In hiring me as an Associate Systems Engineer, IBM had done two unusual
things. However, before I explain what they were, I need to say a bit
about the job description. In those days, there was a very strong
relationship between IBM and their customers. Other than an occasional
management call, the three categories of IBM employees with whom the
customer was in almost daily contact were the Sales Representatives
(Reps), Customer Engineers (CEs), and System Engineers (SEs).

About the Reps, I need say little, except that their commissions were
based, not only on what they sold, but also on keeping their customers
satisfied after the sale. The CEs maintained and repaired the IBM
equipment, most of which was rented, rather that purchased, and the SEs
provided technical support, both before and after the sale. In fact,
the SEs often had larger work areas at their customer's location than
they had at the IBM office.

[There were a number of jokes about the different personalities of
these disparate types. For example:

A Rep, a SE, and an CE are driving to a customer call, when the car
suddenly has a flat tire. The Rep goes to look for a phone booth, to
call for help. The SE finds the owner's manual, and searches it for a
description of the problem. And the CE starts swapping the tires
around, to determine which one has failed.]

As the price of the equipment was still very high, both technical
support and IBM software were "free" (i.e. bundled into the price
of the hardware). It was also open source, and could be modified by the
customer. In some cases, these modification were later incorporated
into IBM's standard product. If not, they were often distributed by the
SHARE user group. In addition, since both IBM and their customers
preferred to hire entry level employees directly from school,
and provide on the job training, IBM offered formal classes for their
customer's employees.

Thus, the first unusual aspect of my hiring was that I was a
"professional hire", and therefore started one step about the usual
entry level. The second unusual aspect was that I had an engineering
degree. Despite the job title, the majority of IBM's customers did not
give a hoot about how the equipment worked, and IBM's preferred choice
was to hire MBAs, although I know of at least one history major who
made the grade.

On the other hand, hiring for this position was a local decision, and
the branch office which made me the offer had a high percentage of
aerospace firms and computer service bureaus. However, the true
deciding factor, as Tom Levin (The SE assigned to AC Electronics) told
me later, was that he was looking for promotion, but knew that he
wasn't going to get it until he found someone to take over his current
accounts. [His last advice to me, after I had taken over from him,
and he had been promoted, was to start looking for my replacement.]

Neither my degree, nor my previous job experience, however, excused me
from attending IBM's "boot camp" -- about six weeks of full time
education and indoctrination -- one small part of which included
learning the IBM architecture, and how to program it in RPG, COBOL,
FORTRAN, PL/I, and machine language. If I recall correctly, each of
these topics was given about two days, including lab work.

And that is how I started my IBM career, which was to last for 17
years, before I was seduced by an offer to become Vice President of
Technology development for a division of the Xerox corporation. At
about the same time, Knuth finished writing the first volume of "The
Art of Computer Programming", and started his long career at Stanford
University.

And that is how it was, when Knuth and I were young.

-- Chuck

As an ex-IBMer who also used a wire-wrap gun, in La Goude IBM labs in
France I follow most of this except (for the years) the mention of RPG
which was a tad later and PL/1 was written on my own turf at
Winchester, UK, but well after I left in 1966. Fortran was a team of
about a score of people in the US - I have a list of names somewhere;
PL/1 was nearly 200 all told.
I too went to IBM boot camp for six weeks and I had three science/
maths degress by then, but the machines were 650, 1620, 1401 and 704
and a lot of plug-board accounting machines - and of course, punched
cars!

Charles Crayne showed us an impressive and interesting review
of the time when computer ideas became hardware.

Thanks Chuck, your story reminded me of many meanwhile lost
ideas when I started to play with tubes at the age of 11 (1960).

My background is quite different (self teaching apart from schools)
and I always tried everthing the hard direct way.
But I managed to built (gadgeted) my own tools very early in my life
(frequency meter/counter AD/DA-converter with Nixie tube display)
and this experience helped me a lot for later jobs and even more 
for my much later finished 'offical' education.

IBM 320 and NOVA II were my first encounter in the EDP world.
The very first 'serious' computer hardware was an Z80 based workstation 
with an EPROM-burner and a huge (1MB banked) static memory (1982)
and it's still working today (even rare used now).
   

Your story also make me think about to write down my own memory
while still working :)

__
wolfgang
  

On Thu, 24 May 2007 18:13:56 +0200
"wolfgang kern" <nowhere@nevernet.at> wrote:

> Your story also make me think about to write down my own memory
> while still working :)

Please do so. I am sure that I am not the only one who will be
interested in reading it.

-- Chuck

Terence  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
> [...]

I too used wirewrap throughout the 80s when I was at GTE Government Systems
(Mountain View, CA) building onesie/twosie boxes. Yes, those automated wire-wrap
machines were fascinating to watch.

Many folks have mentioned "PL/1," but Intel put out a "PL/M" compiler in 
the mid-80s - we used it on a few of our x85/x86 single-board computers.
Curious if anyone has heard of PL/M.
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - 
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..."
%%% 919-577-9882                %  
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:38:21 -0400, Randy Yates  <spamtrap@crayne.org>
wrote:

>Terence  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
>> [...]
>
>I too used wirewrap throughout the 80s when I was at GTE Government Systems
>(Mountain View, CA) building onesie/twosie boxes. Yes, those automated wire-wrap
>machines were fascinating to watch.
>
>Many folks have mentioned "PL/1," but Intel put out a "PL/M" compiler in 
>the mid-80s - we used it on a few of our x85/x86 single-board computers.
>Curious if anyone has heard of PL/M.
Of course.  Never used it, though.  :-)  Even have the source:

C         8 0 8 0   P L / M   C O M P I L E R ,   P A S S - 1
C                                 PLM81
C                              VERSION 2.0
C                             JANUARY, 1975
C
C                          COPYRIGHT (C) 1975
C                          INTEL CORPORATION
C                          3065 BOWERS AVENUE
C                          SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA 95051

Do a web search for "plm80s.zip" to get your very own copy. :-)
"plm80.zip" for the EXEs
-- 
ArarghMail705 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the extra stuff from the reply address.

ArarghMail705NOSPAM <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:38:21 -0400, Randy Yates  <spamtrap@crayne.org>
> wrote:
> 
>>Terence  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
>>> [...]
>>
>>I too used wirewrap throughout the 80s when I was at GTE Government Systems
>>(Mountain View, CA) building onesie/twosie boxes. Yes, those automated wire-wrap
>>machines were fascinating to watch.
>>
>>Many folks have mentioned "PL/1," but Intel put out a "PL/M" compiler in 
>>the mid-80s - we used it on a few of our x85/x86 single-board computers.
>>Curious if anyone has heard of PL/M.
> Of course.  Never used it, though.  :-)  Even have the source:
> 
> C         8 0 8 0   P L / M   C O M P I L E R ,   P A S S - 1
> C                                 PLM81
> C                              VERSION 2.0
> C                             JANUARY, 1975
> C
> C                          COPYRIGHT (C) 1975
> C                          INTEL CORPORATION
> C                          3065 BOWERS AVENUE
> C                          SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA 95051
> 
> Do a web search for "plm80s.zip" to get your very own copy. :-)
> "plm80.zip" for the EXEs

In 1980-81 I used PLM86/ASM86 to implement a PID algorithm for controlling temperature
and humidity for 8 or 9 stations on a body fluids analyser produced by Kodak Medical Systems.
I really liked PLM-86, the linker/locator/eprom burner software, Intel's In-circuit Emulators
and the AEDIT text editor.

Dave Feustel
-- 
http://www.iceagenow.com        - Proof that Global Warming is a SCAM
http://republicBroadcasting.org - REAL News The Mass Media won't cover

Randy Yates wrote:
> Terence  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
>> [...]
> 
> I too used wirewrap throughout the 80s when I was at GTE Government Systems
> (Mountain View, CA) building onesie/twosie boxes. Yes, those automated wire-wrap
> machines were fascinating to watch.
> 
> Many folks have mentioned "PL/1," but Intel put out a "PL/M" compiler in 
> the mid-80s - we used it on a few of our x85/x86 single-board computers.
> Curious if anyone has heard of PL/M.

CP/M folks (comp.os.cpm) certainly have, Gary Kildall wrote chunks of 
CP/M and CP/M-86 in PL/M and PL/M-86 respectively.

Richard Brady

On May 23, 11:37 pm, Charles Crayne  <spamt...@crayne.org> wrote:
> In hiring me as an Associate Systems Engineer, IBM had done two unusual
> things. However, before I explain what they were, I need to say a bit
> about the job description. In those days, there was a very strong
> relationship between IBM and their customers. Other than an occasional
> management call, the three categories of IBM employees with whom the
> customer was in almost daily contact were the Sales Representatives
> (Reps), Customer Engineers (CEs), and System Engineers (SEs).
>
> About the Reps, I need say little, except that their commissions were
> based, not only on what they sold, but also on keeping their customers
> satisfied after the sale. The CEs maintained and repaired the IBM
> equipment, most of which was rented, rather that purchased, and the SEs
> provided technical support, both before and after the sale. In fact,
> the SEs often had larger work areas at their customer's location than
> they had at the IBM office.
>
> [There were a number of jokes about the different personalities of
> these disparate types. For example:
>
> A Rep, a SE, and an CE are driving to a customer call, when the car
> suddenly has a flat tire. The Rep goes to look for a phone booth, to
> call for help. The SE finds the owner's manual, and searches it for a
> description of the problem. And the CE starts swapping the tires
> around, to determine which one has failed.]
>
> As the price of the equipment was still very high, both technical
> support and IBM software were "free" (i.e. bundled into the price
> of the hardware). It was also open source, and could be modified by the
> customer. In some cases, these modification were later incorporated
> into IBM's standard product. If not, they were often distributed by the
> SHARE user group. In addition, since both IBM and their customers
> preferred to hire entry level employees directly from school,
> and provide on the job training, IBM offered formal classes for their
> customer's employees.
>
> Thus, the first unusual aspect of my hiring was that I was a
> "professional hire", and therefore started one step about the usual
> entry level. The second unusual aspect was that I had an engineering
> degree. Despite the job title, the majority of IBM's customers did not
> give a hoot about how the equipment worked, and IBM's preferred choice
> was to hire MBAs, although I know of at least one history major who
> made the grade.
>
> On the other hand, hiring for this position was a local decision, and
> the branch office which made me the offer had a high percentage of
> aerospace firms and computer service bureaus. However, the true
> deciding factor, as Tom Levin (The SE assigned to AC Electronics) told
> me later, was that he was looking for promotion, but knew that he
> wasn't going to get it until he found someone to take over his current
> accounts. [His last advice to me, after I had taken over from him,
> and he had been promoted, was to start looking for my replacement.]
>
> Neither my degree, nor my previous job experience, however, excused me
> from attending IBM's "boot camp" -- about six weeks of full time
> education and indoctrination -- one small part of which included
> learning the IBM architecture, and how to program it in RPG, COBOL,
> FORTRAN, PL/I, and machine language. If I recall correctly, each of
> these topics was given about two days, including lab work.
>
> And that is how I started my IBM career, which was to last for 17
> years, before I was seduced by an offer to become Vice President of
> Technology development for a division of the Xerox corporation. At
> about the same time, Knuth finished writing the first volume of "The
> Art of Computer Programming", and started his long career at Stanford
> University.
>
> And that is how it was, when Knuth and I were young.
>
> -- Chuck


Because your vantage is from the 'main frame' world, and from the
earlier years, prior to the dawn of the microprocessor evolution into
the personal computer revolution, I've wanted to ask about your
recollections of the dawn of the personal computer, as well as the
recollection of the opinions of your peers at the time.

Certainly G. Kildall promulgated the PC revolution with the advent of
his CP/M OS.  Which, it should be pointed out, was his attempted
'proof of concept' that development on a main frame could be pushed
out onto dedicated 'workstations' of microprocessor controlled 'smart
terminals'.  He had hired himself out as a consultant to Intel, in the
early 1970's.  By Intel's mandate to develop a HLL cross compiler for
Intel's 4004, 8008 and quickly followed by 8080 cpu's, he developed PL/
M written in Fortran, which was a great success.  His first attempt to
demonstate the 'workstation' paradigm was a failure however, because
the IO devices available were a paper tape reader for input and a
teletype for output, and these being too slow to be practical for a
'work station'.  His idea gained footing with the availability of the
8 inch floppy drive, and the first CP/M implementation for it was in
1975, and as Richard points out CP/M was purposely written in PL/M.

CP/M's golden years were from 1976 to about 1982 or so.  In the fall
of 1981 IBM introduced the IBM PC.  Because of IBM's weight, these
micro thingys gained notice.  Prior to that, I think it is safe to
say, the micro thingys were the venue of electronic technicians,
tinkerers, and a few of us otherwise 'probative minds' on the one
hand.  On the other, there was a quick adoption by small business who
found surprisingly good utility for printing chores, inventory
management and small payroll use.

Years ago, I came away with the notion that those of the 'main frame'
world largely dismissed the micro thingys back then.  Amusingly, to
listen to the S100 buss, heavy iron, folks, they dismissed the IBM PC
as dumbed down and seriously lacking.  Some S100 folk already had
multi-user, multi-tasking utility out of their 8bit systems, and those
who were allured by the 8086 thought the 128k supplied by the IBM PC
as lame.

With the above as background, along with your recount of 'the way
things were', perhaps I restate the obvious to proffer the notion of a
paradigm shift in the approach to programming with the advent of the
Personal Computer 'workstation'.  The point being that I can be a
sloppy programmer on a PC and still hope to accomplish, being saved
by, or liberated by, quick turnaround in the Edit, Compile, Debug,
cycle.  By contrast, I was told that cold war programmers of Russia
and the Eastern Block were stronger in their development and
implemetation of algorithms precisely because access to hardware was
difficult, turn-around times lamentable, so extensive prework with
pencil and paper was required!

Succinctly, in the purview of my proffer, I agree with you about
Knuth's texts and target audience.

--------

I'm curious if you had much dealings with Boca Raton?

Would you tell me more about the SHARE group, I've seen other passing
references, but I know little of it, and its reason for being other
than a 'user group'.

Thanks, and thanks for the 'telling',

Steve

[post try #2]

On May 23, 10:37 pm, Charles Crayne  <spamt...@crayne.org> wrote:
>
> And that is how I started my IBM career, which was to last for 17
> years, before I was seduced by an offer to become Vice President of
> Technology development for a division of the Xerox corporation. At
> about the same time, Knuth finished writing the first volume of "The
> Art of Computer Programming", and started his long career at Stanford
> University.

So, IOW, you were long past being a "beginning programmer" by the time
TAoCP came out, and as a result, you have no personal connection with
the textbook from the point of view of a beginner. OTOH, I actually
used the textbook in my Junior year.  It was appropriate for the
course at the time, it was not appropriate for someone taking their
first FORTRAN (or whatever) programming course. While your historical
recollections have been interesting, you've failed to make a case that
TAoCP is an appropriate textbook for a beginning computer science
student (that is, one that has never before taking a programming
course).
hLater,
Randy Hyde

An added note.
I remember we had in IBM in the 1961-64 period in Winchester labs,
today-recognisable PC type computers for lab work information capture.
And we had 10 inch (8?) floppies to boot the 1460 in dianostic mode
(remember those big 3-foot discs that ended up on IBM walls?)
A very similar-looking desktop computer and screen device from IBM
came out later running basic. I can't remember the model number, be we
had a few in Shell.

On 27 May 2007 08:11:11 -0700
s_dubrovich <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:

> I've wanted to ask about your
> recollections of the dawn of the personal computer, as well as the
> recollection of the opinions of your peers at the time.

Let me first answer your specific questions, and then I'll return to
the general.

> I'm curious if you had much dealings with Boca Raton?

No, as you suggested, the branch office had only a short-term view of
the product, and, therefore, assigned the most junior SE in the office
to the position of PC Coordinator.

> Would you tell me more about the SHARE group

SHARE was formed in 1955, and is still going strong today. Most of
IBM's large customers belonged to it, and, therefore, IBM valued its
input. You can read more about it at www.share.org. In addition to
SHARE, similar groups (COMMON and GUIDE) represented other segments of
IBM's customer base.

> Certainly G. Kildall promulgated the PC revolution with the advent of
> his CP/M OS.

If you haven't already seen it, you might be interested in looking at
the "Chuck's Computer Corner" section of my web page
http://www.pacificsites.com/~ccrayne/

> Years ago, I came away with the notion that those of the 'main frame'
> world largely dismissed the micro thingys back then.

Initially, yes, but it wasn't long before some third party
manufacturers came out with plug-in boards which made the PC emulate an
IBM 3270, and soon they were selling like hotcakes, thereby
bringing about the second phase of the paradigm shift which you mention.

> perhaps I restate the obvious to proffer the notion of a
> paradigm shift in the approach to programming with the advent of the
> Personal Computer 'workstation'.

Well, your concept is correct, but your timing is off. The shift from
batch to on-line program development had already taken place by the
time the PC was introduced. The problem was that pretty soon programmers
had two workstations on their desks -- a 3270 for program development,
and a PC for word processing and spreadsheets. And, as I told everybody
at the time, there is little or nothing more useless that a human can
do than to read data off of one terminal and type it into another.

-- Chuck

On 27 May 2007 13:40:45 -0700
"rhyde@cs.ucr.edu"  <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:

> While your historical
> recollections have been interesting, you've failed to make a case that
> TAoCP is an appropriate textbook for a beginning computer science
> student (that is, one that has never before taking a programming
> course).

Probably because I have never made such a claim. What I did claim was
that it was appropriate for Knuth's math students at Cal Tech who, like
most of us in those days, had taken no previous programming courses.
And, you have thrice supported my position. First, by pointing out that
those students were a cut above the average. Second, by talking about
the math density of the text. And, most recently, by reminding everyone
that there were no computer science students in those days.

-- Chuck

dave  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:

> ArarghMail705NOSPAM <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:38:21 -0400, Randy Yates  <spamtrap@crayne.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Terence  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>>I too used wirewrap throughout the 80s when I was at GTE Government Systems
>>>(Mountain View, CA) building onesie/twosie boxes. Yes, those automated wire-wrap
>>>machines were fascinating to watch.
>>>
>>>Many folks have mentioned "PL/1," but Intel put out a "PL/M" compiler in 
>>>the mid-80s - we used it on a few of our x85/x86 single-board computers.
>>>Curious if anyone has heard of PL/M.
>> Of course.  Never used it, though.  :-)  Even have the source:
>> 
>> C         8 0 8 0   P L / M   C O M P I L E R ,   P A S S - 1
>> C                                 PLM81
>> C                              VERSION 2.0
>> C                             JANUARY, 1975
>> C
>> C                          COPYRIGHT (C) 1975
>> C                          INTEL CORPORATION
>> C                          3065 BOWERS AVENUE
>> C                          SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA 95051
>> 
>> Do a web search for "plm80s.zip" to get your very own copy. :-)
>> "plm80.zip" for the EXEs
>
> In 1980-81 I used PLM86/ASM86 to implement a PID algorithm for controlling temperature
> and humidity for 8 or 9 stations on a body fluids analyser produced by Kodak Medical Systems.
> I really liked PLM-86, the linker/locator/eprom burner software, Intel's In-circuit Emulators
> and the AEDIT text editor.

Is it similar to PL/1? 

Wow, I had no idea so many folks remembered this stuff. Good to know
you guys (and girls) are around. Thanks!
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "She tells me that she likes me very much,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %     but when I try to touch, she makes it
%%% 919-577-9882                %                            all too clear."
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           %        'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO  
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Randy Yates <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
> dave  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
> 
>> ArarghMail705NOSPAM <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:38:21 -0400, Randy Yates  <spamtrap@crayne.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>Terence  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>I too used wirewrap throughout the 80s when I was at GTE Government Systems
>>>>(Mountain View, CA) building onesie/twosie boxes. Yes, those automated wire-wrap
>>>>machines were fascinating to watch.
>>>>
>>>>Many folks have mentioned "PL/1," but Intel put out a "PL/M" compiler in 
>>>>the mid-80s - we used it on a few of our x85/x86 single-board computers.
>>>>Curious if anyone has heard of PL/M.
>>> Of course.  Never used it, though.  :-)  Even have the source:
>>> 
>>> C         8 0 8 0   P L / M   C O M P I L E R ,   P A S S - 1
>>> C                                 PLM81
>>> C                              VERSION 2.0
>>> C                             JANUARY, 1975
>>> C
>>> C                          COPYRIGHT (C) 1975
>>> C                          INTEL CORPORATION
>>> C                          3065 BOWERS AVENUE
>>> C                          SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA 95051
>>> 
>>> Do a web search for "plm80s.zip" to get your very own copy. :-)
>>> "plm80.zip" for the EXEs
>>
>> In 1980-81 I used PLM86/ASM86 to implement a PID algorithm for controlling temperature
>> and humidity for 8 or 9 stations on a body fluids analyser produced by Kodak Medical Systems.
>> I really liked PLM-86, the linker/locator/eprom burner software, Intel's In-circuit Emulators
>> and the AEDIT text editor.
> 
> Is it similar to PL/1? 

PLM-86 code Looks like PL/I code, but it has far fewer features.
 
> Wow, I had no idea so many folks remembered this stuff. Good to know
> you guys (and girls) are around. Thanks!

-- 
Kurt Godel - The GOD of indecisiveness

On May 28, 11:55 am, Charles Crayne  <spamt...@crayne.org> wrote:

> Initially, yes, but it wasn't long before some third party
> manufacturers came out with plug-in boards which made the PC emulate an
> IBM 3270, and soon they were selling like hotcakes, thereby
> bringing about the second phase of the paradigm shift which you mention.
>

Hey!
 I wrote the 3270 Emulator for Maraven (former Shell),  to allow PC's
to talk to a Modcomp computer as messaging switchers. Then we
interconnected all the main Shell offces London, Houston, Caracas, etc
through this network. On the output side the Modcomps connected to IBM
mainframes and so we had a world-wide access to the on-line files and
to the HASP spool/processing facilities and of course mutual backup.

Maraven donateded the software to the Modcomp user group (note:
Modcomp computers were core-based (hence memory stayed, on power-down)
computers for oil refinary control.

Note: you don't run a refinery in optimum mode (i.e. near the peak of
the Q-curve) because the reaction rate goes to near-infinity. There is
hole in the ground in the south of the US where a refinery disappeared
after swith-on of a closed loop system that had no delay in thde
control process.

Charles Crayne wrote:
> On 27 May 2007 08:11:11 -0700
> s_dubrovich <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
> 
[]
>> perhaps I restate the obvious to proffer the notion of a
>> paradigm shift in the approach to programming with the advent of the
>> Personal Computer 'workstation'.
> 
> Well, your concept is correct, but your timing is off. The shift from
> batch to on-line program development had already taken place by the
> time the PC was introduced. The problem was that pretty soon programmers
> had two workstations on their desks -- a 3270 for program development,
> and a PC for word processing and spreadsheets. And, as I told everybody
> at the time, there is little or nothing more useless that a human can
> do than to read data off of one terminal and type it into another.

There were terminal emulators such as IRMA cards, and Attachmate's 
Extra! then later on the full machine: IBM's 3270PC.
I had a 3270 AT at work for a while.

Mike Jones <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
> Charles Crayne wrote:
>> On 27 May 2007 08:11:11 -0700
>> s_dubrovich <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
>> 
> []
>>> perhaps I restate the obvious to proffer the notion of a
>>> paradigm shift in the approach to programming with the advent of the
>>> Personal Computer 'workstation'.
>> 
>> Well, your concept is correct, but your timing is off. The shift from
>> batch to on-line program development had already taken place by the
>> time the PC was introduced. The problem was that pretty soon programmers

Way before, in fact. I was using MTS (Michigan Timesharing System) in 1967
at University of Michigan. I had started out using only 7090 batch mode in 1965.
I also used a very sophisticated timesharing system in Germany in 1971-1973
at the Technical University of Munich.
...
>> had two workstations on their desks -- a 3270 for program development,
>> and a PC for word processing and spreadsheets. And, as I told everybody
>> at the time, there is little or nothing more useless that a human can
>> do than to read data off of one terminal and type it into another.
> 
> There were terminal emulators such as IRMA cards, and Attachmate's 
> Extra! then later on the full machine: IBM's 3270PC.
> I had a 3270 AT at work for a while.
> 

On May 27, 7:55 pm, Charles Crayne  <spamt...@crayne.org> wrote:
[snip]
>
> If you haven't already seen it, you might be interested in looking at
> the "Chuck's Computer Corner" section of my web pagehttp://www.pacificsites.com/~ccrayne/
>
The 8008!  Well that solidifies your 'pioneer' status!
Your CC-BBS software may not be so obsolete.. now there's Telnet
BBS'ing:

http://telbbs.petscii.com/

Steve

Also, there's this, although I don't seem to be able to connect with
my current configuration..
"
[updated 2/10/2004] You can now try an S-100 machine equipped with a
Super-I/O controller by telneting to: telnet://www.hartetec.com. The
machine is a Cromemco System One outfitted with the following
configuration:"
[snip]
.. . .

s_dubrovich <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:

> On May 27, 7:55 pm, Charles Crayne  <spamt...@crayne.org> wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> If you haven't already seen it, you might be interested in looking at
>> the "Chuck's Computer Corner" section of my web pagehttp://www.pacificsites.com/~ccrayne/
>>
> The 8008!  Well that solidifies your 'pioneer' status!
> Your CC-BBS software may not be so obsolete.. now there's Telnet
> BBS'ing:
>
> http://telbbs.petscii.com/
>
> Steve
>
> Also, there's this, although I don't seem to be able to connect with
> my current configuration..
> "
> [updated 2/10/2004] You can now try an S-100 machine equipped with a
> Super-I/O controller by telneting to: telnet://www.hartetec.com. The
> machine is a Cromemco System One outfitted with the following
> configuration:"
> [snip]

Personally I think it would be way cool to have a VAX 11/780 sitting 
in my office... I've always loved VMS.
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool - 
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..."
%%% 919-577-9882                %  
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           % 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Randy Yates  <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
>
>Personally I think it would be way cool to have a VAX 11/780 sitting 
>in my office... I've always loved VMS.

Interesting you would say "way cool".  They burn more than 6 kilowatts.
Between that and the air conditioner you'd need to add to keep it cool,
it'd add quite a bit to your electric bill!
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

On 4 Jun, 19:03, s_dubrovich <spamt...@crayne.org> wrote:
> The 8008!  Well that solidifies your 'pioneer' status!

Nah, far too easy.  The 4004, OTOH, was a *real* processor.  Even
familiar mnemonics like MOV and CALL hadn't yet been introduced,
instead there were Fetch Immediate (FIM), Fetch Indirect (FIN) and
Branch Back and Link (BBL).  My introduction to programming the 4004
was in modifying the control code in a ProLog PROM programmer to
calculate and display a proprietary CRC.

As reminiscences seem to be the order of the day, you can find mine
(in two parts) here:

  http://tinyurl.com/ysaxrg

(numbers 11 and 15 in the list).

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/
To reply by email change 'news' to my forename.

Tim Roberts  <spamtrap@crayne.org> writes:

> Randy Yates  <spamtrap@crayne.org> wrote:
>>
>>Personally I think it would be way cool to have a VAX 11/780 sitting 
>>in my office... I've always loved VMS.
>
> Interesting you would say "way cool".  They burn more than 6 kilowatts.
> Between that and the air conditioner you'd need to add to keep it cool,
> it'd add quite a bit to your electric bill!

Wow! A little expensive for a MIP of processing power, huh? 

http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX
-- 
%  Randy Yates                  % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC            %            on, and she's also a telephone."
%%% 919-577-9882                % 
%%%% <yates@ieee.org>           %        'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO   
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr