f



Tcl/Tk on Linux questions

I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux.
Though a computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar with 
any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.

I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set of 
considerations push towards a reasonably standard Debian based 
distro. Another set has me leaning towards Tinycore and its competitors.

The conflict is that the standard/common distro's manage to download 
"everything but the kitchen sink" when >90% of my time will be spent 
with a couple of "kitchen sinks" ;/

I interpret 
http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html as saying 
that as long as I have a specific kernel (or later) all is GO [i.e. 
no dependencies to download].

When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum (though I was 
focusing my question on obtaining smallest .iso) I would have to 
download such a large amount of graphics support that it would 
defeat my goal of a small download.

Two questions:
  1. How confused/befuddled am I?
  2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of 
menus. There were some demo tcl
     files on the ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Something 
like their top level would
     suit me well. My desktop would likely appear to be a half dozen 
icons each launching a
     specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is already 
buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts
     I write. From the user perspective this is pretty much how I 
actually work when using
     Windows(tm).
     Any hidden "gotchas"?

TIA
0
rowlett (414)
9/20/2011 2:37:38 PM
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I am a Linux user since 2002 and I think you're on the way to a great
decision :)

Well, after using a Debian derivate distro (Kurumin) some years ago, I
went straight to pure Debian. It has its problems, but it's the best
general-purpose distro IMHO, unless you'd want to install Linux in a
very old, limited machine, for which a distro msut be very optimized
and have a very small RAM and disk footprint.

With Debian, you can download the "network installer" (+- 150MB) disk
image and then start building a not-so-general installation. For sure,
Debian could be more friendly on this topic, and I wonder why the hell
Debian people have been working on the "graphical installer" for so
many years and it still looks like 90s. Pay special attention on the
drive partitioning, which is easy but always dangerous. Setting up the
dual boot is also easy. After you create your user account and
password, the installer will spend some hours downloading the
remaining packages you need, according to the installation profile you
selected. You'd better have a broadband connection available, with a
network cable, because wireless networks are, from my experience,
never configured correctly by the installer.

I presume you would not want the prefab "desktop" installation, which
installs Gnome with a lot of goodies you might not find interesting,
so you'd better do an installation without a desktop environment, then
install the Xorg packages (tip: using the "apt-get" command in the
console is easier than using the Aptitude package manager which runs
in a text-based GUI), then Synaptic (package manager) and, finally, a
lightweight window manager such as Fluxbox, Openbox or icewm. You will
have the simple menu you want and, with Synaptic there, you can easily
add the Tcl/Tk packages and anything else you'd want.

Best luck!

Fabricio Rocha
Brasilia, Brasil


On Sep 20, 11:37=A0am, Richard Owlett <rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux.
> Though a computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar with
> any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>
> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set of
> considerations push towards a reasonably standard Debian based
> distro. Another set has me leaning towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>
> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's manage to download
> "everything but the kitchen sink" when >90% of my time will be spent
> with a couple of "kitchen sinks" ;/
>
> I interprethttp://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.htmlas sa=
ying
> that as long as I have a specific kernel (or later) all is GO [i.e.
> no dependencies to download].
>
> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum (though I was
> focusing my question on obtaining smallest .iso) I would have to
> download such a large amount of graphics support that it would
> defeat my goal of a small download.
>
> Two questions:
> =A0 1. How confused/befuddled am I?
> =A0 2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of
> menus. There were some demo tcl
> =A0 =A0 =A0files on the ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Somethin=
g
> like their top level would
> =A0 =A0 =A0suit me well. My desktop would likely appear to be a half doze=
n
> icons each launching a
> =A0 =A0 =A0specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is already
> buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts
> =A0 =A0 =A0I write. From the user perspective this is pretty much how I
> actually work when using
> =A0 =A0 =A0Windows(tm).
> =A0 =A0 =A0Any hidden "gotchas"?
>
> TIA

0
cattaghia (59)
9/20/2011 3:19:49 PM
At Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:37:38 -0500 Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:

> 
> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux.
> Though a computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar with 
> any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
> 
> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set of 
> considerations push towards a reasonably standard Debian based 
> distro. Another set has me leaning towards Tinycore and its competitors.
> 
> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's manage to download 
> "everything but the kitchen sink" when >90% of my time will be spent 
> with a couple of "kitchen sinks" ;/
> 
> I interpret 
> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html as saying 
> that as long as I have a specific kernel (or later) all is GO [i.e. 
> no dependencies to download].

*Most* full featured distros include a distro-built version of Tcl/Tk
-- you almost never need to download and install the Activestate
version of Tcl/Tk, unless you need some specific to the Activestate
(like the bytecode compiler or something like that).  You are generally
better off to use the distro-built version of Tcl/Tk, which you would
install using the distro's package management system: 'apt-get install
tcl tk' for a Debian based distro (such as Ubuntu) or 'yum install tcl
tk' for a RPM (RedHat flavored) based distro (such as CentOS or Suse or
Fedora).

> 
> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum (though I was 
> focusing my question on obtaining smallest .iso) I would have to 
> download such a large amount of graphics support that it would 
> defeat my goal of a small download.

Depends on the distro.

> 
> Two questions:
>   1. How confused/befuddled am I?

Only a little. :-)

>   2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of 
> menus. There were some demo tcl
>      files on the ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Something 
> like their top level would
>      suit me well. My desktop would likely appear to be a half dozen 
> icons each launching a
>      specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is already 
> buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts
>      I write. From the user perspective this is pretty much how I 
> actually work when using
>      Windows(tm).

The 'typical' Linux GUI that "looks like" MS-Windows is going to be
GNome, and yes, it is a pretty large download of 'graphics support'. I
am not sure if KDE (the 'other' Linux GUI desktop environment) is very
much smaller (or if it might be larger). Unlike MS-Windows, which has
all it is 'graphics' bundled into the core of the O/S, with Linux, ALL
of the graphics is extra -- a 'bare' Linux system has NO graphics at
all!

It is also possible to have a very minimual GUI as well, but you might
find it hard to use if you are used to MS-Windows.  I use a very simple
GUI: base X11 + the FVWM window manager.  I don't use a graphical file
browser thing and I have NO 'icons' on my 'desktop' at all.  I use
shell windows (using bare xterms) and the CLI file access programs (cp,
mv, rm, ls, cd, etc.) to access files.  Someone used to MS-Windows
would probably find this very hard to use, but it is what *I* am used
to, since it is what I have been using since I first started using
DECWindows (DEC's rebranded X11/Motif GUI) on a VAXStation 2000 and
later a DECStation 3000.

>      Any hidden "gotchas"?
> 
> TIA
>                                                                                                

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                                                                   
0
heller (3031)
9/20/2011 4:11:26 PM
[reformatting to "bottom/interspersed posting for ease of
reading]


cattaghia wrote:
> On Sep 20, 11:37 am, Richard
> Owlett<rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
>> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux. Though a
>> computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar
>> with any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>>
>> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
>> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
>> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning
>> towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>>
>> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's
>> manage to download "everything but the kitchen sink"
>> when>90% of my time will be spent with a couple of
>> "kitchen sinks" ;/
>>
>> I interpret
>> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html
>> as saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
>>
>> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
>> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
>> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
>> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my
>> goal of a small download.
>>
>> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I? 2. What
>> I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of
>> menus. There were some demo tcl files on the ACTIVEDVD
>> I purchased several years ago. Something like their top
>> level would suit me well. My desktop would likely
>> appear to be a half dozen icons each launching a
>> specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is
>> already buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From the
>> user perspective this is pretty much how I actually
>> work when using Windows(tm). Any hidden "gotchas"?
>>
>> TIA
>
> I am a Linux user since 2002 and I think you're on the
> way to a great decision :)
>
> Well, after using a Debian derivate distro (Kurumin)
> some years ago, I went straight to pure Debian. It has
> its problems, but it's the best general-purpose distro
> IMHO, unless you'd want to install Linux in a very old,
> limited machine, for which a distro must be very
> optimized and have a very small RAM and disk footprint.

*BUT* that's not what is attractive to me about distros like
Tinycore and its ~10MB iso. My machines operate at >1.5 GHz
and have a minimum of 1 GB of memory. I am, however,
constrained to using a 56k dial up connection for connecting
to the Web. If I MUST do a large download, I carry my laptop
to the local library and use their hot spot. Linux *WILL*
reside on an USB memory stick until such time as I get rid
ow Windows completely. I do not trust Windows in a dual boot
environment - that's not negotiable ;/!

>
> With Debian, you can download the "network installer"
> (+- 150MB) disk image and then start building a
> not-so-general installation. For sure, Debian could be
> more friendly on this topic, and I wonder why the hell
> Debian people have been working on the "graphical
> installer" for so many years and it still looks like
> 90s. Pay special attention on the drive partitioning,
> which is easy but always dangerous. Setting up the dual
> boot is also easy.

As I said "Thou shalt not dual boot".

> After you create your user account and password, the
> installer will spend some hours downloading the remaining
> packages you need, according to the installation profile
> you selected. You'd better have a broadband connection
> available, with a network cable, because wireless
> networks are, from my experience, never configured
> correctly by the installer.

Second project specification:
Thou shalt avoid broadband as much as possible.

>
> I presume you would not want the prefab "desktop"
> installation, which installs Gnome with a lot of goodies
> you might not find interesting, so you'd better do an
> installation without a desktop environment, then install
> the Xorg packages

WHY? Is there something there that is *REQUIRED* for Tcl/Tk?


> (tip: using the "apt-get" command in the console is
> easier than using the Aptitude package manager which runs
> in a text-based GUI), then Synaptic (package manager)
> and, finally, a lightweight window manager such as
> Fluxbox, Openbox or icewm. You will have the simple menu
> you want and, with Synaptic there, you can easily add the
> Tcl/Tk packages and anything else you'd want.
>
> Best luck!
>
> Fabricio Rocha Brasilia, Brasil
>
>

My questions remain:
  1. How confused/befuddled am I?
  2. Any hidden "gotchas"?


0
rowlett (414)
9/20/2011 4:37:29 PM
Robert Heller wrote:
> At Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:37:38 -0500 Richard
> Owlett<rowlett@pcnetinc.com>  wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux. Though a
>> computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar
>> with any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>>
>> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
>> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
>> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning towards
>> Tinycore and its competitors.
>>
>> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's
>> manage to download "everything but the kitchen sink"
>> when>90% of my time will be spent with a couple of
>> "kitchen sinks" ;/
>>
>> I interpret
>> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html
>> as saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
>
> *Most* full featured distros include a distro-built
> version of Tcl/Tk -- you almost never need to download
> and install the Activestate version of Tcl/Tk, unless you
> need some specific to the Activestate (like the bytecode
> compiler or something like that).  You are generally
> better off to use the distro-built version of Tcl/Tk,
> which you would install using the distro's package
> management system: 'apt-get install tcl tk' for a Debian
> based distro (such as Ubuntu) or 'yum install tcl tk' for
> a RPM (RedHat flavored) based distro (such as CentOS or
> Suse or Fedora).
>

<snicker> on two points:
1. I downloaded live iso's of Ubuntu and Debian at >600MB
    each. I don't recall either having Tcl/Tk in that massive
    download - thought it was available in the repository. 
Ubuntu
    would not even recognize my USB external modem. The Debian
    did recognize the modem's existence but had some other
    problem using it to connect to the Web (its been months).
2. The Tinycore distro _at ~10 MB_ provided all the GUI I need.
    I don't recall if it recognized my modem but one of the 
small
    distro's was able to dial my ISP.

>>
>> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
>> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
>> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
>> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my goal
>> of a small download.
>
> Depends on the distro.
>

Given my reading of 
http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html
that does not seem to make sense.

I quote:
"Linux

     * 2.4 kernel or greater (glibc 2.3).
     * 50 MB for the final install.
     * web browser for reading documentation.
"

What am I missing?

>>
>> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I?
>
> Only a little. :-)
>
>> 2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a
>> set of menus. There were some demo tcl files on the
>> ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Something like
>> their top level would suit me well. My desktop would
>> likely appear to be a half dozen icons each launching
>> a specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI
>> is already buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From
>> the user perspective this is pretty much how I actually
>> work when using Windows(tm).
>
> The 'typical' Linux GUI that "looks like" MS-Windows is
> going to be GNome, and yes, it is a pretty large download
> of 'graphics support'. I am not sure if KDE (the 'other'
> Linux GUI desktop environment) is very much smaller (or
> if it might be larger). Unlike MS-Windows, which has all
> it is 'graphics' bundled into the core of the O/S, with
> Linux, ALL of the graphics is extra -- a 'bare' Linux
> system has NO graphics at all!

I want to advance to where I was when using CPM-80 ;)

>
> It is also possible to have a very minimal GUI as well,
> but you might find it hard to use if you are used to
> MS-Windows.  I use a very simple GUI: base X11 + the FVWM
> window manager.  I don't use a graphical file browser
> thing and I have NO 'icons' on my 'desktop' at all.  I
> use shell windows (using bare xterms) and the CLI file
> access programs (cp, mv, rm, ls, cd, etc.) to access
> files.  Someone used to MS-Windows would probably find
> this very hard to use, but it is what *I* am used to,
> since it is what I have been using since I first started
> using DECWindows (DEC's rebranded X11/Motif GUI) on a
> VAXStation 2000 and later a DECStation 3000.

I'll see your VAX and raise you an 11/45 with RT-11 or RSX-11M.
(I was a jr engineer in Power Supply Engineering in Maynard 
in early 70's)

>
>> Any hidden "gotchas"?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>
0
rowlett (414)
9/20/2011 5:24:51 PM
Richard Owlett wrote:
> WHY? Is there something there that is *REQUIRED* for Tcl/Tk?

Unixies are not the munged together stuff you get from Microsoft.


First you have a kernel . and you find that good.
then you get a shell ( you don't need two, we are not
in the Demolition Man timeline ;-)
then you get an X-Server for you want a GUI window or two and use a mouse
then you get a Window Manager and maybe a Pager.
because you want to move the windows where you would like to have them
and the Pager because there never is enough real estate on screen.

Get a CD-Image distro like Knoppix ( debian based )
or the SuSE-Live stuff or similar.
If you tell about a snail mail address I would even
be willing to post one ( Knoppix? ) to you.

You start those from windows and they run in RAM
( Though you have access to your windows drives if you want to
    and can store state on a stick or on your drives )

uwe

> My questions remain:
>  1. How confused/befuddled am I?
>  2. Any hidden "gotchas"?
> 
>
You seem to be in the domain of Rumsfelds unknown unknowns ;-)


0
uwe6118 (423)
9/20/2011 5:32:08 PM
I think your questions will remain for a while, Richard... the
discussion here will only try to put some light, but real truth is
very subjective! Your requirements are clearer now:

> As I said "Thou shalt not dual boot".

> and have a minimum of 1 GB of memory. I am, however,
> constrained to using a 56k dial up connection for connecting
> to the Web.

This will make pure Debian a lot painful to install. Well, I have read
about TinyCore a while ago, when I was trying to put life back on a
1998 Thinkpad 600E with Pentium II 366 processor and 6GB of disk
space. I tested Slitaz, which seemed to have a good potential and was
impressively fast on the old pad. It is larger than TinyCore, anyways.
The problem with the so small distros is that they usually depend a
lot on a web connection. Okay, they give you a lighweight, pre-
configured desktop and some productivity software and common
utilities, but when you start to customize it for your needs you will
really have to get online. Also, for many of them, software packages
and repositories are often outdated and unmaintained -- some will have
only Tcl 8.4, if it's offered.

> WHY? Is there something there that is *REQUIRED* for Tcl/Tk?

Sorry if this is a disappointment, but yes... GNU-Linux is very
modular. Although hardware drivers are built into the kernel itself,
other parts of the OS environment as a whole are not: printing system
is installed apart, filesystem management utilities are optional, the
graphical interface is not part of the base system, and even the
command line shell isn't. Tcl/Tk on Unixes requires the X windowing
system, which is provided by Xorg, or XFree86 or some other packages.
That's why a good package management system is a must for most users,
and that's why there are so many distros based on Debian RPM. Good
package managers will install all the dependencies automatically when
you choose to install Tcl/Tk or anything else.


> Linux *WILL* reside on an USB memory stick until such time as I get rid
> ow Windows completely.

Have you thought about using a Live-CD distro? Slitaz is one of them,
Knoppix is very good in hardware detection, Ubuntu may run from CD as
well, and there's a lot of specific-purposes distros built that way.
Right, boot is usually slow as hell, but they are a one-time download
which comes with a lot of programs pre-installed, so you won't need to
be connected so much. Booting from a CD is a lot easier and more
granted than booting from USB. Many of them allow you to store your
user configurations and preferences -- and even programs you decide to
install -- in a USB stick, in a directory or in a "loop mounted" file
in your Winblows HDD which won't mess up with your current
partitioning scheme. And most of them (if not all) provide
installation scripts which allow you to install to HD when you are
sufficiently confident and comfortable. I have tried USB installs and
never had the same success I had with live CDs.


Fabricio Rocha
Brasilia, Brasil

On Sep 20, 1:37=A0pm, Richard Owlett <rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
....
0
cattaghia (59)
9/20/2011 5:49:39 PM
On Sep 20, 7:37=A0am, Richard Owlett <rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux.
> Though a computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar with
> any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>
> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set of
> considerations push towards a reasonably standard Debian based
> distro. Another set has me leaning towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>
> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's manage to download
> "everything but the kitchen sink" when >90% of my time will be spent
> with a couple of "kitchen sinks" ;/
>
> I interprethttp://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.htmlas sa=
ying
> that as long as I have a specific kernel (or later) all is GO [i.e.
> no dependencies to download].
>
> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum (though I was
> focusing my question on obtaining smallest .iso) I would have to
> download such a large amount of graphics support that it would
> defeat my goal of a small download.
>
> Two questions:
> =A0 1. How confused/befuddled am I?
> =A0 2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of
> menus. There were some demo tcl
> =A0 =A0 =A0files on the ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Somethin=
g
> like their top level would
> =A0 =A0 =A0suit me well. My desktop would likely appear to be a half doze=
n
> icons each launching a
> =A0 =A0 =A0specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is already
> buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts
> =A0 =A0 =A0I write. From the user perspective this is pretty much how I
> actually work when using
> =A0 =A0 =A0Windows(tm).
> =A0 =A0 =A0Any hidden "gotchas"?
>
> TIA

I like TinyCore a lot, although it is probably not the best distro for
a beginner. I would recommend Puppy Linux:
 http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm
if you are looking for something small, fast and user friendly. The
latest versions of Puppy Linux supports Ubuntu repositories.

From my experience, ActiveState will work on almost any Linux distro.
I prefer ActiveState over distro's own packaged Tcl because distro
packaged Tcl is often incomplete, outdated, lagging behind.
0
tcl.bliss (95)
9/20/2011 5:50:31 PM
At Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:24:51 -0500 Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:

> 
> Robert Heller wrote:
> > At Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:37:38 -0500 Richard
> > Owlett<rowlett@pcnetinc.com>  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux. Though a
> >> computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar
> >> with any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
> >>
> >> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
> >> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
> >> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning towards
> >> Tinycore and its competitors.
> >>
> >> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's
> >> manage to download "everything but the kitchen sink"
> >> when>90% of my time will be spent with a couple of
> >> "kitchen sinks" ;/
> >>
> >> I interpret
> >> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html
> >> as saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
> >> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
> >
> > *Most* full featured distros include a distro-built
> > version of Tcl/Tk -- you almost never need to download
> > and install the Activestate version of Tcl/Tk, unless you
> > need some specific to the Activestate (like the bytecode
> > compiler or something like that).  You are generally
> > better off to use the distro-built version of Tcl/Tk,
> > which you would install using the distro's package
> > management system: 'apt-get install tcl tk' for a Debian
> > based distro (such as Ubuntu) or 'yum install tcl tk' for
> > a RPM (RedHat flavored) based distro (such as CentOS or
> > Suse or Fedora).
> >
> 
> <snicker> on two points:
> 1. I downloaded live iso's of Ubuntu and Debian at >600MB
>     each. I don't recall either having Tcl/Tk in that massive
>     download - thought it was available in the repository. 
> Ubuntu
>     would not even recognize my USB external modem. The Debian
>     did recognize the modem's existence but had some other
>     problem using it to connect to the Web (its been months).

Ubuntu and Debian generally really assume you have a good internet
connection and only put their idea of 'core' packages on the CD,
assuming you will do an apt-get install for anything else.

CentOS comes on a DVD (actually 2, although the second one just
contains OO's extra localization files).  The CentOS DVD(s) (or CDs)
are available from CheapBytes, which is an inexponsive alternitive to
dialup download (the cost of the DVDs/CDs + shipping is probably less
than the cost of gas, etc. going to an Internet Cafe). And yes, Tcl and
Tk (and their -devel packages) are on the DVD.

> 2. The Tinycore distro _at ~10 MB_ provided all the GUI I need.
>     I don't recall if it recognized my modem but one of the 
> small
>     distro's was able to dial my ISP.
> 
> >>
> >> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
> >> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
> >> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
> >> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my goal
> >> of a small download.
> >
> > Depends on the distro.
> >
> 
> Given my reading of 
> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html
> that does not seem to make sense.
> 
> I quote:
> "Linux
> 
>      * 2.4 kernel or greater (glibc 2.3).
>      * 50 MB for the final install.
>      * web browser for reading documentation.
> "
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> >>
> >> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I?
> >
> > Only a little. :-)
> >
> >> 2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a
> >> set of menus. There were some demo tcl files on the
> >> ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Something like
> >> their top level would suit me well. My desktop would
> >> likely appear to be a half dozen icons each launching
> >> a specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI
> >> is already buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From
> >> the user perspective this is pretty much how I actually
> >> work when using Windows(tm).
> >
> > The 'typical' Linux GUI that "looks like" MS-Windows is
> > going to be GNome, and yes, it is a pretty large download
> > of 'graphics support'. I am not sure if KDE (the 'other'
> > Linux GUI desktop environment) is very much smaller (or
> > if it might be larger). Unlike MS-Windows, which has all
> > it is 'graphics' bundled into the core of the O/S, with
> > Linux, ALL of the graphics is extra -- a 'bare' Linux
> > system has NO graphics at all!
> 
> I want to advance to where I was when using CPM-80 ;)
> 
> >
> > It is also possible to have a very minimal GUI as well,
> > but you might find it hard to use if you are used to
> > MS-Windows.  I use a very simple GUI: base X11 + the FVWM
> > window manager.  I don't use a graphical file browser
> > thing and I have NO 'icons' on my 'desktop' at all.  I
> > use shell windows (using bare xterms) and the CLI file
> > access programs (cp, mv, rm, ls, cd, etc.) to access
> > files.  Someone used to MS-Windows would probably find
> > this very hard to use, but it is what *I* am used to,
> > since it is what I have been using since I first started
> > using DECWindows (DEC's rebranded X11/Motif GUI) on a
> > VAXStation 2000 and later a DECStation 3000.
> 
> I'll see your VAX and raise you an 11/45 with RT-11 or RSX-11M.
> (I was a jr engineer in Power Supply Engineering in Maynard 
> in early 70's)
> 
> >
> >> Any hidden "gotchas"?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >
>   

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                                                  
0
heller (3031)
9/20/2011 9:46:16 PM
Tcl Bliss wrote:
> On Sep 20, 7:37 am, Richard Owlett<rowl...@pcnetinc.com>
> wrote:
>> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux. Though a
>> computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar
>> with any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>>
>> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
>> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
>> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning
>> towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>>
>> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's
>> manage to download "everything but the kitchen sink"
>> when>90% of my time will be spent with a couple of
>> "kitchen sinks" ;/
>>
>> I
>> interpret http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html as
>>
>>
saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
>>
>> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
>> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
>> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
>> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my
>> goal of a small download.
>>
>> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I? 2. What
>> I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of
>> menus. There were some demo tcl files on the ACTIVEDVD
>> I purchased several years ago. Something like their
>> top level would suit me well. My desktop would likely
>> appear to be a half dozen icons each launching a
>> specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is
>> already buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From
>> the user perspective this is pretty much how I
>> actually work when using Windows(tm). Any hidden
>> "gotchas"?
>>
>> TIA
>
> I like TinyCore a lot, although it is probably not the
> best distro for a beginner. I would recommend Puppy
> Linux:
> http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm
>
>
>
if you are looking for something small, fast and user
friendly. The
> latest versions of Puppy Linux supports Ubuntu
> repositories.
>

*CHUCKLE*
THEIR website repeatedly cautions "newbies" on the issue.
Though I've not yet RISEN to rank of "Linux newbie", I
suspect I have the mindset. Back in "THE DAY" I actually 
read the complete Digital Research CPM-80 manual cover to 
cover. Whether or not I grokked what I read is an open question.



> From my experience, ActiveState will work on almost any
> Linux distro.

Does it work on/with Tinycore?


>  I prefer ActiveState over distro's own
> packaged Tcl because distro packaged Tcl is often
> incomplete, outdated, lagging behind.

Face facts, ActiveTcl is _*A*_ 'de facto' standard.
And this is a public thank you for this result!

0
rowlett (414)
9/21/2011 1:52:38 AM
Robert Heller wrote:
> At Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:24:51 -0500 Richard Owlett<rowlett@pcnetinc.com>  wrote:
>
> [OP does *MASSIVE SNIP* ]
>> <snicker>  on two points:
>> 1. I downloaded live iso's of Ubuntu and Debian at>600MB
>>      each. I don't recall either having Tcl/Tk in that massive
>>      download - thought it was available in the repository.
>> Ubuntu
>>      would not even recognize my USB external modem. The Debian
>>      did recognize the modem's existence but had some other
>>      problem using it to connect to the Web (its been months).
>
> Ubuntu and Debian generally really assume you have a good internet
> connection and only put their idea of 'core' packages on the CD,
> assuming you will do an apt-get install for anything else.

That's the CORE of the problem - bad pun *INTENDED* ;/

Perhaps this sub-thread should be carried on privately.
I'll attempt to raise appropriate issues in appropriate fora.



0
rowlett (414)
9/21/2011 2:05:52 AM
On Sep 20, 6:52=A0pm, Richard Owlett <rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
> Tcl Bliss wrote:
> > On Sep 20, 7:37 am, Richard Owlett<rowl...@pcnetinc.com>
> > wrote:
> >> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux. Though a
> >> computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar
> >> with any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>
> >> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
> >> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
> >> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning
> >> towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>
> >> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's
> >> manage to download "everything but the kitchen sink"
> >> when>90% of my time will be spent with a couple of
> >> "kitchen sinks" ;/
>
> >> I
> >> interprethttp://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.htmlas
>
> saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
>
> >> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
> >> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
> >> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
> >> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my
> >> goal of a small download.
>
> >> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I? 2. What
> >> I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of
> >> menus. There were some demo tcl files on the ACTIVEDVD
> >> I purchased several years ago. Something like their
> >> top level would suit me well. My desktop would likely
> >> appear to be a half dozen icons each launching a
> >> specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is
> >> already buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From
> >> the user perspective this is pretty much how I
> >> actually work when using Windows(tm). Any hidden
> >> "gotchas"?
>
> >> TIA
>
> > I like TinyCore a lot, although it is probably not the
> > best distro for a beginner. I would recommend Puppy
> > Linux:
> >http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm
>
> if you are looking for something small, fast and user
> friendly. The
>
> > latest versions of Puppy Linux supports Ubuntu
> > repositories.
>
> *CHUCKLE*
> THEIR website repeatedly cautions "newbies" on the issue.
> Though I've not yet RISEN to rank of "Linux newbie", I
> suspect I have the mindset. Back in "THE DAY" I actually
> read the complete Digital Research CPM-80 manual cover to
> cover. Whether or not I grokked what I read is an open question.
>
> > From my experience, ActiveState will work on almost any
> > Linux distro.
>
> Does it work on/with Tinycore?


I haven't tried the latest version yet but yes, I have used
ActiveState on TinyCore like one or two versions back.

>
> > =A0I prefer ActiveState over distro's own
> > packaged Tcl because distro packaged Tcl is often
> > incomplete, outdated, lagging behind.
>
> Face facts, ActiveTcl is _*A*_ 'de facto' standard.
> And this is a public thank you for this result!

0
tcl.bliss (95)
9/21/2011 4:50:43 AM
Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> writes:

> *BUT* that's not what is attractive to me about distros like
> Tinycore and its ~10MB iso. My machines operate at >1.5 GHz
> and have a minimum of 1 GB of memory. I am, however,
> constrained to using a 56k dial up connection for connecting

In that case, what I would do is get a full DVD-sized bells-and-whistles
distro (like openSuse) by other means.  Even having someone mail it to
you.  Do a pick-and-choose of packages during installation, but
you still have the DVD to install more packages from later, if
you wish.


Donald Arseneau                          asnd@triumf.ca
0
asnd (4601)
9/21/2011 7:43:32 AM
Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:

> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set of 
> considerations push towards a reasonably standard Debian based 
> distro. Another set has me leaning towards Tinycore and its competitors.

Those are two totally different distros. Debian is a good example of a
distro with a package management system that's central to using Debian. When
you install a package, the package manager insures you have all the
prerequisites. I personally don't like (actually I dislike) Debian but
nobody can say it's a "bad distro". It's a matter of taste. Debian will be
somewhat behind, it's more for stability than bleeding edge.

TinyCore is run by a brilliant guy who thinks small. You will need to learn
some Linux to get the most out of TinyCore. You may be able to do that with
TinyCore itself, maybe not, all depends on you.


> I interpret 
> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html as saying 
> that as long as I have a specific kernel (or later) all is GO [i.e. 
> no dependencies to download].

That is not true at all but it doesn't matter since you can install the
packages from most distros you choose to run and you'll get everything you
need for TCL/Tk. On distros without package management you'll have to have
the c compiler and tools and perhaps a few other things.

> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum (though I was 
> focusing my question on obtaining smallest .iso) I would have to 
> download such a large amount of graphics support that it would 
> defeat my goal of a small download.
> 
> Two questions:
>   1. How confused/befuddled am I?

No way of knowing but I do have a few suggestions to unfuddle you. Have a
look at distrowatch.com. They have links and information for every major
distro and more.

Don't install Linux as the main OS unless you have a spare computer
available. Install VMWare or VirtualBox and install Linux in that, on your
Windows machine. It will ease the migration. It will protect you from
hurting yourself. If you do something stupid you won't be dead in the water
with no OS. If you decide you don't like the distro, you can just delete the
VM and it will be like it was never there.

>   2. What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of 
> menus. There were some demo tcl
>      files on the ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago. Something 
> like their top level would
>      suit me well. My desktop would likely appear to be a half dozen 
> icons each launching a
>      specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is already 
> buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts
>      I write. From the user perspective this is pretty much how I 
> actually work when using
>      Windows(tm).
>      Any hidden "gotchas"?

No, but you have lots of decisions to make. There's only one Windows
although you have Vista and 7 now. Linux has thousands of distros and you'll
probably need to install and try a few before you find what you like. Then
you have dozens of desktops. The two major ones are gnome and kde but there
are many other popular, lighter weight choices. It takes time and
experimenting to get Linux the way you want. The difference between Windows
and Linux is Windows is easy to set up because you don't have many
choices. Linux can be easy to setup if you don't care but if you want
something specific it can take awhile. But you can do almost anything, which
isn't true of Windows. Linux is certainly a better developer's environment
than Windows except if you only use MS technologies like .NET etc.

Ubuntu is based on Debian and is a good hand-holding distro for first
timers. It is very bloated as are all the distros aimed at non-technical
users coming from Windows. But it's also very refined. I would suggest
starting there and then when you learn more about what you want and don't
want try using the info on distrowatch to refine your search.

0
fritz16 (44)
9/21/2011 8:31:42 AM
Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> Richard Owlett<rowlett@pcnetinc.com>  wrote:
>
>> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
>> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
>> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning
>> towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>
> Those are two totally different distros.

I had two different goals so it is reasonable that two
widely different solutions would offer themselves. debian
related (VERY large accessible repository) vs Tinycore
(small with visually simple uncluttered)

> Debian is a good example of a distro with a package
> management system that's central to using Debian. When
> you install a package, the package manager insures you
> have all the prerequisites. I personally don't like
> (actually I dislike) Debian but nobody can say it's a
> "bad distro". It's a matter of taste. Debian will be
> somewhat behind, it's more for stability than bleeding
> edge.

Slow changing is good. I haven't seen any significant
improvement in user experience from what Win 3.1 promised
and what WinXP Pro delivers. I'd probably be happy with
CPM-80 but the world went GUI, so I followed.

>
> TinyCore is run by a brilliant guy who thinks small. You
> will need to learn some Linux to get the most out of
> TinyCore. You may be able to do that with TinyCore
> itself, maybe not, all depends on you.
>
>
>> I interpret
>> http://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.html
>>
>>
as saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
>
> That is not true at all but it doesn't matter since you
> can install the packages from most distros you choose to
> run and you'll get everything you need for TCL/Tk. On
> distros without package management you'll have to have
> the c compiler and tools and perhaps a few other things.
>
>> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
>> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
>> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
>> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my
>> goal of a small download.
>>
>> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I?
>
> No way of knowing but I do have a few suggestions to
> unfuddle you. Have a look at distrowatch.com. They have
> links and information for every major distro and more.
>
> Don't install Linux as the main OS unless you have a
> spare computer available. Install VMWare or VirtualBox
> and install Linux in that, on your Windows machine. It
> will ease the migration. It will protect you from
> hurting yourself. If you do something stupid you won't be
> dead in the water with no OS. If you decide you don't
> like the distro, you can just delete the VM and it will
> be like it was never there.


THE SOLUTION I suspect. I didn't realize that there was a
version of VirtualBox to run on a Windows host. Had seen
many references on the Linux lists I follow where Windows
was the guest system. One of my requirements is not doing
anything to the hard disk that Windows could not undo with
standard file operations.

I recently bought a TB external drive to encourage backups.
Think I'll have room to experiment with several virtualized
Linux's ;/

Thanks

0
rowlett (414)
9/21/2011 6:56:23 PM
On Sep 20, 9:50=A0pm, Tcl Bliss <tcl.bl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 20, 6:52=A0pm, Richard Owlett <rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tcl Bliss wrote:
> > > On Sep 20, 7:37 am, Richard Owlett<rowl...@pcnetinc.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux. Though a
> > >> computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm not familiar
> > >> with any OS internals/structure since CPM-80.
>
> > >> I have not yet decided on which distro to use. One set
> > >> of considerations push towards a reasonably standard
> > >> Debian based distro. Another set has me leaning
> > >> towards Tinycore and its competitors.
>
> > >> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's
> > >> manage to download "everything but the kitchen sink"
> > >> when>90% of my time will be spent with a couple of
> > >> "kitchen sinks" ;/
>
> > >> I
> > >> interprethttp://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.htmlas
>
> > saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>
> > >> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to download].
>
> > >> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
> > >> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
> > >> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a large
> > >> amount of graphics support that it would defeat my
> > >> goal of a small download.
>
> > >> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I? 2. What
> > >> I want from a "GUI" many might consider just a set of
> > >> menus. There were some demo tcl files on the ACTIVEDVD
> > >> I purchased several years ago. Something like their
> > >> top level would suit me well. My desktop would likely
> > >> appear to be a half dozen icons each launching a
> > >> specific menu. Anything more I associate with a GUI is
> > >> already buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From
> > >> the user perspective this is pretty much how I
> > >> actually work when using Windows(tm). Any hidden
> > >> "gotchas"?
>
> > >> TIA
>
> > > I like TinyCore a lot, although it is probably not the
> > > best distro for a beginner. I would recommend Puppy
> > > Linux:
> > >http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm
>
> > if you are looking for something small, fast and user
> > friendly. The
>
> > > latest versions of Puppy Linux supports Ubuntu
> > > repositories.
>
> > *CHUCKLE*
> > THEIR website repeatedly cautions "newbies" on the issue.
> > Though I've not yet RISEN to rank of "Linux newbie", I
> > suspect I have the mindset. Back in "THE DAY" I actually
> > read the complete Digital Research CPM-80 manual cover to
> > cover. Whether or not I grokked what I read is an open question.
>
> > > From my experience, ActiveState will work on almost any
> > > Linux distro.
>
> > Does it work on/with Tinycore?
>
> I haven't tried the latest version yet but yes, I have used
> ActiveState on TinyCore like one or two versions back.

Just installed the latest complete ActiveState 8.6 TCL on the latest
release candidate 4.0rc2 TinyCore. Everything works fine. Since
TinyCore runs in memory, it needs extra memory for a complete
ActiveState install (around 110meg). If it was a native TinyCore
package, it would be much smaller plus it would not use memory, if
saved to a disk. Would be nice to create the package, that is, if
ActiveState allows it. Or, may be build one from sources.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > =A0I prefer ActiveState over distro's own
> > > packaged Tcl because distro packaged Tcl is often
> > > incomplete, outdated, lagging behind.
>
> > Face facts, ActiveTcl is _*A*_ 'de facto' standard.
> > And this is a public thank you for this result!

0
tcl.bliss (95)
9/21/2011 7:12:36 PM
Tcl Bliss wrote:
> On Sep 20, 9:50 pm, Tcl Bliss<tcl.bl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Sep 20, 6:52 pm, Richard
>> Owlett<rowl...@pcnetinc.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Tcl Bliss wrote:
>>>> On Sep 20, 7:37 am, Richard
>>>> Owlett<rowl...@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm thinking of moving from Windows to Linux.
>>>>> Though a computer _user_ since days of 026's, I'm
>>>>> not familiar with any OS internals/structure
>>>>> since CPM-80.
>>
>>>>> I have not yet decided on which distro to use.
>>>>> One set of considerations push towards a
>>>>> reasonably standard Debian based distro. Another
>>>>> set has me leaning towards Tinycore and its
>>>>> competitors.
>>
>>>>> The conflict is that the standard/common
>>>>> distro's manage to download "everything but the
>>>>> kitchen sink" when>90% of my time will be spent
>>>>> with a couple of "kitchen sinks" ;/
>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> interprethttp://docs.activestate.com/activetcl/8.5/at.install.htmlas
>>
>>>
>>>>>
saying that as long as I have a specific kernel (or
>>
>>>>> later) all is GO [i.e. no dependencies to
>>>>> download].
>>
>>>>> When I asked a similar question on a Linux forum
>>>>> (though I was focusing my question on obtaining
>>>>> smallest .iso) I would have to download such a
>>>>> large amount of graphics support that it would
>>>>> defeat my goal of a small download.
>>
>>>>> Two questions: 1. How confused/befuddled am I? 2.
>>>>> What I want from a "GUI" many might consider just
>>>>> a set of menus. There were some demo tcl files on
>>>>> the ACTIVEDVD I purchased several years ago.
>>>>> Something like their top level would suit me
>>>>> well. My desktop would likely appear to be a half
>>>>> dozen icons each launching a specific menu.
>>>>> Anything more I associate with a GUI is already
>>>>> buried in pure Tcl/Tk scripts I write. From the
>>>>> user perspective this is pretty much how I
>>>>> actually work when using Windows(tm). Any hidden
>>>>> "gotchas"?
>>
>>>>> TIA
>>
>>>> I like TinyCore a lot, although it is probably not
>>>> the best distro for a beginner. I would recommend
>>>> Puppy Linux:
>>>> http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm
>>
>>>
>>>>
if you are looking for something small, fast and user
>>> friendly. The
>>
>>>> latest versions of Puppy Linux supports Ubuntu
>>>> repositories.
>>
>>> *CHUCKLE* THEIR website repeatedly cautions "newbies"
>>> on the issue. Though I've not yet RISEN to rank of
>>> "Linux newbie", I suspect I have the mindset. Back in
>>> "THE DAY" I actually read the complete Digital
>>> Research CPM-80 manual cover to cover. Whether or not
>>> I grokked what I read is an open question.
>>
>>>> From my experience, ActiveState will work on almost
>>>> any Linux distro.
>>
>>> Does it work on/with Tinycore?
>>
>> I haven't tried the latest version yet but yes, I have
>> used ActiveState on TinyCore like one or two versions
>> back.
>
> Just installed the latest complete ActiveState 8.6 TCL on
> the latest release candidate 4.0rc2 TinyCore. Everything
> works fine. Since TinyCore runs in memory, it needs extra
> memory for a complete ActiveState install (around
> 110meg). If it was a native TinyCore package, it would be
> much smaller plus it would not use memory, if saved to a
> disk. Would be nice to create the package, that is, if
> ActiveState allows it. Or, may be build one from
> sources.
>

Thank you. And as it has been pointed out to me that
VirtualBox can host Linux on a Windows box and my desktop
machine has lots of disk space I can safely experiment with
the half dozen Live CD's I've accumulated.

>>>> I prefer ActiveState over distro's own packaged Tcl
>>>> because distro packaged Tcl is often incomplete,
>>>> outdated, lagging behind.
>>
>>> Face facts, ActiveTcl is _*A*_ 'de facto' standard.
>>> And this is a public thank you for this result!
>
0
rowlett (414)
9/21/2011 7:20:01 PM
In comp.lang.tcl, Richard Owlett wrote:

> The conflict is that the standard/common distro's manage to download 
> "everything but the kitchen sink" when >90% of my time will be spent 
> with a couple of "kitchen sinks" ;/

Then take a closer look at Gobolinux - or Slackware.
-- 
Z.
0
9/21/2011 8:57:38 PM
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Hi everyone, I have been pulling my hair with this one for a couple of days and still have not found a fix. I'm working within ANSYS Tcl-Tk implementation. I created a Tcl-Tk script that generates a simple window with three buttons. Each button opens another window which is created in a separate Tcl file. The second window have a lot of text entries, variables, procedures, etc. I can open the second Tcl file by itself and everything works as supposed, but when I open it using the button in the first window, it opens but any procedure called by the widgets on the second window are not found... Here's the deal... Since I'm working within the ANSYS implementation of Tcl-Tk, I'm actually using an ANSYS command to open the second window. The command I use is: ### ans_sendcommand ~eui,'source O:/mad_projects_2/ANSYS/Macros/ IBR_CAS.tcl' ### It actually sends a command back to ANSYS telling it to execute a Tcl command... I know this is not pretty but its the only way i was able to make it at least show the window. ############################## #Main Tcl (excerpt): ############################## namespace eval Tools { proc IBRCambpell {} { #source O:/mad_projects_2/ANSYS/Macros/IBR_CAS.tcl ans_sendcommand ~eui,'source O:/mad_projects_2/ANSYS/Macros/ IBR_CAS.tcl' } proc viewManager {} { ans_sendcommand ~eui,'source O:/mad_projects_2/ANSYS/Macros/ ViewManager.tcl' } proc powerAnnotation {} { ans_sendcommand ~eui,'source ...

Debugger for Tcl/Tk and [incr Tcl]
hi, where can i get Coverage for debugging tcl/tk, [incr Tcl] source? this tool is advised to use in 'Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk' or any other good debugger, which i could use? best, s. On Jan 23, 5:56=A0am, Sitaca <sit...@gmail.com> wrote: > hi, > > where can i get Coverage for debugging tcl/tk, [incr Tcl] source? > this tool is advised to use in 'Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk' > > or any other good debugger, which i could use? I see, at http://wiki.tcl.tk/8638 , a brief reference to the topic of coverage for tcl. I don't know whether or not any of the tools mentioned include coverage of itcl. On 23 jan, 12:52, "Larry W. Virden" <lvir...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 23, 5:56=A0am, Sitaca <sit...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > hi, > > > where can i get Coverage for debugging tcl/tk, [incr Tcl] source? > > this tool is advised to use in 'Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk' > > > or any other good debugger, which i could use? > > I see, athttp://wiki.tcl.tk/8638, a brief reference to the topic of > coverage for tcl. I don't know whether or not any of the tools > mentioned include coverage of itcl. I have a more complete version of the coverage tool mentioned on that page. I just never got around to publishing it more widely. As for debuggers: the Wiki has a lot of pointers on that subject as well. Regards, Arjen Larry W. Virden wrote:...

tk::mac::ShowPreferences in Tcl/Tk Linux version?
When I define a procedure tk::mac::ShowPreferences working on a Mac Leopard Snow with the Mac version of ActiveState Tcl/Tk I can use the Mac Preference menu without problems. Great work! But normally I work on a Unix platform compiling my program with tclkit-darwin-aqua for a Mac Platform. And defining a procedure proc ::tk::mac::ShowPreferences {} { tk_messageBox -type ok -icon info -default ok \ -title "Preferences" \ -message "Here will be a Preference Dialog!" } and compiling it for aqua will fail on the Mac. Probably I have to add the tk::ma...

Incr Tcl /Tk for Tcl 8.4
Hi, I am trying to download incr Tcl and incr Tk for Tcl/Tk 8.4.19. I looked at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/incrtcl/files/%5BIncr%20Tcl_Tk%5D-source/3.4.1/ But only itcl seems to be there. And the CVS doesn't have the 3.4.1 tag. Do you know where I can get incr Tk and hopefully a corresponding iwidgets? Thanks, Andres On 5 Okt., 11:16, Andres Garcia <tclc...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to download incr Tcl and incr Tk for Tcl/Tk 8.4.19. > > I looked at: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/incrtcl/files/%5BIncr%20Tcl_Tk%5D-sou... > > But only itcl seems to be there. And the CVS doesn't have the 3.4.1 > tag. There is no tag for this version. But you can use a date. cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@incrtcl.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/incrtcl -z3 co -P -D 2010-10-28 incrTcl > > Do you know where I can get incr Tk and hopefully a corresponding > iwidgets? Itk is inside itcl sources. cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@incrtcl.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/incrtcl -z3 co -P -D 2010-10-28 iwidgets HTH rene Thanks. Andres >> I am trying to download incr Tcl and incr Tk for Tcl/Tk 8.4.19. >> >> I looked at: >> >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/incrtcl/files/%5BIncr%20Tcl_Tk%5D-sou... >> >> But only itcl seems to be there. And the CVS doesn't have the 3.4.1 >> tag. The released sources for Itcl 3.4.1 were not developed in SF CVS. SF CVS got abandoned during the January...

E.J. Friedman-Hill's Tcl/Tk Course
E.J. Friedman-Hill's Tcl/Tk Course Tcl/Tk Programming in Five Easy Lessons http://www.linbox.com/ucome.rvt/any/doc_distrib/tcltk-8.3.2/TclCourse/ I am unable to open the ppt files that seem very promising. Can anyone see what is the problem with them and can convert/fix so that I can open in the office 2007 or open office ? Thanks Bolega On 24/03/2011 2:51 AM, bolega wrote: > E.J. Friedman-Hill's Tcl/Tk Course > Tcl/Tk Programming in Five Easy Lessons > > http://www.linbox.com/ucome.rvt/any/doc_distrib/tcltk-8.3.2/TclCourse/ > > I am unable to o...

tcl/tk on MacOs
Hi all, Does anyone know if tcl/tk is ported to MacOS 10.5? If so, does it use X windows or coco (Mac windowing system)? Thanks, Mona. Mona wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know if tcl/tk is ported to MacOS 10.5? If so, does it use > X windows or coco (Mac windowing system)? > > Thanks, > Mona. Yes Tcl/Tk is ported to Mac. You can get X11 builds for it, but the normal version is native. The underlying implementation is currently carbon, not cocoa. But there is a Cocoa port of Tk in progress. Bruce Mona wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know if tcl/tk is ported to MacOS 10.5? If so, does it use > X windows or coco (Mac windowing system)? The Tcl/Tk that comes with 10.5 (/usr/bin/tclsh and /usr/bin/wish) is carbon based and is version 8.4.7. An 8.5.* build is freely available from ActiveState (it is also carbon based). -- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Gerald W. Lester | |"The man who fights for his ideals is the man who is alive." - Cervantes| +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...

Tcl/Tk Aqua question
When I do a "pack -side right" the button goes all the over to the right and is partially obscured by the resizer corner. How do I move the button over to see the whole thing? Robert In article <5b49f5aa.0411051031.3da71290@posting.google.com>, sigzero@gmail.com (Robert) wrote: >When I do a "pack -side right" the button goes all the over to the >right and is partially obscured by the resizer corner. How do I move >the button over to see the whole thing? You could pack a frame or empty label to the right of the button to act as a spacer. Or ignore it. Or...

tcl-mmap: A POSIX mmap interface for Tcl. (Tcl package)
This is an announcement for a relatively new Tcl project: tcl-mmap Tcl-mmap is a Tcl interface to the POSIX mmap* system call. It provides a Tcl package that allows Tcl scripts to: 1) Memory map files for improved access efficiency; 2) Share memory between related processes; 3) Easily implement cyclic persistent log files. * See the mmap(2) man page. Platform: Linux/Unix Home page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl-mmap/ Man page: http://tcl-mmap.sourceforge.net/ Author: Alexandros Stergiakis On Sep 3, 11:48=A0am, Alexandros Stergiakis <alst...@gmail.com> wrote: > This is an ...

tcl-syslog: Unix system logging for Tcl (Tcl package)
This is an announcement for a relatively new Tcl project: tcl-syslog Tcl-syslog is a Tcl interface to the *nix syslog service. It provides a Tcl package that allows Tcl scripts to log messages to syslog. Platform: Linux/Unix Home page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl-syslog/ Man page: http://tcl-syslog.sourceforge.net/ Author: Alexandros Stergiakis alsterg ...

Tcl/Tk on embedded (ARM) Linux?
Some time ago I developed an embedded application using Tcl/TK on a touch screen intel/ITX type system, and as the project moves forward, time has come to put it onto an HMI with a proper form factor based upon an ARM touch screen platform ... I have not received the development platform/build environment just yet, I'm looking for anyone with experience ... I figure that once the tool chain is set up, it should be a simple ./configure/Make with the standard Canadian Cross approach ... Any pointers would be appreciated. I'm planning to use 8.6 ... Cheers, Rob. On Aug 25, 5:25=A0am, S...@ControlQ.com wrote: > Some time ago I developed an embedded application using Tcl/TK on a touch > screen intel/ITX type system, and as the project moves forward, time has > come to put it onto an HMI with a proper form factor based upon an ARM > touch screen platform ... > > I have not received the development platform/build environment just yet, > I'm looking for anyone with experience ... I figure that once the tool > chain is set up, it should be a simple ./configure/Make with the standard > Canadian Cross approach ... Any pointers would be appreciated. =A0I'm > planning to use 8.6 ... > Is 8.6 released yet? I use Debian on my ARM based NSLU2 and Debian has tcl 8.5. And Debian supports ARM as a first-class citizen. On Aug 24, 11:25=A0pm, S...@ControlQ.com wrote: > Some time ago I developed an embedded application using Tcl/TK ...

Fedora Linux and Tcl/Tk problems
I have been chasing a problem for the last couple of days which appears to only happen on Fedora Linux 7 (or 9) but not on other Linux distros like Mepis or Knoppix. I've enclosed a code snip from the code which breaks. The relevant sections are annoted with <bob></bob> but the essense is that when writing a binary string using puts -nonewline $fileID $msg to write to a file the result is corrupted even though the length of msg and at least one of the fields in the middle of msg is correct immediately before ... but only on Fedora. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. bob ============== begin code snip ================ #!/usr/bin/tclsh <snip> #============================================= # doReceive - entry point # # This function will be kicked when a SIMPL # message is received #============================================= proc doReceive {} { set fn doReceive set buf [Receive] binary scan $buf i1i1 fromWhom nbytes binary scan $buf x8a$nbytes msg puts stdout [ format "nbytes=%d" $nbytes ] puts stdout [ format "len=%d" [ string length $msg ] ] binary scan $msg x8i1 seq puts stdout [ format "seq=%d" $seq ] <bob> The sequence is correct here. </bob> hndlMsg $fromWhom $msg $nbytes };# end doReceive #============================================= # hndlMsg - entry point # # This function handles the incoming SIMPL # message #============================================= proc hndlMsg {fromWhom msg nbytes}...

question about tcl/tk and c program
In my Tcl/Tk scripts, I want to program different branches according to the result of my C extension procedures. In the C procedure, we usually use such codes as follow: int CountStart(ClientData clientData, Tcl_Interp *interp,int argc, char *argv[]) { ............... ................ interp->result = "end vpstart."; //return TCL_OK; return TCL_ERROR; } In Tcl/Tk scripts, we can use "set ret [count_start $sym]" or "catch {count_start $sym} ret" to call the C procedure CountStart. The variable "ret" is assigned with the string which was saved...

Tcl-fuse: A Tcl interface to the Linux kernel's FUSE subsystem.
This is an announcement for a relatively new Tcl project: tcl-fuse Tcl-fuse is a Tcl extension that exports the full functionality of the underlying FUSE (File-System in User-Space) Linux kernel feature, to the Tcl programming language. It enables: * Export of the Tcl VFS layer (and all the filesystems implemented in it) to external processes, via the FUSE subsystem. * Easy creation of FUSE filesystems, using Tcl. Dependencies: * Tcl 8.5 or greater. * The running kernel is compiled with FUSE support enabled. Tcl-fuse was developed as a GSoC2008 project, with Tcl as the mentoring...

Registration Open for 19th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2012)
19th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2012) http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/ November 12 - 16, 2012 Sessions: National Museum of Health and Medicine Chicago 175 W. Washington Chicago, IL 60602 Rooms: Holiday Inn Chicago Mart Plaza 350 West Mart Center Drive Chicago, Illinois, USA Map/Transport: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204739899073144451536.0004c144222a9036c99f6&msa=0&ll=41.885266,-87.633734&spn=0.008443,0.018818 http://wiki.tcl.tk/28843#pagetoca7e55932 I am pleased to announce that registration for the Conference is now open at http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/reg.html To book a room at the conference hotel at reduced rates please follow the instructions on that page. Note that the offer of reduced rates expires on October 20. Book early. Our schedule can be found at http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2012/schedule.html Conference Committee Clif Flynt Noumena Corp General Chair, Website Admin Andreas Kupries ActiveState Software Inc. Program Chair Cyndy Lilagan Nat. Museum of Health & Medicine, Chicago Site/Facilities Chair Arjen Markus Deltares Brian Griffin Mentor Graphics Donal Fellows University of Manchester Gerald Lester KnG Consulting, LLC Jeffrey Hobbs ActiveState Software Inc. Kevin Kenny GE Global Research Center Larry Virden Mike Doyle ...

tcl/tk menu separator height on Linux
There is a problem with the tcl/tk menu separator height on Linux. The size is too large with the height the same height of an add command menu item. This problem does not appear on Windows since the height of the separator on Windows is smaller than a add command menu item. The large height makes menu separators not useable on Linux. Is there anyway for a developer to adjust the height of menu separators? A review of the site shows that this same question was asked years ago with no response to the problem. The problem involved Windows and the code must have been changed since this no longer a problem on Windows. Submitted by: Vince Darley CVS: latest 8.3.1 OperatingSystem: Windows NT OperatingSystemVersion: 4.0sp5 Synopsis: menu 'separators' take up too much vertical space Bob Sallamack <bsallamack@yahoo.com> writes: >There is a problem with the tcl/tk menu separator height on Linux. >The size is too large with the height the same height of an add >command menu item. This problem does not appear on Windows since the >height of the separator on Windows is smaller than a add command menu >item. The large height makes menu separators not useable on Linux. > >Is there anyway for a developer to adjust the height of menu >separators? > >A review of the site shows that this same question was asked years ago >with no response to the problem. The problem involved Windows and the >code must have been changed since this...

tcl/tk visual gipsy --beginner questions
hi- questions-- 1) are most gui builders similar to place? pack and grid were designed to make it easy before the drag and drop capabilities of visual gipsy were introduced... right? is it ok to use place in visual gipsy and never look back or is there a reason to learn the geometry rules behind pack and grid? 2) going through the tutorial i edited the tutorial2.tcl file. i placed a proc in there so i could run it in an event. i saved it under notepad and it worked. a problem i had was somehow the tcl file compressed taking out lots of whitespace. it reminded me of what i recen...

Tcl/TK + Linux --> confused newbie
I'm contemplating the move from Windows(tm) to linux. I have a copy of the ActiveState CD. I notice *ALL* of the Linux world is covered in 2 files (versions 8.4 and 8.5). Having been pointed to Ubuntu as a suitable distro I have been following a general mailing list and have the impression that some software may cease to run after updating within a distro let alone different kernels. I recently asked about a "lean" install of Ubuntu. Some of the responses were that a Ubuntu/Debian distro might not be what I was looking for and some of the special purpose distro's be considered. What does a "Linux version" of Tcl/Tk assume? Is that the right question? TIA Richard Owlett wrote: > I'm contemplating the move from Windows(tm) to linux. > I have a copy of the ActiveState CD. > I notice *ALL* of the Linux world is covered in 2 files (versions 8.4 > and 8.5). archives actually ? such stuff comes in single file shell-archive excecutables or zip archives. > > Having been pointed to Ubuntu as a suitable distro I have been following > a general mailing list and have the impression that some software may > cease to run after updating within a distro let alone different kernels. Urban legend. avoid red hat. go for a debian derived distribution or take OpenSuse ( rpm derived but not run by perlites and pythonites _and_ has an excellent set of tcl related packages ). > > I recently asked about a "lean"...

a question about combining c++ and tcl/tk please?
Hi all, I am writing some simple code to test c++ with tcl/tk. myData class is trivial too. Compiling and linking the files, I got shared lib hello.so; I could not create an class object in the following code. ********************************** / * trycc.cpp: */ #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <tcl.h> #include <tk.h> #include "myData.h" myData data1; /// not working here, could not load the package if have this line /// if I remove this line, then it worked fine. extern "C" ...

1st Call For Papers
22nd Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2015) http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2015/ October 19 - 23, 2015 Comfort Suites Manassas 7350 Williamson Blvd, 20109 Manassas, Virginia, USA Important Dates: Abstracts and proposals due August 24, 2015 Notification to authors August 31, 2015 WIP and BOF reservations open July 27, 2015 Author materials due September 28, 2015 Tutorials Start October 19, 2015 Conference starts October 21, 2015 Email Contact: tclconference@googlegroups.com Submission of Summaries Tcl/Tk 201...

2nd Call For Papers for the 17th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2010)
[[ Important Changes: More information about registration at the hotel. Our location chair has organized special social activities, both geeky (FermiLab Tour) and cultured (Theatre). See below for more. ]] 17th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference (Tcl'2010) http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2010/ October 11 - 15, 2010 Hilton Suites/Conference Center Chicago/Oakbrook Terrace, Illinois, USA Important Dates: Abstracts and proposals due August 1, 2010 Notification to authors August 15, 2010 WIP and BOF reservations open August 1, 2010 Author materials due October 1, 2010 Tutorials Start October 11, 2010 Conference starts October 13, 2010 Email Contact: tclconference@googlegroups.com Submission of Summaries Tcl/Tk 2010 will be held in Chicago/Oakbrook Terrace, Illinois USA from October 11 - 15, 2010. The program committee is asking for papers and presentation proposals from anyone using or developing with Tcl/Tk (and extensions). Past conferences have seen submissions covering a wide variety of topics including: * Scientific and engineering applications * Industrial controls * Distributed applications and Network Managment * Object oriented extensions to Tcl/Tk * New widgets for Tk * Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk * Tcl/Tk-centric operating environments * Tcl/Tk on small and embedded devices * Medical applications and visualization * Use of different programming paradigms in Tcl/Tk and pr...

Free Tcl App + Libs and TK Extension. Giving something back to the TCL Dev community
Free Tcl App + Libs and TK Extension. Giving something back to the TCL Dev community. After years of TCL Dev I am giving something back to the Dev Tcl Community. You can download NetpackX including source code at http://helihobby.com/netpackx/index.html and also you may download lots of cool aps and libs here: http://helihobby.com/netpackx/Tcl_Tk/tcl_tk.html I hope TCL/TK continues to grow and special thanks to Jeff Hobbs for his support. Regards, Sean - www.HeliHobby.com ...

[Tcl/Tk Community] We need *urgent* advertisement among CS students about Tcl in GSoC 2009
Hi! I'm Tomasz Kosiak. This year I have an honor to officially serve as an administrator for Tcl/Tk Community involvement in Google Summer of Code 2009 program. I would like to ask all broad Tcl community members to help us reach students worldwide and encourage them to apply for a summer scholarship. If you have never heard of Google Summer of Code (aka GSoC) it is a Google, Inc. sponsored initiative to fund aproximately 1000 student scholarship $4500 each for coding during a summer for ideas freely chosen by approved open-source organization. Tcl/Tk community is approved again by Google this year (second time). We seek opportunities to advertise among CS students our GSoC project ideas. That is why I have prepared one slide info about Tcl/Tk and GSoC. This e-mail can be freely forwarded directly to prospective students or to your fellow university teachers so they can show this slide for their students. The goal is to reach students worldwide willing to apply to Tcl/Tk as mentoring organization. See Tcl/Tk GSoC 2009 in a pill at http://tinyurl.com/tcl-gsoc2009 and this is the only URL students shall write down to get started. Official news about Tcl/Tk GSoC 2009 is at http://www.tcl.tk/gsoc/ and http://wiki.tcl.tk/22182. We, Tcl mentors and admins, are really willing to help students prepare their applications. This is what our community is fond of. As last year we *do* plan to act as umbrella organization for other Tcl-related projects like Tk, XOTcl, Expect, AO...

YouTube Playlist: Tcl/Tk Object Oriented Programming Using Itcl (incr Tcl) Lessons
Hi. Like I promised you hours ago.. The playlist in English : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsAEIIjTPIo_1qeuc-rYwk0nxWAM38Dl_ The same playlist in Arabic : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsAEIIjTPIo_91kA-iUz_5XGNmHzivHBG Enjoy! On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 4:04:21 PM UTC+2, Rani Ahmad wrote: > Hi. > > Like I promised you hours ago.. > > The playlist in English : > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsAEIIjTPIo_1qeuc-rYwk0nxWAM38Dl_ > > The same playlist in Arabic : > > https://www.youtube.com/playli...

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