f



RB 2005: A Joke??

i have to admit that i was excited to finally see the rb2005 release
today. i downloaded the update and entered my new serial and.
this is absolutely horrid.

I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience. i was hoping
for at least the possibility to edit windows in well, separate windows.
isnt that why they are called windows???? this horrible IDE that uses
the tabs is so slow and hinders development incredibly. again i can not
believe that this made it out the door and they expect us to actually
use it.

how am i supposed to design an even simple program without having the
window I'm designing to look at and the related code in a SEPARATE
window? as it is now I cant view them in separate windows which means
that i cant view them both at the same time.

I have been a realbasic customer for many years and this is absurd. i
am very disappointed and have completely lost faith in this development
environment. with such high hopes, even the smallest of things didnt
get implemented in this. and after all of the dreadful user interface
problems, the thing is very buggy at best. this is DEFINITELY NOT A
VERSION ONE RELEASE. talk about a push to get this thing out the door.

geoff and joe i hope you are listening. i highly doubtt i'm the only
one that feels this way. time will tell i guess. if you were going
after windows vb users you have probably won your goal. but for your
loyal mac users, i think its time to say goodbye.

yes people. rb 2005's interface is just as bad as it has been rumored.
try it for yourself and please let me know how you feel because i am
positive i'm not alone here. lets see how you think after trying it

0
searchbuffet
6/14/2005 9:15:46 PM
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I think you'll find experienced VB users will dislike it as much (or more)
than you do. 

There are almost no favorable posts to the RB mailing lists.

searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:

>i have to admit that i was excited to finally see the rb2005 release
>today. i downloaded the update and entered my new serial and.
>this is absolutely horrid.
>
>I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
>and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
>is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
>the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
>visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
>like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience. i was hoping
>for at least the possibility to edit windows in well, separate windows.
>isnt that why they are called windows???? this horrible IDE that uses
>the tabs is so slow and hinders development incredibly. again i can not
>believe that this made it out the door and they expect us to actually
>use it.
>
>how am i supposed to design an even simple program without having the
>window I'm designing to look at and the related code in a SEPARATE
>window? as it is now I cant view them in separate windows which means
>that i cant view them both at the same time.
>
>I have been a realbasic customer for many years and this is absurd. i
>am very disappointed and have completely lost faith in this development
>environment. with such high hopes, even the smallest of things didnt
>get implemented in this. and after all of the dreadful user interface
>problems, the thing is very buggy at best. this is DEFINITELY NOT A
>VERSION ONE RELEASE. talk about a push to get this thing out the door.
>
>geoff and joe i hope you are listening. i highly doubtt i'm the only
>one that feels this way. time will tell i guess. if you were going
>after windows vb users you have probably won your goal. but for your
>loyal mac users, i think its time to say goodbye.
>
>yes people. rb 2005's interface is just as bad as it has been rumored.
>try it for yourself and please let me know how you feel because i am
>positive i'm not alone here. lets see how you think after trying it

0
nobody
6/15/2005 12:39:34 AM
Yep...

Greed has a way of warping one's sense of morality, or are we simply
talking about incompetence - or perhaps a combination of the two.

The funniest post I saw from an RS employee back when this was first
annouced was that the new RB design was inspired by Safari and as as a Mac
user I should basically get down on my knees and thank them for it.

I have no plans on waisting my time downloading and trying RB 2005 / 6
because as soon I saw the screen shots of it I knew the interaction with
the user would be a joke. It was obvious it was intended for Win32 users
because this is what I see in Win32 programs - one big idiot window with a
bunch of stuff you can't hide or turn off. This is why I use Macs, as the
OS design is more effecient - seperate tools pallets which can be hidden
or shown and tasks that can be completed with a single click. It really
does not matter to me if the initial release is buggy as the interface is
worth nothing - its going to take far more time to complete projects, far
more time than I am willing to invest.

I think RS has already provided their answer to Mac users in a previous
post I read in which a RS employee said if you don't like 2005 / 6 you can
use 5.5 (i.e., get stuffed). I don't think RS really gives a rat's behind
about Mac users, they are after the money.

I for one will not be upgrading beyond my current Pro 5.5

0
kcooddeerr
6/15/2005 1:45:13 AM
I haven't seen it, but did they try to mimic that god awful MS Visual Studio 
..Net IDE???

"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message 
news:42af7803.120033662@nntp.fuse.net...
>I think you'll find experienced VB users will dislike it as much (or more)
> than you do.
>
> There are almost no favorable posts to the RB mailing lists.
>
> searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>i have to admit that i was excited to finally see the rb2005 release
>>today. i downloaded the update and entered my new serial and.
>>this is absolutely horrid.
>>
>>I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
>>and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
>>is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
>>the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
>>visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
>>like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience. i was hoping
>>for at least the possibility to edit windows in well, separate windows.
>>isnt that why they are called windows???? this horrible IDE that uses
>>the tabs is so slow and hinders development incredibly. again i can not
>>believe that this made it out the door and they expect us to actually
>>use it.
>>
>>how am i supposed to design an even simple program without having the
>>window I'm designing to look at and the related code in a SEPARATE
>>window? as it is now I cant view them in separate windows which means
>>that i cant view them both at the same time.
>>
>>I have been a realbasic customer for many years and this is absurd. i
>>am very disappointed and have completely lost faith in this development
>>environment. with such high hopes, even the smallest of things didnt
>>get implemented in this. and after all of the dreadful user interface
>>problems, the thing is very buggy at best. this is DEFINITELY NOT A
>>VERSION ONE RELEASE. talk about a push to get this thing out the door.
>>
>>geoff and joe i hope you are listening. i highly doubtt i'm the only
>>one that feels this way. time will tell i guess. if you were going
>>after windows vb users you have probably won your goal. but for your
>>loyal mac users, i think its time to say goodbye.
>>
>>yes people. rb 2005's interface is just as bad as it has been rumored.
>>try it for yourself and please let me know how you feel because i am
>>positive i'm not alone here. lets see how you think after trying it
> 


0
Noozer
6/15/2005 1:57:29 AM
It's MUCH worse than the .net ide, and that's bad enough. words can not
express my dissatisfaction with this junk. I guess it goes to show a
lot of what the people at RS think of their own RB language if this is
the best they can do with their own tools. give me a break. the biggest
letdown of 2005.

And even after trying this thing out for the rest of today there is
nothing new to report other than more hassles, slow downs, crashes, and
out of bounds errors [this being from THEIR OWN SOFTWARE IDE FOR GODS
SAKE]. I guess i was sorely wrong in saying that windows users would
even be semi happy with this considering the posts above. since they
dumped the mac users, i wish them the worst of luck and hope that their
sales hit rock bottom for this absolute ripoff. i repeat. MAC USERS AND
EVEN WINDOWS USERS. DO NOT BUY or upgrade to this horrid piece of crap.
and no matter what you do, do not pay for it. this wouldnt even be
worth a cracked version or even the free linux version if it ever comes
out. well actually this may be just below par of the worst linux gui
apps out there so maybe theyll sell a couple of the pro linux versions
though highly doubtful.

 adios rb.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 2:33:44 AM
In article 
<5e139cd00ede932c15575035e0fbd89a@localhost.talkaboutprogramming.com>,
 "kcooddeerr" <kcooddeerr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I for one will not be upgrading beyond my current Pro 5.5

Thus far I've found it hideously confusing. I am missing things like the 
split pane for viewing multiple functions in the same window. Also, I 
want that old widget that hid empty methods.

:(

-- 
Dan L.

dim p as programmer

while not(projectdone)
p.caffeinate
wend
0
Daniel
6/15/2005 2:34:20 AM
In article <dWLre.1680431$Xk.1362932@pd7tw3no>,
 "Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote:

> I haven't seen it, but did they try to mimic that god awful MS Visual Studio 
> .Net IDE???

No, not at all.  The new UI is based on an analysis of which activities 
consume the most time when working with the old IDE (apart from things 
like thinking and typing, which we'd already helped out as much as we 
can).  It was also modeled after modern web browsers, like Firefox and 
Safari -- you'll notice some familiar idioms, like a Location field that 
lets you very quickly go to any part of your project by name, 
forward/back buttons and a history menu that let you reach 
recently-visited locations, bookmarks that work both within a project 
and between projects, and so on.

It's not really surprising that good UI for a development environment is 
similar to good UI for a web browser, since many of the problems are the 
same -- navigating around in a large (but hierarchical) information 
space.  Five or ten years from now, probably all IDEs will work this 
way, just as most web browsers are converging on these idioms now.  But 
I'm proud that we're the first to put them to good use in a development 
tool.

Cheers,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 2:51:16 AM
Theres a big difference with good ui development for a web browser
which is made to do a very specific thing: browse webpages. A
development IDE is a far cry from that.

looks like the entire RS staff is in defensive mode: was this backlash
really a surprise to you guys???? you have got to be kidding if you
think this is a good advancement in a development tool and are proud of
it. if this were on my mac se, sure i'd be proud of it too. but since
most of my customers use something a bit more advanced than superpaint,
they expect a bit more. give me a break. suck it up while you still
have the chance and give us some UI customization options. and no i'm
not talking about the 'wonderful' customizable [if thats what you call
it] toolbar things in rb2005.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 3:04:45 AM
Joe Strout wrote:

> It was also modeled after modern web browsers

RB in no web browser.
Nobody would construkt a car after modern tanks. So what? RB is a 
programming language!

How can I use my second monior?

:-(

MfG, Metti.
0
Stefan
6/15/2005 3:16:48 AM
sorry Stefan, the only way to utilize more than a single monitor in
800x600 with rb2005 is to throw it away.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 3:22:10 AM
> There are almost no favorable posts to the RB mailing lists.

Which mailing list(s)? And if I joined one of them now, I presume I will
have missed all of the past messages (I think that is how mailing lists
work). By the way, why are mailing lists the preferred method of
exchanging messages among RB users rather than newsgroups where an
archive (Google) exists for reading old messages?

Rick

0
Rick
6/15/2005 4:01:54 AM
you can see all of the wonderful [um no] reviews of it archived at
http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 4:09:00 AM
even more things that suck::
* much bigger compiled program sizes. my simple program that used to be
about 6 mb when compiled in 5.5.5 is now 9.3 mb. this is without making
a single change to the code, plugins, resources or anything else.
* my simple program that used to take about 20% of the proc time when
active now takes over 60%.
* even the simplest things in the rb 2005 VERSION 1.0 FINAL RELEASE
dont work. this includes that it   doesnt even keep the majority of
your settings. even the most basic of expected things such as a few
saved preferences for their frickin IDE cant be saved. and this is a
final 1.0 release???? how much money did you need RS. did you really
need to release this right now. this quick??. man i am po'ed.

and yes I will keep posting more and more things as I find them for
anyone that cares to read them. the bad and maybe even good if I can
even find one stinking thing that is good.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 4:27:18 AM
> you can see all of the wonderful [um no] reviews of it archived at
> http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug

Thank you!

Rick 
0
Rick
6/15/2005 4:35:59 AM
Dave Houston wrote:

> I think you'll find experienced VB users will dislike it as much (or more)
> than you do. 
> 
> There are almost no favorable posts to the RB mailing lists.


Good to see you here Dave!

I have been keeping an eye on RB for almost two years now. The v5 stuff 
required WAY too much clicking for me. I saw the new version last year 
and decided to continue with VB6 until 2005 was released. After fooling 
around with a beta for the last couple of months I can assure you the 
version released today is MUCH better. All of the things that caused 
crashes (for me) appear to have been solved. Not being a Mac guy I have 
been using XP and RH9.

Here are some favorable posts from the mail lists:
support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug/2005-06/msg01216.html
support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug/2005-06/msg01225.html
support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug/2005-06/msg01208.html

Two problems were identified today - McAfee Virusscan and old plug-ins.

 From what I have seen RealSoftware is making great strides in building 
a modern programming language with more great stuff to come.
0
Lewis
6/15/2005 5:05:53 AM
 > one big idiot window

That "one big idiot window" allows you to load more than one project at 
a time. A BIG improvement if you ask me...
0
Lewis
6/15/2005 5:10:59 AM
not sure how you get more than one project open in the single big-idiot
window? when I load the new 2005 version I get the single big-idiot
interface and then load up another project and get a whole new second
big-idiot window. I dont see a way to open up more than 1 project in
one big-idiot window. if there is please tell me so I can try.

but even then this doesnt solve much as the giant white background is
taking up so much unneeded space on my monitor that I cant see through
to work efficiently. lewis - being a windows user this probably is
normal, but on the mac side, its not and greatly hinders efficiency and
workflow.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 5:22:14 AM
Loading more than one project has never been a problem before for me since
3.0 = run two copies of RB at the same time. I see no improvement.

0
kcooddeerr
6/15/2005 6:38:38 AM
In the end I really don't think RS's management really cares. The Enron
sort of corporate thinking tends to develope in the upper managment of
corporations; they sort of loose touch with the real world - you know,
people using RB to make some money on the side to pay their mortgage,
etc... They think every one drives around in a Porche and lives in a
mansion and immediately can afford to upgrade to the newest version of RB
and immediately buy a new Mac once the next fastest processor comes out.
LOL - Have fun trying to fit through the eye of the needle! 

That Safari BS -  I'd figure they would have come up with something new by
now.

0
kcooddeerr
6/15/2005 6:54:44 AM
if I were them  I'd compare it to a horrendously done xcode. my .02.
and I like xcode. and by NO means make any assumptions that RB is
anywhere near even the lowest point of xcode. I hope their GUI
designers get canned ASAP.

The only solution I can see now that will keep mac users from
abandoning ship quickly [and consistently] is to provide the IDE as is.
then ad least let us be able to undock the tabs to our own liking, and
split views multiple times [not just once like now - multiple split
views were great before]. Just give US the END USERS and YOUR LIFEBLOOD
the choice to look at our IDE how we best work. as it stands now, there
is no customization: every one of your users is just supposed to
conform exactly to your new [highly debated and consistently poorly
rated] development environment? That's definitely not the way to do it.
Just give us some options to work with here and meet in middle ground:
thats all I (We're) asking.

And please dont talk about the toolbar customization, because it's
basically useless and doesnt offer any useful customization.Just get
that giant big white background "holder" out of this, and make it in
multi windows (learn from the big guys and palettes - Photoshop,
Illustrator, Freehand, Flash, Apple - FCP, ProTools, even codewarrior.
learn something please! Please let us move the program components
around where we feel the most useful spot is. if you want to keep the
big window there for window's users, keep it. but give us, probably
mostly mac users, a way to use it in the 5.5.5 style of separate
windows. and being able to open a window and see it's code in 2
separate windows.

but maybe RS just isnt listening to any of this and are stuck in their
ways already too much. I just gotta say, whatever marketing research
agency did your GUI testing on for you, you should get rid of them and
sue them. they must have given you the results from a Taco bell survey.
ramble ramble. this thing sucks. FIX IT.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 7:39:25 AM
I like it.

<searchbuffet@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1118783746.485183.196450@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>i have to admit that i was excited to finally see the rb2005 release
> today. i downloaded the update and entered my new serial and.
> this is absolutely horrid.
>
> I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
> and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
> is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
> the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
> visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
> like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience. i was hoping
> for at least the possibility to edit windows in well, separate windows.
> isnt that why they are called windows???? this horrible IDE that uses
> the tabs is so slow and hinders development incredibly. again i can not
> believe that this made it out the door and they expect us to actually
> use it.
>
> how am i supposed to design an even simple program without having the
> window I'm designing to look at and the related code in a SEPARATE
> window? as it is now I cant view them in separate windows which means
> that i cant view them both at the same time.
>
> I have been a realbasic customer for many years and this is absurd. i
> am very disappointed and have completely lost faith in this development
> environment. with such high hopes, even the smallest of things didnt
> get implemented in this. and after all of the dreadful user interface
> problems, the thing is very buggy at best. this is DEFINITELY NOT A
> VERSION ONE RELEASE. talk about a push to get this thing out the door.
>
> geoff and joe i hope you are listening. i highly doubtt i'm the only
> one that feels this way. time will tell i guess. if you were going
> after windows vb users you have probably won your goal. but for your
> loyal mac users, i think its time to say goodbye.
>
> yes people. rb 2005's interface is just as bad as it has been rumored.
> try it for yourself and please let me know how you feel because i am
> positive i'm not alone here. lets see how you think after trying it
> 


0
Me
6/15/2005 8:37:49 AM
"Rick Rothstein" <rickNOSPAMnews@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

>> There are almost no favorable posts to the RB mailing lists.
>
>Which mailing list(s)? And if I joined one of them now, I presume I will
>have missed all of the past messages (I think that is how mailing lists
>work). By the way, why are mailing lists the preferred method of
>exchanging messages among RB users rather than newsgroups where an
>archive (Google) exists for reading old messages?

You can browse the archived lists from the RB Support page...

     http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html

I'm not sure they are "preferred" by anybody but RB who apparently doesn't
want to maintain forums. The signal to noise ratio of the lists is
unbearable so I check the archives now and then.

0
nobody
6/15/2005 11:10:41 AM
Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:

>Dave Houston wrote:
>
>> I think you'll find experienced VB users will dislike it as much (or more)
>> than you do. 
>> 
>> There are almost no favorable posts to the RB mailing lists.
>
>
>Good to see you here Dave!
>
>I have been keeping an eye on RB for almost two years now. The v5 stuff 
>required WAY too much clicking for me. I saw the new version last year 
>and decided to continue with VB6 until 2005 was released. After fooling 
>around with a beta for the last couple of months I can assure you the 
>version released today is MUCH better. All of the things that caused 
>crashes (for me) appear to have been solved. Not being a Mac guy I have 
>been using XP and RH9.
>
>Here are some favorable posts from the mail lists:
>support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug/2005-06/msg01216.html
>support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug/2005-06/msg01225.html
>support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/realbasic-nug/2005-06/msg01208.html
>
>Two problems were identified today - McAfee Virusscan and old plug-ins.
>
> From what I have seen RealSoftware is making great strides in building 
>a modern programming language with more great stuff to come.

Lewis,

I first looked at RB 5-6 years ago and, since then, checked on it now and
again. My only interest is in finding a version of Basic for use with Linux
(and for PDAs although there are other solutions for that). It was only when
they offered the free download that I decided to explore it firsthand.

5.5 was useless under W98SE (crashing every few minutes) even though they
listed W98SE among the systems supported. If they can't make their IDE run
under W98SE, I'm leery that my compiled apps will run reliably under it.
While it's OK under XP, it quickly became painfully obvious that they have
nobody on their staff with even a minimal understanding of serial comms. 

Their attitude seems to be, "This is the epitome of perfection and you will
like it." (See any Joe Strout post for an example.) Obviously, they are
satisfied serving the miniscule market they now have.

I find their documentation amateurish. I find their use of mailing lists
amateurish. (I have a low frustration level and do not like wending my way
through page after page of senseless drivel to glean an occasional nugget of
useful information.) With VB it's easy to find tens (or hundreds) of online
code snippets to answer almost any question. With RB, it's nearly impossible
to find any.

I really like some RB features but I do not have the time to spend hours,
days or weeks trying to accomplish things that I can do in VB in minutes.

I'll try the 2005 demo in the next day or so but am not about to risk even
the $50 upgrade price if the demo doesn't show they've learned how to do
serial comms. As you know, my machines tend to have a dozen or more serial
ports.

I assume that the demo will not allow me to compile my app so I'm not sure
it will answer my questions. I do not pay for software that I have to then
debug and I don't have the time to be a beta tester.

0
nobody
6/15/2005 11:59:55 AM
Dave Houston wrote:
> Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:
> 
> I first looked at RB 5-6 years ago and, since then, checked on it now and
> again. My only interest is in finding a version of Basic for use with Linux
> (and for PDAs although there are other solutions for that). It was only when
> they offered the free download that I decided to explore it firsthand.
>

Have a look at Gambas [1] if you are looking for a Basic with
Linux only.

> I find their documentation amateurish. I find their use of mailing lists
> amateurish. 

Although I don't like mailing lists, too, I would not consider them
amateurish. Many open source project (e.g. also big players like Apache)
are using mailing lists for communication.

Gerald

[1] http://gambas.sourceforge.net/
0
Gerald
6/15/2005 12:55:54 PM
In article <3YCdnaPoeLusNTLfRVn-uA@comcast.com>,
 "Rick Rothstein" <rickNOSPAMnews@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

> Which mailing list(s)?

REAL Software hosts has several of mailing lists, ranging from the 
general to the more topic-specific.  You can subscribe for 
individual-message or digest delivery, or unsubscribe, here:

   <http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>

> And if I joined one of them now, I presume I will
> have missed all of the past messages (I think that is how mailing lists
> work).

No, there are archives you can browse or search here:

    <http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>

The NUG (Network User's Group) mailing list, for example -- the most 
general one -- has archives back to October of 1997.

> By the way, why are mailing lists the preferred method of
> exchanging messages among RB users rather than newsgroups where an
> archive (Google) exists for reading old messages?

Yep.  The mailing lists get a lot more use, including being read by much 
of the REAL Software staff, unlike the newsgroup.  (I know, many people 
will give up usenet when it is pried from their cold, dead, fingers, but 
these days the vast majority of computer users don't even have a 
newsreader, nor familiarity with some web/news interface.)  And as you 
can see, archives are not a problem.

But, FWIW, I'll still hang out here on the newsgroup to help out those 
who prefer to use it whenever I can.

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 1:47:00 PM
In article <d8o6ks$63h$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
 Stefan Mettenbrink <mettenbrink.stefan@t-online.de> wrote:

> > It was also modeled after modern web browsers
> 
> RB in no web browser.

No, but it uses many of the same idioms, and works quite well in 
practice.  After you use REALbasic 2005 for a while, if you try to go 
back to 5.5, I think you'll quickly get frustrated with how long it 
takes to navigate your project in order to get anything done.  At least, 
that's certainly been my experience.

> How can I use my second monior?

The same way that I do, and probably the same way you do when browsing 
the web: you open up a second window and drag it over to your second 
monitor.  Then you can open whatever project items you want, on 
whichever monitor you prefer.  (Perhaps you didn't realize that you 
could have two windows open on the same project?)

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 1:49:39 PM
> (Perhaps you didn't realize that you could have
>  two windows open on the same project?)

And edit in either one? RB won't get confused? If you edit something in
one window, those changes are available in the other window?

Rick

0
Rick
6/15/2005 2:24:04 PM
searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:

> and yes I will keep posting more and more things as I find them for
> anyone that cares to read them. the bad and maybe even good if I can
> even find one stinking thing that is good.

Yes, do that for me!
My english is not good enough to to find the right words for that waste.

MfG, Metti.
0
Stefan
6/15/2005 2:37:21 PM
> > Which mailing list(s)?
>
> REAL Software hosts has several of mailing lists, ranging from the
> general to the more topic-specific.  You can subscribe for
> individual-message or digest delivery, or unsubscribe, here:
>
>    <http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>

Actually, I was asking which mailing lists contained the negative
comments about RB2005.<g>


> > And if I joined one of them now, I presume I will
> > have missed all of the past messages (I think that is how mailing
lists
> > work).
>
> No, there are archives you can browse or search here:
>
>     <http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>
>
> The NUG (Network User's Group) mailing list, for example -- the most
> general one -- has archives back to October of 1997.

Okay, great! And I can view them threaded... even better! At least
looking at old messages will be in a familiar format for me then.


> > By the way, why are mailing lists the preferred method of
> > exchanging messages among RB users rather than newsgroups where an
> > archive (Google) exists for reading old messages?
>
> Yep.  The mailing lists get a lot more use, including being read by
much
> of the REAL Software staff, unlike the newsgroup.  (I know, many
people
> will give up usenet when it is pried from their cold, dead, fingers,
but
> these days the vast majority of computer users don't even have a
> newsreader, nor familiarity with some web/news interface.)  And as you
> can see, archives are not a problem.

When I first got RB5.5, I signed up for a few of the mailing list and it
seems my mailbox filled up with a diluge of disconnected messages as
several thread messages all seemed to come in all at once. I found this
overwhelming and disconcerting (being used to the newsgroup format where
I could scan for, and open, thread subjects that seemed interesting to
me). Maybe I need a pointer or two on how I should set up my email
client to organize the mailing list postings better? Oh, by the way, I
see one of the forms for the mailing lists is "Digest" mode... what is
that?


> But, FWIW, I'll still hang out here on the newsgroup to help out those
> who prefer to use it whenever I can.

I'm a VB convert, so my exposure to peer interaction has been via
newsgroups. Maybe if enough of my VB brethren come over to RB, we can
drag all of you over to the newsgroup form of peer interaction
instead.<g>


Rick

0
Rick
6/15/2005 2:37:40 PM
Joe Strout wrote:

>> How can I use my second monior?
> 
> The same way that I do, and probably the same way you do when browsing 
> the web: you open up a second window and drag it over to your second 
> monitor.  Then you can open whatever project items you want, on 
> whichever monitor you prefer.  (Perhaps you didn't realize that you 
> could have two windows open on the same project?)

I don't know, how I open my main application window on the second 
monitor. Must I open RB05 twice?
What should I do with the white backgrund? I can't see my other open 
applications :-(

MfG, Metti.
0
Stefan
6/15/2005 2:48:25 PM
the white space [like a windows mdi window] is just that - white space.
I can't see through it, work through it, or do ANYTHING through it.
it's just so pointless to have. again at least let us choose this RB UI
if we want it. For those who want a more customizable and useful UI,
let us maintain our separate windows that don't cover the screen.

As for multiple monitors, just being able to cover up the other one up
with another giant big idiot-window [as it's been called here] serves
no point. As it is now, I might as well not even have a finder/desktop,
or other apps, because since I can't see through the RB IDE, it takes
way too long to look around and work. stupid.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 3:10:49 PM
<searchbuffet@yahoo.com> wrote:

> the new interface is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting
> from hearing the gossip and rumors abound.

I don't like it, too.

So let's fill some feature requests.

<http://support.realsoftware.com/feedback/viewreport.php?reportid=wqpfhi
ie>

<http://support.realsoftware.com/feedback/viewreport.php?reportid=dsvwfp
uu>

Maybe someone else finds more requests in the same direction.

Mfg
Christian

-- 
Around ten thousand functions in one REALbasic plug-in. The MBS Plugin.
<http://www.monkeybreadsoftware.de/realbasic/plugins.shtml>
0
support
6/15/2005 3:27:34 PM
tanks christian i definitely voted for those. especially the second
one. i would urge any osx user to vote for these and again especially::
http://support.realsoftware.com/feedback/viewreport.php?reportid=dsvwfpuu

but dont take my word for it. try 2005 yourself and see if you like it.
again RS JUST MAKE THE OPTION TO MAKE IT A NORMAL OSX 'WINDOW'-BASED
APP.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 3:38:53 PM
In article <d8pf9a$15i$04$3@news.t-online.com>,
 Stefan Mettenbrink <mettenbrink.stefan@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> How can I use my second monior?
> > 
> > The same way that I do, and probably the same way you do when browsing 
> > the web: you open up a second window and drag it over to your second 
> > monitor.  Then you can open whatever project items you want, on 
> > whichever monitor you prefer.  (Perhaps you didn't realize that you 
> > could have two windows open on the same project?)
> 
> I don't know, how I open my main application window on the second 
> monitor. Must I open RB05 twice?

No, use the "New Window" menu command (again, just like in a web 
browser).

> What should I do with the white backgrund? I can't see my other open 
> applications :-(

I'm not sure what white background you're talking about.  But of course 
you can resize these windows however you please.

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 3:39:32 PM
In article <7KKdncXSCKSYpy3fRVn-sA@comcast.com>,
 "Rick Rothstein" <rickNOSPAMnews@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

> > (Perhaps you didn't realize that you could have
> >  two windows open on the same project?)
> 
> And edit in either one?

Yep.

> RB won't get confused?

Nope.

> If you edit something in one window, those changes are available
> in the other window?

Yep.  Open up the same method in both windows, and type in one, and you 
can watch yourself typing in the other.

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 3:40:32 PM
In article <ZoudnfqoL4KpoC3fRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
 "Rick Rothstein" <rickNOSPAMnews@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

> >    <http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>
> 
> Actually, I was asking which mailing lists contained the negative
> comments about RB2005.<g>

Ah, I don't know about that.  The reaction on our mailing lists has been 
pretty positive.

> When I first got RB5.5, I signed up for a few of the mailing list and it
> seems my mailbox filled up with a diluge of disconnected messages as
> several thread messages all seemed to come in all at once. I found this
> overwhelming and disconcerting (being used to the newsgroup format where
> I could scan for, and open, thread subjects that seemed interesting to
> me). Maybe I need a pointer or two on how I should set up my email
> client to organize the mailing list postings better?

Yes, but you'd be best off asking the makers or other users of your 
email client about that.  Most email clients can arrange incoming 
messages into threads, just like a news client.  In both cases that 
behavior is a function of the client, not of the type of delivery.

> Oh, by the way, I see one of the forms for the mailing lists is
> "Digest" mode... what is that?

That's where new messages are queued up on the server until they reach a 
certain number, and then they're pasted together (with a 
table-of-contents style summary at the top) and delivered to you in a 
single message.  Then it starts again.  So you get fewer entries in your 
mailbox, but each one is big.  Some people prefer it, but if you're used 
to news, I imagine you'll prefer to get individual messages.

> > But, FWIW, I'll still hang out here on the newsgroup to help out those
> > who prefer to use it whenever I can.
> 
> I'm a VB convert, so my exposure to peer interaction has been via
> newsgroups. Maybe if enough of my VB brethren come over to RB, we can
> drag all of you over to the newsgroup form of peer interaction
> instead.<g>

Who knows, maybe you will!

Speaking of VB converts, I'm glad you're here -- one of the things I'd 
like to start doing soon is gathering a community to use and test a new 
VB-to-RB converter.  This will be an open-source project, so people can 
participate at any level from just kibitzing to contributing new code.  
But that should be another thread...

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 3:45:59 PM
searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
> not sure how you get more than one project open in the single big-idiot
> window? when I load the new 2005 version I get the single big-idiot
> interface and then load up another project and get a whole new second
> big-idiot window. I dont see a way to open up more than 1 project in
> one big-idiot window. if there is please tell me so I can try.

You open each project in it's own instance of RB. The "big-idiot window" 
acts as a container so both you and RB can tell one project from 
another. Previous versions of RB did not allow having more than one 
project open at a time. This was a show stopper for me since I tend to 
reuse a fair amount of code.

All big changes take some getting used to but the general navigational 
feel of 2005 is much easier than 5x for the uninitiated. I look at the 
number of clicks it takes for me to get common tasks done and 2005 cut 
that count in at least half.


> but even then this doesnt solve much as the giant white background is
> taking up so much unneeded space on my monitor that I cant see through
> to work efficiently. lewis - being a windows user this probably is
> normal, but on the mac side, its not and greatly hinders efficiency and
> workflow.

I seldom run any window maximized on my laptop's 1920x1200 screen. I 
agree that it would be nice to have multiple objects visible at the same 
time in the "giant white background" but the Multiple Document Interface 
has fallen out of favor these days.
0
Lewis
6/15/2005 3:49:57 PM
Joe:: that is only half-usable if you have 2 30" monitors. With the big
window MDI interface it is now, there is no way to make this even 1/4
as efficient or usable as with multiple windows open.

This would be great if that giant white background window wasn't there.
Otherwise it covers up both of my entire 30" desktops, which is
pointless and ridiculous. Id hate to see users that are using even less
equipment that I. The idea of multiple windows of the same project is
nice, and the idea itself works when implementeted right:: as in
photoshop where I can make a New Window/View of any window and any
edits I do in one update in the other in realtime. this I wont argue
with :: its useful. but the way youve implemented it, its just not. why
not make the option to have multiple windows [minus the giant back
white filler space] and then we can open a new window/view of it if
wanted/needed??? take some tips from photoshop on this one. theres just
no comparison to the fundamental design basics used here

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 3:51:38 PM
Joe Strout wrote:

> No, use the "New Window" menu command (again, just like in a web 
> browser).

I don' think, that I want use RB as a web browser. I don't want open a 
new window. I want open an existing window from my existing (and open) 
project.

> I'm not sure what white background you're talking about.  But of course 
> you can resize these windows however you please.

I don't need so many withe space in the MDI-like window. I don' want 
always change the windows size. I like the IDE in RB 5.5 and no need to 
change it.

MfG, Metti.
0
Stefan
6/15/2005 4:49:41 PM
In article <42b04e3e$1_1@news.iglou.com>,
 Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:

> You open each project in it's own instance of RB. The "big-idiot window" 
> acts as a container so both you and RB can tell one project from 
> another. Previous versions of RB did not allow having more than one 
> project open at a time. This was a show stopper for me since I tend to 
> reuse a fair amount of code.

That's all right, except, to be clear, you're not opening each project 
in its own instance of REALbasic.  There's only one instance of 
REALbasic running; but it can open as many projects as you like, each in 
its own window (or windows).

> All big changes take some getting used to but the general navigational 
> feel of 2005 is much easier than 5x for the uninitiated. I look at the 
> number of clicks it takes for me to get common tasks done and 2005 cut 
> that count in at least half.

Yes, that's what we find too (and of course, what we were going for with 
the redesign).

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 4:52:25 PM
The problem with this is that RS management is that they are all knowing in
their own minds - they know what is best for you, and they don't make
mistakes. This is the typical God complex developed in upper management .

Man, I could only imagine how horrible Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop
would be without the tool pallets - I would have never have bought either
of them without the pallets.

As a pro user from 3.0 to 5.5 I don't like being told by a company that I
can go to hell. I've invested a lot of money in a product which is no
longer upgradeable. But once again we are taking about a company which
apparently has no morals what so ever - what would you expect other than
another Microsoft.

0
kcooddeerr
6/15/2005 5:11:27 PM
Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:

>Ah, I don't know about that.  The reaction on our mailing lists has been 
>pretty positive.

Then you must be reading some other mailing list. My estimate is that the
response is about 99-1 negative. And strongly negative!

0
nobody
6/15/2005 5:20:00 PM
So Joe if you would be so kind to reply to any of my questions::
why couldn't RB have been done like the new window functions in apps
like photoshop [and many others]? this would make much more sense in
the case of a person wanting more than 1 view of a window.
As for the more than one project open at a time, this too is easily
doable without the giant background window. the 'all in one' [or none
in my case] interface wouldnt help or hinder the notion of multiple
projects, as would doing it in the more favorable in the mac world
palette type. the mac interface is useless if programs start to go the
way of the rb2005 IDE

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 5:21:13 PM
Joe Strout wrote:
> In article <ZoudnfqoL4KpoC3fRVn-tw@comcast.com>,
>  "Rick Rothstein" <rickNOSPAMnews@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
>>I'm a VB convert, so my exposure to peer interaction has been via
>>newsgroups. Maybe if enough of my VB brethren come over to RB, we can
>>drag all of you over to the newsgroup form of peer interaction
>>instead.<g>
> 
> 
> Who knows, maybe you will!
> 
> Speaking of VB converts, I'm glad you're here -- one of the things I'd 
> like to start doing soon is gathering a community to use and test a new 
> VB-to-RB converter.  This will be an open-source project, so people can 
> participate at any level from just kibitzing to contributing new code.  
> But that should be another thread...

The best of luck with converting Rick's code :-)

You might like to start with these:

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=one-liner&as_uauthors=rothstein

-- 
Steve Garman
0
Steve
6/15/2005 6:28:38 PM
 > Speaking of VB converts, I'm glad you're here -- one of the things
I'd
> > like to start doing soon is gathering a community to use and test a
new
> > VB-to-RB converter.  This will be an open-source project, so people
can
> > participate at any level from just kibitzing to contributing new
code.
> > But that should be another thread...
>
> The best of luck with converting Rick's code :-)
>
> You might like to start with these:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=one-liner&as_uauthors=rothstein

Be nice Steve... RB is a new language for me, maybe I'll turn over a new
leaf and give up my one-liners.<g>

Rick

0
Rick
6/15/2005 6:47:10 PM
searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
> tanks christian i definitely voted for those. especially the second
> one. i would urge any osx user to vote for these and again especially::
> http://support.realsoftware.com/feedback/viewreport.php?reportid=dsvwfpuu
> 
> but dont take my word for it. try 2005 yourself and see if you like it.
> again RS JUST MAKE THE OPTION TO MAKE IT A NORMAL OSX 'WINDOW'-BASED
> APP.
> 
I read this thread and have watched 2005 in use. I'm not impressed with 
the fact the IDE leaves artifacts (edit fields!) when you resize. It's 
really sloppy. It compiles fine, so the issues are IDE related.

I'm not going to be purchasing 2005 or whatever it will be until next 
year at the earliest. I want to make sure what 5.5 work I have receives 
my full attention, gets done, and makes a few bucks for me.

More importantly, I finally have Xcode using FreePascal with IB Carbon 
nibs. This means I have my little "Delphi-like" world with the features 
of Xcode to make my day warm and fuzzy. I like Interface Builder (some 
don't, I realize) and am hoping we eventually find a way to use the 
dynamic Cocoa nibs with an Objective-C wrapper for FPC.

Real Software's IDE feels just too darn Windows-like for me. I hate the 
new Apple Mail application, too. (Apple seems to have UI schitzophrenia, 
with six or seven different interface standards. It's weird.) Mac 
"professional" applications should be like Photoshop, not Safari. Oh, 
well. It's an emotional thing for Mac users.

I'm not impressed, yet, but at least Real is still making tools for the 
Mac. I can't say the same for Symantec, Freescale, or any number of dead 
or dying tool companies. There is a Prograph clone out there, and a few 
other tools. We'll see what the next year holds.

Real has time to add Mac-like options. Not everyone rushes to a X.0 
release, anyway.

- Scott
0
Scott
6/15/2005 9:25:10 PM
In article <d8pmej$n18$01$2@news.t-online.com>,
 Stefan Mettenbrink <mettenbrink.stefan@t-online.de> wrote:

> Joe Strout wrote:
> 
> > No, use the "New Window" menu command (again, just like in a web 
> > browser).
> 
> I don' think, that I want use RB as a web browser. I don't want open a 
> new window. I want open an existing window from my existing (and open) 
> project.

That's what the "New Window" command does.  Have you tried it?  I think 
you're imagining something different from how it actually works.

> > I'm not sure what white background you're talking about.  But of course 
> > you can resize these windows however you please.
> 
> I don't need so many withe space in the MDI-like window. I don' want 
> always change the windows size. I like the IDE in RB 5.5 and no need to 
> change it.

Well, our research indicated differently.  Try it for a while and I 
think you may discover how much more productive you are with the new UI.

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/15/2005 9:46:13 PM
>> That "one big idiot window" allows you to load more than one
>> project at a time. A BIG improvement if you ask me...

How the hell are those two concepts connected???  CodeWarrior doesn't
use the "one big idiot window" paradigm, but I can open multiple
projects in that.  One thing I liked about RB was that its project file
and window relationship was very similar to CodeWarrior's.

My recommendation is for RB to do what Apple has done with Xcode 2.0:
give the user choice of views.  If you prefer the all-in-one Windows
way, choose it...if you prefer to be more like RB used to be, select
that.  (In Xcode, I have it changed to the CodeWarrior/Old-RB way).

By forcing a change that nobody asked for (with no allowance to go back
to the old way if you wanted), RealSoftware has essentially brought
this on itself.  The answer seems simple to me: give the user choice in
version 2005 Release 2.  Then everybody will be happy.  In fact, given
the outcry so far, it ought to be the top priority.

Choice is a good thing.  I believe in RealSoftware that they will do
the right thing.  It just might take a release to get there, but I do
believe in them.

Jonathan Hoyle
Eastman Kodak

0
jonhoyle
6/15/2005 10:10:21 PM
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Rick Rothstein wrote in 
<ZoudnfqoL4KpoC3fRVn-tw@comcast.com>

>I'm a VB convert, so my exposure to peer interaction has been via 
>newsgroups. Maybe if enough of my VB brethren come over to RB, we can 
>drag all of you over to the newsgroup form of peer interaction 
>instead.<g>

Classic newsgroups would be better, but my newsreader/mail client is set 
up to view the mailing lists as newsgroups, the interface is virtually 
identical and emails are stored in the newsgroup database.
Does OE not have this facility?

-- 
Richard Mason
0
Richard
6/15/2005 10:25:10 PM
Couldn't have been said better Jonathan. rb should offer the choice for
us to make. I too dont see any relationship with the big idiot-window
and opening multiple projects and have no idea how RS is trying to
justify this or even say they are connected.

and yes Joe I have tried it. and no it does not work like photoshop's
new window feature does. the new window command in RB only brings up
another giant bloated window [which slows things down 2x for each 'new
window' that is open]. this is a far cry from the normal function of a
new window type of view used by other developers [that in my experience
has been insanely better than yours]. i think RS got too lazy and quick
to get 2005 out the door that they just settled for this 1/2assed new
window thing. if you guys can somehow honestly rationalize this to
yourself, you have been working in RB WAY too long yourself.
again I dont know what research you did or what firm you used if you
outsourced it. but it is flawed very badly.

0
searchbuffet
6/15/2005 10:26:12 PM
searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
> i have to admit that i was excited to finally see the rb2005 release
> today. i downloaded the update and entered my new serial and.
> this is absolutely horrid.
> 
> I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
> and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
> is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
> the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
> visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
> like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience. i was hoping
> for at least the possibility to edit windows in well, separate windows.
> isnt that why they are called windows???? this horrible IDE that uses
> the tabs is so slow and hinders development incredibly. again i can not
> believe that this made it out the door and they expect us to actually
> use it.
> 
> how am i supposed to design an even simple program without having the
> window I'm designing to look at and the related code in a SEPARATE
> window? as it is now I cant view them in separate windows which means
> that i cant view them both at the same time.
> 
> I have been a realbasic customer for many years and this is absurd. i
> am very disappointed and have completely lost faith in this development
> environment. with such high hopes, even the smallest of things didnt
> get implemented in this. and after all of the dreadful user interface
> problems, the thing is very buggy at best. this is DEFINITELY NOT A
> VERSION ONE RELEASE. talk about a push to get this thing out the door.
> 
> geoff and joe i hope you are listening. i highly doubtt i'm the only
> one that feels this way. time will tell i guess. if you were going
> after windows vb users you have probably won your goal. but for your
> loyal mac users, i think its time to say goodbye.
> 
> yes people. rb 2005's interface is just as bad as it has been rumored.
> try it for yourself and please let me know how you feel because i am
> positive i'm not alone here. lets see how you think after trying it

I completely agree (I just didn't want to write). Well said!
0
Arnaud
6/15/2005 10:31:45 PM
searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
> tanks christian i definitely voted for those. especially the second
> one. i would urge any osx user to vote for these and again especially::
> http://support.realsoftware.com/feedback/viewreport.php?reportid=dsvwfpuu
> 
> but dont take my word for it. try 2005 yourself and see if you like it.
> again RS JUST MAKE THE OPTION TO MAKE IT A NORMAL OSX 'WINDOW'-BASED
> APP.

I certainly want to vote but... I get "Report not found" for both of 
them. Are they afraid of receiving too many votes for deleting these 
reports?
0
Arnaud
6/15/2005 11:01:24 PM
searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:

> I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
> and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
> is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
> the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
> visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
> like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience.

Totally agreed. Also, not only the interface is wrong, the language 
itself. Such as, from the "'important' changes for 5.5 projects.txt" 
file (close your eyes, if you want):

[Dep] [All] Window: Deprecated GrowIcon, please use Resizeable instead.
             Deprecated ZoomIcon, please use MaximizeButton instead.
             Deprecated CloseBox, please use CloseButton instead.
             Deprecated AcceptMacDataDrop, please use AcceptRawDataDrop
             instead.

Guess which OS specifically use those terms?

[Dep] [All] MenuItem: Deprecated CommandKey, please use
             KeyboardShortcut instead.

Same here...

[Dep] [All] LittleArrows: Deprecated the LittleArrows control, please
             use the UpDownArrows control instead.

(I think there too)...

[Dep] [All] DragItem: Deprecated MacDataAvailable, please use
             RawDataAvailable instead.  Deprecated MacData, please use
             RawData instead.  Deprecated PrivateMacData, please use
             PrivateRawData instead.

As well as there...

[Dep] [All] Clipboard: Deprecated MacDataAvailable, please use
             RawDataAvailable instead.  Deprecated MacData, please use
             RawData instead.  Deprecated AddMacData, please use
             AddRawData instead.

....and there...

[Dep] [All] Intrinsic Functions: Deprecated IsCMMClick, please use
             IsContextualClick.  Deprecated AppleMenuFolder with no
             replacement.  Deprecated ExtensionsFolder with no
             replacement.  Deprecated ControlPanelsFolder with no
             replacement.

Here, the specifics apple folders have really gone!

Also note that Aaraon Ballman has written most of the other files in the 
"read me" folder. I don't dislike him at all, but he is one of the Win32 
programmers for RB.

Win32 is also listed clearly most of the time in the first place. (well, 
I don't completely want to get rid of Win32 in the doc, but it reveals, 
as you said, that RB is going too much near vb).

Clearly, as a Mac user, I will keep a 5.5 version and forget about news.

> geoff and joe i hope you are listening. i highly doubtt i'm the only
> one that feels this way. time will tell i guess. if you were going
> after windows vb users you have probably won your goal. but for your
> loyal mac users, i think its time to say goodbye.

I'm in the boat.

P.S: my intend is not to hurt someone. I admit that my english is not 
perfect and so, that I may have done it without wanting so. I apologize 
if that's the case.
0
Arnaud
6/15/2005 11:23:18 PM
> >I'm a VB convert, so my exposure to peer interaction has been via
> >newsgroups. Maybe if enough of my VB brethren come over to RB, we can
> >drag all of you over to the newsgroup form of peer interaction
> >instead.<g>
>
> Classic newsgroups would be better, but my newsreader/mail client is
set
> up to view the mailing lists as newsgroups, the interface is virtually
> identical and emails are stored in the newsgroup database.
> Does OE not have this facility?

I don't think it has exactly what you are talking about. I think I can
create a "rule" to examine the Subject line (or maybe it would be the
From line) to see if the mailing list name is in it and, if so, direct
that message to a folder of my choosing. I guess if the Subject lines
are not changed, then the messages can be displayed by threads. I don't
know, though, but this whole mailing list concept seems "strange" to me,
especially since there is a public newsgroup (this one) already in
existence covering REALbasic.

Rick

0
Rick
6/16/2005 12:10:03 AM
My God that is horrible!

This only further cofirms the utter evilness of RS. I frankly have had
enough of RS's lies, but hey, if they don't give a damn about their former
core Mac user base any longer maybe my state's Attorney General  will lend
a ear.

0
kcooddeerr
6/16/2005 12:13:05 AM
Thanks RS for putting this on your release notes (I've archieved a pdf
file) - it will come in handy:

"More Compatible with Visual Basic
The development environment and language for REALbasic 2005 have been
modified to more closely resemble the behavior of Visual Basic."

0
kcooddeerr
6/16/2005 12:49:16 AM
In article <42b0b93f$0$1153$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>,
 Arnaud Nicolet <arnau@tribu.ch> wrote:

> searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> > I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
> > and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
> > is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
> > the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
> > visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
> > like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience.
> 
> Totally agreed. Also, not only the interface is wrong, the language 
> itself. Such as, from the "'important' changes for 5.5 projects.txt" 
> file (close your eyes, if you want):
> 
> [Dep] [All] Window: Deprecated GrowIcon, please use Resizeable instead.
>              Deprecated ZoomIcon, please use MaximizeButton instead.
>              Deprecated CloseBox, please use CloseButton instead.
>              Deprecated AcceptMacDataDrop, please use AcceptRawDataDrop
>              instead.
> 
> Guess which OS specifically use those terms?
> 
> [Dep] [All] MenuItem: Deprecated CommandKey, please use
>              KeyboardShortcut instead.
> 
> Same here...
> 
> [Dep] [All] LittleArrows: Deprecated the LittleArrows control, please
>              use the UpDownArrows control instead.
> 
> (I think there too)...
> 
> [Dep] [All] DragItem: Deprecated MacDataAvailable, please use
>              RawDataAvailable instead.  Deprecated MacData, please use
>              RawData instead.  Deprecated PrivateMacData, please use
>              PrivateRawData instead.
> 
> As well as there...
> 
> [Dep] [All] Clipboard: Deprecated MacDataAvailable, please use
>              RawDataAvailable instead.  Deprecated MacData, please use
>              RawData instead.  Deprecated AddMacData, please use
>              AddRawData instead.
> 
> ...and there...
> 
> [Dep] [All] Intrinsic Functions: Deprecated IsCMMClick, please use
>              IsContextualClick.  Deprecated AppleMenuFolder with no
>              replacement.  Deprecated ExtensionsFolder with no
>              replacement.  Deprecated ControlPanelsFolder with no
>              replacement.
> 
<snip>

This is silly.

RB is a cross platform dev environment. It makes sense to change the 
names of some of these items to something less platform specific.

For example: I am a mac developer and haven't yet created a windows 
version of my app. However I was recently working on some clipboard 
stuff and was wondering if PrivateMacData was for macs only or was it 
X-platform - it took me a while to figure out it *was* X-platform and 
then I started wondering why it had that name. PrivateRawData makes much 
more sense.  Same goes for the other stuff.

Peter
0
Joe
6/16/2005 1:16:43 AM
Dave Houston wrote:

> While it's OK under XP, it quickly became painfully obvious that they have
> nobody on their staff with even a minimal understanding of serial comms. 

I spent some time with Aaron Ballman at REALWorld 2005 and found him to 
be quite knowledgeable about serial communications.


> Their attitude seems to be, "This is the epitome of perfection and you will
> like it." (See any Joe Strout post for an example.) Obviously, they are
> satisfied serving the miniscule market they now have.

I don't think that is true.

The problem with previous versions of RB was a fairly steep learning 
curve mostly due to a convoluted IDE. They have addressed that and are 
actively seeking converts from other languages - most visibly VB.

My hope is that the language grows and the rapid release model they are 
pursuing works. The whole idea of rapid release is the opposite of 
thinking that the current release is "the epitome of perfection". I find 
their pricing structure more than fair and all of their staff very 
approachable. I am not the sharpest tool in the drawer and I have never 
received a condescending remark from any of them.


> I find their documentation amateurish. I find their use of mailing lists
> amateurish. (I have a low frustration level and do not like wending my way
> through page after page of senseless drivel to glean an occasional nugget of
> useful information.) With VB it's easy to find tens (or hundreds) of online
> code snippets to answer almost any question. With RB, it's nearly impossible
> to find any.
> 
> I really like some RB features but I do not have the time to spend hours,
> days or weeks trying to accomplish things that I can do in VB in minutes.

I am still WAY more comfortable with VB than RB but you have to realize 
VB as we know it is no longer being developed by Microsoft so a 
replacement is in order. After looking various options RB is the best 
fit for me.

I prefer newsgroups to mail lists. Hopefully a critical mass will move 
over here from the mail lists.


> I'll try the 2005 demo in the next day or so but am not about to risk even
> the $50 upgrade price if the demo doesn't show they've learned how to do
> serial comms. As you know, my machines tend to have a dozen or more serial
> ports.

I tend to outboard most serial devices using Lantronix serial servers. I 
have not tried doing that in RB but it doesn't look like it should be a 
problem.

What sort of problems are you having?


> I assume that the demo will not allow me to compile my app so I'm not sure
> it will answer my questions. I do not pay for software that I have to then
> debug and I don't have the time to be a beta tester.

If you need one or two compiles for testing that should not be a problem...
0
Lewis
6/16/2005 1:19:58 AM
Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:

>Dave Houston wrote:
>
>> While it's OK under XP, it quickly became painfully obvious that they have
>> nobody on their staff with even a minimal understanding of serial comms. 
>
>I spent some time with Aaron Ballman at REALWorld 2005 and found him to 
>be quite knowledgeable about serial communications.

I beg to differ! VERY, VERY STRONGLY! 

While he quickly fixed the bugs I reported, that should never have been
necessary.

Any company that would release 5.5.5 with the bugs it had in serial comms is
clueless. It did not enumerate the ports correctly. It would blithely open
COM1 if you asked it to open a non-existent port. I have serious
reservations about using anything from a company that made it to version
5.5.5 without understanding serial comms. I still expect there will be
performance issues with multiple ports & multiple streams.

....

>> I assume that the demo will not allow me to compile my app so I'm not sure
>> it will answer my questions. I do not pay for software that I have to then
>> debug and I don't have the time to be a beta tester.
>
>If you need one or two compiles for testing that should not be a problem...

I've bought the $50 upgrade. I can compile under XP. I cannot compile nor
run in the IDE under W98SE.
0
nobody
6/16/2005 2:40:59 AM
On 6/15/05 10:40 PM, in article 42b0e3cf.42826603@nntp.fuse.net, "Dave
Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote:

> Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dave Houston wrote:
>> 
>>> While it's OK under XP, it quickly became painfully obvious that they have
>>> nobody on their staff with even a minimal understanding of serial comms.
>> 
>> I spent some time with Aaron Ballman at REALWorld 2005 and found him to
>> be quite knowledgeable about serial communications.
> 
> I beg to differ! VERY, VERY STRONGLY!
> 
> While he quickly fixed the bugs I reported, that should never have been
> necessary.
> 
> Any company that would release 5.5.5 with the bugs it had in serial comms is
> clueless. It did not enumerate the ports correctly. It would blithely open
> COM1 if you asked it to open a non-existent port. I have serious
> reservations about using anything from a company that made it to version
> 5.5.5 without understanding serial comms. I still expect there will be
> performance issues with multiple ports & multiple streams.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
>>> I assume that the demo will not allow me to compile my app so I'm not sure
>>> it will answer my questions. I do not pay for software that I have to then
>>> debug and I don't have the time to be a beta tester.
>> 
>> If you need one or two compiles for testing that should not be a problem...
> 
> I've bought the $50 upgrade. I can compile under XP. I cannot compile nor
> run in the IDE under W98SE.

I am surprised they (RS) even wanted to support W98(SE) since Microsoft
stopped supporting it in 2002.

Robert

0
Robert
6/16/2005 3:01:46 AM
Joe Strout wrote:

> That's what the "New Window" command does.  Have you tried it?  I think 
> you're imagining something different from how it actually works.

Maybe.
I will test the next days and hope the best.
But the white background is terrible!
And the appsize is mutch bigger than before. My app grows from 11,3MB to 
16,6MB (Mac) and 15,4 to 22,6MB (Win). I don't know why.

> Well, our research indicated differently.  Try it for a while and I 
> think you may discover how much more productive you are with the new UI.

OK.
But I can't see my other open applications. I think, I dont find anytime 
that this was a good idea.

MfG, Metti.
0
Stefan
6/16/2005 3:26:03 AM
These changes where all made to either be more clear or to provide a
more cross platform name. Even Mac OS X refers to the window buttons as
Minimize and Maximize buttons.

And I believe that the SpecialFolders module (new in REALbasic 2005)
provides access to all of the deprecated folders mentioned above.

Geoff Perlman
President and CEO
REAL Software, Inc.

0
geoff
6/16/2005 4:43:37 AM
Rick Rothstein wrote:
>>>I'm a VB convert, so my exposure to peer interaction has been via
>>>newsgroups. Maybe if enough of my VB brethren come over to RB, we can
>>>drag all of you over to the newsgroup form of peer interaction
>>>instead.<g>
>>
>>Classic newsgroups would be better, but my newsreader/mail client is
> 
> set
> 
>>up to view the mailing lists as newsgroups, the interface is virtually
>>identical and emails are stored in the newsgroup database.
>>Does OE not have this facility?
> 
> 
> I don't think it has exactly what you are talking about. I think I can
> create a "rule" to examine the Subject line (or maybe it would be the
> From line) to see if the mailing list name is in it and, if so, direct
> that message to a folder of my choosing. I guess if the Subject lines
> are not changed, then the messages can be displayed by threads. I don't
> know, though, but this whole mailing list concept seems "strange" to me,
> especially since there is a public newsgroup (this one) already in
> existence covering REALbasic.
> 

I think that there's no need to inspect the Subject line. I'm not
subscribed to the Realbasic mailing list (I'm not using it either,
but I'm interested in what's going on).

Anyway, I'm subscribed to some mailing lists of the Apache foun-
dation. All mails going to the list have the same entry in the
To field. This field doesn't contain your e-mail-address, but
the mailing lists's one instead. So it is enought to filter for
this field.

I assume Real's lists show similar behaviour.

HTH,
Gerald
0
Gerald
6/16/2005 6:30:15 AM
> I think that there's no need to inspect the Subject line. I'm not
> subscribed to the Realbasic mailing list (I'm not using it either,
> but I'm interested in what's going on).
>
> Anyway, I'm subscribed to some mailing lists of the Apache foun-
> dation. All mails going to the list have the same entry in the
> To field. This field doesn't contain your e-mail-address, but
> the mailing lists's one instead. So it is enought to filter for
> this field.

Okay, thanks for that. I'll give it a try. Still... newsgroups seem to
make so much more sense to me. When time permits and I want to "get
involved", I visit the newsgroup and catch up on what's going on. With
mailing list, I'm guessing mail is continually coming in. That means I
won't be able to count on my little envelope icon to tell me when new
"real" mail has arrived as I presume every message from the mailing list
will trigger the icon's appearance.

Rick

0
Rick
6/16/2005 8:16:58 AM
Gerald Aichholzer <gary@sbox.tugraz.at> wrote:
>
>Anyway, I'm subscribed to some mailing lists of the Apache foun-
>dation. All mails going to the list have the same entry in the
>To field. This field doesn't contain your e-mail-address, but
>the mailing lists's one instead. So it is enought to filter for
>this field.
>
>I assume Real's lists show similar behaviour.

No. They use your address in the To: field and use whatever the subject is
in the Subject: field. There's no way to filter so you open yourself up to
all kinds of spam if you join their lists. As I said elsewhere - amateurish.

0
nobody
6/16/2005 10:14:05 AM
Robert <sigzero@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 6/15/05 10:40 PM, in article 42b0e3cf.42826603@nntp.fuse.net, "Dave
>Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote:
>
>> Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dave Houston wrote:
>>> 
>>>> While it's OK under XP, it quickly became painfully obvious that they have
>>>> nobody on their staff with even a minimal understanding of serial comms.
>>> 
>>> I spent some time with Aaron Ballman at REALWorld 2005 and found him to
>>> be quite knowledgeable about serial communications.
>> 
>> I beg to differ! VERY, VERY STRONGLY!
>> 
>> While he quickly fixed the bugs I reported, that should never have been
>> necessary.
>> 
>> Any company that would release 5.5.5 with the bugs it had in serial comms is
>> clueless. It did not enumerate the ports correctly. It would blithely open
>> COM1 if you asked it to open a non-existent port. I have serious
>> reservations about using anything from a company that made it to version
>> 5.5.5 without understanding serial comms. I still expect there will be
>> performance issues with multiple ports & multiple streams.
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> 
>>>> I assume that the demo will not allow me to compile my app so I'm not sure
>>>> it will answer my questions. I do not pay for software that I have to then
>>>> debug and I don't have the time to be a beta tester.
>>> 
>>> If you need one or two compiles for testing that should not be a problem...
>> 
>> I've bought the $50 upgrade. I can compile under XP. I cannot compile nor
>> run in the IDE under W98SE.
>
>I am surprised they (RS) even wanted to support W98(SE) since Microsoft
>stopped supporting it in 2002.

In which case they should remove it from the RB OS support list. As long as
they claim to support it, they should actually support it. As it is now, I
get "Cannot load framework library for Win32" when I try to Run or Build.

Most of the software I create is freeware for those with physical
disabilities. Often, they cannot afford the latest hardware or OS. 
0
nobody
6/16/2005 10:28:23 AM
Rick Rothstein wrote:
>>I think that there's no need to inspect the Subject line. I'm not
>>subscribed to the Realbasic mailing list (I'm not using it either,
>>but I'm interested in what's going on).
>>
>>Anyway, I'm subscribed to some mailing lists of the Apache foun-
>>dation. All mails going to the list have the same entry in the
>>To field. This field doesn't contain your e-mail-address, but
>>the mailing lists's one instead. So it is enought to filter for
>>this field.
> 
> 
> Okay, thanks for that. I'll give it a try. Still... newsgroups seem to
> make so much more sense to me. When time permits and I want to "get
> involved", I visit the newsgroup and catch up on what's going on. With

This is exactly what I'm thinking, too. If you filter the messages and
move them in a separate folder, your e-mail client will thread them
automatically and it will look similar to newsgroups for you.

> mailing list, I'm guessing mail is continually coming in. That means I
> won't be able to count on my little envelope icon to tell me when new
> "real" mail has arrived as I presume every message from the mailing list
> will trigger the icon's appearance.

This is the annoying disadvantage. If the mailing list is very busy
the envelope icon will show up continously :/

You could mark the mailing list messages as read, but then you won't
be able to find the new ones (except manually by inspecting the date).

Gerald
0
Gerald
6/16/2005 10:45:56 AM
Dave Houston wrote:
> Gerald Aichholzer <gary@sbox.tugraz.at> wrote:
> 
>>Anyway, I'm subscribed to some mailing lists of the Apache foun-
>>dation. All mails going to the list have the same entry in the
>>To field. This field doesn't contain your e-mail-address, but
>>the mailing lists's one instead. So it is enought to filter for
>>this field.
>>
>>I assume Real's lists show similar behaviour.
> 
> 
> No. They use your address in the To: field and use whatever the subject is
> in the Subject: field. There's no way to filter so you open yourself up to
> all kinds of spam if you join their lists. As I said elsewhere - amateurish.
> 

I agree that the current solution is not good. In this case it
is better to set up a new e-mail address for the mailing list
only (so that easy filering can be applied).

Gerald
0
Gerald
6/16/2005 10:48:41 AM
> In which case they should remove it from the RB OS support list. As long as
> they claim to support it, they should actually support it. As it is now, I
> get "Cannot load framework library for Win32" when I try to Run or Build.
> 
> Most of the software I create is freeware for those with physical
> disabilities. Often, they cannot afford the latest hardware or OS.

My app (built with 5.5.5) runs fine under Win98.

Markus

0
Markus
6/16/2005 11:08:18 AM
geoff@realsoftware.com wrote:
> These changes where all made to either be more clear or to provide a
> more cross platform name. Even Mac OS X refers to the window buttons as
> Minimize and Maximize buttons.

Ok, I didn't know Mac OS X changed their references. At least, Mac OS 
classic still uses the Zoom button terms (I admit that it is the single 
one).
However, I still think everything was first thought in a Win32 fashion.

> And I believe that the SpecialFolders module (new in REALbasic 2005)
> provides access to all of the deprecated folders mentioned above.

Here's the result (based on the changes deprecated):
"Deprecated AppleMenuFolder with no replacement."
"Deprecated ExtensionsFolder with no replacement."
"Deprecated ControlPanelsFolder with no replacement."

 From the "Language reference", "SpecialModules" section:

First, Mac OS classic is not shown in the table.
AppleMenu: MacOS X is nil (obviously, because there is no customizable 
AppleMenu). Result: Only Win32 shows a value for this one.

ExtensionsFolder: MacOS X is again nil (but the "Extensions" folder 
exists on MacOS X). Same result.

ControlPanelsFolder: All is nil (the table doesn't inform why this 
function exists).

I surely can understand your enthusiasm which we see in the posts from 
you and Joe (a new product for which you have sincerely worked). 
However, it's not my (and other) case.
0
Arnaud
6/16/2005 11:27:59 AM
Joe wrote:
> In article <42b0b93f$0$1153$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>,
>  Arnaud Nicolet <arnau@tribu.ch> wrote:
> 
> 
>>searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I can not believe that they released this buggy piece of you know what
>>>and called it 1.0. it is slow as molasses on my g4. the new interface
>>>is much worse than i ever imagined or was even expecting from hearing
>>>the gossip and rumors abound. this was quite obviously made for the
>>>visual basic programmers and for windows users. there is nothing mac
>>>like or even remotely easy or similar to a mac experience.
>>
>>Totally agreed. Also, not only the interface is wrong, the language 
>>itself. Such as, from the "'important' changes for 5.5 projects.txt" 
>>file (close your eyes, if you want):
>>
>>[Dep] [All] Window: Deprecated GrowIcon, please use Resizeable instead.
>>             Deprecated ZoomIcon, please use MaximizeButton instead.
>>             Deprecated CloseBox, please use CloseButton instead.
>>             Deprecated AcceptMacDataDrop, please use AcceptRawDataDrop
>>             instead.
>>
>>Guess which OS specifically use those terms?
>>
>>[Dep] [All] MenuItem: Deprecated CommandKey, please use
>>             KeyboardShortcut instead.
>>
>>Same here...
>>
>>[Dep] [All] LittleArrows: Deprecated the LittleArrows control, please
>>             use the UpDownArrows control instead.
>>
>>(I think there too)...
>>
>>[Dep] [All] DragItem: Deprecated MacDataAvailable, please use
>>             RawDataAvailable instead.  Deprecated MacData, please use
>>             RawData instead.  Deprecated PrivateMacData, please use
>>             PrivateRawData instead.
>>
>>As well as there...
>>
>>[Dep] [All] Clipboard: Deprecated MacDataAvailable, please use
>>             RawDataAvailable instead.  Deprecated MacData, please use
>>             RawData instead.  Deprecated AddMacData, please use
>>             AddRawData instead.
>>
>>...and there...
>>
>>[Dep] [All] Intrinsic Functions: Deprecated IsCMMClick, please use
>>             IsContextualClick.  Deprecated AppleMenuFolder with no
>>             replacement.  Deprecated ExtensionsFolder with no
>>             replacement.  Deprecated ControlPanelsFolder with no
>>             replacement.
>>
> 
> <snip>
> 
> This is silly.
> 
> RB is a cross platform dev environment. It makes sense to change the 
> names of some of these items to something less platform specific.


It is not less platform specific, it is less Mac specific and more Win32 
specific (all I want is an equality).


> For example: I am a mac developer and haven't yet created a windows 
> version of my app. However I was recently working on some clipboard 
> stuff and was wondering if PrivateMacData was for macs only or was it 
> X-platform - it took me a while to figure out it *was* X-platform and 
> then I started wondering why it had that name. PrivateRawData makes much 
> more sense.

Yes, for the Clipboard and DragItem classes, I understand.

> Same goes for the other stuff.

Rarely.
0
Arnaud
6/16/2005 11:31:31 AM
kcooddeerr wrote:
> Thanks RS for putting this on your release notes (I've archieved a pdf
> file) - it will come in handy:
> 
> "More Compatible with Visual Basic
> The development environment and language for REALbasic 2005 have been
> modified to more closely resemble the behavior of Visual Basic."

That's explicit.
By the way: I couldn't find it in the "Release notes.txt" file; are they 
different?
0
Arnaud
6/16/2005 11:33:18 AM
Markus <notgiven@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> In which case they should remove it from the RB OS support list. As long as
>> they claim to support it, they should actually support it. As it is now, I
>> get "Cannot load framework library for Win32" when I try to Run or Build.
>> 
>> Most of the software I create is freeware for those with physical
>> disabilities. Often, they cannot afford the latest hardware or OS.
>
>My app (built with 5.5.5) runs fine under Win98.

5.5.5 will not run on my W98SE system - crashing every few minutes. Apps
compiled with 5.5.5 and 2005 running under XP appear to run OK under W98SE
but I'm very leery since neither IDE will run under it. I do not want to
crash the system of someone who is critically dependent on their PC for
control of their environment.

0
nobody
6/16/2005 11:58:12 AM
W98 is not a real 32 bit OS. It is DOS with a GUI and so is ME.

Jim Klein

nobody@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote:

>Markus <notgiven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> In which case they should remove it from the RB OS support list. As long as
>>> they claim to support it, they should actually support it. As it is now, I
>>> get "Cannot load framework library for Win32" when I try to Run or Build.
>>> 
>>> Most of the software I create is freeware for those with physical
>>> disabilities. Often, they cannot afford the latest hardware or OS.
>>
>>My app (built with 5.5.5) runs fine under Win98.
>
>5.5.5 will not run on my W98SE system - crashing every few minutes. Apps
>compiled with 5.5.5 and 2005 running under XP appear to run OK under W98SE
>but I'm very leery since neither IDE will run under it. I do not want to
>crash the system of someone who is critically dependent on their PC for
>control of their environment.

0
Jim
6/16/2005 12:07:55 PM
>> My app (built with 5.5.5) runs fine under Win98.
> 
> 5.5.5 will not run on my W98SE system - crashing every few minutes. Apps
> compiled with 5.5.5 and 2005 running under XP appear to run OK under W98SE
> but I'm very leery since neither IDE will run under it. I do not want to
> crash the system of someone who is critically dependent on their PC for
> control of their environment.

I'm running a standard version of 5.5.5 under Win98 in VirtualPC (as XP is
way to slow under emulation on my system). Both RB and the compiled apps
work fine for me.

Markus

0
Markus
6/16/2005 12:43:17 PM
In article <42b15918$0$11980$79720d31@newsreader.inode.at>,
 Gerald Aichholzer <gary@sbox.tugraz.at> wrote:

> > No. They use your address in the To: field and use whatever the subject is
> > in the Subject: field. There's no way to filter so you open yourself up to
> > all kinds of spam if you join their lists. As I said elsewhere - amateurish.
> 
> I agree that the current solution is not good. In this case it
> is better to set up a new e-mail address for the mailing list
> only (so that easy filering can be applied).

There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list 
address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender 
headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender header 
myself).

There is no spam on our mailing lists, and I don't see how subscribing 
to one of them will "open yourself up to all kinds of spam."  There's 
considerably more spam on this newsgroup, in fact.

I understand that some people prefer newsgroups, but like it or not, 
those of us here are in a dwindling minority.  Today most people use 
either mailing lists or web-based "message boards".  Newsgroups were hot 
in the 1990s, and will probably never go away entirely, but they just 
don't reach most computer users today.

It's great that we have both the mailing lists and these newsgroups, so 
you can communicate in your preferred way.  But if you get serious about 
using REALbasic, I recommend joining the appropriate mailing list -- 
you'll simply find a larger community of users there to help you out.

(Unless, of course, we get a few tens of thousands of new users who all 
prefer the newsgroup!)

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/16/2005 2:20:26 PM
In article <42b1632b$0$1148$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>,
 Arnaud Nicolet <arnau@tribu.ch> wrote:

> geoff@realsoftware.com wrote:
> > These changes where all made to either be more clear or to provide a
> > more cross platform name. Even Mac OS X refers to the window buttons as
> > Minimize and Maximize buttons.
> 
> Ok, I didn't know Mac OS X changed their references. At least, Mac OS 
> classic still uses the Zoom button terms (I admit that it is the single 
> one).
> However, I still think everything was first thought in a Win32 fashion.

You are incorrect.  The first thought was to name things in a 
platform-generic way.  For example, why should we call it a "CloseBox" 
when it isn't even a box on the Mac anymore (and hasn't been for several 
years now)?  The original names were based on Mac Classic with 
insufficient consideration to forwards-compatibility or 
cross-compatibility, and don't even make sense on the Mac anymore.  It 
was time for them to change to something a little more widely applicable.

Really, you needn't worry about us turning into a Windows company.  The 
computer on my desk is a Mac.  The computer on Geoff's desk is a Mac.  
Most of us, in fact, have Macs on our desks and use them for most of our 
work.  Windows and Linux are important to us too, of course.  But we 
love the Mac and will continue to do a great job keeping up with the 
evolving Mac platform.

Best,
- Joe

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web Directory:     |
|    joe@strout.net           http://www.macwebdir.com             |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
0
Joe
6/16/2005 2:25:06 PM
Dave Houston wrote:

> While he quickly fixed the bugs I reported, that should never have been
> necessary.
> 
> Any company that would release 5.5.5 with the bugs it had in serial comms is
> clueless. It did not enumerate the ports correctly. It would blithely open
> COM1 if you asked it to open a non-existent port. I have serious
> reservations about using anything from a company that made it to version
> 5.5.5 without understanding serial comms. I still expect there will be
> performance issues with multiple ports & multiple streams.

Remember that RB was Mac only until recently and Mac's haven't had 
serial ports for a long time.

I am glad the problem has been fixed. Thanks for your efforts!
0
Lewis
6/16/2005 3:04:07 PM
Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:

>In article <42b15918$0$11980$79720d31@newsreader.inode.at>,
> Gerald Aichholzer <gary@sbox.tugraz.at> wrote:
>
>> > No. They use your address in the To: field and use whatever the subject is
>> > in the Subject: field. There's no way to filter so you open yourself up to
>> > all kinds of spam if you join their lists. As I said elsewhere - amateurish.
>> 
>> I agree that the current solution is not good. In this case it
>> is better to set up a new e-mail address for the mailing list
>> only (so that easy filering can be applied).
>
>There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list 
>address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender 
>headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender header 
>myself).

And how many e-mail programs allow filtering based on those arcane headers?
Other mailing lists use standard headers which nearly all e-mail programs
can deal with for filtering.

>There is no spam on our mailing lists, and I don't see how subscribing 
>to one of them will "open yourself up to all kinds of spam."  There's 
>considerably more spam on this newsgroup, in fact.

I did not say there was any spam on the lists. I have spam pretty much under
control - getting only 5-6 unsolicited messages per day which I delete
without opening. But the inability to filter messages from your lists means
I see hundreds of messages daily for which I cannot discern the origin
without opening them, thus making myself vulnerable to malicious e-mails of
other unknown origin. I choose not to do that. I occasionally scan the
archives but that's awkward and cumbersome with a deplorably low signal to
noise ratio.

Most companies have gone to PHP based, moderated forums. IMO, those work
much better for all concerned.

People coming from VB are likely to look first to Usenet newsgroups because
support for VB from Microsoft MVPs and from other VB users has been
excellent there. My experience so far with RB is that such support is pretty
much non-existent.
 
0
nobody
6/16/2005 3:35:59 PM
We certainly want to make the product more accessible for Visual Basic
users. But doesn't mean it's less valuable or less Mac-like for Mac
users. In fact, REALbasic 2005 has the most Mac OS X native interface
we have ever had.

Geoff Perlman
President and CEO
REAL Software, Inc.

0
geoff
6/16/2005 4:03:30 PM
Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:

>Dave Houston wrote:
>
>> While he quickly fixed the bugs I reported, that should never have been
>> necessary.
[...]
>
>Remember that RB was Mac only until recently and Mac's haven't had 
>serial ports for a long time.

Exactly! ;)

But, I'm surprised they don't handle USB HID devices. They're easy enough to
handle with VB.
0
nobody
6/16/2005 4:52:44 PM
On 6/16/05 6:28 AM, in article 42b252bd.71229184@nntp.fuse.net, "Dave
Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote:

> Robert <sigzero@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Most of the software I create is freeware for those with physical
> disabilities. Often, they cannot afford the latest hardware or OS.

It wasn't a dig at you man. I was just surprised they even supported it.

Robert

0
Robert
6/16/2005 11:01:58 PM
Joe Strout wrote:
> In article <42b1632b$0$1148$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch>,
>  Arnaud Nicolet <arnau@tribu.ch> wrote:
> 
> 
>>geoff@realsoftware.com wrote:
>>
>>>These changes where all made to either be more clear or to provide a
>>>more cross platform name. Even Mac OS X refers to the window buttons as
>>>Minimize and Maximize buttons.
>>
>>Ok, I didn't know Mac OS X changed their references. At least, Mac OS 
>>classic still uses the Zoom button terms (I admit that it is the single 
>>one).
>>However, I still think everything was first thought in a Win32 fashion.
> 
> 
> You are incorrect.  The first thought was to name things in a 
> platform-generic way.  For example, why should we call it a "CloseBox" 
> when it isn't even a box on the Mac anymore (and hasn't been for several 
> years now)?  The original names were based on Mac Classic with 
> insufficient consideration to forwards-compatibility or 
> cross-compatibility, and don't even make sense on the Mac anymore.  It 
> was time for them to change to something a little more widely applicable.

Fine. I thought CloseBox was a Win32 specific term (I saw that some 
years ago). Indeed, you're right to make terms generics.

> Really, you needn't worry about us turning into a Windows company.  The 
> computer on my desk is a Mac.  The computer on Geoff's desk is a Mac.  
> Most of us, in fact, have Macs on our desks and use them for most of our 
> work.  Windows and Linux are important to us too, of course.  But we 
> love the Mac and will continue to do a great job keeping up with the 
> evolving Mac platform.

Ok, I stop worrying. Thank you.
0
Arnaud
6/17/2005 12:04:23 PM
Dave Houston wrote:
> Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:
> 
>>In article <42b15918$0$11980$79720d31@newsreader.inode.at>,
>>Gerald Aichholzer <gary@sbox.tugraz.at> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>No. They use your address in the To: field and use whatever the subject is
>>>>in the Subject: field. There's no way to filter so you open yourself up to
>>>>all kinds of spam if you join their lists. As I said elsewhere - amateurish.
>>>
>>>I agree that the current solution is not good. In this case it
>>>is better to set up a new e-mail address for the mailing list
>>>only (so that easy filering can be applied).
>>
>>There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list 
>>address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender 
>>headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender header 
>>myself).
> 
> And how many e-mail programs allow filtering based on those arcane headers?
> Other mailing lists use standard headers which nearly all e-mail programs
> can deal with for filtering.

At least, the Mac mail application (built in) can. That's a big part.

>>There is no spam on our mailing lists, and I don't see how subscribing 
>>to one of them will "open yourself up to all kinds of spam."  There's 
>>considerably more spam on this newsgroup, in fact.
> 
> I did not say there was any spam on the lists. I have spam pretty much under
> control - getting only 5-6 unsolicited messages per day which I delete
> without opening. But the inability to filter messages from your lists means
> I see hundreds of messages daily for which I cannot discern the origin
> without opening them, thus making myself vulnerable to malicious e-mails of
> other unknown origin. I choose not to do that. I occasionally scan the
> archives but that's awkward and cumbersome with a deplorably low signal to
> noise ratio.
> 
> Most companies have gone to PHP based, moderated forums. IMO, those work
> much better for all concerned.

In my case, I hate those PHP based systems. I think I'm not the only one.
0
Arnaud
6/17/2005 12:42:07 PM
Lewis Gardner <lgardner@simplifiedtechnologies.com> wrote:

>Remember that RB was Mac only until recently and Mac's haven't had 
>serial ports for a long time.

What Macs have serial ports? I'm not at all familiar with the various models
and aside from trying to help folks with serial problems have no real
interest in Macs.

In the past they had a DIN serial port that was neither fish nor fowl - it
met neither RS-232 nor RS-422 specs but was closer to RS-422 and could be
used with RS-232 peripherals if you knew how to wire an adapter.

The current models all appear to have internal 56K modems (Why?) but do not
have RS-232 ports.

USB-to-RS232 adapters have varying capabilities depending on make and model
but almost none provide a full emulation of the UARTs which PCs use for
RS-232. Low level code that may work with a modem or UART may not work with
USB-to-RS232 adapters. Hardware handshaking which is hardwired and realtime
with modems and UARTs becomes indirect and so mushy as to be useless with
USB adapters.

It will be interesting to see whether they use real UARTs and true RS-232
with their Intel based machines.
0
nobody
6/17/2005 12:43:31 PM
Arnaud Nicolet <arnau@tribu.ch> wrote:

>At least, the Mac mail application (built in) can. That's a big part.

Is that new math? I think 2.3% (Mac's market share) is a very small part. ;)

If RS is trying to tell us (potential) VB converts that we also have to
convert to a Mac, I think they'll be out of business soon.  
0
nobody
6/17/2005 12:52:24 PM
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:42b19574.2827873@nntp.fuse.net...
> Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:
>
> >There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list
> >address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender
> >headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender header
> >myself).
>
> And how many e-mail programs allow filtering based on those arcane
headers?
> Other mailing lists use standard headers which nearly all e-mail programs
> can deal with for filtering.
>
Well almost every Mac, Windows and Unix mail client I have used have allowed
filtering on the headers.


0
Bob
6/18/2005 2:33:03 AM
"Bob Coleman/PDX OR" <no@spamplease.com> wrote:

>
>"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
>news:42b19574.2827873@nntp.fuse.net...
>> Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:
>>
>> >There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list
>> >address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender
>> >headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender header
>> >myself).
>>
>> And how many e-mail programs allow filtering based on those arcane
>headers?
>> Other mailing lists use standard headers which nearly all e-mail programs
>> can deal with for filtering.
>>
>Well almost every Mac, Windows and Unix mail client I have used have allowed
>filtering on the headers.
>

On the non-standard headers RS has created? Somehow I doubt that. 
0
nobody
6/18/2005 10:12:07 AM
Dave Houston wrote:
> "Bob Coleman/PDX OR" <no@spamplease.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
>>news:42b19574.2827873@nntp.fuse.net...
>>
>>>Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list
>>>>address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender
>>>>headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender header
>>>>myself).
>>>
>>>And how many e-mail programs allow filtering based on those arcane
>>
>>headers?
>>
>>>Other mailing lists use standard headers which nearly all e-mail programs
>>>can deal with for filtering.
>>>
>>
>>Well almost every Mac, Windows and Unix mail client I have used have allowed
>>filtering on the headers.
>>
> 
> 
> On the non-standard headers RS has created? Somehow I doubt that. 

You are allowed to be wrong.
0
Arnaud
6/18/2005 10:53:46 AM
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:42b3f2d6.157371718@nntp.fuse.net...
> "Bob Coleman/PDX OR" <no@spamplease.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
> >news:42b19574.2827873@nntp.fuse.net...
> >> Joe Strout <joe@strout.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >There are some apparent some misunderstandings here.  The mailing list
> >> >address appears in the Delivered-To, X-BeenThere, Reply-To, and Sender
> >> >headers, so filtering into a mailbox is trivial (I use the Sender
header
> >> >myself).
> >>
> >> And how many e-mail programs allow filtering based on those arcane
> >headers?
> >> Other mailing lists use standard headers which nearly all e-mail
programs
> >> can deal with for filtering.
> >>
> >Well almost every Mac, Windows and Unix mail client I have used have
allowed
> >filtering on the headers.
> >
>
> On the non-standard headers RS has created? Somehow I doubt that.

X- headers _are_ a standard.  They are intended to allow custom filters
without breaking obsolete mail clients.  And I have been able to use them
without difficulty.


0
Bob
6/19/2005 4:56:14 AM
"Bob Coleman/PDX OR" <no@spamplease.com> wrote:

>X- headers _are_ a standard.  They are intended to allow custom filters
>without breaking obsolete mail clients.  And I have been able to use them
>without difficulty.

x- headers may be "standard" with _your_ email client. They are not standard
on all email clients.

0
nobody
6/19/2005 10:12:48 AM
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:12:48 +0200, Dave Houston wrote
(in article <42b644a2.243861021@nntp.fuse.net>):

>> X- headers _are_ a standard.  They are intended to allow custom filters
>> without breaking obsolete mail clients.  And I have been able to use them
>> without difficulty.
> 
> x- headers may be "standard" with _your_ email client. They are not standard
> on all email clients.

From RFC822 <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc822.html>

     X-Special-action:  This is a sample of user-defined field-
                 names.  There could also be a field-name
                 "Special-action", but its name might later be
                 preempted

I don't know how current this RFC is.


0
Kalle
6/19/2005 1:47:46 PM
Kalle Anke <skromta@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:12:48 +0200, Dave Houston wrote
>(in article <42b644a2.243861021@nntp.fuse.net>):
>
>>> X- headers _are_ a standard.  They are intended to allow custom filters
>>> without breaking obsolete mail clients.  And I have been able to use them
>>> without difficulty.
>> 
>> x- headers may be "standard" with _your_ email client. They are not standard
>> on all email clients.
>
>From RFC822 <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc822.html>
>
>     X-Special-action:  This is a sample of user-defined field-
>                 names.  There could also be a field-name
>                 "Special-action", but its name might later be
>                 preempted
>
>I don't know how current this RFC is.

And just what part of "user-defined" is it that none of you seem to
understand? By definition, a "user-defined field" is non-standard. The RFC
you cited says that standard fields will _NEVER_ contain "X-".

From RFC 822...
<quote>
    4.7.5.  USER-DEFINED-FIELD

             Individual users of network mail are free to  define  and
        use  additional  header  fields.   Such fields must have names
        which are not already used in the current specification or  in
        any definitions of extension-fields, and the overall syntax of
        these user-defined-fields must conform to this specification's
        rules   for   delimiting  and  folding  fields.   Due  to  the
        extension-field  publishing  process,  the  name  of  a  user-
        defined-field may be pre-empted

        Note:  The prefatory string "X-" will never  be  used  in  the
               names  of Extension-fields.  This provides user-defined
               fields with a protected set of names.
</quote>

Nearly every mailing list I've ever joined merely inserted [SOURCE], where
source was an ID for the list, in the Subject line. For example Yahoo Groups
use:

      Subject:	[GROUPNAME] Re: whatever

It's simple. It tells you immediately where it's from. It can be filtered by
any email client that provides even the most rudimentary of filters.
0
nobody
6/19/2005 2:21:47 PM
I can't recreate what I was doing as I wasn't actually do anything - I left
RB 2005 open, but not running in the build mode and when I came back and
screen faded from black to on the screen was covered with Kernal Panic
text. The log is below:

*********

Sat Jun 18 08:49:10 2005


panic(cpu 0): simple lock deadlock detection - l=036A8998, cpu=0,
ret=00000000
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
      Backtrace:
         0x000857F4 0x00085C24 0x000287B4 0x00032EA8 0x0003FFD0 0x00098D10
0x000944D8 0x00092D64 
Proceeding back via exception chain:
   Exception state (sv=0x1C148C80)
      PC=0x00094A20; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xE06CB000; DSISR=0x42000000;
LR=0x00094A20; R1=0x16D33DD0; XCP=0x00000024 (0x900 - Decrementer)
      Backtrace:
         0x00040FE4 0x0003547C 0x000353D0 
   Exception state (sv=0x02017000)
      PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000;
LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 6.8:
Wed Sep 10 15:20:55 PDT 2003; root:xnu/xnu-344.49.obj~2/RELEASE_PPC



*********

Apparently this type of error has to do with two applications accessing
the same information which causes both to fail?

X 10.2.8 / 9.2.2
XP via Virtual PC
RB 2005 in X


0
kcooddeerr
6/20/2005 4:43:44 PM
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:07:55 GMT, Jim Klein wrote:

> W98 is not a real 32 bit OS. It is DOS with a GUI and so is ME.
> 
> Jim Klein
> 

You really don't understand Windows then.

This is an old argument and does not follow the discussion at hand. The
point made was that if RB has WIN98SE on the OS list then it should
properly support it. Whether or not Windows is a "real 32 bit OS" doesn't
matter in the scope of this disacussion. If they had CP/M on the
compatability list then it should be supported.

-- 
HK
0
H
6/21/2005 5:01:10 PM
>>W98 is not a real 32 bit OS. It is DOS with a GUI and so is ME.
>
> You really don't understand Windows then.

Well, I think he was being more sarcastic than technical, but it is
true that 98 and ME are hybrid 16/32 bit systems, best left in the
dustbin of history.

> The point made was that if RB has WIN98SE on the OS list
> then it should properly support it. Whether or not Windows
> is a "real 32 bit OS" doesn't matter in the scope of this
> discussion. If they had CP/M on the compatability list then
> it should be supported.

I agree.  There tends to be this unfortunate marketing tendency of some
software companies to state that their product works with as many
remotely possible system requirements as possible, so that can sell
more.  Of course they are doing injustice to the customer, who gave
them his hard earned money so that he could use it on his system they
claim is supported.  For them to later say, "Well, you really should be
using a later OS with this" is disingenuous.  I would tell that
company, "You claim to support that system, then support it.  No one is
forcing you to say that it runs on Windows 98 [or whatever]".

REALbasic has gotten a lot better about that, as I think we see with RB
2005 and its dropping of support for Classic and others.

0
jonhoyle
6/21/2005 5:28:23 PM
On 2005-06-15 16:01:24 -0700, Arnaud Nicolet <arnau@tribu.ch> said:

> searchbuffet@yahoo.com wrote:
>> tanks christian i definitely voted for those. especially the second
>> one. i would urge any osx user to vote for these and again especially::
>> http://support.realsoftware.com/feedback/viewreport.php?reportid=dsvwfpuu
>> 
>> but dont take my word for it. try 2005 yourself and see if you like it.
>> again RS JUST MAKE THE OPTION TO MAKE IT A NORMAL OSX 'WINDOW'-BASED
>> APP.
> 
> I certainly want to vote but... I get "Report not found" for both of 
> them. Are they afraid of receiving too many votes for deleting these 
> reports?

Doubtful.  More likely your reader wrapped the links and broke them 
(mine did).  Make sure you are trying to use the entire report id:

wqpfhiie

dsvwfpuu
-- 
DG

0
David
7/1/2005 7:10:35 PM
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I seem to remember when RB 2005 was first announced, RS said that anyone who bought RB 5.5 between the announcement and the release of 2005 would get a free upgrade to 2005. Did I just dream that? No matter either way, but it would be nice to know. -- Ben Wheatley University of Wales, Aberystwyth That's correct. You didn't dream that up. Geoff Perlman President and CEO REAL Software, Inc. Is that based on date of registration on the web? I also assume that the web store doesn't take that into account, so one must call to get the free update? (Not that it...

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I have a short (~50 line) program written in BASIC from years ago, that I'd like to get up and running in REALBasic. It's just some data entry (24 lines) then 3 nested For-Next loops and a couple of simple calculations (27 lines). I just downloaded the REALBasic 10 day demo and tutorial but don't want to spend the time to plow through it all, learning about windows and such. It seems that I could just incorporate the math I need to do in somebody's existing template. Would anyone be willing to help me to get it up and running quickly? Then I can test it on the d...

RB 2005 and scriptability
I am testing RB 2005 R4, trying to run a program I developed under RB 4.02, so far I am happy with the progress made in the past two years, but having an annoying problem. I have added the same aete resource as I had in the previous version, the same code in the HandleApple Event routine (adjusted for the change of the name in parameters) but I cannot get it to work. The dictionary in my app is seen by AppleScript, I cans see the aete resource in the package, but when I send an event through applescript it arrives in the routine with EventClass containing "ascr" and Event...

Question about Realbasic 2005
Is there a way to prevent Realbasic from opening a new project at startup or start with the last project opened. I get tired of closing the empty project before opening the last project I was working on. In article <0001HW.BF26BF6E000E7E70F0407550@news-server>, Ken <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: > Is there a way to prevent Realbasic from opening a new project at startup or > start with the last project opened. Sort of: launch it by double-clicking (or dragging onto the app icon) the document you want it to launch with. > I get tired of closing the empty ...

RB 2005/SQLLite
I'm sure this is another one of those 'cant tell you anything yet' things but I had to ask. Does the recent acquisition of SQLLabs by RS mean that the SQLLite plugin will be included in RB 2005 by default, possibly in place of the built in [slow] RB database? again., i had to ask ;) <searchbuffet@yahoo.com> wrote: > I'm sure this is another one of those 'cant tell you anything yet' > things but I had to ask. Does the recent acquisition of SQLLabs by RS > mean that the SQLLite plugin will be included in RB 2005 by default, > possibly in pl...

Lang attribute basics
I thought that I couldn't possibly get into trouble with the lang attribute, but this turned out not to be the case. I am writing in English, and using the HTML 4.01 DTD, so adding <html lang="en"> seemed pretty reasonable. Then I though I had better work out how to make one paragraph another language, just in case. I was watching StarTrek at the time, so I turned to http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/englangn.html where the ISO639.2 says the code for Klingon is tlh So I thought a new paragraph <p lang="tlh"> would be the right thing. ...

Visual Basic and REALbasic
I am told that projects created with VB can be ported to RB with small effort. I am inheriting a VB project, but I don't know if it is a VB 2003 or a VB 2005 project. I know that there have been some changes in the 2005 version (VB.net changed only slightly between the 2002 and 2003 releases). Will Rb be able to convert a 2005 project, or is it only good with the original VB.net? I don't know, but I thought RB converted old VB 6 projects, but nothing from .NET. Is this true? "Math1723" <anonym1723@aol.com> wrote in message news:1141337997.713810....

I like RB 2005/2006
I like what they are doing. Compared to all previous programming environments and languages for the Mac, RB is great. And I can port my code to Windows and Linux and sell to the masses not cool enough for a Mac. James E. Klein jameseklein@earthlink.net Engineering Calculations http://www.ecalculations.com ecalculations@ecalculations.com Engineering Calculations is the home of the KDP-2 Optical Design Program for Windows and (soon) MAC OSX Free KDP-2 (Intro Version) downloadable! 1-818-507-5706 (Voice and Fax) Heresy! Heresy! Stupid Google Groups. I gotta switch to ...

REALbasic 2005 Initial Thoughts
I have to say, after reading the archives and this newsgroup, I was expecting the 2005 version of RB to be a complete disaster. I was very close to not even trying 2005. After messing around for about two hours with one of my projects (Baseball Statbook: http://www.pachysoft.com/statbook/ ) I came away very impressed with the new IDE (I use Mac OS X). Very impressed. This is, of course, my opinion but the interface is much more intuitive and I know this will speed up productivity quite a bit. I know it will get better but right now it's great. I haven't experienced any speed ...

Help With RB 2005 Database
I need help - basic to advanced help - with RB 2005 Pro database. Would really love to see a small database app with the essentials of opening, displaying and saving database files, tables and records. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks, David Turnedge The best source of help I found was in the examples.zip from the RealSoftware download page. -Bob <turnedge@screentime.com.au> wrote in message news:1120991438.567242.214990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > I need help - basic to advanced help - with RB 2005 Pro database. > > Would really...

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