I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook 
500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't 
mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  I've checked google, but it 
seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or 
not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this 
year.

I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support, 
and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect 
the device to continue functioning?

Thanks. 

There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is 
treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years, but 
I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of 10-year 
old laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be "like new", 
or it can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.


Chris wrote:
> I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook 
> 500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't 
> mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  I've checked google, but it 
> seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or 
> not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this 
> year.
> 
> I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support, 
> and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect 
> the device to continue functioning?
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> 

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message 
news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is 
> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years, but I 
> buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of 10-year old 
> laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be "like new", or it 
> can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.

Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation without 
needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm very forgiving on 
my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop them, and I do read care 
instructions in the manual. :-P 

"Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:464989e1$0$15135$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
>> I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop
>> (Omnibook 500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a
>> laptop last?  I don't mean battery life, but the hardware itself. 
>> I've checked google, but it seems alot of articles consider
>> operational life on the basis of whether or not it's hardware can
>> handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this year.
>>
>> I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to
>> support, and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i
>> realistically expect the device to continue functioning?
>>
>> Thanks.

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is
> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years,
> but I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of
> 10-year old laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be
> "like new", or it can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.

1) Well my Epson PX-8 (CP/M 2.2) was built in 1984 and it still runs.

2) Sharp PC-4501 (MS-DOS) still works (1989)

3) Toshiba T1950CS (Windows 3.1) won't turn on for about 7 years now 
(1994)

4) Toshiba 2595XDVD (Windows 98SE) still works (1999)

5) Toshiba 2595XDVD (Windows 2000) still works, but stopped reading DVD, 
CD is still ok (1999)

6) Gateway MX6124 (Windows XP) still works (2006)

So out of the past 23 years, only 1 out of 6 laptops died on me. And the 
two older ones doesn't use lamps for the display, so who knows how long 
they will run. Manufactures use MTBF (mean time before faulure) ratings 
for major components. Something that the customer almost never sees. 
Like the display lamps generally are expected to last about 25,000 
hours. That is roughly 4 years and being on 24/7.

What I have done with this Gateway, is connect it up to an external LCD 
monitor, keyboard, and mouse. And use it on a desk like a desktop. And 
just by removing a couple of cables, I'm portable. So I have the best of 
both worlds. And this should extend the life of the laptop. Well in 
theory anyway.

Oh and that Toshiba T1950CS had a design flaw. This laptop like my older 
2, doesn't sport a fan. But this model should have had one. As they 
cooked themselves to death. One would be very hard pressed to find one 
of these in working condition today.

-- 
Bill 

MORE THAN ten years.  And it's not uncommon, LOTS of laptops will go 
that long if not physically abused.  But very few 10 year old computers 
will run much in the way of software that is still of interest.


Chris wrote:
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message 
> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is 
>> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years, but I 
>> buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of 10-year old 
>> laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be "like new", or it 
>> can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
> 
> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation without 
> needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm very forgiving on 
> my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop them, and I do read care 
> instructions in the manual. :-P 
> 
> 

On Tue, 15 May 2007 06:22:26 -0400, "Chris"
<rrufiange@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook 
>500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't 
>mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  I've checked google, but it 
>seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or 
>not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this 
>year.
>
>I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support, 
>and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect 
>the device to continue functioning?
>
>Thanks. 
>
One of the most probable mechanical failure modes in some laptops
is the hinge structure. For some reason the manufacturers don't
design the hinge structure well enough to withstand the stiffness
of the hinges, and the plastic case components will fatigue and
break away from the hinges. Look for any early signs of this
failure. A slight distortion in the screen image near one of the
hinges as the lid is repositioned is usually an early indicator
of hinge failure. Also look for small cracks in the case plastic
near the hinges.

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4649d5be$0$15205$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> MORE THAN ten years.  And it's not uncommon, LOTS of laptops will go
> that long if not physically abused.  But very few 10 year old
> computers will run much in the way of software that is still of
> interest.

Oh I don't know about interest, as my 1984 Epson PX-8 (23 years old) is 
still very useful. It sports just a tape, RAM and ROM drives. So it 
takes vibrations in autos very well. And it is about as useful today as 
it was back then. Except the date can't be set past 12/31/1999. LOL

-- 
Bill 

In comp.laptops Chris <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message 
> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is 
>> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years, but I 
>> buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of 10-year old 
>> laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be "like new", or it 
>> can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
> 
> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation without 
> needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm very forgiving on 
> my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop them, and I do read care 
> instructions in the manual. :-P 
> 
> 
I have an old Dell CPi D300 I take with me when I travel. It's
probably at least 10 years old. I bought it used in '98 or '99. 
I've replaced the disk drive because the original was only 3 GB, 
and last year the keyboard when several of the keys stopped working.

	Jerry

On Tue, 15 May 2007 06:22:26 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:

>wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't 
>mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  
>
>if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support, 
>and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically 
>expect the device to continue functioning?

I doubt anyone could give you a generla life expectancy.
That depends very much on the environment where it is used, how 
much it is run,  and obviously the original quality.

I have one laptop that is now on its it 13th year, but not much used
lately. It cost me abt 3500 Euros when new, which was cheap compared
to to the best Thinkpads at aboy three times the price.

I also have several Thinkpads that are 7 and 8 years old. They are
used a lot, carried around frequently, and still sparkle !  

Lars
Stockholm

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message 
news:4649d5be$0$15205$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> MORE THAN ten years.  And it's not uncommon, LOTS of laptops will go that 
> long if not physically abused.  But very few 10 year old computers will 
> run much in the way of software that is still of interest.

That's what I figured, thanks. Seems like all of the sources I've been 
linked to online when mentioning a laptop's "operational life" aren't 
mentioning hardware, but judge their results by whether or not it can 
upgrade to another OS. I plan to use included software (designed to use Win 
2K, and can install XP), and get any unincluded programs while available. 
Upgrades aren't much of a concern for me, but being able to repair/replace 
components if they wear out over time are. Most likely it's batteries in 
that area. I've got desktops I've had for upwards of 8 to 10 years without 
replacing anything. Just wondering if I can expect the same or similar 
performance out of laptop components.

Thanks alot. 

On May 15, 8:02 am, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:
> "Chris" <rrufia...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:464989e1$0$15135$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
>
> >> I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop
> >> (Omnibook 500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a
> >> laptop last?  I don't mean battery life, but the hardware itself.
> >> I've checked google, but it seems alot of articles consider
> >> operational life on the basis of whether or not it's hardware can
> >> handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this year.
>
> >> I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to
> >> support, and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i
> >> realistically expect the device to continue functioning?
>
> >> Thanks.
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
>
> > There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is
> > treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years,
> > but I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of
> > 10-year old laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be
> > "like new", or it can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
>
> 1) Well my Epson PX-8 (CP/M 2.2) was built in 1984 and it still runs.
>
> 2) Sharp PC-4501 (MS-DOS) still works (1989)
>
> 3) Toshiba T1950CS (Windows 3.1) won't turn on for about 7 years now
> (1994)
>
> 4) Toshiba 2595XDVD (Windows 98SE) still works (1999)
>
> 5) Toshiba 2595XDVD (Windows 2000) still works, but stopped reading DVD,
> CD is still ok (1999)
>
Try cleaning the lens with isopropyl alcohol and a q-tip.

"Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:464c72c4$0$19431$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> ... I've got desktops I've had
> for upwards of 8 to 10 years without replacing anything. Just
> wondering if I can expect the same or similar performance out of
> laptop components.
> Thanks alot.

One of mine 23 years old and another is 18 years old. But I don't think 
the quality of todays laptops are quite high standard as these.

-- 
Bill 

<paulmd@efn.org> wrote in message
news:1179468764.186422.19220@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> On May 15, 8:02 am, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:
>> 1) Well my Epson PX-8 (CP/M 2.2) was built in 1984 and it still runs.
>>
>> 2) Sharp PC-4501 (MS-DOS) still works (1989)
>>
>> 3) Toshiba T1950CS (Windows 3.1) won't turn on for about 7 years now
>> (1994)
>>
>> 4) Toshiba 2595XDVD (Windows 98SE) still works (1999)
>>
>> 5) Toshiba 2595XDVD (Windows 2000) still works, but stopped reading
>> DVD, CD is still ok (1999)
>>
> Try cleaning the lens with isopropyl alcohol and a q-tip.

Thanks, the first thing I tried :)

-- 
Bill 

On Tue, 15 May 2007 06:22:26 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:

>I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook 
>500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't 
>mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  I've checked google, but it 
>seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or 
>not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this 
>year.
>
>I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support, 
>and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect 
>the device to continue functioning?

In my experience, the hard drive will probably be the first thing to
go simply because it relies on a motor and moving parts to function.
Thankfully, these are pretty cheap for laptops now; I replaced one in
a Toshiba Satellite that now functions as our home's second laptop for
under $200 labor and everything. 

The one item that's still expensive in laptops is the motherboard
because they're often specialized from one make to another. 

On 15/05/2007 11:22, Chris wrote:
> I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook
> 500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't
> mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  I've checked google, but it
> seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or
> not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this
> year.
>
> I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support,
> and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect
> the device to continue functioning?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
There are so many factors, its like asking how long a car should last... 
it all depends who makes them. Obviously you would expect a Benz to out 
last a cheapy Toyota... but then you never know.

My personal experience is that Macs last a lot longer because all the 
components are carefully chosen and designed by themselves, not that 
other manufacturers don't but... its just my personal feeling that Apple 
has put a lot more effort... their product design is evident.

PCs on the other hand, I would say Sony comes top, then HP, Dell, and 
the Acer last.

Computers depending on how they were designed made, and treated can 
often last 5+ years easily.
Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:

>
>"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message 
>news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is 
>> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years, but I 
>> buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of 10-year old 
>> laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be "like new", or it 
>> can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
>
>Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation without 
>needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm very forgiving on 
>my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop them, and I do read care 
>instructions in the manual. :-P 
>

In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
(still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.
--
Charlie Hoffpauir

Everything is what it is because it got that way....D'Arcy Thompson

On 3/31/2010 4:31 PM, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:

> In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
> had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
> 30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
> working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
> (still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
> same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
> give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
> wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.

  I've got a Compaq Presario R3000 that is about 6 years old now, and 
other than not being able to run off batteries anymore, it works 
perfectly fine.  And I even ran over it with my truck once (by accident).

  My HP DV6308's video chip failed after about two years and I had to 
purchase a used MB off eBay to replace it.

  I have a desktop that I just retired 6 months ago.  The MB was about 8 
years old, and the HD's were maybe 7 years old.  Worked perfectly fine, 
and, indeed, I'm considering making it into a cheap media center.

  While I don't particularly baby my machines, I don't needlessly abuse 
them either... but it's still luck of the draw in a lot of cases.

A couple things to consider in addition to my earlier post.

The cooling systems in laptops use fans and heat exchangers (liquid 
filled radiators ...).  These WILL become clogged with dirt, hair and 
dust.  WILL, not "may".  How long depends on the environment; dirty 
environments, environments were people smoke, and environments with cats 
(yes, cats) are the worst.  Sometimes they will clog completely in 6 
months, sometimes it takes 2-4 years.  In servicing laptops, it is not 
uncommon to pull a "dustball" of 1 to 4 cubic inches out hair, dust and 
dirt of the fan and heat exchanger.  It can get bad enough to stop the 
fan blades from turning.  This WILL actually destroy the laptop if the 
overall capability of the cooling system gets reduced beyond a certain 
point.

Another factor is that in their efforts to reduce both weight and cost, 
modern consumer laptops are "flimsy".  They flex (the entire laptop, and 
with it the motherboard) enough so that the BGA chips (the chipset and 
video chips, among others) may have their BGA connections to the 
motherboard broken.  This is a common problem in some models of Toshiba 
laptops (A100, A135 in particular).  The symptom is "motherboard failure".

A final factor is that many laptops simply don't pay enough attention to 
cooling the CHIPSET and (if separate) the Video processor.  These chips 
then also overheat and end up failing.  Another common problem in later 
laptops, which also manifests itself as "motherboard failure".  This 
failure mode can be a consequence of the dust/dirt/hair problem 
described above, since, in the end, the [usually] single internal fan is 
really cooling everything, even though it's nominally the "CPU fan".

Unfortunately, on most laptops, cleaning the cooling system requires 
major (MAJOR) disassembly, although I have seen some models [Dell] that 
actually had a door on the bottom explicitly for this purpose.  But, on 
many models, you actually have to remove the motherboard from the 
computer, because the fan and heatsink are on the bottom of the 
motherboard and there is no door in the bottom case for access.


Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message 
>> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
 >>
>>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is 
>>> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years, but I 
>>> buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of 10-year old 
>>> laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can be "like new", or it 
>>> can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
 >>
>> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation without 
>> needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm very forgiving on 
>> my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop them, and I do read care 
>> instructions in the manual. :-P 
>>
> 
> In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
> had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
> 30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
> working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
> (still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
> same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
> give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.
> 
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
> wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.
> --
> Charlie Hoffpauir
> 
> Everything is what it is because it got that way....D'Arcy Thompson

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:36:54 -0400, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>the BGA chips (the chipset and 
>video chips, among others) may have their BGA connections to the 
>motherboard broken.

I believe the old-fashioned term for this type of problem is "chip
creap". Don't hear many people use the term nowadays. Eventuall the
connections loosen to the point where electrical contact is broken
completely. It happens on printed circuit boards on central-heating
boilers due to the adjacent heat source, but also on any pcb that gets
too warm.

In news:28f7r5tl998dorinf745p32p4tuhu8ct7f@4ax.com,
Charlie Hoffpauir typed on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:31:13 -0500:
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is
>>> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years,
>>> but I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of
>>> 10-year old laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can
>>> be "like new", or it can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
>>
>> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation
>> without needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm
>> very forgiving on my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop
>> them, and I do read care instructions in the manual. :-P
>
> In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
> had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
> 30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
> working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
> (still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
> same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
> give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
> wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.
> --
> Charlie Hoffpauir

I didn't see the original or Barry's reply. But I see yours Charlie, 
thanks!

I bought my first laptop back in '84 and it still works just like it did 
when new. Same with my second laptop I bought in '88. The one I bought 
in '94 didn't have a fan and it cooked itself in 5 years. I bought two 
more in '99 and they are still working just fine. One the screen is 
about half of the brightness when new though.

In 2006, I bought this Gateway MX6124 refurbished. And everything works 
except the lid switch never worked since I got it. But I don't care if 
it works or not. I bought two more MX6124 used off of eBay with some 
problems to use as spare parts (whenever the day comes that I will need 
any).

I also bought a Gateway M465e on eBay that didn't work from the AC. I 
gambled and bought a docking station and it works fine getting AC power 
from there. So I really don't care if the power jack works or not.

I also bought five netbooks back in '08. Two I bought broken just to use 
as parts. And they are working just fine too. There isn't much that can 
go wrong with them really. The backlight is lit by LEDs and not by a 
cold cathode florescent lamp. And there aren't any moving parts except 
the fan. And these models don't really need a fan and some have removed 
them without any problems reported. And since the Celeron CPUs are under 
clocked, the CPUs don't get anywhere near hot anyway.

So I have had very good luck with my laptops. And I find laptops in 
general are far more reliable compared to desktops. Although I stopped 
buying desktops back in 2001. And I believe since then, they too are 
more reliable than they once have been. Heck back in the 80's and 90's, 
memory chips failed a lot. But those same companies have long gone out 
of business as well. It is true of early computer manufactures too. Some 
of them were really poorly designed from the start. They either improved 
or went out of business.

Since I am not fond of Vista, Windows 7, or even Linux, I am planning on 
sticking to the last year manufactures supported Windows XP laptops. 
Meaning I like 2006 models the best. That is why I have so many of them. 
As I am hoping they will hold me for another decade or two in the 
future. And why not, my first laptop is 26 years old and it still works 
just fine. And that other one is 22 years old and it is doing just fine 
too. So it certainly can be done. ;-)

-- 
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2 

In news:hp0tbt$gin$1@news.eternal-september.org,
Barry Watzman typed on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:36:54 -0400:
> A couple things to consider in addition to my earlier post.
>
> The cooling systems in laptops use fans and heat exchangers (liquid
> filled radiators ...).  These WILL become clogged with dirt, hair and
> dust.  WILL, not "may".  How long depends on the environment; dirty
> environments, environments were people smoke, and environments with
> cats (yes, cats) are the worst.  Sometimes they will clog completely
> in 6 months, sometimes it takes 2-4 years.  In servicing laptops, it
> is not uncommon to pull a "dustball" of 1 to 4 cubic inches out hair,
> dust and dirt of the fan and heat exchanger.  It can get bad enough
> to stop the fan blades from turning.  This WILL actually destroy the
> laptop if the overall capability of the cooling system gets reduced
> beyond a certain point.

I oddly don't have that problem. I am not sure why, but I believe adding 
longer rear feet does wonders to keep the laptop fans from sucking up 
all of the dust like a mini vac. I don't have any pets anymore since 
about 15 years now. But my laptops didn't have fans 15 years ago either. 
For example, this laptop is four years old and I use it virtually 
everyday. Yet there are no signs of dust or dirt in there yet.

> Another factor is that in their efforts to reduce both weight and
> cost, modern consumer laptops are "flimsy".  They flex (the entire
> laptop, and with it the motherboard) enough so that the BGA chips
> (the chipset and video chips, among others) may have their BGA
> connections to the motherboard broken.  This is a common problem in
> some models of Toshiba laptops (A100, A135 in particular).  The
> symptom is "motherboard failure".

Manufacturing solid motherboards is an art. Some I am sure may work for 
hundreds of years (if the components last that long). While some, 
something went wrong during the manufacturing process or the people 
manufacturing them just doesn't have the knack for them quite right yet.

> A final factor is that many laptops simply don't pay enough attention
> to cooling the CHIPSET and (if separate) the Video processor.  These
> chips then also overheat and end up failing.  Another common problem
> in later laptops, which also manifests itself as "motherboard
> failure".  This failure mode can be a consequence of the
> dust/dirt/hair problem described above, since, in the end, the 
> [usually] single internal fan
> is really cooling everything, even though it's nominally the "CPU
> fan".

Well it is mostly the fault of video chip manufactures trying out spec 
their competition. And they use their same high powered video chips they 
use in desktops and throw them inside of a tight spaced laptop. I 
wouldn't buy one of those high graphic powered laptops. As you are just 
asking for problems.

> Unfortunately, on most laptops, cleaning the cooling system requires
> major (MAJOR) disassembly, although I have seen some models [Dell]
> that actually had a door on the bottom explicitly for this purpose. 
> But, on many models, you actually have to remove the motherboard from
> the computer, because the fan and heatsink are on the bottom of the
> motherboard and there is no door in the bottom case for access.

One other thing I like about those Gateway MX and M models is the trap 
door for the heatsink and fan. So easy to remove, replace, and/or clean. 
Also easy to swap out the CPU as well.

-- 
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2 

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 10:08:13 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>In news:28f7r5tl998dorinf745p32p4tuhu8ct7f@4ax.com,
>Charlie Hoffpauir typed on Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:31:13 -0500:
>> On Tue, 15 May 2007 10:23:07 -0400, "Chris" <rrufiange@cfl.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4649af11$0$16665$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> There is no answer to this question; it depends on how the laptop is
>>>> treated and used.  I have seen people destroy laptops in 1-2 years,
>>>> but I buy and sell a few older models, and I have lots (dozens) of
>>>> 10-year old laptops.  It's a lot like a car; a 4-year old car can
>>>> be "like new", or it can be a wreck.  It depends a lot on the owner.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Well, what's the longest you've seen one maintain operation
>>> without needing to replace parts (not including the battery)? I'm
>>> very forgiving on my electronics. I don't bump, scratch, and drop
>>> them, and I do read care instructions in the manual. :-P
>>
>> In addition to what Barry said, it also depends on the laptop. I've
>> had 3 Thinkpads. My first one, a 365XD, still works. The 2nd one (an A
>> 30) quit just after the warranty expired. The 3rd one, a T42 is still
>> working but the internal circuity to charge the battery quit working
>> (still runs on AC tho). And I've treated them all pretty much the
>> same. Since I really only use a laptop when visiting the library, I
>> give them really light usage. They all still "look" like new.
>>
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you got 10 years use.... but I also
>> wouldn't be surprised to hear that it died after 12 months.
>> --
>> Charlie Hoffpauir
>
>I didn't see the original or Barry's reply. But I see yours Charlie, 
>thanks!
>
>I bought my first laptop back in '84 and it still works just like it did 
>when new. Same with my second laptop I bought in '88. The one I bought 
>in '94 didn't have a fan and it cooked itself in 5 years. I bought two 
>more in '99 and they are still working just fine. One the screen is 
>about half of the brightness when new though.
>
>In 2006, I bought this Gateway MX6124 refurbished. And everything works 
>except the lid switch never worked since I got it. But I don't care if 
>it works or not. I bought two more MX6124 used off of eBay with some 
>problems to use as spare parts (whenever the day comes that I will need 
>any).
>
>I also bought a Gateway M465e on eBay that didn't work from the AC. I 
>gambled and bought a docking station and it works fine getting AC power 
>from there. So I really don't care if the power jack works or not.
>
>I also bought five netbooks back in '08. Two I bought broken just to use 
>as parts. And they are working just fine too. There isn't much that can 
>go wrong with them really. The backlight is lit by LEDs and not by a 
>cold cathode florescent lamp. And there aren't any moving parts except 
>the fan. And these models don't really need a fan and some have removed 
>them without any problems reported. And since the Celeron CPUs are under 
>clocked, the CPUs don't get anywhere near hot anyway.
>
>So I have had very good luck with my laptops. And I find laptops in 
>general are far more reliable compared to desktops. Although I stopped 
>buying desktops back in 2001. And I believe since then, they too are 
>more reliable than they once have been. Heck back in the 80's and 90's, 
>memory chips failed a lot. But those same companies have long gone out 
>of business as well. It is true of early computer manufactures too. Some 
>of them were really poorly designed from the start. They either improved 
>or went out of business.
>
>Since I am not fond of Vista, Windows 7, or even Linux, I am planning on 
>sticking to the last year manufactures supported Windows XP laptops. 
>Meaning I like 2006 models the best. That is why I have so many of them. 
>As I am hoping they will hold me for another decade or two in the 
>future. And why not, my first laptop is 26 years old and it still works 
>just fine. And that other one is 22 years old and it is doing just fine 
>too. So it certainly can be done. ;-)

Bill,

I just happened to re-read this thread, and I now see that the OP
posted in 2007! It showed up in my news reader (Agent) as an unread
post, so I replied to it, unaware that it was really an old post.
However, it looks like a long dead issue, so I'm afraid I just
regurgitated an old issue.
--
Charlie Hoffpauir

Everything is what it is because it got that way....D'Arcy Thompson

On 4/1/2010 10:08 AM, BillW50 wrote:

> So I have had very good luck with my laptops. And I find laptops in
> general are far more reliable compared to desktops. Although I stopped
> buying desktops back in 2001. And I believe since then, they too are
> more reliable than they once have been. Heck back in the 80's and 90's,
> memory chips failed a lot. But those same companies have long gone out
> of business as well. It is true of early computer manufactures too. Some
> of them were really poorly designed from the start. They either improved
> or went out of business.

  I've got a Commodore 64 purchased around 1989, and an Amiga 4000 with 
expanded memory purchased around '93ish..  Both are still running 
strong.  Well, the Amiga is a good auxiliary retro gaming system (the PC 
versions of most games around that time simply are not as pretty) that I 
use regularly.  The C-64 gets booted up twice a year or so these days.  :)

  I actually know somebody who found an old Kaypro in his father's 
basement, and the darn thing still worked.

  I still think its 50% luck, as with my HP laptop.  The other 50% is, 
as mentioned up-thread, not letting them get filled with dust and 
dander.  Or cigarette smoke.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:31:46 +0100, Christopher Choi
<chutsu@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 15/05/2007 11:22, Chris wrote:
>> I've been reading an operating manual for a "used" model laptop (Omnibook
>> 500, by HP), and wondering how long PHYSICALLY can a laptop last?  I don't
>> mean battery life, but the hardware itself.  I've checked google, but it
>> seems alot of articles consider operational life on the basis of whether or
>> not it's hardware can handle an OS upgrade to whatever is available this
>> year.
>>
>> I'm wondering, if I am comfortable with the OS it was designed to support,
>> and am happy with the hardware specs, how long can i realistically expect
>> the device to continue functioning?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>There are so many factors, its like asking how long a car should last... 
>it all depends who makes them. Obviously you would expect a Benz to out 
>last a cheapy Toyota... but then you never know.
>
>My personal experience is that Macs last a lot longer because all the 
>components are carefully chosen and designed by themselves, not that 
>other manufacturers don't but... its just my personal feeling that Apple 
>has put a lot more effort... their product design is evident.
>
>PCs on the other hand, I would say Sony comes top, then HP, Dell, and 
>the Acer last.
>
>Computers depending on how they were designed made, and treated can 
>often last 5+ years easily.
>Chris



I don't think the question gives enough information or he needs to
define "last".   Case in poiint, I had to replace one keyboard on a
laptop for about $13 (parts).   Does that mean the laptop did not
last?   Perhaps he should clarify the question to mean from a
financial point of view or how long the parts may be available.
Otherwise I have to agree with your first sentence.