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Announcement: New PL/I kit for Alpha

A new kit is now available for download from our website,
which includes a complete rebuild of the GEM interface.

This fixes a cute bug.  When compiling with /SHOW=STATISTICS
the compile speed is computed in lines per minute.  Time is measured
in in units of a hundredth of a millisecond,  which turned out to be
zero for a small program on an ES47.  When this code was originally written
in 1978 for the VAX I guess it was never thought that computers would get
that fast!

Tom
0
tom284 (1839)
9/5/2005 4:05:42 PM
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Tom Linden wrote:

> A new kit is now available for download from our website,
> which includes a complete rebuild of the GEM interface.

> This fixes a cute bug.  When compiling with /SHOW=STATISTICS
> the compile speed is computed in lines per minute.  Time is measured
> in in units of a hundredth of a millisecond,  which turned out to be
> zero for a small program on an ES47.  When this code was originally written
> in 1978 for the VAX I guess it was never thought that computers would get
> that fast!

The Hercules group working on S/370 emulators has found places
where OS designers didn't expect computers to be that fast.
One is in VM/370 where a tight loops is expected to take some number
of clock ticks.  When zero ticks occur during the loop a zerodivide
occurs.

There were also bugs found when Linux/390 didn't work right if
I/O operations were too fast.  That is, the I/O interrupt happens
immediately after the instruction starting the operation.

-- glen

0
gah (12851)
9/7/2005 5:16:26 AM
glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Tom Linden wrote:
> 
>> A new kit is now available for download from our website,
>> which includes a complete rebuild of the GEM interface.
> 
> 
>> This fixes a cute bug.  When compiling with /SHOW=STATISTICS
>> the compile speed is computed in lines per minute.  Time is measured
>> in in units of a hundredth of a millisecond,  which turned out to be
>> zero for a small program on an ES47.  When this code was originally 
>> written
>> in 1978 for the VAX I guess it was never thought that computers would get
>> that fast!
> 
> 
> The Hercules group working on S/370 emulators has found places
> where OS designers didn't expect computers to be that fast.
> One is in VM/370 where a tight loops is expected to take some number
> of clock ticks.  When zero ticks occur during the loop a zerodivide
> occurs.

On actual S/370 hardware, by definition, every instruction takes at 
least one clock tick. If the instructions go too fast, either the clock 
has to have a higher resolution (or at least append incrementing garbage 
bits below the last true ticking bit) or the instruction processor has 
to slow down.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
A proud member of the reality-based community.
0
jwkenne (1442)
9/8/2005 3:02:44 AM
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:02:44 -0400, John W. Kennedy  
<jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:

> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>> Tom Linden wrote:
>>
>>> A new kit is now available for download from our website,
>>> which includes a complete rebuild of the GEM interface.
>>
>>> This fixes a cute bug.  When compiling with /SHOW=STATISTICS
>>> the compile speed is computed in lines per minute.  Time is measured
>>> in in units of a hundredth of a millisecond,  which turned out to be
>>> zero for a small program on an ES47.  When this code was originally  
>>> written
>>> in 1978 for the VAX I guess it was never thought that computers would  
>>> get
>>> that fast!
>>   The Hercules group working on S/370 emulators has found places
>> where OS designers didn't expect computers to be that fast.
>> One is in VM/370 where a tight loops is expected to take some number
>> of clock ticks.  When zero ticks occur during the loop a zerodivide
>> occurs.
>
> On actual S/370 hardware, by definition, every instruction takes at  
> least one clock tick. If the instructions go too fast, either the clock  
> has to have a higher resolution (or at least append incrementing garbage  
> bits below the last true ticking bit) or the instruction processor has  
> to slow down.

The issue is not the resolution of the clock but the manner and resolution
that was chosen in the program reporting the statistics.

0
tom284 (1839)
9/8/2005 2:11:52 PM
Tom Linden wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:02:44 -0400, John W. Kennedy  
> <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Linden wrote:
>>>
>>>> A new kit is now available for download from our website,
>>>> which includes a complete rebuild of the GEM interface.
>>>
>>>
>>>> This fixes a cute bug.  When compiling with /SHOW=STATISTICS
>>>> the compile speed is computed in lines per minute.  Time is measured
>>>> in in units of a hundredth of a millisecond,  which turned out to be
>>>> zero for a small program on an ES47.  When this code was originally  
>>>> written
>>>> in 1978 for the VAX I guess it was never thought that computers 
>>>> would  get
>>>> that fast!
>>>
>>>   The Hercules group working on S/370 emulators has found places
>>> where OS designers didn't expect computers to be that fast.
>>> One is in VM/370 where a tight loops is expected to take some number
>>> of clock ticks.  When zero ticks occur during the loop a zerodivide
>>> occurs.
>>
>>
>> On actual S/370 hardware, by definition, every instruction takes at  
>> least one clock tick. If the instructions go too fast, either the 
>> clock  has to have a higher resolution (or at least append 
>> incrementing garbage  bits below the last true ticking bit) or the 
>> instruction processor has  to slow down.
> 
> 
> The issue is not the resolution of the clock but the manner and resolution
> that was chosen in the program reporting the statistics.

I say again, the S/370 Principles of Operation /defines/ the clock as 
being faster than the instruction processor, by whatever means necessary 
-- i.e., unless the clock is reset, it must never store the same result 
twice. It is impossible, on 370 hardware, for "zero ticks [to] occur 
during the loop".
-- 
John W. Kennedy
"Never try to take over the international economy based on a radical 
feminist agenda if you're not sure your leader isn't a transvestite."
   -- David Misch:  "She-Spies", "While You Were Out"
0
jwkenne (1442)
9/8/2005 3:05:23 PM
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:05:23 -0400, John W. Kennedy  
<jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:

>   The issue is not the resolution of the clock but the manner and  
> resolution
> that was chosen in the program reporting the statistics.
>  I say again, the S/370 Principles of Operation /defines/ the clock as  
> being faster than the instruction processor, by whatever means necessary  
> -- i.e., unless the clock is reset, it must never store the same result  
> twice. It is impossible, on 370 hardware, for "zero ticks [to] occur  
> during the loop".

John, you are not paying attention.  If you store two time values in short
integers, they could report the same value; and hence, there difference
would be 0.  BTW, this has nothing to do with 370, this was on an Alpha,
but originally ran on a VAX, and still does, but the same would obviously
apply to 370, or any computer for that matter.
0
tom284 (1839)
9/8/2005 4:13:40 PM
John W. Kennedy wrote:
(snip)

> I say again, the S/370 Principles of Operation /defines/ the clock as 
> being faster than the instruction processor, by whatever means necessary 
> -- i.e., unless the clock is reset, it must never store the same result 
> twice. It is impossible, on 370 hardware, for "zero ticks [to] occur 
> during the loop".

I would have to check, it might have been the interval timer.
That runs at 300, 60, or 50 Hz and can easily have zero ticks
for a long loop.

I remember when I thought BCT R,* was an infinite loop, and it isn't
anymore.  That is, when the execution time was longer than the MTBF
of the machine.  (Or at least longer than the maximum job time.)

-- glen

0
gah (12851)
9/8/2005 5:15:32 PM
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:00:04 -0400, John W. Kennedy  
<jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:

> Then that's not "zero ticks", is it?
>  If you don't say what you mean, expect to be misunderstood.
>
Better yet, John, would be for you to read my original post:

This fixes a cute bug.  When compiling with /SHOW=STATISTICS
the compile speed is computed in lines per minute.  Time is measured
in in units of a hundredth of a millisecond,  which turned out to be
zero for a small program on an ES47.  When this code was originally written
in 1978 for the VAX I guess it was never thought that computers would get
that fast!

0
tom284 (1839)
9/8/2005 8:59:32 PM
Tom Linden wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:05:23 -0400, John W. Kennedy  
> <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>>   The issue is not the resolution of the clock but the manner and  
>> resolution
>> that was chosen in the program reporting the statistics.
>>  I say again, the S/370 Principles of Operation /defines/ the clock 
>> as  being faster than the instruction processor, by whatever means 
>> necessary  -- i.e., unless the clock is reset, it must never store the 
>> same result  twice. It is impossible, on 370 hardware, for "zero ticks 
>> [to] occur  during the loop".
> 
> 
> John, you are not paying attention.  If you store two time values in short
> integers, they could report the same value; and hence, there difference
> would be 0.

Then that's not "zero ticks", is it?

If you don't say what you mean, expect to be misunderstood.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see why 
it was her."
   -- "Alias"
0
jwkenne (1442)
9/8/2005 9:00:04 PM
Tom Linden wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:05:23 -0400, John W. Kennedy  
> <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>>   The issue is not the resolution of the clock but the manner and  
>> resolution
>> that was chosen in the program reporting the statistics.
>>  I say again, the S/370 Principles of Operation /defines/ the clock 
>> as  being faster than the instruction processor, by whatever means 
>> necessary  -- i.e., unless the clock is reset, it must never store the 
>> same result  twice. It is impossible, on 370 hardware, for "zero ticks 
>> [to] occur  during the loop".
> 
> 
> John, you are not paying attention.  If you store two time values in short
> integers, they could report the same value; and hence, there difference
> would be 0.  BTW, this has nothing to do with 370, this was on an Alpha,
> but originally ran on a VAX, and still does, but the same would obviously
> apply to 370, or any computer for that matter.

"Zero ticks occurred" and "ticks occurred, but they were discarded" are 
not the same thing.

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only the 
obeisance of others!  Thus is bad government born!  Hold in your heart 
that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good government 
shall arise of its own accord!  Such is the path of virtue!"
   -- Kazuo Koike.  "Lone Wolf and Cub:  Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis)
0
jwkenne (1442)
9/8/2005 9:03:32 PM
glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> John W. Kennedy wrote:
> (snip)
> 
>> I say again, the S/370 Principles of Operation /defines/ the clock as 
>> being faster than the instruction processor, by whatever means 
>> necessary -- i.e., unless the clock is reset, it must never store the 
>> same result twice. It is impossible, on 370 hardware, for "zero ticks 
>> [to] occur during the loop".
> 
> 
> I would have to check, it might have been the interval timer.
> That runs at 300, 60, or 50 Hz

Or 76800 Hz.

> and can easily have zero ticks
> for a long loop.

Yes, that could cause the failure described.

(A beta version of OS/VS1 2.0 crashed with a zero divide in the nucleus 
every day at midnight, GMT, because one programmer had forgotten, but 
another programmer had remembered, that 1900 was not a leap year.)

-- 
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have 
always objected to being governed at all."
   -- G. K. Chesterton.  "The Man Who Was Thursday"
0
jwkenne (1442)
9/8/2005 9:07:39 PM
John W. Kennedy wrote in message ...

>(A beta version of OS/VS1 2.0 crashed with a zero divide in the nucleus
>every day at midnight, GMT, because one programmer had forgotten, but
>another programmer had remembered, that 1900 was not a leap year.)

Nothing learned from the Titanic, then ?

>--
>John W. Kennedy


0
robin_v (2737)
9/10/2005 12:47:15 AM
Reply:

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The first installment of the tincat mewsings blog has been posted. It should be a good read and is guaranteed raise an eyebrow for some, although this group of readers will not find it surprising. It tried to be accurate and also clear when an opinion is being expressed. See http://www.tincat-group.com/mewsings Leave a comment or drop me a personal e-mail to dwolt at tincat-group dot com to let me know what you think. There might be millions of blogs out there, but this is quite a new undertaking for me, so I appreciate anyone taking the time to read it. Cheers! --dawn d...

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Iowegian's dspGuru site (http://www.dspguru.com) recently completed its tenth year of helping people worldwide learn Digital Signal Processing. This is to announce that dspGuru has been completely revamped. Throughout its life, dspGuru was implemented as static HTML pages but now it is hosted on a full-featured content management system (CMS). The new hosting platform has a much better look and allows a lot more possibilites than before. For example, it has a system of user accounts which allows registered users to rate content and add comments. Selected users may also blog. (C...

New product announcement
For the Apple fan that has everything... http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/icopulate.shtml Well, almost everything. -- Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR) "Making it hard to do stupid things often makes it hard to do smart ones too." -- Andrew Koenig "Randy Howard" <randyhoward@FOOverizonBAR.net> stated in post MPG.1cb7f23fff8c3d1a98a283@news.verizon.net on 4/1/05 11:05 PM: > > For the Apple fan that has everything... > > http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/icopulate.shtml > > Well, almost everything. Reminds me of the ol' iBrator http://www.goatee.org/ibrator/ And I see it has been updated... oh my: http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/ibrator.html -- I am one of only .3% of people who have avoided becoming a statistic. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account In article <BE738715.F202%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>, SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID says... > > http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/ibrator.html Too funny. :-) ...

announcing a new journal
Hello, I am really happy to let you know that the "Internation Journal of Digital Typography" is now accepting submissions. IJDT is a new peer-reviewed e-journal that aims to provide a forum for the publication of original results in the area of digital typography (i.e., electronic document preparation, on-screen reading, data representation, etc.). The journal's Web page is located at http://www.bepress.com/ijdt. Kind regards, Apostolos Syropoulos Co-Editor-in=Chief "Apostolos" <ijdt.editor@gmail.com> writes: > I am really happy to let you know that the "Internation Journal of > Digital Typography" is now accepting submissions. IJDT is a new > peer-reviewed e-journal that aims to provide a forum for the > publication of original results in the area of digital typography > (i.e., electronic document preparation, on-screen reading, data > representation, etc.). The journal's Web page is located at > http://www.bepress.com/ijdt. I'd like to subscribe to something that had a Hall of Shame where each issue the editors mercilessly ridiculed a particular academic press that has published books typeset in Microsoft Word with eyesore results. I'd even recommend Slavica as the first entry. Christopher Culver *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** i'm not implying anything, but two of the editorial board me...

ENTERPRISE PL/I ANNOUNCED
The availability of the IBM Enterprise PL/I compiler for z/OS V3R6 has just been announced. ...

New OS Announcement
OpenSoresBSOD: a new OS resulting from a cross between a Squirrle & Can Opener On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 17:43:47 -0500, "Ibrahim Al-Qassam \(Abdelaziz\)" <IranWillRuleWorld@alibaba.ir> wrote: >OpenSoresBSOD: a new OS resulting from a cross between a Squirrle & Can >Opener High Plains Thumper = George Hostler= Wendy Toiletwater = HPT is probably looking for pictures of naked squirrels as we speak! -- Moshe Goldfarb Collector of soaps from around the globe. Linux...Disappointing users for 19 years. Linux::It's free when your time has no value...

New Solaris announcement
Oracle usually makes announcements on the OOW, this one is no exception: http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/1859224 However, this announcement did surprise me. It says the following: "Improve Oracle Real Application Clusters lock latency by 17% by offloading lock management into the Oracle Solaris kernel." So, RAC lock management is now moved to OS? How smart is to use other platforms for RAC? In particular, what about Linux OS? If Solaris is getting preferential treatment, as is visible from the following statement, how smart it is to use Oracle on Linux? How committed is Oracle Corp. to the Linux OS? “Oracle Solaris 11 is the best UNIX operating system to run Oracle applications, deploy mission critical cloud infrastructure and protect customer investments,” said John Fowler, executive vice president, Systems, Oracle. OK. What about Oracle Linux? Is it at least a good choice? Solaris 11 is obviously the best choice, but will Linux still remain at least a good choice? -- Mladen Gogala The Oracle Whisperer http://mgogala.byethost5.com On Oct 4, 9:15=A0pm, Mladen Gogala <gogala.mla...@gmail.com> wrote: > Oracle usually makes announcements on the OOW, this one is no exception: > > http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/1859224 > > However, this announcement did surprise me. It says the following: > > =A0"Improve Oracle Real Application Clusters lock latency by 17% by >...

announce: hugepad.pl
Hello all I posted on www.perlmonks.com a perl/Tk script, hugepad.pl. hugepad is a viewer for huge text files, where huge is up to 500 MB (to me). Perlmonk named zentara suggested that I mention it to this group "so the mainstream perlTk crowd can look at ( and enjoy) it". So be it. You can find the post as perlmonks node [id://446298], or just searching the site for "hugepad". Comments and criticism will be welcome. If possible, please add your reply to the perlmonks "hugepad" thread, as Anonymous Monk or otherwise. Rudif ...

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