f



C,, C++, Java, C#

I come from C,C++,Java and C#. What can SmallTalk do for me and for what
cost?

Regarding the Squeak thing, it's interesting though confusing. Is it an IDE?
Why are the menus so wacky?


0
DM
8/7/2004 1:05:32 AM
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"DM McGowan II" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:PLednX2vnLd11IncRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> I come from C,C++,Java and C#. What can SmallTalk do for me ...?

Ask not what Smalltalk can do for, but what can you do with Smalltalk.
:-)

In very few words, it significantly reduces time to market, while enhancig
the development experience.  This is because:

1.    It manages the memory for you, so you don't have to
allocate/deallocate all the time (the source of some of the most nasty bugs
in C).  Java and C# learnt that feature from ST.
2.    It has single inheritance.
3.    All the development is in a single file, called the image, so you
don't have to fish for where did you put that missing class.  Yet, you don't
have to go through thousands of lines of code to find the method you wrote
three months ago.
4.    It's the language for which it's easier to work within the Agile
methodologies.
5.    It's strongly typed without being unnecessarily redundant.
6.    It's "wacky" interface releases you from the need to use curlys.
7.    It comes with a huge library, so you don't need to reinvent the wheel
as much.
8.    It's debugger is highly integrated and friendly, so the experience of
finding bugs and their solutions is significantly enhanced.
9.    It has a browser, called the workspace, where you can experiment with
code segments before actually writing the methods.
10.    Because of its organization, it's easier to maintain.


>    and for what cost?

As long as you don't make any money, quite a few are free.  Otherwise, it
depends on how much you value your learning time.  There is a learning
curve.  Some STs (like VisualWorks and Dolphin) come with very good
tutorials, which help you getting started.

Hope this helps, probably you'll hear from others as well.
Victor




0
Victor
8/7/2004 7:15:19 AM
It allows one to manage risk. 

It allows one to take on risk that would have been insane or extremely
difficult to bear with other languages. It allows one to manage risk
during the life cycle of a product. When your competitor comes out
with a new set of bells and whistles you can follow suit very quickly
and you can innovate quicker.

This due to the fact that it is an extremely productive environment
that is mature, robust and time tested. Its productivity comes from
its simplicity and dynamic nature of the language , qualities that
permeate the tools and frameworks.

Frankly, it is something that needs to be experienced to be
understood.

I have used it in the context of very large Fortune 500 companies to
the very smallest of venture projects and I also happen to have quite
a bit of experience with other languages well mainly Java.

The most commerically viable dialect in my opinion and especially if
cross-platform portability is an issue is VisualWorks. A full
environment can be downloaded from: www.cincom.com/smalltalk. However,
the others have specific qualities that may be suitable to your ends.
More info on all that is Smalltalk can be found at:
www.whysmalltalk.com.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

-Charles




"Victor" <vmgoldberg__NO-_*SPAM*_-PLEASE@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<bk%Qc.13925$Jp6.2159@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> "DM McGowan II" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:PLednX2vnLd11IncRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> > I come from C,C++,Java and C#. What can SmallTalk do for me ...?
> 
> Ask not what Smalltalk can do for, but what can you do with Smalltalk.
> :-)
> 
> In very few words, it significantly reduces time to market, while enhancig
> the development experience.  This is because:
> 
> 1.    It manages the memory for you, so you don't have to
> allocate/deallocate all the time (the source of some of the most nasty bugs
> in C).  Java and C# learnt that feature from ST.
> 2.    It has single inheritance.
> 3.    All the development is in a single file, called the image, so you
> don't have to fish for where did you put that missing class.  Yet, you don't
> have to go through thousands of lines of code to find the method you wrote
> three months ago.
> 4.    It's the language for which it's easier to work within the Agile
> methodologies.
> 5.    It's strongly typed without being unnecessarily redundant.
> 6.    It's "wacky" interface releases you from the need to use curlys.
> 7.    It comes with a huge library, so you don't need to reinvent the wheel
> as much.
> 8.    It's debugger is highly integrated and friendly, so the experience of
> finding bugs and their solutions is significantly enhanced.
> 9.    It has a browser, called the workspace, where you can experiment with
> code segments before actually writing the methods.
> 10.    Because of its organization, it's easier to maintain.
> 
> 
> >    and for what cost?
> 
> As long as you don't make any money, quite a few are free.  Otherwise, it
> depends on how much you value your learning time.  There is a learning
> curve.  Some STs (like VisualWorks and Dolphin) come with very good
> tutorials, which help you getting started.
> 
> Hope this helps, probably you'll hear from others as well.
> Victor
0
charles
8/12/2004 4:15:59 PM
Hi Charles,

> It allows one to take on risk that would have been insane or extremely
> difficult to bear with other languages. It allows one to manage risk
> during the life cycle of a product. When your competitor comes out
> with a new set of bells and whistles you can follow suit very quickly
> and you can innovate quicker.

I am not sure I fully understand the paragraph above.  Are you referring to
managing risk in general, or the specific risk of a competitor coming up
with bells and whistles?  If the competitor also uses ST, then where are you
left?  Could you give examples of risks that would have been insane or
extremely difficult to bear with other languages?

Victor



"OCIT" <charles@ocit.com> wrote in message
news:8c8566ce.0408120815.574a890f@posting.google.com...
> It allows one to manage risk.
>
> It allows one to take on risk that would have been insane or extremely
> difficult to bear with other languages. It allows one to manage risk
> during the life cycle of a product. When your competitor comes out
> with a new set of bells and whistles you can follow suit very quickly
> and you can innovate quicker.
>
> This due to the fact that it is an extremely productive environment
> that is mature, robust and time tested. Its productivity comes from
> its simplicity and dynamic nature of the language , qualities that
> permeate the tools and frameworks.
>
> Frankly, it is something that needs to be experienced to be
> understood.
>
> I have used it in the context of very large Fortune 500 companies to
> the very smallest of venture projects and I also happen to have quite
> a bit of experience with other languages well mainly Java.
>
> The most commerically viable dialect in my opinion and especially if
> cross-platform portability is an issue is VisualWorks. A full
> environment can be downloaded from: www.cincom.com/smalltalk. However,
> the others have specific qualities that may be suitable to your ends.
> More info on all that is Smalltalk can be found at:
> www.whysmalltalk.com.
>
> Please feel free to ask any questions you may have.
>
> -Charles
>
>
>
>
> "Victor" <vmgoldberg__NO-_*SPAM*_-PLEASE@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<bk%Qc.13925$Jp6.2159@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> > "DM McGowan II" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > news:PLednX2vnLd11IncRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> > > I come from C,C++,Java and C#. What can SmallTalk do for me ...?
> >
> > Ask not what Smalltalk can do for, but what can you do with Smalltalk.
> > :-)
> >
> > In very few words, it significantly reduces time to market, while
enhancig
> > the development experience.  This is because:
> >
> > 1.    It manages the memory for you, so you don't have to
> > allocate/deallocate all the time (the source of some of the most nasty
bugs
> > in C).  Java and C# learnt that feature from ST.
> > 2.    It has single inheritance.
> > 3.    All the development is in a single file, called the image, so you
> > don't have to fish for where did you put that missing class.  Yet, you
don't
> > have to go through thousands of lines of code to find the method you
wrote
> > three months ago.
> > 4.    It's the language for which it's easier to work within the Agile
> > methodologies.
> > 5.    It's strongly typed without being unnecessarily redundant.
> > 6.    It's "wacky" interface releases you from the need to use curlys.
> > 7.    It comes with a huge library, so you don't need to reinvent the
wheel
> > as much.
> > 8.    It's debugger is highly integrated and friendly, so the experience
of
> > finding bugs and their solutions is significantly enhanced.
> > 9.    It has a browser, called the workspace, where you can experiment
with
> > code segments before actually writing the methods.
> > 10.    Because of its organization, it's easier to maintain.
> >
> >
> > >    and for what cost?
> >
> > As long as you don't make any money, quite a few are free.  Otherwise,
it
> > depends on how much you value your learning time.  There is a learning
> > curve.  Some STs (like VisualWorks and Dolphin) come with very good
> > tutorials, which help you getting started.
> >
> > Hope this helps, probably you'll hear from others as well.
> > Victor


0
Victor
8/23/2004 7:10:31 PM
Reply:

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