My 30-day trial of VMware Workstation ran out. Now I plan to download 
Server, the free version. The question:

If I uninstall Workstation and install Server, will server still find my 
one guest VM?  Mp big deal if it doesn't -- just curious.

Jack

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:15:47 -0500, Jack Crenshaw wrote:

> My 30-day trial of VMware Workstation ran out. Now I plan to download 
> Server, the free version. The question:
> 
> If I uninstall Workstation and install Server, will server still find my 
> one guest VM?  Mp big deal if it doesn't -- just curious.
> 
> Jack

It might not find it auto-magically, but one can import a guest VM by
directing it to the files. The files that make a guest VM can be shared
between workstation and server versions.

Udo Munk
-- 
The real fun is building it and then using it...

Jack Crenshaw wrote:
> My 30-day trial of VMware Workstation ran out. Now I plan to download 
> Server, the free version. The question:
> 
> If I uninstall Workstation and install Server, will server still find my 
> one guest VM?  Mp big deal if it doesn't -- just curious.
>
Hmmm not directly related with comp.os.cpm but as a hint: Try 
virtualbox, it has a GUI and it can use and convert also vmware images.
The VMWare server version works great, but it's not really convinient to 
use it.

Regards
  Peter

Jack Crenshaw wrote:
> My 30-day trial of VMware Workstation ran out. Now I plan to download 
> Server, the free version. The question:
> 
> If I uninstall Workstation and install Server, will server still find my 
> one guest VM?  Mp big deal if it doesn't -- just curious.

You might want to consider using VMware player if you already have a virtual 
machine.  It's much simpler to install and use than VMware server.  Best of 
all it's free-as-in-beer with no expiration or strings attached.

The only thing player won't do is directly create a virtual machine.  However, 
a few minutes with Google will find you any number of sites where you can 
either download a variety of pre-configured images or create one custom by 
filling in a form and downloading the result.

Steven Hirsch wrote:
(snip)

> The only thing player won't do is directly create a virtual machine.  
> However, a few minutes with Google will find you any number of sites 
> where you can either download a variety of pre-configured images or 
> create one custom by filling in a form and downloading the result.

I recommend Scientific Linux, which is available as already installed
in a virtual machine, ready to download and run.

-- glen

Udo Munk wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:15:47 -0500, Jack Crenshaw wrote:
> 
>> My 30-day trial of VMware Workstation ran out. Now I plan to download 
>> Server, the free version. The question:
>>
>> If I uninstall Workstation and install Server, will server still find my 
>> one guest VM?  Mp big deal if it doesn't -- just curious.
>>
>> Jack
> 
> It might not find it auto-magically, but one can import a guest VM by
> directing it to the files. The files that make a guest VM can be shared
> between workstation and server versions.
> 
> Udo Munk

Ok, Udo.  Thanks.

Jack

Peter Dassow wrote:
> Jack Crenshaw wrote:
>> My 30-day trial of VMware Workstation ran out. Now I plan to download 
>> Server, the free version. The question:
>>
>> If I uninstall Workstation and install Server, will server still find 
>> my one guest VM?  Mp big deal if it doesn't -- just curious.
>>
> Hmmm not directly related with comp.os.cpm but ...

I asked the question here because I knew that several folks here do use 
MVware, and in fact recommended it to me.  Sorry for not tacking on an 
"OT" warning in the subject line.

Jack

  as a hint: Try
> virtualbox, it has a GUI and it can use and convert also vmware images.
> The VMWare server version works great, but it's not really convinient to 
> use it.
> 
> Regards
>  Peter
> 

Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> Steven Hirsch wrote:
> (snip)
> 
>> The only thing player won't do is directly create a virtual machine. 
>> However, a few minutes with Google will find you any number of sites
>> where you can either download a variety of pre-configured images or
>> create one custom by filling in a form and downloading the result.
> 
> I recommend Scientific Linux, which is available as already installed
> in a virtual machine, ready to download and run.
> 
> -- glen
> 

Hi all,

 since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.

Thanks,

Uwe.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:44:50 +0100, Uwe Nass <unass@astro.uni-bonn.de>
wrote:

>Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> (snip)
>> 
>>> The only thing player won't do is directly create a virtual machine. 
>>> However, a few minutes with Google will find you any number of sites
>>> where you can either download a variety of pre-configured images or
>>> create one custom by filling in a form and downloading the result.
>> 
>> I recommend Scientific Linux, which is available as already installed
>> in a virtual machine, ready to download and run.
>> 
>> -- glen
>> 
>
>Hi all,
>
> since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
>anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.
>
>Thanks,

Yep, I had to load it from the same disk set  I'd use for any x86
machine.  Works fine runs very fast.

You can load OSs into player but it will require a floppy , or other
loadable media.


Allison


>Uwe.

localhost@127.0.01.net wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:44:50 +0100, Uwe Nass <unass@astro.uni-bonn.de>
> wrote:
> 
>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>>> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>>> The only thing player won't do is directly create a virtual machine. 
>>>> However, a few minutes with Google will find you any number of sites
>>>> where you can either download a variety of pre-configured images or
>>>> create one custom by filling in a form and downloading the result.
>>> I recommend Scientific Linux, which is available as already installed
>>> in a virtual machine, ready to download and run.
>>>
>>> -- glen
>>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
>> anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.
>>
>> Thanks,
> 
> Yep, I had to load it from the same disk set  I'd use for any x86
> machine.  Works fine runs very fast.
> 
> You can load OSs into player but it will require a floppy , or other
> loadable media.
> 
> 
> Allison
> 
> 
>> Uwe.
> 
Hi Allison,

 thanks for your response, but I can't see how to install a guest
system under "VMWARE workstation 6.5" from a bootable floppy!
Any hints?

Thanks,

Uwe.

Uwe Nass wrote:

>  thanks for your response, but I can't see how to install a guest
> system under "VMWARE workstation 6.5" from a bootable floppy!

Just create a virtual machine, specifying the OS as Other --> MSDOS.  You 
probably want to keep the hard drive size < 32 MB, as ISTR there are issues 
with large volumes and CP/M-86.  Once created, start the VM.  When the splash 
screen appears, hit the magic key sequence for the BIOS setup and tell it to 
boot from the floppy.  Insert install diskette and restart.

Steven Hirsch wrote:
> Uwe Nass wrote:
> 
>>  thanks for your response, but I can't see how to install a guest
>> system under "VMWARE workstation 6.5" from a bootable floppy!
> 
> Just create a virtual machine, specifying the OS as Other --> MSDOS. 
> You probably want to keep the hard drive size < 32 MB, as ISTR there are
> issues with large volumes and CP/M-86.  Once created, start the VM. 
> When the splash screen appears, hit the magic key sequence for the BIOS
> setup and tell it to boot from the floppy.  Insert install diskette and
> restart.
> 

Hi Steven,

 THANKS! At least I could install MSDOS 6.22 as a guest system under
Linux. But now I face another problem: I tried to boot CP/M-86, PCP/M,
CDOS v4.1 and CDOS v6.21 from my floppy (not under VMWARE!) and my
PC didn't find the boot record (or something similar). May be this is
not the right group to ask, but on older PC's this was never a problem!
Is the boot sequence different between the above mentioned OS's and
MSDOS? Can newer PC's - like mine - decide between these boot sequences?

Thanks again,

Uwe.

Uwe Nass wrote:
> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> Uwe Nass wrote:
>>
>>>  thanks for your response, but I can't see how to install a guest
>>> system under "VMWARE workstation 6.5" from a bootable floppy!
>> Just create a virtual machine, specifying the OS as Other --> MSDOS. 
>> You probably want to keep the hard drive size < 32 MB, as ISTR there are
>> issues with large volumes and CP/M-86.  Once created, start the VM. 
>> When the splash screen appears, hit the magic key sequence for the BIOS
>> setup and tell it to boot from the floppy.  Insert install diskette and
>> restart.
>>
> 
> Hi Steven,
> 
>  THANKS! At least I could install MSDOS 6.22 as a guest system under
> Linux. But now I face another problem: I tried to boot CP/M-86, PCP/M,
> CDOS v4.1 and CDOS v6.21 from my floppy (not under VMWARE!) and my
> PC didn't find the boot record (or something similar). May be this is
> not the right group to ask, but on older PC's this was never a problem!
> Is the boot sequence different between the above mentioned OS's and
> MSDOS? Can newer PC's - like mine - decide between these boot sequences?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "decide between these boot sequences". 
  Can you rephrase the question?

Steven Hirsch wrote:
> Uwe Nass wrote:
>> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>>> Uwe Nass wrote:
>>>
>>>>  thanks for your response, but I can't see how to install a guest
>>>> system under "VMWARE workstation 6.5" from a bootable floppy!
>>> Just create a virtual machine, specifying the OS as Other --> MSDOS.
>>> You probably want to keep the hard drive size < 32 MB, as ISTR there are
>>> issues with large volumes and CP/M-86.  Once created, start the VM.
>>> When the splash screen appears, hit the magic key sequence for the BIOS
>>> setup and tell it to boot from the floppy.  Insert install diskette and
>>> restart.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Steven,
>>
>>  THANKS! At least I could install MSDOS 6.22 as a guest system under
>> Linux. But now I face another problem: I tried to boot CP/M-86, PCP/M,
>> CDOS v4.1 and CDOS v6.21 from my floppy (not under VMWARE!) and my
>> PC didn't find the boot record (or something similar). May be this is
>> not the right group to ask, but on older PC's this was never a problem!
>> Is the boot sequence different between the above mentioned OS's and
>> MSDOS? Can newer PC's - like mine - decide between these boot sequences?
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "decide between these boot
> sequences".  Can you rephrase the question?

Hi all,

 sorry for the confusion! Let me state ny "problem" again:

1) I wanted to install CP/M-86 under VMWARE, but I didn't know how
   to install such systems (e.g. MSDOS) from a floppy. Thanks to
   Steven this problem is solved. MSDOS works fine.

2) I then tried it with CP/M-86 but it didn't work :-( So I thought
   that this might be a BIOS/VMWARE problem and I tried booting my
   PC (powered by a dual core Intel processor) with this 3.5"
   bootable CP/M-86 disk. It didnt work, because the boot sector was not
   recognized. I then tried it with other older OS's as mentioned in
   my earlier post. No chance! MSDOS could be bootet this way! So I
   think, that it is possible to install these older systems under
   VMWARE if I can boot them directly.

So the question is (may be not relevant to this group): Are there
differences between booting a MSDOS floppy and e.g. booting a CP/M-86
floppy? Up to now I thought the BIOS graps the first sector (512 bytes)
and put it into memory and then jumps to the beginning of the code.
Is this in newer PC's BIOS's different? In older one's it seems to work
this way.

Thanks again,

Uwe.

Uwe Nass wrote:
> 
.... snip ...
> 
> So the question is (may be not relevant to this group): Are there
> differences between booting a MSDOS floppy and e.g. booting a
> CP/M-86 floppy? Up to now I thought the BIOS graps the first
> sector (512 bytes) and put it into memory and then jumps to the
> beginning of the code. Is this in newer PC's BIOS's different? In
> older one's it seems to work this way.

That first sector has space for a disk segment map, and includes a
checksum.  Checksum failure should prevent execution of the code.  

Later MSDOS and CPM86 broke up the disk differently.  Use the
correct formatter.  Luckily that doesn't affect the location of
that first sector.

-- 
 [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) 
 [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
            Try the download section.

Uwe Nass wrote:

 >
(snip)
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>  since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
> anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Uwe.

Hi Uwe,

I have the following DRI operating systems running under VMware
3.1 on a Windows XP host system.

    CPM86-1.1, CCPM-1.0, CCPM-3.1, CPCDOS-3.2, CDOS386R2,
    CDOS386R3, DOSPLS-1.2, CPM86Plus, PCPM204E, DRDOS-3.41,
    MUDOS5.10, CDOSXM-5.21.

There are many things to consider when creating a virtual
machine to run the earlier version operating systems.

1) Floppy disk images

    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.

2) The AT Patch

    The AT patched version of CP/M 1.1 is needed to avoid problems
    when certain interrupts not used in earlier PC are activated.
    I posted in comp.os.cpm a modified version for CCPM31.
    Later operating systems mostly seem to be OK.

    There are many other bits of relevant information in
    comp.os.cpm discussions in the last few years.

3) BIOS settings

    To make the virtual machine look more like an old PC try the
    following BIOS settings in the virtual machine.

    Diskette: 1.44
    Hard drive: Type: User, Cylinders: 1023, Head: 9, Sectors: 17
       This would be a Seagate ST-4096.
       Disable Multi-Sector Transfers, LBA Mode Control, 32 Bit I/O.
       Transfer mode: Standard
       Ultra DMA Mode: Disabled

4) To set up a virtual hard drive.

    Boot virtual machine from an early MS-DOS floppy, perhaps
    version 3.3 to 5.x and use FDISK to partition the drive.
    You can also use HDMAINT but I had problems using MS-DOS
    partitions after doing so. Leave space for a CP/M partition.
    You don't need to format the CP/M partition yet.

    Boot virtual machine from CP/M 1.1 floppy and run HDMAINT.
    Use it to create a CP/M partition, format it and then to mark
    it bootable. Reboot.

    Copy the CP/M files to the new C: CP/M partition. Now reset
    and CP/M should boot.

5) Modern processors push a lot more data on the stack during an
    interrupt. The stack size in older operating systems may not
    be large enough in some cases. I haven't noticed any problems
    yet though.

If you have further questions about creating a virtual machine
please let me know.

Jeffrey W. Shook

Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:

>    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
>    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
>    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
>    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
>    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
>    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
>    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.

VMware 3.1??  Is that a typo?  If not, you're working with an absolutely 
ancient (>8 years) version.

Steven Hirsch wrote:
> Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
> 
>>    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
>>    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
>>    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
>>    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
>>    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
>>    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
>>    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.
> 
> VMware 3.1??  Is that a typo?  If not, you're working with an absolutely 
> ancient (>8 years) version.

Hi Steven,

True, it is ancient but paid for, and CP/M is ancient also.
I use VMware Server for more modern things.

Jeff

Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
> Steven Hirsch wrote:
>> Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
>>
>>>    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
>>>    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
>>>    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
>>>    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
>>>    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
>>>    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
>>>    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.
>>
>> VMware 3.1??  Is that a typo?  If not, you're working with an 
>> absolutely ancient (>8 years) version.
> 
> Hi Steven,
> 
> True, it is ancient but paid for, and CP/M is ancient also.
> I use VMware Server for more modern things.

Are you aware that VMware Player is free-as-in-beer?  Might be a good upgrade 
for the classic systems.

Hi Jeffrey,

Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
> Uwe Nass wrote:
> 
>>
> (snip)
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>  since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
>> anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Uwe.
> 
> Hi Uwe,
> 
> I have the following DRI operating systems running under VMware
> 3.1 on a Windows XP host system.
> 
>    CPM86-1.1, CCPM-1.0, CCPM-3.1, CPCDOS-3.2, CDOS386R2,
>    CDOS386R3, DOSPLS-1.2, CPM86Plus, PCPM204E, DRDOS-3.41,
>    MUDOS5.10, CDOSXM-5.21.

Very interesting!

> 
> There are many things to consider when creating a virtual
> machine to run the earlier version operating systems.
> 
> 1) Floppy disk images
> 
>    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
>    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
>    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
>    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
>    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
>    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
>    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.
>

I am interested in that program and will it give a try to my problem!
May be it solves it.

> 2) The AT Patch
> 
>    The AT patched version of CP/M 1.1 is needed to avoid problems
>    when certain interrupts not used in earlier PC are activated.
>    I posted in comp.os.cpm a modified version for CCPM31.
>    Later operating systems mostly seem to be OK.
> 
>    There are many other bits of relevant information in
>    comp.os.cpm discussions in the last few years.
>

I used your patch to install CCPM31 on a pentium class computer.
Fine work!

> 3) BIOS settings
> 
>    To make the virtual machine look more like an old PC try the
>    following BIOS settings in the virtual machine.
> 
>    Diskette: 1.44
>    Hard drive: Type: User, Cylinders: 1023, Head: 9, Sectors: 17
>       This would be a Seagate ST-4096.
>       Disable Multi-Sector Transfers, LBA Mode Control, 32 Bit I/O.
>       Transfer mode: Standard
>       Ultra DMA Mode: Disabled
> 
> 4) To set up a virtual hard drive.
> 
>    Boot virtual machine from an early MS-DOS floppy, perhaps
>    version 3.3 to 5.x and use FDISK to partition the drive.
>    You can also use HDMAINT but I had problems using MS-DOS
>    partitions after doing so. Leave space for a CP/M partition.
>    You don't need to format the CP/M partition yet.
> 
>    Boot virtual machine from CP/M 1.1 floppy and run HDMAINT.

That's my problem: I can't boot CP/M 1.1, CDOS 6.21, etc. on my PC,
even if I try it directly, i.e. shut down the system, put the diskette
in the system and power it up again. The boot sector is not recognized.
Is there a difference between an Intel 32-bit boot sequence and an Intel
64-bit boot sequence? If so, why can I boot MSDOS 6.22 and install it
even under VMWARWE workstation 6.5?

>    Use it to create a CP/M partition, format it and then to mark
>    it bootable. Reboot.
> 
>    Copy the CP/M files to the new C: CP/M partition. Now reset
>    and CP/M should boot.
> 
> 5) Modern processors push a lot more data on the stack during an
>    interrupt. The stack size in older operating systems may not
>    be large enough in some cases. I haven't noticed any problems
>    yet though.
> 
> If you have further questions about creating a virtual machine
> please let me know.
> 
> Jeffrey W. Shook

Thanks again,

Uwe.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:57:19 +0100, Uwe Nass <unass@astro.uni-bonn.de>
wrote:

>Hi Jeffrey,
>
>Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
>> Uwe Nass wrote:
>> 
>>>
>> (snip)
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>  since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
>>> anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Uwe.
>> 
>> Hi Uwe,
>> 
>> I have the following DRI operating systems running under VMware
>> 3.1 on a Windows XP host system.
>> 
>>    CPM86-1.1, CCPM-1.0, CCPM-3.1, CPCDOS-3.2, CDOS386R2,
>>    CDOS386R3, DOSPLS-1.2, CPM86Plus, PCPM204E, DRDOS-3.41,
>>    MUDOS5.10, CDOSXM-5.21.
>
>Very interesting!
>
>> 
>> There are many things to consider when creating a virtual
>> machine to run the earlier version operating systems.
>> 
>> 1) Floppy disk images
>> 
>>    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
>>    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
>>    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
>>    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
>>    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
>>    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
>>    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.
>>
>
>I am interested in that program and will it give a try to my problem!
>May be it solves it.
>
>> 2) The AT Patch
>> 
>>    The AT patched version of CP/M 1.1 is needed to avoid problems
>>    when certain interrupts not used in earlier PC are activated.
>>    I posted in comp.os.cpm a modified version for CCPM31.
>>    Later operating systems mostly seem to be OK.
>> 
>>    There are many other bits of relevant information in
>>    comp.os.cpm discussions in the last few years.
>>
>
>I used your patch to install CCPM31 on a pentium class computer.
>Fine work!
>
>> 3) BIOS settings
>> 
>>    To make the virtual machine look more like an old PC try the
>>    following BIOS settings in the virtual machine.
>> 
>>    Diskette: 1.44
>>    Hard drive: Type: User, Cylinders: 1023, Head: 9, Sectors: 17
>>       This would be a Seagate ST-4096.
>>       Disable Multi-Sector Transfers, LBA Mode Control, 32 Bit I/O.
>>       Transfer mode: Standard
>>       Ultra DMA Mode: Disabled
>> 
>> 4) To set up a virtual hard drive.
>> 
>>    Boot virtual machine from an early MS-DOS floppy, perhaps
>>    version 3.3 to 5.x and use FDISK to partition the drive.
>>    You can also use HDMAINT but I had problems using MS-DOS
>>    partitions after doing so. Leave space for a CP/M partition.
>>    You don't need to format the CP/M partition yet.
>> 
>>    Boot virtual machine from CP/M 1.1 floppy and run HDMAINT.
>
>That's my problem: I can't boot CP/M 1.1, CDOS 6.21, etc. on my PC,
>even if I try it directly, i.e. shut down the system, put the diskette
>in the system and power it up again. The boot sector is not recognized.
>Is there a difference between an Intel 32-bit boot sequence and an Intel
>64-bit boot sequence? If so, why can I boot MSDOS 6.22 and install it
>even under VMWARWE workstation 6.5?
>
>>    Use it to create a CP/M partition, format it and then to mark
>>    it bootable. Reboot.
>> 
>>    Copy the CP/M files to the new C: CP/M partition. Now reset
>>    and CP/M should boot.
>> 
>> 5) Modern processors push a lot more data on the stack during an
>>    interrupt. The stack size in older operating systems may not
>>    be large enough in some cases. I haven't noticed any problems
>>    yet though.
>> 
>> If you have further questions about creating a virtual machine
>> please let me know.
>> 
>> Jeffrey W. Shook
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Uwe.

One little detail oft forgottten.  If the host only knows X the the VM
is likely limited to X.  Likely the host sytem ony know of 1.44mb
so any floppy has to be that by default.


Allison

Uwe Nass wrote:
> Hi Jeffrey,
> 
> Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
>> Uwe Nass wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>  since we are discussing VMware here in this group.... I wonder, if
>>> anbody out there has successfully created an CP/M-86 image for it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Uwe.
>> Hi Uwe,
>>
>> I have the following DRI operating systems running under VMware
>> 3.1 on a Windows XP host system.
>>
>>    CPM86-1.1, CCPM-1.0, CCPM-3.1, CPCDOS-3.2, CDOS386R2,
>>    CDOS386R3, DOSPLS-1.2, CPM86Plus, PCPM204E, DRDOS-3.41,
>>    MUDOS5.10, CDOSXM-5.21.
> 
> Very interesting!
> 
>> There are many things to consider when creating a virtual
>> machine to run the earlier version operating systems.
>>
>> 1) Floppy disk images
>>
>>    VMware 3.1 doesn't seem to understand any floppy image other
>>    than 1.44 MB 3.5 in. I use a program I wrote to copy the raw
>>    disk image of a CP/M 1.1 disk into a 1.44MB image sector by
>>    sector and track by track. This leaves a lot of blank sectors
>>    but VMware ignores them anyway. The image can now be written
>>    to a real floppy disk and VMware will happily read it.
>>    I don't know if the above will apply on a Linux host or not.
>>
> 
> I am interested in that program and will it give a try to my problem!
> May be it solves it.
> 
>> 2) The AT Patch
>>
>>    The AT patched version of CP/M 1.1 is needed to avoid problems
>>    when certain interrupts not used in earlier PC are activated.
>>    I posted in comp.os.cpm a modified version for CCPM31.
>>    Later operating systems mostly seem to be OK.
>>
>>    There are many other bits of relevant information in
>>    comp.os.cpm discussions in the last few years.
>>
> 
> I used your patch to install CCPM31 on a pentium class computer.
> Fine work!
> 
>> 3) BIOS settings
>>
>>    To make the virtual machine look more like an old PC try the
>>    following BIOS settings in the virtual machine.
>>
>>    Diskette: 1.44
>>    Hard drive: Type: User, Cylinders: 1023, Head: 9, Sectors: 17
>>       This would be a Seagate ST-4096.
>>       Disable Multi-Sector Transfers, LBA Mode Control, 32 Bit I/O.
>>       Transfer mode: Standard
>>       Ultra DMA Mode: Disabled
>>
>> 4) To set up a virtual hard drive.
>>
>>    Boot virtual machine from an early MS-DOS floppy, perhaps
>>    version 3.3 to 5.x and use FDISK to partition the drive.
>>    You can also use HDMAINT but I had problems using MS-DOS
>>    partitions after doing so. Leave space for a CP/M partition.
>>    You don't need to format the CP/M partition yet.
>>
>>    Boot virtual machine from CP/M 1.1 floppy and run HDMAINT.
> 
> That's my problem: I can't boot CP/M 1.1, CDOS 6.21, etc. on my PC,
> even if I try it directly, i.e. shut down the system, put the diskette
> in the system and power it up again. The boot sector is not recognized.
> Is there a difference between an Intel 32-bit boot sequence and an Intel
> 64-bit boot sequence? If so, why can I boot MSDOS 6.22 and install it
> even under VMWARWE workstation 6.5?

It is not clear to me what kind of CP/M 1.1 disk you were trying to
boot. The original disks were 320K 5.25 inch. Do you have such a
drive attached to your computer or were you perhaps using a disk
with the 144CPM86 software which allows creating a bootable 1.44 MB
CP/M 1.1 disk?

I tried a couple of experiments to see what I could do to get CP/M
86 1.1 to boot on a modern computer.

First I formatted a 1.44 MB 3.5 disk as 720K by putting a sticker
over the density indicator hole before the format. Then I attached
the floppy drive to a VMware CP/M 1.1 virtual machine and used
HDMAINT to copy the virtual boot disk onto the real floppy. Then
I put the floppy in a computer with an AMD K6 350 CPU and booted.
It booted OK and I could run the programs. Next I tried the floppy
in my WinXP machine with an AMD Athlon 64 3400+ CPU and it booted
part way and then complained about not finding sector 22000 or so.
When I told it to accept the sector the screen filled with colorful
random characters and it crashed.

Second experiment. I used a virtual MS-DOS system to make a 144CPM86
floppy on another 1.44 MB 3.5 disk. This floppy crashed VMware when
I tried to boot it in the VM. It booted OK in the AMD K6 machine
after some complaining that the floppy was write protected. I have
not tried it yet in the Athlon 64 machine.

So some machines work and some don't. The early DRI CP/M operating
systems were written for PC XT machines and used BIOS calls to
access the disks. Perhaps some newer computers have a BIOS which
doesn't perform some operation in the same way it was done on the XT.

Perhaps someone else has some other ideas of what could go wrong.

Jeff

> 
>>    Use it to create a CP/M partition, format it and then to mark
>>    it bootable. Reboot.
>>
>>    Copy the CP/M files to the new C: CP/M partition. Now reset
>>    and CP/M should boot.
>>
>> 5) Modern processors push a lot more data on the stack during an
>>    interrupt. The stack size in older operating systems may not
>>    be large enough in some cases. I haven't noticed any problems
>>    yet though.
>>
>> If you have further questions about creating a virtual machine
>> please let me know.
>>
>> Jeffrey W. Shook
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Uwe.

Hello, Jeffrey!

My last messages to you do not seem to have reached you, since I never
got an answer...

So, could you send me a message to my private e-mail address?

We need to re-synchronize.

Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France

Hi all again,

 I made some experiments with VmWare Workstation v6.5.1 and
CP/M-86 and had a kind of success! First I downloaded the
1.44" disk image that is hosted on Gaby's site (144cpm86.zip).
Booting my computer directly from this floppy doesn't work :-(.
But... booting it under VmWare works! I could boot, format a
hard disk partition (~ 7.5 MB) and installed CP/M-86 on it.
Then I tried to boot from this virtuell hard disk. Nope....
system says: "No CPM.SYS or CCPM.SYS file on the hard disk".
Booting with floppy works and all files are on the B: drive,
even CPM.SYS. But not during the boot sequence.

Can it be that Linux (VmWare, CP/M) thinks it is a SCSI drive?
The virtuell disk image is part of a SATA disk and known as
/dev/sdb1. Or do you have another hint?

Thanks again,

Uwe.

Uwe Nass wrote:
> Hi all again,
> 
>  I made some experiments with VmWare Workstation v6.5.1 and
> CP/M-86 and had a kind of success! First I downloaded the
> 1.44" disk image that is hosted on Gaby's site (144cpm86.zip).
> Booting my computer directly from this floppy doesn't work :-(.
> But... booting it under VmWare works! I could boot, format a
> hard disk partition (~ 7.5 MB) and installed CP/M-86 on it.
> Then I tried to boot from this virtuell hard disk. Nope....
> system says: "No CPM.SYS or CCPM.SYS file on the hard disk".
> Booting with floppy works and all files are on the B: drive,
> even CPM.SYS. But not during the boot sequence.
> 
> Can it be that Linux (VmWare, CP/M) thinks it is a SCSI drive?
> The virtuell disk image is part of a SATA disk and known as
> /dev/sdb1. Or do you have another hint?

You can configure VMware to use either IDE or SCSI virtual drives.  Don't 
confuse this with the actual volume where the virtual drive files live on the 
host - that's not relevant.

Hi Uwe

Uwe Nass wrote:
> Hi all again,
> 
>  I made some experiments with VmWare Workstation v6.5.1 and
> CP/M-86 and had a kind of success! First I downloaded the
> 1.44" disk image that is hosted on Gaby's site (144cpm86.zip).
> Booting my computer directly from this floppy doesn't work :-(.
> But... booting it under VmWare works! I could boot, format a
> hard disk partition (~ 7.5 MB) and installed CP/M-86 on it.
> Then I tried to boot from this virtuell hard disk. Nope....
> system says: "No CPM.SYS or CCPM.SYS file on the hard disk".
> Booting with floppy works and all files are on the B: drive,
> even CPM.SYS. But not during the boot sequence.
> 
> Can it be that Linux (VmWare, CP/M) thinks it is a SCSI drive?
> The virtuell disk image is part of a SATA disk and known as
> /dev/sdb1. Or do you have another hint?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Uwe.

I repeated the process of creating a VMware virtual machine
running CP/M-86 from the 144CPM86 archive. I took notes on
the steps required. I think the problems you are having may
be due to two things.

1) CP/M-86 HDMAINT shows the hard drive as B: in its display
    but it actually uses C:.

2) You must remember to mark the CP/M-86 partition bootable.

I hope this will help you get it working. I have attached
my notes below in case there is still a problem or in case
others want to do this.

Jeff


================================================================
Notes on creating a VMware 3.1 machine for CP/M 86 1.1 using the 
144cpm86.zip file.

20090302 jws

Create a 144CPM86 floppy image for VMware

    Could also do this by booting a PC into MS-DOS.
    Does not seem to work when done in a WinXP command window.

1) Use MS-DOS 6.22 in a virtual machine booting from c:
2) Copy 144CPM86 disk create files from archive to a 1.44MB
    floppy. Mount as B:
3) Create a blank 1.44MB floppy image file for CopyQM to write
    image to. Mount as A:
4) Boot MS-DOS
5) Switch to B:
6) Run MAKEDISK.BAT,
    Wait for CopyQM to show "Press Any Key to Continue", do so.
    Enter 1 for copy count, press Enter.
    When message from 16 bit MSDOS system appears, click Ignore.
    Wait while CopyQM formats disk, then press Esc, F10.

Create a VMware virtual machine

1) Use these settings: Typical, MS-DOS, choose loc., no Net.
2) Do Config edit: Create new virtual IDE disk, 0.1GB, named
    CPM86-Q540.
3) Connect 144CPM86 floppy disk image to A:
4) Boot virtual machine, press F2 to enter setup.
5) Change HD settings to 512 cyl, 8 head, 17 sectors
   (Quantum Q540).
6) Disable all 5 of the HD settings at bottom of screen.
7) Press Esc, F10 to restart virtual machine, Yes, save config.

Prepare the CP/M-86 partition on the hard drive

1) Run HDMAINT
    Press F1, F6, F10, F10 to create a CP/M 86 partition
          F1, F4, F2, F10 to mark the partition as bootable
          F9 to exit HDMAINT
    HDMAINT reboots VM from A:
    Note that HDMAINT refers to the hard drive as B: but CP/M-86
    will see it as C:.

2) At the CPM prompt on A: type PIP C:=A:*.*[rv]
    Now all the CP/M-86 files are on C: and it should boot.
    Set the A: image file to "do not connect at power on".
    Reset the VM.

3) Now CP/M-86 should boot from C:.
    Note that HDMAINT seems to crash when run after booting from
    C: although it works fine when booted from a floppy.

-

Hello, Jeffrey!

My last messages to you do not seem to have reached you, since I never
got an answer...

So, could you send me a message to my private e-mail address?

We need to re-synchronize.

Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Emmanuel Roche, France

Hi Jeffrey,

Jeffrey W. Shook wrote:
> Hi Uwe
> 
> Uwe Nass wrote:
>> Hi all again,
>>
>>  I made some experiments with VmWare Workstation v6.5.1 and
>> CP/M-86 and had a kind of success! First I downloaded the
>> 1.44" disk image that is hosted on Gaby's site (144cpm86.zip).
>> Booting my computer directly from this floppy doesn't work :-(.
>> But... booting it under VmWare works! I could boot, format a
>> hard disk partition (~ 7.5 MB) and installed CP/M-86 on it.
>> Then I tried to boot from this virtuell hard disk. Nope....
>> system says: "No CPM.SYS or CCPM.SYS file on the hard disk".
>> Booting with floppy works and all files are on the B: drive,
>> even CPM.SYS. But not during the boot sequence.
>>
>> Can it be that Linux (VmWare, CP/M) thinks it is a SCSI drive?
>> The virtuell disk image is part of a SATA disk and known as
>> /dev/sdb1. Or do you have another hint?
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Uwe.
> 
> I repeated the process of creating a VMware virtual machine
> running CP/M-86 from the 144CPM86 archive. I took notes on
> the steps required. I think the problems you are having may
> be due to two things.
> 
> 1) CP/M-86 HDMAINT shows the hard drive as B: in its display
>    but it actually uses C:.
> 
> 2) You must remember to mark the CP/M-86 partition bootable.
> 
> I hope this will help you get it working. I have attached
> my notes below in case there is still a problem or in case
> others want to do this.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> ================================================================
> Notes on creating a VMware 3.1 machine for CP/M 86 1.1 using the
> 144cpm86.zip file.
> 
> 20090302 jws
> 
> Create a 144CPM86 floppy image for VMware
> 

I did this on another PC!

> 
> Create a VMware virtual machine
> 
> 1) Use these settings: Typical, MS-DOS, choose loc., no Net.
> 2) Do Config edit: Create new virtual IDE disk, 0.1GB, named
>    CPM86-Q540.
> 3) Connect 144CPM86 floppy disk image to A:
> 4) Boot virtual machine, press F2 to enter setup.

In VMWARE Worstation v6.5 you have to press ESC and goto
<Setup>!

> 5) Change HD settings to 512 cyl, 8 head, 17 sectors
>   (Quantum Q540).

Done.

> 6) Disable all 5 of the HD settings at bottom of screen.

Done.

> 7) Press Esc, F10 to restart virtual machine, Yes, save config.
>

OK.

> Prepare the CP/M-86 partition on the hard drive
> 
> 1) Run HDMAINT
>    Press F1, F6, F10, F10 to create a CP/M 86 partition
>          F1, F4, F2, F10 to mark the partition as bootable
>          F9 to exit HDMAINT
>    HDMAINT reboots VM from A:
>    Note that HDMAINT refers to the hard drive as B: but CP/M-86
>    will see it as C:.
> 
> 2) At the CPM prompt on A: type PIP C:=A:*.*[rv]
>    Now all the CP/M-86 files are on C: and it should boot.
>    Set the A: image file to "do not connect at power on".
>    Reset the VM.
> 
> 3) Now CP/M-86 should boot from C:.
>    Note that HDMAINT seems to crash when run after booting from
>    C: although it works fine when booted from a floppy.
> 
> -

This is not quite correct. But the idea that CPM.SYS is searched
on C: was a good hint! I went back to the SETUP stage and faked
a B: floppy in the VM BIOS! Then everything worked nicely!

HDMAINT really crashes when invoked from the virtuell hard disk.

Thanks again,

Uwe.