Hello Group:

I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
requires java 1.4.2_13.

I was instructed to do the following:
Uninstall all versions of java.
Install java 1.4.2_13
configure 1.4.2_13
Install any later versions of java.

But here's what happens:

If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
longer access the charts.

Here are the names of the programs I'm installing, in that order, with
reboot inbetween. (The files were downloaded from the Sun site):

j2re-1_4_2_13-windows-i586-p.exe
jre-6u3-windows-i586-p.exe

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jack

JClark wrote:
> I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
> to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
> requires java 1.4.2_13.
> 
> I was instructed to do the following:
> Uninstall all versions of java.
> Install java 1.4.2_13
> configure 1.4.2_13
> Install any later versions of java.
> 
> But here's what happens:
> 
> If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
> the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
> longer access the charts.
> 
> Here are the names of the programs I'm installing, in that order, with
> reboot inbetween. (The files were downloaded from the Sun site):
> 
> j2re-1_4_2_13-windows-i586-p.exe
> jre-6u3-windows-i586-p.exe
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

You don't say that you're using Windows (or which version), but the .exe 
suffix on your downloads implies that you are.

With Windows XP, at least, when you install multiple versions of Java they all 
co-exist quite nicely.  You can tell by reviewing the Control Panel "Add / 
Remove Programs" utility that they're all there.

Programs that require Java 1.4 (and I assure you the program itself does not 
require update 13 specifically) generally run quite well under later JVMs, 
unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?

What evidence do you have that Java 6 actually *overwrote* Java 1.4?

Much more likely is that you simply aren't getting the older one by default. 
When something isn't in the Windows PATH, you have to use explicit paths to 
executables.

-- 
Lew

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:48:00 -0500, Lew <lew@lewscanon.com> wrote:

>JClark wrote:
>> I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
>> to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
>> requires java 1.4.2_13.
>> 
>> I was instructed to do the following:
>> Uninstall all versions of java.
>> Install java 1.4.2_13
>> configure 1.4.2_13
>> Install any later versions of java.
>> 
>> But here's what happens:
>> 
>> If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
>> the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
>> longer access the charts.
>> 
>> Here are the names of the programs I'm installing, in that order, with
>> reboot inbetween. (The files were downloaded from the Sun site):
>> 
>> j2re-1_4_2_13-windows-i586-p.exe
>> jre-6u3-windows-i586-p.exe
>> 
>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>
>You don't say that you're using Windows (or which version), but the .exe 
>suffix on your downloads implies that you are.
>
>With Windows XP, at least, when you install multiple versions of Java they all 
>co-exist quite nicely.  You can tell by reviewing the Control Panel "Add / 
>Remove Programs" utility that they're all there.
>
>Programs that require Java 1.4 (and I assure you the program itself does not 
>require update 13 specifically) generally run quite well under later JVMs, 
>unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?
>
>What evidence do you have that Java 6 actually *overwrote* Java 1.4?
>
>Much more likely is that you simply aren't getting the older one by default. 
>When something isn't in the Windows PATH, you have to use explicit paths to 
>executables.
Lew, 
Thanks for input. I am indeed using Windows XP/sp2. 
>generally run quite well under later JVMs, 
>>unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?
I don't know why, but it is apparently the case. In fact, the hospital
sent out a detailed 6 page memo telling everybody how to install  java
1.4 after uninstalling all other java versions, then to install the
latest java, achieving, as you point out multiple versions of java
which should co-exist. But it doesn't on my system.

>When something isn't in the Windows PATH
Interesting thought. I note in my "system variables" there are two
entries which contain "java"

QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip

These files no longer exist in my program files directory.

Perhaps I should delete these since they do not refer to the java
runtime environment version I need for the special program.

I do appreciate your thoughts.

Jack

On Nov 19, 6:11 pm, JClark <jcl...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:48:00 -0500, Lew <l...@lewscanon.com> wrote:
> >JClark wrote:
> >> I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
> >> to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
> >> requires java 1.4.2_13.
>
> >> I was instructed to do the following:
> >> Uninstall all versions of java.
> >> Install java 1.4.2_13
> >> configure 1.4.2_13
> >> Install any later versions of java.
>
> >> But here's what happens:
>
> >> If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
> >> the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
> >> longer access the charts.
>
> >> Here are the names of the programs I'm installing, in that order, with
> >> reboot inbetween. (The files were downloaded from the Sun site):
>
> >> j2re-1_4_2_13-windows-i586-p.exe
> >> jre-6u3-windows-i586-p.exe
>
> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>
> >You don't say that you're using Windows (or which version), but the .exe
> >suffix on your downloads implies that you are.
>
> >With Windows XP, at least, when you install multiple versions of Java they all
> >co-exist quite nicely.  You can tell by reviewing the Control Panel "Add /
> >Remove Programs" utility that they're all there.
>
> >Programs that require Java 1.4 (and I assure you the program itself does not
> >require update 13 specifically) generally run quite well under later JVMs,
> >unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?
>
> >What evidence do you have that Java 6 actually *overwrote* Java 1.4?
>
> >Much more likely is that you simply aren't getting the older one by default.
> >When something isn't in the Windows PATH, you have to use explicit paths to
> >executables.
>
> Lew,
> Thanks for input. I am indeed using Windows XP/sp2.>generally run quite well under later JVMs,
> >>unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?
>
> I don't know why, but it is apparently the case. In fact, the hospital
> sent out a detailed 6 page memo telling everybody how to install  java
> 1.4 after uninstalling all other java versions, then to install the
> latest java, achieving, as you point out multiple versions of java
> which should co-exist. But it doesn't on my system.
>
> >When something isn't in the Windows PATH
>
> Interesting thought. I note in my "system variables" there are two
> entries which contain "java"
>
> QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
> CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip
>
> These files no longer exist in my program files directory.
>
> Perhaps I should delete these since they do not refer to the java
> runtime environment version I need for the special program.
>
> I do appreciate your thoughts.
>
> Jack

Running McKesson's Physicians Portal I presume, as that required
runtime is familiar.  This problem has been present for well over a
year and it is astounding that McKesson hasn't fixed it. Yet, without
the source, you are pretty much stuck trying to find work arounds.
Most hospital systems will support their users, even on home/office
machines. Might talk to them. Perhaps if enough docs have problems the
hospital IT can pressure the company to fix this.

JClark wrote:
>
> QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
> CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip

Apple's QuickTime Player installs it's own Java runtime, and sets a bunch
of environment variables, and probably adds some entries to the registry.

> I do appreciate your thoughts.
>
> Jack
>
> 

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:48:27 -0800 (PST), Jeff
<jeffrey.summers@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Nov 19, 6:11 pm, JClark <jcl...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:48:00 -0500, Lew <l...@lewscanon.com> wrote:
>> >JClark wrote:
>> >> I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
>> >> to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
>> >> requires java 1.4.2_13.
>>
>> >> I was instructed to do the following:
>> >> Uninstall all versions of java.
>> >> Install java 1.4.2_13
>> >> configure 1.4.2_13
>> >> Install any later versions of java.
>>
>> >> But here's what happens:
>>
>> >> If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
>> >> the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
>> >> longer access the charts.
>>
>> >> Here are the names of the programs I'm installing, in that order, with
>> >> reboot inbetween. (The files were downloaded from the Sun site):
>>
>> >> j2re-1_4_2_13-windows-i586-p.exe
>> >> jre-6u3-windows-i586-p.exe
>>
>> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>> >You don't say that you're using Windows (or which version), but the .exe
>> >suffix on your downloads implies that you are.
>>
>> >With Windows XP, at least, when you install multiple versions of Java they all
>> >co-exist quite nicely.  You can tell by reviewing the Control Panel "Add /
>> >Remove Programs" utility that they're all there.
>>
>> >Programs that require Java 1.4 (and I assure you the program itself does not
>> >require update 13 specifically) generally run quite well under later JVMs,
>> >unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?
>>
>> >What evidence do you have that Java 6 actually *overwrote* Java 1.4?
>>
>> >Much more likely is that you simply aren't getting the older one by default.
>> >When something isn't in the Windows PATH, you have to use explicit paths to
>> >executables.
>>
>> Lew,
>> Thanks for input. I am indeed using Windows XP/sp2.>generally run quite well under later JVMs,
>> >>unless they use the identifier "enum".  Why doesn't this one?
>>
>> I don't know why, but it is apparently the case. In fact, the hospital
>> sent out a detailed 6 page memo telling everybody how to install  java
>> 1.4 after uninstalling all other java versions, then to install the
>> latest java, achieving, as you point out multiple versions of java
>> which should co-exist. But it doesn't on my system.
>>
>> >When something isn't in the Windows PATH
>>
>> Interesting thought. I note in my "system variables" there are two
>> entries which contain "java"
>>
>> QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
>> CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip
>>
>> These files no longer exist in my program files directory.
>>
>> Perhaps I should delete these since they do not refer to the java
>> runtime environment version I need for the special program.
>>
>> I do appreciate your thoughts.
>>
>> Jack
>
>Running McKesson's Physicians Portal I presume, as that required
>runtime is familiar.  This problem has been present for well over a
>year and it is astounding that McKesson hasn't fixed it. Yet, without
>the source, you are pretty much stuck trying to find work arounds.
>Most hospital systems will support their users, even on home/office
>machines. Might talk to them. Perhaps if enough docs have problems the
>hospital IT can pressure the company to fix this.
>McKesson's Physicians Portal
Yes, right you are! So far they are recalcitrant, and the hospital IT
people are not allowed to help us, I am told. 
I'm still working on it! I enjoy a challenge.
The program is new for us, and so far only one office has got it
working, and that is a large group with their own IT guy. As more
folks get stumped, maybe they'll help.

Thanks.

Jack

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:52:23 -0500, "Jeff Higgins"
<oohiggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>JClark wrote:
>>
>> QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
>> CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip
>
>Apple's QuickTime Player installs it's own Java runtime, and sets a bunch
>of environment variables, and probably adds some entries to the registry.
>
>> I do appreciate your thoughts.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> 
>
Ohhhhh. Now I recognize where the QT came from. I didn't even think I
had quicktime installed. I can delete these variables, I'm sure.
Should I enter ones specific to my two java run time versions?

Jack

JClark wrote:
...
>I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
>to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
>requires java 1.4.2_13.
>
>I was instructed to do the following:  ...

I think a better strategy is to entirely ignore those instructions,
and 'send it back to the manufacturer' with a question as
to why their software requires a version of the Java Plug-In
that is ..
a) already in EOL
b) 3 versions behind the latest 1.4.2 available (not that I pay
much attention to 1.4.2, but AFAIR, the latest release was 
essentially a security related bug fix - so it is quite possible
that _13 suffers from a security bug that is now 'well-known').

You might also test this theory of the software not running
in later versions.  There are only a few (stupid and fragile) 
things that might have been done in the code, that would 
prevent it from running in later versions.  

To test it in a later run-time version, I suggest you hire the
services of a consultant (one who claims to know about
Java versioning issues, specifically).

-- 
Andrew Thompson
http://www.physci.org/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-setup/200711/1

JClark wrote:
>>>
>>> QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
>>> CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip
>>
>>Apple's QuickTime Player installs it's own Java runtime, and sets a bunch
>>of environment variables, and probably adds some entries to the registry.
>>
> Ohhhhh. Now I recognize where the QT came from. I didn't even think I
> had quicktime installed. I can delete these variables, I'm sure.
> Should I enter ones specific to my two java run time versions?
>

Shrugs. Roedy Green has some info on classpath at:
<http://mindprod.com/jgloss/classpath.html> 

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:34:54 -0500, "Jeff Higgins"
<oohiggins@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>JClark wrote:
>>>>
>>>> QTJAVA    c:\program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\qtjava.zip
>>>> CLASSPATH  .;c:program files\java\jre1.5.0_06\ext\qtjava.zip
>>>
>>>Apple's QuickTime Player installs it's own Java runtime, and sets a bunch
>>>of environment variables, and probably adds some entries to the registry.
>>>
>> Ohhhhh. Now I recognize where the QT came from. I didn't even think I
>> had quicktime installed. I can delete these variables, I'm sure.
>> Should I enter ones specific to my two java run time versions?
>>
>
>Shrugs. Roedy Green has some info on classpath at:
><http://mindprod.com/jgloss/classpath.html> 
>
Thanks. At least that gave me definitions and difference between path
and classpath. Not sure it will help in my current problem though, and
I won't pursue it in the interest of not getting more confused.

Jack

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:21:41 GMT, "Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe>
wrote:

>JClark wrote:
>..
>>I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
>>to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
>>requires java 1.4.2_13.
>>
>>I was instructed to do the following:  ...
>
>I think a better strategy is to entirely ignore those instructions,
>and 'send it back to the manufacturer' with a question as
>to why their software requires a version of the Java Plug-In
>that is ..
>a) already in EOL
>b) 3 versions behind the latest 1.4.2 available (not that I pay
>much attention to 1.4.2, but AFAIR, the latest release was 
>essentially a security related bug fix - so it is quite possible
>that _13 suffers from a security bug that is now 'well-known').
>
>You might also test this theory of the software not running
>in later versions.  There are only a few (stupid and fragile) 
>things that might have been done in the code, that would 
>prevent it from running in later versions.  
>
>To test it in a later run-time version, I suggest you hire the
>services of a consultant (one who claims to know about
>Java versioning issues, specifically).
Andrew,

Your points seem quite appropriate. But corporate America must not be
listening. If you google "physician portal" java, you get at least 500
hits, and many of them are hospital sites advising their staff that
they must use java 1.4, etc. Nobody addresses the problems you cite
which may occur with an outdated version on your machine.

I was instructed that if I uninstalled all versions of java, then
clean installed 1.4.2_13, then also installed the latest version
(6.1), that all would be OK. Not so. It works fine if I just use 1.4,
but when I install the newest version alongside 1.4 (both show up in
my system), IE  automatically opens the newer version which won't work
with the McKesson viewer. 

Rather than hire a consultant, I'm going to wait and see what the
hospital does. If everybody has the same problem, I think they may try
to help us.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jack

JClark wrote:
>>
>>JClark wrote:
>>
> Thanks. At least that gave me definitions and difference between path
> and classpath. Not sure it will help in my current problem though, and
> I won't pursue it in the interest of not getting more confused.

From your reply to Andrew:

> It works fine if I just use 1.4,
> but when I install the newest version alongside 1.4 (both show up in
> my system), IE  automatically opens the newer version which won't work
> with the McKesson viewer.

Just a WAG.  Have you looked at your Internet Options in IE's Tools menu?
More specifically, the Manage Add-ons and the options under Advanced.

On Nov 19, 10:54 pm, JClark <jcl...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:21:41 GMT, "Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >JClark wrote:
> >..
> >>I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
> >>to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
> >>requires java 1.4.2_13.
>
> >>I was instructed to do the following:  ...
>
> >I think a better strategy is to entirely ignore those instructions,
> >and 'send it back to the manufacturer' with a question as
> >to why their software requires a version of the Java Plug-In
> >that is ..
> >a) already in EOL
> >b) 3 versions behind the latest 1.4.2 available (not that I pay
> >much attention to 1.4.2, but AFAIR, the latest release was
> >essentially a security related bug fix - so it is quite possible
> >that _13 suffers from a security bug that is now 'well-known').
>
> >You might also test this theory of the software not running
> >in later versions.  There are only a few (stupid and fragile)
> >things that might have been done in the code, that would
> >prevent it from running in later versions.  
>
> >To test it in a later run-time version, I suggest you hire the
> >services of a consultant (one who claims to know about
> >Java versioning issues, specifically).
>
> Andrew,
>
> Your points seem quite appropriate. But corporate America must not be
> listening. If you google "physician portal" java, you get at least 500
> hits, and many of them are hospital sites advising their staff that
> they must use java 1.4, etc. Nobody addresses the problems you cite
> which may occur with an outdated version on your machine.
>
> I was instructed that if I uninstalled all versions of java, then
> clean installed 1.4.2_13, then also installed the latest version
> (6.1), that all would be OK. Not so. It works fine if I just use 1.4,
> but when I install the newest version alongside 1.4 (both show up in
> my system), IE  automatically opens the newer version which won't work
> with the McKesson viewer.
>
> Rather than hire a consultant, I'm going to wait and see what the
> hospital does. If everybody has the same problem, I think they may try
> to help us.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Jack- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm at my office now, running Portal on this machine. It has currently
installed JRE 1.4.2_13, also J2SE Runtime 5.0 updates 6,9,10,11, and
Java SE Runtime Environment 6, updates 1,2,3, JDK Development
environment 5 and 6. The rest of the setup - WinXP Pro service pack 2,
Internet Explorer 6.0 (IMPORTANT - Portal is not supposed to run on
version 7). I get Portal to run most features on my other computers,
and using Firefox, but I have difficulty getting images to appear
(radiology, scanned records). Census, labs, transcriptions work ok no
matter what other runtimes.

Feel free to contact me directly if I can be of more help. I practice
at Wellmont Health Systems in Kingsport, TN, and you can contact me at
jeffrey dot summers at gmail dot com.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:30:00 -0800 (PST), Jeff
<jeffrey.summers@gmail.com> wrote:

>(IMPORTANT - Portal is not supposed to run on
>version 7).
Jeffrey

>(IMPORTANT - Portal is not supposed to run on
>version 7).

You may have hit the nail on the head there! I saw that one one of the
websites when I did the google search. I was at my hospital today and
looked at the system on several computers there. All of them had IE
six. One of the stations in a surgeons lounge had only 1.4.1_13.

I also talked with the IT professional for a large group here and he
ran into the same obstacles I did in many cases. 

What I'm going to do is roll back IE7 to IE6 (done automatically when
you uninstall IE7), then uninstall all java versions and reinstall
with 1.4 first.

I'll report back results.

Many thanks.

Jack

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:35:51 GMT, JClark <jclark@nomail.invalid>
wrote:

>Hello Group:
>
>I'm having problems getting two versions of java runtime environment
>to work together. A program I need to view my charts at a hospital
>requires java 1.4.2_13.
>
>I was instructed to do the following:
>Uninstall all versions of java.
>Install java 1.4.2_13
>configure 1.4.2_13
>Install any later versions of java.
>
>But here's what happens:
>
>If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
>the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
>longer access the charts.
>
>Here are the names of the programs I'm installing, in that order, with
>reboot inbetween. (The files were downloaded from the Sun site):
>
>j2re-1_4_2_13-windows-i586-p.exe
>jre-6u3-windows-i586-p.exe
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>
>Jack
>
>
>
Success, I think!

What I did first was to roll back IE 7 to IE 6. This still didn't
work, so I uninstalled jre 1.6 and installed jre 1.5.0_13.
I can now open the viewer and see the records.

Apparently the latest version of java runtime doesn't play nice with
the earlier 1.4. And I'll take Jeff's word for it that IE 7 is also a
problem. I don't use IE much anyway.

I appreciate all the input from posters.

Now I need to share this info with all the other local guys who are
having problems with this setup.

Again, many thanks to all!

Jack

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:35:51 GMT, JClark <jclark@nomail.invalid>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
>the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
>longer access the charts.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html#MULTIPLE
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 04:10:47 GMT, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:35:51 GMT, JClark <jclark@nomail.invalid>
>wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>>If I install only the older version, it works fine, but if I install
>>the latest jre 6.3, it seems to overwrite the older one, and I can no
>>longer access the charts.
>
>see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html#MULTIPLE
Thanks, Roedy. An interesting site, indeed. I need to study it some
more. Perhaps it can teach me how to correct my issue. Although the
workaround is "working" now.
Jack