f



[News] Desktop GNU/Linux a Better Mac Than Mac OS X

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Hash: SHA1

Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS

,----[ Quote ]
| So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking for 
| commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are looking at 
| extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably even more than 
| the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to future versions, Ubuntu 
| offers that. If you are looking for ease of use, Ubuntu offers that. If you 
| are looking for robustness and security, Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can be 
| installed on all types of hardware and even on older hardware. Mac OS does 
| not offer this flexibility.       
| 
| The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac OS. 
| Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
| Windows and not Ubuntu?  
`----

http://prosenjit23.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/switch-to-ubuntu-linux-not-apple-mac-os/


Recent:

Dell Mini Inspiron 9

,----[ Quote ]
| I’m living the dream, I tell you! I’ve swapped my MacBook for a Dell Mini and
| so far the experience has been pretty positive.
`----

http://jonrob.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/dell-mini-inspiron-9/


Moving from Mac to Ubuntu: Why I’m switching

,----[ Quote ]
| Why I’m leaving Mac
|
|    1. Crap file management.The Finder doesn’t work for me. No location bar
|    and no tree strucure side panel makes it difficult to navigate folders and
|    move files around the way I want to.
|    2. Insufficient panels & customization. In Ubuntu I can have as many
|    panels I want, can put all kinds of stuff on them, and can arrange them
|    however I want. In OSX You just have the dock, and you can really only put
|    applications or files on them, and you can’t even put in a separator to
|    keep them organized.
|    3. Various other annoyances. Such as:
|           * program menus are glued to the top of the screen on one monitor
|           only, which detaches them from the window. This is especailly
|           annoying when the program you’re using is on the second monitor.
|           * the date/time doesn’t open to a navigable calendar. I often use
|           this to check dates in the past or future.
|           * you can’t see hidden files unless you run a command from the
|           terminal to turn them on. Thus, hidden files are either always on
|           or always off.
`----

http://meganmcdermott.com/2008/08/29/moving-mac-ubuntu-switching/
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/18/2008 1:40:54 PM
comp.os.linux.advocacy 124139 articles. 3 followers. Post Follow

88 Replies
980 Views

Similar Articles

[PageSpeed] 52

"Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
news:1651924.rMZ0WqjcMP@schestowitz.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking 
> for
> | commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are looking 
> at
> | extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably even more 
> than
> | the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to future versions, 
> Ubuntu
> | offers that. If you are looking for ease of use, Ubuntu offers that. If 
> you
> | are looking for robustness and security, Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can 
> be
> | installed on all types of hardware and even on older hardware. Mac OS 
> does
> | not offer this flexibility.
> |
> | The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
> OS.
> | Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over
> | Windows and not Ubuntu?
> `----
>
> http://prosenjit23.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/switch-to-ubuntu-linux-not-apple-mac-os/
>

From the comments:

<quote>
Hugh Says:
October 18, 2008 at 5:02 am

Nice way to end an article. Imply anyone who doesn't agree with you is 
either a "snob" or "an idiot".

I am neither. I use Windows, Mac, OpenBSD, Linux and at work many customized 
Linux and non Linux OSes that run on appliances. Like Juniper SA.

As others have said, a ready to go experience and marketing are some 
barriers.

The other thing is, even as an IT professional, sometimes RPMs don't work, 
and sometimes people offering software want you to compile source and you 
don't have all the pre-reqs or dependencies. Sometimes I can get to that 
work, sometimes not. How on earth are non IT literate users supposed to make 
software work.

Or how about fiddling with XFree86.conf or Xorg to wrestle a graphics card 
to work. Boring.

OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises 
this.

</quote> 


0
zeke7545 (533)
10/18/2008 2:08:46 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> <quote> 
> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises 
> this.
> </quote> 

Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
readily on tap.

I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
he needed to do was install some theme engines.

-- 
QOTD:
	"If he learns from his mistakes, pretty soon he'll know everything."
0
linonut (8350)
10/18/2008 3:47:25 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:08:46 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
> news:1651924.rMZ0WqjcMP@schestowitz.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>| So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking 
>> for
>>| commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are looking 
>> at
>>| extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably even more 
>> than
>>| the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to future versions, 
>> Ubuntu
>>| offers that. If you are looking for ease of use, Ubuntu offers that. If 
>> you
>>| are looking for robustness and security, Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can 
>> be
>>| installed on all types of hardware and even on older hardware. Mac OS 
>> does
>>| not offer this flexibility.
>>|
>>| The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>> OS.
>>| Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over
>>| Windows and not Ubuntu?
>> `----
>>
>> http://prosenjit23.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/switch-to-ubuntu-linux-not-apple-mac-os/
>>
> 
> From the comments:
> 
> <quote>
> Hugh Says:
> October 18, 2008 at 5:02 am
> 
> Nice way to end an article. Imply anyone who doesn't agree with you is 
> either a "snob" or "an idiot".
> 
> I am neither. I use Windows, Mac, OpenBSD, Linux and at work many customized 
> Linux and non Linux OSes that run on appliances. Like Juniper SA.
> 
> As others have said, a ready to go experience and marketing are some 
> barriers.
> 
> The other thing is, even as an IT professional, sometimes RPMs don't work, 
> and sometimes people offering software want you to compile source and you 
> don't have all the pre-reqs or dependencies. Sometimes I can get to that 
> work, sometimes not. How on earth are non IT literate users supposed to make 
> software work.
> 
> Or how about fiddling with XFree86.conf or Xorg to wrestle a graphics card 
> to work. Boring.
> 
> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises 
> this.
> 
> </quote>

Schestowitz seems to miss the high points of the articles every time.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 3:53:39 PM
"Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>  this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> <quote>
>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>> this.
>> </quote>
>
> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
> readily on tap.

True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
rather well.

<quote>
Bob Says:
October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am

"The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
Windows and not Ubuntu?"

1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
everything works as is often the case with my hardware.

2) Fonts. I have been using Linux best part of a decade now, the fonts have 
always looked rubbish and still do. Become more standardised but still 
rubbish in comparison to a mac or even Windows.

3) OSX Leopard GUI is just SOOOOOO much more nicer and productive to work 
in. Yes you will tell me how you can change anything you like in Gnome and 
(OSX copy cat) KDE4. If I go to a restaurant I expect the food to be ready 
on a plate, cooked to perfection and provide that gastronomical experience. 
I don't want to be redoing the seasoning to solve chefs inabilities or cook 
a meal myself.

4) Everything flows. Apple HCI guidelines really work., Everything is so 
well integrated. Linux is massively off here.

5) Applications. Mac has some great cant live without applications. Mac 
developers unlike Linux/Win seem to understand what makes a good interface. 
Applications like Coda, Transmit, Toast, iWork and the Omni group are just 
so good. Linux cant compete. Again you can accomplish the task but not as 
productively, or well presented on Linux.

I still use Linux but not for my desktop. Right now it belongs in a server 
or for some specialised tasks. As a platform for development Linux is great. 
But I wont be switching over to Linux/Ubuntu any time soon. It fails for 
what I want in my desk machine, yet I am well versed with how it works. It's 
not because I am a snob or stupid. But because Linux needs a massive 
overhaul for the consumer market, and Mark Shuttleworth (I think) gets it. 
See his comments on being more Apple like.
</quote>


> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
> he needed to do was install some theme engines.

Themes can be installed. I think the point is that OSX comes with a damn 
good theme "out of the box" which is a plus for the many people who don't 
want to tweak and configure their desktop. My Ubuntu desktop with Compiz is 
rather nice and it wasn't all that difficult to configure.

The larger point is #4 and to a lesser degree #5. I don't use a Mac but 
several people around me at work do. The consistency and integration between 
all applications and the OSX is first rate. I find that with Linux it isn't 
as consistent. Example - I typically use emacs for editing source code, 
scripts, etc. Use the clipboard on Emacs and I can copy text into it and 
paste it into other Emacs buffers. But often I can't paste the text into 
other Linux apps.


> -- 
> QOTD:
> "If he learns from his mistakes, pretty soon he'll know everything." 


0
zeke7545 (533)
10/18/2008 4:22:21 PM
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____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 15:47 : \____

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
> 
>> <quote>
>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>> this.
>> </quote>
> 
> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
> readily on tap.
> 
> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
> he needed to do was install some theme engines.

X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it to,
including OS X.

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      |    Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
http://Schestowitz.com  | Free as in Free Beer |  PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.86 0.91 0.95 5/242 6634
      http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/18/2008 4:24:15 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> <quote>
>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>> this.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>> readily on tap.
> 
> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
> rather well.
> 
> <quote>
> Bob Says:
> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
> 
> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
> 
> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.

Plug it in and turn it on.
It just works.
Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.

> 2) Fonts. I have been using Linux best part of a decade now, the fonts have 
> always looked rubbish and still do. Become more standardised but still 
> rubbish in comparison to a mac or even Windows.

But........the loons in COLA claim that this was fixed circa 1997 or so.
They've been denying that fonts are a problem for Linux
 for years in fact.

> 3) OSX Leopard GUI is just SOOOOOO much more nicer and productive to work 
> in. Yes you will tell me how you can change anything you like in Gnome and 
> (OSX copy cat) KDE4. If I go to a restaurant I expect the food to be ready 
> on a plate, cooked to perfection and provide that gastronomical experience. 
> I don't want to be redoing the seasoning to solve chefs inabilities or cook 
> a meal myself.

Good description.
 
> 4) Everything flows. Apple HCI guidelines really work., Everything is so 
> well integrated. Linux is massively off here.

Linux is a fragmented mess.
The applications look different, act different etc.
A total clusterfsck.
 
> 5) Applications. Mac has some great cant live without applications. Mac 
> developers unlike Linux/Win seem to understand what makes a good interface. 
> Applications like Coda, Transmit, Toast, iWork and the Omni group are just 
> so good. Linux cant compete. Again you can accomplish the task but not as 
> productively, or well presented on Linux.

With digital audio, the Apple versions of software like Nuendo, Protools
and so forth tend to run smoother and have a better more consistan UI.
They also tend to look a little nicer.

Compared to the Windows versions of course.

Linux need not apply here because it has nothing comparable.


> I still use Linux but not for my desktop. Right now it belongs in a server 
> or for some specialised tasks. As a platform for development Linux is great. 
> But I wont be switching over to Linux/Ubuntu any time soon. It fails for 
> what I want in my desk machine, yet I am well versed with how it works. It's 
> not because I am a snob or stupid. But because Linux needs a massive 
> overhaul for the consumer market, and Mark Shuttleworth (I think) gets it. 
> See his comments on being more Apple like.
> </quote>

Can't speak for servers, but Apple desktop is THE system to beat, overall.

Linux is a joke compared to Apple and OSX.

> 
>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
> 
> Themes can be installed. I think the point is that OSX comes with a damn 
> good theme "out of the box" which is a plus for the many people who don't 
> want to tweak and configure their desktop. My Ubuntu desktop with Compiz is 
> rather nice and it wasn't all that difficult to configure.

I found eye candy in Ubuntu to be a mess to configure.
Some people use envy some people use some other manager and then there is
all the outdated information (beryl for example) that just confuses things
even more.

A mess IMHO.



> The larger point is #4 and to a lesser degree #5. I don't use a Mac but 
> several people around me at work do. The consistency and integration between 
> all applications and the OSX is first rate. I find that with Linux it isn't 
> as consistent. Example - I typically use emacs for editing source code, 
> scripts, etc. Use the clipboard on Emacs and I can copy text into it and 
> paste it into other Emacs buffers. But often I can't paste the text into 
> other Linux apps.

Yet another borked feature of Linux that the COLA loons deny exists.
Sometimes you can use the middle button, and key combinations or menus and
sometimes you can't.


Linux has a long, long way to go before it reaches Apple in terms of
quality, ease of use, appeal and applications.

It's not even close.

But Linux is free and Apple is expensive.



-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 4:57:17 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:24:15 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 15:47 : \____
> 
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>> this.
>>> </quote>
>> 
>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>> readily on tap.
>> 
>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
> 
> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it to,
> including OS X.

It's like putting a bridal dress on a pig.
No matter how you look at it, the pig is still a pig.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 4:58:05 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>> this.
>>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>> readily on tap.
>> 
>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
>> rather well.
>> 
>> <quote>
>> Bob Says:
>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>> 
>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
>> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>> 
>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
>> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
>> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.
>
> Plug it in and turn it on.
> It just works.
> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.

The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in how
to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access to his
data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many. They don't
care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 5:19:30 PM
"Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
news:5853553.PRIMlCD6on@schestowitz.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 15:47 : \____
>
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> <quote>
>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>> this.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>> readily on tap.
>>
>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>
> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it 
> to,
> including OS X.

Just because someone adds a bunch of icons, fonts and colors that "look" 
like OSX will not magically convert Linux into OSX.  The main difference is 
that in OSX all of the applications and the OS fit and work together 
seemlessly. No matter what icons and window-borders you put on Linux... this 
isn't going to happen.






0
zeke7545 (533)
10/18/2008 5:21:11 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:24:15 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 15:47 : \____
>> 
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>> 
>>>> <quote>
>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>> this.
>>>> </quote>
>>> 
>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>> readily on tap.
>>> 
>>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>> 
>> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it to,
>> including OS X.


Most people would go "Eh?" at this point.

>
> It's like putting a bridal dress on a pig.
> No matter how you look at it, the pig is still a pig.

I disagree. I like Gnome. It does its job. KDE is a mess for fan boyz
who have nothing better to do than tinker.

-- 
"His asshole is so reamed out he has room for an oxygen 
tank, too."
                  -- Tattoo Vampire loooking for new accomodation in comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 5:22:06 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:22:06 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:24:15 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> 
>>> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 15:47 : \____
>>> 
>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>> 
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>>> this.
>>>>> </quote>
>>>> 
>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>>> readily on tap.
>>>> 
>>>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>>>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>>> 
>>> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it to,
>>> including OS X.
> 
> 
> Most people would go "Eh?" at this point.

Exactly.
 
>>
>> It's like putting a bridal dress on a pig.
>> No matter how you look at it, the pig is still a pig.
> 
> I disagree. I like Gnome. It does its job. KDE is a mess for fan boyz
> who have nothing better to do than tinker.

I was referring to the various schemes that make Linux look like OSX etc.
No matter what the look, the applications are still the same as is the
system admin etc.

IOW OSX/Apple is a cohesive, all works together computing experience and
Linux is a hodge podge of grafted on stuff.

I used to be a kde fan but I have moved to gnome.
I like eye candy, but only in terms of colors, fonts and layout.
I'm not big on rotating cubes etc.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 5:47:13 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:19:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
>>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>>> this.
>>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>>> readily on tap.
>>> 
>>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
>>> rather well.
>>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> Bob Says:
>>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>> 
>>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>>> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
>>> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>> 
>>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
>>> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
>>> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.
>>
>> Plug it in and turn it on.
>> It just works.
>> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.
> 
> The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
> important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
> CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
> problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
> technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
> have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
> tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in how
> to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access to his
> data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many. They don't
> care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.

My first expeience with a Mac, perosnally at home, was one of the original
iMacs that I purchased.
The instructions were literally 4 steps.
Unpack it.
Plug in the keyboard
Plug in the power cord and turn it on.

Done deal...

At that time I was on dialup but did have a home network.
When I got broadband the Apple discovered it and said something like "You
appear to have a high speed connection. Would you like to use it?"

Yea, that sounds like a good idea.
Bingo it worked.

Windows at the time?
It was a nightmare.
Don't even ask about Linux (SuSE I believe) at that time.
Another nightmare.

The COLA nuts love to make fun of MacHeads but the joke is really on the
Linux advocates because the idea for most people is to USE the applications
and not tinker with the OS.

Mac wrote the book and is they standard for that.
Linux is at the bottom of the pile.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 5:51:21 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:21:11 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
> news:5853553.PRIMlCD6on@schestowitz.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> ____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 15:47 : \____
>>
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>> this.
>>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>> readily on tap.
>>>
>>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>>
>> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it 
>> to,
>> including OS X.
> 
> Just because someone adds a bunch of icons, fonts and colors that "look" 
> like OSX will not magically convert Linux into OSX.  The main difference is 
> that in OSX all of the applications and the OS fit and work together 
> seemlessly. No matter what icons and window-borders you put on Linux... this 
> isn't going to happen.

Linux users seem to miss this point all the time.
-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 5:51:56 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:19:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
>>>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>
>>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>>>> readily on tap.
>>>> 
>>>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
>>>> rather well.
>>>> 
>>>> <quote>
>>>> Bob Says:
>>>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>>> 
>>>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>>>> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
>>>> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>>> 
>>>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
>>>> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
>>>> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.
>>>
>>> Plug it in and turn it on.
>>> It just works.
>>> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.
>> 
>> The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
>> important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
>> CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
>> problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
>> technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
>> have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
>> tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in how
>> to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access to his
>> data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many. They don't
>> care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.
>
> My first expeience with a Mac, perosnally at home, was one of the original
> iMacs that I purchased.
> The instructions were literally 4 steps.
> Unpack it.
> Plug in the keyboard
> Plug in the power cord and turn it on.
>
> Done deal...
>
> At that time I was on dialup but did have a home network.
> When I got broadband the Apple discovered it and said something like "You
> appear to have a high speed connection. Would you like to use it?"
>
> Yea, that sounds like a good idea.
> Bingo it worked.
>
> Windows at the time?
> It was a nightmare.
> Don't even ask about Linux (SuSE I believe) at that time.
> Another nightmare.
>
> The COLA nuts love to make fun of MacHeads but the joke is really on the
> Linux advocates because the idea for most people is to USE the applications
> and not tinker with the OS.
>
> Mac wrote the book and is they standard for that.
> Linux is at the bottom of the pile.

As far as networking goes, Debian now has WICD. Excellent. But in
typical half arsed fashion no one tested the network upgrade and lots of
wireless users ended up net less. it#s situations like that that make me
realise how few people actually use Debian/Ubuntu on wireless
laptops. Had there been more there would have been a far louder out cry
and someone would have fixed the package by now.

-- 
"Too bad they can't run your stupid ass out of here, flatfarb."
                  -- Tattoo Vampire <sitting@this.computer> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 5:55:13 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:55:13 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:19:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>>>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>>>>> readily on tap.
>>>>> 
>>>>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
>>>>> rather well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> Bob Says:
>>>>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>>>>> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
>>>>> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
>>>>> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
>>>>> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Plug it in and turn it on.
>>>> It just works.
>>>> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.
>>> 
>>> The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
>>> important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
>>> CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
>>> problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
>>> technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
>>> have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
>>> tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in how
>>> to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access to his
>>> data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many. They don't
>>> care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.
>>
>> My first expeience with a Mac, perosnally at home, was one of the original
>> iMacs that I purchased.
>> The instructions were literally 4 steps.
>> Unpack it.
>> Plug in the keyboard
>> Plug in the power cord and turn it on.
>>
>> Done deal...
>>
>> At that time I was on dialup but did have a home network.
>> When I got broadband the Apple discovered it and said something like "You
>> appear to have a high speed connection. Would you like to use it?"
>>
>> Yea, that sounds like a good idea.
>> Bingo it worked.
>>
>> Windows at the time?
>> It was a nightmare.
>> Don't even ask about Linux (SuSE I believe) at that time.
>> Another nightmare.
>>
>> The COLA nuts love to make fun of MacHeads but the joke is really on the
>> Linux advocates because the idea for most people is to USE the applications
>> and not tinker with the OS.
>>
>> Mac wrote the book and is they standard for that.
>> Linux is at the bottom of the pile.
> 
> As far as networking goes, Debian now has WICD. Excellent. But in
> typical half arsed fashion no one tested the network upgrade and lots of
> wireless users ended up net less. it#s situations like that that make me
> realise how few people actually use Debian/Ubuntu on wireless
> laptops. Had there been more there would have been a far louder out cry
> and someone would have fixed the package by now.

I sent a note to one of the Ubuntu developers asking why the
nvidia-settings program isn't automatically installed when the nvidia
driver is selected and installed.
Like Windows does.
Additionally, I asked why the program is allowed to be run as user when
root permission is required to actually save the settings to the xorg.conf.

The response I got back was "I don't understand what you are asking for
please explain further".

I'm debating if I am even going to reply because obviously this person is
so far out of touch with reality he can't see the forest for the trees.

I dunno, it seems rather simple to me.




-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 6:02:23 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:55:13 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:19:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>>>>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>>>>>> readily on tap.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
>>>>>> rather well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>> Bob Says:
>>>>>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>>>>>> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
>>>>>> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
>>>>>> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
>>>>>> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plug it in and turn it on.
>>>>> It just works.
>>>>> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.
>>>> 
>>>> The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
>>>> important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
>>>> CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
>>>> problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
>>>> technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
>>>> have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
>>>> tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in how
>>>> to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access to his
>>>> data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many. They don't
>>>> care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.
>>>
>>> My first expeience with a Mac, perosnally at home, was one of the original
>>> iMacs that I purchased.
>>> The instructions were literally 4 steps.
>>> Unpack it.
>>> Plug in the keyboard
>>> Plug in the power cord and turn it on.
>>>
>>> Done deal...
>>>
>>> At that time I was on dialup but did have a home network.
>>> When I got broadband the Apple discovered it and said something like "You
>>> appear to have a high speed connection. Would you like to use it?"
>>>
>>> Yea, that sounds like a good idea.
>>> Bingo it worked.
>>>
>>> Windows at the time?
>>> It was a nightmare.
>>> Don't even ask about Linux (SuSE I believe) at that time.
>>> Another nightmare.
>>>
>>> The COLA nuts love to make fun of MacHeads but the joke is really on the
>>> Linux advocates because the idea for most people is to USE the applications
>>> and not tinker with the OS.
>>>
>>> Mac wrote the book and is they standard for that.
>>> Linux is at the bottom of the pile.
>> 
>> As far as networking goes, Debian now has WICD. Excellent. But in
>> typical half arsed fashion no one tested the network upgrade and lots of
>> wireless users ended up net less. it#s situations like that that make me
>> realise how few people actually use Debian/Ubuntu on wireless
>> laptops. Had there been more there would have been a far louder out cry
>> and someone would have fixed the package by now.
>
> I sent a note to one of the Ubuntu developers asking why the
> nvidia-settings program isn't automatically installed when the nvidia
> driver is selected and installed.
> Like Windows does.
> Additionally, I asked why the program is allowed to be run as user when
> root permission is required to actually save the settings to the xorg.conf.
>
> The response I got back was "I don't understand what you are asking for
> please explain further".
>
> I'm debating if I am even going to reply because obviously this person is
> so far out of touch with reality he can't see the forest for the trees.
>
> I dunno, it seems rather simple to me.

I had similar with default options for another package. It was as if the
guy had never used it. I got the "because I do this for free and that's
the way it is" response so common from little big men given some
authority.

And here's another thing - why don't individual users have different
xorg.conf files? 

-- 
"Every piece of evidence I've heard from developers inside Microsoft
supports my theory that the company has become completely tangled up in..."
                  -- William Poaster <wp@leafnode.amd64.eu> boring people again in comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 7:32:49 PM
Hadron wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:55:13 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:19:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>>>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth
>>>>>>>>> realises this.
>>>>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users
>>>>>>>> have ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros
>>>>>>>> have readily on tap.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums
>>>>>>> it up rather well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>> Bob Says:
>>>>>>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of
>>>>>>> the Mac OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people
>>>>>>> consider a Mac over Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half
>>>>>>> dodgy drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a
>>>>>>> scenario where everything works as is often the case with my
>>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plug it in and turn it on.
>>>>>> It just works.
>>>>>> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
>>>>> important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
>>>>> CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
>>>>> problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
>>>>> technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
>>>>> have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
>>>>> tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in
>>>>> how to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access
>>>>> to his data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many.
>>>>> They don't care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.
>>>>
>>>> My first expeience with a Mac, perosnally at home, was one of the
>>>> original iMacs that I purchased.
>>>> The instructions were literally 4 steps.
>>>> Unpack it.
>>>> Plug in the keyboard
>>>> Plug in the power cord and turn it on.
>>>>
>>>> Done deal...
>>>>
>>>> At that time I was on dialup but did have a home network.
>>>> When I got broadband the Apple discovered it and said something like
>>>> "You appear to have a high speed connection. Would you like to use it?"
>>>>
>>>> Yea, that sounds like a good idea.
>>>> Bingo it worked.
>>>>
>>>> Windows at the time?
>>>> It was a nightmare.
>>>> Don't even ask about Linux (SuSE I believe) at that time.
>>>> Another nightmare.
>>>>
>>>> The COLA nuts love to make fun of MacHeads but the joke is really on
>>>> the Linux advocates because the idea for most people is to USE the
>>>> applications and not tinker with the OS.
>>>>
>>>> Mac wrote the book and is they standard for that.
>>>> Linux is at the bottom of the pile.
>>> 
>>> As far as networking goes, Debian now has WICD. Excellent. But in
>>> typical half arsed fashion no one tested the network upgrade and lots of
>>> wireless users ended up net less. it#s situations like that that make me
>>> realise how few people actually use Debian/Ubuntu on wireless
>>> laptops. Had there been more there would have been a far louder out cry
>>> and someone would have fixed the package by now.
>>
>> I sent a note to one of the Ubuntu developers asking why the
>> nvidia-settings program isn't automatically installed when the nvidia
>> driver is selected and installed.
>> Like Windows does.
>> Additionally, I asked why the program is allowed to be run as user when
>> root permission is required to actually save the settings to the
>> xorg.conf.
>>
>> The response I got back was "I don't understand what you are asking for
>> please explain further".
>>
>> I'm debating if I am even going to reply because obviously this person is
>> so far out of touch with reality he can't see the forest for the trees.
>>
>> I dunno, it seems rather simple to me.
> 
> I had similar with default options for another package. It was as if the
> guy had never used it. I got the "because I do this for free and that's
> the way it is" response so common from little big men given some
> authority.

He *has* authority. He has written that package. Nobody is pointing a gun to
your head to use it.
 
> And here's another thing - why don't individual users have different
> xorg.conf files?
> 

Are you *really* asking such a question, "kernel hacker" Hadron Quark?

xorg.conf describes the *hardware* of input devices and the display devices.
Those actually stay the same, regardless who uses them.

If you want to change resolution for the display (pointless if you have LCD)
you can do that, and each user can take his preferred one.

The keyboard and mouse settings *are* configurable per user outside of
xorg.conf, so what are you blubbering about, "true linux advocate", "kernel
hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile expert", "X specialist", "CUPS
guru", "USB-disk server admin", "defragger professional", "newsreader
magician", "hardware maven", "time coordinator", "email sage" and "OSS
culling committee chairman"  Hadron Quark, aka Hans Schneider, aka Richard,
aka Damian O'Leary?

Why do you have to prove over and over again that you really don't have a
clue about linux?
-- 
Only two things are infinite,
 the Universe and Stupidity.
And I'm not quite sure about the former.
        - Albert Einstein

0
10/18/2008 7:43:51 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> <quote>
>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>> this.
>>> </quote>
>>
>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>> readily on tap.
>
> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
> rather well.
>
> <quote>
> Bob Says:
> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>
> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>
> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.

Yeah, that would be nice, if you are content to stick with Apple
hardware and only Apple hardware.

> 2) Fonts. I have been using Linux best part of a decade now, the fonts have 
> always looked rubbish and still do. Become more standardised but still 
> rubbish in comparison to a mac or even Windows.

Patent nonsense.

> 3) OSX Leopard GUI is just SOOOOOO much more nicer and productive to work 
> in. Yes you will tell me how you can change anything you like in Gnome and 
> (OSX copy cat) KDE4. If I go to a restaurant I expect the food to be ready 
> on a plate, cooked to perfection and provide that gastronomical experience. 
> I don't want to be redoing the seasoning to solve chefs inabilities or cook 
> a meal myself.

Good for him.

> 4) Everything flows. Apple HCI guidelines really work., Everything is so 
> well integrated. Linux is massively off here.

Again, if you like the package, go for it.  I'd be more interested in
how much you /can/ tailor OSX, myself.

I didn't like being locked into one company's idea of a user interface
with Microsoft, and there's a good change I wouldn't like it with Apple,
either.

But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
I like the way I do things just fine.

> 5) Applications. Mac has some great cant live without applications. Mac 
> developers unlike Linux/Win seem to understand what makes a good interface. 
> Applications like Coda, Transmit, Toast, iWork and the Omni group are just 
> so good. Linux cant compete. Again you can accomplish the task but not as 
> productively, or well presented on Linux.

All in all, the guy's a fan of Macs.  Cool.

I don't care.  As I've noted before, the thing that will most push Linux
right now is advertising.  Not chasing someone else's idea of a desktop
look-and-feel.

>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>
> Themes can be installed. I think the point is that OSX comes with a damn 
> good theme "out of the box" which is a plus for the many people who don't 
> want to tweak and configure their desktop.

How difficult is it?  Select the Themes menu and pick one.

Who's going to pick a Mac solely because it has a nice default theme?

> My Ubuntu desktop with Compiz is 
> rather nice and it wasn't all that difficult to configure.
>
> The larger point is #4 and to a lesser degree #5. I don't use a Mac but 
> several people around me at work do. The consistency and integration between 
> all applications and the OSX is first rate. I find that with Linux it isn't 
> as consistent. Example - I typically use emacs for editing source code, 
> scripts, etc. Use the clipboard on Emacs and I can copy text into it and 
> paste it into other Emacs buffers. But often I can't paste the text into 
> other Linux apps.

Such as?

I'm having a hard time believing that one.  One can even cut-n-paste
between a Windows VM and Linux vi session.  X is what handles it.

-- 
Kaufman's Law:
	A policy is a restrictive document to prevent a recurrence
	of a single incident, in which that incident is never mentioned.
0
linonut (8350)
10/18/2008 7:51:34 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

>> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it 
>> to, including OS X.
>
> Just because someone adds a bunch of icons, fonts and colors that "look" 
> like OSX will not magically convert Linux into OSX.  The main difference is 
> that in OSX all of the applications and the OS fit and work together 
> seemlessly. No matter what icons and window-borders you put on Linux... this 
> isn't going to happen.

This is indeed true, and it is probably an issue for some people.

However, I have a very mixed desktop, running gnome, kde, fox-toolkit,
wxwidgets, console, and other kinds of apps on a fluxbox desktop with
help from KDE, Gnome, and XFce theming items.

Does it look as slick as a Mac, or even Win 2000/XP classic?  Not
really.  Does it do what I want?  And how!

-- 
I got the bill for my surgery.  Now I know what those doctors were
wearing masks for.
		-- James Boren
0
linonut (8350)
10/18/2008 7:55:02 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter K�hlmann belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> Hadron wrote:
>  
>> And here's another thing - why don't individual users have different
>> xorg.conf files?
>
> Are you *really* asking such a question, "kernel hacker" Hadron Quark?
>
> xorg.conf describes the *hardware* of input devices and the display devices.
> Those actually stay the same, regardless who uses them.
>
> If you want to change resolution for the display (pointless if you have LCD)
> you can do that, and each user can take his preferred one.
>
> The keyboard and mouse settings *are* configurable per user outside of
> xorg.conf, so what are you blubbering about... ?
>
> Why do you have to prove over and over again that you really don't have a
> clue about linux?

Hadron's an odd case.  He does use Linux to some degree, and he's fairly
normal, and sometimes helpful, in the debian group(s).

But he has some odd gaps in his knowledge; he's still seems a bit wet behind
the ears Linux-wise.  Not that that is bad in and of itself.  However,
that should warrant a bit of caution in making claims about
functionality.

And when you deliberately piss people off, you're not going to get much
solicitude.

-- 
You will always get the greatest recognition for the job you least like.
0
linonut (8350)
10/18/2008 8:02:08 PM
Chris Ahlstrom <linonut@bollsouth.nut> writes:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises
>>>> this.
>>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>>> readily on tap.
>>
>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums it up 
>> rather well.
>>
>> <quote>
>> Bob Says:
>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>
>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac 
>> OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac over 
>> Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>
>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half dodgy 
>> drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a scenario where 
>> everything works as is often the case with my hardware.
>
> Yeah, that would be nice, if you are content to stick with Apple
> hardware and only Apple hardware.

Many are. The HW does the job.

>
>> 2) Fonts. I have been using Linux best part of a decade now, the fonts have 
>> always looked rubbish and still do. Become more standardised but still 
>> rubbish in comparison to a mac or even Windows.
>
> Patent nonsense.

Not really. Some distros still have font problems. Google it up. 2 years
ago default Ubuntu looked like a dog IMO. Now my debian testing looks
great.

>
>> 3) OSX Leopard GUI is just SOOOOOO much more nicer and productive to work 
>> in. Yes you will tell me how you can change anything you like in Gnome and 
>> (OSX copy cat) KDE4. If I go to a restaurant I expect the food to be ready 
>> on a plate, cooked to perfection and provide that gastronomical experience. 
>> I don't want to be redoing the seasoning to solve chefs inabilities or cook 
>> a meal myself.
>
> Good for him.
>
>> 4) Everything flows. Apple HCI guidelines really work., Everything is so 
>> well integrated. Linux is massively off here.
>
> Again, if you like the package, go for it.  I'd be more interested in
> how much you /can/ tailor OSX, myself.

You are a hacker and a geek. Most people just want to do a job of work
and its important that a UI is consistent  across machines in the
corporation too.

> I didn't like being locked into one company's idea of a user interface
> with Microsoft, and there's a good change I wouldn't like it with Apple,
> either.

Thats the small minded view IMO: you would soon learn and appreciate a
well thought out UI IMO. FWIW, I agree with you because I like emacs for
example. Doesnt mean I think its good for everyone.

> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
> I like the way I do things just fine.

But the bigger picture is unequivocal. Consistency is best.
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 8:05:01 PM
Chris Ahlstrom <linonut@bollsouth.nut> writes:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it 
>>> to, including OS X.
>>
>> Just because someone adds a bunch of icons, fonts and colors that "look" 
>> like OSX will not magically convert Linux into OSX.  The main difference is 
>> that in OSX all of the applications and the OS fit and work together 
>> seemlessly. No matter what icons and window-borders you put on Linux... this 
>> isn't going to happen.
>
> This is indeed true, and it is probably an issue for some people.
>
> However, I have a very mixed desktop, running gnome, kde, fox-toolkit,
> wxwidgets, console, and other kinds of apps on a fluxbox desktop with
> help from KDE, Gnome, and XFce theming items.
>
> Does it look as slick as a Mac, or even Win 2000/XP classic?  Not
> really.  Does it do what I want?  And how!

Pretty poorly compared to an integrated consistent UI. You have
different dialogs for the same actions across applications. Different
hot keys. Etc. Sounds like a mess. You can deal with it - fine. But I
wonder if you ever really tried a properly designed and integrated UI?

-- 
"XP can't be selling well, or we'd have the wintrolls crowing about it all
over the advocacy newsgroups."
               comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 8:06:15 PM
Peter Köhlmann <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:55:13 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 19:19:30 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:22:21 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:DsnKk.53868$De7.43985@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>>>>>>>  this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>>>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth
>>>>>>>>>> realises this.
>>>>>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users
>>>>>>>>> have ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros
>>>>>>>>> have readily on tap.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> True. But I think that Bob's comment (item #3) on the same page sums
>>>>>>>> it up rather well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> <quote>
>>>>>>>> Bob Says:
>>>>>>>> October 18, 2008 at 6:13 am
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of
>>>>>>>> the Mac OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people
>>>>>>>> consider a Mac over Windows and not Ubuntu?"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1) Firstly with a mac everything just works. No trying to find half
>>>>>>>> dodgy drivers for your wifi card or graphics. I know you can have a
>>>>>>>> scenario where everything works as is often the case with my
>>>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plug it in and turn it on.
>>>>>>> It just works.
>>>>>>> Ubuntu does not, although it's getting better.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The problem with the COLA loonies is that they don't understand how
>>>>>> important this is. A good example was when I was contracting at
>>>>>> CERN. One of the *very* smart particle physicists there had some
>>>>>> problems with his PC. Network I think. Anyway down comes some cocky
>>>>>> technician and started to talk down to him and "explain" how he could
>>>>>> have done this and that and blah blah blah. The physicist burst into
>>>>>> tears and smacked his table repeatedly !!!! He wasn't interested in
>>>>>> how to install some half arsed driver etc etc - he just wanted access
>>>>>> to his data and simulation SW. "Just works" is important for many.
>>>>>> They don't care how or why. The PC is a tool not a job for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> My first expeience with a Mac, perosnally at home, was one of the
>>>>> original iMacs that I purchased.
>>>>> The instructions were literally 4 steps.
>>>>> Unpack it.
>>>>> Plug in the keyboard
>>>>> Plug in the power cord and turn it on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Done deal...
>>>>>
>>>>> At that time I was on dialup but did have a home network.
>>>>> When I got broadband the Apple discovered it and said something like
>>>>> "You appear to have a high speed connection. Would you like to use it?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Yea, that sounds like a good idea.
>>>>> Bingo it worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows at the time?
>>>>> It was a nightmare.
>>>>> Don't even ask about Linux (SuSE I believe) at that time.
>>>>> Another nightmare.
>>>>>
>>>>> The COLA nuts love to make fun of MacHeads but the joke is really on
>>>>> the Linux advocates because the idea for most people is to USE the
>>>>> applications and not tinker with the OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mac wrote the book and is they standard for that.
>>>>> Linux is at the bottom of the pile.
>>>> 
>>>> As far as networking goes, Debian now has WICD. Excellent. But in
>>>> typical half arsed fashion no one tested the network upgrade and lots of
>>>> wireless users ended up net less. it#s situations like that that make me
>>>> realise how few people actually use Debian/Ubuntu on wireless
>>>> laptops. Had there been more there would have been a far louder out cry
>>>> and someone would have fixed the package by now.
>>>
>>> I sent a note to one of the Ubuntu developers asking why the
>>> nvidia-settings program isn't automatically installed when the nvidia
>>> driver is selected and installed.
>>> Like Windows does.
>>> Additionally, I asked why the program is allowed to be run as user when
>>> root permission is required to actually save the settings to the
>>> xorg.conf.
>>>
>>> The response I got back was "I don't understand what you are asking for
>>> please explain further".
>>>
>>> I'm debating if I am even going to reply because obviously this person is
>>> so far out of touch with reality he can't see the forest for the trees.
>>>
>>> I dunno, it seems rather simple to me.
>> 
>> I had similar with default options for another package. It was as if the
>> guy had never used it. I got the "because I do this for free and that's
>> the way it is" response so common from little big men given some
>> authority.
>
> He *has* authority. He has written that package. Nobody is pointing a gun to
> your head to use it.

My point exactly. And what's so wrong. A jobs worth (maybe it was you?
You sound like the petty little Hitler type who would have it your way
and only your way).

And he had not written the package. He was maintaining it. And
regardless - had he written it he could and should listen to legitimate
feedback if he wishes to retain control. if he doesn't want to and he is
really interested in OSS he should release it to others to maintain and
improve.
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 8:08:35 PM
"Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> stated in post
x4rKk.48603$kh2.17532@bignews3.bellsouth.net on 10/18/08 12:51 PM:

....
>> 4) Everything flows. Apple HCI guidelines really work., Everything is so
>> well integrated. Linux is massively off here.
> 
> Again, if you like the package, go for it.  I'd be more interested in
> how much you /can/ tailor OSX, myself.
> 
> I didn't like being locked into one company's idea of a user interface
> with Microsoft, and there's a good change I wouldn't like it with Apple,
> either.
> 
> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
> I like the way I do things just fine.

You act as if I argued that you should change how you do thing.  I did no
such thing.  I *have* noted the benefit of a consistent and well designed
UI, and predicted that Linux would move in that direction (it has a long way
to go, after all).  My predictions, via Mark Shuttleworth and others, seem
to be coming true.  Heck, if Shuttleworth has his way the changes will come
even more quickly than I predicted.  I think that would be grand... no doubt
it would be a very large benefit to the Linux community.


-- 
.... something I'm committed to work on, focusing increasing amounts of
resources of Canonical on figuring out on how we actually move the desktop
experience forward to compete with Mac OS X.
- Mark Shuttleworth (founded Canonical Ltd. / Ubuntu Linux)

0
usenet2 (47889)
10/18/2008 8:10:21 PM
Ezekiel wrote:
> Just because someone adds a bunch of icons, fonts and colors that "look"
> like OSX will not magically convert Linux into OSX. The main difference
> is that in OSX all of the applications and the OS fit and work together
> seemlessly. No matter what icons and window-borders you put on Linux...
> this isn't going to happen.

Not true!

Only the application written for the Cocoa API will have the Mac OS X look &
feel, all others will *not*.

Many application that run on the Mac OS X where written for POSIX, Java,
wxWidgets, older Mac APIs, etc, and will *not* "work together seamlessly",
at least not as seamlessly as if they where all based on one API.

By the way, the above is true for GNU/Linux, GNU/*BSD, Windows and probably
every other OS with more than one GUI API.

Regards

p.s. Most of the applications I use in Mac OS X do not use the Cocoa API so
I don't usually have the "benefit" of a consistent GUI.

p.p.s I really really dislike Aqua's look & feel, all those animation get on
my nerves!

0
nomail6807 (1699)
10/18/2008 8:10:24 PM
Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
> 
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking
> | for commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are
> | looking at extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably
> | even more than the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to
> | future versions, Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for ease of use,
> | Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for robustness and security,
> | Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can be installed on all types of hardware and
> | even on older hardware. Mac OS does not offer this flexibility.
> | 
> | The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac
> | OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac
> | over Windows and not Ubuntu?


I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil retards
have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as good!

http://www.distrowatch.com
http://www.livecdlist.com



> `----
> 
> http://prosenjit23.wordpress.com/2008/10/17
switch-to-ubuntu-linux-not-apple-mac-os/


0
10/18/2008 8:54:27 PM
Hadron wrote:

> Pretty poorly compared to an integrated consistent UI. You have
> different dialogs for the same actions across applications. Different
> hot keys. Etc. Sounds like a mess. You can deal with it - fine. But I
> wonder if you ever really tried a properly designed and integrated UI?

Well, certainly not with Windows.  It's good some good points, but
consistency is only about 1/2-way there.

I've only tinkered briefly with a Mac, for like a minute.  Looked cool,
but I didn't like it a lot.  However, I'd need more time to try it.

I'm running XFce as an experiment right now.  It more easily gives
a cooler look than fluxbox, but I can't tinker with the gui in quite
the same way.  Can get pseudo transparency, can't easily change the
width of theme elements, can't toggle window decorations.

I'll keep XFce on one machine, and fluxbox on the other.  Time for a 
little change.

As far as apps and dialogs go, I've always run a mixed bag of apps.
Most of them act the same.  The biggest gotcha for me has been which
use Ctrl-Q, and which use Ctrl-W.



0
10/18/2008 8:58:25 PM
Snit wrote:
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> stated in post
> x4rKk.48603$kh2.17532@bignews3.bellsouth.net on 10/18/08 12:51 PM:
> 
> ...
>> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
>> I like the way I do things just fine.
> 
> You act as if I argued that you should change how you do thing.  I did no
> such thing.  I *have* noted the benefit of a consistent and well designed
> UI, and predicted that Linux would move in that direction (it has a long way
> to go, after all).  My predictions, via Mark Shuttleworth and others, seem
> to be coming true.  Heck, if Shuttleworth has his way the changes will come
> even more quickly than I predicted.  I think that would be grand... no doubt
> it would be a very large benefit to the Linux community.

Correction:  to the Ubuntu part of the Linux community.

And he'd better get cracking with the advertising.

[Can you tell I'm browsing from icedove and don't have filters on?]
0
10/18/2008 9:00:17 PM
Hadron wrote:

> Peter Köhlmann <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> writes:
> 

< snip >
 
>>> I had similar with default options for another package. It was as if the
>>> guy had never used it. I got the "because I do this for free and that's
>>> the way it is" response so common from little big men given some
>>> authority.
>>
>> He *has* authority. He has written that package. Nobody is pointing a gun
>> to your head to use it.
> 
> My point exactly. And what's so wrong. A jobs worth (maybe it was you?

I would certainly not heed any "input" from everyone. It should be well
thought, at the least

> You sound like the petty little Hitler type who would have it your way
> and only your way).

That would be you. It is you who likes choice only if it is *your* choice
 
> And he had not written the package. He was maintaining it. 

Irrelevant.

> And 
> regardless - had he written it he could and should listen to legitimate
> feedback if he wishes to retain control. 

Oh, control should be wrangled from him because he ignores *your* input?
On what grounds exactly, "OSS culling committee chairman" Hadron Quark?

> if he doesn't want to and he is 
> really interested in OSS he should release it to others to maintain and
> improve.

Thats not your decision.

And what happened to your utterly idiotic moans and whines about "user
xorg.conf"? Did you already find out now that it was just another one of
your brainfarts, "kernel hacker" Hadron Quark?

You silently just snipped it. Too embarrassing?
-- 
Warning: 10 days have passed since your last Windows reinstall.

0
10/18/2008 9:28:10 PM
"ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@bellsouth.net> stated in post
e6sKk.49994$rD2.49825@bignews4.bellsouth.net on 10/18/08 2:00 PM:

> Snit wrote:
>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> stated in post
>> x4rKk.48603$kh2.17532@bignews3.bellsouth.net on 10/18/08 12:51 PM:
>> 
>> ...
>>> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
>>> I like the way I do things just fine.
>> 
>> You act as if I argued that you should change how you do thing.  I did no
>> such thing.  I *have* noted the benefit of a consistent and well designed
>> UI, and predicted that Linux would move in that direction (it has a long way
>> to go, after all).  My predictions, via Mark Shuttleworth and others, seem
>> to be coming true.  Heck, if Shuttleworth has his way the changes will come
>> even more quickly than I predicted.  I think that would be grand... no doubt
>> it would be a very large benefit to the Linux community.
> 
> Correction:  to the Ubuntu part of the Linux community.
> 
> And he'd better get cracking with the advertising.
> 
> [Can you tell I'm browsing from icedove and don't have filters on?]

The work he is doing will effect far more than just Ubuntu... if he is
successful.


-- 
God made me an atheist - who are you to question his authority?



0
usenet2 (47889)
10/18/2008 9:40:28 PM
ahlstrom <ahlstromc@bellsouth.net> writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>
>> Pretty poorly compared to an integrated consistent UI. You have
>> different dialogs for the same actions across applications. Different
>> hot keys. Etc. Sounds like a mess. You can deal with it - fine. But I
>> wonder if you ever really tried a properly designed and integrated UI?
>
> Well, certainly not with Windows.  It's good some good points, but
> consistency is only about 1/2-way there.

Its far better than LInux - for one simple to understand reason. It
tends (not always because of the mess thats java) to use less widget
kits.

>
> I've only tinkered briefly with a Mac, for like a minute.  Looked cool,
> but I didn't like it a lot.  However, I'd need more time to try it.

of course.

>
> I'm running XFce as an experiment right now.  It more easily gives
> a cooler look than fluxbox, but I can't tinker with the gui in quite
> the same way.  Can get pseudo transparency, can't easily change the
> width of theme elements, can't toggle window decorations.

I played with some of that when beryl got stable enough. I soon got
bored. I even browse the web 90% using W3m in emacs now. Was even
considering removing X altogether.

>
> I'll keep XFce on one machine, and fluxbox on the other.  Time for a
> little change.
>
> As far as apps and dialogs go, I've always run a mixed bag of apps.
> Most of them act the same.  The biggest gotcha for me has been which
> use Ctrl-Q, and which use Ctrl-W.

I find theres not much choice in that. e.g KTorrent kicks the crap out
of any gnome equivalent. I wanted to keep a "clean" gnome install but
simply can not. Too many apps are rubbish on one and good on the
other. I find it a waste of time and energy that so many apps are
duplicated (with associated re-invent bugs and inconsistencies) for KDE
and Gnome. Still, in COLA they call it choice. I call it fragmentation
and waster effort to push Linux Desktop to the masses.


-- 
- "Just think, consumers are not sold on XP, and Microsoft shelled out
some  major $$$ to develop this thing. This is a great opportunity for
alternative operating systems to intercept the ball, and run it back for a
touchdown.": comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/18/2008 9:47:31 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:02:08 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter K�hlmann belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
> 
>> Hadron wrote:
>>  
>>> And here's another thing - why don't individual users have different
>>> xorg.conf files?
>>
>> Are you *really* asking such a question, "kernel hacker" Hadron Quark?
>>
>> xorg.conf describes the *hardware* of input devices and the display devices.
>> Those actually stay the same, regardless who uses them.
>>
>> If you want to change resolution for the display (pointless if you have LCD)
>> you can do that, and each user can take his preferred one.
>>
>> The keyboard and mouse settings *are* configurable per user outside of
>> xorg.conf, so what are you blubbering about... ?
>>
>> Why do you have to prove over and over again that you really don't have a
>> clue about linux?
> 
> Hadron's an odd case.  He does use Linux to some degree, and he's fairly
> normal, and sometimes helpful, in the debian group(s).
> 
> But he has some odd gaps in his knowledge; he's still seems a bit wet behind
> the ears Linux-wise.  Not that that is bad in and of itself.  However,
> that should warrant a bit of caution in making claims about
> functionality.

Not to Quack, the troll likes to stick both feet in his mouth.

> And when you deliberately piss people off, you're not going to get much
> solicitude.

A few in that Debian group already know him from aolu.

-- 
Did you know?
Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences. 
He thought he was God, but she didn't.

0
wp5487 (399)
10/18/2008 10:10:29 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:47:25 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
> 
>> <quote> 
>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises 
>> this.
>> </quote> 
> 
> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
> readily on tap.
> 
> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
> he needed to do was install some theme engines.

Well he's just a stupid windroid, & M$ fanboi.

There's nothing to stop you playing with the GNOME desktop to make it look
how you want, unlike OSX & to an even lesser degree Vista. 
You can install AWN (Avant Windows Navigator) instead of the default
GNOME panel(s), for one thing. With it, you can use quite a few effects &
add all kinds of applets.
 https://launchpad.net/awn
Also using gconf-editor, you can change almost anything.

-- 
Did you know?
Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences. 
He thought he was God, but she didn't.

0
wp5487 (399)
10/18/2008 10:26:33 PM
"Peter K�hlmann" <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> stated in post
48fa54ea$0$17395$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net on 10/18/08 2:28 PM:

>> You sound like the petty little Hitler type who would have it your way
>> and only your way).
> 
> That would be you. It is you who likes choice only if it is *your* choice

You, repeatedly, have argued against my view of wanting *more* and higher
level choices for Linux.  Do you now support my ideas of having such added
choice for Linux users?


-- 
"Uh... ask me after we ship the next version of Windows [laughs] then I'll
be more open to give you a blunt answer." - Bill Gates
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/gates/>

0
usenet2 (47889)
10/18/2008 10:33:27 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:26:33 +0100, William Poaster wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:47:25 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>> 
>>> <quote> 
>>> OSX also looks way snazzier than Ubuntu. Even Mark Shuttleworth realises 
>>> this.
>>> </quote> 
>> 
>> Beauty is just a theme engine away.  Relatively few Windows users have
>> ever gone on the trek needed to obtain what GNU/Linux distros have
>> readily on tap.
>> 
>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
> 
> Well he's just a stupid windroid, & M$ fanboi.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you playing with the GNOME desktop to make it look
> how you want, unlike OSX & to an even lesser degree Vista. 
> You can install AWN (Avant Windows Navigator) instead of the default
> GNOME panel(s), for one thing. With it, you can use quite a few effects &
> add all kinds of applets.
>  https://launchpad.net/awn
> Also using gconf-editor, you can change almost anything.

It's a nightmare to get that stuff running and then even if you do, you are
still stuck with the same Linux applications.

You Linux boobs will never understand why OSX is a great system and why the
Mac's market share is increasing while the Linux desktop market share is
stagnant, despite Linux being free.

I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler or
editor.
Fix the ones that are out there already instead of inventing new ones.

Same goes for sound.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 10:43:51 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ 7 on Saturday 18 October 2008 20:54 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
>> 
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking
>> | for commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are
>> | looking at extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably
>> | even more than the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to
>> | future versions, Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for ease of use,
>> | Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for robustness and security,
>> | Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can be installed on all types of hardware and
>> | even on older hardware. Mac OS does not offer this flexibility.
>> | 
>> | The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac
>> | OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac
>> | over Windows and not Ubuntu?
> 
> 
> I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
> Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil retards
> have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as good!
> 
> http://www.distrowatch.com
> http://www.livecdlist.com

Compiz is a big headache to Microsoft. It makes Windows look like the fugliest
O/S, which it is.

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      |    Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
http://Schestowitz.com  | Free as in Free Beer |  PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.86 0.91 0.95 5/242 6634
      http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/18/2008 11:00:32 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Chris Ahlstrom on Saturday 18 October 2008 19:55 : \____

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
> 
>>> X+Composite enable 'Linux' to look and behave like anything you want it
>>> to, including OS X.
>>
>> Just because someone adds a bunch of icons, fonts and colors that "look"
>> like OSX will not magically convert Linux into OSX.  The main difference is
>> that in OSX all of the applications and the OS fit and work together
>> seemlessly. No matter what icons and window-borders you put on Linux... this
>> isn't going to happen.
> 
> This is indeed true, and it is probably an issue for some people.
> 
> However, I have a very mixed desktop, running gnome, kde, fox-toolkit,
> wxwidgets, console, and other kinds of apps on a fluxbox desktop with
> help from KDE, Gnome, and XFce theming items.
> 
> Does it look as slick as a Mac, or even Win 2000/XP classic?  Not
> really.  Does it do what I want?  And how!

I must be doing something wrong. My KDE desktop is very nicely integrated
overall. Drag-and-drop interfaces are a joy!

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      |    Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
http://Schestowitz.com  | Free as in Free Beer |  PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.86 0.91 0.95 5/242 6634
      http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/18/2008 11:01:59 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:00:32 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ____/ 7 on Saturday 18 October 2008 20:54 : \____
> 
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> 
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> 
>>> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
>>> 
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking
>>> | for commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are
>>> | looking at extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably
>>> | even more than the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to
>>> | future versions, Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for ease of use,
>>> | Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for robustness and security,
>>> | Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can be installed on all types of hardware and
>>> | even on older hardware. Mac OS does not offer this flexibility.
>>> | 
>>> | The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac
>>> | OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac
>>> | over Windows and not Ubuntu?
>> 
>> 
>> I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
>> Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil retards
>> have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as good!
>> 
>> http://www.distrowatch.com
>> http://www.livecdlist.com
> 
> Compiz is a big headache to Microsoft. It makes Windows look like the fugliest
> O/S, which it is.

Until the person actually runs compiz and finds all the bugs.
Like not playing nice with wine for one.
Instability for another.
A PITA to set up, at least with Ubuntu.
Mandriva was better at it I will say.

If you want eye candy that works, buy a Mac.

If you want to tinker with stuff, use Linux.

In the end, with Linux you are still stuck with the Linux applications and
that's the primary reason why Linux is free, Mac and Windows are not and
Linux is still stagnant on the desktop.

Is Linux improving?
Yes.
Is it useable?
Very much so IMHO.

Still the fact remains that people ignore it.



-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 11:34:25 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:01:59 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:


> I must be doing something wrong. My KDE desktop is very nicely integrated
> overall. Drag-and-drop interfaces are a joy!

Yes they are.
It's such a shame it's taken Linux so long to reach that stage.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/18/2008 11:35:51 PM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:51:34 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom scribbled down:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
> 
(Snippage)

> 
>> 4) Everything flows. Apple HCI guidelines really work., Everything is so 
>> well integrated. Linux is massively off here.
> 
> Again, if you like the package, go for it.  I'd be more interested in
> how much you /can/ tailor OSX, myself.

(* another post of yours)
*> However, I have a very mixed desktop, running gnome, kde, fox-toolkit,
*> wxwidgets, console, and other kinds of apps on a fluxbox desktop with
*> help from KDE, Gnome, and XFce theming items.
*> 


Here's the difference in how our brains are wired. I like
software/computer industry as much as anyone. But I couldn't see myself
spending loads of time to "customize" my desktop. To me the desktop is
just a place to run apps. I spend /my/ time editing, compiling, adding on
to a intranet site I wrote for myself and stuff like that. That's the sort
of stuff that interests /me./ 

For me as long as a desktop isn't disruptive or repulsively ugly then I
don't really care. To me the whole notion of a rotating 3D cube with fish
swimming around in it is almost a joke. I'm way too old school for that.


*> Does it look as slick as a Mac, or even Win 2000/XP classic?  Not
*> really.  Does it do what I want?  And how!

So what is it exactly that /you/ do with your desktop that's so demanding?
Seriously... because I'm definitely not understanding this whole thing
where people are spending some measurable amount of time customizing and
tweaking their desktop. What's the benefit at the end? (Other than it
looks nice.)

 
> I didn't like being locked into one company's idea of a user interface
> with Microsoft, and there's a good change I wouldn't like it with Apple,
> either.

<shakes-head> That aspect of it isn't something that I worry or even
think about. I need a desktop to launch apps and for somewhere for the
apps to run. Yeah... there's file managers and stuff like that but I'm
talking about the "desktop" here.

 
> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
> I like the way I do things just fine.

I'm not going to argue of what desktop is better/best. I'm just curious
what's all this customizing/tweaking that people are doing to their
desktop. 

 
>> 5) Applications. Mac has some great cant live without applications. Mac
>> developers unlike Linux/Win seem to understand what makes a good
>> interface. Applications like Coda, Transmit, Toast, iWork and the Omni
>> group are just so good. Linux cant compete. Again you can accomplish
>> the task but not as productively, or well presented on Linux.
> 
> All in all, the guy's a fan of Macs.  Cool.

It's not that. For example gdesklets has this thing that "looks" like the
3D dock in OSX 10.5.0 (Leopard). But if you've ever used the two the OSX
one is simply better. It's "okay" and kinda works but OSX simply did it
right. 



> I don't care.  As I've noted before, the thing that will most push Linux
> right now is advertising.  Not chasing someone else's idea of a desktop
> look-and-feel.

Advertising would do more than anything else. Redhat/IBM/HP/etc advertise
Linux but they target IT types. Not general consumers. I really can't
think of any substantial advertising of *consumer* Linux. (A mention in a
Toy'R Us sales flyer isn't what I'm talking about here.)


>>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>>
>> Themes can be installed. I think the point is that OSX comes with a
>> damn good theme "out of the box" which is a plus for the many people
>> who don't want to tweak and configure their desktop.
> 
> How difficult is it?  Select the Themes menu and pick one.
> 
> Who's going to pick a Mac solely because it has a nice default theme?

I'd say that hardly anyone picks a computer "solely" because of any one
feature. It's the whole package that people want... especially with Macs.

And with this theme thing... Linux *can* be tweaked with gDesklets and
stuff like that. But you need to know this even exists, download it,
install it and then configure it. OSX... you plug the computer in and it's
all there and ready to go. Most people do like *convenience* and it's 10x
more important if you're talking about 'consumers' who fear computers and
would have no idea how to download and install something from a repository.


 
>> My Ubuntu desktop with Compiz is
>> rather nice and it wasn't all that difficult to configure.
>>
>> The larger point is #4 and to a lesser degree #5. I don't use a Mac but
>> several people around me at work do. The consistency and integration
>> between all applications and the OSX is first rate. I find that with
>> Linux it isn't as consistent. Example - I typically use emacs for
>> editing source code, scripts, etc. Use the clipboard on Emacs and I can
>> copy text into it and paste it into other Emacs buffers. But often I
>> can't paste the text into other Linux apps.
> 
> Such as?
> 
> I'm having a hard time believing that one.  One can even cut-n-paste
> between a Windows VM and Linux vi session.  X is what handles it.

I do this with VM's, my desktop and remote X-sessions on
Solaris/AIX/whatever machines 5-days a week. And in most cases it does
work. But I was doing something the other day at work and I couldn't copy
text out of some app. Annoying as hell.


0
somewhere (45)
10/19/2008 12:19:05 AM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:00:32 +0000, Roy Schestowitz scribbled down:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ____/ 7 on Saturday 18 October 2008 20:54 : \____
> 
>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> 
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> 
>>> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
>>> 
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are looking
>>> | for commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If you are
>>> | looking at extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers that, probably
>>> | even more than the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy upgrades to
>>> | future versions, Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for ease of use,
>>> | Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for robustness and security,
>>> | Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can be installed on all types of hardware and
>>> | even on older hardware. Mac OS does not offer this flexibility.
>>> | 
>>> | The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the Mac
>>> | OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a Mac
>>> | over Windows and not Ubuntu?
>> 
>> 
>> I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
>> Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil retards
>> have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as good!
>> 
>> http://www.distrowatch.com
>> http://www.livecdlist.com
> 
> Compiz is a big headache to Microsoft. It makes Windows look like the fugliest
> O/S, which it is.


So you really are too stupid to discuss anything intelligently. 

Oh yeah...I almost forgot. You're the screwball who spends 18 hrs/day posting
non-stop drivel to usenet of how Microsoft is scared of everything on the
planet as they collapse into ruin. Meanwhile in the real world Microsoft
continues to make more money in 30 seconds than you'll earn in your entire
life.


(And no, I don't worship money. It's just laughable that anyone would be
stupid enough to claim that a company that makes over a billion a month in
profit is somehow collapsing and scared of a "Compiz window manager.")



0
somewhere (45)
10/19/2008 12:25:04 AM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:19:05 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:


> Here's the difference in how our brains are wired. I like
> software/computer industry as much as anyone. But I couldn't see myself
> spending loads of time to "customize" my desktop. To me the desktop is
> just a place to run apps. I spend /my/ time editing, compiling, adding on
> to a intranet site I wrote for myself and stuff like that. That's the sort
> of stuff that interests /me./ 

Same for me, only digital audio stuff.


> For me as long as a desktop isn't disruptive or repulsively ugly then I
> don't really care. To me the whole notion of a rotating 3D cube with fish
> swimming around in it is almost a joke. I'm way too old school for that.

Exactly.
nice as a proof of concept, but almost totally useless for productivity.

Give me a nice background, good color combinations, clear crisp fonts and
virtual desktop's and I am happy.
That's all I need.

 
> 
> *> Does it look as slick as a Mac, or even Win 2000/XP classic?  Not
> *> really.  Does it do what I want?  And how!
> 
> So what is it exactly that /you/ do with your desktop that's so demanding?
> Seriously... because I'm definitely not understanding this whole thing
> where people are spending some measurable amount of time customizing and
> tweaking their desktop. What's the benefit at the end? (Other than it
> looks nice.)

What else do they have to do?
Compile kernels?

Seriously the Linux users are morbidly hung up on customizing things.
They call it choice.
I call it a waste of time.


>  
>> I didn't like being locked into one company's idea of a user interface
>> with Microsoft, and there's a good change I wouldn't like it with Apple,
>> either.
> 
> <shakes-head> That aspect of it isn't something that I worry or even
> think about. I need a desktop to launch apps and for somewhere for the
> apps to run. Yeah... there's file managers and stuff like that but I'm
> talking about the "desktop" here.

So exactly what does Gnome, kde,windowmaker,fluxbox etc do that is
exclusive to each of them?
Each of those systems can be made to act just like the others given some
time and tweaking.
You can run gnome apps under kde and kde apps under gnome.
You can have docking panels like Windowmaker in either of them.
etc.....
>  
>> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
>> I like the way I do things just fine.
> 
> I'm not going to argue of what desktop is better/best. I'm just curious
> what's all this customizing/tweaking that people are doing to their
> desktop. 

What they are doing is wasting time.


 
>  
>>> 5) Applications. Mac has some great cant live without applications. Mac
>>> developers unlike Linux/Win seem to understand what makes a good
>>> interface. Applications like Coda, Transmit, Toast, iWork and the Omni
>>> group are just so good. Linux cant compete. Again you can accomplish
>>> the task but not as productively, or well presented on Linux.
>> 
>> All in all, the guy's a fan of Macs.  Cool.
> 
> It's not that. For example gdesklets has this thing that "looks" like the
> 3D dock in OSX 10.5.0 (Leopard). But if you've ever used the two the OSX
> one is simply better. It's "okay" and kinda works but OSX simply did it
> right. 

Exactly!
The system is integrated, works out of the box and yet is highly
custimizeable.
Maybe not as much as Linux, but who cares?

Do you know why most people's Macs are still mostly stock?
Because stock WORKS and because Apple did their UI homework and released a
system that appeals to the majority of people.
 
> 
>> I don't care.  As I've noted before, the thing that will most push Linux
>> right now is advertising.  Not chasing someone else's idea of a desktop
>> look-and-feel.
> 
> Advertising would do more than anything else. Redhat/IBM/HP/etc advertise
> Linux but they target IT types. Not general consumers. I really can't
> think of any substantial advertising of *consumer* Linux. (A mention in a
> Toy'R Us sales flyer isn't what I'm talking about here.)

If the netbooks loaded with Linux catch on that will be a good way of
introducing Linux to the public at large.
Unfortunately many of these are also available with Windows and that is
what most people are going to buy.

 
> 
>>>> I remember DFS jeering at the theming in Linux, not realizing that all
>>>> he needed to do was install some theme engines.
>>>
>>> Themes can be installed. I think the point is that OSX comes with a
>>> damn good theme "out of the box" which is a plus for the many people
>>> who don't want to tweak and configure their desktop.
>> 
>> How difficult is it?  Select the Themes menu and pick one.
>> 
>> Who's going to pick a Mac solely because it has a nice default theme?
> 
> I'd say that hardly anyone picks a computer "solely" because of any one
> feature. It's the whole package that people want... especially with Macs.

Mac people are highly applications based.
They buy a Mac because they need to run xxxyyyyzzz.
Not the other way around.
 
> And with this theme thing... Linux *can* be tweaked with gDesklets and
> stuff like that. But you need to know this even exists, download it,
> install it and then configure it. OSX... you plug the computer in and it's
> all there and ready to go. Most people do like *convenience* and it's 10x
> more important if you're talking about 'consumers' who fear computers and
> would have no idea how to download and install something from a repository.

It's a total mess.
Just look in the Ubuntu fora and see how many times the "How do I get that
cube thingie" question gets asked per week.
It's NOT easy, unless you know the secrets.



snip---------

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/19/2008 12:25:09 AM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:25:04 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:00:32 +0000, Roy Schestowitz scribbled down:

>> Compiz is a big headache to Microsoft. It makes Windows look like the fugliest
>> O/S, which it is.
> 
> 
> So you really are too stupid to discuss anything intelligently. 
> 
> Oh yeah...I almost forgot. You're the screwball who spends 18 hrs/day posting
> non-stop drivel to usenet of how Microsoft is scared of everything on the
> planet as they collapse into ruin. Meanwhile in the real world Microsoft
> continues to make more money in 30 seconds than you'll earn in your entire
> life.

If you really want to see what a complete loon Schestowitz, [Homer] and a
few other Linux *advocates* are, take a look at the boycott novell ICQ logs
which are posted in various places.

These people are truly sickos.
 
> 
> (And no, I don't worship money. It's just laughable that anyone would be
> stupid enough to claim that a company that makes over a billion a month in
> profit is somehow collapsing and scared of a "Compiz window manager.")

Wait until Schestowitz, who now works in research, discovers something.
He will be the first person to hire a lawyer to protect his rights.
You wait and see because it WILL happen.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/19/2008 12:39:12 AM
In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
 "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler 
> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of 
> inventing new ones.
> 
> Same goes for sound.

The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:

   <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>


-- 
--Tim Smith
0
reply_in_group (13194)
10/19/2008 1:09:07 AM
In article <72sKk.73702$E41.21843@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
 7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
> I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
> Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil retards
> have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as good!

Most people aren't as easily impressed as you.  OS X had a compositing 
window manager in in 2001, and one that was able to use accelerated 
graphics hardware for compositing in 2002.  Microsoft demonstrated one 
in 2003, which even used some of the same visual effects that Compiz 
used when Compiz arrived at the party, two years after Microsoft and 
four years after Apple.

The best you can say about Compiz in regard to OS X and Windows is that 
Compiz happened to include flashier effects for some things, such as 
transitions among desktops.

And when you look beyond the window manager, it's no contest.  Core 
Image, Core Video, and Core Animation are far beyond what you have in 
Linux graphics and video systems.  (Core Audio, too, but the bar is so 
low there that someone accidently stepping on the tail of a cat would 
win that one...).

-- 
--Tim Smith
0
reply_in_group (13194)
10/19/2008 1:35:05 AM
"Ezekiel" <somewhere@nowhere.com> stated in post
pan.2008.10.19.00.19.03.352799@nowhere.com on 10/18/08 5:19 PM:

>> But I've had this argument with Snit, so no need to rehash.  Simply put,
>> I like the way I do things just fine.
> 
> I'm not going to argue of what desktop is better/best. I'm just curious
> what's all this customizing/tweaking that people are doing to their
> desktop. 

I do a fair amount to customize my work environment... I use tools such as
Typinator, DockStar and iClip to add functionality I prefer.  I also have
some pretty specific ways I like my OS preferences set.

Some people, though, tweak for the sake of tweaking - to them it is an
interesting hobby.  To each their own.  I still would like to see what
"argument" he thinks he had with me, though.


-- 
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
--Albert Einstein

0
usenet2 (47889)
10/19/2008 4:51:52 AM
On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:09:07 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler 
>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of 
>> inventing new ones.
>> 
>> Same goes for sound.
> 
> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
> 
>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>

Good find Tim!

Seriously, sound and Linux is a clusterfuck.
It really is.

Look at Apple and Windows.

Sound just works....

The worst a person, professionals, have to do (Windows) is choose WDM or
ASIO.
99 percent choose ASIO because it works better.

Normal users don't even get involved with this....

Linux?

Sound is a joke....
It's a total mess.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/19/2008 5:25:20 AM
Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:00:32 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> ____/ 7 on Saturday 18 October 2008 20:54 : \____
>> 
>>> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>> 
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>> 
>>>> Switch to Ubuntu Linux not Apple Mac OS
>>>> 
>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>> | So why are people not going over to Ubuntu? Beats me. If you are
>>>> | looking for commercial technical support, Ubuntu does offer that. If
>>>> | you are looking at extreme personalization options Ubuntu offers
>>>> | that, probably even more than the Mac OS. If you are looking for easy
>>>> | upgrades to future versions, Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking
>>>> | for ease of use, Ubuntu offers that. If you are looking for
>>>> | robustness and security, Ubuntu is the best. Ubuntu can be installed
>>>> | on all types of hardware and even on older hardware. Mac OS does not
>>>> | offer this flexibility.
>>>> | 
>>>> | The more I use Ubuntu, the more I fail to understand the lure of the
>>>> | Mac OS. Is it the snob value or stupidity that make people consider a
>>>> | Mac over Windows and not Ubuntu?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
>>> Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil
>>> retards have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as
>>> good!
>>> 
>>> http://www.distrowatch.com
>>> http://www.livecdlist.com
>> 
>> Compiz is a big headache to Microsoft. It makes Windows look like the
>> fugliest O/S, which it is.
> 
> Until the person actually runs compiz and finds all the bugs.


As opposed to 'finding features' in the windummy OSen like BSOD?

Linux compiz working 100% and flawless from day one.
The only thing you need to do is set it up properly
and since I adore it so much, I really like doing it well.

Compiz with 16 semitransparent virtual screens in a 'cube' is 
something I can't let go of - and because work is 100% (as opposed to work
being defined as managing your daily BSODs on your WINDUMMY PC), I have
several virtual machines running at the same time doing things and when
speed is everything, even things like directory access lag with tens of
thousands of files is some directories hogging the CPU for 2 or 3 seconds
is an issue - so I bought an SSD which cuts that by about 25% to 50%.

With the Pickit2 programmer from microchip being operated under Linux and
Linux PIC compilers available, I am the point where dumping
the windummy PC altogether is a commercial option and leaving
it asside to support legacy stuff is the only reason for having it around.

0
10/19/2008 11:06:20 AM
On 2008-10-19, Ezekiel <somewhere@nowhere.com> wrote:

You've managed to jump out of the bozobin again. Oh well, let's just pop
you right back in there again.

<PLONK>

-- 
Regards,

Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power
0
ZekeGregory (6440)
10/19/2008 12:00:28 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler 
>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of 
>> inventing new ones.
>> 
>> Same goes for sound.
>
> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>
>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>

Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.

"Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
sound support.

And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)

-- 
A star captain's most solemn oath is that he will give his life, even
his entire crew, rather than violate the Prime Directive.
		-- Kirk, "The Omega Glory", stardate unknown
0
linonut (8350)
10/19/2008 1:40:10 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> I must be doing something wrong. My KDE desktop is very nicely integrated
> overall. Drag-and-drop interfaces are a joy!

I much prefer pipes.

How else can I find 22 related e-mails in my .maildir, count them, and
copy them to a holding directory, in one line of code?

-- 
Surprise!  You are the lucky winner of random I.R.S. Audit!  Just type
in your name and social security number.  Please remember that leaving
the room is punishable under law.
0
linonut (8350)
10/19/2008 1:43:49 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:51:34 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom scribbled down:
>
> *> Does it look as slick as a Mac, or even Win 2000/XP classic?  Not
> *> really.  Does it do what I want?  And how!
>
> So what is it exactly that /you/ do with your desktop that's so demanding?
> Seriously... because I'm definitely not understanding this whole thing
> where people are spending some measurable amount of time customizing and
> tweaking their desktop. What's the benefit at the end? (Other than it
> looks nice.)

You're confusing customizing the desktop with using it.  Whereas, in the
part above that I snipped, you were properly separating them.

With fluxbox, I have a lot keystrokes set up to do things such as mute
the audio, start and stop the media player, bring up terminals or a
calculator, move and resize windows.

I actually miss it now that I'm XFce on this machine.  Sure would be
nice to have a way to transfer keystroke settings amongst the various
WM's.

But that's just for navigating on the desktop.  For actually usage, I
pretty much prefer just having a few open consoles, with some helpful
environment variables to get to where I commonly go (e.g. $dev).

>> I didn't like being locked into one company's idea of a user interface
>> with Microsoft, and there's a good change I wouldn't like it with Apple,
>> either.
>
> <shakes-head> That aspect of it isn't something that I worry or even
> think about. I need a desktop to launch apps and for somewhere for the
> apps to run. Yeah... there's file managers and stuff like that but I'm
> talking about the "desktop" here.

Well, take Vista, for example.  Actually, you can go back to XP, where
Microsoft started open these humongous, bloated, difficult to navigate,
and /different/ Start menus.  I /hate/ them.  That's the first thing I
turn off.

> I'm not going to argue of what desktop is better/best. I'm just curious
> what's all this customizing/tweaking that people are doing to their
> desktop. 

I'm a compulsive tweaker.  I hate seeing the same backgrounds and window
decorations every day.  Boooooring.  Also, I kind of like windows with
zero-width borders.  These fat XFce borders are ugly!  Bevelling is
/such/ a waste of space.

> Advertising would do more than anything else. Redhat/IBM/HP/etc advertise
> Linux but they target IT types. Not general consumers. I really can't
> think of any substantial advertising of *consumer* Linux. (A mention in a
> Toy'R Us sales flyer isn't what I'm talking about here.)

Yeah.  We need the DELL dude, smoking a joint, telling us about how cool
"Linux" is.

> I'd say that hardly anyone picks a computer "solely" because of any one
> feature. It's the whole package that people want... especially with Macs.
>
> And with this theme thing... Linux *can* be tweaked with gDesklets and
> stuff like that. But you need to know this even exists, download it,
> install it and then configure it. OSX... you plug the computer in and it's
> all there and ready to go. Most people do like *convenience* and it's 10x
> more important if you're talking about 'consumers' who fear computers and
> would have no idea how to download and install something from a repository.

Indeed.  But what if you decide you don't really like it?  Take the
machine back?  Load a new desktop?

> I do this with VM's, my desktop and remote X-sessions on
> Solaris/AIX/whatever machines 5-days a week. And in most cases it does
> work. But I was doing something the other day at work and I couldn't copy
> text out of some app. Annoying as hell.

I hate that.  Especially when there's some interesting text in a GUI
text label on a Windows app, and you can't even select the text.  Or
list-boxes where you can't highlight some of the entries and copy their
text.

-- 
Man belongs wherever he wants to go.
		-- Wernher von Braun
0
linonut (8350)
10/19/2008 1:59:39 PM
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
> 
>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler 
>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of 
>>> inventing new ones.
>>> 
>>> Same goes for sound.
>>
>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>
>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
> 
> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
> 
> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
> sound support.
> 
> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)

WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?

-- 
Did you know?
Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences. 
He thought he was God, but she didn't.

0
wp5487 (399)
10/19/2008 2:04:35 PM
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:43:49 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I much prefer pipes.

What a surprise :(




-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/19/2008 4:06:46 PM
Appil asstroturfing fraudster pounding the sock Tim Smith
wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Appil Department of Marketing:

 wrote:

> In article <72sKk.73702$E41.21843@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
>  7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
>> I'd second that by saying go to www.youtube.com and search for
>> Linux and compiz. I genuinely fail to see why windummies and appil
>> retards have such a hard time accepting their osen are nowhere near as
>> good!
> 
> Most people aren't as easily impressed as you.


What you are really saying is that you are a sad enough to
pretend to be impressed by Appil crap just because shrieking gay
Appil marketing retards are forcing you?


> The best you can say about Compiz in regard to OS X and Windows is that
> Compiz happened to include flashier effects for some things, such as
> transitions among desktops.

Well - that just about rounds it up as to why compiz is better.

 
> And when you look beyond the window manager, it's no contest.  Core
> Image, Core Video, and Core Animation are far beyond

in Linux graphics and video systems.

The reason is simple. Linux is a whole lot quicker than appil crap.
The frame rate x resolution envelope is better than any proprietory
systems out there and that makes proprietory suck especially if paying
above the odds don't get you value for money as you might with Linux.

http://www.livecdlist.com
http://www.distrowatch.com
http://www.youtube.com search for Linux and compiz.


0
10/19/2008 5:12:28 PM
In article <0UJKk.74027$E41.70642@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
 7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
> > The best you can say about Compiz in regard to OS X and Windows is that
> > Compiz happened to include flashier effects for some things, such as
> > transitions among desktops.
> 
> Well - that just about rounds it up as to why compiz is better.

Let's summarize.  Linux is currently capable of a limited subset of what 
OS X can do with graphics and video, but because the Compiz people 
happened to pick a fancier transition to use in their window manager, 
you think Compiz is superior.

That would be like saying NT was the best operating system of its day, 
because it had the best looking screen saver of the day (pipes).


-- 
--Tim Smith
0
reply_in_group (13194)
10/19/2008 7:48:20 PM
Tim Smith wrote:

> In article <0UJKk.74027$E41.70642@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
>  7 <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
>> > The best you can say about Compiz in regard to OS X and Windows is that
>> > Compiz happened to include flashier effects for some things, such as
>> > transitions among desktops.
>> 
>> Well - that just about rounds it up as to why compiz is better.
> 
> Let's summarize.  Linux is currently capable of a limited subset of what
> OS X can do with graphics and video, 

Interesting claim.
So what is it OSX can do with graphics linux can't?
After all, it has to be something spectacular because you claim linux
graphics capabilities is just a "limited subset of what OS X can do"
-- 
Perl - the only language that looks the same before and after RSA
encryption.
    -- Keith Bostic

0
10/19/2008 8:38:47 PM
In article <48fb9ad7$0$14062$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>,
 Peter Kohlmann <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> wrote:
> > Let's summarize.  Linux is currently capable of a limited subset of what
> > OS X can do with graphics and video, 
> 
> Interesting claim.
> So what is it OSX can do with graphics linux can't?
> After all, it has to be something spectacular because you claim linux
> graphics capabilities is just a "limited subset of what OS X can do"

Do things like these in a few hundred lines of code:

   <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srDkugKfGY0>
   <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyd8O-2mkgk>

After that, make it so that a series of filters are applied to each 
frame of the videos, such as a gaussian blur and a lens effect, and make 
it so those filters are parameterized, in real time, by some aspect 
(volume, dominant frequency, or whatever else interests you) from the 
audio input from the microphone--without adding a lot more code.

No doubt, you could do this on Linux, by writing a heck of a lot of 
OpenGL code.

But on OS X, Apple builds this into the system.  It's all available for 
quick and easy use by application programmers.  The system handles 
compiling your stack of image filters into GPU code.  It handles 
animating your animations between initial and final states--and if the 
final state is changed in the middle of an animation sequence (because 
you are doing this interactively and the user has changed something), it 
deals with smoothly transitioning to the new animation sequence.


-- 
--Tim Smith
0
reply_in_group (13194)
10/19/2008 10:49:24 PM
Tim Smith wrote:

> In article <48fb9ad7$0$14062$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>,
>  Peter Kohlmann <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> wrote:
>> > Let's summarize.  Linux is currently capable of a limited subset of
>> > what OS X can do with graphics and video,
>> 
>> Interesting claim.
>> So what is it OSX can do with graphics linux can't?
>> After all, it has to be something spectacular because you claim linux
>> graphics capabilities is just a "limited subset of what OS X can do"
> 
> Do things like these in a few hundred lines of code:
> 
>    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srDkugKfGY0>
>    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyd8O-2mkgk>
> 
> After that, make it so that a series of filters are applied to each
> frame of the videos, such as a gaussian blur and a lens effect, and make
> it so those filters are parameterized, in real time, by some aspect
> (volume, dominant frequency, or whatever else interests you) from the
> audio input from the microphone--without adding a lot more code.
> 
> No doubt, you could do this on Linux, by writing a heck of a lot of
> OpenGL code.

Well, Core Animatin certainly looks fine. But the basic capabilities are
already present in linux (see compiz et al). It just needs an additional
layer like apples core animation.
And I highly doubt that it would be "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code"

> But on OS X, Apple builds this into the system.  It's all available for
> quick and easy use by application programmers.  The system handles
> compiling your stack of image filters into GPU code.  It handles
> animating your animations between initial and final states--and if the
> final state is changed in the middle of an animation sequence (because
> you are doing this interactively and the user has changed something), it
> deals with smoothly transitioning to the new animation sequence.
> 
 
This is all fine and dandy. But I need actually 0% of that. And the same
would be true for most of the users out there.
*And* it has nothing to with the underlying "graphics capabilities" of linux
and/or OSX. The needed capabilities are present. In linux, just the CA
layer needs to be filled in.

I am certain when more than the current 3 users interested in those
capabilities show up, those will be added ASAP
-- 
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

0
10/19/2008 11:36:34 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____

> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>> 
>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>> 
>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>
>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>
>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>> 
>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>> 
>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>> sound support.
>> 
>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
> 
> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?

I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might have
the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz     | D-I-S-C-O becomes D-I-E S-C-O
http://Schestowitz.com  |  GNU is Not UNIX  |     PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
      http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/19/2008 11:40:10 PM
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:40:10 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____
> 
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>> 
>>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>>
>>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>>
>>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>>> 
>>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>>> 
>>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>>> sound support.
>>> 
>>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
>> 
>> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?
> 
> I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might have
> the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.

Nobody cares what you do Roy Schestowitz.

You're a bumbling idiot whose importance to the Linux movement exists only
in your twisted mind.

Most people consider you to be a crackpot.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/19/2008 11:54:38 PM
"Peter K�hlmann" <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> wrote in message 
news:48fbc482$0$13403$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
> Tim Smith wrote:
>
>> In article <48fb9ad7$0$14062$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>,
>>  Peter Kohlmann <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> wrote:
>>> > Let's summarize.  Linux is currently capable of a limited subset of
>>> > what OS X can do with graphics and video,
>>>
>>> Interesting claim.
>>> So what is it OSX can do with graphics linux can't?
>>> After all, it has to be something spectacular because you claim linux
>>> graphics capabilities is just a "limited subset of what OS X can do"
>>
>> Do things like these in a few hundred lines of code:
>>
>>    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srDkugKfGY0>
>>    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyd8O-2mkgk>


Tim - Amazing videos. I normally don't watch you-tube vids but I saw these 
and was impressed.


>> After that, make it so that a series of filters are applied to each
>> frame of the videos, such as a gaussian blur and a lens effect, and make
>> it so those filters are parameterized, in real time, by some aspect
>> (volume, dominant frequency, or whatever else interests you) from the
>> audio input from the microphone--without adding a lot more code.
>>
>> No doubt, you could do this on Linux, by writing a heck of a lot of
>> OpenGL code.
>
> Well, Core Animatin certainly looks fine. But the basic capabilities are
> already present in linux (see compiz et al). It just needs an additional
> layer like apples core animation.

Well then. I guess those capabilities are already present in just about 
every OS. All that's needed is a bunch of stuff that doesn't exist. Hell... 
every feature is available in Windows. All that's lacking is a few million 
lines of code.

> And I highly doubt that it would be "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code"

Then you should have no problem either writing or finding a Linux demo that 
can do 20% of what the OSX demo just did.


>> But on OS X, Apple builds this into the system.  It's all available for
>> quick and easy use by application programmers.  The system handles
>> compiling your stack of image filters into GPU code.  It handles
>> animating your animations between initial and final states--and if the
>> final state is changed in the middle of an animation sequence (because
>> you are doing this interactively and the user has changed something), it
>> deals with smoothly transitioning to the new animation sequence.
>>
>
> This is all fine and dandy. But I need actually 0% of that. And the same
> would be true for most of the users out there.

Are these the same Linux users who drool over "wobbly windows" and a 
rotating cube with fish swimming inside?


> *And* it has nothing to with the underlying "graphics capabilities" of 
> linux
> and/or OSX. The needed capabilities are present. In linux, just the CA
> layer needs to be filled in.

As long as the graphics card works with the computer then in theory every OS 
has this feature. Hint for you... the fact that the CA layer is missing on 
Linux means that the feature doesn't exist.


> I am certain when more than the current 3 users interested in those
> capabilities show up, those will be added ASAP

Right after they perfect the "wobbly windows" and rotating 3D cubes. Yeah... 
it's not like Linux users are interested in eye candy or anything. Clearly 
Compiz has no ambition to do anything like this. Isn't it Shuttleworth on 
record as saying that Ubuntu needs to be more like a Mac? Then again... 
Shuttleworth knows nothing compared to you, Schestowitz and 7.


> -- 
> My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
> 


0
zeke7545 (533)
10/20/2008 12:04:52 AM
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:04:52 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:


> Are these the same Linux users who drool over "wobbly windows" and a 
> rotating cube with fish swimming inside?

The fishtank thing is pretty kool.
I think I see a couple of friends in there....

It's totally useless for productivity though, but nice to look at.


> Right after they perfect the "wobbly windows" and rotating 3D cubes. Yeah... 
> it's not like Linux users are interested in eye candy or anything. Clearly 
> Compiz has no ambition to do anything like this. Isn't it Shuttleworth on 
> record as saying that Ubuntu needs to be more like a Mac? Then again... 
> Shuttleworth knows nothing compared to you, Schestowitz and 7.

I just tested Ubuntu 8.10 on a machine and to my disappointment it's as
ugly as the previous version.
Yea, it can be changed, but first impressions mean a lot to people.

Take Linux Mint which is beautiful right from the start IMHO.

Mandriva 2009 is very nice looking as well, it just has too many problems.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/20/2008 12:25:50 AM
Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> writes:

> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler 
>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of 
>> inventing new ones.
>> 
>> Same goes for sound.
>
> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>
>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>

Well, anyone that is honest and actually uses Linux (and I dont mean
evening tinkerers like Windows programmer Koehlmann ) knows all about
this. Apparently, according to the COLA loons, Linux sound "just works"
and has done for years. Strange then how I had to install Pulse Audio to
get sound from more than one source at a time!

The article explains it all very well and echoes what I, and other
posters have been saying. Expect a DOS attack on the author from Roy and
the gang.


-- 
"I would assume her children might like to know where their mother is and 
have a place to *visit* her."
                  -- "tiny dancer" <tinydancer357@nospamhotmail.com> in alt.true-crime, comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/20/2008 2:37:48 AM
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:40:10 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____
> 
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>> 
>>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>>
>>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>>
>>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>>> 
>>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>>> 
>>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>>> sound support.
>>> 
>>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
>> 
>> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?
> 
> I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might have
> the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.


Heh, heh! Well good luck with that, Roy! 
Before you do, perhaps you should take a look here first:
http://www.ppsgb.com/pages/products/biohazard_protection_suits.htm   ;-)


-- 
Did you know?
Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences. 
He thought he was God, but she didn't.

0
wp5487 (399)
10/20/2008 10:08:36 AM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ William Poaster on Monday 20 October 2008 10:08 : \____

> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:40:10 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> ____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____
>> 
>>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> 
>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>> 
>>>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>>>
>>>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>>>
>>>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>>>> 
>>>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>>>> 
>>>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>>>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>>>> sound support.
>>>> 
>>>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>>>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
>>> 
>>> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?
>> 
>> I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might
>> have the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.
> 
> 
> Heh, heh! Well good luck with that, Roy!
> Before you do, perhaps you should take a look here first:
> http://www.ppsgb.com/pages/products/biohazard_protection_suits.htm   ;-)

For me or for Gary? Microsoft is said to be distributing these for free when
SweatyB enters the facilities.

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      | You can never get nine women to deliver a baby in a
month
http://Schestowitz.com  |  Open Prospects   |     PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 140 total,   1 running, 139 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
      http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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=zV3r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/20/2008 10:56:42 AM
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:56:42 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ____/ William Poaster on Monday 20 October 2008 10:08 : \____
> 
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:40:10 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> 
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> 
>>> ____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>>>>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>>>>> sound support.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>>>>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
>>>> 
>>>> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?
>>> 
>>> I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might
>>> have the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.
>> 
>> 
>> Heh, heh! Well good luck with that, Roy!
>> Before you do, perhaps you should take a look here first:
>> http://www.ppsgb.com/pages/products/biohazard_protection_suits.htm   ;-)
> 
> For me or for Gary? Microsoft is said to be distributing these for free when
> SweatyB enters the facilities.

I hear they also distribute these, when Sweaty approaches the building:
http://www.arnold-ppe.com/riotshieldam2.asp

Just in case Monkey Boy decides to throw a chair or two.... 

-- 
Did you know?
Hadron Quack & his wife divorced over religious differences. 
He thought he was God, but she didn't.

0
wp5487 (399)
10/20/2008 11:32:39 AM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ William Poaster on Monday 20 October 2008 11:32 : \____

> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:56:42 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> ____/ William Poaster on Monday 20 October 2008 10:08 : \____
>> 
>>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:40:10 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>> 
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>> 
>>>> ____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>>>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>>>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>>>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>>>>>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>>>>>> sound support.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>>>>>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
>>>>> 
>>>>> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might
>>>> have the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Heh, heh! Well good luck with that, Roy!
>>> Before you do, perhaps you should take a look here first:
>>> http://www.ppsgb.com/pages/products/biohazard_protection_suits.htm   ;-)
>> 
>> For me or for Gary? Microsoft is said to be distributing these for free when
>> SweatyB enters the facilities.
> 
> I hear they also distribute these, when Sweaty approaches the building:
> http://www.arnold-ppe.com/riotshieldam2.asp
> 
> Just in case Monkey Boy decides to throw a chair or two....

The Ballmers are said to be an endangered species anyway.

http://www.enews20.com/content/thumbs/thumb_360.jpg

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      |    "Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector"
http://Schestowitz.com  |  Open Prospects   |     PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 140 total,   1 running, 139 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
      http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/20/2008 12:58:03 PM
Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:

> ____/ William Poaster on Monday 20 October 2008 11:32 : \____
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:56:42 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> ____/ William Poaster on Monday 20 October 2008 10:08 : \____
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:40:10 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>
>>>>> ____/ William Poaster on Sunday 19 October 2008 14:04 : \____
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:40:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Tim Smith belched out
>>>>>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <9z0xwhaxxnp3.1nw6xdaewczsp.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>>>>>>  "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'll give you a hint, we don't need another iPod manager or compiler
>>>>>>>>> or editor. Fix the ones that are out there already instead of
>>>>>>>>> inventing new ones.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Same goes for sound.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The state of Linux sound, outside of COLA:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    <http://lwn.net/Articles/299093/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't be an asshat, Tim.  We had this discussion already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Linux" isn't Microsoft, and "Linux" isn't Apple.  In spite of the
>>>>>>> variety of solutions, we still manage to have good userland and pro
>>>>>>> sound support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And there is no single line of thought in COLA.  Nice try at painting
>>>>>>> the poster here as dazed followers of (who knows what?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WTF are those two trolls blubbering about sound for, & to whom?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to do an experiment for a week and disable the filters. I might
>>>>> have the opportunity to insult the trolls before coming back to kf mode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Heh, heh! Well good luck with that, Roy!
>>>> Before you do, perhaps you should take a look here first:
>>>> http://www.ppsgb.com/pages/products/biohazard_protection_suits.htm   ;-)
>>>
>>> For me or for Gary? Microsoft is said to be distributing these for free when
>>> SweatyB enters the facilities.
>>
>> I hear they also distribute these, when Sweaty approaches the building:
>> http://www.arnold-ppe.com/riotshieldam2.asp
>>
>> Just in case Monkey Boy decides to throw a chair or two....
>
> The Ballmers are said to be an endangered species anyway.
>
> http://www.enews20.com/content/thumbs/thumb_360.jpg

Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is CEO of the one of the
world's biggest companies. You're a perpetual student who earns money
spamming the internet. I think you should save the insults. And to pick
on someone you personally have ZERO contact with is, frankly, the
actions of a rather pathetic little man with little if any social
graces.

How's the search engine coming along? Got any one to code your hit
maker?


>
> --
>                 ~~ Best of wishes
>
> Roy S. Schestowitz      |    "Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector"
> http://Schestowitz.com  |  Open Prospects   |     PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
> Tasks: 140 total,   1 running, 139 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
>       http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine

-- 
"Vista actually requires more ram than a 32bit cpu can 
address."
                  -- A Z Nomad in comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/20/2008 1:37:48 PM
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:37:48 +0200, Hadron wrote:


> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is CEO of the one of the
> world's biggest companies. You're a perpetual student who earns money
> spamming the internet. I think you should save the insults. And to pick
> on someone you personally have ZERO contact with is, frankly, the
> actions of a rather pathetic little man with little if any social
> graces.
> 
> How's the search engine coming along? Got any one to code your hit
> maker?

Hahaha.
Search engine?
That's funny!

Bottom line is that Schestowitz is a boob.
A social defect that hides behind a "research position" in school because
he can't make it in the outside world.
He SPAMS somewhere near 18 hours per day, in one form or another, so it's
fairly obvious that he is not working full time or if he is then he is
cheating the school.

Schestowitz does however provide quite a show and the ticket is free!
Watching him dance around like some kind of paranoid loon at the end of a
string is absolutely priceless.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/20/2008 2:48:03 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 13:37 : \____

> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is

He is a thug and he runs a corrupt organisation, with convictions and jail time
to prove it.

The plenty of available evidence speak louder than your Munchkin-esque spew.

- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      |    $> apt-get -not windows
http://Schestowitz.com  |  GNU is Not UNIX  |     PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
      http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/20/2008 2:54:44 PM
Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:

> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 13:37 : \____
>
>> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is
>
> He is a thug and he runs a corrupt organisation, with convictions and jail time
> to prove it.
>
> The plenty of available evidence speak louder than your Munchkin-esque
> spew.

You are a pathetic little man Roy. Did you know that? Your libel and
your lies say more about you than you can ever say about businessmen you
have never met and know little, if anything about. So is it true you
were refused a Microsoft scholarship and that is the reason you hate
them so much?

Your comments above suggest Ballmer had jail time. Shall i forward that
to MS for them to confirm? Or maybe you would provide the proof?

-- 
"Off the top of my head, I can't tell you which sites. They are ones that 
throw up some kind of dialog, I change the user agent and look at them 
again, then move on."
                  -- Rick <none@nomail.com> telling lies in comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/20/2008 4:01:18 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 16:01 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:
> 
>> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 13:37 : \____
>>
>>> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is
>>
>> He is a thug and he runs a corrupt organisation, with convictions and jail
>> time to prove it.
>>
>> The plenty of available evidence speak louder than your Munchkin-esque
>> spew.
> 
> You are a pathetic little man Roy. Did you know that? Your libel and
> your lies say more about you than you can ever say about businessmen you
> have never met and know little, if anything about. So is it true you
> were refused a Microsoft scholarship and that is the reason you hate
> them so much?
> 
> Your comments above suggest Ballmer had jail time. Shall i forward that
> to MS for them to confirm? Or maybe you would provide the proof?

I was referring to "corrupt organisation". it's a factual statement.

Ex-Microsoft Manager Sentenced for Fraud

http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MzM3NjYsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=

Ex-Microsoft Manager Pleads Guilty, Sentenced For Embezzlement

http://www.crn.com/software/209400603

Ex-Microsoft manager ordered to prison

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2008/07/19/Ex-Microsoft_manager_ordered_to_prison/UPI-73221216506990/

Ex-Microsoft manager jailed for $1m fraud

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2222135/microsoft-manager-jailed-1m-cons

Ex-Microsoft Manager Gets 22 Months for Fraud

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/148642/exmicrosoft_manager_gets_22_months_for_fraud.html

Ex-Microsoft boss sentenced

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/371393_msftcourt19.html

Former Microsoft Manager Gets 2 Years In Jail

http://news.portalit.net/fullnews_former-microsoft-manager-gets-2-years-in-jail_1427.html

Kirkland woman senteced to 22 months, ordered to repay nearly $1 million, for
embezzlement scheme

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/news/25634819.html


- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz      | Anonymity - established 2001, Google Groups
http://Schestowitz.com  |  GNU is Not UNIX  |     PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
      http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/20/2008 5:53:02 PM
Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:

> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 16:01 : \____
>
>> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>
>>> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 13:37 : \____
>>>
>>>> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is
>>>
>>> He is a thug and he runs a corrupt organisation, with convictions and jail
>>> time to prove it.
>>>
>>> The plenty of available evidence speak louder than your Munchkin-esque
>>> spew.
>>
>> You are a pathetic little man Roy. Did you know that? Your libel and
>> your lies say more about you than you can ever say about businessmen you
>> have never met and know little, if anything about. So is it true you
>> were refused a Microsoft scholarship and that is the reason you hate
>> them so much?
>>
>> Your comments above suggest Ballmer had jail time. Shall i forward that
>> to MS for them to confirm? Or maybe you would provide the proof?
>
> I was referring to "corrupt organisation". it's a factual statement.

No you weren't. As was quite clear from your grammar.


>
> Ex-Microsoft Manager Sentenced for Fraud
>
> http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MzM3NjYsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
>

BTW, you do know that she embezzled money FROM MS don't you?

How does that make MS "corrupt"?

Oops! Time for damage limitation manoevres! Get Willy and peter to drown
the thread with "me toos". maybe some "doesnt quite get it" from High
Plains Hypocrite will blind people with laughter. Ideally a few "growls"
from self confessed "COLA enforcer" Terrance Porter could add to the FUD
and hide your libel.

Lets wait and see if MS can confirm your claims. Should be interesting.
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/20/2008 6:10:26 PM
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:01:18 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:
> 
>> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 13:37 : \____
>>
>>> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is
>>
>> He is a thug and he runs a corrupt organisation, with convictions and jail time
>> to prove it.
>>
>> The plenty of available evidence speak louder than your Munchkin-esque
>> spew.
> 
> You are a pathetic little man Roy. Did you know that? Your libel and
> your lies say more about you than you can ever say about businessmen you
> have never met and know little, if anything about. So is it true you
> were refused a Microsoft scholarship and that is the reason you hate
> them so much?
> 
> Your comments above suggest Ballmer had jail time. Shall i forward that
> to MS for them to confirm? Or maybe you would provide the proof?

The problem with Roy is that he believes that he is above reproach and that
his statements and actions will be taken as is.
He is not, and they are not.

He posted that leaked ooxml vs odf doc on his BN site, then bragged about
how the server kept going down due to the traffic.

Of course it was.
The dammed file is a 600 page PDF file.
It would probably take 5 people downloading it at the same time to bury his
server.

But the real good part comes out when it starts getting too hot for him to
handle, IOW people in high places know about this and quite possibly could
hit him with a copyright infringement suit.

So Roy goes running away claiming victory.

That's in a nutshell what he is about.

He's like the bully in the playground who calls the other kids names but
then starts crying when they gang up and beat the crap out of him.

Roy is making some very serious accusations, which is fine as long as he
has the documentation to substantiate his claims, and he might very well
have it.
However, he has no doubt attracted the attention of those people and
companies that he is accusing and they are surely watching him.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/20/2008 6:29:05 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 18:10 : \____

> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:
> 
>> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 16:01 : \____
>>
>>> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> ____/ Hadron on Monday 20 October 2008 13:37 : \____
>>>>
>>>>> Who are you Roy Schestowitz? Steve Ballmer is
>>>>
>>>> He is a thug and he runs a corrupt organisation, with convictions and jail
>>>> time to prove it.
>>>>
>>>> The plenty of available evidence speak louder than your Munchkin-esque
>>>> spew.
>>>
>>> You are a pathetic little man Roy. Did you know that? Your libel and
>>> your lies say more about you than you can ever say about businessmen you
>>> have never met and know little, if anything about. So is it true you
>>> were refused a Microsoft scholarship and that is the reason you hate
>>> them so much?
>>>
>>> Your comments above suggest Ballmer had jail time. Shall i forward that
>>> to MS for them to confirm? Or maybe you would provide the proof?
>>
>> I was referring to "corrupt organisation". it's a factual statement.
> 
> No you weren't. As was quite clear from your grammar.

No.

>> Ex-Microsoft Manager Sentenced for Fraud
>>
>> http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MzM3NjYsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
>>
> 
> BTW, you do know that she embezzled money FROM MS don't you?
> 
> How does that make MS "corrupt"?
> 
> Oops! Time for damage limitation manoevres! Get Willy and peter to drown
> the thread with "me toos". maybe some "doesnt quite get it" from High
> Plains Hypocrite will blind people with laughter. Ideally a few "growls"
> from self confessed "COLA enforcer" Terrance Porter could add to the FUD
> and hide your libel.
> 
> Lets wait and see if MS can confirm your claims. Should be interesting.

Since you beg for it:

Microfraud?

,----[ Quote ]
| THE ALLEGATIONS WERE shocking: For years, Microsoft has systematically
| distorted its profit figures in an effort to consistently beat Wall Street
| expectations and keep its stock price steadily rising. The false reports
| would violate SEC regulations, and amount to outright fraud.
|
| More shocking was the source of the allegations: Microsoft's chief of
| internal audits, Charlie Pancerzewski, who reported directly to the company's
| chief financial officer.
|
| Most shocking of all was what happened to Pancerzewski when he reported the
| suspicious bookkeeping to his supervisors, Microsoft CFO Mike Brown and chief
| operating officer Bob Herbold, in the spring of 1995. Soon afterward,
| Pancerzewski—who for nearly five years had received stellar performance
| evaluations—received his first-ever unsatisfactory one, and was eventually
| forced to resign.
|
| Two months ago, Microsoft quietly settled a lawsuit containing these
| allegations, filed in 1997 by Pancerzewski under the Whistleblowers
| Protection Act. The auditor claimed he was wrongfully terminated after
| telling his supervisors that Microsoft might be breaking securities and tax
| laws. The lawsuit made its tortuous way through several rounds of pretrial
| motions until last fall, when US District Judge Carolyn Dimmick denied
| Microsoft's final plea for summary judgment, finding credible evidence that
| Microsoft may have violated SEC rules, as Pancerzewski alleged. Shortly
| thereafter, Microsoft and Pancerzewski settled out of court. Terms of the
| agreement were sealed, but one source who claims familiarity with the case
| says that Microsoft paid Pancerzewski $4 million.
`----

http://web.archive.org/web/20070308032343rn_2/www.seattleweekly.com/1999-01-06/news/microfraud.php


Microsoft's Accounting Under Scrutiny

,----[ Quote ]
| The company has still not made enough information public to provide analysts
| with detailed information on the profitability of its MSN Internet business,
| Mr. Galvin said, adding, ''There's still room for them to obfuscate.''
`----

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A03E1DC173DF932A35754C0A96F958260


Microsoft - Undeserving of Libertarian Praise

,----[ Quote ]
| One strategy that Microsoft has employed in the past is paying for the
| silence of people and companies. Charles Pancerzewski, formerly Microsoft's
| chief auditor, became aware of Microsoft's practice of carrying earnings from
| one accounting period into another, known as "managing earnings". This
| practice smoothes reported revenue streams, increases share value, and
| misleads employees and shareholders. In addition to being unethical, it's
| also illegal under U.S. Securities Law and violates Generally Accepted
| Accounting Practices (Fink). Mr. Pancerzewski claims he was forced to retire,
| for raising the issue of deferred earnings with Microsoft executives, thereby
| making plausible deniability more difficult for said executives. He has since
| sued Microsoft, who responded by settling out of court, but also sealing the
| records to prevent public disclosure (Fink).
`----

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/8/20/11034/3908


Microsoft Agrees To Refrain From Accounting Violations in SEC Settlement

,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft has agreed to refrain from accounting violations to settle federal
| regulators' allegations that it misrepresented its financial performance, the
| government announced Monday.
|
| Under a settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the software
| giant neither admitted to nor denied wrongdoing. No fine was imposed.
|
| The SEC alleged that Microsoft's accounting practices from July 1994 through
| June 1998 caused its income to be substantially misstated.
`----

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18819490


"Microsoft Tax," MSN Enters the Black Hole, New Names for NT

,----[ Quote ]
| The lawsuit, filed last year by Mukilteo City Councilman Charles
| Pancerzewski, alleges that he was forced to resign as Microsoft's general
| auditor in January 1996 after working for the company's internal auditing
| department for more than four years. The suit claims that a "significantly
| younger man" with little auditing experience was picked to replace
| Pancerzewski, who was finally forced out because he discovered Microsoft
| might have been violating government regulations. Once Pancerzewski left the
| company he was replaced by the younger man, who his attorneys believe
| was "less prone to raise issues of possible legal improprieties which could
| threaten or embarrass Microsoft or its management.
`----

http://www.msboycott.com/news/98_06_22.shtml


SEC Investigating Microsoft Practices -- Earnings Manipulated, Former Employee
Contends

,----[  Quote]
| "The CFO to whom Charlie was reporting his concerns about illegality was the
| biggest advocate for the very illegality that was going on," Vial argued in
| court a year ago.
`----

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990701&slug=2969514

Ecuador Tax Agency Closes Microsoft Branch Offices For 7 Days

,----[ Quote ]
| "We have twice requested balances, payment reports and complete tax
| information, but the company hasn't given it to us, so in accordance with our
| laws we have proceeded with the closure," the SRI official in charge of the
| proceeding said.  
`----

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200710041610DOWJONESDJONLINE000810_FORTUNE5.htm


Microsoft Office raid in Hungary

,----[ Quote ]
| "Such behavior could lead to the exclusion of competitive products from
| the market and violate European Union rules, according to the authority
| known as the GVH."
`----

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/26/ap3957835.html


Microsoft exec dumped stock prior to Red Ring announcement

,----[ Quote ]
| To make matters more murky, the sales were not registered with the Securities
| and Exchange Commission within the mandatory two days of the transaction, a
| result of an alleged "administrative error." Microsoft has since remedied the
| issue by following the "procedures required of late-filers."  
`----

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/08/14/microsoft-exec-dumped-stocks-prior-to-red-ring-addresment


Microsoft's Bach sold more stock before Xbox news

,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft Corp. executive Robbie Bach sold $3 million more in company stock
| during the period leading up to an announcement about a costly flaw in its
| Xbox video game console than previously reported, according to a filing
| Monday with the Securities and Exchange Commission.  
`----

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/microsofts-bach-sold-additional-stock/story.aspx?guid=%7BBECA3A50-EF33-4161-A111-A43BDC8B0462%7D&siteid=yhoof


Insider Trading Hasn't Affect Microsoft Stock - Yet

,----[ Quote ]
| MarketWatch.com reports that Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's
| Entertainment and Devices division, sold $6.2 million of Microsoft
| stock just prior to announcing that Microsoft was going to have to
| extend XBox 360 warranties to three years because of extensive
| failures. The filings note that this was not part of any
| scheduled diversification or selling program; this was a
| conscious, unscheduled sale by the guy in charge of releasing
| news that could affect the value of Microsoft stock.
|
| [...]
|
| Insider trading is a very serious violation of the law; just
| ask Martha Stewart, who served five months in prison for
| avoiding losses of $43,000 through trades that just had suspicious
| timing (no insider trading was actually proven). This is $6.3
| million that went straight into Robbie Bach's pocket.
`----

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070713/40947_id.html?.v=1


- -- 
                ~~ Best of wishes

Microsoft loves competition.
"Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to
everything it touches."
                --Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/20/2008 8:10:27 PM
"Peter K�hlmann" <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> stated in post
48fbc482$0$13403$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net on 10/19/08 4:36 PM:

> Tim Smith wrote:
> 
>> In article <48fb9ad7$0$14062$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>,
>>  Peter Kohlmann <peter.koehlmann@arcor.de> wrote:
>>>> Let's summarize.  Linux is currently capable of a limited subset of
>>>> what OS X can do with graphics and video,
>>> 
>>> Interesting claim.
>>> So what is it OSX can do with graphics linux can't?
>>> After all, it has to be something spectacular because you claim linux
>>> graphics capabilities is just a "limited subset of what OS X can do"
>> 
>> Do things like these in a few hundred lines of code:
>> 
>>    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srDkugKfGY0>
>>    <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyd8O-2mkgk>
>> 
>> After that, make it so that a series of filters are applied to each
>> frame of the videos, such as a gaussian blur and a lens effect, and make
>> it so those filters are parameterized, in real time, by some aspect
>> (volume, dominant frequency, or whatever else interests you) from the
>> audio input from the microphone--without adding a lot more code.
>> 
>> No doubt, you could do this on Linux, by writing a heck of a lot of
>> OpenGL code.
> 
> Well, Core Animatin certainly looks fine. But the basic capabilities are
> already present in linux (see compiz et al). It just needs an additional
> layer like apples core animation.

OK, so Linux "needs" something to do what OS X is doing... hence it
currently, as a rule, lacks it.

> And I highly doubt that it would be "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code"
> 
>> But on OS X, Apple builds this into the system.  It's all available for
>> quick and easy use by application programmers.  The system handles
>> compiling your stack of image filters into GPU code.  It handles
>> animating your animations between initial and final states--and if the
>> final state is changed in the middle of an animation sequence (because
>> you are doing this interactively and the user has changed something), it
>> deals with smoothly transitioning to the new animation sequence.
>> 
>  
> This is all fine and dandy. But I need actually 0% of that. And the same
> would be true for most of the users out there.

Ah, now you are moving goal posts from:

    So what is it OSX can do with graphics linux can't?

To your *views* of what most users do or do not need.  Funny... when I have
talked about things that benefit most users, and have even provided research
and expert opinion to support my views, you have not jumped in to support
what would benefit *most* users.  Specifically I am talking about a
consistent and well designed UI.  If your new standard, though, is what is
"true for most users", clearly Linux is lacking in terms of UI
consistency... don't you agree?

> *And* it has nothing to with the underlying "graphics capabilities" of linux
> and/or OSX. The needed capabilities are present. In linux, just the CA
> layer needs to be filled in.

Those "layers" boost what programmers can easily do with graphics.

> I am certain when more than the current 3 users interested in those
> capabilities show up, those will be added ASAP

But you cannot, of course, support this... right?

-- 
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson



0
usenet2 (47889)
10/20/2008 9:03:59 PM
Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o'
> wisdom:

>> I must be doing something wrong. My KDE desktop is very nicely
>> integrated overall. Drag-and-drop interfaces are a joy!
> 
> I much prefer pipes.
> 
> How else can I find 22 related e-mails in my .maildir, count them,
> and copy them to a holding directory, in one line of code?

Thunderbird has a nice search feature, where searches can be saved as a
virtual folder that keeps in sync with the search parameters.

However, there are still many things for which scripting just makes more
sense. Is there any GUI "app" that could do this, for example?:

First script:

.. Monitor a directory "videos" on an NFS share
.. Try to make a list of 4.3GB of videos, or wait for more to appear
.. Use mkisofs to create an ISO of those video files, once available
.. Move that ISO to a second directory "ISOs" on the same NFS share
.. Delete the "burned" video files
.. Rinse, repeat

Second script:

.. Monitor a directory "ISO" on the NFS share
.. If there's an ISO, check for a blank DVD
.. If there's no blank DVD, eject the drawer and wait 30 secs
.. If there's a blank DVD, burn the ISO
.. Verify the burn succeeded before deleting the ISO file
.. Rinse, repeat

So basically all I have to do is drop my ISOs and video files on the
server via NFS, then every now and then pop through with a blank DVD.

The "ease" of using GUI apps is all very well, but there are simply far
too many permutations of tasks to be covered by any one application.
Using scripts allows one to accomplish /exactly/ what one wants, exactly
the way one wants to do it ... every time. This is especially true when
one is automating tasks and/or working on a large number of files, but
frankly I'm happier working that way even for trivial tasks.

For those who like doing things somebody /else's/ way, I suppose gooeys
are "good enough".

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
|  the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
|  weeks after initial exposure to Lisp."   ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
 00:28:33 up 10 days,  9:24,  3 users,  load average: 0.19, 0.24, 0.38
0
usenet3690 (8688)
10/20/2008 11:28:51 PM
Homer <usenet@slated.org> writes:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o'
>> wisdom:
>
>>> I must be doing something wrong. My KDE desktop is very nicely
>>> integrated overall. Drag-and-drop interfaces are a joy!
>> 
>> I much prefer pipes.
>> 
>> How else can I find 22 related e-mails in my .maildir, count them,
>> and copy them to a holding directory, in one line of code?
>
> Thunderbird has a nice search feature, where searches can be saved as a
> virtual folder that keeps in sync with the search parameters.

That's nice. I use Mairix. Supported by Gnus of course. Served via
IMAP.


>
> However, there are still many things for which scripting just makes more
> sense. Is there any GUI "app" that could do this, for example?:

You guys seem to think a GUI app can not be scripted? Are you that
ignorant? The two work together in well designed applications.

>
> First script:
>
> . Monitor a directory "videos" on an NFS share
> . Try to make a list of 4.3GB of videos, or wait for more to appear
> . Use mkisofs to create an ISO of those video files, once available
> . Move that ISO to a second directory "ISOs" on the same NFS share
> . Delete the "burned" video files
> . Rinse, repeat
>
> Second script:
>
> . Monitor a directory "ISO" on the NFS share
> . If there's an ISO, check for a blank DVD
> . If there's no blank DVD, eject the drawer and wait 30 secs
> . If there's a blank DVD, burn the ISO
> . Verify the burn succeeded before deleting the ISO file
> . Rinse, repeat
>
> So basically all I have to do is drop my ISOs and video files on the
> server via NFS, then every now and then pop through with a blank DVD.
>
> The "ease" of using GUI apps is all very well, but there are simply far
> too many permutations of tasks to be covered by any one application.

Which is why things like Python enable you to tack a cheap and quick to
implement UI on some powerful scripting.

> Using scripts allows one to accomplish /exactly/ what one wants, exactly
> the way one wants to do it ... every time. This is especially true when
> one is automating tasks and/or working on a large number of files, but
> frankly I'm happier working that way even for trivial tasks.
>
> For those who like doing things somebody /else's/ way, I suppose gooeys
> are "good enough".


-- 
"It explains a lot.  I've not heard of anyone I know, anywhere, buying XP,
and I've not seen it sold whilst I've been in any shops."
               comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/20/2008 11:42:46 PM
Hadron wrote:

> Oops! Time for damage limitation manoevres! Get Willy and
> peter to drown the thread with "me toos". maybe some "doesnt
> quite get it" from High Plains Hypocrite will blind people
> with laughter. Ideally a few "growls" from self confessed
> "COLA enforcer" Terrance Porter could add to the FUD and hide
> your libel.

Rather sad that this troll cannot respect forum poster's nyms, 
resorting to insults.

These are examples of:

http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm

[quote] Subject: 3.4  The nasty Troll

If anyone does anything which will interfere with the troll's
ability to cause mayhem, they can become very nasty, posting from
obviously incorrect variations of the name etc. insults, call
them netcops, netnannies, homosexuals. [/quote]

also

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

[quote] 7.6 Trespasser Disinformation Tactics [...]

   [3.] Put your opponent off guard by insulting him.  The liberal
use of profanity and vulgarisms can be very effective,
particularly when used against you more dignified opponents. Your
experience as a school yard bully can be handy here. [/quote]

> Lets wait and see if MS can confirm your claims. Should be
> interesting.

and

[quote]
    31. If it makes Microsoft or Windows look bad call it a 
rumor.  Claim that anything that tends to make Microsoft or 
Windows look bad is an unfounded rumor and that you opponent is 
being unfair.  If the information is obscure enough claim that it 
is an urban legend, hoping that no one knows that many legends 
are based on fact.
[/quote]

-- 
HPT
Quando omni flunkus moritati
(If all else fails, play dead)
- "Red" Green
0
10/21/2008 1:44:42 AM
Verily I say unto thee, that Peter Köhlmann spake thusly:
> Tim Smith wrote:

>> No doubt, you could do this on Linux, by writing a heck of a lot of
>>  OpenGL code.
> 
> Well, Core Animatin certainly looks fine. But the basic capabilities
> are already present in linux (see compiz et al). It just needs an
> additional layer like apples core animation.
> And I highly doubt that it would be "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code"

Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core Animation for
Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code":

http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
|  the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
|  weeks after initial exposure to Lisp."   ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
 17:35:03 up 11 days,  2:30,  3 users,  load average: 0.14, 0.19, 0.14
0
usenet3690 (8688)
10/21/2008 4:35:53 PM
"Homer" <usenet@slated.org> wrote in message 
news:b0d1t5-99o.ln1@sky.matrix...
> Verily I say unto thee, that Peter K�hlmann spake thusly:
>> Tim Smith wrote:
>
>>> No doubt, you could do this on Linux, by writing a heck of a lot of
>>>  OpenGL code.
>>
>> Well, Core Animatin certainly looks fine. But the basic capabilities
>> are already present in linux (see compiz et al). It just needs an
>> additional layer like apples core animation.
>> And I highly doubt that it would be "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code"
>
> Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core Animation for
> Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code":
>
> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253
>

Well according to Peter this is worthless junk that fewer than 3 linux users 
need.

Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only person 
working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33 weeks ago at 
version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim how Linux has 
something that rivals core animation because of this dead project.




0
zeke7545 (533)
10/21/2008 4:49:02 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

>
> "Homer" <usenet@slated.org> wrote in message 
> news:b0d1t5-99o.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>
>> Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core Animation for
>> Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code":
>>
>> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253
>
> Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only person 
> working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33 weeks ago at 
> version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim how Linux has 
> something that rivals core animation because of this dead project.

<crickets>

Yeah, another prediction bites the dust.

Anyway, that's actually when he started the project.  And the site he
set up doesn't have /any/ files.  Not only dead, but stillborn.  No
milestones, no history.  Some code in the archive, but it looks like he
worked on it for just a few days.

-- 
Sir, it's very possible this asteroid is not stable.
		-- C3P0
0
linonut (8350)
10/21/2008 5:04:23 PM
Chris Ahlstrom <linonut@bollsouth.nut> writes:

> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>   this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>
>> "Homer" <usenet@slated.org> wrote in message 
>> news:b0d1t5-99o.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>
>>> Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core Animation for
>>> Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code":
>>>
>>> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253
>>
>> Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only person 
>> working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33 weeks ago at 
>> version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim how Linux has 
>> something that rivals core animation because of this dead project.
>
> <crickets>
>
> Yeah, another prediction bites the dust.
>
> Anyway, that's actually when he started the project.  And the site he
> set up doesn't have /any/ files.  Not only dead, but stillborn.  No
> milestones, no history.  Some code in the archive, but it looks like he
> worked on it for just a few days.

It's amazing how you made it sound like Ezekiel was wrong.

-- 
"It explains a lot.  I've not heard of anyone I know, anywhere, buying XP,
and I've not seen it sold whilst I've been in any shops."
               comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2008 5:08:17 PM
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:08:17 +0200, Hadron wrote:

> Chris Ahlstrom <linonut@bollsouth.nut> writes:
> 
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>>
>>> "Homer" <usenet@slated.org> wrote in message 
>>> news:b0d1t5-99o.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core Animation for
>>>> Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code":
>>>>
>>>> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253
>>>
>>> Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only person 
>>> working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33 weeks ago at 
>>> version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim how Linux has 
>>> something that rivals core animation because of this dead project.
>>
>> <crickets>
>>
>> Yeah, another prediction bites the dust.
>>
>> Anyway, that's actually when he started the project.  And the site he
>> set up doesn't have /any/ files.  Not only dead, but stillborn.  No
>> milestones, no history.  Some code in the archive, but it looks like he
>> worked on it for just a few days.
> 
> It's amazing how you made it sound like Ezekiel was wrong.

Classic COLA loon behavior.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Please Visit www.linsux.org
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
10/21/2008 6:07:59 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:08:17 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <linonut@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>> 
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out
>>>   this bit o' wisdom:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Homer" <usenet@slated.org> wrote in message 
>>>> news:b0d1t5-99o.ln1@sky.matrix...
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core Animation for
>>>>> Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of OpenGL code":
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253
>>>>
>>>> Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only person 
>>>> working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33 weeks ago at 
>>>> version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim how Linux has 
>>>> something that rivals core animation because of this dead project.
>>>
>>> <crickets>
>>>
>>> Yeah, another prediction bites the dust.
>>>
>>> Anyway, that's actually when he started the project.  And the site he
>>> set up doesn't have /any/ files.  Not only dead, but stillborn.  No
>>> milestones, no history.  Some code in the archive, but it looks like he
>>> worked on it for just a few days.
>> 
>> It's amazing how you made it sound like Ezekiel was wrong.
>
> Classic COLA loon behavior.

I'm beginning to wonder about Chris' sanity. He gets slapped in each and
every thread he joins in on the side of Willy and co. Is he mad? Or
being chucked another doggy drop by his Master Roy?

-- 
"Opening slide in movie: - Why Linux Sucks (4 Reasons) [no need to further explain, move along ....]"
                  -- High Plains Thumper <highplainsthumper@invalid.invalid.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2008 8:37:04 PM
Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>> "Homer" <usenet@slated.org> wrote in message 
>> news:b0d1t5-99o.ln1@sky.matrix...

>>> Maybe we could just ask the developer of Adamantium: Core
>>> Animation for Linux/X whether or not it takes "a heck of a lot of
>>> OpenGL code":
>>> 
>>> http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=7253
>> 
>> Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only
>> person working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33
>> weeks ago at version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim
>> how Linux has something that rivals core animation because of this
>> dead project.
> 
> <crickets>
> 
> Yeah, another prediction bites the dust.
> 
> Anyway, that's actually when he started the project.  And the site he
> set up doesn't have /any/ files.  Not only dead, but stillborn.  No 
> milestones, no history.  Some code in the archive, but it looks like
> he worked on it for just a few days.

Well if anyone is actually interested in Core Animation for Linux/X then
I'm sure somebody will pick up the baton and run with it. The fact that
there's a whole community of developers working on compiz, but only one
guy showing a passing interest in Core Animation, speaks volumes about
how low that level of interest is. Nonetheless, because it is (or will
be) Free Software then anyone who really wants to can work on it.

Maybe "Zek" could do it, since he doesn't seem to do much else besides
bitch about an OS he doesn't even use, much less develop for.

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
|  the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
|  weeks after initial exposure to Lisp."   ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----

Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
 17:01:50 up 12 days,  1:57,  3 users,  load average: 0.10, 0.09, 0.02
0
usenet3690 (8688)
10/22/2008 4:02:17 PM
After takin' a swig o' grog, Homer belched out
  this bit o' wisdom:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Ezekiel belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>> 
>>> Evidently the one guy working on the project agrees. He's the only
>>> person working on the project and it looks like he gave up on it 33
>>> weeks ago at version 0.1.7. Now lets hear the "advocates" proclaim
>>> how Linux has something that rivals core animation because of this
>>> dead project.
>
> Well if anyone is actually interested in Core Animation for Linux/X then
> I'm sure somebody will pick up the baton and run with it. The fact that
> there's a whole community of developers working on compiz, but only one
> guy showing a passing interest in Core Animation, speaks volumes about
> how low that level of interest is. Nonetheless, because it is (or will
> be) Free Software then anyone who really wants to can work on it.

I agree, in general.  Free software does not cover /every/ bit of
proprietary functionality, though, as you note.  There will always be
some function that is a "deal killer" for a sufficiently unmotivated
potential convert to Linux.

> Maybe "Zek" could do it, since he doesn't seem to do much else besides
> bitch about an OS he doesn't even use, much less develop for.

Oh, I think Zeke uses Linux.  To what extent and to what purpose, who
knows?  Or cares, really.  If he's talking sh*t, he'll get some static.
Otherwise, positive contributions to the general knowledge around here
are sorely needed.

-- 
All articles that coruscate with resplendence are not truly auriferous.
0
linonut (8350)
10/22/2008 4:28:30 PM
Reply:

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