I have discovered what I believe is a bug in Paintshop Pro 9 (version
9.01) and a workaround. I would like confirmation or an explanation of
what I'm doing wrong if this isn't a bug. I have CAREFULLY created a
scenario that is totally repeatable. The first 8 steps of this process
are just to set it up so you will know exactly what my starting
conditions for the bug are.

---------------------

1 - Opened Cliff.jpg (which will be used for background)
2 - Opened KlancyCutout.gif (which will be used as foreground)
3 - Opened Image1 as New, Raster background, 16 Million Colors (24
bit), Transparent check box not checked
4 - KlancyCutout.gif copy and pasted into Image1 as New Selection, then
deselected (Ctrl-D)
(I have determined that this step is necessary to resize
KlancyCutout.gif in the next step.)
5 - Resized Image1 (reduced size to 14 percent of what it was)
6 - Opened Image2 as New, Raster background, 16 Million Colors (24
bit), Transparent check box not checked
7 - Copy and paste Cliff.jpg into Image2 as New Selection, then
deselected (Ctrl-D)
8 - Set palette transparency of Image1 (which now contains
KlancyCutout.gif)
(Auto Action advises me that the image will be converted to 256 color -
OK clicked)

-- Here's where the difference starts --

9 - Set transparency to palette entry 92 (third radio button) using
eyedropper to select the color of the background of Image1.
(In a previous action, the entire background of KlancyCutout.gif has
been set to the same color. View Transparency confirms with
checkerboard pattern that transparency has been set.)
10 - Edit Copy Image1 and then Edit Paste into Image2 as Transparent
Selection DOES NOT result in Image1 transparent background!!!

-- Starting over at step 9 again --

9 - Set palette transparency of Image1 to No Transparency, then use
eyedropper to set background in Materials to Image1 background. Confirm
that this is palette entry 92.
10 - Set transparency to the current background color (second radio
button). Again confirm with checkerboard pattern that transparency has
been set and that it is palette entry 92.
11 - Edit Copy Image1 and then Edit Paste into Image2 as Transparent
Selection DOES result in Image1 transparent background!!!
WHY DOES IT WORK IN ONE CASE AND NOT IN THE OTHER???

Seigfried wrote:
> 
> I have discovered what I believe is a bug in Paintshop Pro 9

I don't think so.

> (version
> 9.01) and a workaround. I would like confirmation or an explanation of
> what I'm doing wrong if this isn't a bug. I have CAREFULLY created a
> scenario that is totally repeatable. The first 8 steps of this process
> are just to set it up so you will know exactly what my starting
> conditions for the bug are.
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> 1 - Opened Cliff.jpg (which will be used for background)
> 2 - Opened KlancyCutout.gif (which will be used as foreground)
> 3 - Opened Image1 as New, Raster background, 16 Million Colors (24
> bit), Transparent check box not checked
> 4 - KlancyCutout.gif copy and pasted into Image1 as New Selection, then
> deselected (Ctrl-D)
> (I have determined that this step is necessary to resize
> KlancyCutout.gif in the next step.)
> 5 - Resized Image1 (reduced size to 14 percent of what it was)
> 6 - Opened Image2 as New, Raster background, 16 Million Colors (24
> bit), Transparent check box not checked
> 7 - Copy and paste Cliff.jpg into Image2 as New Selection, then
> deselected (Ctrl-D)
> 8 - Set palette transparency of Image1 (which now contains
> KlancyCutout.gif)
> (Auto Action advises me that the image will be converted to 256 color -
> OK clicked)
> 
> -- Here's where the difference starts --
> 
> 9 - Set transparency to palette entry 92 (third radio button) using
> eyedropper to select the color of the background of Image1.
> (In a previous action, the entire background of KlancyCutout.gif has
> been set to the same color. View Transparency confirms with
> checkerboard pattern that transparency has been set.)
> 10 - Edit Copy Image1 and then Edit Paste into Image2 as Transparent
> Selection DOES NOT result in Image1 transparent background!!!

Why should it be? You haven't said what color exists in
the background swatch of the Materials palette.

> -- Starting over at step 9 again --
> 
> 9 - Set palette transparency of Image1 to No Transparency, then use
> eyedropper to set background in Materials to Image1 background. Confirm
> that this is palette entry 92.

The above is required to get the paste as transparent
selection to produce transparency.

> 10 - Set transparency to the current background color (second radio
> button). Again confirm with checkerboard pattern that transparency has
> been set and that it is palette entry 92.

This is irrelevant.

> 11 - Edit Copy Image1 and then Edit Paste into Image2 as Transparent
> Selection DOES result in Image1 transparent background!!!
> WHY DOES IT WORK IN ONE CASE AND NOT IN THE OTHER???

Palette transparency is irrelevant to what you are doing.
You have an incorrect idea about what the paste as transparent
selection command does. The Help file has this to say:

"Paste As Transparent Selection (Ctrl + Shift + E)
Use this command to remove a specific color from the
selection you are pasting. The command makes transparent
any pixels in the clipboard data that exactly match the
current background color (in the Materials palette). Then
the command pastes the contents of the clipboard as a
floating selection above the current layer.

Note: Select the background color before you paste."

Also take into account File > Preferences > Miscellaneous
tab: "Use N% tolerance to background color when pasting
a transparent selection". By default N = 10.

It is pretty straightforward. When an image color matches
(within N%) the color in the background swatch of the
Material palette, you get transparency after pasting. If
it does not, you don't.

Thanks for the reply and the information. Replies I have received on
some other forums have completely failed to read the question
carefully. I think you're at least replying to the same question I
asked.

You're right about one thing. "have an incorrect idea" about
transparencies. This problem has been bothering me for years (since PSP
5, I believe). I use PSP a lot for screenshots, but I have simply never
understood how a lot of it actually works. In particular, I have never
known that whether a clipboard paste selection matches the Materials
background color had anything to do with it.

I still don't understand exactly how this works, but with this new
explanation, I'm getting closer! I can at least make transparency work
consistently, but it still doesn't seem to work exactly as you said. In
the example I set up, Image1 DOES match the Materials background color
IN BOTH SITUATIONS. The Materials background color is always the same
and is never changed. And it always matches the color set as
transparent.

Only "Paste as Transparent Selection" works. (I just tried every
combination I can think of again.) So ... assuming that the section you
quoted about what it does is correct ... PSP thinks that the pixels in
the clipboard HAVE NOT been set as transparent when I just did that and
I was very careful about making sure that they were set to the same
color.

I have, however, figured out a sequence of actions that work
consistently for me (that's a new high for me!). It only seems to work
for me if I do this:

1 - Make sure the Materials background color matches the color I plan
to use as transparent
2 - Copy and "Paste as Transparent Selection"

It doesn't seem to matter whether I have set the image 1 transparency
or what color I have set the Image1 transparency to, except that it
does work if I select the second option which sets it to the background
color. If I use the third option and simply select the same color that
is in the Materials background color, it still doesn't work.



My problem is that when I set a color as transparent in an image, I
expect it to be transparent when I copy and paste that image. It never
is. I set a color as transparent in an image. I copy the image and
paste it into another image and it's not transparent!

In the past when I REALLY needed to do this, I have just messed around
until it worked and I have never understood what I did to get it to
work. This time, I have decided I need to get to the bottom of my
misunderstanding.

Seigfried wrote:
[snip]

> My problem is that when I set a color as transparent in an image, I
> expect it to be transparent when I copy and paste that image. It never
> is. I set a color as transparent in an image. I copy the image and
> paste it into another image and it's not transparent!

Your problem is that you *think* you are making something
transparent when you are not. Then you are surprised when
it isn't transparent after pasting. Let me try and explain
this for you. PSP supports layers with transparency. Each
pixel in such a layer is associated with its own red, green
and blue color and with a transparency. Each of these can
have one of 256 different levels. In other words, the color
and transparency of any one pixel can be varied at will
independently of any other pixel. There are 16.7 million
possible colors for a pixel and 256 possible levels of
transparency, ranging from none to complete. That is what
transparency means. Meanwhile you are working with GIF
files. GIF files work in a way incompatible with layer
transparency. In a GIF file there is a color palette
containing no more than 256 colors. Each pixel is associated
with an index into the palette. It is a single number that
points to a particular location in the palette and means
"go to this place in the palette, get the color you find
in that place, and paint all pixels having this index
with that color". One, and no more than one, of the colors
in the palette can be flagged as "transparent". It isn't
really transparent. The flag just means "do not draw this
color". It doesn't mean "do not draw this pixel" or "draw
this pixel at some transparency". It refers to not
rendering at all some color in the palette. You are
confusing this bogus transparency with real layer
transparency. They are not the same and do not work the
same. You can simplify your life by opening the GIF file
and selecting the color marked as transparent (i.e.,
"do not draw me") with the Magic Wand. Then do Layers >
Promote Background Layer answering Yes to any prompts.
Finally press the Delete key and do Selections > Select
None. Now you will have a regular layer with transparency
and transparency will work exactly as you want. By deleting
the color marked "do not draw me" you have created real
transparency from what was originally a specially marked
color.

> In the past when I REALLY needed to do this, I have just messed around
> until it worked and I have never understood what I did to get it to
> work. This time, I have decided I need to get to the bottom of my
> misunderstanding.

I hope I have now cleared up some of the mystery.

Yes, I think you did clear up a lot of the mystery. I actually knew all
about GIF transparency, but I never understood layer transparency
before. (In fact, I didn't really realize they were different things.)

I have to say that the PSP documentation (which I have read) hasn't
been able to get this concept through to me either. I think a lot of
people have this same problem of thinking that when PSP marks something
as transparent, then it should be transparent and not that it's only
transparent to PSP when it's a transparent in a layer (judging by other
message threads I have browsed trying to figure this out). They ought
to document this in the FAQ over at the new Corel site.
Thanks again. I think I'll do better with this new understanding.

Seigfried wrote:
> 
> Yes, I think you did clear up a lot of the mystery. I actually knew all
> about GIF transparency, but I never understood layer transparency
> before. (In fact, I didn't really realize they were different things.)
> 
> I have to say that the PSP documentation (which I have read) hasn't
> been able to get this concept through to me either. I think a lot of
> people have this same problem of thinking that when PSP marks something
> as transparent, then it should be transparent and not that it's only
> transparent to PSP when it's a transparent in a layer (judging by other
> message threads I have browsed trying to figure this out). They ought
> to document this in the FAQ over at the new Corel site.

I agree and I have made the same point myself to the
relevant people.

> Thanks again. I think I'll do better with this new understanding.