f



UI design for Tk app--PNG's or GIF's for icons?

I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.

I know gif's are more commonly used by Tk developers, likely because
gif's are supported natively and some de-facto Tk stock icons (such as
those that ship with BWidgets) are gif's. Other formats require the Img
extension.

Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications? Or is this,
perhaps, more a matter of the overall application design/look/feel than
a single factor like the image format of the icons? (Looking at Eclipse,
where a huge amount of care has gone into the UI design and where the
icons are gifs, leads me to think that this is the case.)

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
0
kw564 (720)
1/30/2007 3:00:59 PM
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Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> writes:

>Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
>this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
>polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications? Or is this,
>perhaps, more a matter of the overall application design/look/feel than
>a single factor like the image format of the icons? (Looking at Eclipse,
>where a huge amount of care has gone into the UI design and where the
>icons are gifs, leads me to think that this is the case.)

I'm confused here;
GIF and PNG are encoding formats, they represent a fixed (but huge) number
of colours and possibly use a transaprency channel.
Eventually, they are both rendered to the same physical screen and each
with the same number of pixels and resolution.

You may have seen some PNGs smoother than some GIFs, but I don't believe
that that is a property of the *encoding* format, merely the amount of
effort that the icon designers have gone to.  And if one format may be
converted to the other, and vice-versa, where does the definition loss
come from?

-- 
Chirs.
0
chris16 (579)
1/30/2007 3:06:10 PM
Kevin Walzer wrote:
> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
> about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.
> 
> I know gif's are more commonly used by Tk developers, likely because
> gif's are supported natively and some de-facto Tk stock icons (such as
> those that ship with BWidgets) are gif's. Other formats require the Img
> extension.
> 
> Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
> this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
> polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications? Or is this,
> perhaps, more a matter of the overall application design/look/feel than
> a single factor like the image format of the icons? (Looking at Eclipse,
> where a huge amount of care has gone into the UI design and where the
> icons are gifs, leads me to think that this is the case.)
> 

Personally, I don't think it matters at all. No user will likely ever 
know or care what internal format you use for images.


-- 
Bryan Oakley
www.tclscripting.com
0
oakley (2075)
1/30/2007 3:09:47 PM
O/H Kevin Walzer έγραψε:
> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
> about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.
> 
> I know gif's are more commonly used by Tk developers, likely because
> gif's are supported natively and some de-facto Tk stock icons (such as
> those that ship with BWidgets) are gif's. Other formats require the Img
> extension.
> 
> Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
> this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
> polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications? Or is this,
> perhaps, more a matter of the overall application design/look/feel than
> a single factor like the image format of the icons? (Looking at Eclipse,
> where a huge amount of care has gone into the UI design and where the
> icons are gifs, leads me to think that this is the case.)
> 

But seeing from the developer perspective, in my Ellogon application, I 
use a simple scheme: I have created a scheme for naming images (for 
example ITExit is an exit image that can be used in a toolbar, etc.)
Then, I created a directory in my app for storing themes, which can 
contain any number of themes (each one in its subdirectory).

When I want an image, I retrieve it with a function. The Ellogon's one
is GUI_LoadImage:

GUI_LoadImage ITExit

is expected to create (and return) an image named ITExit. What this 
function does, is:

a) Check if the image ITExit already exists. In this case, the functions 
simply returns, as the image has already been created.

b) Check in the directory of the current theme. If an image named 
ITExit.png exists, load it. If this fails, try ITExit.gif Any number of 
suffixes can be added here...

c) If (b) has failed, perform the same actions but in the diretory of 
the default theme

d) Finally, if everything of the above failed, then create an empty 1x1 
image and named it ITExit.

So, with such a procedure, you can mix png & gif images as you wish.
My approach is to always use gif images in the defualt (and uglier) 
theme, and use png images in the rest of the themes. I usually prefer 
the png images, as they don't have the limitation of 256 colours per 
image and can look better, as they can have smoother shadows.

But, in case the img package is not available, my code can go an reuse 
the gifs, and the app at least runs :-)

George
0
petasis (1405)
1/30/2007 3:50:46 PM
Georgios Petasis wrote:
> O/H Kevin Walzer έγραψε:
>> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
>> about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.
>>
>> I know gif's are more commonly used by Tk developers, likely because
>> gif's are supported natively and some de-facto Tk stock icons (such as
>> those that ship with BWidgets) are gif's. Other formats require the Img
>> extension.
>>
>> Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
>> this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
>> polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications? Or is this,
>> perhaps, more a matter of the overall application design/look/feel than
>> a single factor like the image format of the icons? (Looking at Eclipse,
>> where a huge amount of care has gone into the UI design and where the
>> icons are gifs, leads me to think that this is the case.)
>>
> 
> But seeing from the developer perspective, in my Ellogon application, I 
> use a simple scheme: I have created a scheme for naming images (for 
> example ITExit is an exit image that can be used in a toolbar, etc.)
> Then, I created a directory in my app for storing themes, which can 
> contain any number of themes (each one in its subdirectory).
> 
> When I want an image, I retrieve it with a function. The Ellogon's one
> is GUI_LoadImage:
> 
> GUI_LoadImage ITExit
> 
> is expected to create (and return) an image named ITExit. What this 
> function does, is:
> 
> a) Check if the image ITExit already exists. In this case, the functions 
> simply returns, as the image has already been created.
> 
> b) Check in the directory of the current theme. If an image named 
> ITExit.png exists, load it. If this fails, try ITExit.gif Any number of 
> suffixes can be added here...
> 
> c) If (b) has failed, perform the same actions but in the diretory of 
> the default theme
> 
> d) Finally, if everything of the above failed, then create an empty 1x1 
> image and named it ITExit.
> 
> So, with such a procedure, you can mix png & gif images as you wish.
> My approach is to always use gif images in the defualt (and uglier) 
> theme, and use png images in the rest of the themes. I usually prefer 
> the png images, as they don't have the limitation of 256 colours per 
> image and can look better, as they can have smoother shadows.
> 
> But, in case the img package is not available, my code can go an reuse 
> the gifs, and the app at least runs :-)
> 
> George

How big are your icons?
The extra colors and transparency make PNG a better format the GIF for
images in general, but an icon that needs more than 256 colors would
seem to be a rare thing.

Bruce
0
doNOTuse (152)
1/30/2007 4:07:53 PM
Kevin Walzer wrote:
> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
> about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.

PNGs, because they have a variable transparency channel, make much 
better icons.

> I know gif's are more commonly used by Tk developers, likely because
> gif's are supported natively and some de-facto Tk stock icons (such as
> those that ship with BWidgets) are gif's. Other formats require the Img
> extension.

This is the major disadvatange of PNGs in Tk use, but I always make use 
of the Img extension myself.

-- 

   Jeff Hobbs, The Tcl Guy, http://www.activestate.com/
0
jeffh (1291)
1/30/2007 4:27:24 PM
On Jan 30, 7:00 am, Kevin Walzer <k...@codebykevin.com> wrote:

> Other formats require the Img extension.

There is also TkPNG if you just want PNGs.  I know it has some 
problems with 64 bit platforms and warnings with later gcc versions, 
but these are at least all fixed in CVS.  (Jeff Hobbs mentioned he 
"had issues" with TkPNG, but he didn't elaborate.   That was before 
the fixes, though, so I don't know if he's tried the latest CVS yet.)

> Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
> this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
> polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications?

I now use PNGs exclusively in my applications.  No matter how 
meticulously one tries, GIFs look like Windows 3.1 era to me.


0
1/30/2007 4:41:00 PM
On Jan 30, 7:06 am, Chris McDonald <c...@csse.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

> I'm confused here;

Indeed. :)

> You may have seen some PNGs smoother than some GIFs, but I don't believe
> that that is a property of the *encoding* format, merely the amount of
> effort that the icon designers have gone to.

GIFs support only boolean transparency (a pixel is either fully 
transparent or it isn't), so there can't be any real anti-aliasing 
(thus jaggy edges).  PNGs support an alpha channel, which allows any 
pixel to be anywhere between fully transparent and fully opaque, which 
blends much better.  GIFs also only support 256 maximum colors in any 
single image, which makes differences in colors between two pixels 
much more apparent, even if they are similar (thus non-smooth 
shading).  PNGs support up to 65535 colors per *channel*, although Tk 
only supports up to 256 per channel.

0
1/30/2007 4:56:17 PM
michael.kirkham@gmail.com writes:

>On Jan 30, 7:06 am, Chris McDonald <c...@csse.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

>> I'm confused here;

>Indeed. :)

>> You may have seen some PNGs smoother than some GIFs, but I don't believe
>> that that is a property of the *encoding* format, merely the amount of
>> effort that the icon designers have gone to.

>GIFs support only boolean transparency (a pixel is either fully 
>transparent or it isn't), so there can't be any real anti-aliasing 
>(thus jaggy edges).  PNGs support an alpha channel, which allows any 
>pixel to be anywhere between fully transparent and fully opaque, which 
>blends much better.  GIFs also only support 256 maximum colors in any 
>single image, which makes differences in colors between two pixels 
>much more apparent, even if they are similar (thus non-smooth 
>shading).  PNGs support up to 65535 colors per *channel*, although Tk 
>only supports up to 256 per channel.

Thanks for the explanation Michael;  so much to learn, so little time....

-- 
Chris.
0
chris16 (579)
1/30/2007 5:59:25 PM
O/H Bruce Hartweg έγραψε:
> Georgios Petasis wrote:
>> O/H Kevin Walzer έγραψε:
>>> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
>>> about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.
>>>
>>> I know gif's are more commonly used by Tk developers, likely because
>>> gif's are supported natively and some de-facto Tk stock icons (such as
>>> those that ship with BWidgets) are gif's. Other formats require the Img
>>> extension.
>>>
>>> Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
>>> this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
>>> polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications? Or is this,
>>> perhaps, more a matter of the overall application design/look/feel than
>>> a single factor like the image format of the icons? (Looking at Eclipse,
>>> where a huge amount of care has gone into the UI design and where the
>>> icons are gifs, leads me to think that this is the case.)
>>>
>>
>> But seeing from the developer perspective, in my Ellogon application, 
>> I use a simple scheme: I have created a scheme for naming images (for 
>> example ITExit is an exit image that can be used in a toolbar, etc.)
>> Then, I created a directory in my app for storing themes, which can 
>> contain any number of themes (each one in its subdirectory).
>>
>> When I want an image, I retrieve it with a function. The Ellogon's one
>> is GUI_LoadImage:
>>
>> GUI_LoadImage ITExit
>>
>> is expected to create (and return) an image named ITExit. What this 
>> function does, is:
>>
>> a) Check if the image ITExit already exists. In this case, the 
>> functions simply returns, as the image has already been created.
>>
>> b) Check in the directory of the current theme. If an image named 
>> ITExit.png exists, load it. If this fails, try ITExit.gif Any number 
>> of suffixes can be added here...
>>
>> c) If (b) has failed, perform the same actions but in the diretory of 
>> the default theme
>>
>> d) Finally, if everything of the above failed, then create an empty 
>> 1x1 image and named it ITExit.
>>
>> So, with such a procedure, you can mix png & gif images as you wish.
>> My approach is to always use gif images in the defualt (and uglier) 
>> theme, and use png images in the rest of the themes. I usually prefer 
>> the png images, as they don't have the limitation of 256 colours per 
>> image and can look better, as they can have smoother shadows.
>>
>> But, in case the img package is not available, my code can go an reuse 
>> the gifs, and the app at least runs :-)
>>
>> George
> 
> How big are your icons?
> The extra colors and transparency make PNG a better format the GIF for
> images in general, but an icon that needs more than 256 colors would
> seem to be a rare thing.
> 
> Bruce

Well, I use the same mechanism for loading any image in the app.
But I usually use icons from the KDE crystal svg theme (under LGPL)
which usually use shadows, needing usually more than 256 colours...

George
0
petasis (1405)
1/30/2007 11:21:35 PM
michael.kirkham@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 30, 7:00 am, Kevin Walzer <k...@codebykevin.com> wrote:

>> Some say that png's look smoother than gifs, which can be jaggy, and
>> this may subtly contribute to user perceptions about an application's
>> polish. So: does anyone use png's in their applications?
> 
> I now use PNGs exclusively in my applications.  No matter how 
> meticulously one tries, GIFs look like Windows 3.1 era to me.
> 

I guess I'm going back and forth on this mainly because I've spent a
huge amount of time on the icons of my applications...too much time. I
eventually started using the Tango icons, which are very nice,
sophisticated and contemporary. They have that look whether they are
GIF's or PNG's.

I can sometimes tell when an application uses GIF's, but I have to look
closely. Most of the time I don't notice at all. I'm more inclined to
notice if an icon is "out-of-place" or dated; a lot of icons in GIF
format are actually plagued by this syndrome, in my view. (Hence the
Windows 3.1 feeling.)

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
0
kw564 (720)
1/31/2007 4:56:23 AM
Georgios Petasis wrote:
> 
> Well, I use the same mechanism for loading any image in the app.
> But I usually use icons from the KDE crystal svg theme (under LGPL)
> which usually use shadows, needing usually more than 256 colours...
> 

Am I missing something? - the KDE toolbar icons are 16x16 so cannot possibly
require more than 256 colours. Even a 32x32 desktop icon has only 1024
pixels so 256 colours should be more than adequate.

ian

0
ruffrecords (178)
1/31/2007 9:10:24 AM
Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> wrote:
> I hope this isn't too off-topic. I'm curious as to what others think
> about the question of gif or png files for icons in a Tk application.

I don't think there's ever a need to use GIF over PNG.

If transparencies are your thing, PNG does it better. If a limited palette 
is what you need, it does that well. Plus you get good data compression
in the format, which GIF generally doesn't provide (or at least not in
any implimentations I've seen).

The Img library support has worked well enough for me. I haven't had a 
need to try TkPNG.

0
hfrarg3 (215)
1/31/2007 7:36:33 PM
Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> wrote:
> I eventually started using the Tango icons, which are very nice,
> sophisticated and contemporary. They have that look whether they are
> GIF's or PNG's.

After reading this, I had a good long look at using the icons from this
project in my own apps.

http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project

The license is the real kicker, unfortunately. 

On first look, it seems to be a standard BSD type license with an 
attribution requirement (which is sort of what I assumed it would be, 
if you're using them in commercial apps) and it does explicitly give
a nod to commercial use, but, it seems the Creative Commons 
"Attribution-ShareAlike license" has a bit more in common with
the GPL than BSD: there seems to be a requirement that anything using
these icons should also be released under this license.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/legalcode

It's rather a shame, as the icons are excellent and the project's goal
of a standard attractive icon set is a good one.

(Just thought I ought to mention it in case this comes around to bite
you on the arse sometime later on down the track.)

0
hfrarg3 (215)
2/2/2007 4:41:53 AM
Synic wrote:
> Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> wrote:
> 
>>I eventually started using the Tango icons, which are very nice,
>>sophisticated and contemporary. They have that look whether they are
>>GIF's or PNG's.
> 
> 
> After reading this, I had a good long look at using the icons from this
> project in my own apps.
> 
> http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project
> 
> The license is the real kicker, unfortunately. 
> 
> On first look, it seems to be a standard BSD type license with an 
> attribution requirement (which is sort of what I assumed it would be, 
> if you're using them in commercial apps) and it does explicitly give
> a nod to commercial use, but, it seems the Creative Commons 
> "Attribution-ShareAlike license" has a bit more in common with
> the GPL than BSD: there seems to be a requirement that anything using
> these icons should also be released under this license.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_License
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/legalcode
> 
> It's rather a shame, as the icons are excellent and the project's goal
> of a standard attractive icon set is a good one.
> 
> (Just thought I ought to mention it in case this comes around to bite
> you on the arse sometime later on down the track.)
> 
 From the license page:
     *   Attribution.
	You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor.
     * Share Alike.
	If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the
	resulting work only under a license identical to this one.
     *
     * For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the license terms of this work.
     * Any of these conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder.

I would understand this as:
if you change or add any icons you will have to distribute the whole set under the same license
and with proper attribution.
if you use these icons you will have to attribute your source and educate the
user about the attached license.
I don't think your app will get "license poisoning" by use of this iconset.

ianal
uwe

0
2/2/2007 9:00:14 AM
Uwe Klein <uwe_klein_habertwedt@t-online.de> wrote:
> I would understand this as:
> if you change or add any icons you will have to distribute the whole 
> set under the same license and with proper attribution.
> if you use these icons you will have to attribute your source and 
> educate the user about the attached license.

In isolation, I'd be inclined to agree with that reading. I'd actually
popped some icons into my apps for testing purposes on that basis. However, 
these lines from the homepage forced me to reread more conservatively:

 : What is the Tango Desktop Project?

 : The Tango Desktop Project exists to help create a consistent graphical
 : user interface experience for free and Open Source software.

 Source: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project

And:

 : What is the Tango Desktop Project?

 : Our front page states, "The Tango Desktop Project exists to create a
 : consistent user experience for Open Source software." That's a pretty
 : good explanation. Between the front page and this FAQ, you should
 : hopefully get a pretty good idea what we're set out to accomplish. 

 Source: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions

> I don't think your app will get "license poisoning" by use of this iconset.

While I'm not a lawyer either, given they're pushing the Open Source
software goal pretty heavily in their promo material, I don't think it's
really be worth the risk at this stage.

It would be a good thing if they made their documentation a bit more
explicit and clear about the issue, either way.

0
hfrarg3 (215)
2/2/2007 11:24:57 AM
Synic wrote:

> 
>  Source: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions
> 
>> I don't think your app will get "license poisoning" by use of this iconset.
> 
> While I'm not a lawyer either, given they're pushing the Open Source
> software goal pretty heavily in their promo material, I don't think it's
> really be worth the risk at this stage.
> 
> It would be a good thing if they made their documentation a bit more
> explicit and clear about the issue, either way.
> 

If they wanted to force or encourage applications using the icons to be
open-source, they would have licensed them under the GPL or (at a
minimum) LGPL. The choice of Creative Commons was quite deliberate, and
the clause of the CC that they use explicitly allows commercial use of
the icons, with proper attribution.


-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
0
kw564 (720)
2/2/2007 2:53:05 PM
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http://karpo.org/images/Dunno/Ruby.jpg Nvidia's GeForce 6800 (NV40) 'Nalu' demo consists of 300,000 polygons. very very impressive shit! ATI's Radeon X800 (R420) 'Ruby' demo consists of only 80,000 polygons. however it is also rendering a background with other elements. closer to what would be in an actual game. now, console gamers: keep in mind, whatever ATI has been able to come up with at this point (re: the R420 / Radeon X800) is a stepping stone to what they'll be able to have in 2005 for Xbox Next, and in 2006 for GCNext :) On 14 Apr 2004 21:33:15 -0700, nvidianv55@mail.com (NV55) wrote: >http://karpo.org/images/Dunno/Ruby.jpg > >Nvidia's GeForce 6800 (NV40) 'Nalu' demo consists of 300,000 polygons. >very very impressive shit! > >ATI's Radeon X800 (R420) 'Ruby' demo consists of only 80,000 polygons. >however it is also rendering a background with other elements. closer >to what would be in an actual game. > >now, console gamers: keep in mind, whatever ATI has been able to come >up with at this point (re: the R420 / Radeon X800) is a stepping stone >to what they'll be able to have in 2005 for Xbox Next, and in 2006 for >GCNext :) Wow............. I am impressed !! Must ask for an advanced payment of my Social Security to buy these consoles. Both should sink like rocks if not 100%backward compatible with existing non-Next software. Also, a huge marketing problem for n...

jpg's and png's
I've just discovered that I can't save my output as jpg or png. I know that I need to get the gd library, but how much work is involved in getting gnuplot to interface with it? I am running: G N U P L O T Version 4.0 patchlevel 0 last modified Thu Apr 15 14:44:22 CEST 2004 System: Darwin 7.9.0 on an imac G5. --thelma Thelma Roslyn Lubkin wrote: > I've just discovered that I can't save my output as jpg or png. > I know that I need to get the gd library, but how much work is > involved in getting gnuplot to interface with it? That depends entirely on you and the surrounding system. Installing libraries into a running system and getting them to actually work can be ridiculously simple if you (and the system) know what you're doing, or it can be a nightmare. The only sure way to find out is to actually try it. ...

JSP, Servlet's, EJB's, Bean's?
I am currently developing an application where I call command line programs and capture the output. This is fine. What I am doing is creating a web interface for these programs using JSP/Servlets. What I would like to do is be able to call these programs. Using buttons or something, and dumping the output into a text area. I have a servlet that I generates the output that I need. My question is How do I get that output into the textarea? When I call a new function I want to be able to append the text to the end of the text area. I was told in another group that I would need a...

Tcl/Tk's component can auto resize while adjust the main frame's size?
In Tcl/Tk if I adjust the main frame's size, the component in the main frame can auto resize by the main frame? such as used Layout Manager in Java? I had try the packer manager and grid manager , but It only control the componment's position in the frame but can't control it size. Who can tell me ? Macro wrote: > In Tcl/Tk if I adjust the main frame's size, > the component in the main frame can auto resize by the main frame? > such as used Layout Manager in Java? > I had try the packer manager and grid manager , > but It only control the componment's position in the frame but can't > control it size. > Who can tell me ? This is something that Tk handles extremely well (*much* better than Swing). Use the -fill/-expand options to [pack] or the -sticky/-weight options to [grid] to specify which widgets should expand. e.g., using grid: # Create the widgets text .t -yscrollcommand [list .vsb set] \ -xscrollcommand [list .hsb set] \ -wrap none scrollbar .vsb -orient vertical \ -command [list .t yview] scrollbar .hsb -orient horizontal \ -command [list .y xview] # Add them to the grid manager, using -sticky # to say in which directions each should expand grid .t -row 0 -column 0 -sticky nsew grid .vsb -row 0 -column 1 -sticky ns grid .hsb -row 1 -column 0 -sticky ew # Change the row and column weights so that the text # widget expands before the scrollbars grid rowconfigure . 0 -weight 1 grid c...

The "Tipping Point" for app's, ALL app's ?
tipping point - ************** noun The point at which a series of small ineffective changes acquires enough pressure or importance to cause a larger, more significant change. The point at which the buildup of minor incidents reaches a level that causes someone to do something they had formerly resisted. ---------------------------------------------------- Lots of Mac users, myself included, are impatiently waiting for the "tipping point" to be reached in lots of app's. ("MacSpeech Dictate" in particular) The point where the app's are _immediately...

Free math' app' threatens commercial math' app's
For Mac math' buffs, a new FREE open-source math' app' called SAGE will be available for free shortly, which claims to beat expensive commercial software like Mathematica which costs $2,500 Some team of math' experts at University of Washington are developing the app' Supposedly SAGE has already won awards in open competition at some world-wide math' conference. <http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=38459> Mark- In article <noneof-AC775C.02292008122007@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, Mark Conrad <noneof@urbusiness.invalid...

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! No-- it's WONDER
Yes, Wonder Chimpie-- strange primate from another planet!! Knows everything about IT (with the exception of a proxy server and how to kill file). All bow down when he comes around! Thank you, Wonder Chimpie, for saving us from ourselves! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services. The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header is unverified. ...

It's a Bird, it's a plane, no! umm, it's Super Boid?
Hey Guys, I have something actually working that seems allot like Swarm Technology to me. The system features many smaller parts that seem allot like "Boids" (or "Agents"). I'd be tempted to call them "Dorts" because they get thrown straight at the target and fire on my machine at about 2,000 per second (in 1.9). Not very "natural" - one would not want to have mosquitoes able to do that :) There's no "in-flight" communication between the Boids - their life cycle involves trying to attain values for a list of required attributes and a docking with a "HelperClass" (see Ruleby also) for any in-depth calculations. They make their assertions, record all the results, and wait to be debriefed after they have landed. So are these things Boids or not? For example: They are fired sequentially so they are not buzzing around sending signals to each other. However, if a Boid is assigned a lower pass number it can "leave information" for a Boids fired on later passes - so there is inter_boidal_communications :) - but only after their "flight" / period of activity. It's taken me almost 3 years to get this all this far along Right now, however, I can go on localhost and author 10 new real almost guaranteed to work "Boids" easily in an hour.(When I started and did these by hand they could take a full day.) Mostly all I have to do now is make multiple choices. (Lots of Ruby ...

EA treats it's employee's worse than it's customers!
Just more reasons not to by Anything from EA http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/ http://www.igda.org/qol/open_letter.php On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:30:51 GMT, "Bill" <mrspamnobillo@nospam.bom> wrote: >Just more reasons not to by Anything from EA > >http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/ > >http://www.igda.org/qol/open_letter.php I would love to start boycotting EA because of their poor treatment of staff, but I am already boycotting them for making so many crap games they are actually damaging the industry and our art. "Bill" <mrsp...

How do you cool this thing? It's all the user's fault!!! He's a moron!!!
Well, looks like the adepts are trying to convince the masses burning hot macbook pros are the norm http://www.amazon.com/review/R1B7U99O7KWW0I/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encoding=UTF8&cdPage=1&asin=B003GSLU3E&newContentNum=13&store=pc&newContentID=Mx3FQEIJIGB90CN#Mx4BCYXL68C6DD hp apparently is not alone with its freaking hot envy 17 In article <111e260e-af04-435c-b61b-f4dda7c5fdad@8g2000prt.googlegroups.com>, AD <isquat@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, looks like the adepts are trying to convince the masses burning > hot > macbook pros are the norm > > http://www.amazon.com/review/R1B7U99O7KWW0I/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encodin > g=UTF8&cdPage=1&asin=B003GSLU3E&newContentNum=13&store=pc&newContentID=Mx3FQEI > JIGB90CN#Mx4BCYXL68C6DD > > hp apparently is not alone with its freaking hot envy 17 What do you think can be done? There is an inherent relationship between computing power and heat. Advances in technology may change the formula, but the relationship will remain. -- "The iPhone doesn't have a speaker phone" -- "I checked very carefully" -- "I checked Apple's web pages" -- Edwin on the iPhone "It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix." -- "It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix' (Edwin on Mac OS X) '[The IBM PC]...

Graffiti 2
Under Graffiti 2, I have an impossible time getting capital k's, t's and i's using the 'traditional input' method. I have marginally greater success if I write on the screen. Ultimately, more often than not I end up having to resort to the keyboard entry mode. Are there any tips or tricks anyone can offer to assist? Harold Harold M. Goldner wrote: > Under Graffiti 2, I have an impossible time getting capital k's, t's and > i's using the 'traditional input' method. I have marginally greater > success if I write on the screen. ...

What's the correllation between File I/O's and Disk I/O's
Hi We have a client that is getting poor response times. But it's not consistant. One person may have no problems one day while another is having huge delays, and the next day it's vice versa. The system we have does a lot of data entry. Depending on the data entered, a validation against files is required. We've done a lot of investigation into this, and one thing that we have noticed is that the number of Disk I/O's increases much faster than the File I/O's requested. One thing noticed was they had 9 disks, and disk 1 was going to 70-80% utilisation (WRKDSKSTS), which in turn caused the other 8 disks to increase in utilisation. The iSeries is not reporting damaged objects, files or access paths. Example File I/O's Disk I/O's Action 1: 155 127 Action 2: 230 478 Action 3: 285 400 Action 4: 340 377 Action 5: 420 1220 Action 6: 480 2720 Looking at the above example Actions 1-4 look OK to us (afte review the program source for Read/Writes and updates). But Actions 5 & 6 have much more Disk I/O than we'd expect. Should there be some sort of correllation between File I/O's and Disk I/O's? What governs Disk I/O is it the OS? Is there some configuration changes we might be able to make to help alleviate the problem? TIA John two things immediate. straspbal will balance the files by usage across disks more evenly some files are mostly found on...

How would you rate your dentist's responsiveness?..., the dental office's customer service?... or your dental clinic's responsiveness?..., your dental clinic's customer service?...
Depending on where you get dental healthcare, how would you rate your dentist's responsiveness?..., the dental office's customer service?... or your dental clinic's responsiveness?..., your dental clinic's customer service?... depending on where you get dental healthcare. meant for sci.med.dentistry ! ...

Prob getting '1's and '0's
Hi all =) I have a var named Data_Bin which is in <10614*8char> containing binary '1's and '0's. eg Data_Bin = 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 .... ... I tried 2 methods, Method 1: aa = []; for i=1:84912 aa = [aa, Data_Bin(i)]; end Result: It gave me a 1*1 matrix but if I transpose the result, it'll give me a col vector. Method 2: aa = []; for i=1:84912 aa (1, i) = Data_Bin(i); end Result: It gave me a row vector of [49 49 49 49 ...] How do I get a row vector, 1*84912, from Data_Bin?? Thank you. "yingmu h...

S*S'-> make a code program of DIFF (S) for S to excute expression:S*S, ( S=vector, S'=dS/dt). ideas to all?
hello everyone, now i need a help of ideas for a program style from all to find :S*S'. here we would not be able to use directly Diff( S) cuz of error of unsame size of S & diff( S). soo i dlove to get any code PROGRAM STYLEs for function S' ( dS/dt) to Find S*S', with S: vector, for example as a begining input: t=0:10; S=2*t.^3 +3*t; Now make a code program to DEFINE S' by ALGORITHM of MATH. dear all, my question going well for understanding?? iam waiting for all. ( hey, give a trial into the world of Math of Algorithm for function & diveritative)-) ...

Idiot's Guide To Removing VS2008's Configuration's Folders?
Hi Folks: It took some time to compose this message, and Google told me: We were unable to post your message Your session has expired, please try again later. So if this is the second time you're seeing this, my appologies. Developing on XP Pro, VS 2008 Pro, using C++.. I've recently converted from developing on XP Home to XP Pro I was expecting a more secure environment, and it is more restrictive, in terms of access rights. I've created a second account, after "administrator", with admin rights, called "...

Prob's using Albert Kallal's SetDefaultPrinter on some OS's
I'm using Albert Kallall's code to set printers in A97. I find that on some machines, the code locks up and on others, it does not. I would like to overcome this and was wondering about the experiences of others who attempt to set default printer in A97? I have an app running on an XP home edition box fine. Same app running on XP Professional fails when SetDefaultPrinter() is called. I can post more of the code, which may be found at http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/msaccess/printch97.zip but I did not wish to clutter the post with too much that may distract from the question...

SSG's Carrier's at War 2007
After 3 days in front of this game I'm happy to say that my initial doubts have been overcome and I'd like to thank the guys at SSG and Matrix for encouraging me to stick with it - and to Mr G. here too for a very important historical perspective. After a disappointment about a lack of print friendly manual (I succumbed to printing with the color backdrops) and the fact the game is crashing sporadically to DT (the boys at SSG are on to it) I'm willing to summarise the game thus: - Just like Battle's in Normandy, SSG is replicating history pretty closely with Carrie...

Web resources about - UI design for Tk app--PNG's or GIF's for icons? - comp.lang.tcl

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