Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k=F6nnen. Programmieren
m=FCssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html

thanks
Bobi

P.S.
I've already tried google and babelfish translate.

Slobodan Blazeski schrieb:
> Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k�nnen. Programmieren
> m�ssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html

We are happy, that the graduates already know Java. We only have
to teach them programming then.

Peter

On Feb 24, 9:27=A0pm, Peter Herth <p.he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Slobodan Blazeski schrieb:
>
> > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k=F6nnen. Programmieren
> > m=FCssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
> >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html
>
> We are happy, that the graduates already know Java. We only have
> to teach them programming then.
>
> Peter

Great. Many thanks

Bobi

Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blazeski@gmail.com> writes:

> Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k��nnen. Programmieren
> m��ssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
> http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html

Roughly:

"We are happy that the graduates already know Java.  But we still need to
teach them programming."


-- 
Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute

On Feb 24, 4:06=C2=A0pm, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
> Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com> writes:
> > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k=C5=BD=C3=B6nnen. Progr=
ammieren
> > m=C5=BD=C3=BCssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
> >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html
>
> Roughly:
>
> "We are happy that the graduates already know Java. =C2=A0But we still ne=
ed to
> teach them programming."
>
> --
> Thomas A. Russ, =C2=A0USC/Information Sciences Institute

A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at
Motorola.  He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew
up on java.  He claimed that they were totally useless, and that they
had to be taught programming all over again.

On Feb 25, 8:44=C2=A0pm, Mirko <mirko.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 4:06=C2=A0pm, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
>
> > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k=C5=BD=C3=B6nnen. Pro=
grammieren
> > > m=C5=BD=C3=BCssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
> > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html
>
> > Roughly:
>
> > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java. =C2=A0But we still =
need to
> > teach them programming."
>
> > --
> > Thomas A. Russ, =C2=A0USC/Information Sciences Institute
>
> A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at
> Motorola. =C2=A0He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew
> up on java. =C2=A0He claimed that they were totally useless, and that the=
y
> had to be taught programming all over again.

The Perils of Java schools http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerils=
ofJavaSchools.html

Bobi

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0800, Slobodan Blazeski wrote:

> On Feb 25, 8:44 pm, Mirko <mirko.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 24, 4:06 pm, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
>>
>> > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com> writes:
>> > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java kŽönnen.
>> > > Programmieren mŽüssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
>> > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html
>>
>> > Roughly:
>>
>> > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java.  But we still
>> > need to teach them programming."
>>
>> > --
>> > Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute
>>
>> A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at
>> Motorola.  He cursed the recent computer science graduates that grew up
>> on java.  He claimed that they were totally useless, and that they had
>> to be taught programming all over again.
> 
> The Perils of Java schools
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html

Regarding that article:

I don't think that C-style pointers are "hard" in the sense that, for
example, advanced mathematics is hard.  Pointers are easy to grasp,
but messy to use.  They just introduce gratuitous complexity.  Why
waste time on them while you can do something useful?  Recursion has
more merit, but it is not a holy grail either, it is just a particular
style of programming, not even practical in all circumstances.

The ingredient I find the most useful in a programming language is the
ability for abstraction, especially syntactic abstraction.  I
seriously doubt that CS courses using Scheme put any emphasis on
macros.  So I guess that those kids are better off learning Java than
doing contorted puzzles in Scheme.

If I had to hire a programmer, I would look for skills in managing
complexity that inevitably arises in large programs, instead of the
ability to fiddle with pointers.

Tamas

On Feb 26, 11:36=C2=A0am, Tamas K Papp <tkp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0800, Slobodan Blazeski wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 8:44=C2=A0pm, Mirko <mirko.vuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 24, 4:06=C2=A0pm, t...@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) wrote:
>
> >> > Slobodan Blazeski <slobodan.blaze...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> > > Wir sind froh, dass die Absolventen schon Java k=C5=BD=C3=B6nnen.
> >> > > Programmieren m=C5=BD=C3=BCssen wir denen halt noch beibringen.
> >> > >http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/programming.html
>
> >> > Roughly:
>
> >> > "We are happy that the graduates already know Java. =C2=A0But we sti=
ll
> >> > need to teach them programming."
>
> >> > --
> >> > Thomas A. Russ, =C2=A0USC/Information Sciences Institute
>
> >> A neighbor of mine, back in Arizona, was a software engineer at
> >> Motorola. =C2=A0He cursed the recent computer science graduates that g=
rew up
> >> on java. =C2=A0He claimed that they were totally useless, and that the=
y had
> >> to be taught programming all over again.
>
> > The Perils of Java schools
> >http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html
>
> Regarding that article:
>
> I don't think that C-style pointers are "hard" in the sense that, for
> example, advanced mathematics is hard. =C2=A0Pointers are easy to grasp,
> but messy to use. =C2=A0They just introduce gratuitous complexity. =C2=A0=
Why
> waste time on them while you can do something useful? =C2=A0Recursion has
> more merit, but it is not a holy grail either, it is just a particular
> style of programming, not even practical in all circumstances.
>
> The ingredient I find the most useful in a programming language is the
> ability for abstraction, especially syntactic abstraction. =C2=A0I
> seriously doubt that CS courses using Scheme put any emphasis on
> macros. =C2=A0So I guess that those kids are better off learning Java tha=
n
> doing contorted puzzles in Scheme.
Depending on the school. Schools in Macedonia should be banned by law
to teach lisp/scheme. As I believe that they're paid by Sun in order
to do the most damage they can by using  recursion for everything,
teaching some scheme in clump with  few other languages in the single
AI course they have. And if that is not bad enough using pen and paper
would make everybody to become a lifetime parenthesis hater.
>
> If I had to hire a programmer, I would look for skills in managing
> complexity that inevitably arises in large programs, instead of the
> ability to fiddle with pointers.
The problem is how would you know that candidate has a skills in
managing complexity? How would you know that he or she has any skills
at all without working with them for at least several weeks. As for me
I really don't know of any other way that works. Recommendations are
bullshit because any sane person will send the good ones and discard
the bad. Asking for history depends a lot of the source, could you
find someone that worked with so and so and even if you find one would
you trust him. Only the code talks and for 99.99% you can't see any of
their code. Not even snippets. There is many coders that could talk
the talk but can't walk the walk. And as for the resumes I can't agree
more with Dave Berry : resume is more than just a piece of paper ...
it is a piece of paper with lies written all over it.

Bobi

 TKP> If I had to hire a programmer, I would look for skills in managing
 TKP> complexity that inevitably arises in large programs, instead of the
 TKP> ability to fiddle with pointers.

Believe me or not, but different programming jobs require different 
programming skill(-sets). There is no such thing as "programming in 
general".

Sometimes you need just the guy who is able to fiddle with pointers.