.... and this seems to be a better place to discuss them than the lame 
Adobe Forums...

1. XML import

Anybody used this yet to import the XML output of, say, AuthorIT or 
Word? I sure can't figure out how to make this work, and I've read all 
the Adobe doc on it, consulted with XML professionals, and pulled out 
hair I can't afford to lose.


2. Tables

Okay, sure, PageMaker never had a working table editor; so ID's is much 
better than nothing. Still, doncha think it should be at least as good 
as Interleaf's was in 1993? There is no way to define a style for a 
cell, row, or table so that you can simply create an instance and dump 
in the content. You can't even use the eyedropper to copy the attributes 
of one table to another.

Anyone from Adobe ever see this stuff?<grumble />

Seriously, though, if you guys have any insight on either of the above 
issues, lemme know.

Thx,

Dick

Dick Margulis wrote:

> ... and this seems to be a better place to discuss them than the lame 
> Adobe Forums...

Sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. This place gets more spam that 
actual posts. The U2U forums have some of the top experts in the world 
incluing Adobe engineers and authors.

If you don't like the web interface (and I for one hate it) you can 
access the forums via newsreader. You'll need to register, but once you 
have user name and password you can point your newsreader at 
adobeforums.com.

You migh also try the Omnipilot email list. You can subscribe at 
http://www.listsearch.com/InDesignTalk.lasso?tab1=about&tab2=lists

Check out www.indesignsecrets.com for some great stuff including podcasts.

> 1. XML import
> 
> Anybody used this yet to import the XML output of, say, AuthorIT or 
> Word? I sure can't figure out how to make this work, and I've read all 
> the Adobe doc on it, consulted with XML professionals, and pulled out 
> hair I can't afford to lose.
>

Not me. Sorry.

> 
> 2. Tables
> 
> Okay, sure, PageMaker never had a working table editor; so ID's is much 
> better than nothing. Still, doncha think it should be at least as good 
> as Interleaf's was in 1993? There is no way to define a style for a 
> cell, row, or table so that you can simply create an instance and dump 
> in the content. You can't even use the eyedropper to copy the attributes 
> of one table to another.

Check out www.teacupsoftware.com for tablestyles and cellstyles plugins. 
Yes you have to pay for them. Yes, they're worth it.

Don't want to spend money? Try saving your table as a library object.

> Anyone from Adobe ever see this stuff?<grumble />

Not here, but I can assure you the Adobe engineers are quite concerned 
about giving the users the features they want and need. I strongly 
encourage you to check out the above resources.

Bob

Bob Levine wrote:
> Dick Margulis wrote:
> 
>> ... and this seems to be a better place to discuss them than the lame 
>> Adobe Forums...
> 
> Sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. This place gets more spam that 
> actual posts. The U2U forums have some of the top experts in the world 
> incluing Adobe engineers and authors.
> 
> If you don't like the web interface (and I for one hate it) you can 
> access the forums via newsreader. You'll need to register, but once you 
> have user name and password you can point your newsreader at 
> adobeforums.com.

Bob,

Part of my objection is the interface, and I thank you for the 
newsreader link. The other part is that, before I posted here, I 
searched the forums for both of the issues I raised and I didn't find 
anything even remotely close. The few posts I found that were 
tangentially related were questions from a while back that nobody 
answered. My grumble about lameness was about that response factor more 
than the interface.

> 
> You migh also try the Omnipilot email list. You can subscribe at 
> http://www.listsearch.com/InDesignTalk.lasso?tab1=about&tab2=lists
> 
> Check out www.indesignsecrets.com for some great stuff including podcasts.

Okay, I'll look at those resources, too. Thanks.


> 
>> 1. XML import
>>
>> Anybody used this yet to import the XML output of, say, AuthorIT or 
>> Word? I sure can't figure out how to make this work, and I've read all 
>> the Adobe doc on it, consulted with XML professionals, and pulled out 
>> hair I can't afford to lose.
>>
> 
> Not me. Sorry.
> 
>>
>> 2. Tables
>>
>> Okay, sure, PageMaker never had a working table editor; so ID's is 
>> much better than nothing. Still, doncha think it should be at least as 
>> good as Interleaf's was in 1993? There is no way to define a style for 
>> a cell, row, or table so that you can simply create an instance and 
>> dump in the content. You can't even use the eyedropper to copy the 
>> attributes of one table to another.
> 
> Check out www.teacupsoftware.com for tablestyles and cellstyles plugins. 
> Yes you have to pay for them. Yes, they're worth it.
> 
> Don't want to spend money? Try saving your table as a library object.

I'll look at both options. I don't mind paying something for that 
feature, although I still think it's a pretty basic requirement that 
ought to have been built into the product.


> 
>> Anyone from Adobe ever see this stuff?<grumble />
> 
> Not here, but I can assure you the Adobe engineers are quite concerned 
> about giving the users the features they want and need. I strongly 
> encourage you to check out the above resources.

I will, but I trust my friends here, present company included, more than 
I trust Adobe engineers.

> 
> Bob

Thanks,

Dick

Dick Margulis wrote:


> Bob,
> 
> Part of my objection is the interface, and I thank you for the 
> newsreader link. The other part is that, before I posted here, I 
> searched the forums for both of the issues I raised and I didn't find 
> anything even remotely close. The few posts I found that were 
> tangentially related were questions from a while back that nobody 
> answered. My grumble about lameness was about that response factor more 
> than the interface.

I have to admit that the search feature is less than stellar, but I 
don't understand your reluctance to simply post something. If you 
searched and couldn't find it, state that at the start of the post.

One request...If you're going to use a newsreader on the U2U forums, 
please kill the autoquote. It makes a mess of the web interface and 
drives people crazy.

It's a "when in Rome..." thing.


>> Check out www.teacupsoftware.com for tablestyles and cellstyles 
>> plugins. Yes you have to pay for them. Yes, they're worth it.
>>
>> Don't want to spend money? Try saving your table as a library object.
> 
> 
> I'll look at both options. I don't mind paying something for that 
> feature, although I still think it's a pretty basic requirement that 
> ought to have been built into the product.

The program is improved dramatically with each new release. Table styles 
is requested quite a bit. You might want to add your voice here:

http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html

Bob

Bob Levine wrote:
> Dick Margulis wrote:
> 
> 
>> Bob,
>>
>> Part of my objection is the interface, and I thank you for the 
>> newsreader link. The other part is that, before I posted here, I 
>> searched the forums for both of the issues I raised and I didn't find 
>> anything even remotely close. The few posts I found that were 
>> tangentially related were questions from a while back that nobody 
>> answered. My grumble about lameness was about that response factor 
>> more than the interface.
> 
> I have to admit that the search feature is less than stellar, but I 
> don't understand your reluctance to simply post something. If you 
> searched and couldn't find it, state that at the start of the post.
> 
> One request...If you're going to use a newsreader on the U2U forums, 
> please kill the autoquote. It makes a mess of the web interface and 
> drives people crazy.
> 
> It's a "when in Rome..." thing.

Thanks for that. I wouldn't have thought of it.

> 
> 
>>> Check out www.teacupsoftware.com for tablestyles and cellstyles 
>>> plugins. Yes you have to pay for them. Yes, they're worth it.
>>>
>>> Don't want to spend money? Try saving your table as a library object.
>>
>>
>> I'll look at both options. I don't mind paying something for that 
>> feature, although I still think it's a pretty basic requirement that 
>> ought to have been built into the product.

Well, I downloaded the trial of the basic version. Table cell styles do 
not capture vertical inset values, as near as I can tell. So you're left 
with applying them manually or just eyeballing it. Unless I'm missing 
something. There's also the weirdness with losing the header row.


> 
> The program is improved dramatically with each new release. Table styles 
> is requested quite a bit. You might want to add your voice here:
> 
> http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html

Just did. But I used to request features with PageMaker, too, to no 
avail. Good place to start, though.

Dick Margulis wrote:

Cell insets are a cell attribute. See the cell styles palette.

If you have a comment on the plugins, send an email to 
support@teacupsoftware.com. They're very responsive.

> Just did. But I used to request features with PageMaker, too, to no 
> avail. Good place to start, though.

PM was a deadend when Adobe bought it. InDesign is really just a 
collection of plugins. Makes features very easy to add or for third 
party developers.

CS3 is due sometime in the second quarter of next year. Stay tuned.

Bob

In article <XSN_g.1116$GJ.472@trnddc07>, Bob Levine
<robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dick Margulis wrote:
> 
> > ... and this seems to be a better place to discuss them than the lame 
> > Adobe Forums...
> 
> Sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. This place gets more spam that 
> actual posts. The U2U forums have some of the top experts in the world 
> incluing Adobe engineers and authors.
<snip>

I can't say I've seen much (if any) spam in here at all. There are
fewer and fewer messages as more people stop using PageMaker though.

The problem with a couple of those so-called "experts" is that they
tend to be obnoxious "know-it-all" types who apparently like to try to
make you feel or look stupid rather than actually help. I've been there
three or four times (under different names) and been put off bothering
to go again, unless I *really* *really* have to.  :o(




> > 2. Tables
> > Okay, sure, PageMaker never had a working table editor; so ID's is much 
> > better than nothing. Still, doncha think it should be at least as good 
> > as Interleaf's was in 1993? There is no way to define a style for a 
> > cell, row, or table so that you can simply create an instance and dump 
> > in the content. You can't even use the eyedropper to copy the attributes 
> > of one table to another.

I'm only using InDesign 2 and haven't really looked at tables yet, but
I'll probably do what I did with PageMaker - have a "library" file that
contains pages of ready-made tables I can simply copy and paste across
to another document whenever needed.

Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

Helpful Harry wrote:
> In article <XSN_g.1116$GJ.472@trnddc07>, Bob Levine
> <robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Dick Margulis wrote:
>>
>>
>>>... and this seems to be a better place to discuss them than the lame 
>>>Adobe Forums...
>>
>>Sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. This place gets more spam that 
>>actual posts. The U2U forums have some of the top experts in the world 
>>incluing Adobe engineers and authors.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I can't say I've seen much (if any) spam in here at all. There are
> fewer and fewer messages as more people stop using PageMaker though.
> 
> The problem with a couple of those so-called "experts" is that they
> tend to be obnoxious "know-it-all" types who apparently like to try to
> make you feel or look stupid rather than actually help. I've been there
> three or four times (under different names) and been put off bothering
> to go again, unless I *really* *really* have to.  :o(

With your attitude, I don't doubt it. I specifically remember asking you 
nicely to kill the autoquotes and pretty much being told to shove it.

You get what you give.

Bob

In article <3Q2%g.80292$073.70649@trnddc01>, Bob Levine
<robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

> Helpful Harry wrote:
> > In article <XSN_g.1116$GJ.472@trnddc07>, Bob Levine
> > <robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Dick Margulis wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>... and this seems to be a better place to discuss them than the lame 
> >>>Adobe Forums...
> >>
> >>Sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. This place gets more spam that 
> >>actual posts. The U2U forums have some of the top experts in the world 
> >>incluing Adobe engineers and authors.
> > 
> > <snip>
> > 
> > I can't say I've seen much (if any) spam in here at all. There are
> > fewer and fewer messages as more people stop using PageMaker though.
> > 
> > The problem with a couple of those so-called "experts" is that they
> > tend to be obnoxious "know-it-all" types who apparently like to try to
> > make you feel or look stupid rather than actually help. I've been there
> > three or four times (under different names) and been put off bothering
> > to go again, unless I *really* *really* have to.  :o(
> 
> With your attitude, I don't doubt it. I specifically remember asking you 
> nicely to kill the autoquotes and pretty much being told to shove it.
> 
> You get what you give.

If one fool's answer to everything was not basically "don't use
'RageMaker', but InDesign", then maybe I might have wanted to stay for
more than half-a-dozen messages and therefore try to find some
workaround for ONE newsgroup out of the 100+ I subscribe to not wanting
quotes of previous messages.

An idiot like that in most newsgroups and forums would either be
killfiled, labelled a troll and / or banned. For example, if I went
into a Star Trek froum and answered questions with "Star Drek sux,
watch the new Battlestar Galactica instead."

I simply have no wish to have to deal with such idiots. As usual, it's
a few idiots that spoil it.

There's also no real reason that there can't be a InDesign and other
Adobe newsgroup in the Usenet listings, even Microsoft has lots of
them.


Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

Helpful Harry wrote:


> If one fool's answer to everything was not basically "don't use
> 'RageMaker', but InDesign", then maybe I might have wanted to stay for
> more than half-a-dozen messages and therefore try to find some
> workaround for ONE newsgroup out of the 100+ I subscribe to not wanting
> quotes of previous messages.

You're obviously one of the minions of PM users that are still upset 
that Adobe abandoned the program. Why you don't understand that it was 
Aldus that realized that new program was the only way to move ahead is 
mind bongling to me.

If Adobe had called InDesign PM 8, 9, CS, or CS2 would you calling those 
who recommend an upgrade fools?

If you took the time to look around the PM forums, you'd see that almost 
every post is answered by a FORMER PM user. I try to help, but the 
bottom line is that the answer is almost always that silly workarounds 
can be avoided by upgrading to InDesign.

> An idiot like that in most newsgroups and forums would either be
> killfiled, labelled a troll and / or banned. For example, if I went
> into a Star Trek froum and answered questions with "Star Drek sux,
> watch the new Battlestar Galactica instead."

Completely different.

For starters, the one post I remembered from you was in the InDesign 
forum. Remember, most ID users moved from Quark, not PM so the occassion 
Pagewrecker, RageMaker lines do pop up.

We get the occassional post from from a diehard Quark user looking to 
stir up trouble and the get labeled as trolls, idiots and worse.

> I simply have no wish to have to deal with such idiots. As usual, it's
> a few idiots that spoil it.

Again you show your ignorance and intolerance. You're so stuck in the 
past with your insistance on using software that's been dead for 10 
years and usenet instead of a web interface that you call everyone else 
  an idiot. I'm the one who asked you to remove the autoquote. I asked 
nicely twice. Stick to usenet, Harry. With your attitude, it's all 
you're cut out for.

> There's also no real reason that there can't be a InDesign and other
> Adobe newsgroup in the Usenet listings, even Microsoft has lots of
> them.

They're already there. You just need to "play by the rules." Too much 
trouble for you? Then don't go. Just like restaurants. Most of them let 
you wear whatever you want. But once in a while you just have to put on 
a jacket and tie.

Bob

In article <ipo%g.80656$073.43248@trnddc01>, Bob Levine
<robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

> Helpful Harry wrote:
> 
> > If one fool's answer to everything was not basically "don't use
> > 'RageMaker', but InDesign", then maybe I might have wanted to stay for
> > more than half-a-dozen messages and therefore try to find some
> > workaround for ONE newsgroup out of the 100+ I subscribe to not wanting
> > quotes of previous messages.
> 
> You're obviously one of the minions of PM users that are still upset 
> that Adobe abandoned the program. Why you don't understand that it was 
> Aldus that realized that new program was the only way to move ahead is 
> mind bongling to me.
> 
> If Adobe had called InDesign PM 8, 9, CS, or CS2 would you calling those 
> who recommend an upgrade fools?
> 
> If you took the time to look around the PM forums, you'd see that almost 
> every post is answered by a FORMER PM user. I try to help, but the 
> bottom line is that the answer is almost always that silly workarounds 
> can be avoided by upgrading to InDesign.

All completely irrelevant.

If someone asks a question in a PageMaker forum then they want a
PageMaker answer, not simply some idiot that tells them just to buy
InDesign ... that's NOT helping.



> > An idiot like that in most newsgroups and forums would either be
> > killfiled, labelled a troll and / or banned. For example, if I went
> > into a Star Trek froum and answered questions with "Star Drek sux,
> > watch the new Battlestar Galactica instead."
> 
> Completely different.
> 
> For starters, the one post I remembered from you was in the InDesign 
> forum. Remember, most ID users moved from Quark, not PM so the occassion 
> Pagewrecker, RageMaker lines do pop up.
> 
> We get the occassional post from from a diehard Quark user looking to 
> stir up trouble and the get labeled as trolls, idiots and worse.

It's not completely different. When you're in forum you don't go around
calling the main topic of that forum by silly names ... if you don't
like the product, you stay out of the forum for it, otherwise you ARE a
troll (at best!).

Yes, I call it "Quack Xpress", but only in here. If I went into a Quark
forum I wouldn't use that them ... common decency, common sense, common
courtesy.




> > There's also no real reason that there can't be a InDesign and other
> > Adobe newsgroup in the Usenet listings, even Microsoft has lots of
> > them.
> 
> They're already there. You just need to "play by the rules." Too much 
> trouble for you? Then don't go. Just like restaurants. Most of them let 
> you wear whatever you want. But once in a while you just have to put on 
> a jacket and tie.

No. Adobe runs their own separate forums, not proper Usenet ones. It's
anyone's guess why, but probably is at least partly to do with them
having no control over Usenet.

Most of the other big names do run proper Usenet forums - even if they
are technically run from their own servers, they interface into the
Usent structure as well.






Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

Helpful Harry wrote:

> In article <ipo%g.80656$073.43248@trnddc01>, Bob Levine
> <robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Helpful Harry wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If one fool's answer to everything was not basically "don't use
>>>'RageMaker', but InDesign", then maybe I might have wanted to stay for
>>>more than half-a-dozen messages and therefore try to find some
>>>workaround for ONE newsgroup out of the 100+ I subscribe to not wanting
>>>quotes of previous messages.
>>
>>You're obviously one of the minions of PM users that are still upset 
>>that Adobe abandoned the program. Why you don't understand that it was 
>>Aldus that realized that new program was the only way to move ahead is 
>>mind bongling to me.
>>
>>If Adobe had called InDesign PM 8, 9, CS, or CS2 would you calling those 
>>who recommend an upgrade fools?
>>
>>If you took the time to look around the PM forums, you'd see that almost 
>>every post is answered by a FORMER PM user. I try to help, but the 
>>bottom line is that the answer is almost always that silly workarounds 
>>can be avoided by upgrading to InDesign.
> 
> 
> All completely irrelevant.


No, it's not. When someone posts that they're trying to run PM 6.5 on 
WinXP that's all I need to hear. It's simply unsupported and a complete 
waste of time to troubleshoot.

When someone asks why their transparent graphic has a white background 
in PM, I'm going to tell them PM doesn't support transparency but ID 
does. Either upgrade or learn to draw clipping paths. What's that? You 
want the nice feathered edge. Sorry, no dice.

When they post about the annual report with 125 tables that need to be 
imported from Excel, I'm going to suggest InDesign. Or do you actually 
think that Adobe Table is a satisfactory tool when you have deadline 
approaching?

Sometimes upgrading isn't just the best answer, it's about the only 
answer. One of these days you're going to need a new computer. What are 
you going to do then? The new Macs won't support classic at all and 
running PM under it on the older Macs is a crapshoot, too.

I'm sure Vista will be the end of PM on the Windows side.

> If someone asks a question in a PageMaker forum then they want a
> PageMaker answer, not simply some idiot that tells them just to buy
> InDesign ... that's NOT helping.

There you go again. Anyone suggesting an upgrade is an idiot. Why is that?

  > It's not completely different. When you're in forum you don't go around
> calling the main topic of that forum by silly names ... if you don't
> like the product, you stay out of the forum for it, otherwise you ARE a
> troll (at best!).

Again, I wasn't referring to the PM forum, but the ID forum. Please pay 
attention.

> Yes, I call it "Quack Xpress", but only in here. If I went into a Quark
> forum I wouldn't use that them ... common decency, common sense, common
> courtesy.


>>>There's also no real reason that there can't be a InDesign and other
>>>Adobe newsgroup in the Usenet listings, even Microsoft has lots of
>>>them.

No reason? You sound like the people that complain that Word has a 
feature and so should InDesign. What makes you the authority on this? 
Who cares what MS uses for support? Adobe has chosen a web interface 
that has a mirrored NNTP access. So what's the problem?

Bob

Helpful Harry wrote:

> 
> If someone asks a question in a PageMaker forum then they want a
> PageMaker answer, not simply some idiot that tells them just to buy
> InDesign ... that's NOT helping.
> 
> 
> 

If It helps you do something faster and more efficiently, then yes it is 
help. Indesign may be expensive, but I found that the increase in 
efficiency was well worth it. Frankly there are many things that ID can 
do that are impractical or impossible in PM


The forums are run from a web server, because many users of adobe 
software (all adobe software) don't know how to use Usenet, and there 
are features available on the web that are not available on Usenet. I'm 
one of the few people who use a newsreader. If you want a really bad 
newsreader experience, try the Macromedia forums.
Jay

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <civ%g.80681$073.56099@trnddc01>, Bob Levine
<robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

> Helpful Harry wrote:
> 
> > In article <ipo%g.80656$073.43248@trnddc01>, Bob Levine
> > <robjlevin@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>Helpful Harry wrote:
> >>
> >>>If one fool's answer to everything was not basically "don't use
> >>>'RageMaker', but InDesign", then maybe I might have wanted to stay for
> >>>more than half-a-dozen messages and therefore try to find some
> >>>workaround for ONE newsgroup out of the 100+ I subscribe to not wanting
> >>>quotes of previous messages.
> >>
> >>You're obviously one of the minions of PM users that are still upset 
> >>that Adobe abandoned the program. Why you don't understand that it was 
> >>Aldus that realized that new program was the only way to move ahead is 
> >>mind bongling to me.
> >>
> >>If Adobe had called InDesign PM 8, 9, CS, or CS2 would you calling those 
> >>who recommend an upgrade fools?
> >>
> >>If you took the time to look around the PM forums, you'd see that almost 
> >>every post is answered by a FORMER PM user. I try to help, but the 
> >>bottom line is that the answer is almost always that silly workarounds 
> >>can be avoided by upgrading to InDesign.
> > 
> > All completely irrelevant.
> 
> No, it's not. When someone posts that they're trying to run PM 6.5 on 
> WinXP that's all I need to hear. It's simply unsupported and a complete 
> waste of time to troubleshoot.
> 
> When someone asks why their transparent graphic has a white background 
> in PM, I'm going to tell them PM doesn't support transparency but ID 
> does. Either upgrade or learn to draw clipping paths. What's that? You 
> want the nice feathered edge. Sorry, no dice.
> 
> When they post about the annual report with 125 tables that need to be 
> imported from Excel, I'm going to suggest InDesign. Or do you actually 
> think that Adobe Table is a satisfactory tool when you have deadline 
> approaching?
> 
> Sometimes upgrading isn't just the best answer, it's about the only 
> answer. One of these days you're going to need a new computer. What are 
> you going to do then? The new Macs won't support classic at all and 
> running PM under it on the older Macs is a crapshoot, too.
> 
> I'm sure Vista will be the end of PM on the Windows side.
> 
> > If someone asks a question in a PageMaker forum then they want a
> > PageMaker answer, not simply some idiot that tells them just to buy
> > InDesign ... that's NOT helping.
> 
> There you go again. Anyone suggesting an upgrade is an idiot. Why is that?

Anyone answering a question about PageMaker with the ONLY answer of
"just upgrade" while also calling the product silly names within it's
own forum / newsgroup *IS* an idiot. 

The original person wants help, not a sales pitch. If something can't
be done in PageMaker, then by all means suggest InDesign as ONE
alternative alongside other possible workarounds.



> > It's not completely different. When you're in forum you don't go around
> > calling the main topic of that forum by silly names ... if you don't
> > like the product, you stay out of the forum for it, otherwise you ARE a
> > troll (at best!).
> 
> Again, I wasn't referring to the PM forum, but the ID forum. Please pay 
> attention.

Yes, and *I* was referring to the PAGEMAKER forum all along, but you
keep swapping to the InDesign one ... and I'm the one not paying
attention?? Geez. :o\



> > Yes, I call it "Quack Xpress", but only in here. If I went into a Quark
> > forum I wouldn't use that them ... common decency, common sense, common
> > courtesy.
> 
> 
> >>>There's also no real reason that there can't be a InDesign and other
> >>>Adobe newsgroup in the Usenet listings, even Microsoft has lots of
> >>>them.
> 
> No reason? You sound like the people that complain that Word has a 
> feature and so should InDesign. What makes you the authority on this? 
> Who cares what MS uses for support? Adobe has chosen a web interface 
> that has a mirrored NNTP access. So what's the problem?

NNTP access is not the same as a *Usenet* Newsgroup, which is what I've
been talking about all along. Adobe run their own forum probably so
that they can keep control of it, whereas many other big companies
provide proper Usenet Newsgroups, or at least push their newsgroups out
into Usenet as well.

There's exactly ONE Adobe newsgroup in Usenet: alt.com.apps.adobe.

There's 1370 newsgroups for Microsoft products (I don't know how many
are actually run by Microsoft themselves), 185 newsgroups for
Macromedia products, etc.



Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

In article <453e748e$0$19655$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, jay Chevako
<"none of your business"@Pissof.net> wrote:

> Helpful Harry wrote:
> > 
> > If someone asks a question in a PageMaker forum then they want a
> > PageMaker answer, not simply some idiot that tells them just to buy
> > InDesign ... that's NOT helping.
> 
> If It helps you do something faster and more efficiently, then yes it is 
> help. Indesign may be expensive, but I found that the increase in 
> efficiency was well worth it. Frankly there are many things that ID can 
> do that are impractical or impossible in PM

But telling people to simply buy InDesign is not helping anything. Not
everyone can afford to waste money upgrading every time a new product
comes out. They may well be using PageMaker because they can't buy
InDesign or they're using PageMaker and need the document done quickly
.... in both cases, helping them means supplying a workaround that they
can use NOW, not something they can do weeks / months / years later.

Buying InDesign may be ONE answer, but there is usually others as well.
Some idito that simply spouts buying InDesign as the sole answer to
everything is not helping anyone, and constantly calling it RageMaker
in the products own forum simply proves how big of an unhelpful idiot
he really is and shouldn't actually be in that forum.



> The forums are run from a web server, because many users of adobe 
> software (all adobe software) don't know how to use Usenet, and there 
> are features available on the web that are not available on Usenet. I'm 
> one of the few people who use a newsreader. If you want a really bad 
> newsreader experience, try the Macromedia forums.

If you want a REALLY bad newsgroup experience, try alt.tv.the-bill (a
UK police soap / drama). It's chock-full of moronic little perverts
whose sole topic of discussion is the female stars' breasts and
bottoms.   :o(





Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

It's all beside the point anyway. The point, as I said, that I didn't
bother trying to figure out how to stop my software quoting previous
messages for that ONE forum out of the hundreds I read was because it
wasn't worth wasting time for half-a-dozen posts - I knew I wasn't
staying there because a couple of people were utter idiots (in my
opinion) a completely put me off bothering to visit there again.

If you don't think they are idiots, well good luck to you - your own
opinion is as valid to you as mine is to me.

Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)