Has someone created fonts with 1,2, ..5 as subscripts? I think too
many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
for example on labels in Visual Basic.

If not, how does one edit an existing font (not true type), so that
only a few characters are created/modified?

Thanks.

nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
> Has someone created fonts with 1,2, ..5 as subscripts? I think too
> many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
> for example on labels in Visual Basic.
> 
> If not, how does one edit an existing font (not true type), so that
> only a few characters are created/modified?
> 
> Thanks.

Yes, of course there are fonts with subscripts. There always have been. 
But let's back up a bit and see what you're trying to accomplish.

You say you are creating "labels in Visual Basic." I'm not certain what 
you mean by that, but I would guess that you are using VB to write HTML 
to a browser, right? Or are you writing a Word macro? Or what?

The context in which you are working controls your access to fonts. For 
example, if you are writing HTML, you are dependent on the fonts 
available on the machine where the browser is rendering the page. If you 
are writing Word macros for your own machine, you have access to all the 
fonts installed on your machine.

There are two approaches to rendering subscripts.

In most applications there is a way to create a subscript simply by 
outputting a character at a smaller point size and a lowered baseline. 
For example, in Word, you can type right along and use a keyboard 
shortcut to toggle in and out of subscript mode, without ever changing 
the font. In HTML you can either use <sub>/</sub> (which might be 
deprecated by now) or an inline style declaration.

The other approach is to use a Unicode font that has true subscript 
glyphs in a labeled range of the font. Then, if you know you have access 
to such a font, you can specify the glyph numbers in your output string. 
This is the way a typographer would approach the problem, but it may be 
fussier than you need to be for your application.

HTH

Dear Nobody

Most chemists use specific packages which do what is required.  For
instance if you are drawing diagrams which include formula try isisdraw
from www.mdl.com which is available for free, but requires registration.
Quite adequate at the undergraduate level.  

The only thing that is tricky, is when there is subscripting and
superscripting which should both be flush with one side of a letter or
the other. Then use the equation editor which comes with Word. This is 
also good for maths applications. Though not fast.  In excel
such formatting is more fussy, needing specific formating which can be
automated by macros in some instances. And, of course, macros are in
visual basic.

A book which could help you is "Advanced Excel for Scientific Data
Analysis" Robert de Levie; Oxford University Press, 2004.


>> many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
> Yes, of course there are fonts with subscripts. There always have been. 
> But let's back up a bit and see what you're trying to accomplish.
> 
 
> HTH

kind regards

Marg

In article <1244enp1d1g109a@news.supernews.com>,
Dick Margulis  <margulisd@comcast.net> wrote:
>nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
>> Has someone created fonts with 1,2, ..5 as subscripts? I think too
>> many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
>> for example on labels in Visual Basic.
>> 
>> If not, how does one edit an existing font (not true type), so that
>> only a few characters are created/modified?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>
>Yes, of course there are fonts with subscripts. There always have been. 



That is precisely what I am looking for. 




>But let's back up a bit and see what you're trying to accomplish.
>
>You say you are creating "labels in Visual Basic." I'm not certain what 
>you mean by that, but I would guess that you are using VB to write HTML 
>to a browser, right? Or are you writing a Word macro? Or what?



Just writing plain text on a single line (labels in VB don't allow any
subscripts, superscripts or changing fonts in between the text). No HTML
here.



>
>The context in which you are working controls your access to fonts. For 
>example, if you are writing HTML, you are dependent on the fonts 
>available on the machine where the browser is rendering the page. If you 
>are writing Word macros for your own machine, you have access to all the 
>fonts installed on your machine.
>
>There are two approaches to rendering subscripts.
>
>In most applications there is a way to create a subscript simply by 
>outputting a character at a smaller point size and a lowered baseline. 
>For example, in Word, you can type right along and use a keyboard 
>shortcut to toggle in and out of subscript mode, without ever changing 
>the font. In HTML you can either use <sub>/</sub> (which might be 
>deprecated by now) or an inline style declaration.


Even in VB I can create two labels and write one below another, but
that is besides the point. A label in VB can only take plain text and
display it in one selected font.



>
>The other approach is to use a Unicode font that has true subscript 
>glyphs in a labeled range of the font. Then, if you know you have access 
>to such a font, you can specify the glyph numbers in your output string. 
>This is the way a typographer would approach the problem, but it may be 
>fussier than you need to be for your application.
>
>HTH



Is there such a Unicode font? In VB, I would have the possibility to
access such special characters with Chr(179) for example.

In article <pan.2006.04.16.13.20.25.334268@NOSPAMMswiftdsl.com.au>,
Marg  <marg_w@NOSPAMMswiftdsl.com.au> wrote:
>
>Dear Nobody
>
>Most chemists use specific packages which do what is required.  For
>instance if you are drawing diagrams which include formula try isisdraw
>from www.mdl.com which is available for free, but requires registration.
>Quite adequate at the undergraduate level.  

And at the kindergarten level? Sorry, either I have not made myself
clear or people are thinking at their own levels..

It is possible to write superscripts 1, 2 and 3 in plain text (without
changing fonts) because they are defined in most fonts. See the
character map, and you will find them. In Visual Basic, you cannot
write different parts of a "label" in different fonts or sizes or
subscripts, which means you can write only plain text - whatever is
available in a single font. Therefore, if I wish to write H2O, I need
a font which has "2" in smaller size below the normal text level, just
as there is a "2" in smaller size, above the text level. I can define
another label and write 2 on the second label below in a smaller font
size, but this solution is not practical.

>
>The only thing that is tricky, is when there is subscripting and
>superscripting which should both be flush with one side of a letter or
>the other. Then use the equation editor which comes with Word. This is 
>also good for maths applications. Though not fast.  In excel
>such formatting is more fussy, needing specific formating which can be
>automated by macros in some instances. And, of course, macros are in
>visual basic.
>
>A book which could help you is "Advanced Excel for Scientific Data
>Analysis" Robert de Levie; Oxford University Press, 2004.
>

Thanks for your intention to help.

>
>>> many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
>> Yes, of course there are fonts with subscripts. There always have been. 
>> But let's back up a bit and see what you're trying to accomplish.
>> 
> 
>> HTH
>
>kind regards
>
>Marg

nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:

> In article <1244enp1d1g109a@news.supernews.com>,
> Dick Margulis  <margulisd@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>>nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
>>
>>>Has someone created fonts with 1,2, ..5 as subscripts? I think too
>>>many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
>>>for example on labels in Visual Basic.
>>>
>>>If not, how does one edit an existing font (not true type), so that
>>>only a few characters are created/modified?
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>
>>Yes, of course there are fonts with subscripts. There always have been. 

> That is precisely what I am looking for. 

A couple here:
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/pt/shared/ChemFonts/

Googling for Chemistry Fonts will find many more.  I know that there's 
even one with a set of characters that are both a superscript and 
subscript so you can form things like


    3
   H O
    2

but I don't know which one it is.

On 17 Apr 2006 15:21:03 +0300, nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
>
> Is there such a Unicode font? In VB, I would have the possibility to
> access such special characters with Chr(179) for example.

This is the Unicode range U+2080 to U+2089 in fonts such as Arial
Unicode MS.  As for whether VB can access characters beyond 255, ...

In article <dVL0g.154376$nk.3608@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
Character  <Char@cter.drop.cap> wrote:
>nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
>
>> In article <1244enp1d1g109a@news.supernews.com>,
>> Dick Margulis  <margulisd@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
>>>
>>>>Has someone created fonts with 1,2, ..5 as subscripts? I think too
>>>>many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
>>>>for example on labels in Visual Basic.
>>>>
>>>>If not, how does one edit an existing font (not true type), so that
>>>>only a few characters are created/modified?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>Yes, of course there are fonts with subscripts. There always have been. 
>
>> That is precisely what I am looking for. 
>
>A couple here:
>http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/pt/shared/ChemFonts/
>

Thanks. This is precisely what I think I need.




>Googling for Chemistry Fonts will find many more.  I know that there's 
>even one with a set of characters that are both a superscript and 
>subscript so you can form things like

Thanks for this too. One can google away a night or two and not find
the right stuff until someone tells you the right keywords to look
for.. "Chemistry Fonts" gives 212 hits.






















..

In article <dVL0g.154376$nk.3608@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
Character  <Char@cter.drop.cap> wrote:

>
>A couple here:
>http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/pt/shared/ChemFonts/
>
>Googling for Chemistry Fonts will find many more.  I know that there's 
>even one with a set of characters that are both a superscript and 
>subscript so you can form things like

I found the Serif and Sans Serif versions of the ChemFont97 there. I
can use them in VB, but they looked ugly on the screen as well as when
printed.

I would like to have something like MS Sans Serif (the default in
Visual Basic), with the subscripts. Any idea if I will find it
somewhere? Or is it easy to take MS Sans Serif and change a few
characters in some font editor?

Thanks.

nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:

> It is possible to write superscripts 1, 2 and 3 in plain text (without
> changing fonts) because they are defined in most fonts.

Indeed, but you run into problems as soon as you try to add any other 
superscript, or any subscript.

> In Visual Basic, you cannot
> write different parts of a "label" in different fonts or sizes or
> subscripts, which means you can write only plain text 

This implies essential limitations, which can be overcome just partially by 
using superscript or subscript characters. Are you sure there is no 
alternative approach that would let you use "rich text" (in some sense)?

Anyway, subscript digits are available in few fonts. No definitive list can 
be composed, since nobody really knows all the fonts around, and a font name 
may refer to fonts that differ in their character repertoire. But there is 
_a_ list at
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2081/fontsupport.htm
It does not include Arial Unicode MS - which is a good example of the 
variation. Some versions (generally, older versions) of Arial Unicode MS do 
not contain subscript digits; some versions do.

If you are designing a program for use in one particular computer only, it's 
simplest to check whether it has Arial Unicode MS containing the superscript 
digits. If not, it's probably simplest to download and install Code2000.

Followups trimmed.

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:13:49 -0600, Identity Number Forty-Eight
<identity@number.48> wrote:

>On 17 Apr 2006 15:21:03 +0300, nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
>>
>> Is there such a Unicode font? In VB, I would have the possibility to
>> access such special characters with Chr(179) for example.
>
>This is the Unicode range U+2080 to U+2089 in fonts such as Arial
>Unicode MS.  As for whether VB can access characters beyond 255, ...

The Chr version uses the active code page of the current thread;
 the ChrW function always uses the general Unicode character set.

See in .NET

nobody@spam.here.asdf wrote:
> Has someone created fonts with 1,2, ..5 as subscripts? I think too
> many people in chemistry need this. It looks stupid to write H2O,
> for example on labels in Visual Basic.

Yes, such fonts exist, but probably not in the way that you expect
them.  You probably want the subscripts in place of regular numbers or
other readily-typeable characters.  (Actually, it's a big world,
someone's probably done that -- but that's not the "correct" way to do
it.)  Do you know if labels and other controls in VB support Unicode?
Because this is what's necessary to do it right.  There are codepoints
in Unicode defined for superscript and subscript numerals (primarily
for building fractions, but they should work for chemical symbols too)
and some of the newer, professionally-made fonts (such as Tahoma or
Arial Unicode MS) contain such glyphs.  You'll likely also want a
well-hinted font, but this is also true of the newer,
professionally-made fonts.  Most amateur fonts aren't likely to have
superscripts and subscripts mapped properly (or at all) and aren't
likely to be hinted well enough to be used on controls such as labels.


--
Vid the Kid