f



Is it possible to run WINE without a DE running?

Hey :)

I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files and other stuff. One
thing I'd like it to do is to run DC++ 24/7, but I'd like to not run a
desktop environment unless it's absolutely necessary.

Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without running a DE?

TIA,
Daniel


-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/12/2005 6:26:39 PM
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In article <34l8epF4c11nbU1@individual.net>,
	DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
> 
> I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files and other stuff. One
> thing I'd like it to do is to run DC++ 24/7, but I'd like to not run a
> desktop environment unless it's absolutely necessary.
> 
> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without running a DE?

Yes, but AFAIK you still must be running X. Depending on the application
and your WINE settings, you might also need to have a window manager
running, as well.

That said, I'm not familiar with DC++ or DC++ 24/7 (I'm not even sure
which is the correct name). I don't know if it'll run under WINE or what
Unix alternatives exist. Certainly for serving files generally, there are
plenty of Unix alternatives -- several FTP servers, several Web servers,
Samba, NFS, etc. If any of these is an acceptable substitute, you might
want to look into them rather than a Windows program under WINE. Unix
servers can be run without running X at all, and you won't run into
WINE-related bugs (although of course the servers themselves could have
bugs).

-- 
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
0
rodsmith
1/12/2005 7:15:19 PM
DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:

> I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files and
> other stuff. One thing I'd like it to do is to run DC++
> 24/7, but I'd like to not run a desktop environment unless
> it's absolutely necessary.
>
> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without
> running a DE?

You have two choices (at least):

1. using Wine's ttydrv (instead of x11drv) inside a screen
   session.  This is a pure text solution, but ttydrv is
   rather buggy as it receives almost no testing.

2. using vncserver (Xvnc), which is an X server which
   doesn't need a display device but works into internal
   bitmaps (which can optionall be shown by an appropriate
   client).  This requires more resources but surely works
   if the DC++ server otherwise does, it's just a different
   DISPLAY.
-- 
Good luck,
Feri.
0
Ferenc
1/12/2005 9:48:16 PM
Rod Smith wrote:

> In article <34l8epF4c11nbU1@individual.net>,
> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files and other stuff.
>> One thing I'd like it to do is to run DC++ 24/7, but I'd like to not run
>> a desktop environment unless it's absolutely necessary.
>> 
>> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without running a DE?
> 
> Yes, but AFAIK you still must be running X. Depending on the application
> and your WINE settings, you might also need to have a window manager
> running, as well.
> 

Okay, running X and that is fine, I just like it to be as "slim" as possible
(so if nothing else works I'll probably just run fluxbox or something like
that on it) :)

Is this something that WINE will "work out" for itself? I mean, can I simply
do wine dcplusplus.exe and WINE will figure out the environment and perhaps
start X?

> That said, I'm not familiar with DC++ or DC++ 24/7 (I'm not even sure
> which is the correct name). I don't know if it'll run under WINE or what

Actually, by "run DC++ 24/7" I meant I'd like to run it all the time :D It's
just called DC++. It's a file sharing app like a lot others, but it has
compressed transfers which last time I checked none of the Linux
alternatives did. It's better than the Linux Direct Connect clients in all
ways anyway :P

> Unix alternatives exist. Certainly for serving files generally, there are
> plenty of Unix alternatives -- several FTP servers, several Web servers,
> Samba, NFS, etc. If any of these is an acceptable substitute, you might
> want to look into them rather than a Windows program under WINE. Unix
> servers can be run without running X at all, and you won't run into
> WINE-related bugs (although of course the servers themselves could have
> bugs).
> 

Yes, I like it when a program consists of a service and a separate GUI that
you can just run when you need to "talk" to the app. Unfortunately, no one
has made a Direct Connect client like that yet. That would be perfect for a
server, to keep it completely clean from GUIs, then I could just SSH in and
use a remote GUI, that'd be sweet :)

Thanks for your reply!

Daniel

-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/13/2005 3:49:56 PM
Ferenc Wagner wrote:

> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
> 
>> I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files and
>> other stuff. One thing I'd like it to do is to run DC++
>> 24/7, but I'd like to not run a desktop environment unless
>> it's absolutely necessary.
>>
>> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without
>> running a DE?
> 
> You have two choices (at least):
> 
> 1. using Wine's ttydrv (instead of x11drv) inside a screen
>    session.  This is a pure text solution, but ttydrv is
>    rather buggy as it receives almost no testing.
> 

Yes, so that's a no-go? Also when the app is graphics based?

> 2. using vncserver (Xvnc), which is an X server which
>    doesn't need a display device but works into internal
>    bitmaps (which can optionall be shown by an appropriate
>    client).  This requires more resources but surely works
>    if the DC++ server otherwise does, it's just a different
>    DISPLAY.

So I could run this in one of my ttys? I've used vncserver before, but that
was for "remote controlling", but you say that you can use it on the same
machine? How would this be done in practice? An example would be great :D

Thank you,
Daniel

-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/13/2005 3:52:24 PM
In article <34njksF4bmg1oU1@individual.net>,
	DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
> 
> Rod Smith wrote:
> 
>> In article <34l8epF4c11nbU1@individual.net>,
>> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>>> 
>>> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without running a DE?
>> 
>> Yes, but AFAIK you still must be running X. Depending on the application
>> and your WINE settings, you might also need to have a window manager
>> running, as well.
> 
> Is this something that WINE will "work out" for itself? I mean, can I simply
> do wine dcplusplus.exe and WINE will figure out the environment and perhaps
> start X?

I'm pretty sure you need to start X yourself; AFAIK, WINE won't launch X
if it isn't already running. Of course, you could write a simple script
that'd do both jobs -- just include a call to startx followed by a call
to wine with appropriate parameters to start your application. (You might
also need something to delay a bit between the two, to give X time to
start.) If your server needs to run as root, though, you might want to
launch X as a normal user and then use su or some such to get WINE and
the server running as root.

-- 
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
0
rodsmith
1/13/2005 4:58:48 PM
In article <34njpgF4bmg1oU2@individual.net>,
	DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
> 
> Ferenc Wagner wrote:
> 
>> 2. using vncserver (Xvnc), which is an X server which
>>    doesn't need a display device but works into internal
>>    bitmaps (which can optionall be shown by an appropriate
>>    client).  This requires more resources but surely works
>>    if the DC++ server otherwise does, it's just a different
>>    DISPLAY.
> 
> So I could run this in one of my ttys? I've used vncserver before, but that
> was for "remote controlling", but you say that you can use it on the same
> machine? How would this be done in practice? An example would be great :D

VNC is a remote-access tool -- you can use it to control a Linux system
from a Windows system, a Windows system from a MacOS system, or what have
you. If you want to run your server on a Linux system but control the
server from another computer, using VNC makes sense. If you want to
control the server program from the Linux system's console, though, using
VNC offers few or no advantages over running a conventional X server
(X.org-X11 or XFree86, say) locally.

-- 
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
0
rodsmith
1/13/2005 5:01:46 PM
DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:

> Ferenc Wagner wrote:
>
>> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>> 
>>> I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files
>>> and other stuff. One thing I'd like it to do is to run
>>> DC++ 24/7, but I'd like to not run a desktop environment
>>> unless it's absolutely necessary.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without
>>> running a DE?
>> 
>> You have two choices (at least):
>> 
>> 1. using Wine's ttydrv (instead of x11drv) inside a screen
>>    session.  This is a pure text solution, but ttydrv is
>>    rather buggy as it receives almost no testing.
>
> Yes, so that's a no-go? Also when the app is graphics based?

Just try it, it may work.  You won't see any graphics, of
course: that's simply discarded.  But that's fine if you
don't want to click buttons and such.  It's definitely the
cheapest solution, but very few people use this, that's why
it's somewhat unstable.

>> 2. using vncserver (Xvnc), which is an X server which
>>    doesn't need a display device but works into internal
>>    bitmaps (which can optionall be shown by an appropriate
>>    client).  This requires more resources but surely works
>>    if the DC++ server otherwise does, it's just a different
>>    DISPLAY.
>
> So I could run this in one of my ttys? I've used vncserver
> before, but that was for "remote controlling", but you say
> that you can use it on the same machine?

Sure.  Xvnc is totally user space, doesn't need root
privileges like real X servers as it doesn't touch the video
hardware.  You can run vncserver from a tty, and it will
create an X display for you.  After that, run Wine on that
virtual display (say it's :1):

$ DISPLAY=:1 wine dc++.exe &

Then you can connect to your VNC server running Wine from
anywhere you want (even from localhost, of course) by any
VNC viewer client, and interact with the GUI of dc++.  Since
the default setup of vncserver doesn't include a window
manager, it would be somewhat awkward, though.  But nothing
keeps you from starting a slim WM from your VNC startup
files.  Or manually, even, just like Wine above.  Good luck!
-- 
Feri.
0
Ferenc
1/14/2005 11:04:28 AM
Ferenc Wagner wrote:

> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
> 
>> Ferenc Wagner wrote:
>>
>>> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>>> 
>>>> I'm setting up a little personal server to serve files
>>>> and other stuff. One thing I'd like it to do is to run
>>>> DC++ 24/7, but I'd like to not run a desktop environment
>>>> unless it's absolutely necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without
>>>> running a DE?
>>> 
>>> You have two choices (at least):
>>> 
>>> 1. using Wine's ttydrv (instead of x11drv) inside a screen
>>>    session.  This is a pure text solution, but ttydrv is
>>>    rather buggy as it receives almost no testing.
>>
>> Yes, so that's a no-go? Also when the app is graphics based?
> 
> Just try it, it may work.  You won't see any graphics, of
> course: that's simply discarded.  But that's fine if you
> don't want to click buttons and such.  It's definitely the
> cheapest solution, but very few people use this, that's why
> it's somewhat unstable.
> 
>>> 2. using vncserver (Xvnc), which is an X server which
>>>    doesn't need a display device but works into internal
>>>    bitmaps (which can optionall be shown by an appropriate
>>>    client).  This requires more resources but surely works
>>>    if the DC++ server otherwise does, it's just a different
>>>    DISPLAY.
>>
>> So I could run this in one of my ttys? I've used vncserver
>> before, but that was for "remote controlling", but you say
>> that you can use it on the same machine?
> 
> Sure.  Xvnc is totally user space, doesn't need root
> privileges like real X servers as it doesn't touch the video
> hardware.  You can run vncserver from a tty, and it will
> create an X display for you.  After that, run Wine on that
> virtual display (say it's :1):
> 
> $ DISPLAY=:1 wine dc++.exe &
> 
> Then you can connect to your VNC server running Wine from
> anywhere you want (even from localhost, of course) by any
> VNC viewer client, and interact with the GUI of dc++.  Since
> the default setup of vncserver doesn't include a window
> manager, it would be somewhat awkward, though.  But nothing
> keeps you from starting a slim WM from your VNC startup
> files.  Or manually, even, just like Wine above.  Good luck!

Man, that's cool! :D I haven't actually installed WINE yet (sooo many things
to figure out with Samba, Apache, SQL, firewall, internet connection
sharing, etc... :) ), but I'm saving these mails! Thanks alot for your
help :)

Daniel

-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/14/2005 5:13:17 PM
Rod Smith wrote:

> In article <34njpgF4bmg1oU2@individual.net>,
> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> Ferenc Wagner wrote:
>> 
>>> 2. using vncserver (Xvnc), which is an X server which
>>>    doesn't need a display device but works into internal
>>>    bitmaps (which can optionall be shown by an appropriate
>>>    client).  This requires more resources but surely works
>>>    if the DC++ server otherwise does, it's just a different
>>>    DISPLAY.
>> 
>> So I could run this in one of my ttys? I've used vncserver before, but
>> that was for "remote controlling", but you say that you can use it on the
>> same machine? How would this be done in practice? An example would be
>> great :D
> 
> VNC is a remote-access tool -- you can use it to control a Linux system
> from a Windows system, a Windows system from a MacOS system, or what have
> you. If you want to run your server on a Linux system but control the
> server from another computer, using VNC makes sense. If you want to
> control the server program from the Linux system's console, though, using
> VNC offers few or no advantages over running a conventional X server
> (X.org-X11 or XFree86, say) locally.
> 

It'd definitely be nice to be able to access it remotely from my Windows box
too - I already control the server from my Mandrake laptop thru SSH. That
is one cool way to do it, I'm so impressed with the way graphical
applications run over SSH. But being able to control DC++ from a vncclient
on the Windows box would be really useful! 

Thanks :)

-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/14/2005 5:15:26 PM
Rod Smith wrote:

> In article <34njksF4bmg1oU1@individual.net>,
> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> Rod Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <34l8epF4c11nbU1@individual.net>,
>>> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>>>> 
>>>> Is it possible to run a graphical app in WINE without running a DE?
>>> 
>>> Yes, but AFAIK you still must be running X. Depending on the application
>>> and your WINE settings, you might also need to have a window manager
>>> running, as well.
>> 
>> Is this something that WINE will "work out" for itself? I mean, can I
>> simply do wine dcplusplus.exe and WINE will figure out the environment
>> and perhaps start X?
> 
> I'm pretty sure you need to start X yourself; AFAIK, WINE won't launch X
> if it isn't already running. Of course, you could write a simple script
> that'd do both jobs -- just include a call to startx followed by a call
> to wine with appropriate parameters to start your application. (You might
> also need something to delay a bit between the two, to give X time to
> start.) If your server needs to run as root, though, you might want to
> launch X as a normal user and then use su or some such to get WINE and
> the server running as root.
> 

Okay, that's cool, I've been playing around with bash scripts - I made a
couple to (un)mount my iPod and some Samba shares on my Windows box before
I made the Linux server, so that would be something I definitely could do.
I think I'll run WINE as a non-privileged user, more secure - there has
been a bug in DC++ where you could download any file on a system!

Thank you very much for your help :)

Daniel

-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/14/2005 5:18:08 PM
In article <34qd15F4cc7ubU2@individual.net>,
	DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
> 
> It'd definitely be nice to be able to access it remotely from my Windows box
> too - I already control the server from my Mandrake laptop thru SSH. That
> is one cool way to do it, I'm so impressed with the way graphical
> applications run over SSH. But being able to control DC++ from a vncclient
> on the Windows box would be really useful! 

In that case, you'd want to launch a conventional VNC server session as
an ordinary user and launch DC++ in it using WINE. You could either do
this manually or create a script to launch both programs. If the latter,
though, you'll need to ensure it's running on the correct X session by
setting the DISPLAY environment variable correctly. You might need to do
some extra research and experiment a bit to get this detail right. The
way VNC works, you could then control the DC++ server using its GUI from
any system by connecting to the Linux VNC server.

-- 
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
0
rodsmith
1/14/2005 10:17:48 PM
Rod Smith wrote:

> In article <34qd15F4cc7ubU2@individual.net>,
> DanielEKFA <sorry.no.em@il.i.get.vira.and.spam.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> It'd definitely be nice to be able to access it remotely from my Windows
>> box too - I already control the server from my Mandrake laptop thru SSH.
>> That is one cool way to do it, I'm so impressed with the way graphical
>> applications run over SSH. But being able to control DC++ from a
>> vncclient on the Windows box would be really useful!
> 
> In that case, you'd want to launch a conventional VNC server session as
> an ordinary user and launch DC++ in it using WINE. You could either do
> this manually or create a script to launch both programs. If the latter,
> though, you'll need to ensure it's running on the correct X session by
> setting the DISPLAY environment variable correctly. You might need to do
> some extra research and experiment a bit to get this detail right. The
> way VNC works, you could then control the DC++ server using its GUI from
> any system by connecting to the Linux VNC server.
> 

I'm looking into it. It's looking bright, I just hope DC++ will run okay in
WINE - last I tried it was a little buggy, but mainly in the settings
window and it uses an XML settings file, so I don't really need it :)

Thanks for the help!

Daniel

-- 
"I marry Calculon, divorce him, take half his money, and turn back into a
guy - it's sort of a two-person pyramid scheme." --Bender
0
DanielEKFA
1/15/2005 11:32:37 PM
Reply: