f



Re: Out of Area Calls #17

bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) writes:

> pointed out that the law made *no* such provision for delay on an
> -internally-maintained- list, and required that they update my
> _customer_record_ with a note that 'customer has ordered us -never- to
> make marketing calls to him', and the date/time.  Three days later,
> somebody "didn't read" the notes, and called me.  I promptly demanded
> a supervisor, had them read the account 'notes', and asked if they
> wanted to pay the statutory $500 minimum, or if I needed to go to
> court, in which case I would allege 'knowing and wilful' violation,

This is totally lovely. I'm going to use that trick from now on. *

* PV   something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
       like corkscrews.

0
pv
9/27/2004 7:14:57 PM
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Re: FTC Do-Not-Call Registry, was Out of Area Calls
>> Could you point to the section of the law or FTC regulations that >> provides the exemptions? Because there is no such exemption, and >> you're just wrong. > People like you, who don't even bother to do research or CHECK before > they call someone wrong never cease to amaze me. > Next time, go to google.com and CHECK before you call someone a liar. Sigh. You saw it on the Internet, so it must be true, huh? > "There are some exemptions, for example, as you might expect, > telephone companies can still call you to solicit you and so can banks > and credit card companies," Cohen said. Also still allowed to call > are: charities, insurance companies and politicians." In the page that Google found with that quote, "Cohen" was some self-appointed expert quoted on a local TV show in Chicago a year ago. I don't think he counts either as a law or as an FTC regulation. On the other hand, if you visit the FTC's www.donotcall.gov web site, and visit their FAQ page, you can find the actual exception list at https://www.donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQConsumers.aspx#Exceptions You will note it does not contain telephone companies, banks, credit card companies, or insurance companies, unless they have an existing business relationship with you and you haven't told them to stop. Charities and politicians are indeed exempt, but two out of six is a pretty poor score for an alleged ...

Re: Magic Telemarketer Bullets, was Re: Out of Area Calls
I wrote a short while ago: >> Said it early on, will say it again: The intelligent and effective way >> to handle telemarketing would have been legislation requiring that any >> and all telemarketing calls be made using Caller ID with a distinctive >> and national standardized Area Code, e.g. 311 or something similar, so >> that recipients who didn't want to receive such calls could easily >> filter and reject them. >> Would have been cheap and easy to implement (for callers and >> recipients); and John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> -- whose postings to this group I regularly read, and whose technical knowledge in these areas I respect -- replied: > Well, let's see. and I'm responding to his arguments below. > Cost to telcos to implement the overlay area code in your plan, > several billion dollars. (Every tandem switch in the country would > have to be upgraded, since there's no such thing as a national overlay > now.) Cost of network upgrades in the current system, zero, since > none are needed. My understanding (glad to be corrected if I'm wrong) is that Caller ID can be easily "faked" purely locally (i.e., by the caller, at the caller's location), and that doing this requires only modest equipment and no telco involvement -- certainly not any nationwide equipment changes (and that this sort ...

Re: FTC Do-Not-Call Registry, was Out of Area Calls #2
John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote in message news:telecom23.444.15@telecom-digest.org: >> THINK before you start typing! You have to know WHO they are before >> you can sue someone! > Well, duh. The people who sue under the same law for junk faxes have > gotten pretty good at teasing out the junkers' identities. Well said. The thing that makes it possible to punish junk faxing, junk calling, and spam is that invariably, the sender of the message wants to collect money from the public, and they have to identify themselves well enough for money to reach them. ...

Re: [telecom] Re: TELECOM Re: Analog cell phone equipment
In <fdhodd$gni$1@reader1.panix.com> "Herb Oxley" <nospam4me@trashymail.com> writes: >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: >[in part] >> Later on more modern phones were placed in Amtrak and commuter >> trains. Metro North had a big push to have a phone on every train >> which was completed just before personal cell phones became >> widespread. The original Metroliner (and prior 1948 train phones) >> used real phone booths, later units had a phone but no booth, so >> everyone could hear and be disturbed by your call, just like today. >So how much did a phone call cost on the Metroliners? In addition to the coin phone rate (based on calling from Philadelphia, there was a hefty surcharge ($1.50???). But... the phones could call out to "800" (not "1-800") numbers, and there was no surcharge on those. I called out to the Polaroid customer service folk (remember that company?) and had a nice long chat... ***** Moderator's Note ***** By a curious coindidence, I _do_ remember Polaroid: my aunt worked there for her entire career. It's a classic example, in the same way as Western Union, travel agencies, or passenger lines, of the way nobody ever sees change coming when it's _their_ ox that's about to be gored. C'est la vie. Bill Horne Temporary Moderator ...

Re: Magic Telemarketer Bullets, was Re: Out of Area Calls #5
AES/newspost <siegman@stanford.edu> writes: > Not so -- cost to recipients of present system comes in > having to get your number (or multiple numbers) on the list; > having to remember to change or add numbers every time > you change your service; and difficulties in confirming that > you've even been added (is there any formal way to confirm > that your number has been added?) All of these things are free; they can be done via a toll-free call, or by using the website. And yes, you can verify that a listing exists. > to maintain the bureaucracy to manage the system in > perpetuity (who really does this job, by the way?). Would AT&T. It's not exactly a deep dark secret. > you want to bet the system is really well run? Or really > pays its own way? It sure seems to be well run. The only telemarketing calls I get these days are from people NOT using it. I report all of these on the website. * * PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something like corkscrews. ...

Re: Magic Telemarketer Bullets, was Re: Out of Area Calls #2
John Levine wrote: > Cost to telcos to implement the overlay area code in your plan, > several billion dollars. (Every tandem switch in the country would > have to be upgraded, since there's no such thing as a national overlay > now.) Cost of network upgrades in the current system, zero, since > none are needed. There are a number of incoming overlays, so making such numbers dialable would be close to de minimus. All that would be needed to make the outgoing part work would be to frame the 311 number into the CLID, a burden which might be foisted onto the telescum themselves. > Service cost to users who'd have to buy CLID service to hide from > telemarketers but don't want CLID otherwise, three bucks a month or so > times something like 30 million people who don't have CLID now, about > a billion dollars a year. Monthly cost of current system, zero since > no special service is required. Many, if not all, telcos that offer CLID will throw in anonymous call reject for free to subscribers to CLID. The FCC could simply mandate that this option be universal, much as they forced the IXCs to transport CLID for free several years ago. Or it could be bundled on to the charge for a 311 line, although that would create some settlement issues. > Hardware cost to phone users who'd all have to buy special CLID boxes > that recognize the magic area code and don't ring, say $20 each times > a...

Re: Magic Telemarketer Bullets, was Re: Out of Area Calls #3
John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote in message news:<telecom23.449.8@telecom-digest.org>: >> Said it early on, will say it again: The intelligent and effective way >> to handle telemarketing would have been legislation requiring that any >> and all telemarketing calls be made using Caller ID with a distinctive >> and national standardized Area Code, e.g. 311 or something similar, so >> that recipients who didn't want to receive such calls could easily >> filter and reject them. >> Would have been cheap and easy to implement (for callers and >> recipients); > Well, let's see. > Cost to telcos to implement the overlay area code in your plan, > several billion dollars. (Every tandem switch in the country would > have to be upgraded, since there's no such thing as a national overlay > now.) Cost of network upgrades in the current system, zero, since > none are needed. > Service cost to users who'd have to buy CLID service to hide from > telemarketers but don't want CLID otherwise, three bucks a month or so > times something like 30 million people who don't have CLID now, about > a billion dollars a year. Monthly cost of current system, zero since > no special service is required. > Hardware cost to phone users who'd all have to buy special CLID boxes > that recognize the magic area code and don't ring, say $20 eac...

Re: Magic Telemarketer Bullets, was Re: Out of Area Calls #4
AES/newspost wrote: > I wrote a short while ago: >>> Said it early on, will say it again: The intelligent and effective way >>> to handle telemarketing would have been legislation requiring that any >>> and all telemarketing calls be made using Caller ID with a distinctive >>> and national standardized Area Code, e.g. 311 or something similar, so >>> that recipients who didn't want to receive such calls could easily >>> filter and reject them. >>> Would have been cheap and easy to implement (for callers and >>> recipients); > and John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> -- whose postings to this > group I regularly read, and whose technical knowledge in these > areas I respect -- replied: >> Well, let's see. > and I'm responding to his arguments below. [ SNIP ] > Anyone else want to weigh in on this? As a non-scientific sample of one (well, maybe two) I have two lines into my house. One is the residence (published) number and the other is an "office at home" number (non-pub). Both have caller ID and both have answering machines (either attached or built-in to the phones.) I put both numbers on the national DNC list last year. Observations: - There seem to be considerably fewer telemarketer calls since then. If it's important, and the call comes through as "anonymous," whoe...

Re: Magic Telemarketer Bullets, was Re: Out of Area Calls #6
>> Cost to telcos to implement the overlay area code in your plan, >> several billion dollars. > There are a number of incoming overlays, so making such numbers > dialable would be close to de minimus. Huh? Do you mean 456 or something else? >> Service cost to users who'd have to buy CLID service to hide from >> telemarketers but don't want CLID otherwise, three bucks a month ... > Many, if not all, telcos that offer CLID will throw in anonymous call > reject for free to subscribers to CLID. That's nice, but 311 calls would be different from CLID blocked calls so ACR wouldn't help. If you want a 311 reject, that's a switch upgrade. >> Cost to telcos to implement the overlay area code in your plan, >> several billion dollars. ... > My understanding (glad to be corrected if I'm wrong) is that > Caller ID can be easily "faked" purely locally (i.e., by the > caller, at the caller's location), and that doing this requires > only modest equipment and no telco involvement -- Only if the switch is misprogrammed. If a customer is on an ISDN line, he can provide CLID, but the CO switch is supposed to allow only numbers assigned to that line, typically a block of DID numbers assigned to a PBX. It's a security bug to permit numbers not assigned just like spammers fake other people's e-mail addresses. You could certainly adjust...

Re: [telecom] Radio Shark and Laff-At-It (was Calling Features and LATAs) [Telecom]
> It was most definitely BURstein-Applebee, no 'burn', as I > remember being corrected when I mispronounced the name to > one of their sales people on the phone once. 'No burn' was > the expression he used. Burstein-Applebee, in Kansas City, Mo., had a somewhat interesting catalog. Does anyone remember Olsen (or maybe it was Olsen) Electronics, somewhere in Ohio, I believe. Wes Leatherock wleathus@yahoo.com wesrock@aol.com "Wes Leatherock" <wleathus@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:827803.88231.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com... > >> It was most definitely BURstein-Applebee, no 'burn', as I >> remember being corrected when I mispronounced the name to >> one of their sales people on the phone once. 'No burn' was >> the expression he used. > > Burstein-Applebee, in Kansas City, Mo., had a somewhat > interesting catalog. > > Does anyone remember Olsen (or maybe it was Olsen) > Electronics, somewhere in Ohio, I believe. > > > Wes Leatherock > wleathus@yahoo.com > wesrock@aol.com We certainly had an Olsens in Milwaukee, WI. back in the late '50s or early '60s. I remember (vaguely) buying a lot of parts for home-brew ham radio projects. Probably prior to 1962 because I wasn't 16 yet and couldn't drive there. - - Herb Stein Herb@herbstein.com > We certainly had an O...

[TELECOM] Re: TELECOM Re: Wireless and 911.
-------------------------------1188482645 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 29 Aug 2007 14:50:20 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes: > So I assume all land line phones now support 911. Some places took a > while to go over to it. It's challenging because phoneco exchange > boundaries often don't match public service boundaries. Further, > local fire/police/resuce each may have their own service boundaries. > (In my town the police is very local but the fire is regional.) There are many smaller places that have not adopted 911. Several elections in recent months have rejected the additional fees required to provide 911 service and a PSAP despite the urgings of emergency responders especially for identification of the location of cell calls. These are in places that do not have 911 for land lines, either. >> Soon all cell phones must support E911. > But will the 911 centers be able to handle that? That is, my cell > phone will send out my location, but will the dispatch center be able > to receive it and process it properly? I suspect many can't. As noted above, there are places without a 911 center. Wes Leatherock _wock@aol.com_ (mailto:wock@aol.com) wleathus@yahoo.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/mem...

Re: Out of Area Calls
gladyretired wrote: > I get calls that are "out of area" with no phone number shown These actually do mean that EVEN THE PHONE COMPANY (at your end of the connection) has no idea about the originating phone number. Patrick wrote: > *60 service (block last caller) or block unidentified callers? The > first of these two (*60 block last caller) is probably better No. *60 will be totally ineffective against "out of area" calls. It works only for calls where either the number or "BLOCKED/PRIVATE" are shown. Nor will "anonymous call rejection" work, since these are not considered anonymous calls. However, the service which prompts the caller for his number whenever the call is EITHER blocked OR out of area, called by various names such as "Call Manager" or "Call Intercept" depending on the company. /john ...

[Telecom] Re: Re:
Folks, It just seems to me that we have too many replies and not enough in the way of new topics. That is clearly evidenced by the number of 'Re: *****' in the Subject lines. Truthfully, I rarely read anything headed be 'Re: ' any more because usually it is just comments that beat dead horse to death. We've got a lot of people in the industry that could provide more information that is new and fresh [and enlighteningly useful]. They should have somethign interesting from time to time. Regards, Fred ...

Re: Out of Area Calls #10
In article <telecom23.443.5@telecom-digest.org>, Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote: >>> So you think. This is nothing more than coincidence. The biggest >>> telemarketers (such as long distance phone companies) are EXEMPT from >>> these lists. >> Could you point to the section of the law or FTC regulations that >> provides the exemptions? Because there is no such exemption, and >> you're just wrong. > People like you, who don't even bother to do research or CHECK before > they call someone wrong never cease to amaze me. > Next time, go to google.com and CHECK before you call someone a liar. OK. I _did_ go check. You really should take you own advice, before posting. Because, you see, you *are* a liar. (note: your assertation _was_ correct at one time, but is false-to-fact, in today's world.) The presently-implemented DNC list is a _joint_ operation of the FTC and the FCC. The list of activities proscribed by each agency is _not_ identical. If *either* agency proscribes a kind of call, you cannot legally make that call. Here is the status of telemarketing calls by telephone companies: Exempt under FTC rules but included under FCC rules: * Long-distance phone companies are exempt under FTC rules but FCC rules will not exempt these calls Good write-up at: <http://consumer.net/donotca...

Re: Out of Area Calls #4
Pat writes: > Plugged into any phone line, they sat there quietly until there was > the slightest hint of an incoming call (change in voltage, etc) then > they immediatly pounced, picked up the phone line and announced to the > caller, 'please enter your privcode number' (pronounced 'Pr-eye-ve > Code'). Privcode numbers were three digits in length. If the caller > punched in the correct number, his call was passed along, the Privcode > machine would make a warble sound to tell you to answer your phone. One of the joys of running an Asterisk PBX at home is that I can effectively do the same thing with calls that come in on the POTS line. Callers are prompted to either dial 6001 or 6002 depending on which one of two desk phone they are trying to reach. Predictive dialers fail this Turing test and get unceremoniously dropped after failing to dial a number in the alloted 60 seconds. I did have a bit of apprehension of leaving the two desk phone's extension numbers on the greeting msg. After all it would be an even better telemarketer block if I kept the extensions a secret from them. It turns out that it wasn't a problem and no phone-spammer has bothered to jump through that hoop yet. For the curious, I use a Sipura-3000 ATA to digitize and grab the DTMF from the POTS line and send the vitals to Asterisk running on an Openbsd system. The two desk phones are Grandstream Budgetone-101 VOIP/SIP phones. N...

Re: Out of Area Calls #3
On 21 Sep 2004 13:32:33 -0700, gladyretired@yahoo.com wrote: > I know I am dealing with computers when this happens; My question > is -- is there a way to block these from ever getting to the phone > unless the caller IDs themselves? > MY phone Co. (Comcast) is no help. I know the technology is there to > do this, but, for some reason, my company will not get involved (their > excuses are too much bull to show here). Since your phone company is Comcast I couldn't say for certain whether they offer this service, but AFAIK most of the ILECs offer a call screening service that is in addition to caller ID. When a call comes in your number is answered and you get an announcement something on the order of "if you are a solicitor please hang up and put this number on your do not call list. Other callers please press 1 to complete this call." I've called other numbers where my number was not presented and it made me enter my number before it would process the call. ...

Re: Out of Area Calls #16
John Levine wrote: > I get a few out of area calls, none from telemarketers, but I haven't > kept track of where they're from. Calls from outside North America > mostly show up as out of area. It should be noted there are two CLID codes involved here, one for calling number restricted and one for calling number not available. Overseas calls tend to be in the latter category. Some CLID boxes will present them differently. Oddly, I got a call from Germany a few years ago that presented the whole number, in violation of German privacy law. I think I was behind an ISDN connected PBX, so it may not have been set up to honor the privacy bit, or it may have been presenting ANI. Both I and the caller found it rather amusing. ...

Re: Out of Area Calls #12
In article <telecom23.445.13@telecom-digest.org>, jmayson@nyx.net wrote: >> "There are some exemptions, for example, as you might expect, >> telephone companies can still call you to solicit you and so can banks >> and credit card companies," Cohen said. Also still allowed to call >> are: charities, insurance companies and politicians." > What does the law say about when you ask a charity to stop calling and > they refuse? The Texas Paralyzed Veterans keeps calling asking for > donations. I have called their office, spoken to a supervisor, and > explcitly asked that my number be removed from their call list. They > always promise, but three or four times a week I continue to receive > calls from them. Said it early on, will say it again: The intelligent and effective way to handle telemarketing would have been legislation requiring that any and all telemarketing calls be made using Caller ID with a distinctive and national standardized Area Code, e.g. 311 or something similar, so that recipients who didn't want to receive such calls could easily filter and reject them. Would have been cheap and easy to implement (for callers and recipients); no DNC lists to be endlessly maintained and updated, more or less self-enforcing (at least as easily as DNC lists); and no First Amendment concerns (callers are free to call anyone; you're free not to answer). Only one insolubl...

Re: Out of Area Calls #9
> "There are some exemptions, for example, as you might expect, > telephone companies can still call you to solicit you and so can banks > and credit card companies," Cohen said. Also still allowed to call > are: charities, insurance companies and politicians." What does the law say about when you ask a charity to stop calling and they refuse? The Texas Paralyzed Veterans keeps calling asking for donations. I have called their office, spoken to a supervisor, and explcitly asked that my number be removed from their call list. They always promise, but three or four times a week I continue to receive calls from them. I had the campaign of a major party presidential candidate (the one I support over the other) continue to call asking for a $75 donation. I kindly asked they remove me but I kept getting calls. I finally told them, "If you call me one more time I will donate $75 to your opponent and vote for him in November." The calls immediately stopped. I would've done it too. John Mayson <jmayson@nyx.net> Austin, Texas, USA ...

Re: Out of Area Calls #2
> This is a very frustrating problem. I am on both the federal and my > state do-not-call lists. These, for the most part, have worked great, > cutting my unwanted telemarketing calls down by 90+%. So you think. This is nothing more than coincidence. The biggest telemarketers (such as long distance phone companies) are EXEMPT from these lists. This means many telemarketers can still call you if you are on these lists. This is why the do not call list is such a huge ridiculous joke. The other problem is, because the few telemarketers that are not exempt do not want to pay the high costs of determining how to not call people on these lists, they take the phone number of every person that does business with their companies, every time you buy something from a store, at check out they ask your phone number, because if you do business with a company (impossible to avoid) then that company is ALSO exempt from the do not call lists! And many people who do not want to give out their phone number, just make up a fake one, and many times across the country, YOURS is the one they are going to make up at random, and YOU will be getting that person's telemarketing calls. > However, once in a while, I get calls that are "out of area" with no > phone number shown. Sometimes, I will get these every 20 minitues and > it will last all day! The law changed recently making it illegal for telemarketers to hide their numbers fro...

Re: Out of Area Calls #13
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 07:59:52 +0000, bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote: > Or people in _very_ rural areas, serviced by _old_ switching gear that > doesn't understand SS7, and *doesn't* pass caller information out to > the outside world. There _is_ a fair amount of such gear still in > service, even in the U.S. Non-SS7-capable gear is getting less and less common in rural areas, largely because number pooling, wireless LNP, and CALEA compliance issues are leading to a lot of older and often EOL'd switch gear (older DMS-10s and DCOs, Harris 20/20s, Mitel GX-5000s, etc.) being thrown out and replaced with more modern equipment, in some cases equipment that's even more modern than the typical Baby Bell gear. In many cases the problem isn't so much that a rural ILEC's *switch* can't do SS7, but more often that the rural ILEC's *trunking* to at least some of the rest of the world isn't SS7-capable for whatever reason. (For instance, I know of one case with an ILEC in northwest Georgia where caller ID went out on local calls both within the ILEC's tiny service area and to adjacent BellSouth service areas but not on LD calls; that was because the ILEC in question hadn't gone equal access[!!!] and was still using Fg.C trunks to AT&T. This particular ILEC went EA in 2001 or so and so switched to Fg.D trunks for LD, and caller ID started going out on LD calls at that time.) On 22 ...

Re: Out of Area Calls #22
> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: However, teleco is required as a common > carrier to provide service to every qualified applicant. 'Qualified > applicant' is defined under the tariff as any person or organization > who has demonstrated an ability and willingness to pay for the service. > What do you want telco to do, ask you upon your application for > service what you intend to talk about on the phone? Then if you state > that you intend to sell things, refuse to give you the service? PAT] If they pass a law making telemarketing illegal, of course they must: Simply change the tariff definition of 'qualified applicant" from those who have demonstrated an ability to pay to those who can pay and will not use the service for illegal purposes. And yes, have the person who takes the new service orders ask if they intend to use the line for telemarketing, and deny service if they answer "yes". Better yet, make them sign an acceptable use policy as ISP's do. ...

Re: call execute #17
On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:45:06 -0400, Jeff <zhujp98@GMAIL.COM> wrote: >316 data _null_; > >317 length command $500; > >318 set definition; > >319 startdate=mdy(input(substr(start,6, 2),2.), 1, input(substr(start,1, >4),4.)); > >320 enddate=mdy(input(substr(end,6, 2),2.), 1, input(substr(end,1, 4),4.)); > >321 numMo=intck('mon',startdate, enddate); > >322 extentedend=cats( >year(intnx('month',enddate,3)),'/',month(intnx('month',enddate,3))); > >323 extend=intnx('month',enddate,3); > >324 eend=p...

Re: Out of Area Calls #7
>> So you think. This is nothing more than coincidence. The biggest >> telemarketers (such as long distance phone companies) are EXEMPT from >> these lists. > Could you point to the section of the law or FTC regulations that > provides the exemptions? Because there is no such exemption, and > you're just wrong. People like you, who don't even bother to do research or CHECK before they call someone wrong never cease to amaze me. Next time, go to google.com and CHECK before you call someone a liar. "There are some exemptions, for example, as you might expect, telephone companies can still call you to solicit you and so can banks and credit card companies," Cohen said. Also still allowed to call are: charities, insurance companies and politicians." Then, keep in mind MOST telemarketers don't abide by laws or do not call lists ANYWAY! By keeping their number from showing on caller ID (which is also against the law now, but they continue to do) or using a fake number like 111-111-1111 (which I have seen many times myself) you don't know what company to report for violating Federal Law anyway. > If you are getting calls from companies with which you are not > currently doing business (or with whom you are doing business and > have told them to stop), you can sue them under the TCPA. THINK before you start typing! You have to know WHO they are before you can sue someone! AS...

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