I ahve some old files I need to read. They are all in P65 format (PageMaker
6.5 I believe)
How do I convert them or open them to read without having to buy  and
install PageMaker?
It's only a few files and I hope I don't have to pay $50.00 to buy a
converter.
All help appreciated
Caremen

In article <az4Ld.6649$IW4.142104@news2.e.nsc.no>,
 "Heather Bernstein" <HB_1234BM@AOL.com> wrote:

> I ahve some old files I need to read. They are all in P65 format (PageMaker
> 6.5 I believe)
> How do I convert them or open them to read without having to buy  and
> install PageMaker?
> It's only a few files and I hope I don't have to pay $50.00 to buy a
> converter.
> All help appreciated
> Caremen

The only things that will read PageMaker files is PageMaker itself as 
well as Adobe InDesign.

Get thee to a Kinko's or similar and rent a machine for a few bucks.  
Open the files and make PDFs out of them.

In article <elmop-8B940A.08324230012005@text.usenetserver.com>, "Elmo
P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

> In article <az4Ld.6649$IW4.142104@news2.e.nsc.no>,
>  "Heather Bernstein" <HB_1234BM@AOL.com> wrote:
> 
> > I ahve some old files I need to read. They are all in P65 format (PageMaker
> > 6.5 I believe)
> > How do I convert them or open them to read without having to buy  and
> > install PageMaker?
> > It's only a few files and I hope I don't have to pay $50.00 to buy a
> > converter.
> > All help appreciated
> > Caremen
> 
> The only things that will read PageMaker files is PageMaker itself as
> well as Adobe InDesign.

Does InDesign open older PageMaker documents?? I've only ever tried
PageMaker 7 documents which works fairly well - the only problem seems
to usually be line spacing / leading changes causing text boxes to
overflow the area they took up in PageMaker, so a little playing is
required to get them back to looking 100%.

Of course, InDesign is around US$700. It's cheaper if you're in
education, but still above that $50. Adobe no longer lists a retail
price for PageMaker 7 (because they've basically killed off the
product).


> Get thee to a Kinko's or similar and rent a machine for a few bucks.�
> Open the files and make PDFs out of them.

Another way would be a second-hand copy of PageMaker from eBay or
similar.

You might also be to download the demo version of PageMaker or InDesign
from Adobe's website, but I'm not sure what limitations the demo has
(it could just be time-limited, or it may be print / save disabled).
http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jsp




Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

Helpful Harry wrote:


> Does InDesign open older PageMaker documents?? I've only ever tried
> PageMaker 7 documents which works fairly well - the only problem seems
> to usually be line spacing / leading changes causing text boxes to
> overflow the area they took up in PageMaker, so a little playing is
> required to get them back to looking 100%.

ID CS will open PM 6.5 and 7.0. If you have the PM plugin pack it adds 
6.0 compatibiliyt.

> Of course, InDesign is around US$700. It's cheaper if you're in
> education, but still above that $50. Adobe no longer lists a retail
> price for PageMaker 7 (because they've basically killed off the
> product).

If you have a PM license you can buy ID for $299.00. $349.00 for the PM 
edition.

> You might also be to download the demo version of PageMaker or InDesign
> from Adobe's website, but I'm not sure what limitations the demo has
> (it could just be time-limited, or it may be print / save disabled).
> http://www.adobe.com/products/tryadobe/main.jsp


Adobe demos are fully functional for 30 days.

Bob

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:11:08 +1300, Helpful Harry
<helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:

>Does InDesign open older PageMaker documents?? I've only ever tried
>PageMaker 7 documents which works fairly well - the only problem seems
>to usually be line spacing / leading changes causing text boxes to
>overflow the area they took up in PageMaker, so a little playing is
>required to get them back to looking 100%.
>
Do these erratic repours in 6.5 --> IndyCS occur even *with* the
PageMaker Migration Pack? I'm asking because my client is migrating to
CS from 6.5 and I want to gauge how much redesign I will have to do in
addition to learning the program.

I want it primarily for its vastly improved tabling controls, as 90%
of my work is financial tables over multiple pages with evilness like
some columns flush left beside wordy descriptions centered in the
column. Nightmarish in 6.5.

R.

In article <bi0rv0plcui2rr0nnkj1h5ptnf8tbi4ed9@4ax.com>, rhys
<rhys@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:11:08 +1300, Helpful Harry
> <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:
> 
> >Does InDesign open older PageMaker documents?? I've only ever tried
> >PageMaker 7 documents which works fairly well - the only problem seems
> >to usually be line spacing / leading changes causing text boxes to
> >overflow the area they took up in PageMaker, so a little playing is
> >required to get them back to looking 100%.
> 
> Do these erratic repours in 6.5 --> IndyCS occur even *with* the
> PageMaker Migration Pack? I'm asking because my client is migrating to
> CS from 6.5 and I want to gauge how much redesign I will have to do in
> addition to learning the program.

I'm playing with InDesign 2, so I haven't got the Migration Pack or
InDesign CS, but I'd guess that it probably does still reflow the text
slightly. I think it's caused by differences in the way PageMaker and
InDesign do font handling, leading / line spacing and kerning, etc.



> I want it primarily for its vastly improved tabling controls, as 90%
> of my work is financial tables over multiple pages with evilness like
> some columns flush left beside wordy descriptions centered in the
> column. Nightmarish in 6.5.

It depends how you're doing your tables, but setting up a special Style
can help get the text into the correct positions.



Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

rhys wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:11:08 +1300, Helpful Harry
> <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Does InDesign open older PageMaker documents?? I've only ever tried
>>PageMaker 7 documents which works fairly well - the only problem seems
>>to usually be line spacing / leading changes causing text boxes to
>>overflow the area they took up in PageMaker, so a little playing is
>>required to get them back to looking 100%.
>>
> 
> Do these erratic repours in 6.5 --> IndyCS occur even *with* the
> PageMaker Migration Pack? I'm asking because my client is migrating to
> CS from 6.5 and I want to gauge how much redesign I will have to do in
> addition to learning the program.

The text reflow issues are identical with or without the PM plugins.

Bob

> I want it primarily for its vastly improved tabling controls, as 90%
> of my work is financial tables over multiple pages with evilness like
> some columns flush left beside wordy descriptions centered in the
> column. Nightmarish in 6.5.
> 
> R.

"Bob Levine" <robjlevin.nospan@netscape.net> wrote in message 
news:C9hLd.513$ya6.334@trndny01...
> rhys wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:11:08 +1300, Helpful Harry
>> <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Does InDesign open older PageMaker documents?? I've only ever tried
>>>PageMaker 7 documents which works fairly well - the only problem seems
>>>to usually be line spacing / leading changes causing text boxes to
>>>overflow the area they took up in PageMaker, so a little playing is
>>>required to get them back to looking 100%.
>>>
>>
>> Do these erratic repours in 6.5 --> IndyCS occur even *with* the
>> PageMaker Migration Pack? I'm asking because my client is migrating to
>> CS from 6.5 and I want to gauge how much redesign I will have to do in
>> addition to learning the program.
>
> The text reflow issues are identical with or without the PM plugins.
>
> Bob
>
>> I want it primarily for its vastly improved tabling controls, as 90%
>> of my work is financial tables over multiple pages with evilness like
>> some columns flush left beside wordy descriptions centered in the
>> column. Nightmarish in 6.5.
>>
>> R.



I'll add my $2 to this thread. I've bought many Adobe products over the 
years so all of my software is still licensed with them, including
PM. I had PM 5, then 6, 6.5. Now I have PM 7.0.2. And I only paid $75 for 
the complete program. If you had PM in the past and registered it, buy it. 
In fact, check out InDesign PageMaker Edition.I didn't pay full price, but a 
substantially discount. I'd recommend both if you can swing it.

Stu 

rhys wrote:
> 
> I want it primarily for its vastly improved tabling controls, as 90%
> of my work is financial tables over multiple pages with evilness like
> some columns flush left beside wordy descriptions centered in the
> column. Nightmarish in 6.5.
> 
> R.

Even Quark is better than Pagemaker for tables, Indesign is much better 
than Quark. The controls are a bit clunky , but miles ahead of what you 
can accomplish in Pagemaker.
Jay

Jay Chevako wrote:

> Even Quark is better than Pagemaker for tables, Indesign is much better 
> than Quark. The controls are a bit clunky , but miles ahead of what you 
> can accomplish in Pagemaker.

What would really help in InDesign is a "table styles" function, where 
you could paste cells from, say, Excel, and with one click fully format 
the table to a style in a style sheet. At the moment you can do this, 
but only with a third-party plug-in.

-- 
Cheers
Colin Wilson

In article <367la0F4scoviU1@individual.net>, Colin Wilson
<publish@kyneton.net.au> wrote:

> Even Quark is better than Pagemaker for tables, Indesign is much better 
> than Quark. The controls are a bit clunky , but miles ahead of what you 
> can accomplish in Pagemaker.

Not quite true. You're missing an important word there:

     mile ahead of what you can do QUICKLY in PageMaker.

Anything layout-wise that can be done in Xpress or InDesign can also be
done in PageMaker, although it may require some "helper applications"
for fancy things like drop shadows.


Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

Helpful Harry wrote:

> In article <367la0F4scoviU1@individual.net>, Colin Wilson
> <publish@kyneton.net.au> wrote:

>>Even Quark is better than Pagemaker for tables, Indesign is much better 
>>than Quark. The controls are a bit clunky , but miles ahead of what you 
>>can accomplish in Pagemaker.

> Not quite true. You're missing an important word there:
> 
> mile ahead of what you can do QUICKLY in PageMaker.
> 
> Anything layout-wise that can be done in Xpress or InDesign can also be
> done in PageMaker, although it may require some "helper applications"
> for fancy things like drop shadows.

For a start, you could at least attribute quotations correctly. I didn't 
say the above, Jay Chevako did.

As for "quickly", when you are doing layouts for a living, speed means 
money. Much of my work requires tables, and InDesign saves me hours over 
Pagemaker, with a much better result.

And producing a table with, for example, transparency, in Pagemaker is 
not only exceedingly slow, it's very complicated ... more than a few 
trips back and forth into Photoshop required. (And then you have to hope 
you don't need to move it!)

As for Table Styles, the Woodwing Smart Styles is actually very good. 
Just a pity it adds $US149 to the cost of InDesign.

-- 
Cheers
Colin Wilson

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:45:30 GMT, "Stuarrt B.  Henlis"
<shenlis@earthlink.net> wrote:

>I'll add my $2 to this thread. I've bought many Adobe products over the 
>years so all of my software is still licensed with them, including
>PM. I had PM 5, then 6, 6.5. Now I have PM 7.0.2. And I only paid $75 for 
>the complete program. If you had PM in the past and registered it, buy it. 
>In fact, check out InDesign PageMaker Edition.I didn't pay full price, but a 
>substantially discount. I'd recommend both if you can swing it.

My client will buy it and another licence for me. Thanks, though. And
yes, my PM versions are legal.

R.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:12:30 +1100, Colin Wilson
<publish@kyneton.net.au> wrote:

>What would really help in InDesign is a "table styles" function, where 
>you could paste cells from, say, Excel, and with one click fully format 
>the table to a style in a style sheet. At the moment you can do this, 
>but only with a third-party plug-in.

You mean WoodWing, don't you. That looks brilliant and if my client
won't buy it, I will.

R.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:21:06 -0400, Jay Chevako
<myfirst_lastname@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Even Quark is better than Pagemaker for tables, Indesign is much better 
>than Quark. The controls are a bit clunky , but miles ahead of what you 
>can accomplish in Pagemaker.
>Jay

I am painfully aware of this, thanks. I work in Quark as well, but
while it has some advantages over PM, they aren't many, and InDesign
smokes them both in "Excel"-like table controls and scripting, which
is what I am interested in, as my work including 11-15 column,
multi-page number tables with company names of greatly varying length,
greatly variable column headers and plenty of different screens and
font weights and indents to highlight data.

Like I said: nightmarish.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 02:58:42 GMT, Bob Levine
<robjlevin.nospan@netscape.net> wrote:

>The text reflow issues are identical with or without the PM plugins.
>
>Bob

Well, it's not a deal-breaker...but it's good to be aware I'll be
doing some manual fixing when I migrate table templates. Some I will
redo from scratch and we will keep PM 6.5 "active" in case archive
files need to be distilled for PDF distros.

Thanks.
R.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:04:33 +1300, Helpful Harry
<helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:

>
>Anything layout-wise that can be done in Xpress or InDesign can also be
>done in PageMaker, although it may require some "helper applications"
>for fancy things like drop shadows.

You are correct, sir. The space bar (cringe) is my faithful friend. PM
isn't awful, it's just primitive and laborious for table-construction.

Ask not for whom the line kerns, for it kerns for thee.

R.

rhys wrote:

> You mean WoodWing, don't you.

Yep, and it goes beyond Table styles.

Download it and it's fully functional for 30 days. Gives you plenty of 
time to try it before you part with your hard-earned cash.

-- 
Cheers
Colin Wilson

Colin Wilson wrote:

> As for "quickly", when you are doing layouts for a living, speed means 
> money. Much of my work requires tables, and InDesign saves me hours over 
> Pagemaker, with a much better result.

Colin Hit the nail on the head. I did my first annual report in 
pagemaker. The back end, all the tables and other financial data took me 
a little over two weeks to finish. The next report I did in quark 4.11, 
it took me about the same time, because it was the first time I ever 
used Quark, and I was learning as I went along. After that I developed a 
system and brought my production time down to about 3-4 days with qxp, 
and about the same with ID, for various reasons beyond my control I 
can't convert everything to ID yet, I'm working on it.

The thing is the clients are always pushing their deadlines, they can't 
meet the deadlines to submit their material, But we have to have the 
report printed and versions out to be edgarized (versions to the SEC) by 
a certain date, so it pushes the time I have to work the material to 
shorter and shorter time frames. If I was working in Pagemaker there 
would be no way I could accomplish this.

Pagemaker has it strengths, Tables are not one of them. Adobe Table 
should not have ever existed, It has to be the worst piece of software 
Adobe has ever released.


rhys wrote:

 > Ask not for whom the line kerns, for it kerns for thee.

Lol, but letters kern, lines track.
Jay

In article <kiktv0te3tuj8fd90tu0a8lj58ei7v0gcb@4ax.com>, rhys
<rhys@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:04:33 +1300, Helpful Harry
> <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Anything layout-wise that can be done in Xpress or InDesign can also be
> >done in PageMaker, although it may require some "helper applications"
> >for fancy things like drop shadows.
> 
> You are correct, sir. The space bar (cringe) is my faithful friend. PM
> isn't awful, it's just primitive and laborious for table-construction.

ARRRGGHHHH!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!   :oO

NEVER EVER use the space bar to create columns of text / numbers -
always use custom tab stops instead. In some fonts the characters are
different widths meaning spaces typed in after a skinny character like
l are near impossible to line up with spaces after a wide character
like o.

Besides which, using custom tabs makes it much easier to move a
particular column over slightly.


Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

In article <3680qeF4v378fU1@individual.net>, Colin Wilson
<publish@kyneton.net.au> wrote:

> Helpful Harry wrote:
> 
> > In article <367la0F4scoviU1@individual.net>, Colin Wilson
> > <publish@kyneton.net.au> wrote:
> 
> >>Even Quark is better than Pagemaker for tables, Indesign is much better 
> >>than Quark. The controls are a bit clunky , but miles ahead of what you 
> >>can accomplish in Pagemaker.
> 
> > Not quite true. You're missing an important word there:
> > 
> >        miles ahead of what you can do QUICKLY in PageMaker.
> > 
> > Anything layout-wise that can be done in Xpress or InDesign can also be
> > done in PageMaker, although it may require some "helper applications"
> > for fancy things like drop shadows.
> 
> For a start, you could at least attribute quotations correctly. I didn't 
> say the above, Jay Chevako did.

Apologies. I must have edited out the wrong line, although I'm sure I
simply hit reply.  :o\

 
> As for "quickly", when you are doing layouts for a living, speed means 
> money. Much of my work requires tables, and InDesign saves me hours over 
> Pagemaker, with a much better result.

For doing tables in PageMaker, I've ended up with a "library" document
that contains various table styles from over the years. For any new
document it's simply a matter of copy paste and change the text.  :o)

UNLESS of course it's a fancy table like ...


> And producing a table with, for example, transparency, in Pagemaker is 
> not only exceedingly slow, it's very complicated ... more than a few 
> trips back and forth into Photoshop required. (And then you have to hope 
> you don't need to move it!)

That's exactly what I said, it can be done in PageMaker, it's just
slower for some fancy things.




Helpful Harry                   
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships  ;o)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:51:52 -0400, Jay Chevako
<myfirst_lastname@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Ask not for whom the line kerns, for it kerns for thee.
>
>Lol, but letters kern, lines track.

You are correct, sir! 

I use the term "kern" for tracking due to learning how copy-edit and
pour text on an antique "Harris" system at a large newspaper in the
early '90s. Mated with 14" ATEX terminals...it wasn't a thing of
beauty. Don't ask about my usage of "widows and orphans": that's
idiosyncratic, too!

Back in The Age of Monochrome, I was told to "kern out a line" when
the printout mock-ups came back for eyeballing. This was when
rag-right vs. full justify weren't working properly. I realize that
tracking is correct for the full line: I only actually use kerning
when drop caps are too close to body text these days. Also, "kern" is
a single-meaning word..."track" is used in several senses.

In my defense, "kern" makes a better parody choice, being a
one-syllable word like "bell", which it replaces.

Poet-brain versus techie-brain...<G>

R.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:16:29 +1300, Helpful Harry
<helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote:

>ARRRGGHHHH!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!   :oO
>
>NEVER EVER use the space bar to create columns of text / numbers -
>always use custom tab stops instead. In some fonts the characters are
>different widths meaning spaces typed in after a skinny character like
>l are near impossible to line up with spaces after a wide character
>like o.

I *do* know this, but I am like the guy in this thread facing SEC
deadlines: hundreds of tables to do and not a lot of time to do it in.

My quick and dirty fix for having a centered-text column (of various
stock exchanges, for instance) in the midst of several numerical
columns (all aligned-right in PM 6.5) is to run a guide at the
eyeballed mid-point of the first entry, and then "hand-center" each
entry down the list. The rest of the table is custom tabbed. It works
to the client's satisfaction. Excel-like "cell" attributes like in
InDesign, as well as extensive use of pre-set templates ("8pt Futura
Hv/Bk on 14, seven columns, right aligned" would be typical for me) is
obviously the way to go.

I have *never* used the table editor, as it is such a piece of crap.
>
>Besides which, using custom tabs makes it much easier to move a
>particular column over slightly.

Yes, indeed. Special cases call for dubious tactics. This is mine.

R.

Kern is much more poetic!
Jay (the SEC guy)