How do I say these (verbally):

CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
rplaca
rplacd
nconc

??

Lowell

Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> How do I say these (verbally):
> 
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)

"see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the 
latter sounds funny in German.)

> rplaca

"replace-a"

> rplacd

"replace-d"

> nconc

"enn-conc"


Pascal

-- 
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."

In article <cjfa1l$2pn$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de>,
 Pascal Costanza <costanza@web.de> wrote:

> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> > 
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> 
> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the 
> latter sounds funny in German.)

I've also heard both.  The latter tends to be used when it's used as a 
root of a longer word, e.g. CLOSify would be pronounced "kloss-i-fy".

> 
> > rplaca
> 
> "replace-a"

I've always heard ruh-plock-ah

> 
> > rplacd
> 
> "replace-d"

ruh-plock-dee

> 
> > nconc
> 
> "enn-conc"

Right.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Lowell Kirsh wrote:

> How do I say these (verbally):
> 
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> rplaca
> rplacd
> nconc

Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL, ECL
MCL. I won't even try to say Xanalasys.

Chris Capel

is that enn-cons or en-conc ?

>>>nconc
>>
>>"enn-conc"
> 
> 
> Right.
> 

er, i meant en-cons or en-conk ?
                              ^
Lowell

Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> is that enn-cons or en-conc ?
> 
>>>> nconc
>>>
>>>
>>> "enn-conc"
>>
>>
>>
>> Right.
>>

Chris Capel wrote:
> I won't even try to say Xanalasys.

How about Zanalasis ?

en-konk

Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> er, i meant en-cons or en-conk ?
>                              ^
> Lowell
> 
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> 
>> is that enn-cons or en-conc ?
>>
>>>>> nconc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "enn-conc"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right.
>>>

-- 
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."

Chris Capel wrote:

> As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL, ECL
> MCL. I won't even try to say Xanalasys.

It's Xanalys, and I bet it's pronounced Ksanalys (or some such).

-- 
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> 
> Chris Capel wrote:
> 
>> As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL,
>> ECL MCL. I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
> 
> It's Xanalys, and I bet it's pronounced Ksanalys (or some such).
> 

Naah. khanalys, with kh => "ch as in loch"

khhhhaaaaaanalys!

Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> wrote:
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

See Muckle.  :)

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews

"Pascal Costanza" <costanza@web.de> wrote in message
news:cjfa1l$2pn$2@newsreader2.netcologne.de...
>
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>
> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
> latter sounds funny in German.)

Funny. I have always pronounced this as simple see-ell-oh-ess. I do that
with most of the acronyms today.

SQL - ess-kew-ell vs 'sequel'

However, I "pronounce" FAQ as "fak".

Now, where this gets interesting is in things like news posts.

For example: "I need an interface to AN SQL server" vs "I need an interface
to A SQL server", or "Is there a FAQ" vs "Is there an FAQ".

Other than that, pronouce 'em as you like, it's mostly the same here on
USENET anyway :-).

Regards,

Will Hartung
(willh@msoft.com)

In article <cjfkbj$pfl$1@baldur.whoi.edu>, Karl A. Krueger wrote:
>  Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> wrote:
> > Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
>  
>  See Muckle.  :)
>  

Sea mussel?

-- 
Eric Daniel

"Lowell Kirsh" <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message 
news:cjfdme$4fl$1@mughi.cs.ubc.ca...
> Chris Capel wrote:
>> I won't even try to say Xanalasys.
>
> How about Zanalasis ?

The company name is Xanalys, and when they answer the phone, it's pronounced 
like "Zanalis", with the accent on the first syllable.

Jim Bushnell 

Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:

> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> rplaca
> rplacd
> nconc
>
> ??

The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:

  rplaca: [,ree'plakuh] or [,ruh'plakuh]
  
  rplacd: [,ree'plakduh] or [,ruh'plakduh] or [,ree'plakdee] or [,ruh'plakdee]

But no entry for nconc.

Helmut.

Helmut Eller <e9626484@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:

> Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
> 
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> > rplaca
> > rplacd
> > nconc
> >
> > ??
> 
> The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:

And while we're at it, how about CLHS?

If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?

-- 
Duane Rettig    duane@franz.com    Franz Inc.  http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450               http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607        Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182   

> How do I say these (verbally):

I learned Lisp in relative isolation, so my views may not reflect
mainstream usage.  My pronunciations are probably shaped by my Texas
upbringing.

> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)

KLOSS with an "o" as in "boat".  Almost like "close", but with a
voiceless s.

> rplaca

r*-PLAHK-uh (where * is a schwa).

> rplacd

r*-PLAHK-dee or r*-PLAHK-duh; I vary.  I think I use the latter when
I'm concentrating the code (talking to myself), and the former when
I'm thinking about talking (such as when I'm showing somebody else
something).

But more often, I pronounce it "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".

> nconc

EN-kahnk

And, FWIW, I say "DEHF-var" and "dee-FUHN" not "DUH-fun" even though I
say "duh-FINE", "ksanalys", "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not
"Bach" (sorry Europe), "see-lisp", and spell out CMUCL and SBCL.

Cheers,
Piquan

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@piquan.org
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

Duane Rettig wrote:
> Helmut Eller <e9626484@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
> 
>>Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
>>
>>
>>>How do I say these (verbally):
>>>
>>>CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>>rplaca
>>>rplacd
>>>nconc
>>>
>>>??
>>
>>The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:
> 
> And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
> 
> If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?

"Hyperspec" ;)

Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the 
abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must 
say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say 
"world wide web".


Pascal

-- 
Tyler: "How's that working out for you?"
Jack: "Great."
Tyler: "Keep it up, then."

Chris Capel wrote:
> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> 
> 
>>How do I say these (verbally):
>>
>>CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>rplaca
>>rplacd
>>nconc
> 
> 
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

As someone who has never heard it pronounced by
someone else, but uses it verbally all the time:

  kuh-mukel

:)

--
Randall Randall <randall@randallsquared.com>
"And no practical definition of freedom would be complete
  without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it
  is the freedom upon which all the others are based."
  - Terry Pratchett, _Going Postal_

Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:

> How do I say these (verbally):
>
> rplaca
> rplacd

My 0.02:

I've heard all the old timers chime in, and I'm
sure they're right, but I think I'd pronouce
those as REPLACE-CAR and REPLACE-CUD-DER.

And I always think of CMUCL as SEE-MUCK-ULL.

> Naah. khanalys, with kh => "ch as in loch"
>
Yes, I think they manufacture a substitute for Viagra :D

Since I am spanish, I can bring a different perspective:
In my mother tongue the usage is to recur to the second
letter of every word, so CMUCL would end CaMeUnCoLi.
Suggestive?

Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> writes:

> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> 
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> > 
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> > rplaca
> > rplacd
> > nconc
> 
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

When speaking Swedish, I call it "K'hmuhkl", when speaking English I
call it "see em you see ell".

//Ingvar
-- 
When it doesn't work, it's because you did something wrong.
Try to do it the right way, instead.

Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> 
> How do I say these (verbally):

> rplaca

"set-eff-car"   :)

	Paul

Randall Randall <randall@randallsquared.com> writes:

> Chris Capel wrote:
> > Lowell Kirsh wrote:
> >
> >>How do I say these (verbally):
> >>
> >>CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> >>rplaca
> >>rplacd
> >>nconc
> > Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
> 
> As someone who has never heard it pronounced by
> someone else, but uses it verbally all the time:
> 
>   kuh-mukel

That has the "virtue" of (potentially) rhyming with Pumuckl, a popular
cartoon character on German TV.  Better than pronouncing it "comical",
I suppose.

-- 
Rob St. Amant
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~stamant

Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:

> How do I say these (verbally):

I don't know.  I've never heard you speak.

I'll give you my take on it.  (Imagine a New England accent)

> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
I say `see-loss' rather than rhyming it with `cross'.

> rplaca
Rhymes with alpaca. ru-PLACK-a

The `u' is short (almost missing), like the initial syllable in
`rupture' rather than the initial syllable in `Ruprecht' or Ru-Paul.

> rplacd
ru-PLACK-dee

> nconc
en-konk  (equal stress)

> Lowell
Almost rhymes with `roll'.

Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> writes:

> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>
>> How do I say these (verbally):
>> 
>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>> rplaca
>> rplacd
>> nconc
>
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

c'-MUCK-ell

On 2004-09-30 11:20, in article wtybn5pl.fsf@ccs.neu.edu, "Joe Marshall"
<jrm@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:

> Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> writes:
> 
>> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> 
>>> How do I say these (verbally):
>>> 
>>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>> rplaca
>>> rplacd
>>> nconc
>> 
>> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
> 
> c'-MUCK-ell

Since I went to CMU, I call it cee-em-you cee-el

--jon

Alain Picard <Alain.Picard@memetrics.com> writes:

> Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
> 
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> >
> > rplaca
> > rplacd
> 
> My 0.02:
> 
> I've heard all the old timers chime in, and I'm
> sure they're right, but I think I'd pronouce
> those as REPLACE-CAR and REPLACE-CUD-DER.
> 
> And I always think of CMUCL as SEE-MUCK-ULL.

I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?
Or is it not commonly known that C.M.U. is pronounced "See Emm You"?
And when "CL" appears by itself, doesn't everyone just pronounce
the letters "See Ell"?  CMUCL is the "CL" from "CMU"; CMU's CL.
I've never heard it pronounced other than "See Em You See Ell".

Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> wrote in message news:<10lmdvpf802o402@corp.supernews.com>...
> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

CMU has to be spelled out.  But after that...

I play upon my CM ukelele
Begetting Lispy music ever daily.

Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:

> 
> How do I say these (verbally):
> 
> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)

This seems to have a West Coast/East Coast split.

"see-loss" versus "kloss" as pronounciation.
I grew up with kloss.

-- 
Thomas A. Russ,  USC/Information Sciences Institute

cstacy@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
> > And I always think of CMUCL as SEE-MUCK-ULL.
> 
> I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
> forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?
> Or is it not commonly known that C.M.U. is pronounced "See Emm You"?

No. It's pronounced k'mu, like in CMU's Mostly Unix.

> And when "CL" appears by itself, doesn't everyone just pronounce
> the letters "See Ell"?  CMUCL is the "CL" from "CMU"; CMU's CL.
> I've never heard it pronounced other than "See Em You See Ell".

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.

tar@sevak.isi.edu (Thomas A. Russ) writes:

> Lowell Kirsh <lkirsh@cs.ubc.ca> writes:
> 
> > 
> > How do I say these (verbally):
> > 
> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
> 
> This seems to have a West Coast/East Coast split.
> 
> "see-loss" versus "kloss" as pronounciation.
> I grew up with kloss.

Yes -- MIT people at least always said "see loss".

This "loss" pronounciation was not necessarily intended to malign
CLOS, but rather was just the natural way to pronounce it consistent
with our general psychological outlook.  We would have probably
pronounced it "See Lose" if we actually hated it.

Some excerpts from the file "AI:JARGON >" circa 1982:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BAGBITER 1. n. Equipment or program that fails, usually
   intermittently.  2. BAGBITING: adj. Failing hardware or software.
   "This bagbiting system won't let me get out of spacewar."  Usage:
   verges on obscenity.  Grammatically separable; one may speak of
   "biting the bag".  Synonyms: LOSER, LOSING, CRETINOUS, BLETCHEROUS,
   BARFUCIOUS, CHOMPER, CHOMPING.

BARF [from the "layman" slang, meaning "vomit"] 1. interj. Term of
   disgust.  See BLETCH.  2. v. Choke, as on input.  May mean to give
   an error message.  "The function `=' compares two fixnums or two
   flonums, and barfs on anything else."  3. BARFULOUS, BARFUCIOUS:
   adj. Said of something which would make anyone barf, if only for
   aesthetic reasons.

BLETCH [from German "brechen", to vomit (?)] 1. interj. Term of
   disgust.  2. BLETCHEROUS: adj. Disgusting in design or function.
   "This keyboard is bletcherous!"  Usage: slightly comic.

BOGOSITY n. The degree to which something is BOGUS (q.v.).  At CMU,
   bogosity is measured with a bogometer; typical use: in a seminar,
   when a speaker says something bogus, a listener might raise his
   hand and say, "My bogometer just triggered."  The agreed-upon unit
   of bogosity is the microLenat (uL).

BOGUS (WPI, Yale, Stanford) adj. 1. Non-functional.  "Your patches are
   bogus."  2. Useless.  "OPCON is a bogus program."  3. False.  "Your
   arguments are bogus."  4. Incorrect.  "That algorithm is bogus."
   5. Silly.  "Stop writing those bogus sagas."  (This word seems to
   have some, but not all, of the connotations of RANDOM.)
   [Etymological note from Lehman/Reid at CMU:  "Bogus" was originally
   used (in this sense) at Princeton, in the late 60's.  It was used
   not particularly in the CS department, but all over campus.  It
   came to Yale, where one of us (Lehman) was an undergraduate, and
   (we assume) elsewhere through the efforts of Princeton alumni who
   brought the word with them from their alma mater.  In the Yale
   case, the alumnus is Michael Shamos, who was a graduate student at
   Yale and is now a faculty member here.  A glossary of bogus words
   was compiled at Yale when the word was first popularized (e.g.,
   autobogophobia: the fear of becoming bogotified).]

BRAIN-DAMAGED [generalization of "Honeywell Brain Damage" (HBD), a
   theoretical disease invented to explain certain utter cretinisms in
   Multics] adj. Obviously wrong; cretinous; demented.  There is an
   implication that the person responsible must have suffered brain
   damage, because he should have known better.  Calling something
   brain-damaged is really bad; it also implies it is unusable.

BROKEN adj. 1. Not working properly (of programs).  2. Behaving
   strangely; especially (of people), exhibiting extreme depression.

CHOMP v. To lose; to chew on something of which more was bitten off
   than one can.  Probably related to gnashing of teeth.  See
   BAGBITER.  A hand gesture commonly accompanies this, consisting of
   the four fingers held together as if in a mitten or hand puppet,
   and the fingers and thumb open and close rapidly to illustrate a
   biting action.  The gesture alone means CHOMP CHOMP (see Verb
   Doubling).

CRETIN 1. n. Congenital loser (q.v.).  2. CRETINOUS: adj. See
   BLETCHEROUS and BAGBITING.  Usage: somewhat ad hominem.

CROCK [probably from "layman" slang, which in turn may be derived from
   "crock of shit"] n. An awkward feature or programming technique
   that ought to be made cleaner.  Example: Using small integers to
   represent error codes without the program interpreting them to the
   user is a crock.  Also, a technique that works acceptably but which
   is quite prone to failure if disturbed in the least, for example
   depending on the machine opcodes having particular bit patterns so
   that you can use instructions as data words too; a tightly woven,
   almost completely unmodifiable structure.

CRUFTY [from "cruddy"] adj. 1. Poorly built, possibly overly complex.
   "This is standard old crufty DEC software".  Hence CRUFT, n. shoddy
   construction.  Also CRUFT, v. [from hand cruft, pun on hand craft]
   to write assembler code for something normally (and better) done by
   a compiler.  2. Unpleasant, especially to the touch, often with
   encrusted junk.  Like spilled coffee smeared with peanut butter and
   catsup.  Hence CRUFT, n. disgusting mess.  3. Generally unpleasant.
   CRUFTY or CRUFTIE n. A small crufty object (see FROB); often one
   which doesn't fit well into the scheme of things.  "A LISP property
   list is a good place to store crufties (or, random cruft)."
   [Note:  Does CRUFT have anything to do with the Cruft Lab at
   Harvard?  I don't know, though I was a Harvard student. - GLS]

DEMENTED adj. Yet another term of disgust used to describe a program.
   The connotation in this case is that the program works as designed,
   but the design is bad.  For example, a program that generates large
   numbers of meaningless error messages implying it is on the point
   of imminent collapse.

FEATURE n. 1. A surprising property of a program.  Occasionally docu-
   mented.  To call a property a feature sometimes means the author of
   the program did not consider the particular case, and the program
   makes an unexpected, although not strictly speaking an incorrect
   response.  See BUG.  "That's not a bug, that's a feature!"  A bug
   can be changed to a feature by documenting it.  2. A well-known and
   beloved property; a facility.  Sometimes features are planned, but
   are called crocks by others.  An approximately correct spectrum:

   (These terms are all used to describe programs or portions thereof,
   except for the first two, which are included for completeness.)
	CRASH  STOPPAGE  BUG  SCREW  LOSS  MISFEATURE
		CROCK  KLUGE  HACK  WIN  FEATURE  PERFECTION
   (The last is never actually attained.)

FLAKEY adj. Subject to frequent lossages.  See LOSSAGE.

FLAME v. To speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively
   uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude.
   FLAME ON: v. To continue to flame.  See RAVE.  This punning
   reference to Marvel comics' Human Torch has been lost as
   recent usage completes the circle:  "Flame on" now usually
   means "beginning of flame".

FOO 1. [from Yiddish "feh" or the Anglo-Saxon "fooey!"] interj. Term
   of disgust.  2. [from FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition),
   from WWII, often seen as FOOBAR] Name used for temporary programs,
   or samples of three-letter names.  Other similar words are BAR, BAZ
   (Stanford corruption of BAR), and rarely RAG.  These have been used
   in Pogo as well.  3. Used very generally as a sample name for
   absolutely anything.  The old `Smokey Stover' comic strips often
   included the word FOO, in particular on license plates of cars.
   MOBY FOO: See MOBY.

FROB 1. n. (MIT) The official Tech Model Railroad Club definition is
   "FROB = protruding arm or trunnion", and by metaphoric extension
   any somewhat small thing.  See FROBNITZ.  2. v. Abbreviated form of
   FROBNICATE.

FROBNICATE v. To manipulate or adjust, to tweak.  Derived from
   FROBNITZ (q.v.).  Usually abbreviated to FROB.  Thus one has the
   saying "to frob a frob".  See TWEAK and TWIDDLE.  Usage: FROB,
   TWIDDLE, and TWEAK sometimes connote points along a continuum.
   FROB connotes aimless manipulation; TWIDDLE connotes gross
   manipulation, often a coarse search for a proper setting; TWEAK
   connotes fine-tuning.  If someone is turning a knob on an
   oscilloscope, then if he's carefully adjusting it he is probably
   tweaking it; if he is just turning it but looking at the screen he
   is probably twiddling it; but if he's just doing it because turning
   a knob is fun, he's frobbing it.

FROBNITZ, pl. FROBNITZEM (frob'nitsm) n. An unspecified physical
   object, a widget.  Also refers to electronic black boxes.  This
   rare form is usually abbreviated to FROTZ, or more commonly to
   FROB.  Also used are FROBNULE, FROBULE, and FROBNODULE.  Starting
   perhaps in 1979, FROBBOZ (fruh-bahz'), pl. FROBBOTZIM, has also
   become very popular, largely due to its exposure via the Adventure
   spin-off called Zork (Dungeon).  These can also be applied to
   non-physical objects, such as data structures.

FROG (variant: PHROG) 1. interj. Term of disgust (we seem to have a
   lot of them).  2. Used as a name for just about anything.  See FOO.
   3. n. Of things, a crock.  Of people, somewhere inbetween a turkey
   and a toad.  4. Jake Brown (FRG@SAIL).  5. FROGGY: adj. Similar to
   BAGBITING (q.v.), but milder.  "This froggy program is taking
   forever to run!"

FROTZ 1. n. See FROBNITZ.  2. MUMBLE FROTZ: An interjection of very
   mild disgust.

GLORK 1. interj. Term of mild surprise, usually tinged with outrage,
   as when one attempts to save the results of two hours of editing
   and finds that the system has just crashed.  2. Used as a name for
   just about anything.  See FOO.  3. v. Similar to GLITCH (q.v.), but
   usually used reflexively.  "My program just glorked itself."

GLITCH [from the Yiddish "glitshen", to slide] 1. n. A sudden
   interruption in electric service, sanity, or program function.
   Sometimes recoverable.  2. v. To commit a glitch.  See GRITCH.
   3. v. (Stanford) To scroll a display screen.

GRITCH 1. n. A complaint (often caused by a GLITCH (q.v.)).  2. v. To
   complain.  Often verb-doubled: "Gritch gritch".  3. Glitch.

GRUNGY adj. Incredibly dirty or grubby.  Anything which has been
   washed within the last year is not really grungy.  Also used
   metaphorically; hence some programs (especially crocks) can be
   described as grungy.

GUBBISH [a portmanteau of "garbage" and "rubbish"?] n. Garbage; crap;
   nonsense.  "What is all this gubbish?"

HACK n. 1. Originally a quick job that produces what is needed, but
   not well.  2. The result of that job.  3. NEAT HACK: A clever
   technique.  Also, a brilliant practical joke, where neatness is
   correlated with cleverness, harmlessness, and surprise value.
   Example: the Caltech Rose Bowl card display switch circa 1961.
   4. REAL HACK: A crock (occasionally affectionate).
   v. 5. With "together", to throw something together so it will work.
   6. To bear emotionally or physically.  "I can't hack this heat!" 7.
   To work on something (typically a program).  In specific sense:
   "What are you doing?"  "I'm hacking TECO."  In general sense: "What
   do you do around here?"  "I hack TECO."  (The former is
   time-immediate, the latter time-extended.)  More generally, "I hack
   x" is roughly equivalent to "x is my bag".  "I hack solid-state
   physics."  8. To pull a prank on.  See definition 3 and HACKER (def
   #6).  9. v.i. To waste time (as opposed to TOOL).  "Watcha up to?"
   "Oh, just hacking."  10. HACK UP (ON): To hack, but generally
   implies that the result is meanings 1-2.  11. HACK VALUE: Term used
   as the reason or motivation for expending effort toward a seemingly
   useless goal, the point being that the accomplished goal is a hack.
   For example, MacLISP has code to read and print roman numerals,
   which was installed purely for hack value.
   HAPPY HACKING: A farewell.  HOW'S HACKING?: A friendly greeting
   among hackers.  HACK HACK: A somewhat pointless but friendly
   comment, often used as a temporary farewell.
   [The word HACK doesn't really have 69 different meanings.  In fact,
   HACK has only one meaning, an extremely subtle and profound one 
   which defies articulation.  Which connotation a given HACK-token 
   has depends in similarly profound ways on the context.  Similar 
   comments apply to a couple other hacker jargon items, most notably 
   RANDOM. - Agre]

HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A
   person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and
   how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who
   prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.  2. One who programs
   enthusiastically, or who enjoys programming rather than just
   theorizing about programming.  3. A person capable of appreciating
   hack value (q.v.).  4. A person who is good at programming quickly.
   Not everything a hacker produces is a hack.  5. An expert at a
   particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on
   it; example: "A SAIL hacker".  (Definitions 1 to 5 are correlated,
   and people who fit them congregate.)  6. A malicious or inquisitive
   meddler who tries to discover information by poking around.  Hence
   "password hacker", "network hacker".

HACKISH adj. Being or involving a hack.  HACKISHNESS n.

HAIRY adj. 1. Overly complicated.  "DWIM is incredibly hairy."  2.
   Incomprehensible.  "DWIM is incredibly hairy."  3.  Of people,
   high-powered, authoritative, rare, expert, and/or incomprehensible.
   Hard to explain except in context: "He knows this hairy lawyer who
   says there's nothing to worry about."

KLUGE (kloodj) alt. KLUDGE [from the German "kluge", clever] n. 1. A
   Rube Goldberg device in hardware or software.  2. A clever
   programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an
   efficient, if not clear, manner.  Often used to repair bugs.  Often
   verges on being a crock.  3. Something that works for the wrong
   reason.  4. v. To insert a kluge into a program.  "I've kluged this
   routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably a better
   way."  Also KLUGE UP.  5. KLUGE AROUND: To avoid by inserting a
   kluge.  6. (WPI) A feature which is implemented in a RUDE manner.

LOSE [from MIT jargon] v. 1. To fail.  A program loses when it
   encounters an exceptional condition.  2. To be exceptionally
   unaesthetic.  3. Of people, to be obnoxious or unusually stupid (as
   opposed to ignorant).  4. DESERVE TO LOSE: v. Said of someone who
   willfully does the wrong thing; humorously, if one uses a feature
   known to be marginal.  What is meant is that one deserves the
   consequences of one's losing actions.  "Boy, anyone who tries to
   use MULTICS deserves to lose!"
   LOSE LOSE - a reply or comment on a situation.

LOSER n. An unexpectedly bad situation, program, programmer, or
   person.  Especially "real loser".

LOSS n. Something which loses.  WHAT A (MOBY) LOSS!: interjection.

LOSSAGE n. The result of a bug or malfunction.

MISFEATURE n. A feature which eventually screws someone, possibly
   because it is not adequate for a new situation which has evolved.
   It is not the same as a bug because fixing it involves a gross
   philosophical change to the structure of the system involved.
   Often a former feature becomes a misfeature because a tradeoff was
   made whose parameters subsequently changed (possibly only in the
   judgment of the implementors).  "Well, yeah, it's kind of a
   misfeature that file names are limited to six characters, but we're
   stuck with it for now."

MUNG (variant: MUNGE) [recursive acronym for Mung Until No Good] v. 1.
   To make changes to a file, often large-scale, usually irrevocable.
   Occasionally accidental.  See BLT.  2. To destroy, usually
   accidentally, occasionally maliciously.  The system only mungs
   things maliciously.

RANDOM adj. 1. Unpredictable (closest to mathematical definition);
   weird.  "The system's been behaving pretty randomly."  2. Assorted;
   undistinguished.  "Who was at the conference?"  "Just a bunch of
   random business types."  3.  Frivolous; unproductive; undirected
   (pejorative).  "He's just a random loser."  4. Incoherent or
   inelegant; not well organized.  "The program has a random set of
   misfeatures."  "That's a random name for that function."  "Well,
   all the names were chosen pretty randomly."  5. Gratuitously wrong,
   i.e., poorly done and for no good apparent reason.  For example, a
   program that handles file name defaulting in a particularly useless
   way, or a routine that could easily have been coded using only
   three ac's, but randomly uses seven for assorted non-overlapping
   purposes, so that no one else can invoke it without first saving
   four extra ac's.  6. In no particular order, though deterministic.
   "The I/O channels are in a pool, and when a file is opened one is
   chosen randomly."  n. 7. A random hacker; used particularly of high
   school students who soak up computer time and generally get in the
   way.  8. (occasional MIT usage) One who lives at Random Hall.
   J. RANDOM is often prefixed to a noun to make a "name" out of it
   (by comparison to common names such as "J. Fred Muggs").  The most
   common uses are "J. Random Loser" and "J. Random Nurd" ("Should
   J. Random Loser be allowed to gun down other people?"), but it
   can be used just as an elaborate version of RANDOM in any sense.
   [See also the note at the end of the entry for HACK.]

RANDOMNESS n. An unexplainable misfeature; gratuitous inelegance.
   Also, a hack or crock which depends on a complex combination
   of coincidences (or rather, the combination upon which the
   crock depends).  "This hack can output characters 40-57 by
   putting the character in the accumulator field of an XCT and
   then extracting 6 bits -- the low two bits of the XCT opcode
   are the right thing."  "What randomness!"

SPAZZ 1. v. To behave spastically or erratically; more often, to
   commit a single gross error.  "Boy, is he spazzing!"  2. n. One who
   spazzes.  "Boy, what a spazz!"  3. n. The result of spazzing.
   "Boy, what a spazz!"

STOPPAGE n. Extreme lossage (see LOSSAGE) resulting in something
   (usually vital) becoming completely unusable.

WIN [from MIT jargon] 1. v. To succeed.  A program wins if no
   unexpected conditions arise.  2. BIG WIN: n. Serendipity.
   Emphatic forms: MOBY WIN, SUPER WIN, HYPER-WIN (often used
   interjectively as a reply).  For some reason SUITABLE WIN is also
   common at MIT, usually in reference to a satisfactory solution to a
   problem.  See LOSE.

WINNAGE n. The situation when a lossage is corrected, or when
   something is winning.  Quite rare.  Usage: also quite rare.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Duane Rettig <duane@franz.com> wrote:
> Helmut Eller <e9626484@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
> And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
> If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?

Clues?

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews

Pascal Costanza wrote:

> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the =

> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must =

> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say=20
> "world wide web".

I saw someone suggesting "hexa-v".

--=20
Jens Axel S=F8gaard

cstacy@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:

> I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
> forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?

That's the wonderful thing about language---apparently the users,
not the designers, get to choose how they use it.  :-)

In article <BD81AB45.37BBE%ipmonger@comcast.net>,
 Jon Boone <ipmonger@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 2004-09-30 11:20, in article wtybn5pl.fsf@ccs.neu.edu, "Joe Marshall"
> <jrm@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Chris Capel <ch.ris@iba.nktech.net> writes:
> >> 
> >> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?
> > 
> > c'-MUCK-ell
> 
> Since I went to CMU, I call it cee-em-you cee-el
> 
> --jon

Ditto.  Although a classmate of mine who never had
much luck with the ladies and grew more and more bitter
during his four years in Pittsburgh would probably say:

"Call Me Ugly, See Ell"

Alain Picard <Alain.Picard@memetrics.com> writes:

> cstacy@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
> 
> > I'm amazed that there's any question of how to pronounce it; have people
> > forgotten that it's the Lisp written at Carnegie-Mellon University?
> 
> That's the wonderful thing about language---apparently the users,
> not the designers, get to choose how they use it.  :-)

I'm referring to how most "users" of the word have used it since the
mid-1980s; I am speculating that the people who are pronouncing it
differently (mispronouncing it, I would say) are "foreigners" -- they
from some culture that is not aware of a university called "C.M.U.".
Such "foreigners" could be from the United States or anywhere; it's
probably not an English language issue (although I am not sure how
people elsewhere refer to "C.M.U.").  My point is that computer
technology is infinitely more ubiquitous than it was a quarter 
centry ago, when C.M.U. was one of a relatively few places 
in the world where computer technology came from.

Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@piquan.org> writes:

> [...]
> But more often, I pronounce [rplacd] "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".

  (But only when the return value is ignored, I presume.)

> [...]
> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)


  Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.


  Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
  pronunciation.  Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
  pronounce CDADDR...

  ---Vassil.

-- 
Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com>

HOLLERITH's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.

Vassil Nikolov wrote:

> 
>   Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
>   pronunciation.

 

AFAIK ANSI Forth actually did go to the trouble to specify the 
pronunciation (or englishoid representation, anyway)
of each forth word that was not a direct english word:
 
http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpansf.htm

eg.
F~  => f-proximate
SFALIGN  => s-f-align
['] => bracket-tick

Pascal Costanza wrote:

>
> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> "world wide web".
> 

Actually strikes me that at this stage that I might actually
write "worldwideweb.blah.com" if someone were to say to me
 "world wide web dot blah dot com"...

I'm just sorry that the 90s campaign to convince everyone to switch
to web.blah.com didn't catch on. Though these days, blah.com usually
goes to the web page anyway.

Will Hartung <willh@msoft.com> wrote:
> "Pascal Costanza" <costanza@web.de> wrote in message
>> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> > How do I say these (verbally):
>> >
>> > CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>>
>> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
>> latter sounds funny in German.)
> 
> Funny. I have always pronounced this as simple see-ell-oh-ess. I do that
> with most of the acronyms today.
> 
> SQL - ess-kew-ell vs 'sequel'

Archaically, "SEQUEL" was a database language that -preceded- SQL.

The PostgreSQL project insists on "Postgres-Q-L".  People who say
"Post-Greh-Sequel" are -trying- to lose.

And "My-Sequel" sounds like "the follow-on to the book I wrote",
not a database server.

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews

Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com> wrote:
> Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@piquan.org> writes:
>  Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
>  pronunciation.  Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
>  pronounce CDADDR...

Coulda' deader.

-- 
Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger@example.edu>
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Email address is spamtrapped.  s/example/whoi/
"Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews

>> But more often, I pronounce [rplacd] "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".
> (But only when the return value is ignored, I presume.)

Good point.

>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.

What's the Hungarian pronunciation?

> Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
> pronunciation.

Y'know, now that I think about it, rms had a typist for a while when
he was having severe wrist problems.  Maybe he has some opinions on
pronunciation.  (He's got 'em on most everything else, so why not.)

> Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to pronounce
> CDADDR...

Me, I say "k*d-AH-d*-d*r", sounds similar to "cadaver".

joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@piquan.org
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> "world wide web".

I once heard a guy at LISA say "dub-dub-dub".  I've used it since, and
found that everybody I've dealt with understands it just fine.

joelh

-- 
Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@piquan.org
   Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@piquan.org> writes:

> > Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the
> > abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must
> > say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say
> > "world wide web".
> 
> I once heard a guy at LISA say "dub-dub-dub".  I've used it since, and
> found that everybody I've dealt with understands it just fine.

I say "wuh wuh wuh".

-- 
Gareth McCaughan
..sig under construc

Pascal Costanza <costanza@web.de> writes:

> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> How do I say these (verbally):
>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)
>
> "see-loss" and "kloss" are both ok. (I prefer the former because the
> latter sounds funny in German.)

We actually use "kloss" at work. It is quite unfunny. No one had the
idea to call it "Klo�" till now. ;)

Regards,
-- 
                    ____________________________
 Julian Stecklina  /  _________________________/
  ________________/  /
  \_________________/  LISP - truly beautiful

Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@piquan.org> writes:

> >> But more often, I pronounce [rplacd] "SEHT-eff KUH-d*r".
> > (But only when the return value is ignored, I presume.)
> 
> Good point.
> 
> >> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> > Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
> 
> What's the Hungarian pronunciation?

Franz-corp with-preposition an-artile "a"-letter like-adverb
in-preposition "man"-noun not-adverb "Bach"-noun.


-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.

Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@piquan.org> writes:

> [...]
>>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
>> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
>
> What's the Hungarian pronunciation?

  Why, FEH-rentz, of course.

  ---Vassil.

-- 
Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com>

Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.

Vassil Nikolov wrote:

> >>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> >> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
> >
> > What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
> 
>   Why, FEH-rentz, of course.

I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?

-- 
Gareth McCaughan
..sig under construc

"Karl A. Krueger" <kkrueger@example.edu> writes:

> The PostgreSQL project insists on "Postgres-Q-L".  People who say
> "Post-Greh-Sequel" are -trying- to lose.

post-gres-kwul, though most people I know pronounce it "postgres"

> And "My-Sequel" sounds like "the follow-on to the book I wrote",
> not a database server.

mice-kwul


-dan

-- 
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"

Gareth McCaughan <gareth.mccaughan@pobox.com> writes:

> Vassil Nikolov wrote:
>
>> >>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
>> >> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
>> >
>> > What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
>> 
>>   Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
>
> I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?

  It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
  pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.

  (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
  pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
  "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
  as "s", when these occur at the end of a word.  I hope a Hungarian
  speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)

  ---Vassil.

-- 
Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com>

Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.

Vassil Nikolov wrote:
>   (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
>   pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
>   "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
>   as "s", when these occur at the end of a word.  I hope a Hungarian
>   speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)

though not hungarian, i'm pretty sure it is:

s - as sh
c - as ts
z - as z
sz - as s
cs - as ch
zs - voiced sh (as su in pleasure)

-- 
Joost Kremers                                      joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com> writes:

> >>   Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
> >
> > I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
> 
>   It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
>   pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant "I always thought the name
pronounced FEH-rentz was spelt Ferenc not Franz." I've
never seen Liszt's first name spelt any other way than "Franz".
(Correction: I just did, when checking a few facts against
Wikipedia.)

As I understand it, Liszt left Hungary rather young
and never even learned to speak Hungarian fluently.
So I suspect the German pronunciation is nearer the
mark than the Hungarian pronunciation of "Ferenc",
even if he was called Ferenc before he was called Franz. :-)

-- 
Gareth McCaughan
..sig under construc

Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com> writes:

> Gareth McCaughan <gareth.mccaughan@pobox.com> writes:
> 
> > Vassil Nikolov wrote:
> >
> >> >>> "Franz" with an "a" like in "man" not "Bach" (sorry Europe)
> >> >> Well, both are about equally far from the Hungarian pronunciation.
> >> >
> >> > What's the Hungarian pronunciation?
> >> 
> >>   Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
> >
> > I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
> 
>   It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
>   pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.

These days it's spelt "Ferenc", but the pronunciation you gave is
correct.  

> 
>   (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
>   pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
>   "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
>   as "s", when these occur at the end of a word.  I hope a Hungarian
>   speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)

Not quite: both "c" and "cz" are pronounced "tz" (though "cz" is not
really used anymore), and "sz" is pronounced "s", wherever it is. See
Joost's followup for the complete picture.

Andras

Andras Simon <asimon@math.bme.hu> writes:

> Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com> writes:
> [...]
>>   (No, I don't speak Hungarian, but I believe the following
>>   pronunciation rules apply: "c" pronounced as the "ch" in "chap",
>>   "cz" pronouned as "tz", "s" pronounced as "sh", and "sz" pronounced
>>   as "s", when these occur at the end of a word.  I hope a Hungarian
>>   speaker will set me straight if that is not correct.)
>
> Not quite: both "c" and "cz" are pronounced "tz" (though "cz" is not
> really used anymore), and "sz" is pronounced "s", wherever it is. See
> Joost's followup for the complete picture.

  I stand corrected and enlightened, thank you and Joost.

  ---Vassil.


-- 
Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com>

Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.

Gareth McCaughan <gareth.mccaughan@pobox.com> writes:

> Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com> writes:
>
>> >>   Why, FEH-rentz, of course.
>> >
>> > I always thought that was spelt "Ferenc". Am I confused?
>> 
>>   It is spelled "Ferencz", but I am not sure that conveys the
>>   pronunciation well enough, while I consider "tz" unambiguous.
>
> Sorry, I was unclear. I meant "I always thought the name
> pronounced FEH-rentz was spelt Ferenc not Franz." I've
> never seen Liszt's first name spelt any other way than "Franz".
> (Correction: I just did, when checking a few facts against
> Wikipedia.)

  I see, sorry about misunderstanding you.  My experience has been
  rather the opposite, having seen the name spelled mostly in (a
  Cyrillic transliteration of) the Hungarian way (and having picked up
  an old spelling, as I have just learned).

> As I understand it, Liszt left Hungary rather young
> and never even learned to speak Hungarian fluently.
> So I suspect the German pronunciation is nearer the
> mark than the Hungarian pronunciation of "Ferenc",
> even if he was called Ferenc before he was called Franz. :-)

  Yes, that may be a better way of looking at it (much like the widely
  adopted pronunciation of "Chopin" being the French one, though I
  don't know if they use the latter even in Poland).

  ---Vassil.

-- 
Vassil Nikolov <vnikolov@poboxes.com>

Hollerith's Law of Docstrings: Everything can be summarized in 72 bytes.

In article <lz655vhvo3.fsf@janus.vassil.nikolov.names>, Vassil Nikolov
<vnikolov@poboxes.com> wrote:

>   Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
>   pronunciation.  Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
>   pronounce CDADDR...

I would never try to pronounce that (I'd shoot myself for writing that
first), but I was rather surprised and amused to hear Dan Friedman (of
Little Lisper lore) pronounce one of those manglings in class. I think
he would say kuh-DAH-di-dir.

-- 
Brian Mastenbrook
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/

Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger@example.edu> wrote:
+---------------
| The PostgreSQL project insists on "Postgres-Q-L".
| People who say "Post-Greh-Sequel" are -trying- to lose.
+---------------

Perhaps, but I usually find myself saying "post-gres-kwell".  ;-}  ;-}


-Rob

-----
Rob Warnock			<rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue			<URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403		(650)572-2607

Karl A. Krueger <kkrueger@example.edu> wrote:
+---------------
| Duane Rettig <duane@franz.com> wrote:
| > Helmut Eller <e9626484@stud3.tuwien.ac.at> writes:
| > And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
| > If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?
| 
| Clues?
+---------------

Nah, too confusing with CLUE.


-Rob

-----
Rob Warnock			<rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue			<URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403		(650)572-2607

cstacy@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:

> I'm referring to how most "users" of the word have used it since the
> mid-1980s; I am speculating that the people who are pronouncing it
> differently (mispronouncing it, I would say) are "foreigners" -- they
> from some culture that is not aware of a university called "C.M.U.".

Interesting speculation; in my case, however, I'm quite aware
of the meaning and name (and even of some of the historical importance)
of the Carnegie Mellon University.

But I agree that there must definitely be a component of the
"mispronouncing" due to schism in the community; i.e. when it gets
large enough that large pockets of the group have no direct contact
with initiates which already have one favoured pronunciation, it
leaves room for divergent usages to flourish.

BTW, I leared that mispronounciation from someone who did his
computer work at M.I.T., which I would assume is near enough
(psychologically and historically) to CMU that I speculate that
the initial pronunciation may be becoming archaic.


[p.s. sorry for late reply; just back from holiday]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:30:20 -0500, Chris Capel wrote:

> Lowell Kirsh wrote:
>> How do I say these (verbally):
>> 
>> CLOS (is it 'see-loss'?)

kloss

>> rplaca

ar-plak-'ay

>> rplacd

ar-plak-'dee

>> nconc

'en-konk

> Any votes for CMUCL? How about kuhmoosl, or k'moosl? Maybse smusl?

see-em-you-see-ell

[But it'd be k'mookl, or k'muhkl, not k'moosl, if I was going to try
to pronounce it as a word...which I'm not :-)]

> As for the others, I say See-lisp, and just spell out ABCL, SBCL, GCL, ECL
> MCL.

Same.

>      I won't even try to say Xanalasys.

It's "Xanalys", not "Xanalasys"; I pronounce it "'zanaliss" (but
presumably there is actually a correct pronunciation for this one --
how do people who work there pronounce it?)

-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

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On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:36:39 +0200, Pascal Costanza wrote:

>>> The CLHS includes the pronunciation for the funnier names:
>> And while we're at it, how about CLHS?
>> If CLOS is sie-loss or kloss, is CLHS sea-luhss or kluhss?

see-ell-aitch-ess

> "Hyperspec" ;)

Yeah, or that :-)

> Sometimes, the non-abbreviated version is easier to pronounce than the 
> abbreviation. I always find it very amusing when English speakers must 
> say "double-u double-u double-u" when you could, in fact, just say 
> "world wide web".

I do, when it's an abbreviation (talking about the WWW) -- or more
often just "web" -- but as a literal (part of an address), I say
"double-ew double-ew double-ew" (or occasionally "hex-you")

And I don't pronounce the punctuation -- I read "http://foo.com" as
"aitch-tee-tee-pee foo com".  Sounds strange when people start saying
"slash", "dot", etc.  [Until relatively recently, when everyone
starting talking that way, I always associated pronouncing the
punctuation with clueless newbies]

But most people in NZ seem to say "dub dub dub" (which annoys the hell
out of me every time I hear it)

-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

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On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 01:09:00 -0400, Vassil Nikolov wrote:

>   Lisp programmers not only know the value of everything, but also its
>   pronunciation.  Now, what I have always been afraid to ask is how to
>   pronounce CDADDR...

I don't pronounce CAR and friends as words, so that's easy: see-dee-ay-...


-- 
Malum est consilium quod mutari non potest             -- Publilius Syrus

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