Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?

Thanks,

Mario

"Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

Not sure about .aiff or .au, but it is not possible to accurately convert a
..wav file to a .mid file. The other way round is of course a piece of cake!

No not really.

If the source is monophonic then something like Celemony's Melodyne would
work but I assume you want to put your favorite S-Club 7 track into a piece
of software and extract each instrument as a MIDI stream.

At present this is impossible.



"Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

"Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.

http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:52:52 -0000, "Mr. Slow"
<millenniumgold@crouchvale.freeserve.invalid> wrote:

>Not sure about .aiff or .au, but it is not possible to accurately convert a
>.wav file to a .mid file. The other way round is of course a piece of cake!
>

They're all sound files.   And sound > midi doesn't work, except with
ridiculously simple material.

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

half_pint wrote:
> "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> 
>>Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Mario
> 
> 
> Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> 
> http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> 
> 
Hey !
you have to tried, and after you do, you are going to share
the same word, there is no such of software yet. and I wonder if ever 
will be one capable.
I tried and tried and tried, forget it!, is easer for me to take piano 
lessons.. I'm slow on that lessons, but some day .....


Leo.

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
>> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mario
> 
> Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,

Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.

> i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> 
> http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/

Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with something
more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's 'S-Club 7'
comment in this thread. 

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who replied were
talking sense. I've used another program called something like Wav2MIDI and
it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware though so
give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to download
the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in your
compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or something.


"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
>
> Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
>
> http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
>
>

"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>
> >
> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mario
> >
> > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
>
> Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
> musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
> done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
>
> > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> >
> > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
>
> Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with something
> more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's 'S-Club 7'
> comment in this thread.

I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one format
it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
good the conversion program is.
>
> --
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"Mr C" <total_incognito@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uittdLY9DHA.1112@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who replied
were
> talking sense. I've used another program called something like Wav2MIDI
and
> it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware though so
> give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to
download
> the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in your
> compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or something.

I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on how
good
the converter was.

>
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mario
> >
> > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> >
> > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> >
> >
>
>

I've read the previous comments and can add I agree with the people who
stated it's not "really" possible to convert wav/mp3/etc. sound files to
midi. In practical terms, the only reason I can see for wanting to do this
is so that one can use the midi file to create sheet music, something you
can't get directly from a wav file.

I've gone down this road and it is possible to get a very dirty "hack"
converting a simple one melody and no accompanyment style song from wav to
midi. I can guarantee you, that even such a simple midi will not sound like
the original wav file and at best will require considerable manual editing.

Note that "midi" is not strickly a sound file in the sense of "recorded
information" like most sound files. What I mean by that is that. midi is not
a recording of actual music encoded in some fashion but instead midi
describes the "actions" neccessary to re-create the sounds, e.g. key down,
how "hard" key was pressed, how long it was held etc. etc. An important
distinction as notice it's the playback device (synthesizer, external
keyboard etc.) that uses this fundamental information to "play" the music
and not simply "decode" it.

Another way to look at it is to imagine the wav file is simply recording
where the speaker is "right now" (e.g. as it's pumping in and out creating
the sound). There's no information about what happened to make the speaker
move to that position. Midi's almost the opposite, think of it as a "script"
you'd send to a robot. It's about the physical mechanics, the sound produced
is incidental..

Now, given knowing how midi works, think about what would be involved in
converting any everyday style music to midi. Somehow, the software would
have to be able to tell how hard every drum was hit, how long every cymbal
"sang" (in both initial struck force and duration) how hard every bass note
was played and how long it lasted. Expand that to every sound created in the
music.

On the face of it, wav to midi seems a daunting task.


Mario wrote:
> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:47:51 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
>can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on how
>good
>the converter was.


I'm afraid you would have thought wrong :-)

I don't think you quite understand what a midi file is.  Ever seen a
player-piano, with the punched paper roll controlling which notes to
play?   Midi is like that, only more complex - it can control multiple
instruments and lots of sound parameters.

Now, take a sound recording, and design a machine that automatically
"hears" it and cuts the piano-roll.

It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

pjp wrote:

> I've read the previous comments and can add I agree with the people who
> stated it's not "really" possible to convert wav/mp3/etc. sound files to
> midi. In practical terms, the only reason I can see for wanting to do this
> is so that one can use the midi file to create sheet music, something you
> can't get directly from a wav file.
> 
> I've gone down this road and it is possible to get a very dirty "hack"
> converting a simple one melody and no accompanyment style song from wav to
> midi. I can guarantee you, that even such a simple midi will not sound like
> the original wav file and at best will require considerable manual editing.
> 
> Note that "midi" is not strickly a sound file in the sense of "recorded
> information" like most sound files. What I mean by that is that. midi is not
> a recording of actual music encoded in some fashion but instead midi
> describes the "actions" neccessary to re-create the sounds, e.g. key down,
> how "hard" key was pressed, how long it was held etc. etc. An important
> distinction as notice it's the playback device (synthesizer, external
> keyboard etc.) that uses this fundamental information to "play" the music
> and not simply "decode" it.
> 
> Another way to look at it is to imagine the wav file is simply recording
> where the speaker is "right now" (e.g. as it's pumping in and out creating
> the sound). There's no information about what happened to make the speaker
> move to that position. Midi's almost the opposite, think of it as a "script"
> you'd send to a robot. It's about the physical mechanics, the sound produced
> is incidental..
> 
> Now, given knowing how midi works, think about what would be involved in
> converting any everyday style music to midi. Somehow, the software would
> have to be able to tell how hard every drum was hit, how long every cymbal
> "sang" (in both initial struck force and duration) how hard every bass note
> was played and how long it lasted. Expand that to every sound created in the
> music.
> 
> On the face of it, wav to midi seems a daunting task.
> 

It's similar to using OCR to go from a bit graphics file to text.
You can convert from one kind of bit graphic to another (e.g. tif
to bmp) fairly easily, but it's a lot harder to pull out the text
that's portrayed.

> 
> Mario wrote:
> 
>>Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
>>.mid ?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Mario
> 
> 
> 


-- 
After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have
concluded we must conceal our e-mail address.  Our true address is the
mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol.  It's a shame such
steps are necessary.          ...Charlie

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:02:41 -0400, "pjp"
<pjpoirier_is_located_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I've read the previous comments and can add I agree with the people who
>stated it's not "really" possible to convert wav/mp3/etc. sound files to
>midi. In practical terms, the only reason I can see for wanting to do this
>is so that one can use the midi file to create sheet music, something you
>can't get directly from a wav file.

I suspect many  queries are from people who want to create ring tones
for their mobile 'phone.

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

First hit on google "wav to mid":
http://www.intelliscore.net/
Dave
"Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rb1530ddfok3m8cjeg631a3cl3qvvmutin@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:47:51 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> >can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
how
> >good
> >the converter was.
>
>
> I'm afraid you would have thought wrong :-)
>
> I don't think you quite understand what a midi file is.  Ever seen a
> player-piano, with the punched paper roll controlling which notes to
> play?   Midi is like that, only more complex - it can control multiple
> instruments and lots of sound parameters.
>
> Now, take a sound recording, and design a machine that automatically
> "hears" it and cuts the piano-roll.
>
> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
>
Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of 'nouse'.


>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

A MIDI file doesnt create sound, it only contains information telling a
sound device i.e. your soundcard what sounds to play and when.

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0tnm1$1cd7cd$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Mr C" <total_incognito@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uittdLY9DHA.1112@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who replied
> were
> > talking sense. I've used another program called something like Wav2MIDI
> and
> > it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware though so
> > give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to
> download
> > the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in your
> > compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or something.
>
> I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
how
> good
> the converter was.
>
> >
> >
> > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
..mid
> ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Mario
> > >
> > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > >
> > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

In article <c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
 "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
> ?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Mario
> > >
> > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> >
> > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
> > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
> > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
> >
> > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > >
> > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> >
> > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with something
> > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's 'S-Club 7'
> > comment in this thread.
> 
> I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one format
> it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
> good the conversion program is.
> >
> > --
> > Michael Turner
> > Email (ROT13)
> > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

Except Midi isnt sound - as others have tried and obviously failed to 
explain to you. The sound is only generated at the end of the chain (and 
only if you want to).

Joe

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> First hit on google "wav to mid":
> http://www.intelliscore.net/
> Dave

Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual ;O)

--
---------------
regards half_pint

> "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
>
>

"Peter" <disorganised@nocom.com> wrote in message
news:disorganised-C950D0.09250218022004@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> In article <c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
>  "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
..mid
> > ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> Mario
> > > >
> > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > >
> > > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
> > > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
> > > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
> > >
> > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > >
> > > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with
something
> > > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's
'S-Club 7'
> > > comment in this thread.
> >
> > I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one
format
> > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on
how
> > good the conversion program is.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael Turner
> > > Email (ROT13)
> > > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
>
> Except Midi isnt sound - as others have tried and obviously failed to
> explain to you. The sound is only generated at the end of the chain (and
> only if you want to).

And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
decoding, just like the midi file will be.

A .wav file doesn't make a noise by it self ( as far as I am aware).

--
---------------
regards half_pint

> Joe

"Karl" <kd@TAKEOUTbigwig.net> wrote in message
news:c0u43h$n2h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> A MIDI file doesnt create sound, it only contains information telling a
> sound device i.e. your soundcard what sounds to play and when.


Obviously when it is processed my the relevant decoder equipment
ithe sound is created, without being too pedantic about it.

>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0tnm1$1cd7cd$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Mr C" <total_incognito@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:uittdLY9DHA.1112@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who replied
> > were
> > > talking sense. I've used another program called something like
Wav2MIDI
> > and
> > > it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware though
so
> > > give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to
> > download
> > > the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in your
> > > compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or something.
> >
> > I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> > can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
> how
> > good
> > the converter was.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid
> > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

In article <c0u516$1blbug$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
 "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Peter" <disorganised@nocom.com> wrote in message
> news:disorganised-C950D0.09250218022004@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> > In article <c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> >  "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > > news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid
> > > ?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Mario
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > >
> > > > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
> > > > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
> > > > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
> > > >
> > > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > > >
> > > > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with
> something
> > > > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's
> 'S-Club 7'
> > > > comment in this thread.
> > >
> > > I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one
> format
> > > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on
> how
> > > good the conversion program is.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Michael Turner
> > > > Email (ROT13)
> > > > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
> >
> > Except Midi isnt sound - as others have tried and obviously failed to
> > explain to you. The sound is only generated at the end of the chain (and
> > only if you want to).
> 
> And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
> decoding, just like the midi file will be.
> 
> A .wav file doesn't make a noise by it self ( as far as I am aware).
> 
> --
> ---------------
> regards half_pint
> 
> > Joe
> 
> 

Whatever. Let us know when you find that bit of software that takes a 
..wav file, splits all the instruments out into seperate channels, shows 
us each note and its duration, allows you to mute an instrument or even 
change it into some other instrument and all the other things that midi 
can do (and .wav cant). Automatic transciption of the voice into a lyric 
track too of coarse.

Joe

On 17 Feb 2004 05:28:13 -0800, Mario <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote:

> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?

Hire a cover band to play the tune and record it as midi. Probably much 
cheaper than the computer power you'd need to do anything other than make 
plinky-plunky ringtones.

Regards,
Brian

"Peter" <disorganised@nocom.com> wrote in message
news:disorganised-81BA1A.09590418022004@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> In article <c0u516$1blbug$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
>  "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "Peter" <disorganised@nocom.com> wrote in message
> > news:disorganised-C950D0.09250218022004@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> > > In article <c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> > >  "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > > > news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> > > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav
into
> > .mid
> > > > ?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Mario
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > > >
> > > > > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is
a
> > > > > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples.
That's
> > > > > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
> > > > >
> > > > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > > > >
> > > > > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with
> > something
> > > > > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's
> > 'S-Club 7'
> > > > > comment in this thread.
> > > >
> > > > I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in
one
> > format
> > > > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends
on
> > how
> > > > good the conversion program is.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Michael Turner
> > > > > Email (ROT13)
> > > > > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
> > >
> > > Except Midi isnt sound - as others have tried and obviously failed to
> > > explain to you. The sound is only generated at the end of the chain
(and
> > > only if you want to).
> >
> > And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
> > decoding, just like the midi file will be.
> >
> > A .wav file doesn't make a noise by it self ( as far as I am aware).
> >
> > --
> > ---------------
> > regards half_pint
> >
> > > Joe
> >
> >
>
> Whatever. Let us know when you find that bit of software that takes a
> .wav file, splits all the instruments out into seperate channels, shows
> us each note and its duration, allows you to mute an instrument or even
> change it into some other instrument and all the other things that midi
> can do (and .wav cant). Automatic transciption of the voice into a lyric
> track too of coarse.
>
> Joe

Will next Thursday be OK?

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:45:11 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
>> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
>> >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
> ?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Mario
>> >
>> > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
>>
>> Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
>> musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
>> done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
>>
>> > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
>> >
>> > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
>>
>> Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with something
>> more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's 'S-Club 7'
>> comment in this thread.
> 
> I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one format
> it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
> good the conversion program is.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
>>
>Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of 'nouse'.

OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs that
pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex than
a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and post
your result.   

AI think you'll discover that currently the only way to do it is to
use all "nous" and no program at all, except your brain (and
considerable musical experience:-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:35:40 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
>decoding, just like the midi file will be.
>
>A .wav file doesn't make a noise by it self ( as far as I am aware).

You're flogging a dead one here, half_pint, my old mate :-)   Give in
gracefully before you make a fool of yourself.


     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:32:42 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
>> First hit on google "wav to mid":
>> http://www.intelliscore.net/
>> Dave
> 
> Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual ;O)

OK then put your S-Club 7, Westlife, Boyzone or whatever WAV thru it and
see what happens.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> >>
> >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of 'nouse'.
>
> OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs that
> pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex than
> a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and post
> your result.

Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something simple.
The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?

Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.

All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are correct.
"It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total enchilada.

A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
a successful conversion.

IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:38:50 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> A MIDI file doesnt create sound, it only contains information telling a
>> sound device i.e. your soundcard what sounds to play and when.
>
>
>Obviously when it is processed my the relevant decoder equipment
>ithe sound is created, without being too pedantic about it.


I'm not sure you WANT to learn!  But just in case  :-)

Sound files - aiff, wav, MP3 etc contain the data necessary to
reconstruct the actual sound.  Like a tape recording (which is no good
until "decoded" by the tape head).

A midi file is MUCH smaller.  It contains instructions to a
synthesiser or sample player to play certain notes, using certain
sounds.   The sounds used are created by the synth, and, unless the
equipment is identical, will sound different when played on different
systems.

There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when
Program 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a
trumpet etc. etc.   But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet"
is up for grabs.

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:05:22 GMT, Brian Grainger
<granam@operamail.com> wrote:

>> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
>
>Hire a cover band to play the tune and record it as midi. Probably much 
>cheaper than the computer power you'd need to do anything other than make 
>plinky-plunky ringtones.

If they all played instruments that output midi information, maybe
:-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Could you tell me about how great it is once you've bought and evaluated it?
I'm still sceptical, I can't work out how a wav-midi converter would be able
to distinguish between different instruments in a wav file (normally a
number of instrument solos are bounced into one track as audio [wav/au/aiff
etc.]) and map them out separate tracks in an effective way. If this program
cannot, then you're in for a beautiful melodic mixture of gabba-style midi
arrangements as the computer converts each sound pitch it comes across into
a midi note. If you consider midi like a piece of notation, a score if you
like, where you choose the instrument to play the score then it might be
easier to see the difficulty in converting a .wav, .aiff or .au file into a
..mid if there are lots of different instruments playing at once.

I'll give you a blue peter badge for the effort though, you were right
insofar as you can convert wav-midi, it's just that it's so amazingly shite
in my opinion that I'd prefer to spend my time practising the keyboard to
mimic the tune I want to convert or finding the midi file through the
numerous midi search engines available. I've spent far too much time writing
this, great debate though.

I've got an even better question: what's the best way of capturing the
appalling general midi sounds onto a track as a .wav? Easy with VST
instruments and keyboard internal sounds but difficult with GM sounds.
Beating that, why would anyone want to record GM sounds?

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > Dave
>
> Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
;O)
>
> --
> ---------------
> regards half_pint
>
> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mario
> >
> >
>
>

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:16:49 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:38:50 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>> A MIDI file doesnt create sound, it only contains information telling a
>>> sound device i.e. your soundcard what sounds to play and when.
>>
>>
>>Obviously when it is processed my the relevant decoder equipment
>>ithe sound is created, without being too pedantic about it.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you WANT to learn!  But just in case  :-)
> 
> Sound files - aiff, wav, MP3 etc contain the data necessary to
> reconstruct the actual sound.  Like a tape recording (which is no good
> until "decoded" by the tape head).
> 
> A midi file is MUCH smaller.  It contains instructions to a
> synthesiser or sample player to play certain notes, using certain
> sounds.   The sounds used are created by the synth, and, unless the
> equipment is identical, will sound different when played on different
> systems.

Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
*music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
 
> There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when Program
> 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet etc.
> etc.   But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
> grabs.
> 
>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Yup you know what you're talking about.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:24:08 -0000, "Mr C" <total_incognito> wrote:

>I've got an even better question: what's the best way of capturing the
>appalling general midi sounds onto a track as a .wav? Easy with VST
>instruments and keyboard internal sounds but difficult with GM sounds.
>Beating that, why would anyone want to record GM sounds?


There are half-way-decent GM soundsets.   But I guess you're talking
about the ones built into Windows - the Microsoft Synth?

If you can hear it, you can record it.  If you've got nothing better
to hand, Windows Sound Recorder will do it.

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

>  think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one format
> it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
> good the conversion program is.

When you say that, it's clear that youy have absoluetly no idea what you're 
talking about.

..wav, .au, .aif files ARE sound flies. MIDI files are not; they are 
instructions for musical isntruments.

It will never be possible to convert arbitrary audio files to MIDI files.

-- 
Jim Johnson 

I hesitated to get involved in this turkey that pops up every now and
again!!! but here goes.
A midi file does not "contain" any sound what so ever. It is just like a
pianola punched tape. When put into a pianola and one pedals it plays the
piano - badly! A wav file does contain sound it is a digital wave file that
is technically an 'analog' of the original sound. It contains all the
information that the original microphones picked up, the acoustics etc.

Wav to Midi converters should be called Wav to Midi Transcribers - they work
if one instrument is involved and each note is played separately - no
overlaps. Even then all they do is transcribe the note, the duration.
Absolutely nothing about acoustics or the original instrument timbre etc.

To get an idea of the complexity of trying just to decode say a recording of
a Symphony orchestra with 110 instruments - all those sum and difference
frequencies, all those harmonics generated and reflected even the computer
in the restaurant at the end of the universe would have difficulty!!

The final crunch comes when you try to do even a very simple 2 instrument
'conversion' of 2 flutes one playing the melody (tune) and the other an
obligato (harmony).... both these terms are human descriptive terms and
there ain't any mathematical laws to define them - ie Robby the computer
burns out...

Fred


"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
..mid
> ?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Mario
> > >
> > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> >
> > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
> > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
> > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
> >
> > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > >
> > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> >
> > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with
something
> > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's 'S-Club
7'
> > comment in this thread.
>
> I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one
format
> it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
> good the conversion program is.
> >
> > --
> > Michael Turner
> > Email (ROT13)
> > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
>
>

Wav to midi conversion software - Solo Explorer
 http://www.recognisoft.com/

if you have wave containing just solo



http://www.anahata.co.uk/music/sonarscope/S_O_N_A_R_S_C_O_P_E/produkcija

Try "Amazing Grace" bagpipe version in wav format to mid.  A Google search
will find the music.  You have the converter.  Should be interesting, Mr.
Right was it?
Dave
"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > Dave
>
> Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
;O)
>
> --
> ---------------
> regards half_pint
>
> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mario
> >
> >
>
>

"Fred P" <Fredp56NOSWEAT@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4032e4e7@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> I hesitated to get involved in this turkey that pops up every now and
> again!!! but here goes.
> A midi file does not "contain" any sound what so ever. It is just like a
> pianola punched tape. When put into a pianola and one pedals it plays the
> piano - badly! A wav file does contain sound it is a digital wave file
that
> is technically an 'analog' of the original sound. It contains all the
> information that the original microphones picked up, the acoustics etc.

It contains a string of binary data, 1 and zeros just like a midi file.

>
> Wav to Midi converters should be called Wav to Midi Transcribers - they
work
> if one instrument is involved and each note is played separately - no
> overlaps. Even then all they do is transcribe the note, the duration.
> Absolutely nothing about acoustics or the original instrument timbre etc.
>
> To get an idea of the complexity of trying just to decode say a recording
of
> a Symphony orchestra with 110 instruments - all those sum and difference
> frequencies, all those harmonics generated and reflected even the computer
> in the restaurant at the end of the universe would have difficulty!!

I suppose it would lose to Kasparof at chess to because chess is 'too
complex'
for a dumb computer?

>
> The final crunch comes when you try to do even a very simple 2 instrument
> 'conversion' of 2 flutes one playing the melody (tune) and the other an
> obligato (harmony).... both these terms are human descriptive terms and
> there ain't any mathematical laws to define them - ie Robby the computer
> burns out...

I don't really know much about musical terms, I doubt they mean much to a
computer.
I am actually not entirely sure that the 'scope of a MIDI' is either but I
don't think
it really matters.
A computer would probably be more interested in the Fourier? transform of
the sound.

Actually the computer might play all the wrong instruments in the wrong
places  yet
still reproduce the same sound!!

>
> Fred
>
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2004.02.17.18.02.59.632000@ivetva.arg...
> > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:29:08 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > >> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid
> > ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> Mario
> > > >
> > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > >
> > > Very differently. WAV, AIFF, etc. are sound sample files. MIDI is a
> > > musical description file/protocol which does not carry samples. That's
> > > done with the MIDI playing application/hardware.
> > >
> > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > >
> > > Yup that's a simple *single* instrument piano piece. Try it with
> something
> > > more complex, especially if it's got vocals. See also Room102's
'S-Club
> 7'
> > > comment in this thread.
> >
> > I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one
> format
> > it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on
how
> > good the conversion program is.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael Turner
> > > Email (ROT13)
> > > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
> >
> >
>
>

"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.18.00.25.35.487000@ivetva.arg...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:16:49 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:38:50 -0000, "half_pint"
> > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> A MIDI file doesnt create sound, it only contains information telling
a
> >>> sound device i.e. your soundcard what sounds to play and when.
> >>
> >>
> >>Obviously when it is processed my the relevant decoder equipment
> >>ithe sound is created, without being too pedantic about it.
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure you WANT to learn!  But just in case  :-)
> >
> > Sound files - aiff, wav, MP3 etc contain the data necessary to
> > reconstruct the actual sound.  Like a tape recording (which is no good
> > until "decoded" by the tape head).
> >
> > A midi file is MUCH smaller.  It contains instructions to a
> > synthesiser or sample player to play certain notes, using certain
> > sounds.   The sounds used are created by the synth, and, unless the
> > equipment is identical, will sound different when played on different
> > systems.


*All* music on played on different hardware (speakers etc.) sounds
different.

>
> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.

At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
on a speaker essentially.


>
> > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when Program
> > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet etc.
> > etc.   But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
> > grabs.

All music files contain a code for  playing music, all codes can be
decoded and translated into a different format.

No too sounds are ever *idential* anyway.

> >
> >      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> > "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
>
> Yup you know what you're talking about.

Yes I do, and I know *exactly* what I am talking about.

>
> --
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:13:13 -0800, jamos@technotoys.com (Jim Johnson)
wrote:

>.wav, .au, .aif files ARE sound flies. MIDI files are not; they are 
>instructions for musical isntruments.

Correct
>
>It will never be possible to convert arbitrary audio files to MIDI files.
Maybe.   Computers are very good at data analysis.  I believe work is
being done on systems that try to pick out one voice from a crowd.  If
this is perfected, we'd be a long way towards picking instruments out
from a mix - "unbaking the cake" as it's sometimes put.

We're not there yet.   But people who say "It will never be done" have
almost always been proved wrong :-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:14:13 +1100, "Fred P"
<Fredp56NOSWEAT@tpg.com.au> wrote:

>The final crunch comes when you try to do even a very simple 2 instrument
>'conversion' of 2 flutes one playing the melody (tune) and the other an
>obligato (harmony).... both these terms are human descriptive terms and
>there ain't any mathematical laws to define them - ie Robby the computer
>burns out...

Actually, transcribing a flute duet is about where the technology
stands at present.  

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
>> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
>> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
>
>At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
>on a speaker essentially.
>
OK.  One more try.:-)

  NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
play its own sounds.
>
>>
>> > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when Program
>> > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet etc.
>> > etc.   But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
>> > grabs.
>
>All music files contain a code for  playing music, all codes can be
>decoded and translated into a different format.

Yes, if they're music files.  Midi isn't.  

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:q8h630lif40pofnvkr5skclk5qo9pb1ir7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
> >> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
> >> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
> >
> >At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
> >on a speaker essentially.
> >
> OK.  One more try.:-)
>
>   NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
> an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
> play its own sounds.

OK one more try :-)
How do synthesisers play their sound?
Answer via a speaker.
Has the penny dropped?


> >
> >>
> >> > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when
Program
> >> > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet
etc.
> >> > etc.   But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
> >> > grabs.
> >
> >All music files contain a code for  playing music, all codes can be
> >decoded and translated into a different format.
>
> Yes, if they're music files.  Midi isn't.

Neither is a music file, both are data files.
Computer files contain data 1's and 0's.
Sound is the vibration of molecules, the molecules of a computer file
containing data may vibrate may vibrate but I doubt you can hear them
(I think you will find that probably the computers fan you can hear).

It would me more accurate to say the files are a data pattern and exist
more as a 'concept' rathan a physical reality.

>
>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a1b5305hps1t6vfe72t04ajklld4herial@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:35:40 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
> >decoding, just like the midi file will be.
> >
> >A .wav file doesn't make a noise by it self ( as far as I am aware).
>
> You're flogging a dead one here, half_pint, my old mate :-)   Give in
> gracefully before you make a fool of yourself.

There is only one fool pressing the keys on your keyboard and it ain't me
:-)



>
>
>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:3CGYb.1043$oj2.919@lakeread03...
> Try "Amazing Grace" bagpipe version in wav format to mid.  A Google search
> will find the music.  You have the converter.  Should be interesting, Mr.
> Right was it?
> Dave

I am not bothered by actually doing it, all I am say is (give peace a
chance?)
tha itt could be done.

Oh and how do you know it was bagpipes?
If you could tell it was bagpipes then so could my computer.
You mmight think you are smarter but try playing my computer at chess
and see how far you get.
(8 million positions analysed.....)


--
---------------
regards half_pint


> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > > Dave
> >
> > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
> ;O)
> >
> > --
> > ---------------
> > regards half_pint
> >
> > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
..mid
> ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Mario
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:u##z9Tb9DHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> > >>
> > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of
'nouse'.
> >
> > OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs that
> > pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex than
> > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and post
> > your result.
>
> Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something simple.
> The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?
>
> Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
> there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.

How would you know?

>
> All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are correct.
> "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total enchilada.
>
> A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
> a successful conversion.
>
> IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.

It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
>
>

I'm sorry mate, but you really are a half-pint. The links you think are
supporting you are actually just repeating that wav-midi is essentially
worthless. I've tried the freeware stuff and I get a muddle of midi notes
that sounds like a two year-old banging the piano. Midi isn't a sound file,
I'll quote from www.computermusic.co.uk :

"This is something many people don't fully understand when first confronting
MIDI Song Files, for example. They assume that what's on a MIDI Song File
disc is a recording of the actual song itself. It isn't. A MIDI Song File is
simply a long string of MIDI data which instructs one or more instruments to
reproduce the song according to the way the person that originally wrote (or
played) it, intended."

Which means....

"It's important to remember that MIDI data is not sound data. If you were to
somehow connect a MIDI cable to the input of an amplifier (don't!), you'd
hear a harsh buzzing (loud enough to threaten your speaker cones). This is
the sound of digital data being transmitted down the cable. It may contain
vital information about how a piece of music should be played - what notes,
what pitch, what duration, what volume, etc - but it is not the sound of the
music itself."

I like to think people learn in this place, surely that's the point of a
newsgroup. Here's the lesson:
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/midi/midi.asp so now learn or stop
being provacative.



"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > Dave
>
> Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
;O)
>
> --
> ---------------
> regards half_pint
>
> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mario
> >
> >
>
>

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:00:01 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
>>> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
>>> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
>>
>>At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
>>on a speaker essentially.
>>
> OK.  One more try.:-)
> 
>   NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
> an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
> play its own sounds.

<snipped>

My guess is that Half_Pint is just trying to get everyone wound up
(well it is half-term), or he/she/it is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.18.14.01.25.998000@ivetva.arg...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:00:01 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
> > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
> >>> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
> >>> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
> >>
> >>At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
> >>on a speaker essentially.
> >>
> > OK.  One more try.:-)
> >
> >   NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
> > an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
> > play its own sounds.
>
> <snipped>
>
> My guess is that Half_Pint is just trying to get everyone wound up
> (well it is half-term), or he/she/it is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I suspect the only 'tool' to ever be found in your shed is you.

>
> Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

Just like your mind.

>
> --
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:15:47 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> 
> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.18.14.01.25.998000@ivetva.arg...
>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:00:01 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
>> > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
>> >>> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
>> >>> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
>> >>
>> >>At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
>> >>on a speaker essentially.
>> >>
>> > OK.  One more try.:-)
>> >
>> >   NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
>> > an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
>> > play its own sounds.
>>
>> <snipped>
>>
>> My guess is that Half_Pint is just trying to get everyone wound up
>> (well it is half-term), or he/she/it is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
> 
> I suspect the only 'tool' to ever be found in your shed is you.
> 
>>
>> Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Just like your mind.

Idiot.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"Mr C" <total_incognito> wrote in message
news:#ayaOrh9DHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I'm sorry mate, but you really are a half-pint. The links you think are
> supporting you are

I am not supporting any link I just posted one which appeared to do it.

>actually just repeating that wav-midi is essentially
> worthless. I've tried the freeware stuff and I get a muddle of midi notes
> that sounds like a two year-old banging the piano.
Well what kind of work do you do for nowt?


>Midi isn't a sound file,
> I'll quote from www.computermusic.co.uk :
>
> "This is something many people don't fully understand when first
confronting
> MIDI Song Files, for example. They assume that what's on a MIDI Song File
> disc is a recording of the actual song itself. It isn't. A MIDI Song File
is
> simply a long string of MIDI data which instructs one or more instruments
to
> reproduce the song according to the way the person that originally wrote
(or
> played) it, intended."

And other music files are simply a string of 1's and zeros which control the
current in an electro magnet. There is no 'sound' in them at all.
No music files contain 'sound', pointing this out is  pointless and stupid.

>
> Which means....
>
> "It's important to remember that MIDI data is not sound data.

It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.


>If you were to
> somehow connect a MIDI cable to the input of an amplifier (don't!), you'd
> hear a harsh buzzing (loud enough to threaten your speaker cones). This is
> the sound of digital data being transmitted down the cable. It may contain
> vital information about how a piece of music should be played - what
notes,
> what pitch, what duration, what volume, etc - but it is not the sound of
the
> music itself."

Is just the same as any other music file, if it is not connected to the
correct decoding
equipment it is at best just a series of 5 and 0 volt voltage levels which
will sound
horrible it put as input to a speaker.

>
> I like to think people learn in this place, surely that's the point of a
> newsgroup. Here's the lesson:
> http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/midi/midi.asp so now learn or stop
> being provacative.

I'm no being provactive, I could point you to sites which describe the
coding
of an mp3 file and how a digital to analogue converter works, but whats the
point?
Neither contain sound, they just contain data which can be used to produce
sound
from the appropiate circuitary, decode either incorrectly or connect to the
wrong
exuipment and you won't hear any sound, more than likely you will damage
whatever you
connect it too.
>
>
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > > Dave
> >
> > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
> ;O)
> >
> > --
> > ---------------
> > regards half_pint
> >
> > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
..mid
> ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Mario
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
>

No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet! After so
many posts on this thread!
It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?

So I will try to explain differently:

1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just flows of 0
and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears on your speakers.

BUT

2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software tools
can do the wav to mid conversion.

BECAUSE:

There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from Wav to Mid
very difficult:
- wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly, compressed or
not (this unique waveform is ),
- whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note off"
commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the note from 0 to
127, the  of the order, , velocity from 0 to 127). That's why a midi file
can be compared to a score sheet. In order to produce a waveform, it is
mandatory to use it into a midi instrument (either software like the
microsoft default wavetable or hardware like a synthetiser), which will
generate the final waveform by playing the wavetable sounds as it has been
defined in the midi file commands.

To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't have, which
is essentially the note on and note off informations.
Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a complex wav
file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note on and note off
commands. Just because a single note played by an instrument has many many
frequencies mixed together and because they mix with those of other
instruments, too. The mathematical models used to analyse songs are poors,
for now.
But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it too.


SY
-- 
Guillaume Fallet (France)

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
>

No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet! After so
many posts on this thread!
It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?

So I will try to explain differently:

1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just flows of 0
and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears on your speakers.

BUT

2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software tools
can do the wav to mid conversion.

BECAUSE:

There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from Wav to Mid
very difficult:
- wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly, compressed or
not,
- whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note off"
commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the note from 0 to
127, the order time, the velocity from 0 to 127...). That's why a midi file
can be compared to a score sheet. In order to produce a waveform, it is
mandatory to use it into a midi instrument (either software like the
microsoft default wavetable or hardware like a synthetiser keyboard),
which will generate the final waveform by reading the midi file commands
and playing the wavetable sounds.

To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't have, which
is essentially the note on and note off informations.
Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a complex wav
file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note on and note off
commands. Just because a single note played by an instrument has many many
frequencies mixed together and because they mix with those of other
instruments, too. The mathematical models used to analyse songs are poors,
for now.
But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it too.

I hope it has switch on a light somewhere ... ;)


-- 
Guillaume Fallet (France)

> And other music files are simply a string of 1's and zeros which control
the
> current in an electro magnet. There is no 'sound' in them at all.
> No music files contain 'sound', pointing this out is  pointless and
stupid.

I understand your point, but then we could just argue down to the point of
'vibrations are forms of energy and anything that creates energy is
therefore a form of sound'. Put it that way and we end up arguing that we
eat farts because molecules make up both food and gas. You're talking about
the mechanics, I'm talking about the result the human ear hears, which is
surely what is important here. Still, I'm going to end putting my argument
forward now.

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Mr C" <total_incognito> wrote in message
> news:#ayaOrh9DHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > I'm sorry mate, but you really are a half-pint. The links you think are
> > supporting you are
>
> I am not supporting any link I just posted one which appeared to do it.
>
> >actually just repeating that wav-midi is essentially
> > worthless. I've tried the freeware stuff and I get a muddle of midi
notes
> > that sounds like a two year-old banging the piano.
> Well what kind of work do you do for nowt?
>
>
> >Midi isn't a sound file,
> > I'll quote from www.computermusic.co.uk :
> >
> > "This is something many people don't fully understand when first
> confronting
> > MIDI Song Files, for example. They assume that what's on a MIDI Song
File
> > disc is a recording of the actual song itself. It isn't. A MIDI Song
File
> is
> > simply a long string of MIDI data which instructs one or more
instruments
> to
> > reproduce the song according to the way the person that originally wrote
> (or
> > played) it, intended."
>
> And other music files are simply a string of 1's and zeros which control
the
> current in an electro magnet. There is no 'sound' in them at all.
> No music files contain 'sound', pointing this out is  pointless and
stupid.
>
> >
> > Which means....
> >
> > "It's important to remember that MIDI data is not sound data.
>
> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
>
>
> >If you were to
> > somehow connect a MIDI cable to the input of an amplifier (don't!),
you'd
> > hear a harsh buzzing (loud enough to threaten your speaker cones). This
is
> > the sound of digital data being transmitted down the cable. It may
contain
> > vital information about how a piece of music should be played - what
> notes,
> > what pitch, what duration, what volume, etc - but it is not the sound of
> the
> > music itself."
>
> Is just the same as any other music file, if it is not connected to the
> correct decoding
> equipment it is at best just a series of 5 and 0 volt voltage levels which
> will sound
> horrible it put as input to a speaker.
>
> >
> > I like to think people learn in this place, surely that's the point of a
> > newsgroup. Here's the lesson:
> > http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/midi/midi.asp so now learn or
stop
> > being provacative.
>
> I'm no being provactive, I could point you to sites which describe the
> coding
> of an mp3 file and how a digital to analogue converter works, but whats
the
> point?
> Neither contain sound, they just contain data which can be used to produce
> sound
> from the appropiate circuitary, decode either incorrectly or connect to
the
> wrong
> exuipment and you won't hear any sound, more than likely you will damage
> whatever you
> connect it too.
> >
> >
> >
> > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > > > Dave
> > >
> > > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as
usual
> > ;O)
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---------------
> > > regards half_pint
> > >
> > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid
> > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on how
good the converter was."

But a MIDI file can not create a sound. It is simply a set of instructions
for a device that creates sounds based on those instructions, which it then
combines with its own internal architecture to make what you perceive as
noise. In the same way that a pianist reads a printed score, translates that
into hand movements, and combines it with his piano.

An audio file is very different. No extra internal archetecture is required
in the playback device, the device simply outputs an analogue representation
of the digital waveform. In the same way that a cassette will store an
analogue electromagnetic version of the wave, or a record store a
microscopically contoured version of the wave. In all cases the wave 'file'
is exactlt the same and all that differs is the method of storage and
consequant decoding.






"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0tnm1$1cd7cd$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Mr C" <total_incognito@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uittdLY9DHA.1112@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who replied
> were
> > talking sense. I've used another program called something like Wav2MIDI
> and
> > it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware though so
> > give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to
> download
> > the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in your
> > compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or something.
>
> I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
how
> good
> the converter was.
>
> >
> >
> > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
..mid
> ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Mario
> > >
> > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > >
> > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

You keep harping on about both being data files. An in that statement you
are correct.

The key thing you are missing is that data is utterly meaningless. A file
can only contain 1's and 0's. In the same way I could say to you: 29, 93, 74
but these figures are meaningless unless I give them the context of age,
house number, and year of birth.

Only information can have any relevance. Information is data with a context.
The 1's and 0's in an audio file are a direct representation of the sound
pressure wave captured by the microphone or sound source.

The data in a MIDI file is a set of instructions for a synth.

The data in an .exe file is a set of instructions for your CPU.

These are all very different types of data and only of use when a contex is
applied. This is very simple programming and mathematical theory.




"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0vkuf$1ckmdq$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:q8h630lif40pofnvkr5skclk5qo9pb1ir7@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
> > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
> > >> *music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
> > >> musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
> > >
> > >At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
> > >on a speaker essentially.
> > >
> > OK.  One more try.:-)
> >
> >   NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
> > an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
> > play its own sounds.
>
> OK one more try :-)
> How do synthesisers play their sound?
> Answer via a speaker.
> Has the penny dropped?
>
>
> > >
> > >>
> > >> > There is a General Midi specification, that specifies that when
> Program
> > >> > 0 is specified a Piano sound will be played, Program 56, a trumpet
> etc.
> > >> > etc.   But what a particular system produces as "Trumpet" is up for
> > >> > grabs.
> > >
> > >All music files contain a code for  playing music, all codes can be
> > >decoded and translated into a different format.
> >
> > Yes, if they're music files.  Midi isn't.
>
> Neither is a music file, both are data files.
> Computer files contain data 1's and 0's.
> Sound is the vibration of molecules, the molecules of a computer file
> containing data may vibrate may vibrate but I doubt you can hear them
> (I think you will find that probably the computers fan you can hear).
>
> It would me more accurate to say the files are a data pattern and exist
> more as a 'concept' rathan a physical reality.
>
> >
> >      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> > "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
>
>

But that'll prove half pint right!

Shit in -> Shit out! Perfect conversion.




"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.18.00.15.18.950000@ivetva.arg...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:32:42 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>
> >
> > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> >> First hit on google "wav to mid":
> >> http://www.intelliscore.net/
> >> Dave
> >
> > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
;O)
>
> OK then put your S-Club 7, Westlife, Boyzone or whatever WAV thru it and
> see what happens.
>
> -- 
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

Yes it's coded differently,
..wav, .aiff, .au are to .mpeg, .avi, .mov
as .midi is to a movie script.

Converting .wav to .midi is the equivelent of 
converting .mpeg to a word document shooting script,
Starwars.mpeg in, ... Vader: (breathing) "Luke, I am your father." ...
out 

Maybe someday computers will be able to convert wave files to midi, 
and maybe computers will be able to extract a movie script from a movie.

But today we only have the yellow ten yard marker in football games,
and if your lucky, solo flute or clean slow guitar solo to midi
conversion.

Think for yourself,
a .wav file of an classical music album is up to 600meg,
a .mp3 file of the same thing is 100meg, pretty good compression 6:1,
and a .midi file of the same thing is 200k, 300:1 compression.
How can that be?  Why isn't all music recorded as midi?

half_pint wrote:
> 
> "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
> 
> Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> 
> http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/

"Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
> >
>
> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet! After so
> many posts on this thread!
> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?


Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).

Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple format
and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.

Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
but it could be don't.

Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
how to do it its a doddle.

Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
thats because they have an idiot programming it.
Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound like
a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done prefectly.

I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
 but that doesnt change things much.

I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'? automtically
by listening to the music.
And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.

>
> So I will try to explain differently:
>
> 1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just flows of
0
> and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears on your speakers.
>
> BUT
>
> 2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software tools
> can do the wav to mid conversion.
>
> BECAUSE:
>
> There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from Wav to
Mid
> very difficult:
> - wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly, compressed
or
> not (this unique waveform is ),
> - whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note off"
> commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the note from 0 to
> 127, the  of the order, , velocity from 0 to 127). That's why a midi file
> can be compared to a score sheet. In order to produce a waveform, it is
> mandatory to use it into a midi instrument (either software like the
> microsoft default wavetable or hardware like a synthetiser), which will
> generate the final waveform by playing the wavetable sounds as it has been
> defined in the midi file commands.
>
> To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't have,
which
> is essentially the note on and note off informations.
> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a complex wav
> file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note on and note off
> commands. Just because a single note played by an instrument has many many
> frequencies mixed together and because they mix with those of other
> instruments, too. The mathematical models used to analyse songs are poors,
> for now.
> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it too.


Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the frequency
domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal with.

>
>
> SY
> --
> Guillaume Fallet (France)
>
>

They are both essemtially the same.
One is many relatively simple instructions.
The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
to produce essentially the same thing.
Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
mean it cannot be done.
I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could do
it.


"Room102" <askifyiu@gire.com> wrote in message
news:c1069h$2ko$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> "I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
how
> good the converter was."
>
> But a MIDI file can not create a sound.
> It is simply a set of instructions
> for a device that creates sounds based on those instructions, which it
then
> combines with its own internal architecture to make what you perceive as
> noise. In the same way that a pianist reads a printed score, translates
that
> into hand movements, and combines it with his piano.
>
> An audio file is very different. No extra internal archetecture is
required
> in the playback device, the device simply outputs an analogue
representation
> of the digital waveform. In the same way that a cassette will store an
> analogue electromagnetic version of the wave, or a record store a
> microscopically contoured version of the wave. In all cases the wave
'file'
> is exactlt the same and all that differs is the method of storage and
> consequant decoding.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0tnm1$1cd7cd$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Mr C" <total_incognito@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:uittdLY9DHA.1112@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who replied
> > were
> > > talking sense. I've used another program called something like
Wav2MIDI
> > and
> > > it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware though
so
> > > give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to
> > download
> > > the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in your
> > > compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or something.
> >
> > I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> > can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
> how
> > good
> > the converter was.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid
> > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> They are both essemtially the same.
> One is many relatively simple instructions.
> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> to produce essentially the same thing.
> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> mean it cannot be done.
> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could
do
> it.
>

Cool !
If you do it, I pay you a limousine with a lot of girls inside!
You would succeess in a domain that thousand of people is studying since
many years, including professional software editors!
The conversion wav to midi is a wide subject of research, in fact.

Good luck guy!

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:38:43 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> They are both essemtially the same.
> One is many relatively simple instructions.
> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> to produce essentially the same thing.
> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> mean it cannot be done.
> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could do
> it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
news:c1097o$5ea$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
> news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > They are both essemtially the same.
> > One is many relatively simple instructions.
> > The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> > But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> > to produce essentially the same thing.
> > Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> > mean it cannot be done.
> > I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I
could
> do
> > it.
> >
>
> Cool !
> If you do it, I pay you a limousine with a lot of girls inside!
> You would succeess in a domain that thousand of people is studying since
> many years, including professional software editors!
> The conversion wav to midi is a wide subject of research, in fact.

I dooubt you would stick to your side of the bargain.
It doesn't seem particularly complicated to me if you approach
it in the right manner.
That fact that a lot of people can't do it doesn't mean much.
There are lots otf things maany  people  can't do very well,
because thats mainly because they are usseless.

>
> Good luck guy!
>
>

half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> They are both essemtially the same.
> One is many relatively simple instructions.
> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> to produce essentially the same thing.
> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> mean it cannot be done.
> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could do
> it.

All belligerence, no action

http://tinyurl.com/2r8kj

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:22:51 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
>news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
>> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
>> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> >
>> > It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
>> >
>>
>> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet! After so
>> many posts on this thread!
>> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?
>
>
>Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
>files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
>decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
>whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
>complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).

  Wrong.

  Digital to analog conversion doesn't alter the audio information.
Sound is converted into electrical signals, as reasonable perfect
analogs.   Digitizing that gives another way to transport the
converted audio, but it doesn't otherwise alter it.

  MIDI contains NO audio information whatsoever.  None.  Nada.  Any
number of other words meaning the same thing.  All MIDI contains is
instructions -- control signals.  There is no requirement that the
control signals actually produce sound, and in most files, many of
them do not.  MIDI can just as easily -- and does -- control lights,
motors, video cameras, and any other sort of thing which can be
manipulated via a digital command.

  Any chance that your audio file can do that?  Nope.

  MIDI also does NOT map to any particular sound, even when used for
sound generation.  The synth gets instructions, and it uses them to
generate a sound.  A different synth means different sounds (change
the settings on it and you get different sounds).

  Ever try to change a violin into a flute using an audio file?

  It is dead easy with MIDI.

>Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple format
>and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.
>
>Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
>but it could be don't.
>
>Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
>to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
>how to do it its a doddle.

  Language is language, same symbolic meaning.  Audio is signal
amplitude recorded over time.  MIDI is a digital representation of the
musical structure itself.

  Try to convert english to sheet music some time, and see how well
that "conversion" works.

>Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
>thats because they have an idiot programming it.
>Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound like
>a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done prefectly.
>
>I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
> but that doesnt change things much.

  Yes it does.  If you knew more about it you'd have a better idea of
why everyone says that audio to MIDI conversion -- or in general,
audio to any form of music transcription -- is not going to show up in
the conceiveable future.  You're talking about an AI function -- a
true AI. 

>I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'? automtically
>by listening to the music.

  It is the same thing.  Which BTW is just as unavailable to present
technology.

  A human can intelligently listen to music and analyze its structure,
but so far no computer application can do the same thing.  The audio
to MIDI conversion is entirey based on "pitch recognition" -- a fairly
trivial mechanical process of anaylyzing the strongest pitch
waveform..  I say trivial, because electronic "tuning fork" devices
have been around for over half a century now, and audio to MIDI is
still at exactly the same stage of effectiveness.  Computer power has
not miraculously done any better than mid-20th century electronic
hardware.

  Nor is it likely to do so anytime soon.  Something else is needed,
and that something is, in essence, the software equivalent of a
musician's mind.  

  

>And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
>on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.

  Not likely.  But a good arranger could create a symbolic
representation of it using a single tool, the score.  Or its
electronic equivalent, MIDI.

e, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't have,
>which
>> is essentially the note on and note off informations.
>> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a complex wav
>> file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note on and note off
>> commands. Just because a single note played by an instrument has many many
>> frequencies mixed together and because they mix with those of other
>> instruments, too. The mathematical models used to analyse songs are poors,
>> for now.
>> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
>> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it too.
>
>
>Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the frequency
>domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
>I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal with.

  This is sure proof you don't know where you're coming from!  What do
you think current audio to MIDI/scoring applications are trying to do?

  I can't think of any problem more complex which you could work on,
so if you're all ready and capable to find a solution to this one, go
ahead.  You *do* know that the music industry would pay extremely well
for a useful audio to scoring/MIDI application, if any existed?

-- 
*-__Jeffery Jones__________|  *Starfire*   |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>

X-posts out.

half_pint wrote:

> They are both essemtially the same.
In they're digitized, yes. Otherwise, no.
> One is many relatively simple instructions.
> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> to produce essentially the same thing.
Not at all. As you recently stated, you don't know from MIDI.
> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> mean it cannot be done.
Cannot be done now with any satisfactory results for *music*.
> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could do
> it.
> 
Then do it. Post the results in an alt. group with a note here with the 
link.
iVaya con Dios!

J McWilliams

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1073t$1chq5n$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)"
>

Says it all

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:10:09 +0000 (UTC), Room102 <askifyiu@gire.com> 
wrote:

> "I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on 
> how good the converter was."

Yes, you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, the quality of the available 
converters is not up to the task of producing a decent MIDI file. I would 
say you'd need 2-3 orders of magnitude more computer horsepower and about 
2 decades more acoustic research before you'll see anything worthwhile.

Turning sound into MIDI with a computer is like turning hamburger into a 
cow. A whole lot easier going in the other direction.

Regards,
Brian

michael turner wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:00:01 +0000, Laurence Payne wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
>><esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Just to add to this, MIDI actually has more in common with *sheet*
>>>>*music*, than it does WAV, AIFF, etc. In the fact that they're both a
>>>>musical description language/protocol, and do NOT contain samples.
>>>
>>>At the end of the day they both contain a code for moving the diaphram
>>>on a speaker essentially.
>>>
>>
>>OK.  One more try.:-)
>>
>>  NO THEY DON'T.   Audio files do.   Midi files don't.    MIDI is not
>>an audio file format.  It's a set of instruction to a synthesiser to
>>play its own sounds.
> 
> 
> <snipped>
> 
> My guess is that Half_Pint is just trying to get everyone wound up
> (well it is half-term), or he/she/it is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
> 
> Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.
> 

I concluded some time ago that half-pint is just a troll.


-- 
After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have
concluded we must conceal our e-mail address.  Our true address is the
mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol.  It's a shame such
steps are necessary.          ...Charlie

Half_There is something much worse and more despicable than a simple =
troll. Or perhaps social consciousness should play a part in my =
judgment, and I'll simply say that the (whatever it is) should have been =
institutionalized long ago.

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Windows 9x


"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message =
news:4033E126.1000308@prodigy.net...
> I concluded some time ago that half-pint is just a troll.
>=20

Considering the real possibility that recent out-of-control back and =
forth involving Half_There was all really one entity under different =
guises, do you suppose its failure to repro.., er, produce is due to =
time wasted playing with itself?

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Windows 9x


"Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message =
news:e%23watNl9DHA.888@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>=20
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message=20
> >(The usual BS)

> All belligerence, no action
>=20
> http://tinyurl.com/2r8kj
>=20
> 

half-pint here's some things to think about ...

How about taking a deck of cards and deal out all the hands everyone played
(in succession starting with the first hand at table #1) in the last big
money poker tournament. You've got the deck of cards, why would you need to
cheat and watch some video tape of it first?

Or ...

How about I start just sending a stream of bytes past your eyes and you
start telling us when the bytes are from an "exe" file, some image file or
whatever? Converting a waveform to raw midi information is at the least that
difficult a problem, e.g. is this byte from a piano, cymbal, piccalo or
what, is it a harmonic and if so from what, etc. etc.!.

Not saying it "can't be done" as "never" is a dangerous word but ...
remember the wave file is it "all combined" and even though one can isolate
each frequency at a specific time there's no information available to
re-consitute what made that frequency. Remember also that harmonics are
involved that can be augmented, diminished, cancelled out completely and/or
created by interaction with other "notes" being simultaneously played.

Another thing to think about is ...

How the hell when processing any type of "waveform" file is some peice of
software going to determine in "this" instance of time that this specific
frequency "f" was generated by the "p" decay period of a cymbal started "t"
time period ago and loosing "d" decibals and "h" harmonics as it decays
rather than it's  high "c" from a piano hit right "now"??? And don't forget
to throw in that fact that not everything's even in tune let alone tuned to
concert pitch.

If you knew how to play any instrument besides the radio, given your obvious
pc keen-ness you'd have thought of these observations or taken the time to
more fully research the subject and you'd know this.

half_pint wrote:
> "Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
> news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
>> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
>> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>>
>>> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
>>>
>>
>> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet!
>> After so many posts on this thread!
>> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?
>
>
> Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
> files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
> decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
> whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
> complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).
>
> Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple
> format and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.
>
> Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
> but it could be don't.
>
> Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
> to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
> how to do it its a doddle.
>
> Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
> thats because they have an idiot programming it.
> Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound
> like a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done
> prefectly.
>
> I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
>  but that doesnt change things much.
>
> I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'?
> automtically by listening to the music.
> And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
> on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.
>
>>
>> So I will try to explain differently:
>>
>> 1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just
>> flows of 0 and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears
>> on your speakers.
>>
>> BUT
>>
>> 2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software
>> tools can do the wav to mid conversion.
>>
>> BECAUSE:
>>
>> There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from
>> Wav to Mid very difficult:
>> - wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly,
>> compressed or not (this unique waveform is ),
>> - whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note
>> off" commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the note
>> from 0 to 127, the  of the order, , velocity from 0 to 127). That's
>> why a midi file can be compared to a score sheet. In order to
>> produce a waveform, it is mandatory to use it into a midi instrument
>> (either software like the microsoft default wavetable or hardware
>> like a synthetiser), which will generate the final waveform by
>> playing the wavetable sounds as it has been defined in the midi file
>> commands.
>>
>> To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't
>> have, which is essentially the note on and note off informations.
>> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a
>> complex wav file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note
>> on and note off commands. Just because a single note played by an
>> instrument has many many frequencies mixed together and because they
>> mix with those of other instruments, too. The mathematical models
>> used to analyse songs are poors, for now.
>> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
>> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it
>> too.
>
>
> Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the
> frequency domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
> I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal with.
>
>>
>>
>> SY
>> --
>> Guillaume Fallet (France)

Gary S. Terhune <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message news:ejcKs4m9DHA.1428@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Considering the real possibility that recent out-of-control back and forth involving Half_There was all really one entity under
different guises, do you suppose its failure to repro.., er, produce is due to time wasted playing with itself?


You have a way with words, Mr Terhune,
you do indeed have a way with words.

But, to answer your question, the answer is no.
I really don't think he has a proper grasp of the matter in hand.

Which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:08:58 -0800, Hugh Candlin wrote:

> 
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> They are both essemtially the same.
>> One is many relatively simple instructions.
>> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
>> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
>> to produce essentially the same thing.
>> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
>> mean it cannot be done.
>> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could do
>> it.
> 
> All belligerence, no action
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/2r8kj

So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

michael turner <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
>
> So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.

He's a troll, plain and simple.

He intentionally uses lower case, poor spelling and sentence structure
just to draw attention and responses, and switches from posting low-level
"how do I" type questions, to "I am an expert, do as I say, and by the way,
you are an idiot" type responses to other peoples questions, to blatant,
unsupportable claims, such as the Midi conversion issues, or his claim
to have written a replacement for Windows which he promised "by Friday".

He also switches identities and drops out of sight now and then,
until he feels it time to troll a fresh school of Usenet users.

In short, he is just another faceless mindless grain in a desert
of faceless mindless grains who attempt to disrupt Usenet
for reasons which will never make sense to anyone with intelligence.

He has nothing of substance to say, and I doubt that he gets
any satisfaction out of what he wastes his time on this earth on.

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
> thats because they have an idiot programming it.

Excuse me; I'm going to spend 15 minutes with the Oxford Dictionary to 
clean out my mind.

-z

"Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:#C1Rg1n9DHA.1816@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> michael turner <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
> >
> > So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
>
> He's a troll, plain and simple.
>
> He intentionally uses lower case, poor spelling and sentence structure
> just to draw attention and responses, and switches from posting low-level
> "how do I" type questions, to "I am an expert, do as I say, and by the
way,
> you are an idiot" type responses to other peoples questions, to blatant,
> unsupportable claims, such as the Midi conversion issues, or his claim
> to have written a replacement for Windows which he promised "by Friday".
>
> He also switches identities and drops out of sight now and then,
> until he feels it time to troll a fresh school of Usenet users.
>
> In short, he is just another faceless mindless grain in a desert
> of faceless mindless grains who attempt to disrupt Usenet
> for reasons which will never make sense to anyone with intelligence.
>
> He has nothing of substance to say, and I doubt that he gets
> any satisfaction out of what he wastes his time on this earth on.
>
>
You just cannot accept I am more intelligent than you - thats your
problem (one of).

--
---------------
regards half_pint

"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:08:58 -0800, Hugh Candlin wrote:
>
> >
> > half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >> They are both essemtially the same.
> >> One is many relatively simple instructions.
> >> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> >> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> >> to produce essentially the same thing.
> >> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> >> mean it cannot be done.
> >> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I
could do
> >> it.
> >
> > All belligerence, no action


All intelligence no bullshite would be more accurate.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/2r8kj

And I hope you notice how I am correct on *every* topic no matter
how diversified :O|

Bit of a surprise that eh?

>
> So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
> --
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 02:15:38 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:08:58 -0800, Hugh Candlin wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> >> They are both essemtially the same.
>> >> One is many relatively simple instructions.
>> >> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
>> >> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
>> >> to produce essentially the same thing.
>> >> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
>> >> mean it cannot be done.
>> >> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I
> could do
>> >> it.
>> >
>> > All belligerence, no action
> 
> 
> All intelligence no bullshite would be more accurate.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

>> > http://tinyurl.com/2r8kj
> 
> And I hope you notice how I am correct on *every* topic no matter
> how diversified :O|
> 
> Bit of a surprise that eh?

All I seen is some fuckwit who enjoys getting his/her/its ass kicked
around usenet.

>> So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
>> --
>> Michael Turner
>> Email (ROT13)
>> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

Given enough monkeys in front of enough typewriters, one may type 'War and
Peace"  This is possible, but not in the realm of most people's perception
of reality.

No claims were made about anyone's intelligence, in my portion of this
thread.  Feigning a defense for a non-existent attack, a ruse within a ruse.

Computer chess?  Diverging from the subject at hand again.

"I am right after all, as usual", wrong.
Dave

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0vkui$1ckmdq$4@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:3CGYb.1043$oj2.919@lakeread03...
> > Try "Amazing Grace" bagpipe version in wav format to mid.  A Google
search
> > will find the music.  You have the converter.  Should be interesting,
Mr.
> > Right was it?
> > Dave
>
> I am not bothered by actually doing it, all I am say is (give peace a
> chance?)
> tha itt could be done.
>
> Oh and how do you know it was bagpipes?
> If you could tell it was bagpipes then so could my computer.
> You mmight think you are smarter but try playing my computer at chess
> and see how far you get.
> (8 million positions analysed.....)
>
>
> --
> ---------------
> regards half_pint
>
>
> > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > > > Dave
> > >
> > > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as
usual
> > ;O)
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---------------
> > > regards half_pint
> > >
> > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into
> .mid
> > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mario
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

How could you write it, when you can't even write a decent post?  I *know*
Hugh's qualifications, and trust me, they are far above yours.
You are just an immature little twit that can't admit you don't  know
everything.

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0vkuj$1ckmdq$5@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:u##z9Tb9DHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >
> > Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> > > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> > > >>
> > > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of
> 'nouse'.
> > >
> > > OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs that
> > > pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex than
> > > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and post
> > > your result.
> >
> > Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something simple.
> > The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?
> >
> > Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
> > there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.
>
> How would you know?
>
> >
> > All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are correct.
> > "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total enchilada.
> >
> > A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
> > a successful conversion.
> >
> > IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.
>
> It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04

half_pint wrote:

> "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
>
> Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
>
> http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/

It can only work on simple single instruments. Just about works on Paino with
many mistakes - saw an article a year ago about it. Difficult problem. It is a
bit like un-mixing 5 or 6 paints.


Tom

I have a hard time with the concept of you being more intelligent than a rock,
never mind more intelligent than Hugh.  You are now back in the kill file ( I
don't remember how you got out to begin with).

-- 
George (Bindar Dundat �) MS-MVP

For Windows Troubleshooting Tips see;
http://aumha.org/win4/a/tshoot.htm

"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1164n$1d75im$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
|
| "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
| news:#C1Rg1n9DHA.1816@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
| >
| > michael turner <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
| news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
| > >
| > > So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
| >
| > He's a troll, plain and simple.
| >
| > He intentionally uses lower case, poor spelling and sentence structure
| > just to draw attention and responses, and switches from posting low-level
| > "how do I" type questions, to "I am an expert, do as I say, and by the
| way,
| > you are an idiot" type responses to other peoples questions, to blatant,
| > unsupportable claims, such as the Midi conversion issues, or his claim
| > to have written a replacement for Windows which he promised "by Friday".
| >
| > He also switches identities and drops out of sight now and then,
| > until he feels it time to troll a fresh school of Usenet users.
| >
| > In short, he is just another faceless mindless grain in a desert
| > of faceless mindless grains who attempt to disrupt Usenet
| > for reasons which will never make sense to anyone with intelligence.
| >
| > He has nothing of substance to say, and I doubt that he gets
| > any satisfaction out of what he wastes his time on this earth on.
| >
| >
| You just cannot accept I am more intelligent than you - thats your
| problem (one of).
|
| --
| ---------------
| regards half_pint
|
|

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:45:11 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:


>I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one format
>it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
>good the conversion program is.

MIDI is a *control* protocol, and not a sound storage format.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:


>*All* music on played on different hardware (speakers etc.) sounds
>different.

And you are a not particularly good troll.

half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c1164n$1d75im$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:#C1Rg1n9DHA.1816@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >
> > michael turner <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
> > >
> > > So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
> >
> > He's a troll, plain and simple.
> >
> > He intentionally uses lower case, poor spelling and sentence structure
> > just to draw attention and responses, and switches from posting low-level
> > "how do I" type questions, to "I am an expert, do as I say, and by the
> way,
> > you are an idiot" type responses to other peoples questions, to blatant,
> > unsupportable claims, such as the Midi conversion issues, or his claim
> > to have written a replacement for Windows which he promised "by Friday".
> >
> > He also switches identities and drops out of sight now and then,
> > until he feels it time to troll a fresh school of Usenet users.
> >
> > In short, he is just another faceless mindless grain in a desert
> > of faceless mindless grains who attempt to disrupt Usenet
> > for reasons which will never make sense to anyone with intelligence.
> >
> > He has nothing of substance to say, and I doubt that he gets
> > any satisfaction out of what he wastes his time on this earth on.
> >
> You just cannot accept I am more intelligent than you

Congratulations.  Finally, you are 100% correct about something.
_________________________________________________

You may find this difficult to believe, but I wish you no ill will.

You could be anyone, from a juvenile delinquent having what
appears to be "fun", to an adult with a very poor grasp
of mental faculties, to a psychopath with no capacity for self-control.

Your reasons for your behavior are as inconsequential as your posts.

When and IF you ever display any sign of intelligence,
I will gladly acknowledge the fact in this forum,
but so far you have shown yourself to be ignorant of any topic
discussed in these forums, and incapable of constructing
a coherent thought, concept or theory using proper grammar and syntax.

Nobody will ever take you seriously, or mistake you
for a person of intelligence, but that never was your objective.

For those who remotely give a damn, there are about 20 programs
offering to perform WAV/sound to MID conversion listed in the
ALT.MUSIC.MIDI FAQ at
http://home.sc.rr.com/cosmogony/ammfaq.html .  Hang on to your
wallet!  The rest of you may want to back off a second and
consider whether feeding this half_pint troll is worth the
effort.

-- 
Jim Higgins

"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is
a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to
be -- or to be indistinguishable from -- self-righteous
sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
- Neil Stephenson,  "Cryptonomicon"

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:38:43 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
>to produce essentially the same thing.
>Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
>mean it cannot be done.

Then fire away and produce a piece of software that produces a MIDI
file from an orchestral recording.

>I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could do
>it.

Judging by your proud display of your lack of IQ, I would say with a
little more info on the subject you might even learn to wipe your own
ass.

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 02:12:59 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:


>You just cannot accept I am more intelligent than you - thats your
>problem (one of).

Shut to fuck up, troll, nobody was asking your opinion.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:22:51 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
>files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
>decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)

The joke is that you don't realise that most people knew that a long
time ago, and have moved on to something more complex than you would
learn in computer science 101.

>whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
>complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).

Whatever that is.  What a moron you are.

>Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple format
>and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.

So MP3 is not a complex format and requires a simple decoder?

>I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
> but that doesnt change things much.

Of course you don't.  You are a troll.  Trolls generally know fuck all
about fuck all.  They troll to make themselves feel important.

>Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the frequency
>domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.

And you think that has not already been done?

>I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal with.

Yeah, like your lack of sanity.

"Noel" <no.thanks@I.dont.want.your.spam> wrote in message
news:mnr930d3eji81nhmg342t11n3njla8ka9p@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:38:43 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> >to produce essentially the same thing.
> >Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> >mean it cannot be done.
>
> Then fire away and produce a piece of software that produces a MIDI
> file from an orchestral recording.

Perhaps I should wash your car too while I am at it?

>
> >I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could
do
> >it.
>
> Judging by your proud display of your lack of IQ, I would say with a
> little more info on the subject you might even learn to wipe your own
> ass.

You are the only ass-wipe here.
>
>

Noel wrote:

>  ...
> Then fire away and produce a piece of software that produces a MIDI
> file from an orchestral recording.
>  ...


Even an orchestral score would be impressive. :)

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:21:44 +0000, Room102 wrote:

> But that'll prove half pint right!
> 
> Shit in -> Shit out! Perfect conversion.

Ah yeh, good ol' GIGO. 

> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.18.00.15.18.950000@ivetva.arg...
>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:32:42 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
>> > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
>> >> First hit on google "wav to mid":
>> >> http://www.intelliscore.net/
>> >> Dave
>> >
>> > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as usual
> ;O)
>>
>> OK then put your S-Club 7, Westlife, Boyzone or whatever WAV thru it and
>> see what happens.
>>
>> -- 
>> Michael Turner
>> Email (ROT13)
>> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"Noel" <no.thanks@I.dont.want.your.spam> wrote in message
news:jal830t9j3eg1b96600ahik4eg641ohdka@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:45:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >I think you will find sound is sound, if you have sound stored in one
format
> >it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
> >good the conversion program is.
>
> MIDI is a *control* protocol, and not a sound storage format.

A music sheet is a control protocol but it is also used to 'store'
sound.

A midi file is sound stored using the midi *control* protocol
>
>

Well you don't *know* my qualifications so you are talking bull.
If you do know 'em post em.
Post Hugh's IQ too.
Nobody appears to behaving trouble understanding what  I am writing.

--
---------------
regards half_pint



"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OOTo8Cq9DHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> How could you write it, when you can't even write a decent post?  I *know*
> Hugh's qualifications, and trust me, they are far above yours.
> You are just an immature little twit that can't admit you don't  know
> everything.
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0vkuj$1ckmdq$5@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> > "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > news:u##z9Tb9DHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > >
> > > Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message
> > news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> > > > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> > > > >>
> > > > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit of
> > 'nouse'.
> > > >
> > > > OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs that
> > > > pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex
than
> > > > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and
post
> > > > your result.
> > >
> > > Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something simple.
> > > The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?
> > >
> > > Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
> > > there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.
> >
> > How would you know?
> >
> > >
> > > All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are correct.
> > > "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total enchilada.
> > >
> > > A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
> > > a successful conversion.
> > >
> > > IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.
> >
> > It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
>
>

Says the pompous git who shoves meaningless letters after his name.

--
---------------
regards half_pint


"Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OIH7s0m9DHA.1424@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Half_There is something much worse and more despicable than a simple troll.
Or perhaps social consciousness should play a part in my judgment, and I'll
simply say that the (whatever it is) should have been institutionalized long
ago.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Windows 9x


"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4033E126.1000308@prodigy.net...
> I concluded some time ago that half-pint is just a troll.
>

Obviously cos i aint a troll in the first place

--
---------------
regards half_pint

"Noel" <no.thanks@I.dont.want.your.spam> wrote in message
news:akl830h62bt9lrs4tegq2vqblugmu2578a@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:04:21 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >*All* music on played on different hardware (speakers etc.) sounds
> >different.
>
> And you are a not particularly good troll.
>
>

Well given that bacteria and viruses are the most prolofic reproducers
you ain't really saying much.

--
---------------
regards half_pint

"Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ejcKs4m9DHA.1428@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Considering the real possibility that recent out-of-control back and forth
involving Half_There was all really one entity under different guises, do
you suppose its failure to repro.., er, produce is due to time wasted
playing with itself?

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Windows 9x


"Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:e%23watNl9DHA.888@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >(The usual BS)

> All belligerence, no action
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2r8kj
>
>

Well if you want to know how I got out I suggest you go on a computer
basics course.
You might pick up some other usefull info whilest your at it.

--
---------------
regards half_pint


"George (Bindar Dundat)" <JustMe@nothome.net> wrote in message
news:ugJoCXq9DHA.1268@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I have a hard time with the concept of you being more intelligent than a
rock,
> never mind more intelligent than Hugh.  You are now back in the kill file
( I
> don't remember how you got out to begin with).
>
> --
> George (Bindar Dundat �) MS-MVP
>
> For Windows Troubleshooting Tips see;
> http://aumha.org/win4/a/tshoot.htm
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c1164n$1d75im$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> |
> | "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> | news:#C1Rg1n9DHA.1816@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> | >
> | > michael turner <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> | news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
> | > >
> | > > So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
> | >
> | > He's a troll, plain and simple.
> | >
> | > He intentionally uses lower case, poor spelling and sentence structure
> | > just to draw attention and responses, and switches from posting
low-level
> | > "how do I" type questions, to "I am an expert, do as I say, and by the
> | way,
> | > you are an idiot" type responses to other peoples questions, to
blatant,
> | > unsupportable claims, such as the Midi conversion issues, or his claim
> | > to have written a replacement for Windows which he promised "by
Friday".
> | >
> | > He also switches identities and drops out of sight now and then,
> | > until he feels it time to troll a fresh school of Usenet users.
> | >
> | > In short, he is just another faceless mindless grain in a desert
> | > of faceless mindless grains who attempt to disrupt Usenet
> | > for reasons which will never make sense to anyone with intelligence.
> | >
> | > He has nothing of substance to say, and I doubt that he gets
> | > any satisfaction out of what he wastes his time on this earth on.
> | >
> | >
> | You just cannot accept I am more intelligent than you - thats your
> | problem (one of).
> |
> | --
> | ---------------
> | regards half_pint
> |
> |
>

"Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:eX7iE8r9DHA.2672@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1164n$1d75im$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > news:#C1Rg1n9DHA.1816@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > >
> > > michael turner <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2004.02.18.23.39.52.151000@ivetva.arg...
> > > >
> > > > So that's where *half_wit* hangs out. Quite amusing.
> > >
> > > He's a troll, plain and simple.
> > >
> > > He intentionally uses lower case, poor spelling and sentence structure
> > > just to draw attention and responses, and switches from posting
low-level
> > > "how do I" type questions, to "I am an expert, do as I say, and by the
> > way,
> > > you are an idiot" type responses to other peoples questions, to
blatant,
> > > unsupportable claims, such as the Midi conversion issues, or his claim
> > > to have written a replacement for Windows which he promised "by
Friday".
> > >
> > > He also switches identities and drops out of sight now and then,
> > > until he feels it time to troll a fresh school of Usenet users.
> > >
> > > In short, he is just another faceless mindless grain in a desert
> > > of faceless mindless grains who attempt to disrupt Usenet
> > > for reasons which will never make sense to anyone with intelligence.
> > >
> > > He has nothing of substance to say, and I doubt that he gets
> > > any satisfaction out of what he wastes his time on this earth on.
> > >
> > You just cannot accept I am more intelligent than you
>
> Congratulations.  Finally, you are 100% correct about something.
> _________________________________________________
>
> You may find this difficult to believe, but I wish you no ill will.
>
> You could be anyone, from a juvenile delinquent having what
> appears to be "fun", to an adult with a very poor grasp
> of mental faculties, to a psychopath with no capacity for self-control.
>
> Your reasons for your behavior are as inconsequential as your posts.
>
> When and IF you ever display any sign of intelligence,
> I will gladly acknowledge the fact in this forum,
> but so far you have shown yourself to be ignorant of any topic
> discussed in these forums, and incapable of constructing
> a coherent thought, concept or theory using proper grammar and syntax.
>
> Nobody will ever take you seriously, or mistake you
> for a person of intelligence, but that never was your objective.

I doubt you lot would recognise intellligence if a bus load of crashed
before
your eyes.
As for grammer spelling and syntax, I leave that for the people with nothing
better to do.
>
>

"Tom" <somebody@nOpam.com> wrote in message
news:40343D7B.50598878@nOpam.com...
>
>
> half_pint wrote:
>
> > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid
?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mario
> >
> > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> >
> > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
>
> It can only work on simple single instruments. Just about works on Paino
with
> many mistakes - saw an article a year ago about it. Difficult problem. It
is a
> bit like un-mixing 5 or 6 paints.
>
Agreed it may be difficult but it can be done.
I am sure many orchestra conductors could listen to a concert and then
write the score ( or whatever it is called) for every section of the
orchestra.
So it can be done, that fact that noone yet can write a computer program to
do it is a different matter.
It is only recently that computers could defeat the best grand masters at
chess.


--
---------------
regards half_pint

I was just making the point that computers can be programmed to perform
difficult tasks.
Afterall humans can pick out various instruments in an  orchestra and our
minds
are just the same as a well programmed computer.
The attack you imagined was never there.


"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:NXVYb.1309$oj2.307@lakeread03...
> Given enough monkeys in front of enough typewriters, one may type 'War and
> Peace"  This is possible, but not in the realm of most people's perception
> of reality.
>
> No claims were made about anyone's intelligence, in my portion of this
> thread.  Feigning a defense for a non-existent attack, a ruse within a
ruse.
>
> Computer chess?  Diverging from the subject at hand again.
>
> "I am right after all, as usual", wrong.
> Dave
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c0vkui$1ckmdq$4@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> >
> > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > news:3CGYb.1043$oj2.919@lakeread03...
> > > Try "Amazing Grace" bagpipe version in wav format to mid.  A Google
> search
> > > will find the music.  You have the converter.  Should be interesting,
> Mr.
> > > Right was it?
> > > Dave
> >
> > I am not bothered by actually doing it, all I am say is (give peace a
> > chance?)
> > tha itt could be done.
> >
> > Oh and how do you know it was bagpipes?
> > If you could tell it was bagpipes then so could my computer.
> > You mmight think you are smarter but try playing my computer at chess
> > and see how far you get.
> > (8 million positions analysed.....)
> >
> >
> > --
> > ---------------
> > regards half_pint
> >
> >
> > > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c0u4rk$1ap1p0$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > > "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:_ewYb.788$oj2.700@lakeread03...
> > > > > First hit on google "wav to mid":
> > > > > http://www.intelliscore.net/
> > > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm well pretty much as I said, I guess I am right after all, as
> usual
> > > ;O)
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ---------------
> > > > regards half_pint
> > > >
> > > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav
into
> > .mid
> > > ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mario
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Karl" <kd@TAKEOUTbigwig.net> wrote in message
news:c10hg4$2hs$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c1073t$1chq5n$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)"
> >
>
> Says it all

Well not quite all, especially since you cut out the other half of the
sentence.
>
>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> Well you don't *know* my qualifications 

It looks like English is not one of them.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:22:30 +0300, half_pint wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:22:51 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
>>files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
>>decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
> 
> The joke is that you don't realise that most people knew that a long
> time ago, and have moved on to something more complex than you would
> learn in computer science 101.

Hmmmm. 'half_baked' is now talking to him/herself. 

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:25:49 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>A music sheet is a control protocol but it is also used to 'store'
>sound.
>
>A midi file is sound stored using the midi *control* protocol

That stretches the definition of sound storage WAY beyond breaking
point  :-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"pjp" <pjpoirier_is_located_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ewRExJn9DHA.2644@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> half-pint here's some things to think about ...
>
> How about taking a deck of cards and deal out all the hands everyone
played
> (in succession starting with the first hand at table #1) in the last big
> money poker tournament. You've got the deck of cards, why would you need
to
> cheat and watch some video tape of it first?

Not too sure what you are getting at.

>
> Or ...
>
> How about I start just sending a stream of bytes past your eyes and you
> start telling us when the bytes are from an "exe" file, some image file or
> whatever?

Actually I am pretty good at that, although I normally have the bits
converted
into bytes (hexidecimal code) for me by a 'debugger'
I could certaintly recognise a .exe from an image file, even if I was
unfamiliar
with the machine code.
On a fairly simple instruction set (8-bit) I could convert it back into
assembler
code and tell you what the code did.
Very few people program in assembler these days, although some do
(Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corp) to name one. His programs
are tiny compared to ones produced in higher level languages, about
a 100 times smaller (and faster)!!
I could determine most code from text or graphic at a glance.
And I could also recognise things like spreadsheet data from a raw file
(I have actually been paid to do this!).

> Converting a waveform to raw midi information is at the least that
> difficult a problem, e.g. is this byte from a piano, cymbal, piccalo or
> what, is it a harmonic and if so from what, etc. etc.!.



>
> Not saying it "can't be done" as "never" is a dangerous word but ...
> remember the wave file is it "all combined" and even though one can
isolate
> each frequency at a specific time there's no information available to
> re-consitute what made that frequency. Remember also that harmonics are
> involved that can be augmented, diminished, cancelled out completely
and/or
> created by interaction with other "notes" being simultaneously played.

Well you said it, or rather you didn't say it "can't be done".

>
> Another thing to think about is ...
>
> How the hell when processing any type of "waveform" file is some peice of
> software going to determine in "this" instance of time that this specific
> frequency "f" was generated by the "p" decay period of a cymbal started
"t"
> time period ago and loosing "d" decibals and "h" harmonics as it decays
> rather than it's  high "c" from a piano hit right "now"??? And don't
forget
> to throw in that fact that not everything's even in tune let alone tuned
to
> concert pitch.

Well I never said it was going to be easy did I?

>
> If you knew how to play any instrument besides the radio, given your
obvious
> pc keen-ness you'd have thought of these observations or taken the time to
> more fully research the subject and you'd know this.


Well out of tune instruments is a slightly different ball park.
Can a midi play out of tune music?

Oh and speaking of radios, how come radios can pick out a single
station out of that jumble of simultaineous transmissions, thats just not
possible is it?

>
> half_pint wrote:
> > "Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
> > news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
> >> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
> >> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>>
> >>> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
> >>>
> >>
> >> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet!
> >> After so many posts on this thread!
> >> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?
> >
> >
> > Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
> > files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
> > decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
> > whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
> > complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).
> >
> > Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple
> > format and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.
> >
> > Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
> > but it could be don't.
> >
> > Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
> > to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
> > how to do it its a doddle.
> >
> > Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
> > thats because they have an idiot programming it.
> > Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound
> > like a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done
> > prefectly.
> >
> > I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
> >  but that doesnt change things much.
> >
> > I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'?
> > automtically by listening to the music.
> > And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
> > on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.
> >
> >>
> >> So I will try to explain differently:
> >>
> >> 1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just
> >> flows of 0 and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears
> >> on your speakers.
> >>
> >> BUT
> >>
> >> 2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software
> >> tools can do the wav to mid conversion.
> >>
> >> BECAUSE:
> >>
> >> There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from
> >> Wav to Mid very difficult:
> >> - wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly,
> >> compressed or not (this unique waveform is ),
> >> - whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note
> >> off" commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the note
> >> from 0 to 127, the  of the order, , velocity from 0 to 127). That's
> >> why a midi file can be compared to a score sheet. In order to
> >> produce a waveform, it is mandatory to use it into a midi instrument
> >> (either software like the microsoft default wavetable or hardware
> >> like a synthetiser), which will generate the final waveform by
> >> playing the wavetable sounds as it has been defined in the midi file
> >> commands.
> >>
> >> To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't
> >> have, which is essentially the note on and note off informations.
> >> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a
> >> complex wav file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note
> >> on and note off commands. Just because a single note played by an
> >> instrument has many many frequencies mixed together and because they
> >> mix with those of other instruments, too. The mathematical models
> >> used to analyse songs are poors, for now.
> >> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
> >> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it
> >> too.
> >
> >
> > Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the
> > frequency domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
> > I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal with.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> SY
> >> --
> >> Guillaume Fallet (France)
>
>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:53:17 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> As for grammer spelling and syntax, I leave that for the people with nothing
> better to do.

Obviously you're not capable of doing it yourself.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"Jeffery S. Jones" <jeffsj@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:ukd730tb3msfhr23mlabprpqvlkfl5sg0k@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:22:51 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
> >news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
> >> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
> >> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >> >
> >> > It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3 is.
> >> >
> >>
> >> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet! After
so
> >> many posts on this thread!
> >> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my ceiling?
> >
> >
> >Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both data
> >files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder (basically
> >decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
> >whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
> >complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).
>
>   Wrong.

No its right.
>
>   Digital to analog conversion doesn't alter the audio information.
> Sound is converted into electrical signals, as reasonable perfect
> analogs.   Digitizing that gives another way to transport the
> converted audio, but it doesn't otherwise alter it.

There is no sound in the file to convert, its digital data, you only
think it sound because it says .mp3 or .wav or whatever.

No digital file has ever reproduced the analogue input.
Its just an aproximation.

>
>   MIDI contains NO audio information whatsoever.  None.  Nada.  Any
> number of other words meaning the same thing.  All MIDI contains is
> instructions -- control signals.

Neither does a .wav file untill it is decoded as .wav data.

>There is no requirement that the
> control signals actually produce sound, and in most files, many of
> them do not.  MIDI can just as easily -- and does -- control lights,
> motors, video cameras, and any other sort of thing which can be
> manipulated via a digital command.
>
>   Any chance that your audio file can do that?  Nope.

Sure I can run the data from a bit stream through a light bulb.
Do you know what makes that light flicker on the front of your
PC (other than the hackers?) well it certaintly ain't a MIDI.

>
>   MIDI also does NOT map to any particular sound, even when used for
> sound generation.  The synth gets instructions, and it uses them to
> generate a sound.  A different synth means different sounds (change
> the settings on it and you get different sounds).
>
>   Ever try to change a violin into a flute using an audio file?

Never had any good reason for wanting too.
>
>   It is dead easy with MIDI.

I though you said MIDI don't contain sound?
Now its a violin and a flute?

>
> >Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple format
> >and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.
> >
> >Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
> >but it could be don't.
> >
> >Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
> >to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
> >how to do it its a doddle.
>
>   Language is language, same symbolic meaning.  Audio is signal
> amplitude recorded over time.  MIDI is a digital representation of the
> musical structure itself.

But musical structure is not sound because MIDI's don't do sound?
>
>   Try to convert english to sheet music some time, and see how well
> that "conversion" works.

Perfectly given enough time and effort.

>
> >Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
> >thats because they have an idiot programming it.
> >Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound like
> >a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done prefectly.
> >
> >I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
> > but that doesnt change things much.
>
>   Yes it does.  If you knew more about it you'd have a better idea of
> why everyone says that audio to MIDI conversion -- or in general,
> audio to any form of music transcription -- is not going to show up in
> the conceiveable future.  You're talking about an AI function -- a
> true AI.

All intelligence is artifical, including your's, we only think we are really
clever because we are too stupid to realise anything else.
>
> >I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'?
automtically
> >by listening to the music.
>
>   It is the same thing.  Which BTW is just as unavailable to present
> technology.

Well.....I have had other things to do......

>
>   A human can intelligently listen to music and analyze its structure,
> but so far no computer application can do the same thing.  The audio
> to MIDI conversion is entirey based on "pitch recognition" -- a fairly
> trivial mechanical process of anaylyzing the strongest pitch
> waveform..  I say trivial, because electronic "tuning fork" devices
> have been around for over half a century now, and audio to MIDI is
> still at exactly the same stage of effectiveness.  Computer power has
> not miraculously done any better than mid-20th century electronic
> hardware.

True, my computer runs much slower than one I used a decade ago.
Although it costs ten times more!!

>
>   Nor is it likely to do so anytime soon.  Something else is needed,
> and that something is, in essence, the software equivalent of a
> musician's mind.
>
It would help but I doubt it is strictly necessary.
>
>
> >And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
> >on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.
>
>   Not likely.  But a good arranger could create a symbolic
> representation of it using a single tool, the score.  Or its
> electronic equivalent, MIDI.
>
> e, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't have,
> >which
> >> is essentially the note on and note off informations.
> >> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a complex
wav
> >> file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note on and note off
> >> commands. Just because a single note played by an instrument has many
many
> >> frequencies mixed together and because they mix with those of other
> >> instruments, too. The mathematical models used to analyse songs are
poors,
> >> for now.
> >> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
> >> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do it
too.
> >
> >
> >Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the
frequency
> >domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
> >I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal with.
>
>   This is sure proof you don't know where you're coming from!  What do
> you think current audio to MIDI/scoring applications are trying to do?
>
>   I can't think of any problem more complex which you could work on,
> so if you're all ready and capable to find a solution to this one, go
> ahead.  You *do* know that the music industry would pay extremely well
> for a useful audio to scoring/MIDI application, if any existed?

I have as much money as I need, and I can think better ways to waste my
time.

>
> --
> *-__Jeffery Jones__________|  *Starfire*   |____________________-*
> ** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
> *Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>

"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.20.01.21.40.285000@ivetva.arg...
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>
> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications
>
> It looks like English is not one of them.

Strictly speaking English is not a qualification.
Sound's like it ain't one of yours either.
>
> --
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:18:28 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.20.01.21.40.285000@ivetva.arg...
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>>
>> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications
>>
>> It looks like English is not one of them.
> 
> Strictly speaking English is not a qualification.
> Sound's like it ain't one of yours either.

IKYABWAI

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

Baby, (not in the affectionate sense),
Everybody is having trouble reading your sophomoric posts.
Grow up, and read one of the "Dummies" books on newsgroups ettiquette.
You talk about writing code, but you seem to be unable to put together a
plausible sentence.
You are way out of your league here kid.  Even the most gifted of people who
visit this NG are big enough to say "I don't know" when they don't know.
Half_pint, I have nothing personal against you, just lighten up on the
people who frequent here.  There are some truly gifted ones here, who dole
out some truly wonderful advice.  They help others keep their machines
running the way they should be.
You are correct, I *do not* know your age, nor your qualifications, but with
all due respect, I doubt you are as old as I (And that shouldn't have
anything to do with it, as you could be a child prodigy for all I know), but
in *general* your elders may have an upper hand when it comes to general
respect for their fellow man/woman.  If I am even half way right, good-and I
still mean that with respect.
I've been in this NG for almost 4 years, and there is some awesome people
here.  I can get *any* question  answered here, with results I can depend
on.
Bottom line half_pint, I started this post kind of piss** off, but that
won't get any of us anywhere--If the start of my post got you angry, then
maybe I should apologize.
What I wish you would do, be part of all the great solutions, not a problem.
If you have some computer expertise, then by all means , share it with us.
Curt
"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c13lib$1dr601$2@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Well you don't *know* my qualifications so you are talking bull.
> If you do know 'em post em.
> Post Hugh's IQ too.
> Nobody appears to behaving trouble understanding what  I am writing.
>
> --
> ---------------
> regards half_pint
>
>
>
> "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:OOTo8Cq9DHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > How could you write it, when you can't even write a decent post?  I
*know*
> > Hugh's qualifications, and trust me, they are far above yours.
> > You are just an immature little twit that can't admit you don't  know
> > everything.
> >
> > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0vkuj$1ckmdq$5@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:u##z9Tb9DHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > >
> > > > Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> message
> > > news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> > > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> > > > > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit
of
> > > 'nouse'.
> > > > >
> > > > > OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs that
> > > > > pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex
> than
> > > > > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi and
> post
> > > > > your result.
> > > >
> > > > Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something
simple.
> > > > The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?
> > > >
> > > > Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
> > > > there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.
> > >
> > > How would you know?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are
correct.
> > > > "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total enchilada.
> > > >
> > > > A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
> > > > a successful conversion.
> > > >
> > > > IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.
> > >
> > > It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04

I'll bite Michael,
Can you give me a link to that one?
Curt
"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.20.02.35.41.381000@ivetva.arg...
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:18:28 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>
> >
> > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2004.02.20.01.21.40.285000@ivetva.arg...
> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> >>
> >> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications
> >>
> >> It looks like English is not one of them.
> >
> > Strictly speaking English is not a qualification.
> > Sound's like it ain't one of yours either.
>
> IKYABWAI
>
> -- 
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04

Jeez, Curt. Show some initiative.

http://www.google.com/search?q=3DIKYABWAI

--=20
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP for Windows 9x


"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message =
news:%23ljCeN29DHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I'll bite Michael,
> Can you give me a link to that one?
> Curt
> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.20.02.35.41.381000@ivetva.arg...
> > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:18:28 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > > news:pan.2004.02.20.01.21.40.285000@ivetva.arg...
> > >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications
> > >>
> > >> It looks like English is not one of them.
> > >
> > > Strictly speaking English is not a qualification.
> > > Sound's like it ain't one of yours either.
> >
> > IKYABWAI
> >
> > --=20
> > Michael Turner
> > Email (ROT13)
> > zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
>=20
>=20
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
>=20
> 

Hi half_pint,
May I e-mail you?  Is your addy as obvious as it seems?  Not tonight,
probably tomorrow.
Curt
"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%237wQQL29DHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Baby, (not in the affectionate sense),
> Everybody is having trouble reading your sophomoric posts.
> Grow up, and read one of the "Dummies" books on newsgroups ettiquette.
> You talk about writing code, but you seem to be unable to put together a
> plausible sentence.
> You are way out of your league here kid.  Even the most gifted of people
who
> visit this NG are big enough to say "I don't know" when they don't know.
> Half_pint, I have nothing personal against you, just lighten up on the
> people who frequent here.  There are some truly gifted ones here, who dole
> out some truly wonderful advice.  They help others keep their machines
> running the way they should be.
> You are correct, I *do not* know your age, nor your qualifications, but
with
> all due respect, I doubt you are as old as I (And that shouldn't have
> anything to do with it, as you could be a child prodigy for all I know),
but
> in *general* your elders may have an upper hand when it comes to general
> respect for their fellow man/woman.  If I am even half way right, good-and
I
> still mean that with respect.
> I've been in this NG for almost 4 years, and there is some awesome people
> here.  I can get *any* question  answered here, with results I can depend
> on.
> Bottom line half_pint, I started this post kind of piss** off, but that
> won't get any of us anywhere--If the start of my post got you angry, then
> maybe I should apologize.
> What I wish you would do, be part of all the great solutions, not a
problem.
> If you have some computer expertise, then by all means , share it with us.
> Curt
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c13lib$1dr601$2@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications so you are talking bull.
> > If you do know 'em post em.
> > Post Hugh's IQ too.
> > Nobody appears to behaving trouble understanding what  I am writing.
> >
> > --
> > ---------------
> > regards half_pint
> >
> >
> >
> > "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:OOTo8Cq9DHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > How could you write it, when you can't even write a decent post?  I
> *know*
> > > Hugh's qualifications, and trust me, they are far above yours.
> > > You are just an immature little twit that can't admit you don't  know
> > > everything.
> > >
> > > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c0vkuj$1ckmdq$5@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:u##z9Tb9DHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > >
> > > > > Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> > message
> > > > news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> > > > > > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit
> of
> > > > 'nouse'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs
that
> > > > > > pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex
> > than
> > > > > > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi
and
> > post
> > > > > > your result.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something
> simple.
> > > > > The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?
> > > > >
> > > > > Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
> > > > > there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.
> > > >
> > > > How would you know?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are
> correct.
> > > > > "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total
enchilada.
> > > > >
> > > > > A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
> > > > > a successful conversion.
> > > > >
> > > > > IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.
> > > >
> > > > It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:25:49 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:


>A music sheet is a control protocol but it is also used to 'store'
>sound.
>
>A midi file is sound stored using the midi *control* protocol

It is not stored sound.  It contains instructions.  Each synthesiser
will render those instructions in slightly different ways.

Ok, here's an arbitrary sequence of  bytes (in hex), tell me what they're
from (and yes after 20+ years some of it doing embedded assembler stuff etc.
I also can recognize stack frames and the like :)

EF1728DACB23BEFF1

???

Obviously this thread has become a little rediculous as I don't think you
can "prove" it "can't be done" as on some theoritical level anything's
possible is some reality. That's almost where this thread has degenerated
to. Let's just leave it drop at "it ain't gonna happen tomorrow" and you
just keep looking for something that'll convert wav to midi to your liking.
Let us know when you find (or perhaps write) it :)

half_pint wrote:
> "pjp" <pjpoirier_is_located_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ewRExJn9DHA.2644@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> half-pint here's some things to think about ...
>>
>> How about taking a deck of cards and deal out all the hands everyone
>> played (in succession starting with the first hand at table #1) in
>> the last big money poker tournament. You've got the deck of cards,
>> why would you need to cheat and watch some video tape of it first?
>
> Not too sure what you are getting at.
>
>>
>> Or ...
>>
>> How about I start just sending a stream of bytes past your eyes and
>> you start telling us when the bytes are from an "exe" file, some
>> image file or whatever?
>
> Actually I am pretty good at that, although I normally have the bits
> converted
> into bytes (hexidecimal code) for me by a 'debugger'
> I could certaintly recognise a .exe from an image file, even if I was
> unfamiliar
> with the machine code.
> On a fairly simple instruction set (8-bit) I could convert it back
> into assembler
> code and tell you what the code did.
> Very few people program in assembler these days, although some do
> (Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corp) to name one. His programs
> are tiny compared to ones produced in higher level languages, about
> a 100 times smaller (and faster)!!
> I could determine most code from text or graphic at a glance.
> And I could also recognise things like spreadsheet data from a raw
> file (I have actually been paid to do this!).
>
>> Converting a waveform to raw midi information is at the least that
>> difficult a problem, e.g. is this byte from a piano, cymbal, piccalo
>> or what, is it a harmonic and if so from what, etc. etc.!.
>
>
>
>>
>> Not saying it "can't be done" as "never" is a dangerous word but ...
>> remember the wave file is it "all combined" and even though one can
>> isolate each frequency at a specific time there's no information
>> available to re-consitute what made that frequency. Remember also
>> that harmonics are involved that can be augmented, diminished,
>> cancelled out completely and/or created by interaction with other
>> "notes" being simultaneously played.
>
> Well you said it, or rather you didn't say it "can't be done".
>
>>
>> Another thing to think about is ...
>>
>> How the hell when processing any type of "waveform" file is some
>> peice of software going to determine in "this" instance of time that
>> this specific frequency "f" was generated by the "p" decay period of
>> a cymbal started "t" time period ago and loosing "d" decibals and
>> "h" harmonics as it decays rather than it's  high "c" from a piano
>> hit right "now"??? And don't forget to throw in that fact that not
>> everything's even in tune let alone tuned to concert pitch.
>
> Well I never said it was going to be easy did I?
>
>>
>> If you knew how to play any instrument besides the radio, given your
>> obvious pc keen-ness you'd have thought of these observations or
>> taken the time to more fully research the subject and you'd know
>> this.
>
>
> Well out of tune instruments is a slightly different ball park.
> Can a midi play out of tune music?
>
> Oh and speaking of radios, how come radios can pick out a single
> station out of that jumble of simultaineous transmissions, thats just
> not possible is it?
>
>>
>> half_pint wrote:
>>> "Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
>>> news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
>>>> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
>>>> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>>>>
>>>>> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3
>>>>> is.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet!
>>>> After so many posts on this thread!
>>>> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my
>>>> ceiling?
>>>
>>>
>>> Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both
>>> data files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder
>>> (basically decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
>>> whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
>>> complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).
>>>
>>> Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple
>>> format and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.
>>>
>>> Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
>>> but it could be don't.
>>>
>>> Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
>>> to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
>>> how to do it its a doddle.
>>>
>>> Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
>>> thats because they have an idiot programming it.
>>> Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound
>>> like a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done
>>> prefectly.
>>>
>>> I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
>>>  but that doesnt change things much.
>>>
>>> I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'?
>>> automtically by listening to the music.
>>> And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
>>> on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So I will try to explain differently:
>>>>
>>>> 1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just
>>>> flows of 0 and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears
>>>> on your speakers.
>>>>
>>>> BUT
>>>>
>>>> 2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software
>>>> tools can do the wav to mid conversion.
>>>>
>>>> BECAUSE:
>>>>
>>>> There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from
>>>> Wav to Mid very difficult:
>>>> - wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly,
>>>> compressed or not (this unique waveform is ),
>>>> - whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note
>>>> off" commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the
>>>> note from 0 to 127, the  of the order, , velocity from 0 to 127).
>>>> That's why a midi file can be compared to a score sheet. In order
>>>> to produce a waveform, it is mandatory to use it into a midi
>>>> instrument (either software like the microsoft default wavetable
>>>> or hardware like a synthetiser), which will generate the final
>>>> waveform by playing the wavetable sounds as it has been defined in
>>>> the midi file commands.
>>>>
>>>> To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't
>>>> have, which is essentially the note on and note off informations.
>>>> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a
>>>> complex wav file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note
>>>> on and note off commands. Just because a single note played by an
>>>> instrument has many many frequencies mixed together and because
>>>> they mix with those of other instruments, too. The mathematical
>>>> models used to analyse songs are poors, for now.
>>>> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
>>>> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do
>>>> it too.
>>>
>>>
>>> Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the
>>> frequency domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
>>> I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal
>>> with.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SY
>>>> --
>>>> Guillaume Fallet (France)

In article <9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com>, 
mandm@flashnet.it says...
> Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav into .mid ?
> 

gx:transcoder is a great conversion tool:

download link
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail.php3?fid=1041539980

homepage
http://www.germanixsoft.de/

PS: I didn't know this topic was so sensitive! More than a hundred 
replies to one simple question... It's almost pathetic ;-)

Is this newsgroup moderated?
If not, I suggest to stop feeding the half pint troll, we all know the
answer to his question, now it's time to close this endless thread.
The only way to kill this thread is that we stop answering to half pint.

He is playing with us. Really.
Please close this thread.

Well for a start I would obviously need a reasonable amount of data
to work with, why not give me just one byte or just one bit to make it
really hard?
I see you were afraid to provide a reasonable example and you didn't
even  use a whole number of bytes to give yourself some credibility.
Your statement "Ok, here's an arbitrary sequence of  bytes (in hex), "
is a nonsense because there are not a whole number of bytes.

Oh and you can prove "something can't be done", there are thousands
of mathematical proofs to show that certain things  "can't be done".

--
---------------
regards half_pint

"pjp" <pjpoirier_is_located_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eex3EP49DHA.3792@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Ok, here's an arbitrary sequence of  bytes (in hex), tell me what they're
> from (and yes after 20+ years some of it doing embedded assembler stuff
etc.
> I also can recognize stack frames and the like :)
>
> EF1728DACB23BEFF1
>
> ???
>
> Obviously this thread has become a little rediculous as I don't think you
> can "prove" it "can't be done" as on some theoritical level anything's
> possible is some reality. That's almost where this thread has degenerated
> to. Let's just leave it drop at "it ain't gonna happen tomorrow" and you
> just keep looking for something that'll convert wav to midi to your
liking.
> Let us know when you find (or perhaps write) it :)
>
> half_pint wrote:
> > "pjp" <pjpoirier_is_located_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ewRExJn9DHA.2644@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> >> half-pint here's some things to think about ...
> >>
> >> How about taking a deck of cards and deal out all the hands everyone
> >> played (in succession starting with the first hand at table #1) in
> >> the last big money poker tournament. You've got the deck of cards,
> >> why would you need to cheat and watch some video tape of it first?
> >
> > Not too sure what you are getting at.
> >
> >>
> >> Or ...
> >>
> >> How about I start just sending a stream of bytes past your eyes and
> >> you start telling us when the bytes are from an "exe" file, some
> >> image file or whatever?
> >
> > Actually I am pretty good at that, although I normally have the bits
> > converted
> > into bytes (hexidecimal code) for me by a 'debugger'
> > I could certaintly recognise a .exe from an image file, even if I was
> > unfamiliar
> > with the machine code.
> > On a fairly simple instruction set (8-bit) I could convert it back
> > into assembler
> > code and tell you what the code did.
> > Very few people program in assembler these days, although some do
> > (Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corp) to name one. His programs
> > are tiny compared to ones produced in higher level languages, about
> > a 100 times smaller (and faster)!!
> > I could determine most code from text or graphic at a glance.
> > And I could also recognise things like spreadsheet data from a raw
> > file (I have actually been paid to do this!).
> >
> >> Converting a waveform to raw midi information is at the least that
> >> difficult a problem, e.g. is this byte from a piano, cymbal, piccalo
> >> or what, is it a harmonic and if so from what, etc. etc.!.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Not saying it "can't be done" as "never" is a dangerous word but ...
> >> remember the wave file is it "all combined" and even though one can
> >> isolate each frequency at a specific time there's no information
> >> available to re-consitute what made that frequency. Remember also
> >> that harmonics are involved that can be augmented, diminished,
> >> cancelled out completely and/or created by interaction with other
> >> "notes" being simultaneously played.
> >
> > Well you said it, or rather you didn't say it "can't be done".
> >
> >>
> >> Another thing to think about is ...
> >>
> >> How the hell when processing any type of "waveform" file is some
> >> peice of software going to determine in "this" instance of time that
> >> this specific frequency "f" was generated by the "p" decay period of
> >> a cymbal started "t" time period ago and loosing "d" decibals and
> >> "h" harmonics as it decays rather than it's  high "c" from a piano
> >> hit right "now"??? And don't forget to throw in that fact that not
> >> everything's even in tune let alone tuned to concert pitch.
> >
> > Well I never said it was going to be easy did I?
> >
> >>
> >> If you knew how to play any instrument besides the radio, given your
> >> obvious pc keen-ness you'd have thought of these observations or
> >> taken the time to more fully research the subject and you'd know
> >> this.
> >
> >
> > Well out of tune instruments is a slightly different ball park.
> > Can a midi play out of tune music?
> >
> > Oh and speaking of radios, how come radios can pick out a single
> > station out of that jumble of simultaineous transmissions, thats just
> > not possible is it?
> >
> >>
> >> half_pint wrote:
> >>> "Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
> >>> news:c10154$1j6$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
> >>>> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> a �crit dans le message de
> >>>> news:c0vtfj$1cpldp$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is data which can be decoded to produce sound, just as a mp3
> >>>>> is.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No, I can't believe you haven't understood the difference, yet!
> >>>> After so many posts on this thread!
> >>>> It's a joke? It there an hidden camcorder in a corner of my
> >>>> ceiling?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Not really a joke you don't seem to appreciate that they are both
> >>> data files, one is complex data which requires a simple decoder
> >>> (basically decompression code and a digital to analogue converter)
> >>> whilst the other is relatively simple (crude) data which requires a
> >>> complex decoder (presumably a midi (whatever that is)).
> >>>
> >>> Put slightly differently one is a vast amount of  data in a simple
> >>> format and the other is a small amount  data in a complex format.
> >>>
> >>> Granted it is much harder to convert into the complex format
> >>> but it could be don't.
> >>>
> >>> Its rather like converting from a foreign language into english,
> >>> to the untrained ear it just sounds like a noise but one you know
> >>> how to do it its a doddle.
> >>>
> >>> Ok computers are not very good at understanding speach but
> >>> thats because they have an idiot programming it.
> >>> Same with making midi files, if its a badly done hash it will sound
> >>> like a badly done hash, but thats not to say it could not be done
> >>> prefectly.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know much about MIDI's by the way (nor music reallly)
> >>>  but that doesnt change things much.
> >>>
> >>> I think its a bit like a computer writing the musical 'score'?
> >>> automtically by listening to the music.
> >>> And presumably a musician could play the music of a whole orchestra
> >>> on a single instrument (triangle perhaps?)  *if* he was good enough.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So I will try to explain differently:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1/ Yes, you're right when you say that both file formats are just
> >>>> flows of 0 and 1 and that at the end there is a music which appears
> >>>> on your speakers.
> >>>>
> >>>> BUT
> >>>>
> >>>> 2/ No, I'm sorry you're wrong when saying that some actual software
> >>>> tools can do the wav to mid conversion.
> >>>>
> >>>> BECAUSE:
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a fundamental difference which makes the conversion from
> >>>> Wav to Mid very difficult:
> >>>> - wav / mp3 files contain the waveform of the sound directly,
> >>>> compressed or not (this unique waveform is ),
> >>>> - whereas a midi file only contains a list of "note on" and "note
> >>>> off" commands, each having parameters (namely the number of the
> >>>> note from 0 to 127, the  of the order, , velocity from 0 to 127).
> >>>> That's why a midi file can be compared to a score sheet. In order
> >>>> to produce a waveform, it is mandatory to use it into a midi
> >>>> instrument (either software like the microsoft default wavetable
> >>>> or hardware like a synthetiser), which will generate the final
> >>>> waveform by playing the wavetable sounds as it has been defined in
> >>>> the midi file commands.
> >>>>
> >>>> To resume, the midi file format has a thing the wav file doesn't
> >>>> have, which is essentially the note on and note off informations.
> >>>> Today, there is no tool sufficiently intelligent to "listen" a
> >>>> complex wav file (unless very simple wav files) and deduce the note
> >>>> on and note off commands. Just because a single note played by an
> >>>> instrument has many many frequencies mixed together and because
> >>>> they mix with those of other instruments, too. The mathematical
> >>>> models used to analyse songs are poors, for now.
> >>>> But of course, it does not mean that such a tool will never exist.
> >>>> After all, if our brain can do it, a computer would be able to do
> >>>> it too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Computers would probably have more success if they moved into the
> >>> frequency domain using fourier transforms to analyse the sound.
> >>> I would do it my myself but I have more complex problems to deal
> >>> with.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> SY
> >>>> --
> >>>> Guillaume Fallet (France)
>
>

Yes, I'm the modrator.
Sling your hook!!!

--
---------------
regards half_pint



"Guillaume Fallet" <gfallet.nosp@m.tiscali.fr> wrote in message
news:c14i2h$voo$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net...
> Is this newsgroup moderated?
> If not, I suggest to stop feeding the half pint troll, we all know the
> answer to his question, now it's time to close this endless thread.
> The only way to kill this thread is that we stop answering to half pint.
>
> He is playing with us. Really.
> Please close this thread.
>
>
>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:49:27 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Yes, I'm the modrator.

The poor troll cant even spell moderator.

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:49:27 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> Yes, I'm the modrator.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...You stupid fucktard.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:41:13 -0600, Curt Christianson wrote:

> I'll bite Michael,
> Can you give me a link to that one?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IKYABWAI

> "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.02.20.02.35.41.381000@ivetva.arg...
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:18:28 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
>> > news:pan.2004.02.20.01.21.40.285000@ivetva.arg...
>> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications
>> >>
>> >> It looks like English is not one of them.
>> >
>> > Strictly speaking English is not a qualification.
>> > Sound's like it ain't one of yours either.
>>
>> IKYABWAI
>>
>> -- 
>> Michael Turner
>> Email (ROT13)
>> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

michael turner wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:41:13 -0600, Curt Christianson wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'll bite Michael,
>>Can you give me a link to that one?
> 
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IKYABWAI
> 
  Dictionary sadly lacking in punctuation: they have:

	   I Know You Are But What Am I

Which should be:     I Know You Are, But What Am I?

Glad this thread is getting interesting again.

John McWilliams

-- 
Two vultures board an airplane, each carrying two dead
raccoons. The flight attendant looks at them and says, "I'm sorry, 
gentlemen, only one carrion allowed per passenger."

Hear, hear.

I'm not one to take notice of who posts posts. I just tend to read the
content. I guess I havn't been here long enough.

You'lll be the first board member I commit to memory.

Well said.






"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%237wQQL29DHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Baby, (not in the affectionate sense),
> Everybody is having trouble reading your sophomoric posts.
> Grow up, and read one of the "Dummies" books on newsgroups ettiquette.
> You talk about writing code, but you seem to be unable to put together a
> plausible sentence.
> You are way out of your league here kid.  Even the most gifted of people
who
> visit this NG are big enough to say "I don't know" when they don't know.
> Half_pint, I have nothing personal against you, just lighten up on the
> people who frequent here.  There are some truly gifted ones here, who dole
> out some truly wonderful advice.  They help others keep their machines
> running the way they should be.
> You are correct, I *do not* know your age, nor your qualifications, but
with
> all due respect, I doubt you are as old as I (And that shouldn't have
> anything to do with it, as you could be a child prodigy for all I know),
but
> in *general* your elders may have an upper hand when it comes to general
> respect for their fellow man/woman.  If I am even half way right, good-and
I
> still mean that with respect.
> I've been in this NG for almost 4 years, and there is some awesome people
> here.  I can get *any* question  answered here, with results I can depend
> on.
> Bottom line half_pint, I started this post kind of piss** off, but that
> won't get any of us anywhere--If the start of my post got you angry, then
> maybe I should apologize.
> What I wish you would do, be part of all the great solutions, not a
problem.
> If you have some computer expertise, then by all means , share it with us.
> Curt
> "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c13lib$1dr601$2@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications so you are talking bull.
> > If you do know 'em post em.
> > Post Hugh's IQ too.
> > Nobody appears to behaving trouble understanding what  I am writing.
> >
> > --
> > ---------------
> > regards half_pint
> >
> >
> >
> > "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:OOTo8Cq9DHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > How could you write it, when you can't even write a decent post?  I
> *know*
> > > Hugh's qualifications, and trust me, they are far above yours.
> > > You are just an immature little twit that can't admit you don't  know
> > > everything.
> > >
> > > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c0vkuj$1ckmdq$5@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:u##z9Tb9DHA.2412@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > >
> > > > > Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> > message
> > > > news:hqa530h3qtek1nhtoph2d698u5srsi3lum@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:11:11 -0000, "half_pint"
> > > > > > <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> It's been done, but only for very simple sounds.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >Well it sounds perfectly possible to me, it just requires a bit
> of
> > > > 'nouse'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK.   Try.   There are demo versions of some of the programs
that
> > > > > > pretend to do this.   Take a soundfile of something more complex
> > than
> > > > > > a single instrument playing something simple, convert to midi
and
> > post
> > > > > > your result.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or, take a soundfile of a single instrument playing something
> simple.
> > > > > The drums?  Perfect.  What could be simpler than the drums?
> > > > >
> > > > > Rat-a-tat-tat.  For those who aren't into music,
> > > > > there isn't a piece of software in the world that can do it.
> > > >
> > > > How would you know?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the people who have stated that it cannot be done are
> correct.
> > > > > "It" , of course, refers to the whole shebang.  The total
enchilada.
> > > > >
> > > > > A couple of notes correct here and there does not constitute
> > > > > a successful conversion.
> > > > >
> > > > > IT is simple.  IT cannot be done.  IT is that simple.
> > > >
> > > > It can be done, granted you couldn't do it.....but I could :O)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
>
>

They are not both sets of instructions. That's the whole point.

MIDI is a set of instructions. .wav et al are binary representations of an
electrical representation of changes in air pressure.


"half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c10826$1cqi47$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> They are both essemtially the same.
> One is many relatively simple instructions.
> The other is a few relatively complex instructions.
> But at the end of the day they are both are a set of instructions
> to produce essentially the same thing.
> Obviously translating between the two is complex but that doesn't
> mean it cannot be done.
> I am fairly confident that with a little more info on the subject I could
do
> it.
>
>
> "Room102" <askifyiu@gire.com> wrote in message
> news:c1069h$2ko$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > "I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the sound
> > can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend on
> how
> > good the converter was."
> >
> > But a MIDI file can not create a sound.
> > It is simply a set of instructions
> > for a device that creates sounds based on those instructions, which it
> then
> > combines with its own internal architecture to make what you perceive as
> > noise. In the same way that a pianist reads a printed score, translates
> that
> > into hand movements, and combines it with his piano.
> >
> > An audio file is very different. No extra internal archetecture is
> required
> > in the playback device, the device simply outputs an analogue
> representation
> > of the digital waveform. In the same way that a cassette will store an
> > analogue electromagnetic version of the wave, or a record store a
> > microscopically contoured version of the wave. In all cases the wave
> 'file'
> > is exactlt the same and all that differs is the method of storage and
> > consequant decoding.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0tnm1$1cd7cd$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Mr C" <total_incognito@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:uittdLY9DHA.1112@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > Reading the FAQs on that makes it sound like the other two who
replied
> > > were
> > > > talking sense. I've used another program called something like
> Wav2MIDI
> > > and
> > > > it was poo. Amazing MIDI (as offered in that link) is freeware
though
> so
> > > > give it a go. I'm sceptical however... a better option might be to
> > > download
> > > > the MIDI file of the song you want to transcribe and use that in
your
> > > > compositions. Try a search on google for 'MIDI library' or
something.
> > >
> > > I would have thought if a MIDI file can create the sound then the
sound
> > > can be used to create a suitable MIDI file, the quality would depend
on
> > how
> > > good
> > > the converter was.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "half_pint" <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:c0tj2e$1aqii8$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mario" <mandm@flashnet.it> wrote in message
> > > > > news:9ae829af.0402170528.3e79370d@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > Is there any way to convert sound files in .aiff .au or .wav
into
> > .mid
> > > ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mario
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I would have thought so, its just coded differently,
> > > > > i'm not sure what the other two guys  are on about.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.pluto.dti.ne.jp/~araki/amazingmidi/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:00:06 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> bit like un-mixing 5 or 6 paints.
>>
>Agreed it may be difficult but it can be done.
>I am sure many orchestra conductors could listen to a concert and then
>write the score ( or whatever it is called) for every section of the
>orchestra.

Bach is reputed to have done just that.   Most of us lesser mortals
need rather longer with a recording.

>So it can be done, that fact that noone yet can write a computer program to
>do it is a different matter.
>It is only recently that computers could defeat the best grand masters at
>chess.


Phew!  At last you've admitted that it can't currently be done.    :-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

I'm sorry both Michael and Gary, I had no idea.
Curt
"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.20.14.07.59.769000@ivetva.arg...
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:41:13 -0600, Curt Christianson wrote:
>
> > I'll bite Michael,
> > Can you give me a link to that one?
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IKYABWAI
>
> > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2004.02.20.02.35.41.381000@ivetva.arg...
> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:18:28 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
> >> > news:pan.2004.02.20.01.21.40.285000@ivetva.arg...
> >> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:30:24 +0000, half_pint wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Well you don't *know* my qualifications
> >> >>
> >> >> It looks like English is not one of them.
> >> >
> >> > Strictly speaking English is not a qualification.
> >> > Sound's like it ain't one of yours either.
> >>
> >> IKYABWAI
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Michael Turner
> >> Email (ROT13)
> >> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
>
> -- 
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/04

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:06:14 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Afterall humans can pick out various instruments in an  orchestra and our
>minds
>are just the same as a well programmed computer.


Now, that's a VERY provocative statement :-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:10:44 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>True, my computer runs much slower than one I used a decade ago.
>Although it costs ten times more!!


er.....what planet are you on again?


(OK, I know I'm troll-feeding :-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:l1fd3091v9na25fd97h3hd597vgl226ait@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:06:14 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Afterall humans can pick out various instruments in an  orchestra and our
> >minds
> >are just the same as a well programmed computer.
>
>
> Now, that's a VERY provocative statement :-)
>

I do apologise I meant to say our minds are just the same as a very
badly programmed computer.

--
---------------
regards half_pint

>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:93fd30l7j17i0rbsqbmch3pd2ig4jojj9m@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:10:44 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >True, my computer runs much slower than one I used a decade ago.
> >Although it costs ten times more!!
>
>
> er.....what planet are you on again?

Planet reality I'm afraid, how are things on planet bloatware by the way?

I could complete a task on my old computer before this one booted up
(assuming it could actually manage that "non-task"), and it could also
shut down  without locking up. So it is no surprise that the bit in between
start-up and shut down was also a pile of shite. Obviously my old computer
was not running any microduft software.
>
>
> (OK, I know I'm troll-feeding :-)
>
>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:19:13 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> 
> 
> "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:93fd30l7j17i0rbsqbmch3pd2ig4jojj9m@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:10:44 -0000, "half_pint"
>> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >True, my computer runs much slower than one I used a decade ago.
>> >Although it costs ten times more!!
>>
>>
>> er.....what planet are you on again?
> 
> Planet reality I'm afraid, how are things on planet bloatware by the way?


X-MimeOLE:          Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-Newsreader:       Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000

Well you're well and truely on 'planet bloatware'. Had any good virii
recently ? 

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:07:07 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I do apologise I meant to say our minds are just the same as a very
>badly programmed computer.

Speak for yourself!

(Oh, sorry,.  You are.  No, your mind lacks the logic of even a
badly-programmed computer).

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:07:07 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> I do apologise I meant to say our minds are just the same as a very
> badly programmed computer.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"michael turner" <zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.22.00.34.55.225000@ivetva.arg...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:19:13 +0000, half_pint wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message
> > news:93fd30l7j17i0rbsqbmch3pd2ig4jojj9m@4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:10:44 -0000, "half_pint"
> >> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >True, my computer runs much slower than one I used a decade ago.
> >> >Although it costs ten times more!!
> >>
> >>
> >> er.....what planet are you on again?
> >
> > Planet reality I'm afraid, how are things on planet bloatware by the
way?
>
>
> X-MimeOLE:          Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
> X-Newsreader:       Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
>
> Well you're well and truely on 'planet bloatware'. Had any good virii
> recently ?

Well I don't have much option do I? Other than LINUX which I may try
again now I have more drive space.
I've only had some ad-ware nothing serious.
It a better setup than windowsXP as far as virii go IMO.
>
> --
> Michael Turner
> Email (ROT13)
> zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:r1vf30ljtd4ocqrohhuqqg47rimvcq1vsc@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:07:07 -0000, "half_pint"
> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I do apologise I meant to say our minds are just the same as a very
> >badly programmed computer.
>
> Speak for yourself!
>
> (Oh, sorry,.  You are.  No, your mind lacks the logic of even a
> badly-programmed computer).

See what I mean, your mind has convinced you that I don't know
what I am talking about and that you do.
There is a major fault in your ego section.

>
>      CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Crossposting snipped to the only group in the list I read. I also sent this
to half-pint via email, in case he doesn't check here.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 03:29:12 -0000, half_pint wrote:

> "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:r1vf30ljtd4ocqrohhuqqg47rimvcq1vsc@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:07:07 -0000, "half_pint"
>> <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I do apologise I meant to say our minds are just the same as a very
>>>badly programmed computer.
>>
>> Speak for yourself!
>>
>> (Oh, sorry,.  You are.  No, your mind lacks the logic of even a
>> badly-programmed computer).
> 
> See what I mean, your mind has convinced you that I don't know
> what I am talking about and that you do.
> There is a major fault in your ego section.

In that case, how do you convert .wav .au or .aiff files into .mid? <g>

You might enjoy doing a search on the subject. I'll bet there are lots of
DSP type papers to be found on it.

The problem is that each instrument's tone has lots of frequency
components. When several instruments play at once, humans can tell them
apart, but the signal of the combined sounds is so complex that we haven't
been able to separate out the instruments. All of the frequency components
are mixed together and components from different instruments at the same
frequency add together. There are also artifacts (unexpected frequencies)
due to the fact that two different frequencies mixed together produce two
new frequencies, the sum of the frequencies and their difference. Then the
sums and differences of several instruments interact. It's quite a mess
really.

If you'd like to contribute to the solution of this very difficult problem,
you might consider contacting the media lab at MIT, and find out who's
working on it at the moment. If not there, try CCRMA at Stanford, or IRCAM
in Paris. Better brush up on calculus and transforms though.

BTW, there are MIDI controllers for guitars and other instruments that can
track single notes and output a midi stream. That's analog to midi, but one
could convert digital forms such as .wav files back to analog (which is
done whenever you play it), and do the conversion to MIDI. But again, they
only deal with one note at a time, and sometimes poorly. It takes a good
portion of one period to recognize the frequency (period = 1/frequency).
This leads to a delay problem, and separates the men from the boys so to
speak, in the MIDI controller biz. After all, musicians need to work in
real time. In the case of the guitar, there are sensors under each string,
if I remember correctly, so it's still one note at a time.

Hope this helps.
-- 
Barry

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 03:29:12 -0000, "half_pint"
<esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> (Oh, sorry,.  You are.  No, your mind lacks the logic of even a
>> badly-programmed computer).
>
>See what I mean, your mind has convinced you that I don't know
>what I am talking about and that you do.
>There is a major fault in your ego section.

Good game this, isn't it?  :-)

You know you're trolling.
I know you're trolling.
Everybody else knows you're trolling.

I might amuse myself with a retort to a particularly silly statement.

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

In article <c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I think you will find sound is sound 

You can convert between various formats of audio files, certainly.

There are very few ways to convert from audio files to MIDI files, and
those programs that exist, barely work at all.

if you have sound stored in one format
>it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
>good the conversion program is.

You make that understatement as if it's some sort of small problem that
can be dealt with.  Have you actually tried to convert a wave file to
MIDI?  

In article <c0u516$1blbug$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
>decoding, just like the midi file will be.

Not at all.  A MIDI file is converted to sound by a process that is
completely outside the file.  You do not appear to know what MIDI is,
at even the most basic level, yet you are carrying on an argument with
them.

It would be nice to have software that could really convert wav to midi,
even if all it managed to do was extract drum tracks.  We're a long,
long, long, long, long way off from having software that can take an 
orchestra CD and render a score.  

In article <4032e4e7@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
Fred P <Fredp56NOSWEAT@tpg.com.au> wrote:

>A midi file does not "contain" any sound what so ever.

As I read this, I'm downloading wavetables into one of my synths via sysex. :-)

In article <c0vdqo$1brb3g$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I suppose it would lose to Kasparof at chess to because chess is 'too
>complex' for a dumb computer?

Chess is a hell of a lot easier than reversing an arbitrary Fourier transform.

In article <c13lib$1dr601$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>A music sheet is a control protocol but it is also used to 'store'
>sound.

No, the sound is stored in the strings of my piano.  The only sound
"stored" in the sheet music is the fwap-fwap-fwap of the pages or the 
thud if I drop a fake book on your head.

>A midi file is sound stored using the midi *control* protocol

A battery stores power.  A picture of a battery with a list of 
the materials used does not.

lol

andy
xx

In article <c106q1$p13$1@sparta.btinternet.com>,
Room102 <askifyiu@gire.com> wrote:

>These are all very different types of data and only of use when a contex is
>applied. This is very simple programming and mathematical theory.

A more interesting way of putting half-pint's question would be, "What
software will convert music WAVs to GIF images?"  (After all, it's all
just 1's and 0's.)

The question is, do you want the images to look like anything in
particular, or are you just looking for a pseudorandom visualization?

Likewise, you could make a midi file from any source.  You could get
velocity and pitch messages from whatever pattern of bytes you wanted.
You might even end up with something quite nice.  But this method isn't
going to turn a Symphony into a Score, any more than my image idea is
going to turn a symphony into an oil painting.

    "james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:aO62c.31848$qL1.23983@fed1read02...
> In article <c0tnh1$1ccm0r$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I think you will find sound is sound
>
> You can convert between various formats of audio files, certainly.
>
> There are very few ways to convert from audio files to MIDI files, and
> those programs that exist, barely work at all.

Well obviously if they are free you can hardly complain as you haven't
spent anything. What do you expect for nothing?
>
> if you have sound stored in one format
> >it can be converted into another, how good the results are depends on how
> >good the conversion program is.
>
> You make that understatement as if it's some sort of small problem that
> can be dealt with.  Have you actually tried to convert a wave file to
> MIDI?

I would imagine the process is relatively simple if you know your stuff.
>

"james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:WQ62c.31849$qL1.17335@fed1read02...
> In article <c0u516$1blbug$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >And .wav and mp3 are not sound either, they are converted into sound by
> >decoding, just like the midi file will be.
>
> Not at all.  A MIDI file is converted to sound by a process that is
> completely outside the file.  You do not appear to know what MIDI is,
> at even the most basic level, yet you are carrying on an argument with
> them.

I do no what midi is in principle although I have never used it.
>
> It would be nice to have software that could really convert wav to midi,
> even if all it managed to do was extract drum tracks.  We're a long,
> long, long, long, long way off from having software that can take an
> orchestra CD and render a score.

Probably only due to lack of effort or brains.
>
>

"james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:HV62c.31852$qL1.7626@fed1read02...
> In article <c0vdqo$1brb3g$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I suppose it would lose to Kasparof at chess to because chess is 'too
> >complex' for a dumb computer?
>
> Chess is a hell of a lot easier than reversing an arbitrary Fourier
transform.

Not necessarilly, if you know what you are doing its probably a rather
straight forward process.
>

"james" <fishbowl@conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:jY62c.31853$qL1.26224@fed1read02...
> In article <c13lib$1dr601$1@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >A music sheet is a control protocol but it is also used to 'store'
> >sound.
>
> No, the sound is stored in the strings of my piano.  The only sound
> "stored" in the sheet music is the fwap-fwap-fwap of the pages or the
> thud if I drop a fake book on your head.
>
> >A midi file is sound stored using the midi *control* protocol
>
> A battery stores power.  A picture of a battery with a list of
> the materials used does not.

And a picture of a floppy disk with a .wav file on it is not
an orchestra.

Oh God!    He's been let out for the weekend again  :-)

     CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 18:18:36 +0000, half_pint wrote:

> And a picture of a floppy disk with a .wav file on it is not
> an orchestra.

How about getting a life you sad fuck ?

-- 
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gheare1963@ivetva.arg

In article <c2d6iq$1quu4g$2@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I do no what midi is in principle although I have never used it.

The very fact that you've persistently insisted that software exists, or
could exist, to convert midi instructions directly to audio, says
otherwise.  Just get Cakewalk or Magix, and a synthesizer and be done
with it!

>Probably only due to lack of effort or brains.

No, it is due to the somewhat intractible nature of the problem.  The
next evolutionary jump in computing may take us closer.  It may involve 
something other than electronics.  Maybe you can ponder what that next
plateau might be. 

In article <c2d6ir$1quu4g$3@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Chess is a hell of a lot easier than reversing an arbitrary Fourier
>transform.
>
>Not necessarilly, if you know what you are doing its probably a rather
>straight forward process.

If you "know" what you are doing, you've taken the problem out of the
computing domain and into the realm of human congitive processes.  

I won't argue that it's strictly impossible for a computer to model
human cognition, but I will say that such a computer is not available
today, and I'll go further and say that it's not possible to build it 
with 21st century technology.  It may not be possible at all, using
electronics.

In article <c2d6is$1quu4g$4@ID-204080.news.uni-berlin.de>,
half_pint <esboella.nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> >A midi file is sound stored using the midi *control* protocol
>>
>> A battery stores power.  A picture of a battery with a list of
>> the materials used does not.
>
>And a picture of a floppy disk with a .wav file on it is not
>an orchestra.

You are impossible.  Forget it.  Go convert your MIDI files to WAV,
and be happy. 

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:22:39 GMT, fishbowl@conservatory.com (james)
wrote:

>You are impossible.  Forget it.  Go convert your MIDI files to WAV,
>and be happy. 
>

Don't worry about it.   He's only trolling.   He did the same one last
week and doesn't realise the joke's over.

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