f



{News] IBM chooses embedded Windows OS for new point of sale systems, rejects Linux

http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html

"Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew by 
250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found that 63 
percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded operating 
system for their next POS purchase."

Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas! 

0
acdc (4867)
2/27/2008 8:31:29 PM
comp.os.linux.advocacy 124139 articles. 3 followers. Post Follow

33 Replies
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"amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>
> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded 
> operating system for their next POS purchase."
>
> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!


But isn't IBM this big linux champion?
But isn't IBM doing all good things linux?
But isn't IBM familiar with Linux and anti-MS?
But isn't Linux better than Windows and doesn't IBM know that?

But... but... but....

It looks like linux fell on it's face again. One of the largest companies in 
the world just snubbed linux and went with Microsoft. Despite Linux being 
free.





-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
abdul1 (6)
2/27/2008 8:36:43 PM
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:36:43 -0500, Abdul Bonnatari wrote:

> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>
>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded 
>> operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>
>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
> 
> 
> But isn't IBM this big linux champion?
> But isn't IBM doing all good things linux?
> But isn't IBM familiar with Linux and anti-MS?
> But isn't Linux better than Windows and doesn't IBM know that?
> 
> But... but... but....
> 
> It looks like linux fell on it's face again. One of the largest companies in 
> the world just snubbed linux and went with Microsoft. Despite Linux being 
> free.

I've said it for years.
Watch out for IBM, Linux advocates, because they are going to screw the
Linux community.

And they are just get started....


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/27/2008 8:42:39 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1hpdx1annbpie.18ljjbnxay2qg$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:36:43 -0500, Abdul Bonnatari wrote:
>
>> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message
>> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>>
>>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the 
>>> retail
>>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total
>>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew
>>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found
>>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows 
>>> Embedded
>>> operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>>
>>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
>>
>>
>> But isn't IBM this big linux champion?
>> But isn't IBM doing all good things linux?
>> But isn't IBM familiar with Linux and anti-MS?
>> But isn't Linux better than Windows and doesn't IBM know that?
>>
>> But... but... but....
>>
>> It looks like linux fell on it's face again. One of the largest companies 
>> in
>> the world just snubbed linux and went with Microsoft. Despite Linux being
>> free.
>
> I've said it for years.
> Watch out for IBM, Linux advocates, because they are going to screw the
> Linux community.
>
> And they are just get started....

IBM doesn't give a crap about linux. Neither does Google. Both only care 
about linux as much as it helps them make money.

IBM, Google, Redhat and all are in this for the money. That's the -only- 
reason. And I have it  from a reliable source that Roy Schestowitz is into 
'advocacy' only for the money. Microsoft doesn't hire idiots and he was too 
stupid to work for them. But a flunky like Schestowitz was able to get a 
low-level spammer job "advocating" linux. Spamming and generating hits to 
his personal website helps pay the bills for Schestowitz.




>
> -- 
> Moshe Goldfarb
> Collector of soaps from around the globe.
> Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
> http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/ 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
abdul1 (6)
2/27/2008 10:39:21 PM
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb
<brick.n.straw@gmail.com>
 wrote
on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:42:39 -0500
<1hpdx1annbpie.18ljjbnxay2qg$.dlg@40tude.net>:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:36:43 -0500, Abdul Bonnatari wrote:
>
>> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
>> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>>
>>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
>>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
>>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
>>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
>>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded 
>>> operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>>
>>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
>> 
>> 
>> But isn't IBM this big linux champion?

No.  They use Linux to their ends; the most obvious examples I've
seen are in their z series systems, and apparently they play
some interesting games.  Linux is free - but the underlying OS,
named, naturally enough, zOS, costs $50k.

>> But isn't IBM doing all good things linux?

No.  I'm not sure *what* they're doing but they're far from the
sole contributor to the OSS cause ... and I don't know who is
contributing to the Linux kernel proper.

>> But isn't IBM familiar with Linux and anti-MS?

No.  Small parts of IBM might be familiar with the z390
syscalls, but that's about it.  Many of the rest might be
somewhat knowledgable about OSS in general.

I'll admit I don't know how IBM feels about Microsoft, and
such a question is rather broad anyway, since corporations
don't have feelings (though their chief officers most
certainly do).

>> But isn't Linux better than Windows and doesn't IBM know that?

No.  NO.  NO!

Linux is not better than Windows.  It's merely different.  For
those that can use it it's indeed better, but for those that
cannot it makes little difference, unless one throws in such
things as security considerations, which grow increasingly
irrelevant as NATs dominate the networking landscape.

In brief: it depends who's evaluating.

Besides, no one uses Linux directly.  Haven't you all figured that
out by now?  I'd love to see Gentoo encapsulate FreeBSD, for example,
and there are hints Gentoo is working with HURD...though it's a slow
process apparently.

>> 
>> But... but... but....
>> 
>> It looks like linux fell on it's face again. One of the largest companies in 
>> the world just snubbed linux and went with Microsoft. Despite Linux being 
>> free.

The critera should be "best product for the best price".
Linux does not always meet that criteria, especially with
the value-add Microsoft has been putting into Office.
Granted, many will quibble on this, but it's clear the two
aren't directly comparable; one either has to substitute
OpenOffice for Linux and at least compare oranges and
kumquats (as opposed to oranges and concrete slabs), or
implement entire systems using a combination of products,
and evaluate those systems.

>
> I've said it for years.
> Watch out for IBM, Linux advocates, because they are going to screw the
> Linux community.
>
> And they are just get started....
>

Of course.  We should all switch to Windows Vista instead.
At least that way we know who's screwing us.

:-)

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of
elderberries!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
ewill5 (11075)
2/27/2008 10:44:50 PM
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:39:21 -0500, Abdul Bonnatari wrote:


> 
> IBM doesn't give a crap about linux. Neither does Google. Both only care
> about linux as much as it helps them make money.
> 
> IBM, Google, Redhat and all are in this for the money. That's the -only-
> reason. 

That's how the open-source model is *supposed* to work, silly. They keep
scratching our backs to keep us scratching theirs (and vice-versa).

> And I have it  from a reliable source that Roy Schestowitz is
> into 'advocacy' only for the money. Microsoft doesn't hire idiots and he
> was too stupid to work for them. But a flunky like Schestowitz was able
> to get a low-level spammer job "advocating" linux. Spamming and
> generating hits to his personal website helps pay the bills for
> Schestowitz.

Roy's put a lot of work into his daily [News] postings and endured some
very nasty personal attacks here and in Real Life by the Linux-hating
faction. His posts are topical and easily filtered - unlike, say,
certain nym-shifting assholes who come here only to troll. Personally, I
hope he *is* picking up a little change on the deal.
0
nope6917 (122)
2/28/2008 1:34:58 AM
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:44:50 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Moshe Goldfarb
> <brick.n.straw@gmail.com>
>  wrote
> on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:42:39 -0500
> <1hpdx1annbpie.18ljjbnxay2qg$.dlg@40tude.net>:
>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:36:43 -0500, Abdul Bonnatari wrote:
>>
>>> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
>>> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>>>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>>>
>>>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
>>>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
>>>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
>>>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
>>>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded 
>>>> operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>>>
>>>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But isn't IBM this big linux champion?
> 
> No.  They use Linux to their ends; the most obvious examples I've
> seen are in their z series systems, and apparently they play
> some interesting games.  Linux is free - but the underlying OS,
> named, naturally enough, zOS, costs $50k.

They are also making a bundle selling Linux services.

>>> But isn't IBM doing all good things linux?
> 
> No.  I'm not sure *what* they're doing but they're far from the
> sole contributor to the OSS cause ... and I don't know who is
> contributing to the Linux kernel proper.

I'm sure IBM is doing some good things, but their ultimate motive is purely
to make money off the work of the OSS programmers.

 
>>> But isn't IBM familiar with Linux and anti-MS?
> 
> No.  Small parts of IBM might be familiar with the z390
> syscalls, but that's about it.  Many of the rest might be
> somewhat knowledgable about OSS in general.

IBM is a clusterfuck,
The days of IBM employees making, building,designing, programming every
part of IBM machines are long gone.
It's mostly contract work farmed out to India etc.
 
> I'll admit I don't know how IBM feels about Microsoft, and
> such a question is rather broad anyway, since corporations
> don't have feelings (though their chief officers most
> certainly do).

IBM hates Microsoft, see OS/2 for details, but IBM knows how to generate
money and keep clients happy.

 
>>> But isn't Linux better than Windows and doesn't IBM know that?
> 



-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/28/2008 3:08:57 AM
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

> Linux is not better than Windows. �It's merely different. �For
> those that can use it it's indeed better, but for those that
> cannot it makes little difference, unless one throws in such
> things as security considerations, which grow increasingly
> irrelevant as NATs dominate the networking landscape.

Network address translation is a solution to the reducing pool of ipv4 (32
bit) free addresses. According to some sources:

http://tinyurl.com/2lngqf

We are due to run out of addresses perhaps in only 2 years. The "new" ipv6
provides a 128 bit address space and has the capability to provide every
device on the internet with its own public address. If every device has a
public address then security considerations once again become relevant.

-- 
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power
0
ZekeGregory (6440)
2/28/2008 10:33:11 AM
"amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>
> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows 
> Embedded operating system for their next POS purchase."
>
> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!



Notice the "run and hide" tactic of the advocates once again.

When some overpriced, underperforming and completely /unviable/  'open 
source' graphics card is released they treat it as being big news. Which it 
isn't. But one of the worlds largest companies scoffing Linux and going 
with Windows for millions of point-of-sale terminals really *IS* a big 
deal.

As usual the zealots have no answer for this. So they are out searching the 
web for more linux powered "iPod killers" to crow about.




-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
tonydrudge (87)
2/28/2008 12:40:02 PM
* Gregory Shearman peremptorily fired off this memo:

> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
>> Linux is not better than Windows. �It's merely different. �For
>> those that can use it it's indeed better, but for those that
>> cannot it makes little difference, unless one throws in such
>> things as security considerations, which grow increasingly
>> irrelevant as NATs dominate the networking landscape.
>
> Network address translation is a solution to the reducing pool of ipv4 (32
> bit) free addresses. According to some sources:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2lngqf
>
> We are due to run out of addresses perhaps in only 2 years. The "new" ipv6
> provides a 128 bit address space and has the capability to provide every
> device on the internet with its own public address. If every device has a
> public address then security considerations once again become relevant.

The clients are all supporting IPv6, as far as I know.  But what about
the public servers?

-- 
It's fine to celebrate success but it is more important to heed the lessons
of failure.
   -- Bill Gates
0
linonut (8350)
2/28/2008 12:42:07 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:163mcozwnt7ux$.7q10brkljfpr$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> IBM hates Microsoft, see OS/2 for details, but IBM knows how to generate
> money and keep clients happy.

That is surely an overly broad statement.  I would bet that those whose 
careers were intertwined with OS/2 success are not fond of Mr. Softee, but 
they are most likely gone from the scene in Armonk.  IBM sells a very large 
amount of Windows dependent goods and services each year and those people 
are most likely Microsoft fans.  That is the situation that I am in 
personally even though there are numerous folk in our organization who 
either love Linux, hate Microsoft, or both.

Linux was a godsend for IBM marketing a number of years ago and it allowed 
them to make some severe price moves against Sun.  They offered a number of 
their server products with Linux at a price substantially lower than Sun's 
price for equivalent functionality and capacity and, at the same time, kept 
their pricing for AIX versions at original or even higher levels.  This 
placates their existing customers who  did not have to be effectively told 
that IBM had been ripping them off for years and let IBM continue to pretend 
that AIX was the cat's ass.

IBM makes their money from handholding their good customers and charging 
them an acceptable fee for the service.  IBM solves many of their customer's 
varied business problems with eager dispatch and their customers benefit 
from that service moreso than they lose from making payments.  That is the 
essence of technical product marketing, i.e. something for everyone.  All 
smiles all around.  Linux is just another arrow in their quiver and useful 
in many situations.  It would seem that Microsoft is doing much the same 
thing, now selling Novell's Linux along with Windows products and system 
engineering services. 

0
acdc (4867)
2/28/2008 2:42:16 PM
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:40:02 -0500, Tony Drudge wrote:

> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>
>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows 
>> Embedded operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>
>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
> 
> 
> 
> Notice the "run and hide" tactic of the advocates once again.
> 
> When some overpriced, underperforming and completely /unviable/  'open 
> source' graphics card is released they treat it as being big news. Which it 
> isn't. But one of the worlds largest companies scoffing Linux and going 
> with Windows for millions of point-of-sale terminals really *IS* a big 
> deal.
> 
> As usual the zealots have no answer for this. So they are out searching the 
> web for more linux powered "iPod killers" to crow about.


But didn't the village of Schestomania convert all of it's office systems
to Linux last year?

All 10 of them....

In the Linux world that IS big news.



-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/28/2008 5:25:22 PM
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:42:16 -0500, amicus_curious wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:163mcozwnt7ux$.7q10brkljfpr$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>
>> IBM hates Microsoft, see OS/2 for details, but IBM knows how to generate
>> money and keep clients happy.
> 
> That is surely an overly broad statement.  I would bet that those whose 
> careers were intertwined with OS/2 success are not fond of Mr. Softee, but 
> they are most likely gone from the scene in Armonk.  IBM sells a very large 
> amount of Windows dependent goods and services each year and those people 
> are most likely Microsoft fans.  That is the situation that I am in 
> personally even though there are numerous folk in our organization who 
> either love Linux, hate Microsoft, or both.

IBM has no love for Microsodt but like I said, they know how to make a buck
and selling and supporting Windows products is the way.
 
> Linux was a godsend for IBM marketing a number of years ago and it allowed 
> them to make some severe price moves against Sun.  They offered a number of 
> their server products with Linux at a price substantially lower than Sun's 
> price for equivalent functionality and capacity and, at the same time, kept 
> their pricing for AIX versions at original or even higher levels.  This 
> placates their existing customers who  did not have to be effectively told 
> that IBM had been ripping them off for years and let IBM continue to pretend 
> that AIX was the cat's ass.

That and Linux helped resurrect the mainframe via LPAR and VM running Linux
as well as other OS.

Also, AIX is designed for mission critical systems and IBM markets it as
such.
The difference between Linux and AIX boils down to RAS, in IBM Speak.
Reliability Availability and Serviceability.

The second two are big ones.

On IBM hardware running Linux vs Aix, many components that are concurrent
repairs, meaning the system can stay up, are NOT concurrent when using
Linux but are when using AIX.

That is a biggie for 5 nines customers.

The Linux community try to ignore that fact.


> IBM makes their money from handholding their good customers and charging 
> them an acceptable fee for the service.  IBM solves many of their customer's 
> varied business problems with eager dispatch and their customers benefit 
> from that service moreso than they lose from making payments.  That is the 
> essence of technical product marketing, i.e. something for everyone.  All 
> smiles all around.  Linux is just another arrow in their quiver and useful 
> in many situations.  It would seem that Microsoft is doing much the same 
> thing, now selling Novell's Linux along with Windows products and system 
> engineering services.

For all of it's faults, IBM is best of breed when it comes to customer
service.


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/28/2008 5:30:35 PM
"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:115vt92e8sgbq.1jwwc463fxde3$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:40:02 -0500, Tony Drudge wrote:
>
>> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message
>> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>>
>>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the 
>>> retail
>>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total
>>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew
>>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found
>>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows
>>> Embedded operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>>
>>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
>>
>>
>>
>> Notice the "run and hide" tactic of the advocates once again.
>>
>> When some overpriced, underperforming and completely /unviable/  'open
>> source' graphics card is released they treat it as being big news. Which 
>> it
>> isn't. But one of the worlds largest companies scoffing Linux and going
>> with Windows for millions of point-of-sale terminals really *IS* a big
>> deal.
>>
>> As usual the zealots have no answer for this. So they are out searching 
>> the
>> web for more linux powered "iPod killers" to crow about.
>
>


> But didn't the village of Schestomania convert all of it's
> office systems to Linux last year?
>
> All 10 of them....

They started to and have already spent $11.5 million dollars on the project. 
So far they have 2 of the 10 laptops converted to linux. The remaining 
laptops still run Windows but they have installed Firefox on a few of them.

Schestomania is using Munich as their model for conversion.



> In the Linux world that IS big news.

In the village of the blind the one-eyed man is king.


>
> -- 
> Moshe Goldfarb
> Collector of soaps from around the globe.
> Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
> http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/





-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
kirk6207 (132)
2/28/2008 5:30:59 PM
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:30:59 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:115vt92e8sgbq.1jwwc463fxde3$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:40:02 -0500, Tony Drudge wrote:
>>
>>> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message
>>> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>>>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>>>
>>>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the 
>>>> retail
>>>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total
>>>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew
>>>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found
>>>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows
>>>> Embedded operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>>>
>>>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Notice the "run and hide" tactic of the advocates once again.
>>>
>>> When some overpriced, underperforming and completely /unviable/  'open
>>> source' graphics card is released they treat it as being big news. Which 
>>> it
>>> isn't. But one of the worlds largest companies scoffing Linux and going
>>> with Windows for millions of point-of-sale terminals really *IS* a big
>>> deal.
>>>
>>> As usual the zealots have no answer for this. So they are out searching 
>>> the
>>> web for more linux powered "iPod killers" to crow about.
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> But didn't the village of Schestomania convert all of it's
>> office systems to Linux last year?
>>
>> All 10 of them....
> 
> They started to and have already spent $11.5 million dollars on the project. 
> So far they have 2 of the 10 laptops converted to linux. The remaining 
> laptops still run Windows but they have installed Firefox on a few of them.
> 
> Schestomania is using Munich as their model for conversion.
> 
> 
> 
>> In the Linux world that IS big news.
> 
> In the village of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
> 
> 
>>
>> -- 
>> Moshe Goldfarb
>> Collector of soaps from around the globe.
>> Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
>> http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

excellent!!

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/28/2008 7:32:46 PM
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Gregory Shearman
<ZekeGregory@netscape.net>
 wrote
on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:33:11 +1100
<2022199.pcNCj4LVLx@netscape.net>:
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
>> Linux is not better than Windows. �It's merely different. �For
>> those that can use it it's indeed better, but for those that
>> cannot it makes little difference, unless one throws in such
>> things as security considerations, which grow increasingly
>> irrelevant as NATs dominate the networking landscape.
>
> Network address translation is a solution to the reducing pool of ipv4 (32
> bit) free addresses. According to some sources:

It also -- perhaps accidentally, perhaps by design --
eliminates all unsolicited packet attacks.  Briefly
put, the NAT translates an internal network address
(say, 192.168.1.4) to an outside network address (say
10.101.202.303 [*] for the sake of argument), and does
port management.  If a web browser on 192.168.1.4 requests
a socket to open on 64.236.16.20 [+], port 80, the NAT
device will intercept that request and reissue the request
using 10.101.202.303.  Any responses will be forwarded
back to the internal network.  User gets a webpage with
the news of the day (from CNN's perspective, anyway) and
notices no real difference unless he is also hanging out
a socket (e.g., Apache or JBoss) and expects people to
connect to it.  [%]

Now suppose a virus does a little creative sniffing,
then tries to attack port 10.101.202.303 on port 137.
Oops!  NAT drops the packet on the floor.  No infection
occurs; even Windows 95 is perfectly safe.

Of course NAT doesn't do much against phishing and pharming
and email clicklink attacks.

>
> http://tinyurl.com/2lngqf
>
> We are due to run out of addresses perhaps in only 2 years. The "new" ipv6
> provides a 128 bit address space and has the capability to provide every
> device on the internet with its own public address. If every device has a
> public address then security considerations once again become relevant.
>

I don't see that happening, actually -- mostly because
NATs are so cheap.  But we'll see.

[*] actually, this is not a routable address either; I use it
    solely for illustrative purposes.
[+] one of www.cnn.com's servers, a rather large news provider
    based in Atlanta.
[%] Presumably one can open a masquerading port on most devices,
    via appropriate commands/Webpage requests.  Requests to that
    port will go to a designated machine, which is hopefully
    sufficiently secure.  (Note that different ports can be scattered
    across different machines.)

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #7878218:
class C { private: virtual void stupid() = 0; };

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
ewill5 (11075)
2/28/2008 8:12:58 PM
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Linonut
<linonut@bollsouth.nut>
 wrote
on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:42:07 -0500
<l_xxj.104296$N67.65987@bignews5.bellsouth.net>:
> * Gregory Shearman peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>
>>> Linux is not better than Windows. �It's merely different. �For
>>> those that can use it it's indeed better, but for those that
>>> cannot it makes little difference, unless one throws in such
>>> things as security considerations, which grow increasingly
>>> irrelevant as NATs dominate the networking landscape.
>>
>> Network address translation is a solution to the reducing pool of ipv4 (32
>> bit) free addresses. According to some sources:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2lngqf
>>
>> We are due to run out of addresses perhaps in only 2 years. The "new" ipv6
>> provides a 128 bit address space and has the capability to provide every
>> device on the internet with its own public address. If every device has a
>> public address then security considerations once again become relevant.
>
> The clients are all supporting IPv6, as far as I know.  But what about
> the public servers?
>

What about the routers as well?  It's going to be interesting.

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #7878218:
class C { private: virtual void stupid() = 0; };

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
ewill5 (11075)
2/28/2008 8:13:30 PM
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:30:59 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:

> In the village of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

Not after dark he isn't. :)
0
nope6917 (122)
2/28/2008 8:58:52 PM
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, El Tux
<nope@spamsucks.invalid>
 wrote
on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:58:52 -0000
<13se84c4k0esbce@news.supernews.com>:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:30:59 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
>
>> In the village of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
>
> Not after dark he isn't. :)

Yes he is.  Flashlights/torches, burning brand torches,
or fires; take your pick.

Granted, the blind might feel the heat from the last two.

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Windows.  Multi-platform(1), multi-tasking(1), multi-user(1).
(1) if one defines "multi" as "exactly one".

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
ewill5 (11075)
2/28/2008 9:44:42 PM
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:44:42 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, El Tux
> <nope@spamsucks.invalid>
>  wrote
> on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:58:52 -0000
> <13se84c4k0esbce@news.supernews.com>:
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:30:59 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
>>
>>> In the village of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
>>
>> Not after dark he isn't. :)
> 
> Yes he is.  Flashlights/torches, burning brand torches, or fires; take
> your pick.

Well if he can have flashlights, the village of the blind can have tasers.

> Granted, the blind might feel the heat from the last two.

Or hear the fire crackling. 

I used to have a girlfriend who was blind. It was pretty weird coming
home late to find her in the kitchen preparing dinner with all the
lights off. It took awhile to get used to waking up in the middle of the
night and hearing her turning pages next to me. It doesn't sound all
that odd to talk about someone reading braille in the dark, but the
*experience* goes against our ingrained sensibilities.
0
nope6917 (122)
2/29/2008 12:19:25 AM
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:


> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind. 

Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.

What happened?
One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran away?


-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/29/2008 12:22:30 AM
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, El Tux
<nope@spamsucks.invalid>
 wrote
on Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000
<13sejsd67g27975@news.supernews.com>:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:44:42 -0800, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, El Tux
>> <nope@spamsucks.invalid>
>>  wrote
>> on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:58:52 -0000
>> <13se84c4k0esbce@news.supernews.com>:
>>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:30:59 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
>>>
>>>> In the village of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
>>>
>>> Not after dark he isn't. :)
>> 
>> Yes he is.  Flashlights/torches, burning brand torches, or fires; take
>> your pick.
>
> Well if he can have flashlights, the village of the blind can have tasers.

True.

>
>> Granted, the blind might feel the heat from the last two.
>
> Or hear the fire crackling. 
>
> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind. It was pretty weird coming
> home late to find her in the kitchen preparing dinner with all the
> lights off. It took awhile to get used to waking up in the middle of the
> night and hearing her turning pages next to me. It doesn't sound all
> that odd to talk about someone reading braille in the dark, but the
> *experience* goes against our ingrained sensibilities.

Interesting, though hardly surprising if one thinks
about it; if she doesn't need light, why turn it on? ;-)
I'll admit, she is king (or rather queen) in that case;
you're at a slight disadvantage perhaps.  Then again, with
some care one might be able to wear a blindfold and hear
the subtle echoes of one's footsteps as they hit a wall,
counter, etc., especially in one's own house or apartment.
And of course she wouldn't be able to see a targeting
laser for a high-tech sniperscope pistol or rifle, though
she might hear the shooter if he's close enough (assuming
anyone's stupid enough to shoot at a blind person anyway,
but there's a few sick people out there).

I agree that it would take some getting used to.

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Warning: This encrypted signature is a dangerous munition.
Please notify the US government immediately upon reception.
0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 ...

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
ewill5 (11075)
2/29/2008 2:49:39 AM
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
> 
> 
>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind. 
> 
> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
> 
> What happened?
> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran away?

You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of humanity.

-- 
Kier

0
vallon (8614)
2/29/2008 9:14:46 AM
Kier wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind.
>> 
>> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>> 
>> What happened?
>> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran away?
> 
> You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of humanity.
> 

Please leave humanity out of this
-- 
Like being presumed a thief and a liar before using a product?
If so, use M$ XP

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
2/29/2008 10:04:54 AM
"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1hyquodskr0ur$.kvipsve0dl1j$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>
>
>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind.
>
> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>
> What happened?
> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran away?

Blind people still have their sense of smell.

Have you seen what some of these 'open sores' basement dwellers actually 
look like?



> -- 
> Moshe Goldfarb
> Collector of soaps from around the globe.
> Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
> http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/ 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
tonydrudge (87)
2/29/2008 12:38:42 PM
Kier wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind.
>>
>> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>>
>> What happened?
>> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran
>> away?
>
> You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of
> humanity.

That's a joke.  Some of the "advocates" here on cola - including you Kursing 
Kier - are the nastiest pieces of trash I've come across online.



0
nospam11 (18349)
2/29/2008 12:39:37 PM
Kier <vallon@tiscali.co.uk> writes:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind. 
>> 
>> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>> 
>> What happened?
>> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran away?
>
> You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of
> humanity.

So you'll be going back to chastise Peter Kohlmann and Tattoo "hung like
a horse" Vampire for their earlier comments I suppose?
0
hadronquark2 (7213)
2/29/2008 1:49:24 PM
amicus_curious wrote:
> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
> 
> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the 
> retail market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the 
> total number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North 
> American grew by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, 
> IHL also found that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a 
> Windows Embedded operating system for their next POS purchase."
> 
> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!

Why do you care?

-- 
Rick
0
none11 (12193)
2/29/2008 1:52:28 PM
Abdul Bonnatari wrote:
> "amicus_curious" <ACDC@sti.net> wrote in message 
> news:47c5c8b2$0$2893$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com...
>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>
>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
>> by 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found 
>> that 63 percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded 
>> operating system for their next POS purchase."
>>
>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
> 
> 
> But isn't IBM this big linux champion?

In certain arenas, yes. In others, no.

> But isn't IBM doing all good things linux?

What?

> But isn't IBM familiar with Linux and anti-MS?

Yes, and no... IBM is pro-IBM.

> But isn't Linux better than Windows and doesn't IBM know that?

For some things, and yes.

> 
> But... but... but....
> 
> It looks like linux fell on it's face again. One of the largest companies in 
> the world just snubbed linux and went with Microsoft. Despite Linux being 
> free.
> 
No, it looks like you are just a troll try to stir up trouble.


-- 
Rick
0
none11 (12193)
2/29/2008 1:53:51 PM
* amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:

> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>
> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail 
> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total 
> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew by 
> 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found that 63 
> percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded operating 
> system for their next POS purchase."
>
> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas! 

I doubt it, since IBM uses Linux a lot already.

More likely, Microsoft gave them a hell of a deal.

This is funny (inadvertently):

   In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found that 63 percent of
   retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded
   operating system for their next POS purchase.

<audience laughs>

-- 
The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to
factor large prime numbers.
   -- Bill Gates, The Road Ahead (1995), hardcover edition (corrected in
      paperback)
0
linonut (8350)
2/29/2008 3:33:45 PM
"Linonut" <linonut@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message 
news:fBVxj.578$pp6.114@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>* amicus_curious peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> http://www.ddj.com/blog/embeddedblog/archives/2008/02/microsoft_ibm_t.html
>>
>> "Microsoft also announced strong growth of Windows Embedded in the retail
>> market. According to a recent report published by IHL Group, the total
>> number of Windows Embedded Point of Service users in North American grew 
>> by
>> 250 percent in 2007. In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found that 
>> 63
>> percent of retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded 
>> operating
>> system for their next POS purchase."
>>
>> Looks like Linux is just a bridesmaid once again.  Alas!
>
> I doubt it, since IBM uses Linux a lot already.
>
> More likely, Microsoft gave them a hell of a deal.

More likely IBM selected the tool that was the best fit for the job.

If someone needs a "hammer" they're not going to buy a "wrench" just because 
it's on sale.



> This is funny (inadvertently):
>
>   In a second study with RIS News, IHL also found that 63 percent of
>   retailers were seriously considering a Windows Embedded
>   operating system for their next POS purchase.
>
> <audience laughs>

Was the audience a bunch of 6th graders who also think that "poopy" is a 
funny word?


> -- 
> The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way 
> to
> factor large prime numbers.
>   -- Bill Gates, The Road Ahead (1995), hardcover edition (corrected in
>      paperback) 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

0
kirk6207 (132)
2/29/2008 3:51:37 PM
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:14:46 +0000, Kier wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind.
>> 
>> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>> 
>> What happened?
>> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran
>> away?
> 
> You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of humanity.

I'm fairly well convinced that flatty is a manic-depressive. You can see
the mood swings pretty clearly if you look at his posts over a period of
months. Twenty years ago I'd have cut him some slack for it, but they
have all kinds of effective medications nowadays. The holdup isn't lack
of a cure, but convincing a manic-depressive to stay on meds that
suppress that oh-so-fun manic phase. The guy clearly needs a little help
here and I know we don't all want to become enablers. So let's all just
ignore him until he goes back on his meds...

0
nope6917 (122)
2/29/2008 4:38:02 PM
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:14:46 +0000, Kier wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind. 
>> 
>> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>> 
>> What happened?
>> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran away?
> 
> You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of humanity.

It was meant in jest.
I surely did not mean to make fun of blind people.
Sorry if it came across that way.

-- 
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
0
brick.n.straw (6130)
2/29/2008 5:57:58 PM
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:39:37 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Kier wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:22:30 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:19:25 -0000, El Tux wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I used to have a girlfriend who was blind.
>>>
>>> Sounds like the perfect girl for a Linux dweeb.
>>>
>>> What happened?
>>> One of her friends who could see described you to her and she ran
>>> away?
>>
>> You know what, flatty, you're a really disgusting specimen of
>> humanity.
> 
> That's a joke.  Some of the "advocates" here on cola - including you Kursing 
> Kier - are the nastiest pieces of trash I've come across online.

Really? Then you've lived a very sheltered life. And where are you when
flatfish posts his filthy lies and smears, eh? Nowhere to be seen.

-- 
Kier

0
vallon (8614)
2/29/2008 11:11:09 PM
Reply:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Salix OS 13.0.2 Gets 64-bit Edition ,----[ Quote ] | George Vlahavas from the Salix OS development | team proudly announced two days before | Christmas that Salix 13.0.2 was available for | download on mirrors worldwide. The good news | for all the fans of this Slackware-based | Linux distribution is that it now has a 64- | bit edition, which is backwards compatible | with the Slackware64 operating system. | Salix64 offers an easier way to install the | XFCE desktop environment, and a software | repository with lots of packages. The Sali...

[News] UNIX/Linux Called Real OS; Windows "Insufficient OS"
Why *I* like Linux and Unix (and Mac OS X too!) ,----[ Quote ] | But there's more. There's what we call the "Unix Philosophy", which is that | small tools should do one thing and do it well, while being designed so that | they can get whatever input they need from the output of something else and | vice versa. It's pipelines, stringing together little tools to get big | results. Windows programs just are NOT written with that in mind - if they do | allow command line use at all, they spit out too much on the output side and | aren't even smart enough to do so o...

[News] New GNU/Linux Releases: PC/OS 2009v2, Greenie Linux (Slovakia)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 PC/OS 2009v2a Released ,----[ Quote ] | PC/OS 2009v2a has been released for the general public. This release fixes | many of the application stability issues that users had with PC/OS 2009v2. | With this release we went ahead and and installed all updates so all security | updates since PC/OS 2009v2 has been released have been applied. The changes | to PC/OS 2009v2a application wise are common across all releases except one | application inclusion and one removal. `---- http://www.pc-os.org/2009/03/pcos-2009v2a-released.html Greenie 4...

[News] New Reasons Why Linux Beats Both Mac OS and Windows
6 Reasons Why Linux Beats Windows & Mac OSX Hands Down ,----[ Gist ] | 1. Linux is completely open. | | 2. The software that runs on it is also open. | | 3. Linux runs great on just about any platform. | | 4. You can buy a Linux desktop from Dell (or Walmart!). | | 5. Linux has become nearly idiot-proof for basic computing tasks. | | 6. The desktop computer is dying anyway. `---- http://www.dailytechnobabble.com/2007/11/05/6-reasons-why-linux-beats-windows-mac-osx-hands-down/ http://tinyurl.com/328lsb Points (4) and (6) can be considered new. Both are valid points. Related: Five...

[News] [Linux] New User Very Impressed with Linux and Linux Gaming (Not So with Windows Vista)
Linux FPS [PCLinuxOS] ,----[ Quote ] | A few weeks ago I installed PCLinuxOS 2007 and I'm very impressed | with it. One of the things I like is their package manager--everything | is there, you don't need to add any extra repositories (a popular | distro that starts with "U" infuriates me with all the mucking | around you have to do), and there are never any issues with | unresolved dependencies. | | Anyway, last week I downloaded through the package manager a | game called Sauerbraten. It's a great multi player FPS. It's | completely free and very entertainin...

Web resources about - {News] IBM chooses embedded Windows OS for new point of sale systems, rejects Linux - comp.os.linux.advocacy

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