Recently, I have been doing some job searching, career advancement, you
know the deal.  I am a J2EE Developer, standard Web application
platform, Oracle backend. I have been doing a little Java research,
going over how many jobs are growing in different areas, getting a feel
for Java.  The language may not have as many features as Python or
other open source languages, but J2EE is growing, at least right now.

Anyway, I have made an observation.  Here in Atlanta, the job market is
pretty steady.  There are probably more diverse positions in California
or Seattle, for example C/C++, but here the market is J2EE.  Now,
getting to the heart of my post, I have noticed a trend, that there
don't seem to be many black males or females in the J2EE market, I have
noticed, zero.  So my question, are they any out there?  I am a young
black male, staying true to development.  And, this is totally
irrelevant, I could care less, I am just kind of curious what the
environment is out there?  And speak up, Raise your hand.  I have
worked with Nigerian/African developers with top-notch experience.
But, I have rarely encountered full-time, working developers.  I would
also like to see if there are any latino developers out there.  Now, we
have talked about an influx of Chinese and Indian technical workers, I
thought I would look at the American makeup.

And, I have worked with older developers, very few young, even in the
fare city of Atlanta.

And then the next question, Why do you think this trend occurs.  Now
you can get into the negative, racial comments, "well black people have
a poor education and aren't right for these type of jobs".  There are
countries like Brazil's economy that is one-eighth the size of the
United States.  And they are really make a mark on among the Java
community.  Developers can come from anywhere, like I mentioned
earlier, it is really irrelevant.

So, what say ye?

A little plug, looking for a position in Atlanta:

Berlin Brown
http://www.jroller.com/page/berlinbrown

Honestly?  And this is as a developer in Atlanta... black people don't
WANT to do it.  The black culture (not race) in the U.S. doesn't like
eggheads, it makes them look like sellouts to the white culture.  I
know that's a generalization, but it happens to be true often enough.

When I think back to my college days (10+ years ago), I can think of
only one black person in the whole college of engineering (where
computer science was taught).  It's not that blacks can't do it, they
don't want to... there was plenty of blacks on campus in other
disciplines (mostly liberal arts, especially communications).  There
were dozens of asians, indians, etc... one black guy.

Just my opinion.

I agree.  My family consist of educated people.  Most of the members of
my family are pretty socialable.  For me, I am very introverted.   The
black culture probably lends itself more to careers that involve a lot
of interaction(for the educated, of course).  I see Law, Education,
Social Work, Business administration type stuff, are popular fields,
even medicine.

Interesting...

GfxGuy wrote:
> Honestly?  And this is as a developer in Atlanta... black people don't
> WANT to do it.  The black culture (not race) in the U.S. doesn't like
> eggheads, it makes them look like sellouts to the white culture.  I
> know that's a generalization, but it happens to be true often enough.
> 
> When I think back to my college days (10+ years ago), I can think of
> only one black person in the whole college of engineering (where
> computer science was taught).  It's not that blacks can't do it, they
> don't want to... there was plenty of blacks on campus in other
> disciplines (mostly liberal arts, especially communications).  There
> were dozens of asians, indians, etc... one black guy.
> 
> Just my opinion.

I'd agree. I'm in London, but it was the same story. The computing half 
of my degree course (based in Java) had a student body that I'd say was 
roughly 50% ethnic. Lots of guys (and some girls) with Asian 
backgrounds, Middle Eastern backgrounds, and some with South American 
backgrounds.

I can only recall ever seeing one guy, and one girl from black-African 
backgrounds. The girl was a far, far better student than I was.

So my experience agrees: it's not that black students couldn't possibly 
succeed in computing. It's just that it doesn't appeal to them as much 
as it does to students with other types of genetic heritage.
-- 
Bob

"It's just that it doesn't appeal to them as much
as it does to students with other types of genetic heritage"??

What a bunch of bull!

So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
makeup? Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
Would better fit their racial tendencies.

How about other "genetic heritages"? Did you identify any identify any
other racial tendencies?

Avshi <avshi.avital@gmail.com> wrote:
> So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
> genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
> makeup? Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
> Would better fit their racial tendencies.
> 
> How about other "genetic heritages"? Did you identify any identify any
> other racial tendencies?

Thank you for this piece of humour; I literally fell off my chair
laughing.


-- 
Oscar Kind                                    http://home.hccnet.nl/okind/
Software Developer                    for contact information, see website

PGP Key fingerprint:    91F3 6C72 F465 5E98 C246  61D9 2C32 8E24 097B B4E2

"Avshi" <avshi.avital@gmail.com> wrote in news:1117348319.367541.299030
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> What a bunch of bull!
> 
> So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
> genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
> makeup? Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
> Would better fit their racial tendencies.
> 
> How about other "genetic heritages"? Did you identify any identify any
> other racial tendencies?



I have this argument with my father in law frequently. He is of the 
opinion that there are very distinct differences between black and white 
that go well beyond outer appearance. He points out undeveloped Africa as 
an example, but ignores colonialism's impact on the entire continent. 

My opinion will have opposition as well, but I believe that although 
genetics are a factor in the general characteristics of a group (after 
all, there's no reason to believe that genetic qualities of distinctive 
groups end at the skin level), genes are far more important on an 
*individual* basis. 

IMHO, the inability of blacks to find real success in America is due to 
what I term their "culture of victimization." Blacks, as a group, are 
long time under-achievers because the very strong social conditioning 
within their culture tells young blacks that they must be different from 
whites. Education is not a priority, and that perpetuates the problem. 
Some people point to the overwhelming success of blacks in sports as an 
example that they are somehow more athletic. Rather, I think it merely 
demonstrates that American black culture places a higher priority on 
athletics as a means to success than other American sub-cultures.

Of course, there are many exceptions, and as the overall culture changes, 
more and more blacks refuse to accept the dictates of their own culture, 
and find success through education and hard work, for which they are just 
as well suited as any other race of people on earth.

Avshi wrote:
> "It's just that it doesn't appeal to them as much
> as it does to students with other types of genetic heritage"??
> 
> What a bunch of bull!
> 
> So are you attributing their ("they", being those with a "black"
> genetic heritage) supposed dislike to computing to their genetic
> makeup?

No, I think it's cultural. Every person is an individual. But this 
discussion is about averages.

If it sounds like I'm saying that genetic makeup sets anything in stone, 
then I apologise.

> Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
> Would better fit their racial tendencies.

Now you're making racial assumptions. My skin colour does not 
automatically endow me with the belief that black people should still be 
slaves or manual workers.
-- 
Bob

And for me, just being realistic, I grew up in Austin, the black
culture is different there than it is in Atlanta.

"Yeah, "They" should probably be picking cotton in the field.
"Would better fit their racial tendencies. "

Silly.