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sendmail simple mailing list problem

I have set up sendmail to use my ISP's outgoing mail server as a relay
for mail from my server using the instructions I found here

http://www.leo.org/~barner/freebsd/articles/mailsetup/article.html

I use dyndns so that everyone can find myserver (as
myserver.dyndns.net). I can send and receive mail on my server.

I am also using a simple mailing list with about 15 subscribers that I
set up using a mail alias
(i.e. with the line 'mylist: : include:/usr/home/me/lists/mylist.txt')

I can send mail to anyone on the list by sending mail to
mylist@myserver.dyndns.net from any of my email accounts and from my
account at my ISP (call it myaccount@myISP.com). Other users have also
successfully sent mail to the list. However, a subset of the users
also use my ISP and their mail to the list gets bounced by the ISP
server.

The error message in the bounced email is

553 You are not authorized to send mail as <otheruser@myisp.com>
501 5.6.0 Data format error

So <myaccount@myisp.com> and <myotheraccount@mywork.com> can send mail
to the list but not <otheruser@myisp.com>.

Any suggestions on how to fix this?

Thanks

Alan
0
11/21/2004 5:37:06 PM
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Alan Curtis wrote:
> So <myaccount@myisp.com> and <myotheraccount@mywork.com> can send mail
> to the list but not <otheruser@myisp.com>.
> Any suggestions on how to fix this?

Would it be an option to set up the mailinglist in the traditional 
not-just-a-single-alias style, in particular, rewriting the envelope?

owner-LIST:	whoever.deals@with.administrative.issues
LIST-request:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
LIST-requests:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
LIST:		"|/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -fLIST-request LIST-out"
LIST-out:	:include:/wherever/you/keep/the/list/of/subscribers

Regards,
								J. Bern
0
bern (418)
11/23/2004 5:48:16 PM
Jochen Bern <bern@ti.uni-trier.de> wrote in message news:<cnvt51$78p$1@news.kamp.net>...
> Would it be an option to set up the mailinglist in the traditional 
> not-just-a-single-alias style, in particular, rewriting the envelope?
> 
> owner-LIST:	whoever.deals@with.administrative.issues
> LIST-request:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
> LIST-requests:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
> LIST:		"|/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -fLIST-request LIST-out"
> LIST-out:	:include:/wherever/you/keep/the/list/of/subscribers
> 

Jochen,

Thanks for the reply.

If I have this right, your solution would change the From: field of
outgoing messages to the list as LIST-request. This would indeed be a
solution to the problem.

However, I would prefer messages to the list to have a From: field
with the sender's email address not the list's address. My ISP blocks
messages that I send with a From: address of another subscriber (to My
ISP) but does not block any other From: address.

I found a solution that uses genericstable to map @myisp.com to
list@myserver.com, which just changes the From: field for other
subscribers to MyISP but leaves everyone elses From: field unchanged.
I was just wondering whether there is a way to fool the system and get
everyones From: field to pass through.

By the way,  does the  '-oi' flag mean 'ignore dots'. If so what does
that mean?


Thanks again

Alan
0
11/24/2004 12:36:54 AM
Alan Curtis wrote:
> If I have this right, your solution would change the From: field of
> outgoing messages to the list as LIST-request. This would indeed be a
> solution to the problem.

No, actually it changes the From_ (a.k.a. "Envelope From" a.k.a. SMTP 
MAIL FROM:), not the From: (a.k.a. "Header From"). I.e., the mails, as 
redistributed by your server and after being received by an MTA that 
saves the envelope data in the usual pseudo headers, would read:

Return-Path: <LIST-request@your.server>
X-Envelope-To: <subscriber@where.ever>
From: Original Sender <someone@some.where>
To: List Submission Address <LIST@your.server>

(whereas, with your current implementation, the Return-Path: would also 
be <someone@some.where> .)

> However, I would prefer messages to the list to have a From: field
> with the sender's email address not the list's address. My ISP blocks
> messages that I send with a From: address of another subscriber (to My
> ISP) but does not block any other From: address.

If that's true (that the ISP blocks based on From:, not From_), the 
change wouldn't have any effect.

> By the way,  does the  '-oi' flag mean 'ignore dots'. If so what does
> that mean?

If you talk (E)SMTP straight to an MTA, a line containing only "." is 
used to signal the end of the email, and if such a line appears in the 
actual email, it has to be escaped as "..". This escaping is undone by 
the time when sendmail feeds the email "into the aliases", i.e., we have 
"." as a real line of the email and EOF as the end of the email. -oi 
*should* be the default when the email is piped (!) back into email 
again, so that sendmail won't interpret "." as a (premature) end of the 
email, but I put it explicitly just to make sure.

Regards,
								J. Bern
0
bern (418)
11/24/2004 1:12:02 AM
Jochen Bern <bern@ti.uni-trier.de> wrote in message news:<co0n52$9pp$1@news.kamp.net>...
> Alan Curtis wrote:
> > If I have this right, your solution would change the From: field of
> > outgoing messages to the list as LIST-request. This would indeed be a
> > solution to the problem.
> 
> No, actually it changes the From_ (a.k.a. "Envelope From" a.k.a. SMTP 
> MAIL FROM:), not the From: (a.k.a. "Header From"). I.e., the mails, as 
> redistributed by your server and after being received by an MTA that 
> saves the envelope data in the usual pseudo headers, would read:
> 
> Return-Path: <LIST-request@your.server>
> X-Envelope-To: <subscriber@where.ever>
> From: Original Sender <someone@some.where>
> To: List Submission Address <LIST@your.server>
> 
> (whereas, with your current implementation, the Return-Path: would also 
> be <someone@some.where> .)
> 
> > However, I would prefer messages to the list to have a From: field
> > with the sender's email address not the list's address. My ISP blocks
> > messages that I send with a From: address of another subscriber (to My
> > ISP) but does not block any other From: address.
> 
> If that's true (that the ISP blocks based on From:, not From_), the 
> change wouldn't have any effect.
> 
> > By the way,  does the  '-oi' flag mean 'ignore dots'. If so what does
> > that mean?
> 
> If you talk (E)SMTP straight to an MTA, a line containing only "." is 
> used to signal the end of the email, and if such a line appears in the 
> actual email, it has to be escaped as "..". This escaping is undone by 
> the time when sendmail feeds the email "into the aliases", i.e., we have 
> "." as a real line of the email and EOF as the end of the email. -oi 
> *should* be the default when the email is piped (!) back into email 
> again, so that sendmail won't interpret "." as a (premature) end of the 
> email, but I put it explicitly just to make sure.
> 
> Regards,
> 								J. Bern


Thanks again. I used your method to check and my isp does block based
on From: not From_.

Alan
0
11/24/2004 3:38:49 PM
Alan Curtis wrote:
> Thanks again. I used your method to check and my isp does block based
> on From: not From_.

Ouch. :-/ Well, in *that* case, the emails need to go through *some* 
delivery on your server, as sendmail refuses to touch the From: (and a 
good-mannered MTA *should* behave like that). I suppose that the 
required functionality is available in some of the existing "mailinglist 
management" software packages, circumventing the need to roll your own 
solution, but I don't have much experience in that realm ...

Regards,
								J. Bern
0
bern (418)
11/24/2004 9:25:51 PM
Jochen Bern <bern@ti.uni-trier.de> writes:

> Alan Curtis wrote:
> > So <myaccount@myisp.com> and <myotheraccount@mywork.com> can send mail
> > to the list but not <otheruser@myisp.com>.
> > Any suggestions on how to fix this?
> 
> Would it be an option to set up the mailinglist in the traditional
> not-just-a-single-alias style, in particular, rewriting the envelope?
> 
> owner-LIST:	whoever.deals@with.administrative.issues
> LIST-request:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
> LIST-requests:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
> LIST:		"|/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -fLIST-request LIST-out"
> LIST-out:	:include:/wherever/you/keep/the/list/of/subscribers
> 
> Regards,
> 								J. Bern

Why not just do following ?

owner-LIST:	LIST-request
LIST-request:	whoever.deals@with.more.technical.issues
LIST:           :include:/wherever/you/keep/the/list/of/subscribers


That does same (owner-* aliases are special to sendmail) and
do not require piping of mail.

/ Kari Hurtta

Quote from manual:


      2.6.3.  List owners

              If  an  error  occurs  on sending to a certain
         address, say "x", sendmail will look for  an  alias
         of  the form "owner-x" to receive the errors.  This
         is typically useful for a mailing  list  where  the
         submitter of the list has no control over the main�
         tenance of the list itself; in this case  the  list
         maintainer  would  be  the  owner of the list.  For
         example:

             unix-wizards: eric@ucbarpa, wnj@monet, nosuchuser,
                  sam@matisse
             owner-unix-wizards: unix-wizards-request
             unix-wizards-request: eric@ucbarpa

         would cause "eric@ucbarpa" to get  the  error  that
         will  occur  when someone sends to unix-wizards due
         to the inclusion of "nosuchuser" on the list.

              List owners also  cause  the  envelope  sender
         address  to be modified.  The contents of the owner
         alias are used if they point to a single user, oth�
         erwise  the  name of the alias itself is used.  For
         this reason, and to obey Internet conventions,  the
         "owner-"  address normally points at the "-request"
         address; this causes messages to go  out  with  the
         typical   Internet   convention  of  using  ``list-
         request'' as the return address.

0
hurtta (156)
11/25/2004 6:20:16 AM
Kari Hurtta wrote:
>               List owners also  cause  the  envelope  sender
>          address  to be modified.  The contents of the owner
>          alias are used if they point to a single user

Oh. Thanks for the hint, that feature wasn't there yet when I started 
with (mailinglists on a SunOS-provided) sendmail ... (The RELEASE_NOTES 
state that it got added in 6.27.)

Otherwise: There was a time when bounces right on the sending MTA (i.e., 
going to owner-LIST) were more likely to indicate subscriber addresses 
that went defunct/nonexistent (i.e., should be summarily removed from 
the list) than bounces later on (i.e., going back to the new envelope 
from, LIST-request), which were more prone to either temporary or deep 
"technological" problems (header syntax incompatibilities or whatever). 
Back then, people were also tech-savvy enough to guess and enter 
manually such special addresses if they wanted to contact some list's
administration, hence the "typo-correcting" alias LIST-requests.
                                                              ^^^

Regards,
								J. Bern
0
bern (418)
11/25/2004 2:00:21 PM
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