f



"Fonts" and "Faces"

Fonts and Faces, Fonts and Faces
Each of them having Special Places

(to be sung to the tune of "Love and Marriage" in the musical "Our Town"!

I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such as Arno 
Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or "italic" or 
"regular" and so on.

So, the question is, am I correct?



-- 
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@me.com

0
10/1/2008 4:56:05 AM
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TaliesinSoft wrote:
> Fonts and Faces, Fonts and Faces
> Each of them having Special Places
> 
> (to be sung to the tune of "Love and Marriage" in the musical "Our Town"!
> 
> I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such as Arno 
> Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or "italic" or 
> "regular" and so on.
> 
> So, the question is, am I correct?
> 
> 
> 

No. Let's use Arial as an example, as I'm currently on a hotel 
connection with a ridiculously low usage limit and so don't want to look 
up Arno Pro right now.

Arial is a typeface. Arial Bold is a typeface. Aria Italic is a 
typeface. Arial Bold Italic is a typeface. Together (along with any 
other variants you want to throw in), they are a typeface family.

arial.ttf is a font.

Historically, a font was produced by a foundry (hint: there's an 
etymological connection there). It consisted of cast metal pieces. 
These, by the nature of physical reality, were not mutable in terms of 
being scalable up or down. Thus a 10 pt. font was always a 10 pt. font, 
and if you wanted an 11 pt. font, you had to buy it separately.

Digital fonts have overcome that difficulty, but from a vocabulary point 
of view, the font is what the foundry (vendor) sells. The typeface is 
the design on the page or screen.
0
Dick
10/1/2008 5:44:39 AM
>> Fonts and Faces, Fonts and Faces
>> Each of them having Special Places
>>
>> (to be sung to the tune of "Love and Marriage" in the musical "Our Town"!
>>
>> I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such as Arno
>> Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or "italic" or
>> "regular" and so on.
>>
>> So, the question is, am I correct?
>>
>>
>>
>
> No. Let's use Arial as an example, as I'm currently on a hotel
> connection with a ridiculously low usage limit and so don't want to look
> up Arno Pro right now.
>
> Arial is a typeface. Arial Bold is a typeface. Aria Italic is a
> typeface. Arial Bold Italic is a typeface. Together (along with any
> other variants you want to throw in), they are a typeface family.
>
> arial.ttf is a font.
>
> Historically, a font was produced by a foundry (hint: there's an
> etymological connection there). It consisted of cast metal pieces.
> These, by the nature of physical reality, were not mutable in terms of
> being scalable up or down. Thus a 10 pt. font was always a 10 pt. font,
> and if you wanted an 11 pt. font, you had to buy it separately.
>
> Digital fonts have overcome that difficulty, but from a vocabulary point
> of view, the font is what the foundry (vendor) sells. The typeface is
> the design on the page or screen.

Even Wikipedia don't get it right, close but not right - which is not a big surprise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font

For example many of the subheadings are wrong. Font width? What is it exactly? Fonts don't have widths, characters have widths. So it really should be something like 'Character widths in a font' or just 'Character widths'.

Jukka
0
Armadillo
10/1/2008 8:14:04 AM
Armadillo wrote:

> Even Wikipedia don't get it right, close but not right - which is not
> a big surprise.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font
> 
> For example many of the subheadings are wrong. Font width? What is it
> exactly? Fonts don't have widths, characters have widths. So it
> really should be something like 'Character widths in a font' or just
> 'Character widths'.

Language is fluid and readily changes as the things we use change in 
form or usage.  You might as well complain that people don't send 
"email" they send "e-mail messages" and your inbox doesn't contain 
"three new emails" but rather "three new e-mail messages".  It's a lost 
cause.

The *modern* usage of the word font has changed with the digital era. 
You can thank (or blame it on) software (Word, Excel, Photoshop, etc.) 
that uses the term "font" to describe the typeface features for text.

You might want to suggest the Language Log consider this topic:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/

This is *right* up their alley, and I'm sure the resulting discussion 
will be very enlightening.

jc
0
JC
10/1/2008 5:15:19 PM
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 00:44:39 -0500, Dick Margulis wrote (in article 
<LKydndukQsLLk37VnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@supernews.com>): 

> TaliesinSoft wrote: 

>> I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such as 
>> Arno Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or "italic" 
>> or "regular" and so on. 
>> 
>> So, the question is, am I correct? 

> No. Let's use Arial as an example, as I'm currently on a hotel connection 
> with a ridiculously low usage limit and so don't want to look up Arno Pro 
> right now. 

I'm running on a MacBook Pro and using OS X 10.5. I use Apple's included Font 
Book to manage fonts, and within it "Arial" is identified as a font and 
"Arial Bold" is identified as a typeface. 

> Arial is a typeface. Arial Bold is a typeface. Aria Italic is a typeface. 
> Arial Bold Italic is a typeface. Together (along with any other variants 
> you want to throw in), they are a typeface family. 

So, are you saying that Apple's terminology is incorrect? 

> arial.ttf is a font. 
> 
> Historically, a font was produced by a foundry (hint: there's an 
> etymological connection there). It consisted of cast metal pieces. These, 
> by the nature of physical reality, were not mutable in terms of being 
> scalable up or down. Thus a 10 pt. font was always a 10 pt. font, and if 
> you wanted an 11 pt. font, you had to buy it separately. 

It looks like the terminology is changing along with the technology. 

> Digital fonts have overcome that difficulty, but from a vocabulary point 
> of view, the font is what the foundry (vendor) sells. The typeface is the 
> design on the page or screen. 



-- 
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@me.com

0
TaliesinSoft
10/1/2008 8:50:45 PM
Nachricht von TaliesinSoft:
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 00:44:39 -0500, Dick Margulis wrote (in article 
> <LKydndukQsLLk37VnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@supernews.com>): 
> 
>> TaliesinSoft wrote: 
> 
>>> I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such as 
>>> Arno Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or "italic" 
>>> or "regular" and so on. 
>>>
>>> So, the question is, am I correct? 
> 
>> No. Let's use Arial as an example, as I'm currently on a hotel connection 
>> with a ridiculously low usage limit and so don't want to look up Arno Pro 
>> right now. 
> 
> I'm running on a MacBook Pro and using OS X 10.5. I use Apple's included Font 
> Book to manage fonts, and within it "Arial" is identified as a font and 
> "Arial Bold" is identified as a typeface. 
> 
>> Arial is a typeface. Arial Bold is a typeface. Aria Italic is a typeface. 
>> Arial Bold Italic is a typeface. Together (along with any other variants 
>> you want to throw in), they are a typeface family. 
> 
> So, are you saying that Apple's terminology is incorrect? 

If he does, I agree :-)
Arial Bold is one weight of the typeface Arial.

Andreas
0
ISO
10/1/2008 9:22:24 PM
TaliesinSoft wrote: 
*** I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such
as Arno Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or
"italic" or "regular" and so on. 
So, the question is, am I correct? 
---------------------------------------------

Back in the old metal type days, we called one size of a type face a
"font", several sizes of the same type face was a "series", and
different variations of the same type face (Roman, Italic, Bold, etc.)
were a "family".

Bill

0
billsrrempire
10/1/2008 9:55:54 PM
> The *modern* usage of the word font has changed with the digital era.
> You can thank (or blame it on) software (Word, Excel, Photoshop, etc.)
> that uses the term "font" to describe the typeface features for text.

Maybe we should quit using the word typography too and replace it with fontgraphy?

Jukka
0
Armadillo
10/1/2008 10:35:10 PM
Nachricht von Armadillo:
>> The *modern* usage of the word font has changed with the digital era.
>> You can thank (or blame it on) software (Word, Excel, Photoshop, etc.)
>> that uses the term "font" to describe the typeface features for text.
> 
> Maybe we should quit using the word typography too and replace it with fontgraphy?

To avoid legal issues with Pyrus? ;-)

(who own the rights to fontographer JFTR)

Andreas
0
ISO
10/2/2008 8:47:12 AM
>> Maybe we should quit using the word typography too and replace it with fontgraphy?
>
> To avoid legal issues with Pyrus? ;-)
>
> (who own the rights to fontographer JFTR)

Not eaxtly

***

Wikipedia definition of Fontography (to be added)

Fontography is the art and techniques of mutilating type, type design, type glyphs and even copyright. Type glyphs are created and modified with total absence of fontgraphic (formerly typographic) knowledge. In most cases Fontographer software is used which in most cases lead to inferior technical quality like nonexistent hinting. Best examples of Fontography can be seen in various free font sites which have a wide selection of fonts created by numerous masters of Fontography.

***

Jukka
0
Armadillo
10/2/2008 9:11:09 AM
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:56:05 -0500, TaliesinSoft wrote (in article 
<0001HW.C5086D1500031E82B01AD9AF@News.Individual.NET>): 

> Fonts and Faces, Fonts and Faces Each of them having Special Places 
> 
> (to be sung to the tune of "Love and Marriage" in the musical "Our Town"! 
> 
> I just want to anchor down the correct terminology. A "font" is such as 
> Arno Pro and a "face" is, in the context of Arno Pro, "bold" or "italic" 
> or "regular" and so on. 
> 
> So, the question is, am I correct? 


Here are some definitions extracted from "A Glossary of Typographic Terms" 
which is on the Adobe website and which can be found at  
<http://www.adobe.com/type/topics/glossary.html>. 

==================== 

font: One weight, width, and style of a typeface. Before scalable type, there 
was little distinction between the terms font, face, and family. Font and 
face still tend to be used interchangeably, although the term face is usually 
more correct. 

family: Also known as a font family. A collection of faces that were designed 
and intended to be used together. For example, the Garamond family consists 
of roman and italic styles, as well as regular, semi-bold, and bold weights. 
Each of the style and weight combinations is called a face. 

face: One of the styles of a family of faces. For example, the italic style 
of the Garamond family is a face. 

==================== 

It appears to me that, for better or for worse, the evolution of language is 
replacing the above definition of "font" with that of "family". An example of 
such is the terminology used in Font Book, the font management facility 
included with the current Macintosh operating system. 


-- 
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@me.com

0
TaliesinSoft
10/2/2008 3:06:43 PM
TaliesinSoft wrote:

> 
> So, are you saying that Apple's terminology is incorrect? 

I'm saying that when programmers got into the business of trying to put 
foundries and compositors out of business, they did their best to master 
an arcane vocabulary and they got some stuff wrong. Some of what they 
got wrong has been perpetuated and broadcast by software companies like 
Apple and Microsoft. So now usage is quite muddled, with most of world 
using terms in ways that are confusing to those of us who predate the 
digital revolution. Linguistically, time marches on. But if you want to 
be able to make clear and subtle distinctions using words, it is 
sometimes helpful to know the traditional definitions. Use whatever 
terms you want to use, of course (that's how language works), but 
understand the reason you may provoke a certain amount of confusion and 
annoyance on the part of others involved in the conversation.
0
Dick
10/2/2008 4:06:08 PM
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:06:08 -0500, Dick Margulis wrote
(in article <vZCdnQJWlp_lbHnVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@supernews.com>):

> TaliesinSoft wrote:
> 
>> 
>> So, are you saying that Apple's terminology is incorrect? 
> 
> I'm saying that when programmers got into the business of trying to put 
> foundries and compositors out of business, they did their best to master 
> an arcane vocabulary and they got some stuff wrong. Some of what they 
> got wrong has been perpetuated and broadcast by software companies like 
> Apple and Microsoft. So now usage is quite muddled, with most of world 
> using terms in ways that are confusing to those of us who predate the 
> digital revolution. Linguistically, time marches on. But if you want to 
> be able to make clear and subtle distinctions using words, it is 
> sometimes helpful to know the traditional definitions. Use whatever 
> terms you want to use, of course (that's how language works), but 
> understand the reason you may provoke a certain amount of confusion and 
> annoyance on the part of others involved in the conversation.

Nicely said! Good food for thought. Many thanks.

-- 
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@me.com

0
TaliesinSoft
10/2/2008 4:34:29 PM
>> So, are you saying that Apple's terminology is incorrect?
>
> I'm saying that when programmers got into the business of trying to put
> foundries and compositors out of business, they did their best to master
> an arcane vocabulary and they got some stuff wrong. Some of what they

And some of it not necessarily wrong but programmer like. For example current keybordlayout is of course mainly taken from typewriter but the additions and modifications as well as the basic character set is designed for programming.

Jukka 
0
Armadillo
10/2/2008 8:05:53 PM
Dick Margulis wrote:

> TaliesinSoft wrote:

>> So, are you saying that Apple's terminology is incorrect?
> 
> I'm saying that when programmers got into the business of trying to put
> foundries and compositors out of business, they did their best to master
> an arcane vocabulary and they got some stuff wrong. Some of what they
> got wrong has been perpetuated and broadcast by software companies like
> Apple and Microsoft. So now usage is quite muddled, with most of world
> using terms in ways that are confusing to those of us who predate the
> digital revolution. Linguistically, time marches on. But if you want to
> be able to make clear and subtle distinctions using words, it is
> sometimes helpful to know the traditional definitions. Use whatever
> terms you want to use, of course (that's how language works), but
> understand the reason you may provoke a certain amount of confusion and
> annoyance on the part of others involved in the conversation.

Sort of like "despair" vs. "dispair" then (yes, even though your spell
checker likely flags it, "dispair" is actually a word, signifying
separation).
_______________________________________________________________________________
                      http://www.lulu.com/billsey
0
Billsey
10/4/2008 5:10:32 PM
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