>xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...
>
>> I should've made it clearer-it's not a new 'bug', just someone on the 
>> jbase elist who mentioned it. The way around it is an env variable which 
>> makes it work correctly.  Chandru
>
>Or incorrectly, depending on your point of view.
>
>It's amazing how someone can rant about something that has not only 
>never been a problem for them, but isn't even a problem for anyone.
>
>You have too much free time on your hands.
>
>-- 
>Kevin Powick


Charlie Noah (CWNoah2@aol.com)
0
cwnoah2
11/14/2003 12:26:42 PM
In article <20031114072642.28496.00001940@mb-m18.aol.com>, cwnoah2
@aol.com says...

> Kevin,
> 
> Does "anyone" include me? If so, please don't presume to speak for me. 

Please...  I don't.  Re-reading, I should have said that the behaviour 
isn't a problem for anyone as it can be any way one wishes.  But since 
it was acknowledged that the behaviour was made optional at the request 
of users like yourself that needed such a compatibility option, I 
thought it would be clear.

> Not everyone who ports to Jbase has the luxury of writing pristine
> new code which complies 100% with Jbase rules.

Porting implies that the code is not new.  I had no new/pristine code 
luxury and our code has been hacked and updated by countless 
programmers since the Microdata days.

-- 
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
11/14/2003 3:25:53 PM
In article <3FB441D4.7090504@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...

> > How about the reason that it doesn't make any sense what so ever to re-
> > open a file in a subroutine that was already opened in the mainline 
> > program?  That is simply sloppy coding that Pick let you get away with.
 
> Many reasons that you might do this...

You obviously have reasons that are legitimate to you and I'm sure 
others.  I've just never run into it as a problem.  Maybe I was just 
lucky.

> But that does not excuse the error. The *program* should not decide when 
> to release locks, the programmer should.

The programmer did, by allowing their file variable to go out of scope.  
the program (subroutine) ended. :-).  It can be argued either way.

> > Fix implies broken, when it never was...Just because Pick was first doesn't 
> > mean it was right, or wrong for that matter.
 
> No, based on a view on how a system should work.

No, based on YOUR view of how a system should work.

> it's just that-an error, not an improvement.

I never claimed it to be an improvement, just different.

This is like arguing about which side of the road is the correct side 
to drive on.  Is one side wrong and the other correct?  I guess it 
depends on where you are driving.  Does someone coming from one system 
find it odd to use the other?  Is this same person more likely to have 
an accident in the early days of adopting the new system?  I would say 
yes.

The great thing about jBASE is that it's the only system that lets you 
decide on which side of the road you wish to drive.

> > It's interesting that this "problem" never "bit" me when I converted
 
> To each his own. Perhaps you are a more careful and prudent programmer 
> than most.

I doubt that's the case.  More likely that being exposed to a lot of 
different programming environments, it never occurred to me to re-open 
files that were already.

> ...Just makes me 
> realize that converting to jbase (like Unidata) requires a careful 
> reading of all the semi-hidden stuff.

Sure.  I guess it's always like that.

> I don't know exactly why this gets 
> your goat so much, Kevin, because to me its mostly a theoretical 
> issue...opionions aside

It's all about opinions.. You have yours and I have mine.  What "gets 
my goat", in this case, is that you take issue with a behaviour that 
works exactly the way you want it.  Just because it may not have at one 
time seems irrelevant to me and not even worth pointing out as it does 
not affect you, nor anyone else today.  It's like saying Windows 3.1 
couldn't do "this".  Who's buying 3.1 these days?

> there is clearly a base set of functionality...jbase has made 
> decisions that were more in a vacuum than otherwise. Changes seem to 
> have been made for change's sake, rather than thought through. None of 
> this is surprising (emulation is a tough business,)

A Pick emulator was never the objective.  What would be the point of a 
100% Pick knock-off?  The idea was to take what was attractive about 
the Pick/MV data model and build a "better" system.  I can't remember 
exactly, but I *think* the original jBASE spec didn't even include AQL. 

Of course, if you're trying to make money and your best bet is to 
convert existing "Pickies" then including AQL is probably a good thing 
to do.

> I'm reacting more to the messianistic fervor of the jbase-ites

So, this is what gets your goat eh?  A bunch of people enthusiastic 
about a MV product?  Does it bring back memories?  Does it hurt that 
it's not the Pick you were a part of?  Ya, Ya, I'm poking you in the 
ribs here.  Sorry.

> their circle-the-wagons approach to any criticism, their 
> superiority in saying 'it's not Pick'

It's not a superiority issue.  It's simply a fact.  It's not Pick, yet 
you want it to be and have issues with things that are not 100% Pick-
like in implementation.  This is what I really don't understand.

> has jbase pushed the mv envelope any?

As far as making it easier to integrate with "mainstream" platforms, 
dev tools, etc.  I think they have done a better job, and often were 
the first to do so.  I only switched to jBASE because D3 on NT was 
complete junk at the time and I needed easy integration with Visual 
Basic.  Nobody else was doing a good job of it back in '96 except 
jBASE.  AFAIK, D3 still doesn't have a Java library.  How can that be?

> .. No, it's just a flawed, 
> though perfectly workable, emulation of Pick.

If not emulating Pick and its flaws 100% means that jBASE is flawed, 
then I quite happily accept your definition.

-- 
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
11/14/2003 4:29:34 PM
selected  paras commented. 10-4. chandru

Kevin Powick wrote:
> In article <3FB441D4.7090504@quest.with.a.w.net>, 
> xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...
>
>>But that does not excuse the error. The *program* should not decide when 
>>to release locks, the programmer should.
> 
> The programmer did, by allowing their file variable to go out of scope.  
> the program (subroutine) ended. :-).  It can be argued either way.

No, cannot. while the variable does indeed go out of scope, the action 
affects *variable outside the subroutine that is still in scope*. Not 
kosher. Side effect. Glad you used the formal terminology. The error 
should be *much* clearer now!

> I doubt that's the case.  More likely that being exposed to a lot of 
> different programming environments, it never occurred to me to re-open 
> files that were already.

Quite. However, this does not address the various scenarios I posted 
where you may have to do it.

> It's not a superiority issue.  It's simply a fact.  It's not Pick, yet 
> you want it to be and have issues with things that are not 100% Pick-
> like in implementation.  This is what I really don't understand.

never expected 100%. and i take no issue with improvements. issues I've 
raised (cataloging snafu, index funnies, release locks, limiting syntax, 
etc.) can be argued 1) as a backward step 2) makes it harder for 
convertors and most importantly 3) gives you not much or nothing in return.

>>has jbase pushed the mv envelope any?
> 
> As far as making it easier to integrate with "mainstream" platforms, 
> dev tools, etc.  I think they have done a better job, and often were 
> the first to do so.  I only switched to jBASE because D3 on NT was 
> complete junk at the time and I needed easy integration with Visual 
> Basic.  Nobody else was doing a good job of it back in '96 except 
> jBASE.  AFAIK, D3 still doesn't have a Java library.  How can that be?
>
good points, but i meant to the mv model. maybe we'd have more to 
counter the folks at comp.databases.theory if there'd been true 
improvements.



0
cmurthi
11/14/2003 5:16:38 PM
cmurthi wrote:
> Are we perhaps not talking about the same thing? I'll restate:
>
>   You're in a BASIC subroutine;
>   You OPEN a file to a LOCAL filevariable;
>   You then do whatever with the file; read/write etc
>   You RETURN
>
> jbase Closes the LOCAL filevariable (correct) and also Releases any
> locks that might have been previously present on the FILE (from
> overlying subs and mainline.)
>
> Can you imagine the problems this can cause? I'll just state that many
> apps I'm familiar with (and/or written) would break under this
> condition. And, since you asked, we're evaluating jbase an an
> alternative to UV, and subtleties like this are well researched
> beforehand, not after installation.

Just so you know, this exact behaviour is currently being discussed on the
U2 discussion list with a customer having just noted that UniVerse 10
behaves this way and others testing and pointing out that it was like that
at 9.4 and 9.6 so possibly has *always* been like that!

Cheers,

Ken


0
Ken
11/14/2003 7:13:16 PM
cmurthi <xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net> wrote in message news:<3FB3CD78.3090303@quest.with.a.w.net>...
> Are we perhaps not talking about the same thing? I'll restate:
> 
>   You're in a BASIC subroutine;
>   You OPEN a file to a LOCAL filevariable;
>   You then do whatever with the file; read/write etc
>   You RETURN
> 
> jbase Closes the LOCAL filevariable (correct) and also Releases any 
> locks that might have been previously present on the FILE (from 
> overlying subs and mainline.)
> 
> Can you imagine the problems this can cause? I'll just state that many 
> apps I'm familiar with (and/or written) would break under this 
> condition. And, since you asked, we're evaluating jbase an an 
> alternative to UV, and subtleties like this are well researched 
> beforehand, not after installation.
> 
> And why? Because the designer called the standard FileClose routine 
> which is used on the explict "CLOSE file" BASIC instruction and on STOP 
> of the mainline progam (where this action is correct.) The env variable 
> later added (as Luke noted, in doubletime) solved this.
> 
> Chandru Murthi
> 
There was a thread on u2-users this/last week discussing this very
behaviour in UV. IIRC (I don't pay a lot of attention to UV issues) UV
did the same thing with releasing locks when the implicit file close
was called when the subroutine was called.

hth
Colin Alfke
0
alfke
11/14/2003 7:39:37 PM
I have UV 9.6 and it behaves the Pick way, just tested it. Thanks tho', 
we'll have to be wary about UV10.... Chandru

Ken Wallis wrote:
> cmurthi wrote:
> 
>>Are we perhaps not talking about the same thing? I'll restate:
>>
>>  You're in a BASIC subroutine;
>>  You OPEN a file to a LOCAL filevariable;
>>  You then do whatever with the file; read/write etc
>>  You RETURN
>>
>>jbase Closes the LOCAL filevariable (correct) and also Releases any
>>locks that might have been previously present on the FILE (from
>>overlying subs and mainline.)
>>
>>Can you imagine the problems this can cause? I'll just state that many
>>apps I'm familiar with (and/or written) would break under this
>>condition. And, since you asked, we're evaluating jbase an an
>>alternative to UV, and subtleties like this are well researched
>>beforehand, not after installation.
> 
> 
> Just so you know, this exact behaviour is currently being discussed on the
> U2 discussion list with a customer having just noted that UniVerse 10
> behaves this way and others testing and pointing out that it was like that
> at 9.4 and 9.6 so possibly has *always* been like that!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ken
> 
> 

0
cmurthi
11/14/2003 9:13:46 PM
"Kevin Powick" <nospam@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a1eccfaa532320e989781@news21.on.aibn.com...
> In article <3FB441D4.7090504@quest.with.a.w.net>,
> xyzcmurthi@quest.with.a.w.net says...
>
> > > How about the reason that it doesn't make any sense what so ever to
re-
> > > open a file in a subroutine that was already opened in the mainline
> > > program?  That is simply sloppy coding that Pick let you get away
with.
>
> > Many reasons that you might do this...
>
> You obviously have reasons that are legitimate to you and I'm sure
> others.  I've just never run into it as a problem.  Maybe I was just
> lucky.
>
> > But that does not excuse the error. The *program* should not decide when
> > to release locks, the programmer should.
>
> The programmer did, by allowing their file variable to go out of scope.
> the program (subroutine) ended. :-).  It can be argued either way.

Not really. In this case, I stand with Chandru. I can see *why* it's
happening, but I don't think you can seriously argue that it *should* happen
that way. Locks should be process-dependent, and certainly not controlled at
the subroutine level.

As a simple example of why it shouldn't work this way, take the case of a
programmer who calls a third-party subroutine. The subroutine isn't a part
of his own application, so he doesn't have the option of sharing the file
variable in a named common block. The s/r opens a file, reads one item and
then returns, blowing away any and all locks that are held on that file.
It's easy to see how the developers might make that decision, but it's
impossible to call it anything but _wrong_.

> > > Fix implies broken, when it never was...Just because Pick was first
doesn't
> > > mean it was right, or wrong for that matter.
>
> > No, based on a view on how a system should work.
>
> No, based on YOUR view of how a system should work.
>
> > it's just that-an error, not an improvement.
>
> I never claimed it to be an improvement, just different.
>
> This is like arguing about which side of the road is the correct side
> to drive on.  Is one side wrong and the other correct?  I guess it
> depends on where you are driving.  Does someone coming from one system
> find it odd to use the other?  Is this same person more likely to have
> an accident in the early days of adopting the new system?  I would say
> yes.
>
> The great thing about jBASE is that it's the only system that lets you
> decide on which side of the road you wish to drive.

Agreed, jBASE is terrific. But it's not perfect. I think you're getting a
little overzealous. OTOH, I also think Chandru has been too quick to judge
every little difference in jBASE as a failure, but in this I'd have to say
he has good reason for complaint.

> > > It's interesting that this "problem" never "bit" me when I converted
>
> > To each his own. Perhaps you are a more careful and prudent programmer
> > than most.
>
> I doubt that's the case.  More likely that being exposed to a lot of
> different programming environments, it never occurred to me to re-open
> files that were already.

Nor do I, given the option. Nor do I hold locks open needlessly. But I've
seen it done a thousand times, and I've been forced to do it myself a fair
few times, because I had to fit with an existing app.

The telling point is that this was reported as a bug to jBASE some years
back, and they fixed it for us (I was consulting to CSC Health at the time).
They didn't quibble about it, because they knew it was a bug. The kind of
bug that could keep people from buying their product. A real showstopper.
I'm disappointed to learn that it has reappeared.

> > ...Just makes me
> > realize that converting to jbase (like Unidata) requires a careful
> > reading of all the semi-hidden stuff.
>
> Sure.  I guess it's always like that.

I'd have thought that should be obvious to anyone.

> > I don't know exactly why this gets
> > your goat so much, Kevin, because to me its mostly a theoretical
> > issue...opionions aside
>
> It's all about opinions.. You have yours and I have mine.  What "gets
> my goat", in this case, is that you take issue with a behaviour that
> works exactly the way you want it.  Just because it may not have at one
> time seems irrelevant to me and not even worth pointing out as it does
> not affect you, nor anyone else today.  It's like saying Windows 3.1
> couldn't do "this".  Who's buying 3.1 these days?
>
> > there is clearly a base set of functionality...jbase has made
> > decisions that were more in a vacuum than otherwise. Changes seem to
> > have been made for change's sake, rather than thought through. None of
> > this is surprising (emulation is a tough business,)
>
> A Pick emulator was never the objective.  What would be the point of a
> 100% Pick knock-off?  The idea was to take what was attractive about
> the Pick/MV data model and build a "better" system.  I can't remember
> exactly, but I *think* the original jBASE spec didn't even include AQL.
>
> Of course, if you're trying to make money and your best bet is to
> convert existing "Pickies" then including AQL is probably a good thing
> to do.
>
> > I'm reacting more to the messianistic fervor of the jbase-ites
>
> So, this is what gets your goat eh?  A bunch of people enthusiastic
> about a MV product?  Does it bring back memories?  Does it hurt that
> it's not the Pick you were a part of?  Ya, Ya, I'm poking you in the
> ribs here.  Sorry.
>
> > their circle-the-wagons approach to any criticism, their
> > superiority in saying 'it's not Pick'
>
> It's not a superiority issue.  It's simply a fact.  It's not Pick, yet
> you want it to be and have issues with things that are not 100% Pick-
> like in implementation.  This is what I really don't understand.

Nothing is "Pick" any more. There's no such thing, unless you're running an
old version.

It seems Chandru is unhappy to see jBASE being lauded above other flavours
of the MVDB model. Probably he'd be less unhappy if he had tested jBASE and
found it to be totally compatible with older Pick versions, but at the same
time somehow superior. I actually understand the viewpoint, but I'm probably
more willing to accept the odd incompatibility here and there, and more
awake to the importance of integration with the underlying OS. Moreover,
having worked with D3, Unidata and Universe, I'm not at all keen to go that
way. jBASE is my pick for the best MVDB in the market. Chandru obviously
sees things differently.

> > has jbase pushed the mv envelope any?
>
> As far as making it easier to integrate with "mainstream" platforms,
> dev tools, etc.  I think they have done a better job, and often were
> the first to do so.  I only switched to jBASE because D3 on NT was
> complete junk at the time and I needed easy integration with Visual
> Basic.  Nobody else was doing a good job of it back in '96 except
> jBASE.  AFAIK, D3 still doesn't have a Java library.  How can that be?

Damned straight. And on *nix, the integration is even better, IMO. Operating
out of the D3 shell to work with Winblows or *nix is like trying to thread a
needle in thick, woollen gloves. jBASE is a very liberating experience.

> > .. No, it's just a flawed,
> > though perfectly workable, emulation of Pick.
>
> If not emulating Pick and its flaws 100% means that jBASE is flawed,
> then I quite happily accept your definition.

And it's not half as flawed as D3/NT, in my view. That's an implementation
that has never been finished, and probably never will be.


Just my 2c worth.

Luke


0
Luke
11/16/2003 12:13:56 AM
Reply:

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