#### Issue with JDK/JRE Environment Setup

I installed the jdk and jre here:

C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin
and
C:\Java\jre6

currently my environment variables are as follows:

System Variables,
PATH=C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C:
\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C:
\Perl64\site\bin;C:\Perl64\bin;C:\Ruby\bin;%SystemRoot%
\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files
(x86)\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.0\bin;%SYSTEMROOT%
\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files
\Teleca Shared;C:\PROGRA~2\IBM\CLIENT~1\Shared;C:\Program Files
\CLIENT~1\Emulator;C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime\QTSystem\;C:
\strawberry\c\bin;C:\strawberry\perl\site\bin;C:\strawberry\perl\bin;C:
\Program Files (x86)\Windows Live\Shared;C:\Java\1.6.0_24\bin

and

CLASSPATH=.;C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\lib\ext\QTJava.zip

any ideas what is going on????

I get the following when I run these two commands:

c:\dev\java>javac HelloWorldApp.java
'javac' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

c:\dev\java>java -version
java version "1.6.0_23"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode, sharing)

also

i think i have the jre installed twice, the one i installed today is:
C:\Java\jre6

the original jre was here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\lib\ext
\QTJava.zip

not sure if that is an issue. I am all ears though...

 0
genesis456
2/22/2011 9:39:40 PM
comp.lang.java.programmer 52261 articles. 40 followers.

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On Feb 22, 4:39=A0pm, genesis456 <gregory.alexander.robe...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I installed the jdk and jre here:
>
> C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin
> and
> C:\Java\jre6
>
> currently my environment variables are as follows:
>
> System Variables,
> PATH=3DC:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C:
> \Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C:
> \Perl64\site\bin;C:\Perl64\bin;C:\Ruby\bin;%SystemRoot%
> \system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files
> (x86)\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.0\bin;%SYSTEMROOT%
> \System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files
> \Teleca Shared;C:\PROGRA~2\IBM\CLIENT~1\Shared;C:\Program Files
> \CLIENT~1\Emulator;C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime\QTSystem\;C:
> \strawberry\c\bin;C:\strawberry\perl\site\bin;C:\strawberry\perl\bin;C:
> \Program Files (x86)\Windows Live\Shared;C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin

Changed C:\Java\1.6.0_24\bin to C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin

BUT still am faced with the same issue when using javac from the
command line.

>
> and
>
> CLASSPATH=3D.;C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\lib\ext\QTJava.zip
>
> any ideas what is going on????
>
> I get the following when I run these two commands:
>
> c:\dev\java>javac HelloWorldApp.java
> 'javac' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
>
> c:\dev\java>java -version
> java version "1.6.0_23"
> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode, sharing)
>
> also
>
> i think i have the jre installed twice, the one i installed today is:
> C:\Java\jre6
>
> the original jre was here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\lib\ext
> \QTJava.zip
>
> not sure if that is an issue. I am all ears though...


 0
grobs456
2/22/2011 10:03:09 PM
On 2/22/2011 5:03 PM, grobs456 wrote:
> On Feb 22, 4:39 pm, genesis456 <gregory.alexander.robe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I installed the jdk and jre here:
>>
>> C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin
>> and
>> C:\Java\jre6
>>
>> currently my environment variables are as follows:
>>
>> System Variables,
>> PATH=C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C:
>> \Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C:
>> \Perl64\site\bin;C:\Perl64\bin;C:\Ruby\bin;%SystemRoot%
>> \system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files
>> (x86)\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.0\bin;%SYSTEMROOT%
>> \System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files
>> \Teleca Shared;C:\PROGRA~2\IBM\CLIENT~1\Shared;C:\Program Files
>> \CLIENT~1\Emulator;C:\Program Files (x86)\QuickTime\QTSystem\;C:
>> \strawberry\c\bin;C:\strawberry\perl\site\bin;C:\strawberry\perl\bin;C:
>> \Program Files (x86)\Windows Live\Shared;C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin
>
> Changed C:\Java\1.6.0_24\bin to C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin
>
> BUT still am faced with the same issue when using javac from the
> command line.
>
>>
>> and
>>
>> CLASSPATH=.;C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\lib\ext\QTJava.zip
>>
>> any ideas what is going on????
>>
>> I get the following when I run these two commands:
>>
>> c:\dev\java>javac HelloWorldApp.java
>> 'javac' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
>> operable program or batch file.
>>
>> c:\dev\java>java -version
>> java version "1.6.0_23"
>> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05)
>> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode, sharing)
>>
>> also
>>
>> i think i have the jre installed twice, the one i installed today is:
>> C:\Java\jre6
>>
>> the original jre was here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\lib\ext
>> \QTJava.zip
>>
>> not sure if that is an issue. I am all ears though...
>

That message means the directory containing javac.exe is not listed
on the PATH setting.  I suspect you didn't install the JDK where
you think you did:

C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin

is not the default location.  Go there in Windows Explorer and
see if that is correct.  If not, try looking in the default location:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin

the Apache.org site or from

(I mention this since you appear, like myself, to have installed the 32
bit version on a 64 bit Windows, and even with Windows SP1 installed, that
darn installer won't even offer to install the JavaDB.  In the past you could
isn't there.  *sigh*)

Finally, I would clear CLASSPATH completely.  Every time you do a QuickTime
update it will get recreated.  But the pathname used, ...jre6\lib\ext\QTJava.zip
means it will be found automatically by Java without setting CLASSPATH,
and QuickTime by itself doesn't apparently need or use this.

You will probably want to set additional environment variables, JAVA_HOME to
where the JDK was installed, DERBY_HOME to where JavaDB was installed (and
you can add %DERBY_HOME%\bin to PATH too).

I have these Java related environment settings:

ANT_HOME=C:\Java\ant
CATALINA_HOME=C:\Program Files (x86)\Apache Software Foundation\Tomcat 7.0
CLASSPATH=.;C:\Java\junit4.8.1\junit-4.8.1.jar
JAVA_HOME=C:\Java
PATH=...;%CATALINA_HOME%\bin;C:\Program Files
(x86)\Java\jre6\bin;%JAVA_HOME%\bin;%ANT_HOME%\bin;%DERBY_HOME%\bin;...

You will note I avoid version numbers in the installer paths when convenient,
and I generally uninstall the old JDK/ant/JavaDB/whatever then install the
with environment variables (or bookmarks to HTML documentation).  This
may not be best practice for a production or shared development environment,
but for home PC development it seems to work well.

Hope this helps!  And if someone reading this has the ear of the
to their website (and/or fix the installer!)

--
Wayne

 0
Wayne
2/23/2011 8:00:01 AM
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:39:40 -0800 (PST), genesis456
<gregory.alexander.roberts@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly
quoted someone who said :

>any ideas what is going on????

there is quite a bit you must do manually to finish off the install.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html
--
http://mindprod.com
Refactor early. If you procrastinate, you will have
even more code to adjust based on the faulty design.
..


 0
Roedy
2/23/2011 9:20:59 AM
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 03:00:01 -0500, Wayne <nospam@all.invalid> wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Note you need to add the JRE bin as well.

The JDK by default will install two JREs as well.

You mainly need to install a separate JRE when you are using a 64-bit
JDK and want a 32-bit JRE as well.
--
http://mindprod.com
Refactor early. If you procrastinate, you will have
even more code to adjust based on the faulty design.
..


 0
Roedy
2/23/2011 12:37:01 PM
On Feb 23, 7:37=A0am, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid>
wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 03:00:01 -0500, Wayne <nos...@all.invalid> wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
> >Note you need to add the JRE bin as well. =A0
>
> The JDK by default will install two JREs as well.
>
> You mainly need to install a separate JRE when you are using a 64-bit
> JDK and want a 32-bit JRE as well.
> --
> Roedy Green Canadian Mind Productshttp://mindprod.com
> Refactor early. If you procrastinate, you will have
> even more code to adjust based on the faulty design.
> .
I definitely installed the 64 bit version of the JDK. The JRE that was
installed with the 64 bit JDK should also be 64 bit right? I installed
them both in C:\Java, which I realize is not the default.  Maybe I
could remove the JRE from Program Files.

I don't care if my JRE is 32 or 64 bit. I just want to compile some
Java code. I seem to have gotten this process mucked up as I haven't
done this in awhile. :/

 0
grobs456
2/23/2011 3:06:26 PM
Wayne,
I appreciate the info. Seems logical and straightforward. I will

 0
grobs456
2/23/2011 3:10:21 PM
On 23-02-11 16:06, grobs456 wrote:
> On Feb 23, 7:37 am, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 03:00:01 -0500, Wayne <nos...@all.invalid> wrote,
>> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>
>>> Note you need to add the JRE bin as well.
>>
>> The JDK by default will install two JREs as well.
>>
>> You mainly need to install a separate JRE when you are using a 64-bit
>> JDK and want a 32-bit JRE as well.
>> --
>> Roedy Green Canadian Mind Productshttp://mindprod.com
>> Refactor early. If you procrastinate, you will have
>> even more code to adjust based on the faulty design.
>> .
> I definitely installed the 64 bit version of the JDK. The JRE that was
> installed with the 64 bit JDK should also be 64 bit right? I installed
> them both in C:\Java, which I realize is not the default.  Maybe I
> could remove the JRE from Program Files.

Dont remove them, but try to uninstall them....

--
Luuk

 0
Luuk
2/23/2011 3:12:59 PM
On 02/23/2011 10:10 AM, grobs456 wrote:
> Wayne,
> I appreciate the info. Seems logical and straightforward. I will

You don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE bin in your PATH.

--
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.

 0
Lew
2/23/2011 3:44:00 PM
On 2/23/2011 10:44 AM, Lew wrote:
> On 02/23/2011 10:10 AM, grobs456 wrote:
>> Wayne,
>> I appreciate the info. Seems logical and straightforward. I will
>
> You don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE bin in your PATH.
>

The JDK/bin contains various tools such as javac.exe, while the
public JRE/bin contains the current JRE tools.  The private JRE installed
as part of the JDK is not updated when you update the public JRE.

Apparently the reason for two JREs (one public, one part of the JDK) is
that the JDK tools are written in Java and require a stable JRE to run.
But usually developers want to use the latest JRE for their code, so
using the private JRE instead is not a good idea (except to run JDK tools).
And since some tools (java.exe) are in both locations, you want to
make sure the public JRE is listed first on the PATH.

--
Wayne

 0
Wayne
2/23/2011 6:54:50 PM
On Feb 23, 1:54=A0pm, Wayne <nos...@all.invalid> wrote:
> On 2/23/2011 10:44 AM, Lew wrote:
>
> > On 02/23/2011 10:10 AM, grobs456 wrote:
> >> Wayne,
> >> I appreciate the info. Seems logical and straightforward. I will
> >> follow your logic and see what happens. Thanks for sharing!
>
> > You don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE bin in your PATH=
..
>
> The JDK/bin contains various tools such as javac.exe, while the
> public JRE/bin contains the current JRE tools. =A0The private JRE install=
ed
> as part of the JDK is not updated when you update the public JRE.
>
> Apparently the reason for two JREs (one public, one part of the JDK) is
> that the JDK tools are written in Java and require a stable JRE to run.
> But usually developers want to use the latest JRE for their code, so
> using the private JRE instead is not a good idea (except to run JDK tools=
).
> And since some tools (java.exe) are in both locations, you want to
> make sure the public JRE is listed first on the PATH.
>
> --
> Wayne

So right now I don't have a public JRE if I'm not mistaken. I removed
all traces of it. My assumption is that I will end up installing it if
I were to install QuickTime, or visit certain pages, and if I install
it in that manner it will modify my PATH variables. Is that correct?

Thanks for the info. That makes sense. So is there anything else you
would do if you were in my shoes?

 0
grobs456
2/23/2011 7:09:37 PM
On 02/23/2011 02:09 PM, grobs456 wrote:
> On Feb 23, 1:54 pm, Wayne<nos...@all.invalid>  wrote:
>> On 2/23/2011 10:44 AM, Lew wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/23/2011 10:10 AM, grobs456 wrote:
>>>> Wayne,
>>>> I appreciate the info. Seems logical and straightforward. I will
>>
>>> You don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE bin in your PATH.
>>
>> The JDK/bin contains various tools such as javac.exe, while the
>> public JRE/bin contains the current JRE tools.  The private JRE installed
>> as part of the JDK is not updated when you update the public JRE.
>>
>> Apparently the reason for two JREs (one public, one part of the JDK) is
>> that the JDK tools are written in Java and require a stable JRE to run.
>> But usually developers want to use the latest JRE for their code, so
>> using the private JRE instead is not a good idea (except to run JDK tools).

Since one normally updates the public JRE and the JDK in tandem, this is a
difference that makes no difference.

The actual logic is that the public JRE is for people who don't want a JDK.
If you do want a JDK, you don't even need the so-called "public" JRE because
you get the *exact same thing* in the "jre/" subdirectory of the JDK.

>> And since some tools (java.exe) are in both locations, you want to
>> make sure the public JRE is listed first on the PATH.

No, you want to make sure only one of them is listed in your path.

>>
>> --
>> Wayne

Don't quote sigs.

> So right now I don't have a public JRE if I'm not mistaken. I removed

Wrong.  You do have a public JRE.

> all traces of it. My assumption is that I will end up installing it if
> I were to install QuickTime, or visit certain pages, and if I install
> it in that manner it will modify my PATH variables. Is that correct?

That all depends on you.

> Thanks for the info. That makes sense. So is there anything else you
> would do if you were in my shoes?

I would disregard many elements of Wayne's advice.

Do not put more than one JRE at a time in your PATH.

The "jre/" that comes with the JDK *is* the public JRE.

You can, if you wish, also install the exact same public JRE in places where
browsers expect it, should you so choose.  That will give you three versions
of the JRE.  All the same.

Only one of them should be in your PATH.  I choose the one in
"$JAVA_HOME"/bin/ (Windows: "%JAVA_HOME%"\bin), myself. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 2/23/2011 11:21:54 PM On 23-02-2011 18:21, Lew wrote: > On 02/23/2011 02:09 PM, grobs456 wrote: >> On Feb 23, 1:54 pm, Wayne<nos...@all.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2/23/2011 10:44 AM, Lew wrote: >>>> On 02/23/2011 10:10 AM, grobs456 wrote: >>>>> Wayne, >>>>> I appreciate the info. Seems logical and straightforward. I will >>>>> follow your logic and see what happens. Thanks for sharing! >>> >>>> You don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE bin in your >>>> PATH. >>> >>> The JDK/bin contains various tools such as javac.exe, while the >>> public JRE/bin contains the current JRE tools. The private JRE installed >>> as part of the JDK is not updated when you update the public JRE. >>> >>> Apparently the reason for two JREs (one public, one part of the JDK) is >>> that the JDK tools are written in Java and require a stable JRE to run. >>> But usually developers want to use the latest JRE for their code, so >>> using the private JRE instead is not a good idea (except to run JDK >>> tools). > > Since one normally updates the public JRE and the JDK in tandem, this is > a difference that makes no difference. > > The actual logic is that the public JRE is for people who don't want a > JDK. If you do want a JDK, you don't even need the so-called "public" > JRE because you get the *exact same thing* in the "jre/" subdirectory of > the JDK. You don't need it, but you still get it. Arne   0 UTF 2/24/2011 2:23:55 AM Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Lew wrote: >> The actual logic is that the public JRE is for people who don't want a >> JDK. If you do want a JDK, you don't even need the so-called "public" >> JRE because you get the *exact same thing* in the "jre/" subdirectory of >> the JDK. > > You don't need it, but you still get it. Optionally. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 2/24/2011 2:32:27 AM Wayne wrote: > That message means the directory containing javac.exe is not listed > on the PATH setting. I suspect you didn't install the JDK where > you think you did: > > C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin > > is not the default location. Go there in Windows Explorer and > see if that is correct. If not, try looking in the default location: > > C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin > > Note you need to add the JRE bin as well. Also you may want to download > the new version of JavaDB, 10.6.2.1, which you can download from > the Apache.org site or from > <http://download.java.net/maven/glassfish/javadb/javadb/10.6.2.1/>. You > can also download an even more current version from derby.apache.org. Wow. Now why would you go and misinform people like that? You do not "need to add the JRE bin as well". That's completely bogus. Derby is already included in the JDK download. Why do you advise him to download it again, separately? He's already got it. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 2/28/2011 4:29:10 AM Wayne wrote: > The JDK/bin contains various tools such as javac.exe, while the > public JRE/bin contains the current JRE tools. The private JRE installed > as part of the JDK is not updated when you update the public JRE. Depends on how you do your update. I got big news for you - what you are pleased to call the "private" JRE is identical to what you call the "public" JRE. The tools in the JDK bin/ are a superset of those in the JRE bin/, not a disjoint set. Get your facts straight. > Apparently the reason for two JREs (one public, one part of the JDK) is > that the JDK tools are written in Java and require a stable JRE to run. > But usually developers want to use the latest JRE for their code, so > using the private JRE instead is not a good idea (except to run JDK tools). > And since some tools (java.exe) are in both locations, you want to > make sure the public JRE is listed first on the PATH. Nonsense. I don't know where you get those ideas, but they're not valid. In fact, they're a pack of lies. For example (using the only Java for which I have both versions handy):$ find jdk1.6.0_22 jre1.6.0_22 -name java
jdk1.6.0_22/db/demo/programs/scores/java
jdk1.6.0_22/db/demo/programs/vtis/java
jdk1.6.0_22/bin/java
jdk1.6.0_22/jre/bin/java
jre1.6.0_22/bin/java

$diff jdk1.6.0_22/bin/java jdk1.6.0_22/jre/bin/java$ diff jdk1.6.0_22/bin/java jre1.6.0_22/bin/java

$Please stop spreading such weird and fallacious notions. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 2/28/2011 4:34:10 AM On 2/27/2011 11:34 PM, Lew wrote: > Wayne wrote: >> The JDK/bin contains various tools such as javac.exe, while the >> public JRE/bin contains the current JRE tools. The private JRE installed >> as part of the JDK is not updated when you update the public JRE. > > Depends on how you do your update. I got big news for you - what you are pleased to > call the "private" JRE is identical to what you call the "public" JRE. The tools in > the JDK bin/ are a superset of those in the JRE bin/, not a disjoint set. > > Get your facts straight. > >> Apparently the reason for two JREs (one public, one part of the JDK) is >> that the JDK tools are written in Java and require a stable JRE to run. >> But usually developers want to use the latest JRE for their code, so >> using the private JRE instead is not a good idea (except to run JDK tools). >> And since some tools (java.exe) are in both locations, you want to >> make sure the public JRE is listed first on the PATH. > > Nonsense. I don't know where you get those ideas, but they're not valid. In fact, > they're a pack of lies. > > For example (using the only Java for which I have both versions handy): > >$ find jdk1.6.0_22 jre1.6.0_22 -name java
> jdk1.6.0_22/db/demo/programs/scores/java
> jdk1.6.0_22/db/demo/programs/vtis/java
> jdk1.6.0_22/bin/java
> jdk1.6.0_22/jre/bin/java
> jre1.6.0_22/bin/java
>
> $diff jdk1.6.0_22/bin/java jdk1.6.0_22/jre/bin/java > >$ diff jdk1.6.0_22/bin/java jre1.6.0_22/bin/java
>
> $> > Please stop spreading such weird and fallacious notions. > The two JREs are identical right after you've updated the JDK. But if later the JRE alone is updated, only one of the two JREs get updated, the "public" one. So if you have automatic updates set in the Java control panel, then over time the two JREs would be different versions. Running the 6u22 JDK tools, compiled against a 6u22 JRE, may not be safe to run on a 6u24 JRE. The "private" JRE is only used by the JDK tools, the latest "public" JRE by your applications. If you are running the 6u22 javac with a 6u24 JRE, or vice-versa, the results will probably work fine, but there is no reason to take such a chance. (E.g., what if some static final int changed values in some standard library?) Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you don't agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you could tell me so politely, or not at all. In this case, I think you forgot that the public JRE can be updated independently (and in some cases automatically) from the private JRE used by the JDK tools. But if I'm wrong, please explain the real reason why the JDK installs a separate copy of the JRE (along with the public JRE). -- Wayne   0 Wayne 3/1/2011 8:39:06 AM On 2/27/2011 11:29 PM, Lew wrote: > Wayne wrote: >> That message means the directory containing javac.exe is not listed >> on the PATH setting. I suspect you didn't install the JDK where >> you think you did: >> >> C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin >> >> is not the default location. Go there in Windows Explorer and >> see if that is correct. If not, try looking in the default location: >> >> C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin >> >> Note you need to add the JRE bin as well. Also you may want to download >> the new version of JavaDB, 10.6.2.1, which you can download from >> the Apache.org site or from >> <http://download.java.net/maven/glassfish/javadb/javadb/10.6.2.1/>. You >> can also download an even more current version from derby.apache.org. > > Wow. > > Now why would you go and misinform people like that? > > You do not "need to add the JRE bin as well". That's completely bogus. > > Derby is already included in the JDK download. Why do you advise him to download it > again, separately? He's already got it. > Lew you need to review the posts made here over the past several years on this issue. The JDK installer won't allow you to install JavaDB (also known as Apache Derby) in Windows 7, sometimes. This is a known bug in the installer and the problem has been noted several times in this news group. Since the version of JavaDB was updated in the current JDK release for the first time in a long while, you may have forgotten the discussion; if the version in the installer is the same as what you already have installed, it is a non-issue and hasn't been mentioned in a while. But in this case, the version was changed and since the OP was using Windows 7 and having difficulties, I thought it would be useful to mention the new version and where to obtain it. Exactly what to you feel is misleading about this information? Why did this merit a "Wow." and the other negative remarks from you? Elsewhere in this thread Lew noted that he doesn't like having the public JRE/bin and the private JRE/bin in the PATH. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, I believe you are wrong on this issue. It's probably safe most of the time to use the one JRE as Lew prefers, but I don't see the harm in playing safe and using the current public JRE (which is what your clients will likely have installed) for your .class files, your applets, and testing your code, and using the private JRE only to run the JDK development tools. Which is why the JDK tools ship with their own JRE in the first place. -- Wayne   0 Wayne 3/1/2011 8:57:26 AM Wayne wrote: > The two JREs are identical right after you've updated the JDK. But > if later the JRE alone is updated, only one of the two JREs get updated, > the "public" one. So if you have automatic updates set in the Java > control panel, then over time the two JREs would be different versions. > Like I said, that depends on how you update. Why would someone working with a JDK set their JRE to auto-update and then be so careless as to let it fall out of synch, even assuming such a one installed both? > Running the 6u22 JDK tools, compiled against a 6u22 JRE, may not be > safe to run on a 6u24 JRE. The "private" JRE is only used by the JDK tools, More bullshit. > the latest "public" JRE by your applications. If you are running the 6u22 javac Unless you establish the JDK as your "public" JRE. > with a 6u24 JRE, or vice-versa, the results will probably work fine, but > there is no reason to take such a chance. (E.g., what if some static final int > changed values in some standard library?) Really, that is nonsense. There are only bug fixes between _xx versions. If you run the 6u22 and 6u24 versions of javac, the only difference will be that the former will have a bug the latter does not. Either will work fine with *any* previous version of Java, save for bugs in those previous versions. Either will work fine with each other's JVM, save for the aforementioned bugs. That's the fact, contrary to what you said. > Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can > be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are > a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you don't I didn't "assume". The things you claimed actually were a pack of lies, weird and fallacious. Don't spread false information then act aggrieved when you're called on it. It's not "rude" to tell the truth. What you did is what's rude, namely tell lies then get upset when that was objectively mentioned. > agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you could > tell me so politely, or not at all. In this case, I think you forgot that > the public JRE can be updated independently (and in some cases automatically) Only if you choose that, which does not obviate your responsibility to ensure coordination of that with other versions where you care. > from the private JRE used by the JDK tools. But if I'm wrong, please explain > the real reason why the JDK installs a separate copy of the JRE (along with > the public JRE). You shouldn't assume I forgot anything, particularly when I addressed it in the post to which you're responding. What's rude is to post false information then act all insulted when it's pointed out that your statements are wrong. Which they were. No "assumption" there - your statements contradicted fact. Then when challenging you play the "rude" card instead of correcting your bad information. That is bad behavior. Why should I coddle your feelings when you are spreading disinformation? I am much more concerned with the feelings of those who follow your mistaken advice. As you should be. Get your ego out of the way. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 3/1/2011 9:47:52 AM On 03/01/2011 03:57 AM, Wayne wrote: > Elsewhere in this thread Lew noted that he doesn't like having the public > JRE/bin and the private JRE/bin in the PATH. But as has been pointed out Not true. What I said was that it isn't necessary. I never said anything about "like" or "don't like". > elsewhere, I believe you are wrong on this issue. It's probably safe No. It is true that you don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE on the PATH. It's useless - you'll only get the first one from the PATH, so why have two? > most of the time to use the one JRE as Lew prefers, but I don't see the It's definitely safe *all* the time. Stop making stuff up. > harm in playing safe and using the current public JRE (which is what your > clients will likely have installed) for your .class files, your applets, What your clients may have installed is *a* JRE - you have no way to know which one. It is also true, and I notice that you don't bother to pretend this is wrong, that the JREs are identical in the two distributions. > and testing your code, and using the private JRE only to run the JDK > development tools. Which is why the JDK tools ship with their own JRE > in the first place. No, they ship with the JDK in the first place so you won't need to download the JRE separately if you're a developer. I never spoke against having more than one JRE or JDK. I have several myself, though as noted above I don't always download the JRE separately, seeing as how it comes with the JDK anyway. Twice over. What I spoke against was having more than one in the PATH, for the objective reason that it does no good. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 3/1/2011 10:10:13 AM On 01/03/2011 09:39, Wayne allegedly wrote: > Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can > be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are > a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you don't > agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you could > tell me so politely, or not at all. A very reasonable and pertinent request, methinks. -- DF.   0 Daniele 3/1/2011 5:54:51 PM On 03/01/2011 12:54 PM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: > On 01/03/2011 09:39, Wayne allegedly wrote: >> Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can >> be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are >> a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you don't >> agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you could >> tell me so politely, or not at all. > > A very reasonable and pertinent request, methinks. No, not when Wayne perpetrated such misinformation. He should correct what he tells people instead of switching to an /ad hominem/ approach. Funny how people call other people "rude" when they don't want to admit that they were wrong, instead of either proving that they were right (which he wasn't) or changing their behavior. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 3/1/2011 6:05:21 PM On 03/01/2011 01:05 PM, Lew wrote: > On 03/01/2011 12:54 PM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: >> On 01/03/2011 09:39, Wayne allegedly wrote: >>> Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can >>> be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are >>> a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you don't >>> agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you could >>> tell me so politely, or not at all. >> >> A very reasonable and pertinent request, methinks. > > No, not when Wayne perpetrated such misinformation. > > He should correct what he tells people instead of switching to an /ad hominem/ > approach. Funny how people call other people "rude" when they don't want to > admit that they were wrong, instead of either proving that they were right > (which he wasn't) or changing their behavior. Furthermore, if being "polite" had worked, Wayne would not have repeated his misinformation four days after I *did* "politely" correct him. He completely ignored that feedback and continued to lie. Then when called on it he calls me "rude". Why did he not even respond to the polite post, then days later complain about rudeness rather than to the (very same) facts? Why did he not correct his fallacies? Isn't it much ruder to continue to lie and to ignore the feedback? -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 3/1/2011 6:15:45 PM On 01/03/2011 19:15, Lew allegedly wrote: > On 03/01/2011 01:05 PM, Lew wrote: >> On 03/01/2011 12:54 PM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: >>> On 01/03/2011 09:39, Wayne allegedly wrote: >>>> Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can >>>> be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are >>>> a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you >>>> don't >>>> agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you >>>> could >>>> tell me so politely, or not at all. >>> >>> A very reasonable and pertinent request, methinks. >> >> No, not when Wayne perpetrated such misinformation. >> >> He should correct what he tells people instead of switching to an /ad >> hominem/ >> approach. Funny how people call other people "rude" when they don't >> want to >> admit that they were wrong, instead of either proving that they were >> right >> (which he wasn't) or changing their behavior. > > Furthermore, if being "polite" had worked, Wayne would not have repeated > his misinformation four days after I *did* "politely" correct him. He > completely ignored that feedback and continued to lie. Then when called > on it he calls me "rude". Why did he not even respond to the polite > post, then days later complain about rudeness rather than to the (very > same) facts? Why did he not correct his fallacies? Isn't it much ruder > to continue to lie and to ignore the feedback? > I disagree. I do think you have been rude. And while I find it perfectly acceptable at times to be rude, I think it was unjustified in this context. On 2011-02-23, you wrote: > You don't need, nor should you have, more than one JRE bin in your > PATH. That is polite, but it's hardly a correction. Unless you demand that people take your word for everything. After that you posted a more elaborate reply where you corrected (in my opinion accurately) his mistakes. There are no replies or spreading misinformation from Wayne after that -- of the two of you, the next one to post were *you*, in what I found a very rude manner, even if the facts were correct. And the post you were replying to was Wayne's post four days before, the _same one_ grobs456 replied to, a reply which gave rise to your elaboration mentioned above. So you've been rebuking him politely and indirectly one time, and then rudely so a second time a few days later. Without any intermittent post from him. To the latter he replied with what you call an /ad hominem/, in my opinion unjustifiedly so. I do not consider that an /ad hominem/, inasmuch as it wasn't an attack on you, but rather a request to you, and one I find reasonable. My opinion. -- DF.   0 Daniele 3/1/2011 6:53:53 PM On 01-03-2011 13:15, Lew wrote: > On 03/01/2011 01:05 PM, Lew wrote: >> On 03/01/2011 12:54 PM, Daniele Futtorovic wrote: >>> On 01/03/2011 09:39, Wayne allegedly wrote: >>>> Lew, you're one of the smartest contributors to this group, but you can >>>> be quite rude in your posts. Please don't assume statements are >>>> a pack of lies, weird and fallacious, or whatever, just because you >>>> don't >>>> agree. If I'm wrong (which happens often!) I'd appreciate it if you >>>> could >>>> tell me so politely, or not at all. >>> >>> A very reasonable and pertinent request, methinks. >> >> No, not when Wayne perpetrated such misinformation. >> >> He should correct what he tells people instead of switching to an /ad >> hominem/ >> approach. Funny how people call other people "rude" when they don't >> want to >> admit that they were wrong, instead of either proving that they were >> right >> (which he wasn't) or changing their behavior. > > Furthermore, if being "polite" had worked, Wayne would not have repeated > his misinformation four days after I *did* "politely" correct him. He > completely ignored that feedback and continued to lie. Then when called > on it he calls me "rude". Why did he not even respond to the polite > post, then days later complain about rudeness rather than to the (very > same) facts? Why did he not correct his fallacies? Isn't it much ruder > to continue to lie and to ignore the feedback? Well - also in this case: if you used "spreading incorrect information" instead of "lie" then the point may get better through. I have no reason to believe that Wayne deliberately want to mislead people, troll or in any other way did it with a purpose. Arne   0 UTF 3/1/2011 8:39:33 PM Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Well - also in this case: if you used "spreading incorrect information" > instead of "lie" then the point may get better through. > > I have no reason to believe that Wayne deliberately want to > mislead people, troll or in any other way did it with a purpose. I accept those ideas. Thanks. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 3/1/2011 9:44:05 PM On 3/1/2011 4:44 PM, Lew wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Well - also in this case: if you used "spreading incorrect information" >> instead of "lie" then the point may get better through. >> >> I have no reason to believe that Wayne deliberately want to >> mislead people, troll or in any other way did it with a purpose. > > I accept those ideas. Thanks. > I happy to hear this. But if possible I'd like to discuss the setup further. <quote> Private vs. public JRE - Installing the JDK installs a private Java SE Runtime Environment (JRE) and optionally a public copy. The private JRE is required to run the tools included with the JDK. It has no registry settings and is contained entirely in a jre directory (typically at C:\Program Files\jdk1.6.0\jre) whose location is known only to the JDK. On the other hand, the public JRE can be used by other Java applications, is contained outside the JDK (typically at C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0), is registered with the Windows registry (at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft), can be removed using Add/Remove Programs, might or might not be registered with browsers, and might or might not have java.exe copied to the Windows system directory (making it the default system Java platform or not). </quote> This from the JDK 6 installation notes for Windows. But all previous versions of the install notes I've checked had similar comments. To me this makes perfect sense: a private JRE for the use of tools written in Java such as those included in the JDK. One or more public JREs for your code to use and to test your code against. Then even if you update the public JRE, your javac.exe tool will be stable. As was suggested up-thread, downloading new versions of tools every time a new runtime is another possible and reasonable setup, in some cases. Because of this, especially if you do have multiple public JREs (including a newer one than was included with the JDK), or use the default control panel setup which will install new public JREs when available but not new JDKs, I believe the setup I suggested earlier is a reasonable one. But certainly it is not the only possible reasonable setup! I imagine there are many different JDK deployments and configurations in use in the world, and I suspect most of those work just fine for the people who set up those systems their own way. the setup I provided is one that seems to work well for me, but if you prefer a different setup, please use it. It is a good idea for a home hobbyist or student to always install and update the latest JDK with each new release as Lew suggested, and in that case you only need to list the "private" JRE/bin directory on PATH. This is indeed a superset of the executables included in the public JRE (although I can't find where that is guaranteed). This does probably apply to the OP. But it is of course *not* a recommended practice for production systems! It is *not* reasonable to change a production server's JRE, or your development tools on a development system, without testing such software changes won't break your stuff. I have lots of system administration experience and I use this best practice ("change management") even on my home setup even though it is not necessary in my case. (Can you imagine changing compilers 8 months into a release cycle of Eclipse or OpenOffice?) Even critical security patches from MS Windows Update are generally not installed without many weeks or months of testing. (Often software developers don't understand the risks, which is why system administrators hate to give them administrative privilege...they will abuse it to install (untested) updates they want.) While I understand that Lew (and some other smart Java developers who post on this list) believe it is perfectly safe to use JRE version (X+1) DLLs with javac.exe (and other JDK executables) compiled against JRE version X DLLs, I'm not convinced you could know this, even if it were true most of the time. But why worry about it? Just list both JREs, the public one first. When use use java.exe you get the latest one. When you use javac.exe you get the private JRE version. Both tools will use the DLLs from their JRE. What's the problem with this setup? Note that even if I'm completely wrong, there is no harm in have two JRE/bin directories listed on the PATH, is there? If some executable is found in the first one, the second one is ignored and so it is harmless listing it. If you always update the JDK every time you update the JRE, as Lew suggests, then both JREs are the same and it won't matter which version is used. I suppose it is wasteful of disk space (to have two JREs installed), and it does add 38 bytes to PATH to list the automatically installed public JRE/bin too. A lot of newbies and experimenters will probably download the JDK and run it, accepting all the defaults. After the next public JRE release, such users will end up with two different JREs on their system. Professional developers may also have multiple different public JREs installed (to test against), as mentioned above. So after carefully reading all the posts in this thread, I am not yet convinced it is always the best (or the only reasonable) practice is to have just a single JRE. And I'm not convinced it is guaranteed to run version X executables with a version (not X) JRE. If my understandings are incorrect or I've drawn incorrect inferences, please help me understand where (specifically!) I've missed the mark. I really don't have any agenda, I just want to understand. And I really did post the setup originally in an effort to be helpful. Thanks! -- Wayne (Bracing myself for the ensuing flames :-)   0 Wayne 3/2/2011 7:47:12 AM On 03/02/2011 02:47 AM, Wayne wrote: > While I understand that Lew (and some other smart Java developers who post > on this list) believe it is perfectly safe to use JRE version (X+1) DLLs > with javac.exe (and other JDK executables) compiled against JRE version X DLLs, Please do not misrepresent me so egregiously. I never said that, I don't believe it, and it is pretty awful for you to attribute such a statement to me. I would have had responses to your other points, but this matter stops me cold. And just when we had found common ground, too. But there's no point in making statements at all if you're going to attribute complete nonsense to me and disregard what I actually do say. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense.   0 Lew 3/2/2011 12:06:59 PM  Reply: Similar Artilces: Issue with JDK/JRE Environment Setup I installed the jdk and jre here: C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_24\bin and C:\Java\jre6 currently my environment variables are as follows: System Variables, PATH=C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C: \Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;C: \Perl64\site\bin;C:\Perl64\bin;C:\Ruby\bin;%SystemRoot% \system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files (x86)\MySQL\MySQL Server 5.0\bin;%SYSTEMROOT% \System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files \Teleca Shared;C:\PROGRA~2\IBM\CLIENT~1\Shared;C:\Program Files ... 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CNAME setup issue
Hi all, ok, this may be a simple question, but I've racked my brain over it for too long and can't figure it out... I have a DNS server set up to be an authoritative server only. It has the following main configuration parameters : options { directory "/etc/namedb"; recursion no; interface-interval 30; allow-transfer { any; }; dump-file "/var/dump/named_dump.db"; statistics-file "/var/log/named.stats"; query-source address * port 33701; notify no; }; I have a zone file...

packaging JRE with Setup
Hi, I'm investigating the feasibility of using Java Swing for our networked application instead of a web application. I understand WebStart helps alot in this area for ease of deployment, but that requres the user to already have the JRE installed. Do most users already have a JRE installed? Windows, Mac, Linux? Is there a way I can bundle the JRE with my setup program so the user only has to install one thing instead of two? Thanks, -Justin In article <aRpQd.2627\$oh4.101312@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, Justin <ng@maritime333source.ca> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm...

JDK vs JRE
This question have certanly been posted before, but then agin... What I know: JDK (Java Developmet Kit) is the pakage for develop java programs. JRE (Java Runtimme Enviorment) is the pakage to run java programs. But why... does JRE apper in both JDK and standalone when you install the latest jdk-1_5_0_09-nb-5_0-win-ml.exe? and, can you somehow remove the standalone JRE (C:\java\jre1.5.0_09) and redirect everything to the one in JDK (C:\java\jdk1.5.0_09\jre) - they both seam to have the same files...? /Thoms thomas_elmstrom@msn.com wrote: > But why... > does JRE appe...

Authentication issue in JRE
Hi to all, I have a web application that loads a java applet. Users get access to this application using Windows credential in a dedicated Windows domain. Home users enters the application and when the applet starts, it prompts for credentials so loads correctly. From the corporate network however, the applet never prompt for credential so it doesn't work. Looking at web server log files I noticed that the Java Plug-in uses the logged-on user credentials instead of that ones used for the web application. My goal is to force Java Plug-in in order to always prompt for credential al...

Listings environment issue
I'm using the listing environment to format some custom code. I have defined a language but have come up against a strange issue which I have so far been unable to resolve. The issue stems from the following definition of the 'at' symbol: \lstdefinelanguage{MyLanguage}{ otherkeywords={@}, ... } If I now use that definition as follows: \lstset{language=XOCL} \begin{lstlisting} @Class AClass @InnerClass AnInnerClass @Constraint StatesIncludeInitialState end end end \end{lstlisting} It may or may not work. If the definition fits on a page then it wo...