f



"Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service" misleading the Sendmail by BODY=7BIT in "mail from"

Hello.

I ran into a situation where the Sendmail deceived by the Microsoft
ESMTP MAIL Service. MS ESMTP Service send to Sendmail

MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru> SIZE=12345 AUTH=<> BODY=7BIT

but message is not 7BIT. It contain

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--2f2da5fd4e757bb09dce3cc4fd3fda88"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

in header, but

----59b9b79d39a2fcdcd7600d2d20592b5a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

in some parts and real text in utf8. Sendmail loses one bit. :-(

A second big problem - a huge E-Mail providers such as GMail or Mail.ru
ignore the "BODY=7BIT" and messages accepted propertly. I find it difficult
to prove that the problem should be resolved by the message sender or the
postmaster of "Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service".

Any idea ?

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/18/2011 1:42:50 PM
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On 02/18/11 07:42, Sergey wrote:
> I ran into a situation where the Sendmail deceived by the Microsoft
> ESMTP MAIL Service. MS ESMTP Service send to Sendmail

I think that's better worded as Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service is lying 
about being 7-bit.

> MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru>  SIZE=12345 AUTH=<>  BODY=7BIT
>
> but message is not 7BIT. It contain
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--2f2da5fd4e757bb09dce3cc4fd3fda88"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> in header, but
>
> ----59b9b79d39a2fcdcd7600d2d20592b5a
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> in some parts and real text in utf8. Sendmail loses one bit. :-(

I don't think the utf-8 is so much a problem as the fact that the 
encoding is 8bit.

At least it's my (mis)understanding that the utf-8 could be base64 
encoded and still be fine.

> A second big problem - a huge E-Mail providers such as GMail or Mail.ru
> ignore the "BODY=7BIT" and messages accepted propertly. I find it difficult
> to prove that the problem should be resolved by the message sender or the
> postmaster of "Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service".

Ah the joys of having to find the problem, and prove to others where it 
is to convince them that it is not your responsibility.

> Any idea ?

Stick to your guns.

Be very careful about how you word things.

Look for other products that may have a problem to use them as examples 
to build your case.

I'd also be tempted to capture network traffic and extract the full 
message source drawing attention to what you presented her and the bytes 
that are in error.

You might have some luck submitting a bug report to Microsoft directly 
as it is in their and their customers best interest for them to patch 
the product.

Good luck.



Grant. . . .
0
Grant
2/18/2011 9:13:10 PM
Grant Taylor wrote:

>> I ran into a situation where the Sendmail deceived by the Microsoft
>> ESMTP MAIL Service. MS ESMTP Service send to Sendmail
> 
> I think that's better worded as Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service is lying
> about being 7-bit.

The message is ambiguous:

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--2f2da5fd4e757bb09dce3cc4fd3fda88"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Content-Transfer-Encoding" is not needed for "Content-Type: multipart/mixed"
Postmaster can refer to it and to shift the problem to the sender.

>> in some parts and real text in utf8. Sendmail loses one bit. :-(
> 
> I don't think the utf-8 is so much a problem as the fact that the
> encoding is 8bit.

Yes, of course.

> At least it's my (mis)understanding that the utf-8 could be base64
> encoded and still be fine.

Rightly. But I can not convince the sender about a week. And it is russian's
government structure with bad support. :-(

> You might have some luck submitting a bug report to Microsoft directly
> as it is in their and their customers best interest for them to patch
> the product.

Microsoft may refer to "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" also, as and
postmaster...
:-(

> Good luck.

Thanks...

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/18/2011 9:43:11 PM
Sergey wrote:

> MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru> SIZE=12345 AUTH=<> BODY=7BIT

For Claus Aßmann: 
Can you give your opinion about it ? I could use your vote for
convincing the tech support of "gosuslugi.ru" possible...

Or can Sendmail ignore BODY=7BIT may be ?

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/19/2011 10:38:13 AM
Sergey  wrote:
> Sergey wrote:

> > MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru> SIZE=12345 AUTH=<> BODY=7BIT

> For Claus Aßmann: 

Cool characters...

> Can you give your opinion about it ? I could use your vote for

There's no need to give an opinion, just check the RFCs.

RFC 1652                SMTP 8bit-MIMEtransport                July 1994
   
2.  Framework for the 8bit MIME Transport Extension
....
      (4)  one optional parameter using the keyword BODY is added to
           the MAIL FROM command.  The value associated with this
           parameter is a keyword indicating whether a 7bit message
           (in strict compliance with [1]) or a MIME message (in
           strict compliance with [3]) with arbitrary octet content
           is being sent. The syntax of the value is as follows,
           using the ABNF notation of [2]:
     
                body-value ::= "7BIT" / "8BITMIME"
.....
   [1] Postel, J., "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol", STD 10, RFC 821,
       USC/Information Sciences Institute, August 1982.

RFC 821 defines a 7 bit transport only, so if a client declares
BODY=7BIT it must not send 8 bit characters.

Even the latest RFC (5321) says:
....
   transport only.  An originating SMTP client that has not successfully
   negotiated an appropriate extension with a particular server (see the
   next paragraph) MUST NOT transmit messages with information in the   
                   ^^^^^^^^
   high-order bit of octets.  If such messages are transmitted in
....

0
Claus
2/19/2011 6:31:49 PM
Claus Aßmann wrote:

>> > MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru> SIZE=12345 AUTH=<> BODY=7BIT
> 
>> For Claus Aßmann:
> 
> Cool characters...

Hm... I see right one utf8 character in my message (on news server) but
two other in your reply...

>> Can you give your opinion about it ? I could use your vote for
> 
> There's no need to give an opinion, just check the RFCs.
> 
> RFC 1652                SMTP 8bit-MIMEtransport                July 1994
>    
> 2.  Framework for the 8bit MIME Transport Extension

Thanks. I've already found it and you confirmed what I found is correct.

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/19/2011 7:19:57 PM
Sergey <a_s_y@sama.ru> wrote:
> Claus Aßmann wrote:
>
>>> > MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru> SIZE=12345 AUTH=<> BODY=7BIT
>> 
>>> For Claus Aßmann:
>> 
>> Cool characters...
>
> Hm... I see right one utf8 character in my message (on news server) but
> two other in your reply...

Welcome to UTF-8 usenet wars :-)

Some news readers/people "ignore" proper declaration of utf-8 charset in
headers of usenet posts.

-- 
[pl>en Andrew] Andrzej A. Filip : anfi@onet.eu : Andrzej.Filip@gmail.com
If you are afraid of loneliness, don't marry.
  -- Anton Chekhov
0
Andrzej
2/19/2011 8:59:39 PM
In article <ijlt14$e3s$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Sergey  <a_s_y@sama.ru> wrote:
>Hello.
>
>I ran into a situation where the Sendmail deceived by the Microsoft
>ESMTP MAIL Service. MS ESMTP Service send to Sendmail
>
>MAIL FROM:<system@gosuslugi.ru> SIZE=12345 AUTH=<> BODY=7BIT
>
>but message is not 7BIT. It contain
>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--2f2da5fd4e757bb09dce3cc4fd3fda88"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>in header, but
>
>----59b9b79d39a2fcdcd7600d2d20592b5a
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>in some parts and real text in utf8. Sendmail loses one bit. :-(
>
>A second big problem - a huge E-Mail providers such as GMail or Mail.ru
>ignore the "BODY=7BIT" and messages accepted propertly. I find it difficult
>to prove that the problem should be resolved by the message sender or the
>postmaster of "Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service".
>
>Any idea ?

Sender _declared_ it to be 7-bit in the headers.

If sender violated their own declaration, there's nothing anybody can do
to fix it, other than the originating system.

It's nobody else's fault if somebody _believes_ what the sender said.


0
bonomi
2/20/2011 5:52:29 AM
Robert Bonomi wrote:

>>A second big problem - a huge E-Mail providers such as GMail or Mail.ru
>>ignore the "BODY=7BIT" and messages accepted propertly. I find it difficult
>>to prove that the problem should be resolved by the message sender or the
>>postmaster of "Microsoft ESMTP MAIL Service".
>>
>>Any idea ?
> 
> Sender declared it to be 7-bit in the headers.
> 
> If sender violated their own declaration, there's nothing anybody can do
> to fix it, other than the originating system.

This is obvious. But my question about how to prove this when GMail and some 
other may ignore RFC 1652... I needed of creative ideas for fighting with
impenetrable tech support. ;-)

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/20/2011 7:04:21 PM
Claus A�mann wrote:

> Even the latest RFC (5321) says:
> ...
> transport only. �An originating SMTP client that has not successfully
> negotiated an appropriate extension with a particular server (see the
> next paragraph) MUST NOT transmit messages with information in the
>                 ^^^^^^^^
> high-order bit of octets. �If such messages are transmitted in
> ...

By the way, here is described loose behaviour. SMTP sender, "Microsoft
ESMTP MAIL Service" absolutely wrong according this RFC, but 3 alternatives
described for receiver:

.....
   high-order bit of octets.  If such messages are transmitted in
   violation of this rule, receiving SMTP servers MAY clear the high-
   order bit or reject the message as invalid.  In general, a relay SMTP
   SHOULD assume that the message content it has received is valid and,
   assuming that the envelope permits doing so, relay it without
   inspecting that content.  Of course, if the content is mislabeled and
.....

1. clear the high-order bit (Sendmail's behaviour)
2. reject the message
3. relay it without inspecting that content (GMail's and some other)

And the recommended option N3... But the RFC 1652 refers to the 821 only.

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/20/2011 10:29:34 PM
Andrzej Adam Filip wrote:

>> Hm... I see right one utf8 character in my message (on news server) but
>> two other in your reply...
> 
> Welcome to UTF-8 usenet wars :-)

It's strange, but symbol "�" survives with iso-8859-1 :-)
Ok, I will be use iso-8859-1 instead of utf8 for this group. 

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/20/2011 10:39:00 PM
Sergey <a_s_y@sama.ru> wrote:
> Andrzej Adam Filip wrote:
>
>>> Hm... I see right one utf8 character in my message (on news server) but
>>> two other in your reply...
>> 
>> Welcome to UTF-8 usenet wars :-)
>
> It's strange, but symbol "ß" survives with iso-8859-1 :-)
> Ok, I will be use iso-8859-1 instead of utf8 for this group. 

Why do you want some people to stay unaware about deficiencies of news
readers they use?

I prefer nothing between ASCII and UTF-8.

-- 
[pl>en Andrew] Andrzej A. Filip : anfi@onet.eu : Andrzej.Filip@gmail.com
Of all men's miseries, the bitterest is this:
to know so much and have control over nothing.
  -- Herodotus
0
Andrzej
2/20/2011 10:58:25 PM
In article <ijs4kb$l6l$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Sergey  <a_s_y@sama.ru> wrote:
>Claus A�mann wrote:
>
>> Even the latest RFC (5321) says:
>> ...
>> transport only. �An originating SMTP client that has not successfully
>> negotiated an appropriate extension with a particular server (see the
>> next paragraph) MUST NOT transmit messages with information in the
>>                 ^^^^^^^^
>> high-order bit of octets. �If such messages are transmitted in
>> ...
>
>By the way, here is described loose behaviour. SMTP sender, "Microsoft
>ESMTP MAIL Service" absolutely wrong according this RFC, but 3 alternatives
>described for receiver:
>
>....
>   high-order bit of octets.  If such messages are transmitted in
>   violation of this rule, receiving SMTP servers MAY clear the high-
>   order bit or reject the message as invalid.  In general, a relay SMTP
>   SHOULD assume that the message content it has received is valid and,
>   assuming that the envelope permits doing so, relay it without
>   inspecting that content.  Of course, if the content is mislabeled and
>....
>
>1. clear the high-order bit (Sendmail's behaviour)
>2. reject the message
>3. relay it without inspecting that content (GMail's and some other)
>
>And the recommended option N3... But the RFC 1652 refers to the 821 only.

Option 3 is recommended for a *RELAY* smtp. The SMTP server at the 
destination is -not- a 'relay', but the 'receiving' one.

There is *no* recommended behavior for the receiving SMTP in the language
quoted.  The receiving SMTP can accept the 'in violation' message w/o
alteration, or strip the high bit, or reject it.  All are _equally_
acceptable behavior per RFC 5321



0
bonomi
2/21/2011 7:42:25 PM
Robert Bonomi wrote:

>>1. clear the high-order bit (Sendmail's behaviour)
>>2. reject the message
>>3. relay it without inspecting that content (GMail's and some other)
>>
>>And the recommended option N3... But the RFC 1652 refers to the 821
>>only. 
> 
> Option 3 is recommended for a *RELAY* smtp. The SMTP server at the 
> destination is -not- a 'relay', but the 'receiving' one.

Two SMTP servers communicate: sender and receiver. Sender's behavior
described here: "An originating SMTP client that has not successfully
negotiated an appropriate extension with a particular server (see the
next paragraph) MUST NOT transmit messages with information in the
high-order bit of octets". Obviously everything else belongs to the
second server, is not it ?

-- 
Regards, Sergey.
0
Sergey
2/22/2011 6:36:25 AM
In article <ijvlh9$v3d$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Sergey  <a_s_y@sama.ru> wrote:
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>>>1. clear the high-order bit (Sendmail's behaviour)
>>>2. reject the message
>>>3. relay it without inspecting that content (GMail's and some other)
>>>
>>>And the recommended option N3... But the RFC 1652 refers to the 821
>>>only. 
>> 
>> Option 3 is recommended for a *RELAY* smtp. The SMTP server at the 
>> destination is -not- a 'relay', but the 'receiving' one.
>
>Two SMTP servers communicate:

TECHNICALLY incorect.  A SMTP client communicates with an SMTP server.
A "mail server" may function as both an SMTP client (for sending mail),
and an SMTP server (for receiving mail).

That said, I'll take your remark to mean "two machines running SMTP
sofware communicate:"
>                              sender and receiver. Sender's behavior
>described here: "An originating SMTP client that has not successfully
>negotiated an appropriate extension with a particular server (see the
>next paragraph) MUST NOT transmit messages with information in the
>high-order bit of octets". Obviously everything else belongs to the
>second server, is not it ?

In a word, "no".  <grin>

There are up to _three_ kinds of hosts involved in transport of e-mail
from the sender to the recipient:
   1) an originating mail client -- where the message is first formed for
      SMTP transport.
   2) a delivering mail server -- where the message exits from SMTP 
      transport, usually for local deliver.
   3) a RELAY host -- one that _forwards_ messages from an SMTP client
      (to which it acts as an SMTP server) to an SMTP server (to which
      it acts as an SMTP client).


Note well that the relay host, _when_functioning_as_an_SMTP_client_ is *NOT*
an 'originating SMTP client'.   If it were so considered, there would be
no need for the 'originating' qualifier anywhere. 'SMTP client' would be 
sufficient, and the 'originating' qualifier would be redundant.

A _relay_host_ *SHOULD*NOT* inspect the message body, nor do anything based
on what it finds there.  If the sending client designated  the message as
"7bit", the relay host SHOULD repeat that designation to the server it forwards
to -- *regardless* of actual message content.  Additionally, the relay host
SHOULD NOT modify the message content to conform to the declaration.

The delivering SMTP server *CAN* reject, strip to 7bit, or 'pass as is', as
_it_ ses fit.  The RFC cited imposes no recommended behavior on -this-
instance of an SMTP server.


0
bonomi
2/26/2011 6:53:42 AM
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I just bought a new computer and I re-installed Eudora Light on my new computer. But when I open Eudora, the "In", "Out" and "Trash" links are not on the left side of the screen the way they were on my old computer. How can I get these links back on the left side of the screen? Thank you. On 25 Mar 2007 09:49:22 -0700, "abx" <abfunex@yahoo.com> wrote: >I just bought a new computer and I re-installed Eudora Light on my new >computer. But when I open Eudora, the "In", "Out" and "Trash" links >are ...

Does it need a ";" at the very after of "if" and "for"
write code like: int main(void) { int a=10; if(a<20) {} } Compiler ok on dev-cpp . don't we have to add a ";" after if statement? marsarden said: > write code like: > > int main(void) > { > int a=10; > if(a<20) > {} > } > > Compiler ok on dev-cpp . don't we have to add a ";" after if > statement? The syntax for 'if' is: if(expression) statement There is no semicolon after the ) but before the statement. The statement is either a normal statement (which can be empty), ending in a semicolon:- if(expr) ...

Sendmail authentificates, client cann still send mails with fake "Mail From:" tag
hello, i've just finished my first AUTH sendmail configuration, client cann authentificate himself via LOGIN/PLAIN with TLS. I've noticed though that sendmail doesn't pose any restraints regarding the mail from: tag. lets say my domain is test.de, my loginname ist alex now i cand send mails from arbitrary name@ test.de...actually from arbitrary name @ arbitrary domain :) Am i missing something here ? what i would like is: user authentificates -> he is allowed to send mail only with the prior stipulated address (his address) Thanks! Regards, Alex alexThor wrote: > hell...

mail::sendmail (SOMETIMES) get "bad file descriptor" error when mail not local
I have a leased Linux box that I installed mail::Sendmail on using CPAN I'm using a perl script to send mail. I have a domain on that server and I get my personel email at that address. The script works fine when I am using my own email address as the recipient, but when I try to send to any other domain I get, for example, "sendmail failure sending to somebody@otherdomain.org Bad file descriptor" I don't have this problem with by Linux box at home and I thought I configured it the same way. (I just let CPAN do it's thing) I noticed that there is a soft link to qmail on the remote server, but it was my understanding that mail::Sendmail is independant of other mail programs. Is there some configuration file I can change to solve this problem? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Dave Dave Roberts wrote: > I have a leased Linux box that I installed mail::Sendmail on using > CPAN > > I'm using a perl script to send mail. I have a domain on that server > and I get my personel email at that address. > > The script works fine when I am using my own email address as the > recipient, but when I try to send to any other domain I get, for > example, > > "sendmail failure sending to somebody@otherdomain.org Bad file > descriptor" > > > I don't have this problem with by Linux box at home and I thought I > configured it the same way. (I just let CPAN do it's thing) > > I not...

No more "Subject", "Date/Time" or "Size" headers/buttons in new mail (and other) folders
All of a sudden they disappeared: the "Subject", "Date/Time" or "Size" headers/buttons in my new mail (and other) folder preview are gone! Just the sender remains, and when new mail arrives it 'disappears' somewhere in the alphabetically sorted list in stead of ending up on top in the date-sorted list. I use V4.31 on XP, sofar I never had any major issues. PMail sometimes decides for a disabled SMTP server without warning when I'm on the road, but that's it. This one is a major issue. It has rendered my email almost unusable. All I can...

"mail" and "mailbydest" statistics not recorded to statrep
It seems R6 doesn't record the results of a "mail" and "mailbydest" statistic filter? All the other stats seem to record but not the mail ones. I've tried 602CF1 and 602CF2 and neither record those stats into statrep as they should. ...

Mail.app
If I select several messages in Mail (v 6.0 in Mountain Lion), the batch of selected messages animates into a "stack" on top of the message viewing area. Nifty animation much like that on iOS. If I then move that collection of messages, say, into another mail folder, usually that's that - the "stack" zips off down into the folder and is gone and my mail view is back to normal. Sometimes - and this seems to happen about once a day - after I drag the batch of messages over, the image of the stack remains. Mail continues to otherwise work normally - if I select a new message, it's right there, visible - under the "stack" image. I can scroll up and down - the stack sits there obscuring my view of the otherwise normally operating message viewer. This gets fixed if I close the viewer window and then open a new one. Anyone else encounter this bug? ...

E-mail Aliases in "Mail"
Suppose that my on-line store, mystore.com, sell hats and gloves. The company that hosts my site has assigned the e-mail address (and user name) mystore@mystore.com to this account. But they will forward mail addressed to anynamewhatsoever@mystore.com; in other words, they allow me to use an unlimited number of e-mail aliases. That way, a person who wants to enquire about a hat can e-mail hats@mystore.com and a person who is interested in gloves can e-mail gloves@mystore.com. Filters in "Mail" will sort the messages into the appropriate mailboxes for my convenience. The problem is t...

Apple Mail "no mail" sound
When I check my mail manually and I have no mail, I get a high-pitched shrieky alert sound. I have no idea where it came from, because the sound isn't even in my list of sounds (System Preferences/Sound). I can get rid of it by unchecking "play sounds for other mail actions" in Mail preferences, but I'd prefer not to. It seems like this sound started happening after I installed Skype. But Skype doesn't have that sound in its sound choices either. Anyone have a clue? In article <nosredna-61A454.22043129012006@news.isp.giganews.com>, nosredna <nosredna@susc...

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