Hi, before I forget:

Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and 
a Happy New Year!

Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any 
of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, 
Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, 
Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, 
Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, 
people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.

[-Rick-]

Rick

[snip]
> , IIR filter designers,
:
:
> [-Rick-]
[snip]

Heh... heh... well OK we'll accept your best Season's Greetings, but don't
push your luck.

IIR filters are the only "natural" filters known to man!

Output[today] = 1 - Happy Holidays [yesterday]

--
Peter
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL

Best wishes for Xtmas and New Year, for all the people in comp.dsp!!!

JaaC

r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net>...
> Hi, before I forget:
> 
> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and 
> a Happy New Year!
> 
> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any 
> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, 
> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, 
> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, 
> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, 
> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
> 
> [-Rick-]

Happy Christmas Rick

Phil

"Rick Lyons" <r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org> wrote in message
news:3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net...
>
> Hi, before I forget:
>
> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and
> a Happy New Year!
>
> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any
> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims,
> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics,
> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats,
> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists,
> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
>
> [-Rick-]
>

Thanks Rick! Same to you (and, for that matter, to the rest of  you
comp.dsp'ers).

> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any
> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims,
> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics,
> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats,
> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists,
> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.

You forgot
pseudo-libertarian-but-sorta-bleeding-heart-liberal-right-handed-agnostic-ye
t-probably-going-to-hell-anyways.
I feel left out.

Rick Armstrong
(reply address is bogus; please reply to group)

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:18:10 -0000, "Phil Newman"
<nospamplease@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Happy Christmas Rick
>
>Phil

And Merry New Year to you Phil.  ;-)

[-Rick-]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:18:36 GMT, "Rick Armstrong" <careful@times.com>
wrote:

>Thanks Rick! Same to you (and, for that matter, to the rest of  you
>comp.dsp'ers).
>
>> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any
>> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims,
>> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics,
>> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats,
>> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists,
>> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
>
>You forgot
>pseudo-libertarian-but-sorta-bleeding-heart-liberal-right-handed-agnostic-ye
>t-probably-going-to-hell-anyways.
>I feel left out.
>
>Rick Armstrong

Ha ha.  Just as long as you didn't vote for 
Al Gore.    ;-)

See Ya',
[-Rick-]

r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net>...
> Hi, before I forget:
> 
> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and 
> a Happy New Year!
> 
> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any 
> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, 
> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, 
> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, 
> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, 
> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
> 
> [-Rick-]

Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 

  God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!

Rune

"Rick Lyons" <r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org> wrote in message
news:3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net...
>
> Hi, before I forget:
>
> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and
> a Happy New Year!

You too Rick and ALL!

Fred

On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
wrote:

>r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net>...
>> Hi, before I forget:
>> 
>> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and 
>> a Happy New Year!
>> 
>> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any 
>> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, 
>> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, 
>> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, 
>> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, 
>> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
>> 
>> [-Rick-]
>
>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
>
>  God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
>
>Rune

Ah ha, neat.

Rune, what does it mean?

[-Rick-]

Rick Lyons wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> wrote:

>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
>>
>> God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
>>
>>Rune
> 
> 
> Ah ha, neat.
> 
> Rune, what does it mean?

Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er...  salmon.

-- 
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring
production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --FZ

r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe447ec.91151937@news.west.earthlink.net>...
> On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> wrote:
> 
> >r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net>...
> >> Hi, before I forget:
> >> 
> >> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and 
> >> a Happy New Year!
> >> 
> >> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any 
> >> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, 
> >> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, 
> >> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, 
> >> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, 
> >> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
> >> 
> >> [-Rick-]
> >
> >Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
> >
> >  God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
> >
> >Rune
> 
> Ah ha, neat.
> 
> Rune, what does it mean?
> 
> [-Rick-]

The literal translation is "good yule and good new 
year for every body". When Christianity was introduced in 
Scandinavia some thousand years ago, the Christian priests 
did what they apparently did everywhere: They "stole" the 
native fiests and holidays and said "we do not celebrate in 
honour of Odin and Thor, but in honour of the Christian God, 
Jesus and Holy Spirit", and let the fiest go on almost as before, 
at the same holy places, at the same time of year, but perhaps 
in a different way and under a different name. I don't know 
if the Celts or Saxons of Britain had a mid winter fiest 
(they probably did) but the English name "Christmas" refers 
to a "Mass in the honour of Christ". 

Now, the norsemen had their main religious fiest, the "Jol",
when the winter was at its darkest. All the main worshiping 
in honour of Odin, Thor, and the lot was done at that time 
during the "Jol blot", "blot" meaning (I am sure you can see the 
similarity between the words) something like "worship by blood
at the time of yule". The "blot" involved blood sacrifices of 
animals and possibly humans. As it turned out, the kings and 
priests who introduced Christianity decided it would be a bad 
political move to mess too much with the "Jol" fiest, so they 
were content with introducing the Christian legends and establish 
a Christian tradition in the celebration, and let the ancient 
name of the fiest live on.

Apart from giving a brutal piece of history a nice touch (I'm 
not all that sympathetic with crusaders and I like the fact 
that the "crusading" priests did not get their ways in absolutely 
everything) it gives people with a, let's say, relaxed attitude 
to Christianity an excuse to take part in the celebration. And 
since the ancient norse religion is extinct, it's completely PC 
to express the wish of a happy holliday without finding yourself 
in various religious and ethnical mine fields. 

God Jul!

Rune

"Eric C. Weaver" <weav@sigma.net> wrote in message news:<3fe484be@news.announcetech.com>...
> Rick Lyons wrote:
> > On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> > wrote:
>  
> >>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
> >>
> >> God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
> >>
> >>Rune
> > 
> > 
> > Ah ha, neat.
> > 
> > Rune, what does it mean?
> 
> Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er...  salmon.

Almost correct. "alle sammen" means "everybody". The fish "salmon"
is called "laks" in Norwegian. I think "laks" or something very similar 
is used in certain English names for fish dishes?

Rune

Eric C. Weaver wrote:

> Rick Lyons wrote:
> 
>> On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
>> wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian:
>>> God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
>>>
>>> Rune
>>
>>
>>
>> Ah ha, neat.
>>
>> Rune, what does it mean?
> 
> 
> Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er...  salmon.

Extrapolating from Yiddish: alle sammen -> all things.

Happy holidays, everyone. Tonight I lit the second candle. It'll be New 
Years in Berkeley again.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

On 20 Dec 2003 12:23:42 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
wrote:

  (all snipped)
>
>God Jul!
>
>Rune

Hi Rune,
  thanks for the *very* interesting post.

[-Rick-]

Rune Allnor wrote:

> "Eric C. Weaver" <weav@sigma.net> wrote in message news:<3fe484be@news.announcetech.com>...
> 
>>Rick Lyons wrote:
>>
>>>On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
>>>wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
>>>>
>>>>God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
>>>>
>>>>Rune
>>>
>>>
>>>Ah ha, neat.
>>>
>>>Rune, what does it mean?
>>
>>Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er...  salmon.
> 
> 
> Almost correct. "alle sammen" means "everybody". The fish "salmon"
> is called "laks" in Norwegian. I think "laks" or something very similar 
> is used in certain English names for fish dishes?
> 
> Rune

"Lachs" in other Germanic language. "Lox" is smoked salmon in American
English. It comes from Eastern Europe where, before refrigeration, lox
and gravlax were all the salmon that people in the interior knew.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe4d2c7$0$4751$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> Rune Allnor wrote:
> 
> > "Eric C. Weaver" <weav@sigma.net> wrote in message news:<3fe484be@news.announcetech.com>...
> > 
> >>Rick Lyons wrote:
> >>
> >>>On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> >>>wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
> >>>>
> >>>>God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
> >>>>
> >>>>Rune
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Ah ha, neat.
> >>>
> >>>Rune, what does it mean?
> >>
> >>Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er...  salmon.
> > 
> > 
> > Almost correct. "alle sammen" means "everybody". The fish "salmon"
> > is called "laks" in Norwegian. I think "laks" or something very similar 
> > is used in certain English names for fish dishes?
> > 
> > Rune
> 
> "Lachs" in other Germanic language. "Lox" is smoked salmon in American
> English. It comes from Eastern Europe where, before refrigeration, lox
> and gravlax were all the salmon that people in the interior knew.

In that case, the words probably come from the Scandinavian languages, 
although not necessarily Norwegian. The Swedes historically had far 
stronger influence to the east, and the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish
languages differ only in cosmetic details. The name "gravlaks" is a 
concatenation made from the words "� grave" (literally "to dig", could
be stretched to include "to bury") and "laks" (salmon). According to 
folklore (I don't know if this is the true explanation, but it could 
very well be) salmon was preserved by storing the raw fish in a container, 
only sprinkeled with sugar and salt, before being put away in storage for 
weeks or months. This causes a certain maturing/cooking process to take 
place in the fish meat (not entirely dissimilar to the Italian 
carpaccio(?), although that one cooks in minutes). According to legend, 
the "storage" originally was a hole in the ground where the container 
was buried. Thus the name "gravlaks", "buried salmon".

Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". 
In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without 
sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to 
smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires 
somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
   
Rune

Rune Allnor wrote:

   ...


> Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". 
> In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without 
> sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to 
> smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires 
> somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
>    
> Rune

Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and
long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> Rune Allnor wrote:
> 
>    ...
> 
> 
> > Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". 
> > In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without 
> > sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to 
> > smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires 
> > somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
> >    
> > Rune
> 
> Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and
> long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy.
> 
> Jerry

Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like to 
see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the world 
to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat "lutefisk" 
is another.

"Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of 
preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried 
fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in 
water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the soaking 
is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian antonym of 
acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't know the 
terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a strong 
basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you soak the 
dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", rinse in running 
fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few
minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the 
local essential garnish, which varies from place to place.

I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point of 
view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to mention 
motivation) to invent a dish like this.

Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine?

Rune

"Jaime Andres Aranguren Cardona" <jaime.aranguren@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:14a86f87.0312191002.3ce09e02@posting.google.com...
> Best wishes for Xtmas and New Year, for all the people in comp.dsp!!!

Me, too - Be happy and don't worry in X-max and New Year, all people in
comp.dsp. Especially people who have helped me and have read my article.

-- 
Regards,
---
James K. (txdiversity@hotmail.com)
- Any remarks, proposal and/or indicator to text would be greatly
 respected.
- Private opinions: These are not the opinions from my affiliation.
[Home] http://home.naver.com/txdiversity

> 
> Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
> 
>   God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!

Let me participate, too:

Season's greetings in Spanish:

Feliz Navidad y Prospero A�o Nuevo!

JaaC

> 
> Rune

On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
wrote:

>r.lyons@REMOVE.ieee.org (Rick Lyons) wrote in message news:<3fe206fa.274026125@news.west.earthlink.net>...
>> Hi, before I forget:
>> 
>> Here's wishin' you guys a Merry Christmas and 
>> a Happy New Year!
>> 
>> Of course, these good wishes are also directed at any 
>> of you who do not celebrate Christmas such as: Muslims, 
>> Hindi, God-less Atheists, Buddhists, motorcycle mechanics, 
>> Sikhs, Jews, IIR filter designers, Shinto, Democrats, 
>> Neo-Pagans, Government Employees, Scientologists, 
>> people from Ohio, and Rastafarians.
>> 
>> [-Rick-]
>
>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
>
>  God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
>
>Rune

Ahh, what the h***, here's the "happy christmas"-wishes from Sweden:

God Jul och Gott Nytt �r till allesammans!

Why can't all sort of nationality write their equivalence to happy
christmas and a happy new year?, I would like to hear the french
version :) 

//Spike

allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in message news:<f56893ae.0312202305.1d783a64@posting.google.com>...
> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe4d2c7$0$4751$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> > Rune Allnor wrote:
> > 
> > > "Eric C. Weaver" <weav@sigma.net> wrote in message news:<3fe484be@news.announcetech.com>...
> > > 
> > >>Rick Lyons wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>On 19 Dec 2003 20:32:32 -0800, allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor)
> > >>>wrote:
> > >>
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
> > >>>>
> > >>>>God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Rune
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Ah ha, neat.
> > >>>
> > >>>Rune, what does it mean?
> > >>
> > >>Just taking a guess, good Yule and good new year to all ... er...  salmon.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Almost correct. "alle sammen" means "everybody". The fish "salmon"
> > > is called "laks" in Norwegian. I think "laks" or something very similar 
> > > is used in certain English names for fish dishes?
> > > 
> > > Rune
> > 
> > "Lachs" in other Germanic language. "Lox" is smoked salmon in American
> > English. It comes from Eastern Europe where, before refrigeration, lox
> > and gravlax were all the salmon that people in the interior knew.
> 
> In that case, the words probably come from the Scandinavian languages, 
> although not necessarily Norwegian. The Swedes historically had far 
> stronger influence to the east, and the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish
> languages differ only in cosmetic details. The name "gravlaks" is a 
> concatenation made from the words "� grave" (literally "to dig", could
> be stretched to include "to bury") and "laks" (salmon). According to 
> folklore (I don't know if this is the true explanation, but it could 
> very well be) salmon was preserved by storing the raw fish in a container, 
> only sprinkeled with sugar and salt, before being put away in storage for 
> weeks or months. This causes a certain maturing/cooking process to take 
> place in the fish meat (not entirely dissimilar to the Italian 
> carpaccio(?), although that one cooks in minutes). According to legend, 
> the "storage" originally was a hole in the ground where the container 
> was buried. Thus the name "gravlaks", "buried salmon".
> 
> Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". 
> In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without 
> sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to 
> smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires 
> somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
>    
> Rune

When, around 10 years ago, I was working on a sonar for the Royal
Swedish Navy and we had a party to celebrate the end of the project. 
The project manager brought a tin of similarly "matured" herring. 
Towards the end of the evening he opened the tin, bringing the party
to a very swift end.  I am told that the smell lingered for quite some
time ;-)

"Acquired taste" is an extreme understatement.

Ian

http://www.satamatics.com
(submarines to satellites was quite a jump but they both have signals
to process :-))

Rune Allnor wrote:
> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> 
>>Rune Allnor wrote:
>>
>>   ...
>>
>>
>>
>>>Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". 
>>>In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without 
>>>sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to 
>>>smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires 
>>>somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
>>>   
>>>Rune
>>
>>Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and
>>long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy.
>>
>>Jerry
> 
> 
> Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like to 
> see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the world 
> to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat "lutefisk" 
> is another.
> 
> "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of 
> preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried 
> fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in 
> water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the soaking 
> is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian antonym of 
> acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't know the 
> terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a strong 
> basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you soak the 
> dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", rinse in running 
> fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few
> minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the 
> local essential garnish, which varies from place to place.
> 
> I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point of 
> view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to mention 
> motivation) to invent a dish like this.
> 
> Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine?
> 
> Rune

Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned of
it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in
Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of
Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to
lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html

"Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's
reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related word
is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made by
soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate.
(Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Jaime Andres Aranguren Cardona wrote:
>>Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
>>
>>  God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
> 
> 
> Let me participate, too:
> 
> Season's greetings in Spanish:
> 
> Feliz Navidad y Prospero A�o Nuevo!
> 
> JaaC
> 
> 
>>Rune
> 

And in Danish:

God Jul og Godt Nyt�r alle sammen

Rune, I believe that Odin and Thor just got recognition
from the Danish state as a real religion. So it isn't
entirely extinct :)

Whether xmas happened to be right around winter solstice
,which has been celebrated since forever, by coincidence or
a smart PR-stunt I don't know but I'm sure it helped ;)


-Lasse

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

   ...

> Whether xmas happened to be right around winter solstice
> ,which has been celebrated since forever, by coincidence or
> a smart PR-stunt I don't know but I'm sure it helped ;)
> 
> 
> -Lasse

Of course it was no coincidence. The year of Christ's birth is not known
with certainty, let alone the month and day.

Incidental intelligence: the literal translation of "Jesus Christ(us)"
into English is "Jesse Anointed".

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe700f1$0$4758$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> Rune Allnor wrote:
> > Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> > 
> >>Rune Allnor wrote:
> >>
> >>   ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the "rakfisk". 
> >>>In the latter case the fish is left in the container to "mature" without 
> >>>sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" can be compared to 
> >>>smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the "rakfisk" requires 
> >>>somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
> >>>   
> >>>Rune
> >>
> >>Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and
> >>long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy.
> >>
> >>Jerry
> > 
> > 
> > Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like to 
> > see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the world 
> > to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat "lutefisk" 
> > is another.
> > 
> > "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of 
> > preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried 
> > fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in 
> > water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the soaking 
> > is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian antonym of 
> > acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't know the 
> > terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a strong 
> > basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you soak the 
> > dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", rinse in running 
> > fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few
> > minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the 
> > local essential garnish, which varies from place to place.
> > 
> > I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point of 
> > view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to mention 
> > motivation) to invent a dish like this.
> > 
> > Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine?
> > 
> > Rune
> 
> Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned of
> it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in
> Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of
> Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to
> lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html

Interesting. Apparently, Minnesota and N/S Dakota is the area of the USA
where the majority of the Norwegian emigrees of the 19th century went. 
There is a story of a flood in the river Gudbransdalsl�gen, that flows 
past Lillehammer where the 1994 winter olymics were held, some time in 
the mid 19th century. The flood basically wiped out most of the farms 
in the narrow Gudbrandsdalen valley, leaving the survivors in great 
despair. Many of the survivors who lost their farms were either relocated 
as settlers in an area to the far north of Norway (M�lselv near Troms�), 
or they went across the pond and settled in USA.

The peculiar thing is that the decendants of these relocated people, both 
in M�lselv and in USA, have proven to be great resources for linguisticians. 
They have preserved their original 1850ies dialect from the Gudbrandsdalen 
valley and served as reference material for researchers who wanted to map 
the development of the Norwegian language. 

> "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's
> reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related word
> is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made by
> soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate.
> (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap.

It's the same thing, apparently. The "lut" vs "lutE" thing is due to some 
grammatical detail in written Norwegian, which is not quite the same as 
spoken Norwegian. It's no surprise that it is lost among non-native 
Norwegians. In fact, it was never even there in my spoken Norwegian 
dialect. 

Rune

allnor@tele.ntnu.no (Rune Allnor) wrote in
news:f56893ae.0312221058.62c69a2f@posting.google.com: 

> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:<3fe700f1$0$4758$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... 
>> Rune Allnor wrote:
>> > Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message
>> > news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>... 
>> > 
>> >>Rune Allnor wrote:
>> >>
>> >>   ...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the
>> >>>"rakfisk". In the latter case the fish is left in the container to
>> >>>"mature" without sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks"
>> >>>can be compared to smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the
>> >>>"rakfisk" requires somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
>> >>>   
>> >>>Rune
>> >>
>> >>Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and
>> >>long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy.
>> >>
>> >>Jerry
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really
>> > like to see, although from a very safe distance: The first person
>> > in the world to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever
>> > to eat "lutefisk" is another.
>> > 
>> > "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way
>> > of preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this
>> > dried fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves
>> > soaking it in water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk",
>> > however, the soaking is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is
>> > the Norwegian antonym of acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in
>> > English so I don't know the terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some
>> > compund that makes a strong basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7)
>> > to the water where you soak the dried fish. After reconstituting
>> > the fish in this "lut", rinse in running fresh water for a couple
>> > of days. Then, let the fish boil gently for a few minutes and serve
>> > with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + the local
>> > essential garnish, which varies from place to place. 
>> > 
>> > I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking
>> > point of view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not
>> > to mention motivation) to invent a dish like this.
>> > 
>> > Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European
>> > cuisine? 
>> > 
>> > Rune
>> 
>> Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned
>> of it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in
>> Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of
>> Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to
>> lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html
> 
> Interesting. Apparently, Minnesota and N/S Dakota is the area of the
> USA where the majority of the Norwegian emigrees of the 19th century
> went. There is a story of a flood in the river Gudbransdalsl�gen, that
> flows past Lillehammer where the 1994 winter olymics were held, some
> time in the mid 19th century. The flood basically wiped out most of
> the farms in the narrow Gudbrandsdalen valley, leaving the survivors
> in great despair. Many of the survivors who lost their farms were
> either relocated as settlers in an area to the far north of Norway
> (M�lselv near Troms�), or they went across the pond and settled in
> USA. 
> 
> The peculiar thing is that the decendants of these relocated people,
> both in M�lselv and in USA, have proven to be great resources for
> linguisticians. They have preserved their original 1850ies dialect
> from the Gudbrandsdalen valley and served as reference material for
> researchers who wanted to map the development of the Norwegian
> language. 
> 
>> "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's
>> reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related
>> word is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made
>> by soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate.
>> (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap.
> 
> It's the same thing, apparently. The "lut" vs "lutE" thing is due to
> some grammatical detail in written Norwegian, which is not quite the
> same as spoken Norwegian. It's no surprise that it is lost among
> non-native Norwegians. In fact, it was never even there in my spoken
> Norwegian dialect. 
> 
> Rune
> 

As a Minnesota native, I can attest that lutefisk is way too popular. We 
have a nearby restaurant that has a lutefisk buffet every Monday night 
during the winter. Somehow, Drano and fish is supposed to be appetizing.

My understanding is that lutefisk was a way to preserve cod in those 
parts of Norway where fresh fish was not available. We have a friend who 
grew up in Norway and emigrated to Minnesota. She had never heard of 
lutefisk until she moved here.

Of course, emigrants were usually poor. This suggests they didn't live in 
the more affluent coastal regions of Norway. 

Fortunately for me, my last name is Clark, so no one expects me to eat 
it. I guess, I'm supposed to eat haggis.


-- 
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com

Jerry Avins wrote:
> Rune Allnor wrote:
> 
>> Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message 
>> news:<3fe5db06$0$4752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
>>
>>> Rune Allnor wrote:
>>>
>>>   ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gravlaks should not be confused with the "real thing", the 
>>>> "rakfisk". In the latter case the fish is left in the container to 
>>>> "mature" without sugar or salt or anything else. Where "gravlaks" 
>>>> can be compared to smoked slamon in both taste and appearance, the 
>>>> "rakfisk" requires somewhat more of an "acquired taste".
>>>>   Rune
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking of acquired taste in fish, only dire necessity and
>>> long tradition could transmute lutfisk into a delicacy.
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>> Most certainly. There are some historical people I would really like 
>> to see, although from a very safe distance: The first person in the 
>> world to eat "rakfisk" would be one, the first person ever to eat 
>> "lutefisk" is another.
>>
>> "Lutefisk" is based on dried fish (cod), which is a traditional way of 
>> preserving fish in the northern parts of Norway. Now, using this dried 
>> fish (which resembles a piece of wood) usually involves soaking it in 
>> water for some time. In the case of the "lutefisk", however, the 
>> soaking is done with a twist: You add "lut", which is the Norwegian 
>> antonym of acid (sorry, I never read chemistry in English so I don't 
>> know the terminology of chemistry. "Lut" is some compund that makes a 
>> strong basic(?) solution, i.e. with pH >> 7) to the water where you 
>> soak the dried fish. After reconstituting the fish in this "lut", 
>> rinse in running fresh water for a couple of days. Then, let the fish 
>> boil gently for a few
>> minutes and serve with boiled potatoes, mushy peas and fried bacon + 
>> the local essential garnish, which varies from place to place.
>>
>> I think "lutefisk" is a basically(!) insane dish from a cooking point 
>> of view. It takes a very particular kind of imagination (not to 
>> mention motivation) to invent a dish like this.
>>
>> Wow, Jerry, how come you know so much about northern European cuisine?
>>
>> Rune
> 
> 
> Lutfisk is preserved with lye, itself an interesting word. I learned of
> it from my friend Barbara Hansen's Mother, who lived and died in
> Minnesota. I suspect that "lut" vs. "lute" depends on which part of
> Scandinavia (or America) one inhabits. There are many references to
> lutfisk on the web. One is http://www.surfminnesota.net/lutfisk.html
> 
> "Lye" is what remains in English of Latin "lixivium"; leachate. It's
> reasonable to suppose that "lut" has the same genealogy. A related word
> is "elixir". It derives in turn from "xero-"; dry. Lye is made by
> soaking wood ash in a large pot and drying the resulting leachate.
> (Potash.) Good for lots of things. Not only lutfisk, but also soap.
> 
> Jerry

I believe it's potassium hydroxide, maybe that's why it's called potash?
it's also used on wood floors and such to prevent it from turning yellow
from sunlight, gives its a white dusty look.

while we are at the northern European cuisine, an unavoidable part of a 
danish xmas lunch is marinated herring on rye bread, with a curry salad
on top and a few "snaps" on the side ;)



-Lasse

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

   ...

> I believe it's potassium hydroxide, maybe that's why it's called potash?
> it's also used on wood floors and such to prevent it from turning yellow
> from sunlight, gives its a white dusty look.
> 
> while we are at the northern European cuisine, an unavoidable part of a 
> danish xmas lunch is marinated herring on rye bread, with a curry salad
> on top and a few "snaps" on the side ;)

Yes, potash is largely potassium hydroxide, but there's a fair amount of
sodium in the stuff made the old way. Sodium hydroxide and beef fat
(glyceral stearate) makes glycerin and the kind of soap we're used to.
Potassium hydroxide makes soft soap, and home-made soap made from
wood-ash lye is somewhere between.

Is it a case of "You say snaps, I say schnapps"? If not, what?

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3FE78B7F.6070206@ieee.org>...
> I believe it's potassium hydroxide, maybe that's why it's called potash?
> it's also used on wood floors and such to prevent it from turning yellow
> from sunlight, gives its a white dusty look.
> 
> while we are at the northern European cuisine, an unavoidable part of a 
> danish xmas lunch is marinated herring on rye bread, with a curry salad
> on top and a few "snaps" on the side ;)
> 

Maybe its the other way round

Pot (wood) Ash -> Potash -> Potas(h)sium ??

Have a good holiday !

Regards
Robert

Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3fe7265e$0$4742$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> 
>    ...
> 
> > Whether xmas happened to be right around winter solstice
> > ,which has been celebrated since forever, by coincidence or
> > a smart PR-stunt I don't know but I'm sure it helped ;)
> > 
> > 
> > -Lasse
> 
> Of course it was no coincidence. The year of Christ's birth is not known
> with certainty, let alone the month and day.

Actually, I saw an astronomer on Norwegian TV the other day who postulated
an explanation of the Christmas Star. He said that Saturn and Jupiter had
been in close conjunction three times during the year 7 BC. 

Jupiter and Saturn being in conjunction apparently happens every 20 years
or so. At this particular instance, the conjunction happened around that 
half-weird retrograde apparent motion of the planets. According to this 
astronomer, there was a conjunction just prior to the retrograde motion, 
another conjunction during the retrograde motion, and yet another 
conjunction after the retrograde motion of Jupiter and/or Saturn. Certainly 
something the astronomers of the time would take notice of. Apparently, 
this "triple conjunction" is very rare, it happens once every 1000 years 
or so. And there was, evidently, the last point that these conjunctions 
happened in the constellation Pisces, which apparently had a special 
significance for the people in Jerusalem.

Since these conjunctions can be dated very presicely, this astronomer 
said something like "If these conjunction really are what we know as 
the Christmas Star, we can postulate that the three wise men visited 
king Herod on either September 12th or December 15th in the year 7 BC".

An explanation is given in Norwegian on the URL

http://www.astro.uio.no/ita/nyheter/betlehem_0103/betlehem_0103.html

which sorts under the department for theoretical astrophysics at 
the University of Oslo.

Rune

On 22 Dec 2003 21:52:40 -0800, Robert Gush <robert@suesound.co.za> wrote:
> Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@ieee.org> wrote in message news:<3FE78B7F.6070206@ieee.org>...
>> I believe it's potassium hydroxide, maybe that's why it's called potash?
>> it's also used on wood floors and such to prevent it from turning yellow
>> from sunlight, gives its a white dusty look.
>> 
>> while we are at the northern European cuisine, an unavoidable part of a 
>> danish xmas lunch is marinated herring on rye bread, with a curry salad
>> on top and a few "snaps" on the side ;)
>> 
> 
> Maybe its the other way round
> 
> Pot (wood) Ash -> Potash -> Potas(h)sium ??
> 
> Have a good holiday !
> 

I've always wondered where the "K" came from.

"Charles Krug" <charles@pentek.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbugk36.qjj.charles@homer.pentek.org...
> >
> > Pot (wood) Ash -> Potash -> Potas(h)sium ??
> >
>
> I've always wondered where the "K" came from.
>

Charles,

K -> Kalium (Latin)

Clay

Robert Gush wrote:

   ...

> Pot (wood) Ash -> Potash -> Potas(h)sium ??

Precisely! It's Sir Humphrey Davey's pseudo Latin. Potassium is also 
known as Kallium -- hence its symbol, K -- from Arabic "qali". You will 
guess accurately what "al qali" became in English.

Let's see: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/hist.html
Yup! (I like to check facts learned long ago.)

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Rune Allnor wrote:

   ...

> Actually, I saw an astronomer on Norwegian TV the other day who postulated
> an explanation of the Christmas Star. He said that Saturn and Jupiter had
> been in close conjunction three times during the year 7 BC. 
> 
   ...

I've seen a number of supposedly scientific speculations about the
Christmas star, all with the same flaw. The "star in the east"
supposedly led the Magi to Bethlehem, but the location of a star depends
on the time of night, and even if fixed in the firmament while the
others move, where you get to when traveling toward it is determined by
where you start. Maybe there were tens of thousands of Magi following
the star, but history only records the four who started in the right
place. Or maybe someone made it all up.

Jerry
-- 
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
�����������������������������������������������������������������������

Jaime Andres Aranguren Cardona wrote:

>> 
>> Here's the season's greetings in Norwegian: 
>> 
>>   God Jul og Godt Nytt�r til alle sammen!
> 
> Let me participate, too:
> 
> Season's greetings in Spanish:
> 
> Feliz Navidad y Prospero A�o Nuevo!

Just listening to Celia Cruz y La Sonora Matancera, El Cha Cha Cha de 
la Navidad :)


Best Wishes,
Martin

> JaaC
> 
>> 
>> Rune

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:53:33 -0500, Clay S. Turner <CSTurner@WSE.Biz> wrote:
> 
> "Charles Krug" <charles@pentek.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnbugk36.qjj.charles@homer.pentek.org...
>> >
>> > Pot (wood) Ash -> Potash -> Potas(h)sium ??
>> >
>>
>> I've always wondered where the "K" came from.
>>
> 
> Charles,
> 
> K -> Kalium (Latin)
> 
> 

Thanks.  I've done lots of work joining Cuprium tubes with Plumbium, but
Kalium and water mix all too well to be practical for that purpose.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:16:46 -0500, Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote:
> Rune Allnor wrote:
> 
>    ...
> 
>> Actually, I saw an astronomer on Norwegian TV the other day who postulated
>> an explanation of the Christmas Star. He said that Saturn and Jupiter had
>> been in close conjunction three times during the year 7 BC. 
>> 
>    ...
> 
> I've seen a number of supposedly scientific speculations about the
> Christmas star, all with the same flaw. The "star in the east"
> supposedly led the Magi to Bethlehem, but the location of a star depends
> on the time of night, and even if fixed in the firmament while the
> others move, where you get to when traveling toward it is determined by
> where you start. Maybe there were tens of thousands of Magi following
> the star, but history only records the four who started in the right
> place. Or maybe someone made it all up.
> 

The number's unspecified in the original account.  All you get it "Wise
Men from the East saw his Star" . . if they were astrologers, they were
looking for something much more subtle than is typically depicted.

In the Matthew account, they "Saw his star" and knew to go to Judea,
where they reported to the authorities who consulted the priests who
told them where to look.

Were they "Following yonder star," much of that would have been
unnecessary.  "The Greatest Story Ever Told" wasn't especially faithful
to even the English language translations of the source material :-)

You'd have to find an astronomical event in the first decade BC (BCE if
you prefer) that would have, according to the astrological practices of
a people approximately one year's journey East (and with the wherewithal
to send a caravan to Judea under Roman rule).

Anyone alive today who can authortatively speak on BOTH astronomy and
the astrological beliefs of Assyria, Asia Minor, and Persia in the
first century BC?  Anyone?  Buehler?  Anyone?

Many people know the song "We Three Kings" which gets much of this,
including the number, Just Wrong in the first verse.  It does however
recover nicely in the subsequent four verses, at least from the
Christian perspective on the meaning of the gifts.

Even more confusing is that a number of Afro American spirituals speak
of "A Star in the East," which makes no sense until you recall that much
of that body of music spoke of returning to Africa in coded terms.