f



no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver?

how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?
0
the_gavino_himself
2/13/2014 2:36:49 AM
comp.lang.forth 7148 articles. 0 followers. markrobertwills (871) is leader. Post Follow

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On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:36:49 PM UTC-6, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

Right now, what I'm interested in is niche RPGMaker-type games on Android.
I've done some of this work already in Java, including creating a map editor
(on Android) and a playable demo, using First Seed Material
(http://www.tekepon.net/fsm/index.php) assets  I gave up on my last
alternatives to Java when I found Terminal IDE, which allowed me to move code
all the way from Java source to installable .apks on the device itself.

But now there is a Forth system on Android!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gnu.gforth&hl=en

I don't know if it'll have on-device turnkey facilities soon or ever, or how
deployment will otherwise work.  I've some familiarity with Java API, the
Android way of XML-specified interfaces and the like (fortunately, games mostly
ignore that part of Android), but JNI and friends is still a mystery to me.

But you can get the satisfaction of being able to touch an icon and have your
Forth app start up.... by the roundabout method of having an auxiliary app that
1) slides Forth source into starta.fs on the SD card and then 2) launches
gforth.  It's satisfying anyway.

So in the manner of someone laying down track with the expectation that
there will be a tunnel through the mountain by the time the mountain is
reached, I'm working on some Android apps already.


What I'm getting as is, I'm afraid that it will take me a while to get around
to impressing you with 1% exact copies of existing software.

Sorry!  Please wait more patiently!


-- Julian
0
Julian
2/13/2014 3:17:51 AM
In article <b3039dde-3360-4429-9031-23e6138c4bc8@googlegroups.com>,
Julian Fondren  <julian.fondren@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:36:49 PM UTC-6, the_gavino_himself wrote:
>> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?
>
>Right now, what I'm interested in is niche RPGMaker-type games on Android.
>I've done some of this work already in Java, including creating a map editor
>(on Android) and a playable demo, using First Seed Material
>(http://www.tekepon.net/fsm/index.php) assets  I gave up on my last
>alternatives to Java when I found Terminal IDE, which allowed me to move code
>all the way from Java source to installable .apks on the device itself.
>
>But now there is a Forth system on Android!
>
>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gnu.gforth&hl=en

One of the first things I installed on my Asus Memopad.
Easy to find, easy to install, easy to use.
But I don't think I'll do even half serious development
with the touchpad keyboard.

>
>I don't know if it'll have on-device turnkey facilities soon or ever, or how
>deployment will otherwise work.  I've some familiarity with Java API, the
>Android way of XML-specified interfaces and the like (fortunately, games mostly
>ignore that part of Android), but JNI and friends is still a mystery to me.
>
>But you can get the satisfaction of being able to touch an icon and have your
>Forth app start up.... by the roundabout method of having an auxiliary app that
>1) slides Forth source into starta.fs on the SD card and then 2) launches
>gforth.  It's satisfying anyway.
>
>So in the manner of someone laying down track with the expectation that
>there will be a tunnel through the mountain by the time the mountain is
>reached, I'm working on some Android apps already.
>
>
>What I'm getting as is, I'm afraid that it will take me a while to get around
>to impressing you with 1% exact copies of existing software.
>
>Sorry!  Please wait more patiently!
>
>
>-- Julian
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

0
albert
2/13/2014 3:45:27 AM
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:45:27 PM UTC-6, Albert van der Horst wrot=
e:
>
> One of the first things I installed on my Asus Memopad.
>=20
> Easy to find, easy to install, easy to use.
>=20
> But I don't think I'll do even half serious development
>=20
> with the touchpad keyboard.
>=20

The Asus Memopad has bluetooth, so you can use a keyboard with it.  The thr=
ee types are:

1. A giant bulky case (for protection) with an attached bluetooth keyboard.=
  You can prop up the tablet, generally only in landscape mode, which is wo=
rse for development.  If the case is 'universal', it's probably a minor fea=
t to extract the tablet from it; this detracts considerably from the charm =
of having a tablet.

2. A keyboard with a bit of extra plastic that you can lean the tablet agai=
nst.  These tend to allow freedom of orientation, tend to be stiffer and be=
tter for laps.  Some of them double as covers.

3. A completely separate keyboard.  Maybe the keyboard's own carrying-case =
doubles as a stand.

For devices with host USB support and the appropriate adapters, you can als=
o use wired keyboards.  I have a nice stand and bluetooth keyboard at home,=
 and also a wired rubber keyboard that I carry with me.

You can also use a mouse.  Now that I have a Note I'd rather use the S-pen,=
 but a mouse was certainly useful with the map editor.

This is nothing new.  PalmOS had Quartus Forth and portable folding keyboar=
ds.

Or if you do normal desktop Android development, the first or second step i=
s to configure an emulator.  You can install gforth into that, too.

-- Julian
0
Julian
2/13/2014 4:28:43 AM
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:28:43 -0800 (PST), Julian Fondren
<julian.fondren@gmail.com> wrote:

>1. A giant bulky case (for protection) with an attached bluetooth keyboard.=
>  You can prop up the tablet, generally only in landscape mode, which is wo=
>rse for development.  If the case is 'universal', it's probably a minor fea=
>t to extract the tablet from it; this detracts considerably from the charm =
>of having a tablet.

I finally solved the tablet stand problem for GBP 2.65. Go to a
department store and buy a cheap plastic plate display stand. They
fold well and slip inside the sleeve.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads
0
stephenXXX
2/13/2014 12:51:47 PM
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:36:49 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

pc=desktop computer

no one wants those silly pads and phones are too small for fun computer use

down with apple oracle ibm microsoft

scams
0
the_gavino_himself
2/20/2014 10:36:49 AM
On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:36:49 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

however

an online rpg done in forth would be awesome

something like a free world of warcraft
or even a non free competitor 

with nice graphics

all in 1% the code
0
gavino_himself
2/28/2014 6:16:52 AM
> Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is an=
 implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which business o=
bjects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled for system re=
covery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to provide ACID persisten=
ce for your "plain old Java objects".

If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could a=
llot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use ov=
erlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The overlays =
presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded right after the=
 buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer.  Then have a few =
words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file folders if you tel=
l them to be written.  Seems like I could implement something like this in =
10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory.  The late great Jeff Fox mig=
ht have considered that excessive.

:^/
0
Jason
3/1/2014 7:08:55 PM
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:08:55 AM UTC-8, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is =
an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which business=
 objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled for system =
recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to provide ACID persist=
ence for your "plain old Java objects".
>=20
>=20
>=20
> If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could=
 allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use =
overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The overlay=
s presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded right after t=
he buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer.  Then have a fe=
w words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file folders if you t=
ell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement something like this i=
n 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory.  The late great Jeff Fox m=
ight have considered that excessive.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> :^/

interesting

I am sad Mr Fox is gone :(

his site was very interesting.....I try to apply his methodology to my own =
coding...

It would have been fun to ask him more questions.....but he got very impati=
ent with me on some emails.

His writing about how small memory language like forth mapping brilliantly =
to todays larger machines was very inspiring.

And the distributed forth stuff was like woa, as easy as a for loop?
wow
I forget if it was forth-linda or something else...

0
gavino_himself
3/2/2014 6:39:28 AM
gavino_himself wrote:

> On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:08:55 AM UTC-8, Jason Damisch wrote:
>> > Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is
>> > an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which
>> > business objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled
>> > for system recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to
>> > provide ACID persistence for your "plain old Java objects".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could
>> allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use
>> overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The
>> overlays presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded
>> right after the buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer. 
>> Then have a few words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file
>> folders if you tell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement
>> something like this in 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory. 
>> The late great Jeff Fox might have considered that excessive.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> :^/
> 
> interesting
> 
> I am sad Mr Fox is gone :(
> 
> his site was very interesting.....I try to apply his methodology to my own
> coding...
> 
> It would have been fun to ask him more questions.....but he got very
> impatient with me on some emails.
> 
> His writing about how small memory language like forth mapping brilliantly
> to todays larger machines was very inspiring.
> 
> And the distributed forth stuff was like woa, as easy as a for loop?
> wow
> I forget if it was forth-linda or something else...

So do it.

post your code - I'm sure many will help

People get impatient because of lack of action - you are clearly in this 
situation.  

Jason has told you how to do it in 10-20k, so go do it.  If you are really 
talented do it Jeff Fox style in less code.  We would all like to see that.

You have discussed in other postings about saving in RAM 1 hour of 
transactions and then logging to disk.  In my applications the loss of 1 
hours transactions would be death to the business.  How many applications do 
you really think could sustain 1 hours loss of business?   I will always 
take 1 finalised transaction above every promised or incomplete transaction, 
be that over ms, hours, days or weeks.

btw you need attention to detail and a good memory to be a programmer.  
Forgetting will cost you.







0
marko
3/12/2014 10:20:35 AM
On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:20:35 AM UTC-7, marko wrote:
> gavino_himself wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:08:55 AM UTC-8, Jason Damisch wrote:
> 
> >> > Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is
> 
> >> > an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which
> 
> >> > business objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled
> 
> >> > for system recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to
> 
> >> > provide ACID persistence for your "plain old Java objects".
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could
> 
> >> allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use
> 
> >> overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The
> 
> >> overlays presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded
> 
> >> right after the buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer. 
> 
> >> Then have a few words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file
> 
> >> folders if you tell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement
> 
> >> something like this in 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory. 
> 
> >> The late great Jeff Fox might have considered that excessive.
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> :^/
> 
> > 
> 
> > interesting
> 
> > 
> 
> > I am sad Mr Fox is gone :(
> 
> > 
> 
> > his site was very interesting.....I try to apply his methodology to my own
> 
> > coding...
> 
> > 
> 
> > It would have been fun to ask him more questions.....but he got very
> 
> > impatient with me on some emails.
> 
> > 
> 
> > His writing about how small memory language like forth mapping brilliantly
> 
> > to todays larger machines was very inspiring.
> 
> > 
> 
> > And the distributed forth stuff was like woa, as easy as a for loop?
> 
> > wow
> 
> > I forget if it was forth-linda or something else...
> 
> 
> 
> So do it.
> 
> 
> 
> post your code - I'm sure many will help
> 
> 
> 
> People get impatient because of lack of action - you are clearly in this 
> 
> situation.  
> 
> 
> 
> Jason has told you how to do it in 10-20k, so go do it.  If you are really 
> 
> talented do it Jeff Fox style in less code.  We would all like to see that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have discussed in other postings about saving in RAM 1 hour of 
> 
> transactions and then logging to disk.  In my applications the loss of 1 
> 
> hours transactions would be death to the business.  How many applications do 
> 
> you really think could sustain 1 hours loss of business?   I will always 
> 
> take 1 finalised transaction above every promised or incomplete transaction, 
> 
> be that over ms, hours, days or weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> btw you need attention to detail and a good memory to be a programmer.  
> 
> Forgetting will cost you.

and what live website have you produced? 
link please
yeahhh
yeahhhhhh
yehahhhhhhhhh
0
gavino_himself
3/13/2014 6:58:48 AM
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Jeff, I would be interested in hearing your experiences using Forth with AI. Steve Graham === Bill Spight <Xbspight@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<4095C3EA.1549F111@pacbell.net>... >>> > Symbolic Computations on a Personal Computer, -- S. N. Baranoff >>> > >>> > List Processing and Object-Oriented Programming Using Forth, -- >>> > Dennis L Feucht >> It might be interesting to hear from Messers Baranoff and Feucht bout >> the difficulties and trade-offs of using Forth for symbolic >> computati...

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Hi I'm currently attempting to write an ANS-compliant ITC Forth system for the ARM as a personal learning project. I've implemented my system primitives as code words and am now starting to look at the implementation of the high-level words. I've noticed that a number of systems use non-ANS definitions or user variables such as LATEST in their implementation of high-level words. I'm currently trying to decide how this fits in with a strictly ANS-compliant system. Here are my thoughts so far regarding two possible approaches... 1) Implement non-ANS words and use them in hi...

JavaScript to Forth translator (shift-forth)
Hi All, I am working on experimental tool to translate JavaScript (subset) into Forth. https://github.com/drom/shift-forth It takes JavaScript program in Single Static Assignment (SSA) form, implements very simple stack scheduling algorithm, using PICK for deep stack access. And runs peephole optimizer on top. I am working to add basic control structures to to it: Call, if, while Any suggestions are welcome. --Alexey ...

Forth Application and Technique OR Forth Handbook
hello I buy 1 week ago on amazon U.S. "Forth applications and technical" I would like to know if this book is worth knowing - I do not familiarized with programming language ? and if it is sufficient to have familiarized high in this language ? is that the book "Forth programming" handbook is necessary ? i have not a good level of english and i use a translator thanks On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:37:15 AM UTC-7, michael wrote: > hello > > > > I buy 1 week ago on amazon U.S. "Forth applications and technical" > ...

Differences between ANS Forth and Forth-79
Hello all, I have recently accquired the german edition of Leo Brodies's "Starting Forth". Since it uses the Forth-79 standard, I would like to know if there is a document that lists the differences between Forth-79 and ANS-Forth. Appendix D.6 of the dpANS draft details the differences between Forth-83 and ANS Forth, but I would like to know, if there are other things to be aware of. I know that there are several ANS-Forth versions of "Starting Forth" available on the web, but I would prefer to read the dead trees version. Many thanks in advance, Alex Alexander ...

Web resources about - no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? - comp.lang.forth

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