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Dolphin Smalltalk X6 Application starts very slowly

Hi.

I'm new in Dolphin Smalltalk X6, not in Smalltalk.
When I start the application by clicking the generated image after 
installation, it takes 30 seconds or 1 minute to start on my P4/3.4GHz 
laptop with 1Gb Ram under Windows XP Pro with all security patches. 
During startup, my mouse moves by steps and not fluently... Processors 
are near 100% of power consumption.
I've tried the same image on my fix PC (512Mb/P4 3Ghz) and then it 
starts very fast.
After startup, Dolphin runs normally on the two configuration.
Any idea?

Thanks a lot.

Eric.
0
informagicien
12/5/2006 8:02:28 PM
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"informagicien" <eric@hqi.be> wrote in message 
news:el4j8b$1mr$1@news.brutele.be...
> Hi.
>
> I'm new in Dolphin Smalltalk X6, not in Smalltalk.
> When I start the application by clicking the generated image after 
> installation, it takes 30 seconds or 1 minute to start on my P4/3.4GHz 
> laptop with 1Gb Ram under Windows XP Pro with all security patches. During 
> startup, my mouse moves by steps and not fluently... Processors are near 
> 100% of power consumption.
....

Try running it while monitoring the debug stream to see what it may be 
doing.  You can download DebugView here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/debugview.mspx

Chris 


0
Christopher
12/6/2006 4:48:07 AM
informagicien wrote:

> I'm new in Dolphin Smalltalk X6, not in Smalltalk.
> When I start the application by clicking the generated image after
> installation, it takes 30 seconds or 1 minute to start on my P4/3.4GHz
> laptop with 1Gb Ram under Windows XP Pro with all security patches.

Puzzling...

If you have any virus checkers, or similar scanners, then it might be worth
disabling those for a quick test.

Also it might be worthwhile looking at the task manager "Processes" tab during
the delay to see which process is using the CPU (I can't remember whether the
CPU usage column is enabled by default, you may have to add it).

Also a couple of questions: Does the delay happen before or after the splash
screen appears ?  And, is the CPU consumed credited to the kernel (red-line in
Task Manager) or user code (green line) ?

    -- chris


0
Chris
12/6/2006 3:02:54 PM
Chris,

> Also a couple of questions: Does the delay happen before or after the splash
> screen appears ?  And, is the CPU consumed credited to the kernel (red-line in
> Task Manager) or user code (green line) ?

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  However, in typical Redmond 
style, well, have you ever heard of red/green color blindness?  If 
you're going to pick two colors, red and green are the worst possible 
choice.

Have a good one,

Bill


-- 
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
bills@anest4.anest.ufl.edu
0
Bill
12/6/2006 4:44:03 PM
Bill,

[me:]

> > kernel (red-line in Task Manager) or user code (green line) ?
>
> Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  However, in typical Redmond
> style, well, have you ever heard of red/green color blindness?

Yup; another problem is that the colours are (for many cultures) wrong -- a
red/green distinction usually indicates wrong/error/don't vs. right/ok/do.

But, in this specific case, there is an inherent disambiguation -- the red line
is always lower than the green ;-)  (I described it badly, the red line is
kernel time, the green is total time, not just user time).


> If
> you're going to pick two colors, red and green are the worst possible
> choice.

I've never found a source of good, simple, advice about colours.  There's a lot
of information about various kinds of colour-blindness on the Web, but nothing
I have yet found makes any recommendations.  Ideally, I'd like to see something
like

    If you need two contrasting colours use <x, y> or <a, b> or..
    If you need three use  <x, y, z> or <a, b, c> or..
    If you need N use <algorithm>

where the advice was based on at least:

    there are various kinds of colour blindness
    they occur with differing frequencies
    most people have normal colour perception
    the 256-colour limit no longer exists

Ideally the advice would allow me to balance the trade-off implied by the third
point (in some apps I might weight aesthetics for the majority high, in others
I might want to give higher weight to minimising any chance of confusion).

Maybe Windows should have logical colours ("warning", "error", "ok") and
colour-sets ("2 high impact / hi contrast colours", "3 high impact / high
contrast colours", "2 low impact / reasonable contrast colours"...), which
would be part of the user's preferences.

    -- chris


0
Chris
12/7/2006 12:48:40 PM
Chris Uppal a �crit :
> informagicien wrote:
> 
>> I'm new in Dolphin Smalltalk X6, not in Smalltalk.
>> When I start the application by clicking the generated image after
>> installation, it takes 30 seconds or 1 minute to start on my P4/3.4GHz
>> laptop with 1Gb Ram under Windows XP Pro with all security patches.
> 
> Puzzling...
> 
> If you have any virus checkers, or similar scanners, then it might be worth
> disabling those for a quick test.
> 
> Also it might be worthwhile looking at the task manager "Processes" tab during
> the delay to see which process is using the CPU (I can't remember whether the
> CPU usage column is enabled by default, you may have to add it).
> 
> Also a couple of questions: Does the delay happen before or after the splash
> screen appears ?  And, is the CPU consumed credited to the kernel (red-line in
> Task Manager) or user code (green line) ?
> 
>     -- chris
> 
> 

Chris,

The process who consumes the most power of CPU when this problem happen 
is "dolphin.exe". Task manager indicates near 46% of power consumption. 
My processor is a P4HT and I view it like 2 processors. Twos are 
occupied near 46%.

I've a virus checker (Avast AntiVirus) but when I stop it, the same 
problem persists.

The delay happen from the start of execution, during the splash screen 
until the application is fully started.
The CPU consumed credited to the user code, not the kernel.

Thanks a lot.

Eric.
0
informagicien
12/8/2006 9:34:39 PM
Christopher J. Demers a �crit :
> "informagicien" <eric@hqi.be> wrote in message 
> news:el4j8b$1mr$1@news.brutele.be...
>> Hi.
>>
>> I'm new in Dolphin Smalltalk X6, not in Smalltalk.
>> When I start the application by clicking the generated image after 
>> installation, it takes 30 seconds or 1 minute to start on my P4/3.4GHz 
>> laptop with 1Gb Ram under Windows XP Pro with all security patches. During 
>> startup, my mouse moves by steps and not fluently... Processors are near 
>> 100% of power consumption.
> ...
> 
> Try running it while monitoring the debug stream to see what it may be 
> doing.  You can download DebugView here:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/debugview.mspx
> 
> Chris 
> 
> 

Here's is a copy of the capture made by DebugView when Dolphin starts 
until it is fully started:

--GetMcast: 6401a8c0 861527b8
[3552] Loading image 'd:\Mesdocs\Dolphin Smalltalk X6\Eric.img
[3552]  done (Succeeded), binstreams time=63mS
--GetMcast: 6401a8c0 861527b8

All seems normal. ?

Note that Dolphin takes 10 to 30 seconds to fully start. (view from the 
user).

Eric.
0
informagicien
12/8/2006 9:48:04 PM
informagicien wrote:

> The process who consumes the most power of CPU when this problem happen
> is "dolphin.exe". Task manager indicates near 46% of power consumption.
> My processor is a P4HT and I view it like 2 processors. Twos are
> occupied near 46%.
>
> I've a virus checker (Avast AntiVirus) but when I stop it, the same
> problem persists.
>
> The delay happen from the start of execution, during the splash screen
> until the application is fully started.
> The CPU consumed credited to the user code, not the kernel.

That's all very odd; and I'm afraid I can't come up with any sensible
explanation.  The fact that it affects both "processors" (when Dolphin is
essentially single-threaded), and that it happens /after/ Dolphin's startup
sequence has normally gone idle (waiting for the splash screen to close), both
suggest that it's something external to Dolphin (but which has added itself to
the Dolphin Windows Process).   It would probably be possible to emulate the
effect by messing around with custom Smalltalk code which ran during startup
but you say that this is a clean image, and that the /same/ image has no
problem on a different machine -- so that's out :-(

A couple of very long shots.  What do the following evaluate to ?
    MemoryManager current gcInterval.
    InputState classPool at: 'SamplingInterval'.
They are speed dependent, but on my (1.5GHz) machine they are 15k and about 32K
respectively.

I imagine that you've already tried re-installing Dolphin from scratch.  It
/might/ just be interesting to try installing an earlier version (D5) and see
if that suffers from the same problem (or perhaps, suffers from a different but
more informative problem).

All I can suggest, otherwise, is that you try to eliminate (temporarily)
anything "odd" about that machine.  For instance, try turning off
hyper-threading (I have no idea how easy that is to do); try (if you aren't
already) running as a user with "Administration" privileges; try (if you aren't
already) running the image from a file on your local machine (not off the LAN).
If you have multiple monitor software, then you could try turning that off (if
you dare).  And so on.

    -- chris


0
Chris
12/11/2006 6:17:26 PM
Chris Uppal a �crit :
> informagicien wrote:
> 
>> The process who consumes the most power of CPU when this problem happen
>> is "dolphin.exe". Task manager indicates near 46% of power consumption.
>> My processor is a P4HT and I view it like 2 processors. Twos are
>> occupied near 46%.
>>
>> I've a virus checker (Avast AntiVirus) but when I stop it, the same
>> problem persists.
>>
>> The delay happen from the start of execution, during the splash screen
>> until the application is fully started.
>> The CPU consumed credited to the user code, not the kernel.
> 
> That's all very odd; and I'm afraid I can't come up with any sensible
> explanation.  The fact that it affects both "processors" (when Dolphin is
> essentially single-threaded), and that it happens /after/ Dolphin's startup
> sequence has normally gone idle (waiting for the splash screen to close), both
> suggest that it's something external to Dolphin (but which has added itself to
> the Dolphin Windows Process).   It would probably be possible to emulate the
> effect by messing around with custom Smalltalk code which ran during startup
> but you say that this is a clean image, and that the /same/ image has no
> problem on a different machine -- so that's out :-(
> 
> A couple of very long shots.  What do the following evaluate to ?

>     MemoryManager current gcInterval.

Inspect this give 15000.

>     InputState classPool at: 'SamplingInterval'.

Inspect this give 983040 (so far from 32000).

> They are speed dependent, but on my (1.5GHz) machine they are 15k and about 32K
> respectively.
> 
> I imagine that you've already tried re-installing Dolphin from scratch.  It
> /might/ just be interesting to try installing an earlier version (D5) and see
> if that suffers from the same problem (or perhaps, suffers from a different but
> more informative problem).
> 
> All I can suggest, otherwise, is that you try to eliminate (temporarily)
> anything "odd" about that machine.  For instance, try turning off
> hyper-threading (I have no idea how easy that is to do);

I search on the web for a "tutorial" to know how turn off 
multithreading, but I've no possibilities to do so until I reinstall the 
OS (oops).

  try (if you aren't
> already) running as a user with "Administration" privileges; 

I'm administrator on this machine

try (if you aren't
> already) running the image from a file on your local machine (not off the LAN).

It's a local image.

> If you have multiple monitor software, then you could try turning that off (if
> you dare).  And so on.
> 
>     -- chris
> 
> 
I've also tried to adjust affinity of the Dolphin.exe process to 1 
processor only but I've seen no changes.
I stopped all services that I can without crash my system, ... no changes.
The unique interesting clue that I see is that SamplingInterval so far 
from yours.
Thanks Chris for your help.

Eric.

0
informagicien
12/12/2006 10:06:52 PM
Chris Uppal a �crit :
 > informagicien wrote:
 >
 >> The process who consumes the most power of CPU when this problem happen
 >> is "dolphin.exe". Task manager indicates near 46% of power consumption.
 >> My processor is a P4HT and I view it like 2 processors. Twos are
 >> occupied near 46%.
 >>
 >> I've a virus checker (Avast AntiVirus) but when I stop it, the same
 >> problem persists.
 >>
 >> The delay happen from the start of execution, during the splash screen
 >> until the application is fully started.
 >> The CPU consumed credited to the user code, not the kernel.
 >
 > That's all very odd; and I'm afraid I can't come up with any sensible
 > explanation.  The fact that it affects both "processors" (when Dolphin is
 > essentially single-threaded), and that it happens /after/ Dolphin's 
startup
 > sequence has normally gone idle (waiting for the splash screen to 
close), both
 > suggest that it's something external to Dolphin (but which has added 
itself to
 > the Dolphin Windows Process).   It would probably be possible to 
emulate the
 > effect by messing around with custom Smalltalk code which ran during 
startup
 > but you say that this is a clean image, and that the /same/ image has no
 > problem on a different machine -- so that's out :-(
 >
 > A couple of very long shots.  What do the following evaluate to ?

 >     MemoryManager current gcInterval.

Inspect this give 15000.

 >     InputState classPool at: 'SamplingInterval'.

Inspect this give 983040 (so far from 32000).

 > They are speed dependent, but on my (1.5GHz) machine they are 15k and 
about 32K
 > respectively.
 >
 > I imagine that you've already tried re-installing Dolphin from 
scratch.  It
 > /might/ just be interesting to try installing an earlier version (D5) 
and see
 > if that suffers from the same problem (or perhaps, suffers from a 
different but
 > more informative problem).
 >
 > All I can suggest, otherwise, is that you try to eliminate (temporarily)
 > anything "odd" about that machine.  For instance, try turning off
 > hyper-threading (I have no idea how easy that is to do);

I search on the web for a "tutorial" to know how turn off 
multithreading, but I've no possibilities to do so until I reinstall the 
OS (oops).

  try (if you aren't
 > already) running as a user with "Administration" privileges;

I'm administrator on this machine

try (if you aren't
 > already) running the image from a file on your local machine (not off 
the LAN).

It's a local image.

 > If you have multiple monitor software, then you could try turning 
that off (if
 > you dare).  And so on.
 >
 >     -- chris
 >
 >
I've also tried to adjust affinity of the Dolphin.exe process to 1 
processor only but I've seen no changes.
I stopped all services that I can without crash my system, ... no changes.
The unique interesting clue that I see is that SamplingInterval so far 
from yours.
Thanks Chris for your help.

Eric.
0
informagicien
12/18/2006 6:59:01 PM
informagicien a �crit :
> Hi.
> 
> I'm new in Dolphin Smalltalk X6, not in Smalltalk.
> When I start the application by clicking the generated image after 
> installation, it takes 30 seconds or 1 minute to start on my P4/3.4GHz 
> laptop with 1Gb Ram under Windows XP Pro with all security patches. 
> During startup, my mouse moves by steps and not fluently... Processors 
> are near 100% of power consumption.
> I've tried the same image on my fix PC (512Mb/P4 3Ghz) and then it 
> starts very fast.
> After startup, Dolphin runs normally on the two configuration.
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Eric.

After a week of searching a reason to solve this problem with helps of 
Chris Uppal (thanks a lot, Chris), the only thing I can do is disabling 
the splash screen apparition by turning to false the 
"showSplashAtStartup" option in User Preferences under item 1 
(Development System). This solve the delay during startup and then, 
Dolphin starts up in 5 to 10 seconds, so far more acceptable then before.

Anyway, loading the Development System background seems to cause also a 
short delay during startup.
Is there anyone who knows how to disable this background (bitmap 
backgrounds are funny but add no functionality to application, so it can 
be forgotten, no?).

Eric.
0
informagicien
12/19/2006 10:46:56 PM
Hi Eric,

> >     InputState classPool at: 'SamplingInterval'.
>
> Inspect this give 983040 (so far from 32000).

FWIW: I also get 983040 on my machine.

> (Development System). This solve the delay during startup and then,
> Dolphin starts up in 5 to 10 seconds, so far more acceptable then before.

If you click on the "Help" menu then "About Dolphin Smalltalk", does
the splash show normally? It should finish fading in 2 seconds.

> Is there anyone who knows how to disable this background (bitmap
> backgrounds are funny but add no functionality to application, so it can
> be forgotten, no?).

I don't think there is an option to do this, but you could try
modifying SmalltalkSystemShell>>setListViewWatermark.

Both the splash and the watermark use OLEPicture to load jpegs. Do you
get the delay when evaluating:

(OLEPicture fromFile: 'Resources/Dolphin0.jpg' usingLocator:
FileLocator installRelative) handle.

FWIW: [(OLEPicture fromFile: 'Resources/Dolphin0.jpg' usingLocator:
FileLocator installRelative) handle] millisecondsToRepeat: 10.
answers 275 on my machine.

Steve
--
swaring@ozemail.com.au

0
Steve
12/19/2006 11:06:28 PM
"informagicien" <eric@hqi.be> wrote in message 
news:em9q4k$90a$1@news.brutele.be...
> After a week of searching a reason to solve this problem with helps of 
> Chris Uppal (thanks a lot, Chris), the only thing I can do is disabling 
> the splash screen apparition by turning to false the "showSplashAtStartup" 
> option in User Preferences under item 1 (Development System). This solve 
> the delay during startup and then, Dolphin starts up in 5 to 10 seconds, 
> so far more acceptable then before.
>
> Anyway, loading the Development System background seems to cause also a 
> short delay during startup.
> Is there anyone who knows how to disable this background (bitmap 
> backgrounds are funny but add no functionality to application, so it can 
> be forgotten, no?).

I am not sure about D6, but I know with D5 opening it on a Celeron based 
system (originally intended to be a small server, so not really designed to 
be a workstation) the splash screen would be quite slow.  It was much slower 
than on my normal development system.  I always felt (anecdotally) like it 
was the graphic fade that slowed it down on that computer, like perhaps the 
graphics card or driver was just really slow with the alpha blend fade.  I 
believe the bitmap background in the system window is also faded, you might 
see if your system is slow with fades.  If so you might see if there are any 
known issues with your graphics card or driver in that regard.

Chris 


0
Christopher
12/20/2006 12:42:58 AM
Eric,

> "informagicien" <eric@hqi.be> wrote in message
> news:em9q4k$90a$1@news.brutele.be...
> > After a week of searching a reason to solve this problem with helps
> > of  Chris Uppal (thanks a lot, Chris), the only thing I can do is
> > disabling  the splash screen apparition by turning to false the
> > "showSplashAtStartup"  option in User Preferences under item 1
> > (Development System). This solve  the delay during startup and
> > then, Dolphin starts up in 5 to 10 seconds,  so far more acceptable
> > then before.
> > 
> > Anyway, loading the Development System background seems to cause
> > also a  short delay during startup.  Is there anyone who knows how
> > to disable this background (bitmap  backgrounds are funny but add
> > no functionality to application, so it can  be forgotten, no?).
> 
> I am not sure about D6, but I know with D5 opening it on a Celeron
> based system (originally intended to be a small server, so not really
> designed to be a workstation) the splash screen would be quite slow.
> It was much slower than on my normal development system.  I always
> felt (anecdotally) like it was the graphic fade that slowed it down
> on that computer, like perhaps the graphics card or driver was just
> really slow with the alpha blend fade.  I believe the bitmap
> background in the system window is also faded, you might see if your
> system is slow with fades.  If so you might see if there are any
> known issues with your graphics card or driver in that regard.

I think Chris is right, it is most likely the alpha blending that is
very slow on your machine so disabling the splash screen would be the
right approach. Does that machine have a particularly old graphics
adapter compared to the other? Also what is your computer's colour
depth set to.. ideally it should be 24 or 32bit.

-- 
Best regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
www.object-arts.com
0
Andy
12/20/2006 11:57:36 AM
Andy,

If you recall, I had a problem with a bit depth of 24.  The background
of an icon didn't render properly.  It would seem that there is a
power-of-two problem.  At 16 or 32 bits, the icons render properly.

Cheers,

Eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Bower [mailto:bower@object-arts.com]
> Posted At: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:58 AM
> Posted To: comp.lang.smalltalk.dolphin
> Conversation: Dolphin Smalltalk X6 Application starts very slowly
> Subject: Re: Dolphin Smalltalk X6 Application starts very slowly
> 
> Eric,
> 
> > "informagicien" <eric@hqi.be> wrote in message
> > news:em9q4k$90a$1@news.brutele.be...
> > > After a week of searching a reason to solve this problem with
helps
> > > of  Chris Uppal (thanks a lot, Chris), the only thing I can do is
> > > disabling  the splash screen apparition by turning to false the
> > > "showSplashAtStartup"  option in User Preferences under item 1
> > > (Development System). This solve  the delay during startup and
> > > then, Dolphin starts up in 5 to 10 seconds,  so far more
acceptable
> > > then before.
> > >
> > > Anyway, loading the Development System background seems to cause
> > > also a  short delay during startup.  Is there anyone who knows how
> > > to disable this background (bitmap  backgrounds are funny but add
> > > no functionality to application, so it can  be forgotten, no?).
> >
> > I am not sure about D6, but I know with D5 opening it on a Celeron
> > based system (originally intended to be a small server, so not
really
> > designed to be a workstation) the splash screen would be quite slow.
> > It was much slower than on my normal development system.  I always
> > felt (anecdotally) like it was the graphic fade that slowed it down
> > on that computer, like perhaps the graphics card or driver was just
> > really slow with the alpha blend fade.  I believe the bitmap
> > background in the system window is also faded, you might see if your
> > system is slow with fades.  If so you might see if there are any
> > known issues with your graphics card or driver in that regard.
> 
> I think Chris is right, it is most likely the alpha blending that is
> very slow on your machine so disabling the splash screen would be the
> right approach. Does that machine have a particularly old graphics
> adapter compared to the other? Also what is your computer's colour
> depth set to.. ideally it should be 24 or 32bit.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Andy Bower
> Dolphin Support
> www.object-arts.com

0
Eric
12/20/2006 3:05:16 PM
Reply: