This is important enough to break out into its own thread.
Actually, this is spiritually part of the larger "modern perl"
movement. Specifically, the obsolete idea of enforcing certain ideas
or rules must end. If the perl community is to thrive than this dated
idea of "posting guidelines" should be officially shunned by this group.
There is an ongoing and long standing attempt to modernize the level of
discourse in perl irc channels. The same must be done here.
The "posting guidelines" should be no longer autoposted and deemed
not to be in the spirit of this group. The idea that one must adhere to
"posting guidelines" is born of an early academic snobbery that has
been long since evolved not only in most every other active usenet
group but also almost every other online discussion forum on the
internet.
Let's discuss this like adults....


On 4/28/11 3:02 PM, John Bokma wrote:
 > J�rgen Exner<jurgenex@hotmail.com>  writes:
 >
 >> John Bokma<john@castleamber.com>  wrote:
 >>> J�rgen Exner<jurgenex@hotmail.com>  writes:
 >>>
 >>>> The world is welcome to use Twitter and Facebook
 >>>
 >>> Oh, my, please stop this elitist behavior. Personally I think Stack
 >>> Overflow (in my case) has superseded Usenet for many of the instances I
 >>> used to use Usenet usually. And Facebook has superseded some other uses
 >>> I had for Usenet.
 >>>
 >>> Each new thing has its place. Looking down on it all makes you an
 >>> elitist dinosaur ready to be fossilized.
 >>
 >> And I don't have any problems with that.
 >
 > OK, maybe my bad, but I read it not like that.
 >
 >> I don't ask the world to like the cosy coffee shop around the corner.
 >> But I do have a major problem with people busting in and demanding:
 >> "This is a great place, but the world has moved on and you should change
 >> this into a Hard Rock Cafe."
 >
 > Why? They might have a point. I understand this is about the posting
 > guidelines (despite the OPs choice of wording in the subject). And maybe
 > the OP has a point: why keep posting those? Times have changed; back in
 > the 90's when I had access to Usenet it took me quite some time to post
 > my first message; I was somewhat anxious about this new thing, and first
 > took my time to learn the "rules".
 >
 > This (in general) changed somewhere in the late 90's: people just barged
 > in on Usenet, and didn't care about guidelines. And endless pointless
 > discussions resulted in how to post, etc. And a majority of newbies (in
 > my experience) became pissed off with the (not only in their opinion)
 > elitist attitude causing some to become full time trolls for years.
 >
 > Now it seems to get more quiet on Usenet, at least in most of the groups
 > I still follow. Newbies still barge in, but less often, and still don't
 > give a big F about posting guidelines. In a way it reminds me of the "No
 > tira basura" signs I see a lot here in Mexico: there is very often a
 > huge pile of garbage next to the sign.
 >
 >> Don't you think I would be able to find a Hard Rock Cafe if I wanted to
 >> visit one?
 >
 > I am not clairvoyant, so no idea. I have no idea where to find one where
 > I live, maybe there isn't one?
 >
 > Anyway, just because it can't be posted, and has been posted for years
 > doesn't mean it has to be kept posted.
 >

Jon Du Kim <jondk@FAKE.EMAIL.net> writes:

> Let's discuss this like adults....

If you'll post like an adult, sure.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Blog: http://johnbokma.com/    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/j.j.j.bokma
    Freelance Perl & Python Development: http://castleamber.com/

Jon Du Kim wrote:

> Specifically, the obsolete idea of enforcing certain ideas
> or rules must end. 

So enforcing of ideas has to stop - except your ideas, of course. Did I get 
that right?

Ekki

>Jon Du Kim wrote:
>
>> Specifically, the obsolete idea of enforcing certain ideas
>> or rules must end. 

You mean ideas and rules like offering your seat in the bus to an elder
lady or not parking in a handicaped parking spot or not yakking away on
your cell phone in a movie theater? There was a time when courtesy and
manners went without saying and were valued as the grease that kept
society moving smoothly. 
Same applies to Usenet and basic manners in Newsgroups. If you behave
poorly you get a little slap on your fingers. If you keep on behaving
like you grew up in the gutter you will be ostracized. The posting
guidelines are merely an offer or a helping hand to anyone to avoid that
from happening. 

jue

Here is a good example:
When my grandparents were children it was common to rub bourbon on the gums
of a teething baby. Today, of course, one does not provide a crying baby
this treatment.
"Posting Guideleines" are as antiquated as the bourbon treatment. A curious
relic of a by-gone time.
> You mean ideas and rules like offering your seat in the bus to an elder
> lady or not parking in a handicaped parking spot or not yakking away on
> your cell phone in a movie theater? There was a time when courtesy and
> manners went without saying and were valued as the grease that kept
> society moving smoothly.
> Same applies to Usenet and basic manners in Newsgroups. If you behave
> poorly you get a little slap on your fingers. If you keep on behaving
> like you grew up in the gutter you will be ostracized. The posting
> guidelines are merely an offer or a helping hand to anyone to avoid that
> from happening.

Jon Du Kim <jondk@FAKE.EMAIL.net> writes:

> Let's discuss this like adults....

First you rant about throwing out the posting guidelines, now you want
to follow them.

Make up your mind!

sherm--

-- 
Sherm Pendley
                                   <http://camelbones.sourceforge.net>
Cocoa Developer

On 04-28-2011 21:31, Jon Du Kim wrote:
> movement. Specifically, the obsolete idea of enforcing certain ideas
> or rules must end. If the perl community is to thrive than this dated
> idea of "posting guidelines" should be officially shunned by this group.

My few experiences with this group suggest that what is shunned
is Larry Wall's advice, i.e.,

    There ain't nothin' in this world worth being a snot about.

-- 
Wes Groleau

   There are two types of people in the world …
   http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1157