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PIR interfering with wireless network

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?

-- 
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0
Peter
1/30/2009 6:25:45 PM
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Peter Hucker wrote:
> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
> 

Doesn't your news client word wrap?

The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
band. You may be able to change channels on your wireless
network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
and see of packet loss goes away.

You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
but DD-WRT does.

Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
things go wrong...

--
Les Cargill

0
Les
1/30/2009 7:20:17 PM
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
>>
>
> Doesn't your news client word wrap?

Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.

> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
> band.

As in 2.4GHz for detection?  Or for communicating with the alarm system?  I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.

> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
> and see of packet loss goes away.

I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.

I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.

> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
> but DD-WRT does.

The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.

> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
> things go wrong...

I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters)  I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal.  Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal??  Funny thing is it's not always there.  It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things.  Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Women like silent men, they think they're listening.
0
Peter
1/30/2009 7:50:07 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
>>>
>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
> 
> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
> 

<newsreader pedantry mode on> :)

A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
there are ( believe it or not ) standards. 60 chars
is pretty common. Or you could line break things manually -
Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....

I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
the comment. It was all one long line...

>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
>> band.
> 
> As in 2.4GHz for detection?  Or for communicating with the alarm system?  I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
> 

Detection.

>> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
>> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
>> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
>> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
>> and see of packet loss goes away.
> 
> I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.
> 

Maybe. Rental isn't much. It might provide you with an idea
of which 802.11 channel to switch to.

http://www.testequip.com/sale/categories/01J.html

You kinda have to know what you're doing with 'em.

> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
> 

Might work.

>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
>> but DD-WRT does.
> 
> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
> 

Seems to be of little use in this case, then....

>> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
>> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
>> things go wrong...
> 
> I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters)  I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal.  Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal??  Funny thing is it's not always there.  It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things.  Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?
> 

"ID" meaning SSID?

MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
to predict how these things will interact.

If all else fails, string cable. If you think you
have somebody attaching to your wireless AP,
change encryption keys and/or to WPA2.


--
Les Cargill
0
Les
1/30/2009 9:00:31 PM
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
>>>>
>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>
>> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>
>
> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)

Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....

> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.

Old old standards.  When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.

> 60 chars is pretty common. 

My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list).  Having a white space is irritating.

> Or you could line break things manually -
> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....

A text box?  And what's MS to do with it?  I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.

> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
> the comment. It was all one long line...

Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!

>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
>>> band.
>>
>> As in 2.4GHz for detection?  Or for communicating with the alarm system?  I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
>>
>
> Detection.

Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices!  If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!

>>> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
>>> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
>>> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
>>> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
>>> and see of packet loss goes away.
>>
>> I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.
>
> Maybe. Rental isn't much. It might provide you with an idea
> of which 802.11 channel to switch to.
>
> http://www.testequip.com/sale/categories/01J.html
>
> You kinda have to know what you're doing with 'em.

I'll get the contractors to pay :-)

>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
>>
>
> Might work.
>
>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
>>> but DD-WRT does.
>>
>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
>>
>
> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....

It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise?  Hmmm....

>>> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
>>> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
>>> things go wrong...
>>
>> I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters)  I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal.  Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal??  Funny thing is it's not always there.  It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things.  Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?
>>
>
> "ID" meaning SSID?

That's the one!  I couldn't think of the acronym offhand.

> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
> to predict how these things will interact.

In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP.  But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know.  There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel.  Someone's mobile???  Some of them use wireless G nowadays?

> If all else fails, string cable. If you think you
> have somebody attaching to your wireless AP,
> change encryption keys and/or to WPA2.

I don't think anyone's using the network, although someone else may be trying to make a network and interfering with it.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

           ,-.           ,.---'''^\                  O
          {   \       ,__\,---'''''`-.,      O    O
           I   \    K`,'^           _  `'.     o
           \  ,.J..-'`          // (O)   ,,X,    o
           /  (_               ((   ~  ,;:''`  o
          /   ,.X'.,            \\      ':;;;:         
         (_../      -._                  ,'`
                     K.=,;.__ /^~/___..'`
                             /  /`
                             ~~~
0
Peter
1/30/2009 9:31:55 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
>>>>>
>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>
>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)
> 
> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
> 
>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.
> 
> Old old standards.  When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
> 
>> 60 chars is pretty common. 
> 
> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list).  Having a white space is irritating.
> 
>> Or you could line break things manually -
>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....
> 
> A text box?  And what's MS to do with it?  I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
> 
>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
>> the comment. It was all one long line...
> 
> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
> 

Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
wrap them in the reply window unless they have
line breaks in them.  I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
Firefox ). You're using Opera, which I bet has a
line-wrap setting or two.

Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
pointing something out that you probably can't see
from your frame of reference.

>>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
>>>> band.
>>> As in 2.4GHz for detection?  Or for communicating with the alarm system?  I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
>>>
>> Detection.
> 
> Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices!  If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!
> 

The frequency is for whatever use you use it for. It just
won't work well if you use the same frequencies for two
different things.

>>>> You may be able to change channels on your wireless
>>>> network to get around it, but to know what's up, you need
>>>> somebody with a spectrum analyzer to measure what the PIRs are
>>>> putting out. Or you can power the PIRs down and up,
>>>> and see of packet loss goes away.
>>> I don't know anyone with an analyzer, and I assume they are quite expensive.
>> Maybe. Rental isn't much. It might provide you with an idea
>> of which 802.11 channel to switch to.
>>
>> http://www.testequip.com/sale/categories/01J.html
>>
>> You kinda have to know what you're doing with 'em.
> 
> I'll get the contractors to pay :-)
> 

Check with 'em. It might be worth investigating what
the PIR modules actually do - I just know that
motion detectors will often use the 3.4GHz band...

>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
>>>
>> Might work.
>>
>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
>>>> but DD-WRT does.
>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
>>>
>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....
> 
> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise?  Hmmm....
> 

Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...

>>>> Such is life in an unlicensed band.... sure the boxes
>>>> are cute when you pick 'em up at Best Buy, but when
>>>> things go wrong...
>>> I did notice that occasionally the NIC picks up a signal on channel 11 with ID "MARVEL-??" (I've forgotten the last two characters)  I thought it was a nearby house as I've picked those up before, but it was a full strength signal and the houses are a fair distance awy, usually giving a very weak signal.  Is it possible the NIC would mistake the signal from the PIR as a network signal??  Funny thing is it's not always there.  It only appeared about 10% of the time I was testing things.  Also that would mean to me that the PIR was operating on channel 11, so the access point I put on channel 6 shouldn't have been affected?
>>>
>> "ID" meaning SSID?
> 
> That's the one!  I couldn't think of the acronym offhand.
> 

Ah.

>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
>> to predict how these things will interact.
> 
> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP.  But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know.  There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel.  Someone's mobile???  Some of them use wireless G nowadays?
> 

It's probably somebody else's WAP.

>> If all else fails, string cable. If you think you
>> have somebody attaching to your wireless AP,
>> change encryption keys and/or to WPA2.
> 
> I don't think anyone's using the network, although someone else may be trying to make a network and interfering with it.
> 

--
Les Cargill
0
Les
1/30/2009 10:19:17 PM
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:19:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>
>>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)
>>
>> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
>>
>>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
>>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.
>>
>> Old old standards.  When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
>>
>>> 60 chars is pretty common.
>>
>> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list).  Having a white space is irritating.
>>
>>> Or you could line break things manually -
>>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....
>>
>> A text box?  And what's MS to do with it?  I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
>>
>>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
>>> the comment. It was all one long line...
>>
>> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
>>
>
> Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
> wrap them in the reply window unless they have
> line breaks in them.  I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
> Firefox ).

That's weird to wrap in one and not the other.

> You're using Opera, which I bet has a
> line-wrap setting or two.

It does, but I've set it to "off".  Well it's not actually off, it's "format flowed" which is a standard, but it seems at least one of our newsreaders isn't sticking to properly.

> Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
> pointing something out that you probably can't see
> from your frame of reference.

People grumble about it occasionally.  If I set it to wrap, we get orphaned lines everywhere (usually when people are using Outhouse Distress, which wraps to the same 72 chars even when quoting, so after a few indents, a word falls off the end of every line).

>>>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
>>>>> band.
>>>> As in 2.4GHz for detection?  Or for communicating with the alarm system?  I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
>>>>
>>> Detection.
>>
>> Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices!  If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!
>
> The frequency is for whatever use you use it for. It just
> won't work well if you use the same frequencies for two
> different things.

You'd think they'd pick something that isn't in common use indoors.  2.4 is used for all sorts, mobile phones too?

>>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
>>>>
>>> Might work.
>>>
>>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
>>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
>>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
>>>>> but DD-WRT does.
>>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
>>>>
>>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....
>>
>> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise?  Hmmm....
>
> Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...

How is that any use?  (I'm assuming you mean "standing wave ratio").

>>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
>>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
>>> to predict how these things will interact.
>>
>> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP.  But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know.  There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel.  Someone's mobile???  Some of them use wireless G nowadays?
>
> It's probably somebody else's WAP.

Full strength doesn't make sense though.  Nearest house is 100 metres away.  I can't think why someone would be transmitting in our building.  Unless a mobile phone????


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Are you into casual sex, or should I dress up?
0
Peter
1/30/2009 10:30:11 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:19:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm.  One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it.  Is this possible??  It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power.  The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.  Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.  PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors?  Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you?  Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>>
>>>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)
>>> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
>>>
>>>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
>>>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.
>>> Old old standards.  When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
>>>
>>>> 60 chars is pretty common.
>>> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list).  Having a white space is irritating.
>>>
>>>> Or you could line break things manually -
>>>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....
>>> A text box?  And what's MS to do with it?  I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
>>>> the comment. It was all one long line...
>>> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
>>>
>> Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
>> wrap them in the reply window unless they have
>> line breaks in them.  I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
>> Firefox ).
> 
> That's weird to wrap in one and not the other.
> 
>> You're using Opera, which I bet has a
>> line-wrap setting or two.
> 
> It does, but I've set it to "off".  Well it's not actually off, it's "format flowed" which is a standard, but it seems at least one of our newsreaders isn't sticking to properly.
> 
>> Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
>> pointing something out that you probably can't see
>> from your frame of reference.
> 
> People grumble about it occasionally.  If I set it to wrap, we get orphaned lines everywhere (usually when people are using Outhouse Distress, which wraps to the same 72 chars even when quoting, so after a few indents, a word falls off the end of every line).
> 

Yup; weird. Dunno if it helps or not.

>>>>>> The PIR are probably motion sensors running in the 2.4GHz
>>>>>> band.
>>>>> As in 2.4GHz for detection?  Or for communicating with the alarm system?  I'm pretty sure they're cabled in.
>>>>>
>>>> Detection.
>>> Then why use a frequency that iis used for communications, and is quite likely to be used in offices!  If it's just sending it and picking it up again in the same room, it could use ANY frequency!!!
>> The frequency is for whatever use you use it for. It just
>> won't work well if you use the same frequencies for two
>> different things.
> 
> You'd think they'd pick something that isn't in common use indoors.  2.4 is used for all sorts, mobile phones too?
> 

They have limited choices for emissions in unlicensed bands.

>>>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
>>>>>
>>>> Might work.
>>>>
>>>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
>>>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
>>>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
>>>>>> but DD-WRT does.
>>>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
>>>>>
>>>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....
>>> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise?  Hmmm....
>> Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...
> 
> How is that any use?  (I'm assuming you mean "standing wave ratio").
> 

Just a power meter, yup. Not much use.

>>>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
>>>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
>>>> to predict how these things will interact.
>>> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP.  But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know.  There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel.  Someone's mobile???  Some of them use wireless G nowadays?
>> It's probably somebody else's WAP.
> 
> Full strength doesn't make sense though.  Nearest house is 100 metres away.  I can't think why someone would be transmitting in 
 > our building.  Unless a mobile phone????

It's not a mobile phone, unless someone's using an 802.11 enabled
phone, and then it would act as a NIC and not as an AP.

> 
> 

--
Les Cargill
0
Les
1/31/2009 12:22:49 AM
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:22:49 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:19:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:00:31 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:20:17 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>>>>>> Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>>> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>>>
>>>>> <newsreader pedantry mode on> :)
>>>> Pedants are abundant in newsgroups.....
>>>>
>>>>> A lot of news clients will word wrap before sending, and
>>>>> there are ( believe it or not ) standards.
>>>> Old old standards.  When we had green screen monitors and used DOS.
>>>>
>>>>> 60 chars is pretty common.
>>>> My monitor (only 20") displays about 150 chars (and I've got a column on the left for the group list).  Having a white space is irritating.
>>>>
>>>>> Or you could line break things manually -
>>>>> Microsoft can't write a text box, apparently....
>>>> A text box?  And what's MS to do with it?  I'm not posting with a MS newsreader.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm pretty sure you can't see it like I see it, hence
>>>>> the comment. It was all one long line...
>>>> Why doesn't yours wrap to your window, like any word processor, or even notepad!
>>>>
>>> Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
>>> wrap them in the reply window unless they have
>>> line breaks in them.  I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
>>> Firefox ).
>>
>> That's weird to wrap in one and not the other.
>>
>>> You're using Opera, which I bet has a
>>> line-wrap setting or two.
>>
>> It does, but I've set it to "off".  Well it's not actually off, it's "format flowed" which is a standard, but it seems at least one of our newsreaders isn't sticking to properly.
>>
>>> Again, I am not complaining per se, simply
>>> pointing something out that you probably can't see
>>> from your frame of reference.
>>
>> People grumble about it occasionally.  If I set it to wrap, we get orphaned lines everywhere (usually when people are using Outhouse Distress, which wraps to the same 72 chars even when quoting, so after a few indents, a word falls off the end of every line).
>>
>
> Yup; weird. Dunno if it helps or not.

At this end everything is fine.  Opera wraps the display in the reading and the reply window.

>>>>>> I'll get them to switch the blasted thing off, it's easy to see if there is still a problem, pinging something on the network repeatedly from a laptop on wireless in the offending room causes a lot of lost packets, and those that do go through are often delayed by up to a second.  Moving away from that room I get 1-2ms consistently.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Might work.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may also be able to get to instrumentation on the wireless
>>>>>>> NIC she uses, or on the base station/hub/router. Vanilla
>>>>>>> WRT54G firmware doesn't offer much in the way of instrumentation
>>>>>>> but DD-WRT does.
>>>>>> The software on her laptop shows signal and noise levels.  The signal is very high and the noise is very low.  Same levels as it always has been, and same levels as in rooms without the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to be of little use in this case, then....
>>>> It must be thinking the signal from the PIR is a signal and not noise?  Hmmm....
>>> Don't know. May just be an SWR meter...
>>
>> How is that any use?  (I'm assuming you mean "standing wave ratio").
>>
>
> Just a power meter, yup. Not much use.

The signal level is very useful when I'm deciding on placement of the transmitters.  But I've never seen the noise level go up at all.

>>>>> MARVELL is a semiconductor maker who makes NICs, if
>>>>> that's even relevant. I don't know enough sitting here
>>>>> to predict how these things will interact.
>>>> In that case it's presumably somebody's WAP.  But quite why it was showing full signal strength I don't know.  There are no buildings close enough to have that strength, and everything in our building is not labelled Marvel.  Someone's mobile???  Some of them use wireless G nowadays?
>>> It's probably somebody else's WAP.
>>
>> Full strength doesn't make sense though.  Nearest house is 100 metres away.  I can't think why someone would be transmitting in
>  > our building.  Unless a mobile phone????
>
> It's not a mobile phone, unless someone's using an 802.11 enabled
> phone, and then it would act as a NIC and not as an AP.

That's what I thought.  But if two phones can communicate on this frequency, doesn't one have to act as an AP?

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

A beautiful young girl is about to undergo a minor operation. 
She's laid on a trolley bed by a lady in a white dress and brought to the corridor. 
Before they enter the room she leaves her behind the theatre door to go in and check whether everything is ready.
A young man wearing a white coat approaches, takes the sheet away and starts examining her naked body.
He walks away and talks to another man in a white coat.
The second man comes over and does the same examinations. 
When a third man starts examining her body so closely, she grows impatient and says:
"All these examinations are fine and appreciated, but when are you going to start the operation?"
The man in the white coat shrugged his shoulders: "I have no idea. We're just painting the corridor."
0
Peter
1/31/2009 12:47:01 AM
>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:

    >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?

    PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.

What an idiot.
-- 
It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country
is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially
induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant
propaganda of fear.
 ~ General Douglas MacArthur
0
Bob
1/31/2009 4:00:27 AM
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> wrote:

>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:
>
>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>
>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>
> What an idiot.

Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the same?  I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a reason.

If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide (or whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Cobra:  2 conjoined bras.
0
Peter
1/31/2009 10:27:55 AM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:
>>
>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>
>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>
>> What an idiot.
>
> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the same? 
> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a 
> reason.
>
> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to 
> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide (or 
> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>

Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
If you want it more .... it's up to you,
 but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!

http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
say:
  Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
  the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
  workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
  lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
  If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
  probably show up better, too.


0
ray
1/31/2009 4:47:13 PM
In MsgID<49837cdf$0$4861$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com> on Fri, 30
Jan 2009 17:19:17 -0500, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Les
Cargill' wrote:

>Mine wraps them in the reader window, but does not
>wrap them in the reply window unless they have
>line breaks in them.  

Same differences in 'Agent' - You can set it to autowrap to read posts
from people who post in 'flowed'[1] format but it quotes exactly as
received, meaning as one long long long long line.

My trick in Agent, is to copy/paste the original posting into the reply
window, paste it in without quotemarks to that Agent wraps it for you.
Then at the end of each line, backspace/return to put the CRLFs in and
then ctrl-x and ctrl-q to cut and paste it back quotemarked. 

[1] heh - should that be an 'o' or an 'a' :)

>I'm using SeaMonkey ( aka
>Firefox ). 

Maybe an equivalent trick in your client? 

Above is a bit of a pain in the neck but much easier than any other way on
this client. Makes me slightly slower to reply, not consciously but
use-netiquette just adds to any other factors that make a difference.

Sample's not big enough to see if it content quality's associated or if
it's just down to formatting, but I suspect others react similarly.
There's certainly an association between less replies and mile-long lines.

>You're using Opera, which I bet has a line-wrap setting or two.

It does, yes.


>> 
>> I'll get the contractors to pay :-)
>> 
>
>Check with 'em. It might be worth investigating what
>the PIR modules actually do - I just know that
>motion detectors will often use the 3.4GHz band...

2.4 Ghz surely?

If the circuit's mains earthed then silver foil grounded by contact with a
hand will screen possible culprits well enough to assign the blame..

Dave J.
0
Dave
2/2/2009 6:08:58 PM
In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:

>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:
>
>    >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>
>    PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>
>What an idiot.

Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..

Dave J.
0
Dave
2/2/2009 6:11:01 PM
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>

>>>
>>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>
>>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>
>>> What an idiot.
>>
>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the same?
>> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a
>> reason.
>>
>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide (or
>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>>
>
> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!

You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not change but people should decide!

> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
> say:
>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
>   probably show up better, too.

I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

I want to lie shipwrecked and comatose
Drinking fresh mango juice
With goldfish shoals nibbling round my toes
Fun in the sun 
0
Peter
2/2/2009 9:19:23 PM
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:11:01 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

> In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
> in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:
>>
>>    >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>
>>    PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>
>>What an idiot.
>
> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..

Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Fred and Mary get married but can't afford a honeymoon, so they go back to mum and dads for the night.
In the morning, little Johnny gets up and has his breakfast.
As he is going out of the door to go to school, he asks his mum, "are Fred and Mary are up yet?"
She replies, "No".
Johnny asks, "Do you know what I think?"
His mom replies, "Never mind what you think! Just go to school."
Johnny comes home for lunch and asks his mum, "Are Fred and Mary up yet?"
She replies, "No."
Johnny says, "Do you know what I think?"
His mom replies, "Never mind what you think! Eat your lunch and go back to school."
After school, he comes home and asks, "Are Fred and Mary up yet?"
His mom says, "No."
Johnny asks, "Do you know what I think?"
His mom replies, "OK...OK! What do you think?"
He says, "Well, last night Fred came in for the Vaseline and I think I gave him my airplane glue."
0
Peter
2/2/2009 9:22:30 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>
>>>>
>>>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>
>>>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>
>>>> What an idiot.
>>>
>>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the 
>>> same?
>>> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
>>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide 
>>> (or
>>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>>>
>>
>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>
> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not change 
> but people should decide!
>
>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>
>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>> say:
>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
>>   probably show up better, too.
>
> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>

You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the* 
standard.
If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the Usenet's 
standard. 


0
ray
2/2/2009 11:33:13 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:11:01 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
>> in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hucker <none@spam.com> writes:
>>>
>>>    >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>
>>>    PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>
>>>What an idiot.
>>
>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>
> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

And you are too important to follow any rules. .... 


0
ray
2/2/2009 11:37:13 PM
In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
-0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:

>>>What an idiot.
>>
>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>
>Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.

Dave J.
0
Dave
2/3/2009 8:14:08 PM
"Dave J." <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote in message 
news:gma8ja$ou4$1@news.datemas.de...
> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>
>>>>What an idiot.
>>>
>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>
>>Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>
> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.

He think that the majority must cooperate with him :-) 


0
ray
2/4/2009 12:04:16 AM
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>>
>>>>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>>
>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>
>>>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the
>>>> same?
>>>> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a
>>>> reason.
>>>>
>>>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
>>>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide
>>>> (or
>>>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>>
>> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not change
>> but people should decide!
>>
>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>>
>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>>> say:
>>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
>>>   probably show up better, too.
>>
>> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>>
>
> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the*
> standard.
> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the Usenet's
> standard.

It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA because PATA is *the* standard?


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

During a visit to the mental asylum, a visitor asked the Director what the criterion was which defined whether or not a patient should be institutionalized. 
"Well," said the Director, "we fill up a bathtub, then we offer a teaspoon, a teacup, and a bucket to the patient and ask him to empty the bathtub." 
"Oh, I understand," said the visitor. "A normal person would use the bucket, because it's bigger than the teaspoon or the teacup." 
"No," said the Director, "a normal person would pull the plug.  Do you want a room with or without a view?"
0
Peter
2/4/2009 8:42:36 PM
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:37:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:11:01 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In MsgID<zlh83z1g.fsf@mailinator.com> on Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:00:27 -0800,
>>> in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Bob Fry' wrote:
>>>

>>>>
>>>>    >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>
>>>>    PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>
>>>>What an idiot.
>>>
>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>
>> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>
> And you are too important to follow any rules. ....

I take them under consideration.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

            __NNNNL_.
          JNNNNNNNNNNN.
         NNNNNNNNNNNNNN)
        JNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
        NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN)
        NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN)
        NNNN""NNNNF"4NNN)
        (NN    NN)   (NN
         4N.  .NNL   JN`
          NNNNNN(NNNNN)
          NNNNN  (NNNN)
            "NNNNNNF`
            N.NNNN`N`
            (NL___NN
     _.      `NNNNF
    (NNN.     `NN`      JNN
    (NNNNL            .NNNN
   .NNNNNNNNL.     .JNNNNNNL
   `NN" `"NNNNNL.JNNNN"` 4NN
            `4NNNNN"
           .JNNNNNNN.
         .NNNN"  `NNNNL
    _NNNNNNN"      `NNNNNNL.
   (NNNNNNF          `NNNNNN
    4NNNNN            (NNF"
       `"              ``
0
Peter
2/4/2009 8:42:49 PM
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>
>>>>What an idiot.
>>>
>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>
>>Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>
> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.

There are two standards.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Rather bad pigeon English from an ad for a Yamaha Motorcycle:

Specify that, Yamaha YZF-R1 specification table 
Engine form: Four flushes the water cooling DOHC 20 live petalscompound 4 cylinders cylinder bore x stroke: 77.0mm x 53.6mm 
Transmission system wet type multi- pieces in front of 6 fast
Fuel supply Mikuni double oil valve electron fuel oil system 
(R): 24� 
The towing is apart from (T): 97mm 
system: 43mm stands upside down the drive pipe frontfork, the entire function accent compares the 120mm travellingschedule 
Latter suspension system: The single barrel flowing tubinghead pressure evades shakes, the entire function accent compares the130mm travelling schedule 
Tire (front): 120,/70 - ZR17 
After tire (): 190,/50 - ZR17 
The first brake moves the system: 2 x 320mm x vehicle smalldish emanant 4 pistons to approach  
The latter brake moves the system: 220mm Shan Diepei singlepiston  
Long x is extravagant high x: 2,065 x 720 x 1105mm 
Spread of axies: 1395mm 
Lowly takeoffs is apart from 135mm 
Place high: 835mm 
0
Peter
2/4/2009 8:49:07 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
> 
>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>
>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
> 
> There are two standards.
> 

Not really.

Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:

"...Text is sent as a series of
successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html

Section 2.4.1

So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
some boogerhead might complain about it :)

Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
RFC760/RFC1122 .

(All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
points or something. It should be merely interesting.)

--
Les Cargill
0
Les
2/4/2009 9:28:19 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the
>>>>> same?
>>>>> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a
>>>>> reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
>>>>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide
>>>>> (or
>>>>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>>>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>>>
>>> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not 
>>> change
>>> but people should decide!
>>>
>>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>>>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>>>
>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>>>> say:
>>>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
>>>>   probably show up better, too.
>>>
>>> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>>>
>>
>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the*
>> standard.
>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the Usenet's
>> standard.
>
> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA 
> because PATA is *the* standard?


Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ? 


0
ray
2/4/2009 9:31:34 PM
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:22:30
>>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>>> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, it's
>>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
>>
>> There are two standards.
>
> Not really.
>
> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>
> "...Text is sent as a series of
> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>
> Section 2.4.1
>
> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>
> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>
> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)

But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced auto-wrapping capablities of every word processor):
http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.
0
Peter
2/5/2009 8:00:21 PM
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the
>>>>>> same?
>>>>>> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for a
>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
>>>>>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns wide
>>>>>> (or
>>>>>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>>>>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>>>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>>>>
>>>> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not
>>>> change
>>>> but people should decide!
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>>>>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>>>>> say:
>>>>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>>>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>>>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>>>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>>>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will
>>>>>   probably show up better, too.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the*
>>> standard.
>>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the Usenet's
>>> standard.
>>
>> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA
>> because PATA is *the* standard?
>
>
> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?

I did not invent this standard.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
0
Peter
2/5/2009 8:00:34 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:00:27 -0000, Bob Fry <bobfry@mailinator.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     >>  Doesn't your news client word wrap?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     PH> Doesn't yours?  I can't predict what width your screen is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you a communist who thinks every machine and every person is the
>>>>>>> same?
>>>>>>> I don't want measly 80 character columns.  I have a large screen for 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> reason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want 80 columns, then get your useless newsreader to wrap to
>>>>>>> window, then my text and everyone else's text will be 80 columns 
>>>>>>> wide
>>>>>>> (or
>>>>>>> whatever the width of your window is) especially for you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>>>>>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>>>>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>>>>>
>>>>> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not
>>>>> change
>>>>> but people should decide!
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>>>>>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>>>>>> say:
>>>>>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>>>>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>>>>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>>>>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>>>>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>>   probably show up better, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the*
>>>> standard.
>>>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the 
>>>> Usenet's
>>>> standard.
>>>
>>> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA
>>> because PATA is *the* standard?
>>
>>
>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>
> I did not invent this standard.

Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ... 


0
ray
2/5/2009 10:21:11 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009 
>>>> 21:22:30
>>>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>>>> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>>>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it, 
>>>> it's
>>>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
>>>
>>> There are two standards.
>>
>> Not really.
>>
>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>
>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>>
>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>
>> Section 2.4.1
>>
>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>
>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>
>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>
> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced auto-wrapping 
> capablities of every word processor):
> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>


Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ... 


0
ray
2/5/2009 10:23:15 PM
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>>>>>>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>>>>>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not
>>>>>> change
>>>>>> but people should decide!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>>>>>>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>>>>>>> say:
>>>>>>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>>>>>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>>>>>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>>>>>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>>>>>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>   probably show up better, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is *the*
>>>>> standard.
>>>>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the
>>>>> Usenet's
>>>>> standard.
>>>>
>>>> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA
>>>> because PATA is *the* standard?
>>>
>>>
>>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>>
>> I did not invent this standard.
>
> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...

How can I answer a question that is incorrect?

What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Bikini e pareo, camicia di pizzo e shorts, top e gonna di crochet!
0
Peter
2/6/2009 7:25:02 PM
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009
>>>>> 21:22:30
>>>>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>>>>> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>>>>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it,
>>>>> it's
>>>>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
>>>>
>>>> There are two standards.
>>>
>>> Not really.
>>>
>>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>>
>>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>>>
>>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>>
>>> Section 2.4.1
>>>
>>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>>
>>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>>
>>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>>
>> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced auto-wrapping
>> capablities of every word processor):
>> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>>
>
>
> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...

Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the display engine be different?


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

In a long line of people, one guy suddenly starts massaging the back of the person in front of him, the person turned and asked, what the hell you are doing?
"Well," said the guy massaging the back, "you see I'm a chiropractor and I can't help massaging your back. I can't help practicing my art."
"Are you crazy?" the other guy said, "Look, I'm a lawyer. Am I fucking the guy in front of me?"
0
Peter
2/6/2009 7:26:39 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uox2v0xq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0000, ray 
>>>>>>> <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:op.uol90txg4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let the majority decide to *not* use line length > 80.
>>>>>>>> If you want it more .... it's up to you,
>>>>>>>>  but please follow the usenet habits/etiquette !!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You've just contradicted yourself, you're saying people should not
>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>> but people should decide!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
>>>>>>>> say: line length under 80 (preferably under 72) characters;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
>>>>>>>> say:
>>>>>>>>   Try to keep your text in a generic format.  Many (if not most) of
>>>>>>>>   the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from
>>>>>>>>   workstations with 80 column terminal windows.  Try to keep your
>>>>>>>>   lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability.
>>>>>>>>   If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>   probably show up better, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm using format flowed.  It's a standard, live with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is 
>>>>>> *the*
>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the
>>>>>> Usenet's
>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA
>>>>> because PATA is *the* standard?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>>>
>>> I did not invent this standard.
>>
>> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...
>
> How can I answer a question that is incorrect?
>
> What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

The question i asked was: "Where did you find that usenet must follow your 
standard ?"
The question is not incorrect, because you said that usenet must use 
line-length > 80 chars because long lines is a "standard" ....
I rephrase the question:
Where did you find that usenet must use long lines ? 


0
ray
2/6/2009 8:46:30 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009
>>>>>> 21:22:30
>>>>>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>> Not his fault if he can't spell RFC..
>>>>>>> Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
>>>>>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it,
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two standards.
>>>>
>>>> Not really.
>>>>
>>>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>>>
>>>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>>>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>>>
>>>> Section 2.4.1
>>>>
>>>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>>>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>>>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>>>
>>>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>>>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>>>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>>>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>>>
>>>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>>>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>>>
>>> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced 
>>> auto-wrapping
>>> capablities of every word processor):
>>> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>
> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the display 
> engine be different?

Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a 
maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely i'ts 
better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars is a 
good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines rending 
your text unreadable. 


0
ray
2/6/2009 8:51:06 PM
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:30 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uox2v0xq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

>>

>>

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is
>>>>>>> *the*
>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the
>>>>>>> Usenet's
>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to SATA
>>>>>> because PATA is *the* standard?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>>>>
>>>> I did not invent this standard.
>>>
>>> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...
>>
>> How can I answer a question that is incorrect?
>>
>> What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
>
> The question i asked was: "Where did you find that usenet must follow your
> standard ?"
> The question is not incorrect, because you said that usenet must use
> line-length > 80 chars because long lines is a "standard" ....
> I rephrase the question:
> Where did you find that usenet must use long lines ?

That makes more sense.  It was "YOUR standard" which was illogical.

It's still wrong though, they are not long lines.  They are the length of your screen.  Unless your "newsreader" can't do word wrap.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

A very loud, unattractive, mean-acting woman walks into Wal-Mart with her two kids in tow, screaming obscenities at them all the way through the entrance. 
The Wal-Mart Greeter says, "Good morning and welcome to Wal-Mart.... Nice children you've got there - are they twins?" 
The ugly woman stops screaming long enough to say, "Hell no they ain't, the oldest one, he's 9 and the younger one, she's 7.
Why the hell would you think they're twins?........ Do you really think they look alike?" 
"No", replies the greeter, "I just couldn't believe you got laid twice!"
0
Peter
2/6/2009 11:17:34 PM
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009
>>>>>>> 21:22:30
>>>>>>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>

>>>>>>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow it,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>>>>
>>>>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>>>>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Section 2.4.1
>>>>>
>>>>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>>>>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>>>>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>>>>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>>>>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>>>>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>>>>
>>>>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>>>>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>>>>
>>>> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced
>>>> auto-wrapping
>>>> capablities of every word processor):
>>>> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>>
>> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the display
>> engine be different?
>
> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely i'ts
> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars is a
> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines rending
> your text unreadable.

Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

An elderly couple were on a cruise and it was really stormy. They were standing on the back of the boat watching the moon, when a wave came up and washed the old woman overboard. They searched for days and couldn't find her, so the captain sent the old man back to shore with the promise that he would notify him as soon as they found something. Three weeks went by and finally the old man got a fax from the boat. It read: 'Sir, sorry to inform you, we found your wife dead at the bottom of the ocean. We hauled her up to the deck and attached to her butt was an oyster and in it was a pearl worth $50,000 . Please advise.' The old man faxed back: 'Send me the pearl and re-bait the trap.'
0
Peter
2/6/2009 11:17:59 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoydnkkh4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:30 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uox2v0xq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:op.uoug5awt4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:33:13 -0000, ray 
>>>>>>> <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:op.uoqtil1j4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You speak as microsoft claiming that the microsoft's standards is
>>>>>>>> *the*
>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>> If you want to use Usenet (it's here) it's better to follow the
>>>>>>>> Usenet's
>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a new standard.  And not that new either.  Do you object to 
>>>>>>> SATA
>>>>>>> because PATA is *the* standard?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not invent this standard.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...
>>>
>>> How can I answer a question that is incorrect?
>>>
>>> What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
>>
>> The question i asked was: "Where did you find that usenet must follow 
>> your
>> standard ?"
>> The question is not incorrect, because you said that usenet must use
>> line-length > 80 chars because long lines is a "standard" ....
>> I rephrase the question:
>> Where did you find that usenet must use long lines ?
>
> That makes more sense.  It was "YOUR standard" which was illogical.

This is not MY standard, i have no standard ... i just follow the RFC ...and 
this his logical, because you expect that everybody have your 
material/configuration/visual acuity/etc....


> It's still wrong though, they are not long lines.  They are the length of 
> your screen.  Unless your "newsreader" can't do word wrap.

This is really long lines .. perhaps you don't know what a line length is 
.... 


0
ray
2/7/2009 4:26:55 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoydn9q14buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:14:08 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In MsgID<op.uoqtnsvf4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Mon, 02 Feb 2009
>>>>>>>> 21:22:30
>>>>>>>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>> It's not a rule, it's a standard. There's no obligation to follow 
>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> just there in case you want to cooperate with the majority.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two standards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>>>>>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Section 2.4.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>>>>>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>>>>>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>>>>>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>>>>>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>>>>>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>>>>>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>>>>>
>>>>> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced
>>>>> auto-wrapping
>>>>> capablities of every word processor):
>>>>> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>>>
>>> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the display
>>> engine be different?
>>
>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely i'ts
>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars 
>> is a
>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines rending
>> your text unreadable.
>
> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>
This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely".... 


0
ray
2/7/2009 4:29:06 PM
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:26:55 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoydnkkh4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:30 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uox2v0xq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did not invent this standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...
>>>>
>>>> How can I answer a question that is incorrect?
>>>>
>>>> What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
>>>
>>> The question i asked was: "Where did you find that usenet must follow
>>> your
>>> standard ?"
>>> The question is not incorrect, because you said that usenet must use
>>> line-length > 80 chars because long lines is a "standard" ....
>>> I rephrase the question:
>>> Where did you find that usenet must use long lines ?
>>
>> That makes more sense.  It was "YOUR standard" which was illogical.
>
> This is not MY standard, i have no standard ...

I was quoting you, so "YOUR" referred to me.  This is beginning to sound like something from Alice in Wonderland.

> i just follow the RFC ...and
> this his logical, because you expect that everybody have your
> material/configuration/visual acuity/etc....

I expect people to be able to view my text at their screen width by simply wrapping it.

>> It's still wrong though, they are not long lines.  They are the length of
>> your screen.  Unless your "newsreader" can't do word wrap.
>
> This is really long lines .. perhaps you don't know what a line length is
> ...

What?

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Stress is the conflict which occurs when your mind prevents your body from beating the living daylights out of whoever got in your way.
0
Peter
2/7/2009 8:35:42 PM
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:29:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoydn9q14buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>>>
>>

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>>>>>>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF pair."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Section 2.4.1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>>>>>>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>>>>>>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>>>>>>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>>>>>>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>>>>>>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>>>>>>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced
>>>>>> auto-wrapping
>>>>>> capablities of every word processor):
>>>>>> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>>>>
>>>> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the display
>>>> engine be different?
>>>
>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely i'ts
>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars
>>> is a
>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines rending
>>> your text unreadable.
>>
>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>
> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....

I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite to someone who makes a mistake while driving?

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Money can't buy you true love.
It does however put you in a good bargaining position.
0
Peter
2/7/2009 8:36:32 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoz0tsod4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:26:55 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uoydnkkh4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:30 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uox2v0xq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:31:34 -0000, ray 
>>>>>>> <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where did you find that usenet must follow your standard ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not invent this standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...
>>>>>
>>>>> How can I answer a question that is incorrect?
>>>>>
>>>>> What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
>>>>
>>>> The question i asked was: "Where did you find that usenet must follow
>>>> your
>>>> standard ?"
>>>> The question is not incorrect, because you said that usenet must use
>>>> line-length > 80 chars because long lines is a "standard" ....
>>>> I rephrase the question:
>>>> Where did you find that usenet must use long lines ?
>>>
>>> That makes more sense.  It was "YOUR standard" which was illogical.
>>
>> This is not MY standard, i have no standard ...
>
> I was quoting you, so "YOUR" referred to me.  This is beginning to sound 
> like something from Alice in Wonderland.
>
>> i just follow the RFC ...and
>> this his logical, because you expect that everybody have your
>> material/configuration/visual acuity/etc....
>
> I expect people to be able to view my text at their screen width by simply 
> wrapping it.

I told you before .... some people use a newsreader that simply "cut" your 
long lines.


>
>>> It's still wrong though, they are not long lines.  They are the length 
>>> of
>>> your screen.  Unless your "newsreader" can't do word wrap.
>>
>> This is really long lines .. perhaps you don't know what a line length is
>> ...
>
> What?
>
As i see .. you don't want to understand what a long line is, ....same for 
CRLF ....


(End of discussion  - plonk). 


0
ray
2/8/2009 10:47:12 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:29:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uoydn9q14buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0000, Les Cargill 
>>>>>>> <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's old and weary standard RFC 977:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "...Text is sent as a series of
>>>>>>>> successive lines of textual matter, each terminated with CR-LF 
>>>>>>>> pair."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Section 2.4.1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So if you expect people to see things in lines, you're on
>>>>>>>> the hook to add the carriage returns/line feeds. If you don't
>>>>>>>> some boogerhead might complain about it :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Debate-fun is what it is, but ... your position isn't
>>>>>>>> that tenable. "Be liberal in what you accept, and
>>>>>>>> conservative in what you send." - Jon Postrel,
>>>>>>>> RFC760/RFC1122 .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (All this noise is simply here to inform, not to score
>>>>>>>> points or something. It should be merely interesting.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But there is also this (which ties in with the more advanced
>>>>>>> auto-wrapping
>>>>>>> capablities of every word processor):
>>>>>>> http://joeclark.org/ffaq.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the 
>>>>> display
>>>>> engine be different?
>>>>
>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely 
>>>> i'ts
>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars
>>>> is a
>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines 
>>>> rending
>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>
>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>
>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>
> I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite 
> to someone who makes a mistake while driving?

In this case nobody do mistakes ....except you.

(End of discussion - plonk) 


0
ray
2/8/2009 10:48:50 PM
On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:47:12 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoz0tsod4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:26:55 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uoydnkkh4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:46:30 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uox2v0xq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:21:11 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:op.uov9u8qj4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everybody knows that - you did not answer the question ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can I answer a question that is incorrect?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What would you answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
>>>>>
>>>>> The question i asked was: "Where did you find that usenet must follow
>>>>> your
>>>>> standard ?"
>>>>> The question is not incorrect, because you said that usenet must use
>>>>> line-length > 80 chars because long lines is a "standard" ....
>>>>> I rephrase the question:
>>>>> Where did you find that usenet must use long lines ?
>>>>
>>>> That makes more sense.  It was "YOUR standard" which was illogical.
>>>
>>> This is not MY standard, i have no standard ...
>>
>> I was quoting you, so "YOUR" referred to me.  This is beginning to sound
>> like something from Alice in Wonderland.
>>
>>> i just follow the RFC ...and
>>> this his logical, because you expect that everybody have your
>>> material/configuration/visual acuity/etc....
>>
>> I expect people to be able to view my text at their screen width by simply
>> wrapping it.
>
> I told you before .... some people use a newsreader that simply "cut" your
> long lines.

Well they shouldn't.

>>>> It's still wrong though, they are not long lines.  They are the length
>>>> of
>>>> your screen.  Unless your "newsreader" can't do word wrap.
>>>
>>> This is really long lines .. perhaps you don't know what a line length is
>>> ...
>>
>> What?
>>
> As i see .. you don't want to understand what a long line is, ....same for
> CRLF ....

I said "what" because you didn't offer an explanation.

> (End of discussion  - plonk).

Oh I see, "I'm not playing ner ner ner ner ner", well I didn't realise you were that childish.  Don't get your own way in an argument and run off crying, how pathetic.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Is it true that DNA stands for the National Dyslexia Association?
0
Peter
2/9/2009 9:17:46 PM
On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:48:50 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:29:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uoydn9q14buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the
>>>>>> display
>>>>>> engine be different?
>>>>>
>>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely
>>>>> i'ts
>>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars
>>>>> is a
>>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines
>>>>> rending
>>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>>
>>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>>
>>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>>
>> I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite
>> to someone who makes a mistake while driving?
>
> In this case nobody do mistakes ....except you.

Try to write in English.

> (End of discussion - plonk)

Your newsreader can't even killfile properly, you've now done this TWICE!

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

I took an IQ test and the results were negative.
0
Peter
2/9/2009 9:18:35 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.uo3r49nk4buhsv@i7...
> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:48:50 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:29:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:op.uoydn9q14buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:23:15 -0000, ray 
>>>>>>> <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:op.uov9uvpn4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Usenet have nothing to do with a "word processor" ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both display paragraphs of text on your screen.  Why should the
>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>> engine be different?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely
>>>>>> i'ts
>>>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 
>>>>>> chars
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines
>>>>>> rending
>>>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>>>
>>>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>>>
>>> I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you 
>>> polite
>>> to someone who makes a mistake while driving?
>>
>> In this case nobody do mistakes ....except you.
>
> Try to write in English.

Je regrette, ma langue maternelle est le fran�ais - Comme je n'ai jamais vu 
un individu aussi born� et aussi impoli que vous, je ne m'exprimerais plus 
avec vous - BYE. 


0
ray
2/10/2009 10:44:18 AM
In MsgID<op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:36:32
-0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:

>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely i'ts
>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars
>>>> is a
>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines rending
>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>
>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>
>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....


>I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite to 
>someone who makes a mistake while driving?

Well, if you really want to continue a rather inappropriate analogy

I'd be polite enough to continue using visible flashing lights along with
the 'latest invention' of (say) RF based turn and brake indicators. I
would continue to use the visible version even if I knew that 99.9 percent
of people could receive the RF signals.

In other words, my 'standard' is to send information in an 'old fashioned'
format (that's certainly accepted by everyone) even if I know that 'the
new standard' has been almost universally adopted. Pretty much as most
internet RFCs recommend.

I believe *that's* what he meant by 'polite'


Dave J.
0
Dave
2/10/2009 5:05:15 PM
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:44:18 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.uo3r49nk4buhsv@i7...
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:48:50 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:29:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:op.uoydn9q14buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:51:06 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:op.uox2ypww4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

>>
>>>>

>>>>>>
>>>>
>>

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely
>>>>>>> i'ts
>>>>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80
>>>>>>> chars
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines
>>>>>>> rending
>>>>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>>>>
>>>> I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you
>>>> polite
>>>> to someone who makes a mistake while driving?
>>>
>>> In this case nobody do mistakes ....except you.
>>
>> Try to write in English.
>
> Je regrette, ma langue maternelle est le fran�ais - Comme je n'ai jamais vu
> un individu aussi born� et aussi impoli que vous, je ne m'exprimerais plus
> avec vous - BYE.

Typical softie touchy feely frog.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it.
0
Peter
2/10/2009 6:45:59 PM
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:05:15 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

> In MsgID<op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:36:32
> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>
>>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely i'ts
>>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 chars
>>>>> is a
>>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines rending
>>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>>
>>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>>
>>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>
>
>>I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite to
>>someone who makes a mistake while driving?
>
> Well, if you really want to continue a rather inappropriate analogy
>
> I'd be polite enough to continue using visible flashing lights along with
> the 'latest invention' of (say) RF based turn and brake indicators. I
> would continue to use the visible version even if I knew that 99.9 percent
> of people could receive the RF signals.
>
> In other words, my 'standard' is to send information in an 'old fashioned'
> format (that's certainly accepted by everyone) even if I know that 'the
> new standard' has been almost universally adopted. Pretty much as most
> internet RFCs recommend.
>
> I believe *that's* what he meant by 'polite'

Well I wouldn't do the above.  Just as I don't tolerate people in 3-wheelers doing 40mph on the motorway.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

An English taxidermist is sweating his way through the Australian outback when he comes across a bar.
He staggers in between the beer swilling locals and, in his well educated voice, asks the bartender, "May I have a gin and tonic, please, my good man."
One of the locals says to his mates, "Geez, cobbers, what kind of a fucking man's drink is that?"
Then, turning to the Englishman, "Hey! You! Yes you, you fucking Pom!  Gin and fucking tonic are you some fucking kind of a poofter or something?"
"Ac...actually," the Englishman, terrified, replies, "I'm a taxidermist."
"Oh yeah? And what's a taxidermist, then?"
"I mount d..d..dead animals."
"It's alright, cobbers," says the local, turning to his mates, "he's one of us!"
0
Peter
2/10/2009 6:47:07 PM
"Dave J." <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote in message 
news:gmsc90$6s8$1@news.datemas.de...
> In MsgID<op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:36:32
> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>
>>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely 
>>>>> i'ts
>>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80 
>>>>> chars
>>>>> is a
>>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines 
>>>>> rending
>>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>>
>>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>>
>>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>
>
>>I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite 
>>to
>>someone who makes a mistake while driving?
>
> Well, if you really want to continue a rather inappropriate analogy
>
> I'd be polite enough to continue using visible flashing lights along with
> the 'latest invention' of (say) RF based turn and brake indicators. I
> would continue to use the visible version even if I knew that 99.9 percent
> of people could receive the RF signals.
>
> In other words, my 'standard' is to send information in an 'old fashioned'
> format (that's certainly accepted by everyone) even if I know that 'the
> new standard' has been almost universally adopted. Pretty much as most
> internet RFCs recommend.
>
> I believe *that's* what he meant by 'polite'
>
Thanks Dave .... exactly what i was thinking.
and another example .... some people add in their signature url's -> doing 
spam ... plus some extra lines(too much) of a joke that nobody want ... 
forgetting the signification of a "bandwidth". 


0
ray
2/10/2009 11:19:18 PM
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:19:18 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Dave J." <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote in message
> news:gmsc90$6s8$1@news.datemas.de...
>> In MsgID<op.uoz0u6cq4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net> on Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:36:32
>> -0000, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Usenet is *not* a display engine - it's a way for communicating with a
>>>>>> maximum of persons using a lot of different usenet-clients. Politely
>>>>>> i'ts
>>>>>> better to permit every body to read your text, so the limit of 80
>>>>>> chars
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>> good idea - specially when some usenet-client truncate long lines
>>>>>> rending
>>>>>> your text unreadable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why should I cater for people with out of date shite?
>>>>>
>>>> This is exactly the reason why i wrote "Politely"....
>>
>>
>>>I don't do polite when people can't look after themselves.  Are you polite
>>>to
>>>someone who makes a mistake while driving?
>>
>> Well, if you really want to continue a rather inappropriate analogy
>>
>> I'd be polite enough to continue using visible flashing lights along with
>> the 'latest invention' of (say) RF based turn and brake indicators. I
>> would continue to use the visible version even if I knew that 99.9 percent
>> of people could receive the RF signals.
>>
>> In other words, my 'standard' is to send information in an 'old fashioned'
>> format (that's certainly accepted by everyone) even if I know that 'the
>> new standard' has been almost universally adopted. Pretty much as most
>> internet RFCs recommend.
>>
>> I believe *that's* what he meant by 'polite'
>>
> Thanks Dave .... exactly what i was thinking.
> and another example .... some people add in their signature url's -> doing
> spam ... plus some extra lines(too much) of a joke that nobody want ...
> forgetting the signification of a "bandwidth".

Those are there under democracy.  I get approx 5 compliments per complaint.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is Michael Jackson's album entitled "Bad?"
Because he couldn't spell "Pathetic."
0
Peter
2/11/2009 8:34:31 PM
On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:08:58 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

> In MsgID<49837cdf$0$4861$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com> on Fri, 30
> Jan 2009 17:19:17 -0500, in comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Les
> Cargill' wrote:
>
>>> I'll get the contractors to pay :-)
>>>
>>
>>Check with 'em. It might be worth investigating what
>>the PIR modules actually do - I just know that
>>motion detectors will often use the 3.4GHz band...
>
> 2.4 Ghz surely?
>
> If the circuit's mains earthed then silver foil grounded by contact with a
> hand will screen possible culprits well enough to assign the blame..
>
> Dave J.

Indeed it did.  I used a biscuit tin lid.  This astonisehd the electrician.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

REALITY.EXE corrupt. Reboot universe (Y/N)?
0
Peter
2/12/2009 7:39:59 PM
In MsgID<op.uo5fstaj4buhsv@i7> on Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:47:07 -0000, in
comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:

>> I'd be polite enough to continue using visible flashing lights along with
>> the 'latest invention' of (say) RF based turn and brake indicators. I
>> would continue to use the visible version even if I knew that 99.9 percent
>> of people could receive the RF signals.
>>
>> In other words, my 'standard' is to send information in an 'old fashioned'
>> format (that's certainly accepted by everyone) even if I know that 'the
>> new standard' has been almost universally adopted. Pretty much as most
>> internet RFCs recommend.
>>
>> I believe *that's* what he meant by 'polite'


>Well I wouldn't do the above.  

Ah, ok. So you'd deliberately turn off the old fashioned signaling so as
to risk the lives of the .1 percent of people who don't have the newer
receivers, for no other reason than to get back at them for not being 'up
to date'.. Ok, good to know where we stand.


I'll try to explain, though only the once as I suspect you're one of those
who can't stand to admit they've set something in a way that doesn't 'fit'
and that no matter how carefully anyone explains it you'll continue with
what you initially thought was best. Rather like a 'merkin top poster.

>Just as I don't tolerate people in 3-wheelers doing 40mph on the motorway.

You're not too hot at this analogy business, are you?

If the majority were to allow for the three wheelers, the system would no
longer function adequately as everyone would be travelling at 40mph. 

However for the majority to allow for the minority over the signaling
protocol costs them nothing and allows the minority to continue to
participate safely. You on the other hand would rather deliberately
penalise the minority, just because you want to insist that they *must* do
it your way, or (in the analogous case) die.

Of course the analogy doesn't really hold here because the majority
continue to include crlf markers as a part of their composition.

Also, to set your client to auto-wrap will often clash with those (the
majority) who do include CRLFs, meaning that you end up with odd line
lengths when their (politely included) crlf appears just after your client
(interferingly set because to not do so means you can't read the
infinite-line-length folk) adds an auto-newline.

The only acceptable compromise is to set your client to autonewline at the
edge of your window, that way it won't touch most people with their
reasonable line lengths but will 'squeeze' the . However it means that the
infinite-length posts are awkward to read as they stretch to the edge of
the screen. Also, it 'feels' (and I wonder if this is just me or if this
includes other folk too) much like a top-posting, as a sign of someone who
doesn't really understand conventions or who refuses to fit in, and it
therefore casts a poor light on the whole message.

To everyone else: yes, I know.. I'm afraid I'm also the one that tries
that 'one time more' with the upside down posters.

Dave J.
0
Dave
2/14/2009 7:27:32 PM
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:27:32 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

> In MsgID<op.uo5fstaj4buhsv@i7> on Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:47:07 -0000, in
> comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc, 'Peter Hucker' wrote:
>
>>> I'd be polite enough to continue using visible flashing lights along with
>>> the 'latest invention' of (say) RF based turn and brake indicators. I
>>> would continue to use the visible version even if I knew that 99.9 percent
>>> of people could receive the RF signals.
>>>
>>> In other words, my 'standard' is to send information in an 'old fashioned'
>>> format (that's certainly accepted by everyone) even if I know that 'the
>>> new standard' has been almost universally adopted. Pretty much as most
>>> internet RFCs recommend.
>>>
>>> I believe *that's* what he meant by 'polite'
>
>
>>Well I wouldn't do the above.
>
> Ah, ok. So you'd deliberately turn off the old fashioned signaling so as
> to risk the lives of the .1 percent of people who don't have the newer
> receivers, for no other reason than to get back at them for not being 'up
> to date'.. Ok, good to know where we stand.

Why continue to use something which only benefits a small minority?

> I'll try to explain, though only the once as I suspect you're one of those
> who can't stand to admit they've set something in a way that doesn't 'fit'
> and that no matter how carefully anyone explains it you'll continue with
> what you initially thought was best. Rather like a 'merkin top poster.
>
>>Just as I don't tolerate people in 3-wheelers doing 40mph on the motorway.
>
> You're not too hot at this analogy business, are you?
>
> If the majority were to allow for the three wheelers, the system would no
> longer function adequately as everyone would be travelling at 40mph.
>
> However for the majority to allow for the minority over the signaling
> protocol costs them nothing and allows the minority to continue to
> participate safely. You on the other hand would rather deliberately
> penalise the minority, just because you want to insist that they *must* do
> it your way, or (in the analogous case) die.
>
> Of course the analogy doesn't really hold here because the majority
> continue to include crlf markers as a part of their composition.
>
> Also, to set your client to auto-wrap will often clash with those (the
> majority) who do include CRLFs, meaning that you end up with odd line
> lengths when their (politely included) crlf appears just after your client
> (interferingly set because to not do so means you can't read the
> infinite-line-length folk) adds an auto-newline.

The autowrap function is what fucks things up most of the time.  When EVERYONE is wrapping.  Stupid newsclients wrap quoted text, so you get orphaned words.

> The only acceptable compromise is to set your client to autonewline at the
> edge of your window, that way it won't touch most people with their
> reasonable line lengths but will 'squeeze' the . However it means that the
> infinite-length posts are awkward to read as they stretch to the edge of
> the screen. Also, it 'feels' (and I wonder if this is just me or if this
> includes other folk too) much like a top-posting, as a sign of someone who
> doesn't really understand conventions or who refuses to fit in, and it
> therefore casts a poor light on the whole message.

Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for yourself, make the world better.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

                      ___
                     / ,_\    ,,,,,
                    /  _)/   /o    (
                    |  \    (_ `    \_________
                    |   \____ >__,_  \        |
                    |              ))  )__,   |
                    \,___________ //  /   \   |_
                              )__//__/     \  __).
                     ________/o     /       \____/
                    /`              \
                   /   \_______   _//
                 _/     \     \     \____ __,--.
                /      /       \          \_),  \
                \_____/         \_________/  \\  \
           ______/_/                         (___/
          /       o\
       ,,,'-----^--',, ,,,,,   ,,,
0
Peter
2/14/2009 7:46:10 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upcw68164buhsv@i7...
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:27:32 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:

> Why continue to use something which only benefits a small minority?
You are arrogant.

>
> The autowrap function is what fucks things up most of the time.  When 
> EVERYONE is wrapping.  Stupid newsclients wrap quoted text, so you get 
> orphaned words.
My newsreader doesnot wrap. - sorry ...
Therefore i use more than stupid newsreader.
As i said before "You are arrogant."

>
> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for 
> yourself, make the world better.
This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are 
just not "arrogant" ....
"Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's 
just a selfish point of vue...
Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better 


0
ray
2/15/2009 4:57:54 PM
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upcw68164buhsv@i7...
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:27:32 -0000, Dave J. <requiem@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> Why continue to use something which only benefits a small minority?
> You are arrogant.

What's your point?

>> The autowrap function is what fucks things up most of the time.  When
>> EVERYONE is wrapping.  Stupid newsclients wrap quoted text, so you get
>> orphaned words.
> My newsreader doesnot wrap. - sorry ...

That's your problem, not mine.

> Therefore i use more than stupid newsreader.

What's that in English?

>> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for
>> yourself, make the world better.
> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
> just not "arrogant" ....
> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
> just a selfish point of vue...
> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better

I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Gardening Rule:
When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it.
If it comes out of theground easily, it is a valuable plant.
0
Peter
2/15/2009 5:53:07 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>>> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for
>>> yourself, make the world better.
>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>> just not "arrogant" ....
>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>> just a selfish point of vue...
>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>
> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.


No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....

"but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time 
when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but 
be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people, 
you don't care ....very ego�st attitude .... 


0
ray
2/15/2009 11:28:23 PM
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>> wrote:
>>>> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for
>>>> yourself, make the world better.
>>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>>> just not "arrogant" ....
>>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>>> just a selfish point of vue...
>>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>>
>> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.
>
>
> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>
> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....

The green light is on only when they press the button.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

One day when the teacher walked into the classroom, she noticed that someone had written the word 'PENIS' (in tiny letters) on the blackboard.
She scanned the class looking for a guilty face. Finding none, she rubbed the word off and began class. 
The next day, the word 'PENIS' was written on the board again, this time it was written about halfway across the board.
Again she looked around in vain for the culprit, so she proceeded with the day's lesson.
Every morning for about a week, she went into the classroom and found the same disgusting word written on the board, each day's being larger than the previous one, and each being rubbed off vigorously. 
At the end of the second week, she walked in expecting to be greeted by the same word on the board but instead found the words: "The more you rub it, the bigger it gets."
0
Peter
2/16/2009 8:11:42 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
> 
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for
>>>>> yourself, make the world better.
>>>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>>>> just not "arrogant" ....
>>>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>>>> just a selfish point of vue...
>>>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>>> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.
>>
>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>
>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
> 
> The green light is on only when they press the button.
> 
> 
He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time 
during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be 
decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care 
.....very ego�st attitude ....
0
Rambo
2/16/2009 10:18:59 PM
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for
>>>>>> yourself, make the world better.
>>>>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>>>>> just not "arrogant" ....
>>>>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>>>>> just a selfish point of vue...
>>>>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>>>> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.
>>>
>>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>>
>>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>
>> The green light is on only when they press the button.
>>
>>
> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
> ....very ego�st attitude ....

The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.

And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is nothing like Shakespeare
0
Peter
2/17/2009 7:00:37 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Do you always follow conventions?  A bit like a sheep?  Try thinking for
>>>>>>> yourself, make the world better.
>>>>>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>>>>>> just not "arrogant" ....
>>>>>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>>>>>> just a selfish point of vue...
>>>>>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>>>>> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.
>>>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>>>
>>>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>>>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>>>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>>>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>> The green light is on only when they press the button.
>>>
>>>
>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>> ....very ego�st attitude ....
> 
> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
"zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
> 
> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length". My 
reply was to explain it to you.

And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
  CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
0
Rambo
2/18/2009 11:51:16 PM
On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>>>>>>> just not "arrogant" ....
>>>>>>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>>>>>>> just a selfish point of vue...
>>>>>>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>>>>>> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.
>>>>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>>>>
>>>>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>>>>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>>>>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>>>>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>>> The green light is on only when they press the button.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>> ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>
>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !

It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.

>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>
> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".

THAT isn't English.

> My reply was to explain it to you.
>
> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)

Geek.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

This space was empty.
0
Peter
2/19/2009 7:38:25 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:57:54 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be>
>>>>>>> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>> This is not because we follow conventions that we are a sheep .... we are
>>>>>>>> just not "arrogant" ....
>>>>>>>> "Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" .... is not true, it's
>>>>>>>> just a selfish point of vue...
>>>>>>>> Try thinking for the other .... the world would be better
>>>>>>> I think for the other, but not when they are a minority.
>>>>>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>>>>>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>>>>>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>>>>>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>>>> The green light is on only when they press the button.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>>> ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
> 
> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.

"Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer 
frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
> 
>>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
> 
> THAT isn't English.
Correct, i rephrase it:
You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
> 
>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>
>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
> 
> Geek.
Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.

Plonk !
0
Rambo
2/20/2009 8:48:23 AM
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...

>>

>>>>>>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>>>>>>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>>>>>>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>>>>>>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>>>>> The green light is on only when they press the button.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>>>> ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>
>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>
> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.

Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.

>>>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>
>> THAT isn't English.
> Correct, i rephrase it:
> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".

I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.

>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>
>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>
>> Geek.
> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.

Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.

> Plonk !

After taking the trouble to reply to all the points.   How stupid can you get?

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

"Last night I played a blank tape at full blast.  The mime next door went nuts."
0
Peter
2/20/2009 8:33:38 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:28:23 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.upemmta84buhsv@i7...
> 
> 
>>>>>>>> No, no, you said."Try thinking for yourself, make the world better" ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "but not when they are a minority."  ... Therefore you think that the time
>>>>>>>> when the green ligth is on to permit the pedestrians to cross the road but
>>>>>>>> be decreased ... just to allow "only the majority"  .... the rest of people,
>>>>>>>> you don't care ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>>>>>> The green light is on only when they press the button.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>>>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>>>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>>>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>>>>> ....very ego�st attitude ....
>>>>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
> 
> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
> 
>>>>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>> THAT isn't English.
>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
> 
> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
> 
>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>
>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>> Geek.
>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
> 
> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
> 
OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph, 
but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac 
it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file 
created by notepad ....
0
Rambo
2/20/2009 11:52:34 PM
"Rambo" <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote in message 
news:499f417b$0$331$5f6aeac3@news.scarlet.nl...
> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Geek.
>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>
>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>
> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph, but 
> he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac it's 
> only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file created by 
> notepad ....

Thanks Rambo - A very good explanation ! 


0
ray
2/20/2009 11:58:00 PM
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>
>>

>>>>>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>>>>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>>>>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>>>>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>>>>>> ....very egoïst attitude ....
>>>>>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>
>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>
>>>>>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>
>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>
>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>> Geek.
>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>
>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>
> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
> created by notepad ....

You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

It was discovered on a space mission that a frog can throw
up. The frog throws up its stomach first, so the stomach is dangling out of
it’s mouth. Then the frog uses its forearms to dig out all of the
stomach’s contents and then swallows the stomach back down again.
0
Peter
2/21/2009 7:20:01 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
> 
>>>
> 
>>>>>>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>>>>>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>>>>>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>>>>>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>>>>>>> ....very egoïst attitude ....
>>>>>>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
>>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>
>>>>>>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>
>>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>>> Geek.
>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>
>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>> created by notepad ....
> 
> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
> 
> 

I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.

What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.

This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.

--
Les Cargill
0
Les
2/21/2009 7:33:44 PM
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:44 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>
>>>>
>>

>>>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>>

>>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>>
>>>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>>>> Geek.
>>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>>
>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>> created by notepad ....
>>
>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
>>
>>
>
> I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.
>
> What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.
>
> This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.

What the hell makes you think the RFC is right?


-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

At one time in my life, I thought I had a handle on the meaning of the word "service".  "The act of doing things for other people." 
Then I heard the terms such as "Internal Revenue Service," "Postal Service," "Civil Service," "Service Stations."
And I became confused about the word "service."   This is not what I thought "service" meant. 
One day, I overheard two farmers talking and one of them mentioned that he was having a bull "service" a few of his cows.
It all came into perspective.
0
Peter
2/21/2009 7:36:08 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:44 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>>>
> 
>>>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>>>>> Geek.
>>>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>>>
>>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>>> created by notepad ....
>>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
>>>
>>>
>> I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.
>>
>> What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.
>>
>> This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.
> 
> What the hell makes you think the RFC is right?
> 
> 

*Boggle*.... you have got to be kidding.

Because it is the RFC. It's a ratified document that states what
protocols are to be used for various services.

You can ignore the RFCs, but expect implementations of
items you use to be here to malfunction. Indeed, that's exactly
what has happened

Respond away; I am done with you.  Willful ignorance is what it is.

--
Les Cargill
0
Les
2/21/2009 7:48:13 PM
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:48:13 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:44 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>
>>

>>>>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>>>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>>>>
>>

>>>>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>>>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>>>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>>>>
>>>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>>>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>>>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>>>> created by notepad ....
>>>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.
>>>
>>> What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.
>>>
>>> This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.
>>
>> What the hell makes you think the RFC is right?
>>
>>
>
> *Boggle*.... you have got to be kidding.
>
> Because it is the RFC. It's a ratified document that states what
> protocols are to be used for various services.
>
> You can ignore the RFCs, but expect implementations of
> items you use to be here to malfunction. Indeed, that's exactly
> what has happened
>
> Respond away; I am done with you.  Willful ignorance is what it is.

RFCs are like the law, they aren't always right.  How many people exceed 70mph on the motorway?

And it looks like you've run away from the discussion, what a pathetic child.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics 
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German,  the chefs British, the mechanics 
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.
0
Peter
2/21/2009 8:01:30 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.uppwkswi4buhsv@i7...
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:48:13 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:44 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... 
>>>>>>>> "Zimmer
>>>>>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>>>>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time 
>>>>>>>> length".
>>>>>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>>>>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a 
>>>>>> paragraph,
>>>>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for 
>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>>>>> created by notepad ....
>>>>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until 
>>>>> you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're 
>>>>> typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new 
>>>>> paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the 
>>>>> text, according to the width of the page.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.
>>>>
>>>> What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.
>>>>
>>>> This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.
>>>
>>> What the hell makes you think the RFC is right?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> *Boggle*.... you have got to be kidding.
>>
>> Because it is the RFC. It's a ratified document that states what
>> protocols are to be used for various services.
>>
>> You can ignore the RFCs, but expect implementations of
>> items you use to be here to malfunction. Indeed, that's exactly
>> what has happened
>>
>> Respond away; I am done with you.  Willful ignorance is what it is.
>
> RFCs are like the law, they aren't always right.

This is not an excuse to not follow the law ..But you are above that .... 
poor people.

If you are so intelligent and bright, change the RFC - Then tell us. 


0
ray
2/21/2009 11:01:44 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:18:59 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
> 
>>>
> 
>>>>>>>> He did not speak about the start time, but he speak about "the time
>>>>>>>> during the green ligth is on". Following your theory, this time must be
>>>>>>>> decreased to permit just "fast enough" people to cross the street.
>>>>>>>> I agree with his conclusion: ... the rest of people, you don't care
>>>>>>>> ....very egoïst attitude ....
>>>>>>> The green light is on for the average person.  It certainly does not allow for zimmer speed.
>>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>
>>>>>>> And unless you're a complete moron, you don't sit at a red light waiting for someone who has finished crossing ages ago.
>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>
>>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>>> Geek.
>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>
>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>> created by notepad ....
> 
> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
> 
> 
I wrote "you did not know what a crlf is. " .... but i change my mind, 
because i should happen the following : you did not know what an "end of 
a line" is.
In fact you did not know what you are saying:
"New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text"
This is unclear and wrong -  but you persist on your false ideas.
For that, i let you stay in this state.
0
Rambo
2/21/2009 11:11:45 PM
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:01:44 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> wrote:

> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.uppwkswi4buhsv@i7...
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:48:13 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:44 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

>>>>
>>

>>

>>>>>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a
>>>>>>> paragraph,
>>>>>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for
>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>>>>>> created by notepad ....
>>>>>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until
>>>>>> you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're
>>>>>> typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new
>>>>>> paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the
>>>>>> text, according to the width of the page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.
>>>>>
>>>>> What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.
>>>>>
>>>>> This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.
>>>>
>>>> What the hell makes you think the RFC is right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Boggle*.... you have got to be kidding.
>>>
>>> Because it is the RFC. It's a ratified document that states what
>>> protocols are to be used for various services.
>>>
>>> You can ignore the RFCs, but expect implementations of
>>> items you use to be here to malfunction. Indeed, that's exactly
>>> what has happened
>>>
>>> Respond away; I am done with you.  Willful ignorance is what it is.
>>
>> RFCs are like the law, they aren't always right.
>
> This is not an excuse to not follow the law ..But you are above that ....
> poor people.
>
> If you are so intelligent and bright, change the RFC - Then tell us.

3 million people are caught (plus who knows how many who aren't caught) every single year for breaking the speed limit.  Looks like laws aren't obeyed.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

The teacher in Johnny's school asked the class what their parents did for a living. One little girl said her father was a doctor, another said her mother was an engineer.  When it was Little Johnny's turn, he stood up and said "My mom's a whore."
Naturally, after that remark, he got sent off to the principal'soffice. Then, 15 minutes later, he returned.
So the teacher asked "Did you tell the principal what you said in class?"
Johnny said "Yes"
"Well, what did the principal say?"
"He said that every job is important in our economy, gave me an apple and asked for my phone number."
0
Peter
2/22/2009 6:06:55 PM
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:11:45 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:

> Peter Hucker wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:

>>
>>>>
>>

>>>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>>

>>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>>
>>>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>>>> Geek.
>>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>>
>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>> created by notepad ....
>>
>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
>>
>>
> I wrote "you did not know what a crlf is. " .... but i change my mind,
> because i should happen the following : you did not know what an "end of
> a line" is.
> In fact you did not know what you are saying:
> "New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text"
> This is unclear and wrong -  but you persist on your false ideas.
> For that, i let you stay in this state.

Type a load of text into notepad without pressing enter.

Choose word wrap from the format menu.

Now resize the window to different widths.

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

                              )      )     )
                        )    /(     /(    /(     )
                  )    /(   ( #)   ( #)  ( #)   /(      )
                 /(   ( #)    |      |     |   ( #)    /(
                ( #)    |    |\|  ) |\|   |\|    |    ( #)
            )     |    |\|   |\| /( |\|   |\|   |\|     |      )
           /(    |\|   |\|   |\|( #)|\|   |\|   |\|    |\|    /(
          ( #)  )|\|   |\|,..'.'--|-'-'---'-'...|\|_   |\|)  ( #)
            |  /(|\|-)''   )     |\|               )''-'\/(    |
           |\|('#)  /(    /(     )\|   )     )    /(    ( #)-.|\|
           |\|  |  ( #)  ( #)   /(\]  /(    /(   ( #)     |   |\|
           |\| |\|   |     |   ( #)  ( #)  ( #)    |     |\|  |\|
           |._ |\|  |\|   |\|    |     |     |    |\|    |\|  ,'|
           |  -'\|  |\|   |\|   |\|   |\|   |\|   |\|    |\|-'  |
           |      '-'\|.__|\|   |\|   |\|   |\|  _|\|.--''      |
           |  @            ''''-'\'---'\'---'\'''           @   |
           |   @   @                                   @   @    |
           |    @@@ @    @                       @    @ @@@     |
           '._       @@@@ @      @       @      @ @@@@        ,'
              -.._         @@@@@@ @     @ @@@@@@          _.-'
                  '--...___        @@@@@         ___..--''
                           ''''-------------'''''
0
Peter
2/22/2009 6:08:13 PM
"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.uprlxtmk4buhsv@i7...
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:01:44 -0000, ray <raymond.schmit@piscarlet.be> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message 
>> news:op.uppwkswi4buhsv@i7...
>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:48:13 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:33:44 -0000, Les Cargill <lcargill@cfl.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a
>>>>>>>> paragraph,
>>>>>>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Mac
>>>>>>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>>>>>>> created by notepad ....
>>>>>>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until
>>>>>>> you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're
>>>>>>> typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a 
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the
>>>>>>> text, according to the width of the page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I posted the RFC. I cut and paste the relevant excerpt from the RFC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the RFC says does not agree with what you say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This means you are wrong. Now stop being persistent in your error.
>>>>>
>>>>> What the hell makes you think the RFC is right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Boggle*.... you have got to be kidding.
>>>>
>>>> Because it is the RFC. It's a ratified document that states what
>>>> protocols are to be used for various services.
>>>>
>>>> You can ignore the RFCs, but expect implementations of
>>>> items you use to be here to malfunction. Indeed, that's exactly
>>>> what has happened
>>>>
>>>> Respond away; I am done with you.  Willful ignorance is what it is.
>>>
>>> RFCs are like the law, they aren't always right.
>>
>> This is not an excuse to not follow the law ..But you are above that ....
>> poor people.
>>
>> If you are so intelligent and bright, change the RFC - Then tell us.
>
> 3 million people are caught (plus who knows how many who aren't caught) 
> every single year for breaking the speed limit.  Looks like laws aren't 
> obeyed.

This is a false excuse. 


0
ray
2/22/2009 10:09:55 PM
Peter Hucker wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:11:45 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
> 
>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:52:34 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:48:23 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:16 -0000, Rambo <Rambo.test@pircarre.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter Hucker wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>>>>> "zimmer spped" ? write in english please !
>>>>>>> It's plain English.  Zimmer speed is the speed of a zimmer frame.
>>>>>> "Zimmer speed" did not give interesting links in Google .... "Zimmer
>>>>>> frame" - Yes .... It's your culture .. not mine.
>>>>> Zimmer speed is obviously the speed of a Zimmer frame.  FFS.
>>>>>
> 
>>>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" and "time length".
>>>>>>> THAT isn't English.
>>>>>> Correct, i rephrase it:
>>>>>> You are the moron while understanding "start time" instead of "time length".
>>>>> I've forgotten what the fuck we were discussing now.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My reply was to explain it to you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And i repeat i agree with his conclusions about not using
>>>>>>>>   CRLF (CarriageReturn - LineFeed)
>>>>>>> Geek.
>>>>>> Stupide reply - or perhaps you did not know what a crlf is.
>>>>> Yes I do.  They are to be used at the end of a paragraph.
>>>>>
>>>> OK, now i understand your problem. crlf is NOT the end of a paragraph,
>>>> but he end of a LINE in windows/dos(for linux it's only a LF and for Mac
>>>> it's only a CR).... You should have a look in binary of a text file
>>>> created by notepad ....
>>> You don't need to mark the end of a line.  The line continues until you want a fresh one, when changing subject.  Imagine when you're typing an essay into Word.  You don't press enter until you want a new paragraph.  New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text, according to the width of the page.
>>>
>>>
>> I wrote "you did not know what a crlf is. " .... but i change my mind,
>> because i should happen the following : you did not know what an "end of
>> a line" is.
>> In fact you did not know what you are saying:
>> "New lines are created temporarily upon displaying the text"
>> This is unclear and wrong -  but you persist on your false ideas.
>> For that, i let you stay in this state.
> 
> Type a load of text into notepad without pressing enter.
> 
> Choose word wrap from the format menu.
> 
> Now resize the window to different widths.
> 
As i said: you persist on your false ideas.
For that, i let you stay in this state.
0
Rambo
2/22/2009 10:12:16 PM
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