f



[News] New Releases of GNU/Linux: GParted 0.4.7-1, Caos 1.0.25, Baltix 4.1

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Hash: SHA1

GParted 0.4.7-1

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php


Caos 1.0.25

http://www.caoslinux.org/


Baltix 4.1

http://baltix.akl.lt/


Recent:

Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux

,----[ Quote ]
| Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should pool
| their resources behind a single distribution.
`----

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html
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0
newsgroups3 (79677)
10/20/2009 3:52:48 PM
comp.os.linux.advocacy 124139 articles. 3 followers. Post Follow

40 Replies
1290 Views

Similar Articles

[PageSpeed] 52

Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>Baltix 4.1
>http://baltix.akl.lt/

http://distrowatch.com/baltix
DEB-based.  Integrates WINE
Only speaks Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, and Norwegian.

http://distrowatch.com/bee
RPM-based.  Integrates WINE.
Speaks French, English, Arabic, and Amazigh.
First (and only) release: January 2009.
0
jeffm_ (1319)
10/20/2009 6:35:47 PM
"Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Recent:
>
> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should 
> pool
> | their resources behind a single distribution.
> `----
>
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html


Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot of 
middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having 400+ 
distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.

One single distro? - No.
400+ distros? - Also no.





0
not-zeke (902)
10/20/2009 6:44:29 PM
Ezekiel wrote:
>there's a lot of middle ground between having just one "single distro"
>and having 400+ distros
>most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
>
....and app selection.

>One single distro? - No.
>400+ distros? - Also no.

Well, there's only about, what, 40 unique bloodlines
and, as you say, the rest are tweaked versions of those.
Think of those as a friend who figured out a hairy Windoze config
and after doing all the work
gave you a *.REG so that you don't have to bust your hump.

It's all in your perspective really.

....and if installs of Windoze-compatible apps
weren't so damned cumbersome with the babysitting thing,
I might be able to make an analogy for scripted installs.
0
jeffm_ (1319)
10/20/2009 7:08:23 PM
"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message 
news:7de010ef-e9d0-480c-a0b8-b326e88d6876@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>>there's a lot of middle ground between having just one "single distro"
>>and having 400+ distros
>>most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
>>
> ...and app selection.

The app selection is irrelevant to me. Whatever apps a user wants they can 
download from the repository. I don't see any scenario where a user really 
wants to run "Distro A" but they ended up going with Distro B because it 
included some app by default.


>>One single distro? - No.
>>400+ distros? - Also no.
>
> Well, there's only about, what, 40 unique bloodlines
> and, as you say, the rest are tweaked versions of those.

Pretty much - think "Hannah Montana Linux" as an example where it's 
basically a stock distro (I think it was based on Ubuntu) where they merely 
added some wallpaper and icons and voilla'  -  it's now a new distro.



> It's all in your perspective really.

It's not my perspective that matters. It's the perspective of new users who 
see 400+ different distros and the perspective of device manufacturers who 
don't have the resources to support 100's of distros and dozens of different 
package managers.



0
not-zeke (902)
10/20/2009 7:18:44 PM
On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> Recent:
>>
>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should 
>> pool
>> | their resources behind a single distribution.
>> `----
>>
>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html
>
>
> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot of 
> middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having 400+ 
> distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.

....odd then that you continually parrot the 400 or 500 number along with
all of the other trolls.

[deletia]

-- 
    Apple: Because only pirates are power users.                     |||
                                                                    / | \
0
jedi (14754)
10/20/2009 7:29:24 PM
>>Ezekiel wrote:
>>>400+ distros
>>>most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
>>>
>JeffM wrote:
>>...and app selection.
>>
Ezekiel wrote:
>Whatever apps a user wants
>they can download from the repository.
>
Gotta think outside *your* box.  People with fat pipes
forget that there are a lot of folks with limited bandwidth.
Getting everything in the first try
and being able to do that with a CD that gets passed around
makes life simpler for a significant number of folks.
(Hello, Mint, you old include-EVERYTHING distro, you.
Sabayon qualifies here too.)

....and I forgot to mention language suppport among the reasons.

>>It's all in your perspective really.
>>
>It's not my perspective that matters.
>
Don't demean yourself so; your opinion counts too.  8-)

>It's the perspective of new users
>
....who generally get the distro that their guru uses
so when there are questions, it's not a drudge.

>who see 400+ different distros
>
....then ask their friend/LUG/guru which to get
--perhaps even getting the disk from that source.
....and let's not forget the *test drive without installing* factor.
(Man, Pardus needs to get on the ball there
so it can be listed alongside Mint and Sabayon.)

>and the perspective of device manufacturers
>who don't have the resources to support 100's of distros
>and dozens of different package managers.
>
Now, the vendor angle is quasi-valid
--though I tend to think more in term of packaging apps here.
Of course, THIS has been around for quite some time:
http://google.com/search?q=Alien+Linux
0
jeffm_ (1319)
10/20/2009 7:49:48 PM
"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnhds3sk.8ir.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>
>>> Recent:
>>>
>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should
>>> pool
>>> | their resources behind a single distribution.
>>> `----
>>>
>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html
>>
>>
>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot of
>> middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having 400+
>> distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
>
> ...odd then that you continually parrot the 400 or 500 number along with
> all of the other trolls.

So now you're in denial that there are 100's of Linux distros?





0
not-zeke (902)
10/20/2009 8:14:47 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:44:29 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> Recent:
>>
>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should
>> pool
>> | their resources behind a single distribution. `----
>>
>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-
linux.html
> 
> 
> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot of
> middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having 400+
> distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
> 
> One single distro? - No.
> 400+ distros? - Also no.

Perhaps you should learn to count. Distrowatch.com counts 300 active 
distros - down from about 360 a year or so ago. Frankly I believe their 
numbers rather than yours. Of course, they have criteria for moving 
distros out of the active column, so it overstates the number somewhat. 
I'd also not count all the *buntus as separate distros like they do.
0
ray65 (5421)
10/20/2009 8:30:23 PM
> trolling fsckwit Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> who see 400+ different distros

Oh, do they "see" that many different distros, fsckwit?  Or do they
quickly learn, with just a modicum of research, that there's only a
handful of top distros that are generally recommended for desktop use
for newbies.

Stupid fsck.

>>and the perspective of device manufacturers
>>who don't have the resources to support 100's of distros
>>and dozens of different package managers.

Wrong again, fsckwit.  If something works with the few top variants,
e.g. Suse, Redhat, Debian, it will work on most all distros.

You sure are a dishonest POS, fsckwit.

0
chrisv (22840)
10/20/2009 8:36:07 PM
Ezekiel wrote:

> 
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> news:slrnhds3sk.8ir.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>
>>>> Recent:
>>>>
>>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>>
>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers
>>>> | should
>>>> pool
>>>> | their resources behind a single distribution.
>>>> `----
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-
linux.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot
>>> of middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having
>>> 400+ distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and
>>> themes.
>>
>> ...odd then that you continually parrot the 400 or 500 number along
>> with all of the other trolls.
> 
> So now you're in denial that there are 100's of Linux distros?

He is telling you that you are pulling numbers out of your arse. Which is 
exactly what you are doing
-- 
Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?

0
10/20/2009 8:37:23 PM
On 2009-10-20, the following emerged from the brain of Ezekiel:
>
> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message 
> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> Recent:
>>
>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should 
>> pool
>> | their resources behind a single distribution.
>> `----
>>
>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html
>
>
> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot of 
> middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having 400+ 
> distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.

You may think Linus is not intelligent, but I agree with him when he
says:

>"We have hundreds of distros, and a lot of them are really for niche
>markets. And you need that - simply because different markets simply
>have different requirements, and no single distro will take care of
>them all."

He's honest enough to present the flip side of the coin as well:

>However, he concedes that the competing distros do present problems.
>"It may all look a bit messy and complex, but I'd much rather have a
>multi-party system over a single-party one. Even if it's more
>complicated."

I agree with that too.

-- 
.... A solemn, unsmiling, sanctimonious old iceberg who looked like he
was waiting for a vacancy in the Trinity.
		-- Mark Twain
0
10/20/2009 9:01:55 PM
"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message 
news:7k6kuvF37fbpiU40@mid.individual.net...
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:44:29 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>
>>> Recent:
>>>
>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>
>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should
>>> pool
>>> | their resources behind a single distribution. `----
>>>
>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-
> linux.html
>>
>>
>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot of
>> middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having 400+
>> distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
>>
>> One single distro? - No.
>> 400+ distros? - Also no.
>
> Perhaps you should learn to count.

Perhaps you should make sure that you're actually correct before you start 
insinuating that I can't count?


> Distrowatch.com counts 300 active  distros

That's a very nice round number isn't it? Did it ever occur to you that when 
you look at their "ranking page" that they only bother ranking the top 300 
distros?


> down from about 360 a year or so ago. Frankly I believe their
> numbers rather than yours.

Then let's take a look at their numbers which you do believe:

http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=All

I see 633 distros listed alphabetically. The last one being Zopix.


> Of course, they have criteria for moving
> distros out of the active column, so it overstates the number somewhat.
> I'd also not count all the *buntus as separate distros like they do.

Why wouldn't you count all of the *buntus as separate distros? That's the 
*entire* point of the argument - that most of these distros are basically 
the same thing. And the first thing that you want to do is to *not* count 
the 'buntus because they're all basically the same.




0
not-zeke (902)
10/20/2009 9:05:45 PM
"Peter K�hlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message 
news:hbl723$c8$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> Ezekiel wrote:
>
>>
>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhds3sk.8ir.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>> On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>
>>>>> Recent:
>>>>>
>>>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>>>
>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers
>>>>> | should
>>>>> pool
>>>>> | their resources behind a single distribution.
>>>>> `----
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-
> linux.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot
>>>> of middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having
>>>> 400+ distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and
>>>> themes.
>>>
>>> ...odd then that you continually parrot the 400 or 500 number along
>>> with all of the other trolls.
>>
>> So now you're in denial that there are 100's of Linux distros?
>
> He is telling you that you are pulling numbers out of your arse. Which is
> exactly what you are doing

Over 600 distros. No crawl back under your rock and dereference some NULL 
pointers like the idiot that you are.

http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=All



0
not-zeke (902)
10/20/2009 9:08:35 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:18:44 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
> news:7de010ef-e9d0-480c-a0b8-b326e88d6876@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>> Ezekiel wrote:
>>>there's a lot of middle ground between having just one "single distro"
>>>and having 400+ distros
>>>most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and themes.
>>>
>> ...and app selection.
> 
> The app selection is irrelevant to me. Whatever apps a user wants they
> can download from the repository. I don't see any scenario where a user
> really wants to run "Distro A" but they ended up going with Distro B
> because it included some app by default.

I really wanted to run PCLinuxOS at one place, but run Ubuntu instead 
because iTalc and Moodle are included in the repository.

> 
> 
>>>One single distro? - No.
>>>400+ distros? - Also no.
>>
>> Well, there's only about, what, 40 unique bloodlines and, as you say,
>> the rest are tweaked versions of those.
> 
> Pretty much - think "Hannah Montana Linux" as an example where it's
> basically a stock distro (I think it was based on Ubuntu) where they
> merely added some wallpaper and icons and voilla'  -  it's now a new
> distro.
> 
> 
> 
>> It's all in your perspective really.
> 
> It's not my perspective that matters. It's the perspective of new users
> who see 400+ different distros and the perspective of device
> manufacturers who don't have the resources to support 100's of distros
> and dozens of different package managers.

The vendors could support a limited number of distros/package managers.

And, just for fun, can you come up with -a- dozen different package 
managers?

-- 
Rick
0
none5467 (1279)
10/20/2009 9:48:46 PM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:05:45 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:

> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
> news:7k6kuvF37fbpiU40@mid.individual.net...
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:44:29 -0400, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>
>>>> Recent:
>>>>
>>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>>
>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers
>>>> should pool
>>>> | their resources behind a single distribution. `----
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-
>> linux.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot
>>> of middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having
>>> 400+ distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and
>>> themes.
>>>
>>> One single distro? - No.
>>> 400+ distros? - Also no.
>>
>> Perhaps you should learn to count.
> 
> Perhaps you should make sure that you're actually correct before you
> start insinuating that I can't count?
> 
> 
>> Distrowatch.com counts 300 active  distros
> 
> That's a very nice round number isn't it? Did it ever occur to you that
> when you look at their "ranking page" that they only bother ranking the
> top 300 distros?

No, because that's not where I looked. In the weekly report (every week) 
they give a summary. The count used to be around 354 - it is now 300. 
That's their exact number not rounded and has nothing to do with the 100 
on their hit ranking.

> 
> 
>> down from about 360 a year or so ago. Frankly I believe their numbers
>> rather than yours.
> 
> Then let's take a look at their numbers which you do believe:
> 
> http://distrowatch.com/search.php?
category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=All
> 
> I see 633 distros listed alphabetically. The last one being Zopix.
> 

And, as I pointed out, not all of those are ACTIVE. Why would you want to 
count inactive ones - except to be obtuse.

> 
>> Of course, they have criteria for moving distros out of the active
>> column, so it overstates the number somewhat. I'd also not count all
>> the *buntus as separate distros like they do.
> 
> Why wouldn't you count all of the *buntus as separate distros? That's
> the *entire* point of the argument - that most of these distros are
> basically the same thing. And the first thing that you want to do is to
> *not* count the 'buntus because they're all basically the same.

OK - so if there is only one distribution then what are you complaining 
about?

Here is the latest summary:

DistroWatch database summary

    * Number of all distributions in the database: 633
    * Number of all active distributions in the database: 301
    * Number of dormant distributions: 46
    * Number of discontinued distributions: 286
    * Number of distributions on the waiting list: 174 
0
ray65 (5421)
10/20/2009 9:53:15 PM
Rick stated in post kuWdnbJHbaSjrUPXnZ2dnUVZ_gpi4p2d@supernews.com on
10/20/09 2:48 PM:

>> The app selection is irrelevant to me. Whatever apps a user wants they
>> can download from the repository. I don't see any scenario where a user
>> really wants to run "Distro A" but they ended up going with Distro B
>> because it included some app by default.
> 
> I really wanted to run PCLinuxOS at one place, but run Ubuntu instead
> because iTalc and Moodle are included in the repository.

A shame it is harder to install on distros where they are not in the
repositories.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
usenet2 (47889)
10/20/2009 10:02:13 PM
On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> "Peter Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message 
> news:hbl723$c8$03$1@news.t-online.com...
>> Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnhds3sk.8ir.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>>> On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recent:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers
>>>>>> | should
>>>>>> pool
>>>>>> | their resources behind a single distribution.
>>>>>> `----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-
>> linux.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a lot
>>>>> of middle ground between having just one "single distro" and having
>>>>> 400+ distros most of which are identical except for the wallpaper and
>>>>> themes.
>>>>
>>>> ...odd then that you continually parrot the 400 or 500 number along
>>>> with all of the other trolls.
>>>
>>> So now you're in denial that there are 100's of Linux distros?
>>
>> He is telling you that you are pulling numbers out of your arse. Which is
>> exactly what you are doing
>
> Over 600 distros. No crawl back under your rock and dereference some NULL 

....some of those aren't even Linux.

....some of them are localized (as that other fellow mentioned).

....some of them are highly specialized.

> pointers like the idiot that you are.
>
> http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=All

    The only really relevant question is how many will the average n00b
coming at this with some sincerity will see? They won't know to go to 
DistroWatch and come up with a search that is optimized for Lemming 
rhetoric. They will seek out and be exposed  to different things.

    They will never see the Estonian distribution tightly integrated with
wine or the rescue CD or the versions of Solaris and BSD.

-- 

     These Mac Fanboys want vi imposed on everyone.                   |||
                                                                     / | \
0
jedi (14754)
10/21/2009 2:40:52 AM
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:40:52 -0500, JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> "Peter Köhlmann" <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message
>> news:hbl723$c8$03$1@news.t-online.com...
>>> Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>>>> news:slrnhds3sk.8ir.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>>>> On 2009-10-20, Ezekiel <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:12344874.9e8A3TW3Vs@schestowitz.com...
>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recent:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>>>>>> | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers |
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> pool
>>>>>>> | their resources behind a single distribution. `----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-
onesizefitsall-
>>> linux.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike you, most people are intelligent to realize that there's a
>>>>>> lot of middle ground between having just one "single distro" and
>>>>>> having 400+ distros most of which are identical except for the
>>>>>> wallpaper and themes.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...odd then that you continually parrot the 400 or 500 number along
>>>>> with all of the other trolls.
>>>>
>>>> So now you're in denial that there are 100's of Linux distros?
>>>
>>> He is telling you that you are pulling numbers out of your arse. Which
>>> is exactly what you are doing
>>
>> Over 600 distros. No crawl back under your rock and dereference some
>> NULL
> 
> ...some of those aren't even Linux.
> 
> ...some of them are localized (as that other fellow mentioned).
> 
> ...some of them are highly specialized.
> 
>> pointers like the idiot that you are.
>>
>> http://distrowatch.com/search.php?
category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=All
> 
>     The only really relevant question is how many will the average n00b
> coming at this with some sincerity will see? They won't know to go to
> DistroWatch and come up with a search that is optimized for Lemming
> rhetoric. They will seek out and be exposed  to different things.
> 
>     They will never see the Estonian distribution tightly integrated
>     with
> wine or the rescue CD or the versions of Solaris and BSD.

That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is 
duplication of effort.
0
ray65 (5421)
10/21/2009 3:26:57 PM
ray wrote:

>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is 
>duplication of effort.

That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.  

There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars,
or televisions, or operating systems.

0
chrisv (22840)
10/21/2009 4:13:15 PM
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:

> ray wrote:
> 
>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>duplication of effort.
> 
> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
> 
> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, or
> televisions, or operating systems.

I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed what 
the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.
0
ray65 (5421)
10/21/2009 4:25:08 PM
On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of chrisv:
> ray wrote:
>
>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is 
>>duplication of effort.
>
> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.  
>
> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars,
> or televisions, or operating systems.

Very well said. This *is* the real world so many of the Windows guys
in this ng refer to when they want to reduce GNU/Linux to a geek's
toy.

Not that GNU/Linux can't be a geek's toy of course. But then again, so
can Windows, but it isn't nearly as much fun.

-- 
Q:	What do you have when you have a lawyer buried up to his neck in sand?
A:	Not enough sand.
0
10/21/2009 4:43:56 PM
"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message 
news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>
>> ray wrote:
>>
>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>duplication of effort.
>>
>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
>>
>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, or
>> televisions, or operating systems.
>
> I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed what
> the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.

The point *is* duplication of effort - and often it's not clear why everyone 
is out to re-invent the wheel.

Of course nobody can dictate or force people not to do this. That's a 
strawman argument. The real question is why people would do this for no 
apparent reason and why it's usually viewed as a benefit instead of openly 
questioning why it needed to be done in the first place.

See the - "GNU-based System Called Antomic Takes Off" post. Especially this 
part:

> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
> | GNU/Linux package manager should.

Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package managers? Is 
there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager that's 
not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead of 
listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a 
benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask what's 
wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.





0
not-zeke (902)
10/21/2009 5:04:06 PM
"Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:

> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message 
> news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> ray wrote:
>>>
>>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>>duplication of effort.
>>>
>>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
>>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
>>>
>>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
>>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, or
>>> televisions, or operating systems.
>>
>> I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed what
>> the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.
>
> The point *is* duplication of effort - and often it's not clear why everyone 
> is out to re-invent the wheel.
>
> Of course nobody can dictate or force people not to do this. That's a 
> strawman argument. The real question is why people would do this for no 
> apparent reason and why it's usually viewed as a benefit instead of openly 
> questioning why it needed to be done in the first place.
>
> See the - "GNU-based System Called Antomic Takes Off" post. Especially this 
> part:
>
>> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
>> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
>> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
>> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
>> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
>> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
>> | GNU/Linux package manager should.
>
> Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package managers? Is 
> there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager that's 
> not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead of 
> listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a 
> benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask what's 
> wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.

Bingo.

Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2009 5:10:48 PM
"Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hbnfao$u5t$3@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>
>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>> news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>>> ray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>>>duplication of effort.
>>>>
>>>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
>>>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
>>>>
>>>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
>>>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, or
>>>> televisions, or operating systems.
>>>
>>> I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed 
>>> what
>>> the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.
>>
>> The point *is* duplication of effort - and often it's not clear why 
>> everyone
>> is out to re-invent the wheel.
>>
>> Of course nobody can dictate or force people not to do this. That's a
>> strawman argument. The real question is why people would do this for no
>> apparent reason and why it's usually viewed as a benefit instead of 
>> openly
>> questioning why it needed to be done in the first place.
>>
>> See the - "GNU-based System Called Antomic Takes Off" post. Especially 
>> this
>> part:
>>
>>> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
>>> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
>>> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
>>> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
>>> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
>>> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
>>> | GNU/Linux package manager should.
>>
>> Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package managers? 
>> Is
>> there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager 
>> that's
>> not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead of
>> listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a
>> benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask 
>> what's
>> wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.
>
> Bingo.
>
> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.

We ran into a real-life example of this at work a few months ago. We have 
our own internal set of classes for various things and one of the classes 
that we have is a thread-pool class that does exactly what it sounds like. I 
was doing a routine build in one of my workspaces and noticed some compiler 
warnings coming from a file named something like 'new-thread-pool.cpp' which 
I haven't seen before.

It turns out that someone couldn't figure out how to get the existing 
thread-pool to do what they wanted so they went ahead and wrote an entirely 
new thread-pool class. They basically re-invented the wheel for no apparent 
reason. Our product is big enough and complicated enough as it is and the 
last thing we need are duplicate sets of classes to maintain.

We ended up nuking the new-thread-pool and making a simple modification to 
the existing one to do what they needed. But the greater point is the 
mentality of just creating more stuff which in our case made things worse - 
not better.



0
not-zeke (902)
10/21/2009 5:22:36 PM
"Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:

> "Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:hbnfao$u5t$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>>
>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>>>>duplication of effort.
>>>>>
>>>>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
>>>>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
>>>>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, or
>>>>> televisions, or operating systems.
>>>>
>>>> I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed 
>>>> what
>>>> the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.
>>>
>>> The point *is* duplication of effort - and often it's not clear why 
>>> everyone
>>> is out to re-invent the wheel.
>>>
>>> Of course nobody can dictate or force people not to do this. That's a
>>> strawman argument. The real question is why people would do this for no
>>> apparent reason and why it's usually viewed as a benefit instead of 
>>> openly
>>> questioning why it needed to be done in the first place.
>>>
>>> See the - "GNU-based System Called Antomic Takes Off" post. Especially 
>>> this
>>> part:
>>>
>>>> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
>>>> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
>>>> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
>>>> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
>>>> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
>>>> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
>>>> | GNU/Linux package manager should.
>>>
>>> Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package managers? 
>>> Is
>>> there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager 
>>> that's
>>> not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead of
>>> listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a
>>> benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask 
>>> what's
>>> wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.
>>
>> Bingo.
>>
>> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
>> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
>> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
>> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
>> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.
>
> We ran into a real-life example of this at work a few months ago. We have 
> our own internal set of classes for various things and one of the classes 
> that we have is a thread-pool class that does exactly what it sounds like. I 
> was doing a routine build in one of my workspaces and noticed some compiler 
> warnings coming from a file named something like 'new-thread-pool.cpp' which 
> I haven't seen before.
>
> It turns out that someone couldn't figure out how to get the existing 
> thread-pool to do what they wanted so they went ahead and wrote an entirely 
> new thread-pool class. They basically re-invented the wheel for no apparent 
> reason. Our product is big enough and complicated enough as it is and the 
> last thing we need are duplicate sets of classes to maintain.
>
> We ended up nuking the new-thread-pool and making a simple modification to 
> the existing one to do what they needed. But the greater point is the 
> mentality of just creating more stuff which in our case made things worse - 
> not better.

It is far easier for a "hacker" (and hacker is a bad word given to crap
programmers in the real professional SW world as you know) to knock up
something half arsed and incomplete which meets his needs of the day
than to read existing code bases and work out how to integrate his need
of the day into the existing system using architected and maintainable
process. Since there is little if any accountability in the OSS world
this accounts for so many half arsed applications duplicating the
efforts of others.

0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2009 5:26:44 PM
"Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hbng8l$u5t$5@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>
>> "Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hbnfao$u5t$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>>>>>duplication of effort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and 
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> televisions, or operating systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed
>>>>> what
>>>>> the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.
>>>>
>>>> The point *is* duplication of effort - and often it's not clear why
>>>> everyone
>>>> is out to re-invent the wheel.
>>>>
>>>> Of course nobody can dictate or force people not to do this. That's a
>>>> strawman argument. The real question is why people would do this for no
>>>> apparent reason and why it's usually viewed as a benefit instead of
>>>> openly
>>>> questioning why it needed to be done in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> See the - "GNU-based System Called Antomic Takes Off" post. Especially
>>>> this
>>>> part:
>>>>
>>>>> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
>>>>> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
>>>>> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
>>>>> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
>>>>> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
>>>>> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
>>>>> | GNU/Linux package manager should.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package 
>>>> managers?
>>>> Is
>>>> there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager
>>>> that's
>>>> not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead 
>>>> of
>>>> listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a
>>>> benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask
>>>> what's
>>>> wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.
>>>
>>> Bingo.
>>>
>>> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
>>> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
>>> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
>>> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
>>> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.
>>
>> We ran into a real-life example of this at work a few months ago. We have
>> our own internal set of classes for various things and one of the classes
>> that we have is a thread-pool class that does exactly what it sounds 
>> like. I
>> was doing a routine build in one of my workspaces and noticed some 
>> compiler
>> warnings coming from a file named something like 'new-thread-pool.cpp' 
>> which
>> I haven't seen before.
>>
>> It turns out that someone couldn't figure out how to get the existing
>> thread-pool to do what they wanted so they went ahead and wrote an 
>> entirely
>> new thread-pool class. They basically re-invented the wheel for no 
>> apparent
>> reason. Our product is big enough and complicated enough as it is and the
>> last thing we need are duplicate sets of classes to maintain.
>>
>> We ended up nuking the new-thread-pool and making a simple modification 
>> to
>> the existing one to do what they needed. But the greater point is the
>> mentality of just creating more stuff which in our case made things 
>> worse -
>> not better.
>
> It is far easier for a "hacker" (and hacker is a bad word given to crap
> programmers in the real professional SW world as you know) to knock up
> something half arsed and incomplete which meets his needs of the day
> than to read existing code bases and work out how to integrate his need
> of the day into the existing system using architected and maintainable
> process. Since there is little if any accountability in the OSS world
> this accounts for so many half arsed applications duplicating the
> efforts of others.
>

This new thread-pool was definitely a hack. The existing thread-pool is one 
of our core classes which are used throughout the product. We go to great 
lenghts to make sure that *all* of our core classes are as solid and bug 
free as we can make them. They're all thread safe, have correct 
copy-semantics, that they don't leak memory and everything else. This is 
stuff that has to work right.

The new thread-class was literally a half-baked "hack" that worked - but 
only worked for the one particular purpose that the person needed. It lacked 
lots of things that would make it a robust and reliable class. The reasoning 
was that the person knew that they would only need to use it in one specific 
context. So it was hacked together to basically only work under a specific 
set of conditions which was "good enough" for what they needed today.

One additional problem is that things change months from now it could start 
falling apart if the client using this new class changes or gets new 
requirements. That's why it's better if they would have used the existing 
class which will work correctly under any set of conditions.







0
not-zeke (902)
10/21/2009 5:40:09 PM
"Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:

> "Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:hbng8l$u5t$5@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>>
>>> "Hadron" <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hbnfao$u5t$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ray wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>>>>>>duplication of effort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and 
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars, 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> televisions, or operating systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no problem with that. I was simply trying to point out to jed
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> the argument was - he didn't seem to grasp it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point *is* duplication of effort - and often it's not clear why
>>>>> everyone
>>>>> is out to re-invent the wheel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course nobody can dictate or force people not to do this. That's a
>>>>> strawman argument. The real question is why people would do this for no
>>>>> apparent reason and why it's usually viewed as a benefit instead of
>>>>> openly
>>>>> questioning why it needed to be done in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> See the - "GNU-based System Called Antomic Takes Off" post. Especially
>>>>> this
>>>>> part:
>>>>>
>>>>>> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
>>>>>> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
>>>>>> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
>>>>>> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
>>>>>> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
>>>>>> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
>>>>>> | GNU/Linux package manager should.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package 
>>>>> managers?
>>>>> Is
>>>>> there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager
>>>>> that's
>>>>> not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead 
>>>>> of
>>>>> listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a
>>>>> benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask
>>>>> what's
>>>>> wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.
>>>>
>>>> Bingo.
>>>>
>>>> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
>>>> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
>>>> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
>>>> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
>>>> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.
>>>
>>> We ran into a real-life example of this at work a few months ago. We have
>>> our own internal set of classes for various things and one of the classes
>>> that we have is a thread-pool class that does exactly what it sounds 
>>> like. I
>>> was doing a routine build in one of my workspaces and noticed some 
>>> compiler
>>> warnings coming from a file named something like 'new-thread-pool.cpp' 
>>> which
>>> I haven't seen before.
>>>
>>> It turns out that someone couldn't figure out how to get the existing
>>> thread-pool to do what they wanted so they went ahead and wrote an 
>>> entirely
>>> new thread-pool class. They basically re-invented the wheel for no 
>>> apparent
>>> reason. Our product is big enough and complicated enough as it is and the
>>> last thing we need are duplicate sets of classes to maintain.
>>>
>>> We ended up nuking the new-thread-pool and making a simple modification 
>>> to
>>> the existing one to do what they needed. But the greater point is the
>>> mentality of just creating more stuff which in our case made things 
>>> worse -
>>> not better.
>>
>> It is far easier for a "hacker" (and hacker is a bad word given to crap
>> programmers in the real professional SW world as you know) to knock up
>> something half arsed and incomplete which meets his needs of the day
>> than to read existing code bases and work out how to integrate his need
>> of the day into the existing system using architected and maintainable
>> process. Since there is little if any accountability in the OSS world
>> this accounts for so many half arsed applications duplicating the
>> efforts of others.
>>
>
> This new thread-pool was definitely a hack. The existing thread-pool is one 
> of our core classes which are used throughout the product. We go to great 
> lenghts to make sure that *all* of our core classes are as solid and bug 
> free as we can make them. They're all thread safe, have correct 
> copy-semantics, that they don't leak memory and everything else. This is 
> stuff that has to work right.
>
> The new thread-class was literally a half-baked "hack" that worked - but 
> only worked for the one particular purpose that the person needed. It
> lacked 

See above. Yup.

> lots of things that would make it a robust and reliable class. The
> reasoning 

Far too much work for the "hacker". He feels his job is done ...

> was that the person knew that they would only need to use it in one specific 
> context. So it was hacked together to basically only work under a
> specific 

Yup. Hack it to meet their needs and screw everyone else.

> set of conditions which was "good enough" for what they needed today.
>
> One additional problem is that things change months from now it could start 
> falling apart if the client using this new class changes or gets new 
> requirements. That's why it's better if they would have used the existing 
> class which will work correctly under any set of conditions.
>

Absolutely.


-- 
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2009 6:20:45 PM
On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
> professional SW world as you know

Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
together almost completely together by hackers.

-- 
Q:	What's a WASP's idea of open-mindedness?
A:	Dating a Canadian.
0
10/21/2009 6:25:50 PM
On 2009-10-21, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Ezekiel" <not-zeke@the-zeke.com> writes:
>
>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message 
>> news:7k8qv4F37fbpiU47@mid.individual.net...
>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:13:15 -0500, chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>>> ray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is
>>>>>duplication of effort.

[deletia]

>>> | Apkg is Antomic's package manager. It's inspired
>>> | from Debian's dpkg, hence the name. Like most
>>> | things in Antomic it was designed with one goal
>>> | in mind - simplicity. Although apkg is simple it
>>> | does not mean it's limited in it's capabilities,
>>> | apkg will support all essential functions that a
>>> | GNU/Linux package manager should.
>>
>> Is there a problem with Linux not already having enough package managers? Is 
>> there really a need to create and develop yet another package manager that's 
>> not compatible with all of the existing ones? I think IMO that instead of 
>> listing this all-new "let's create a yet another package manager" as a 
>> benefit of the distro - the more prudent thing would be to simply ask what's 
>> wrong the existing package managers that a new one had to be developed.
>
> Bingo.
>
> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT

    People use synaptic and apt-get interchangeably (myself included). I
have yet to cause anything to explode/implode.

    As far as "the burden of packaging" goes: anyone from the community
can take up that mantle. That's one of the cooler parts of Ubuntu. Some
people from the community do take up this mantle.

    This is why your Ubuntu comments become quickly outdated.

> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.

    That's an interesting idea. Got a test case?

    Although after having taken a look at aptitude (just now), I am not 
quite sure what the point is. It's not really an old school Unix sort of
UI and it's not a proper GUI either. You would have to be pretty persistent
even to stumble upon it.

    It seems like the sort of thing that decietful trolls would use to 
generate the most chaos possible.

-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

0
jedi (14754)
10/21/2009 6:26:55 PM
On 2009-10-21, TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of chrisv:
>> ray wrote:
>>
>>>That's well and good, but I think the point of the argument is 
>>>duplication of effort.
>>
>> That "point" is stupid and has been explained before.  "Duplication of
>> effort cannot be avoided in a healthy, competitive market.  
>>
>> There is no dictating "committee" that can say "this company, and only
>> this company, will develop this type of product", whether it's cars,
>> or televisions, or operating systems.
>
> Very well said. This *is* the real world so many of the Windows guys
> in this ng refer to when they want to reduce GNU/Linux to a geek's
> toy.

....even with a geek's toy you don't necessarily want to waste your time
when you don't have to. This is a key consideration that quickly gets
lost in all the gibber jabber about how Linux is inherently complex or
that this is something that old time Linux users want.

I am perfectly content to run "apt-get install mythbuntu-desktop" and be
done or click on a DIVX file in totem and let it do it's voodoo or just
install a dev package from a ppa in synaptic or apt-get.

Automation beats a pretty frontend any day of the week.

>
> Not that GNU/Linux can't be a geek's toy of course. But then again, so
> can Windows, but it isn't nearly as much fun.
>


-- 

	Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,     
	is genuinely new: culture, like science and              |||
	technology grows by accretion, each new creator         / | \
	building on the works of those that came before.

				 Judge Alex Kozinski
				 US Court of Appeals
				 9th Circuit

0
jedi (14754)
10/21/2009 6:29:45 PM
On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.

Not true. It is perfectly save to use both the apt tools and aptitude.
Yes, they have different ways of resolving dependancies, but unless
there are broken dependancies in the packages themselves, using them
both will not cause any breakage.

-- 
Living your life is a task so difficult, it has never been attempted before.
0
10/21/2009 6:36:16 PM
TomB wrote:

> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
>> professional SW world as you know
>
> Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
> together almost completely together by hackers.

Hadron is so ignorant as usual:

'Hackers are Not Crackers'

http://tech.bluesmoon.info/2000/06/hackers-are-not-crackers.html

0
10/21/2009 6:53:59 PM
TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
>> professional SW world as you know
>
> Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
> together almost completely together by hackers.

Wrong.

Look, I've been a professional programmer since the late 80s and in the
industry a "hack" has meant a bad, incomplete, or quick and botched job
and a "hacker" is used to describe someone who does a half arsed
job. When someone "hacks something together" thats fine for when you
need it : but invariably it means revisiting.

These meanings really can not be changed in COLA no matter how 1337 you
think it is to be a "hacker".

The other meaning where it is less derogatory is in reference to people
who "hack into" secure systems. This is a totally different meaning.

"hacker" is just about never used to describe a GOOD, proficient
programmer.

0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2009 7:16:08 PM
Hadron pulled this Usenet boner:

> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.

Others think different, and they're "just" Ubuntu users:

   http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/

   pipomolo using Mozilla Firefox Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.8 on Ubuntu Linux

   Nice article...

   Though i disagree on one point...
   installed with apt-get, it will perfectly remove all dependencies.

   When removing a package, aptitude checks if there will be some unused
   packages, not caring about the way there were installed... I'm pretty
   sure aptitude would remove an unused package, even if it had been
   installed manually, using a dpkg command.

   Try it yourself if you need to be convinced of that... there's no
   problem at all with mixing apt-get and aptitude.

   http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=258890

   You can use them all together with no problem.

   But as far as I know aptitude can't remove the dependency's you installed
   with apt-get,only the ones which are installed with aptitude.

   That's why I only use aptitude.

You lying sycophantic little suckup.  Can't you ever stop leg-humping Zeke
and his FUD posts?  It's getting downright creepy!

   :-D
         :-D
               :-D
      :-D

-- 
The lovely woman-child Kaa was mercilessly chained to the cruel post of
the warrior-chief Beast, with his barbarian tribe now stacking wood at
her nubile feet, when the strong clear voice of the poetic and heroic
Handsomas roared, 'Flick your Bic, crisp that chick, and you'll feel my
steel through your last meal!'
		-- Winning sentence, 1984 Bulwer-Lytton bad fiction contest.
0
ahlstromc1 (7605)
10/21/2009 7:20:56 PM
Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> writes:

> Hadron pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> Yet more efforts now need to go into providing packages for this new
>> manager. It is fucking ridiculous. Even in Debian people are at a loss
>> to know whether to use apt-* or aptitude or synaptic. And no they do NOT
>> do the same things. Aptitude and apt-* resolve dependencies much
>> differently and mixing and matching them can prove fatal.
>
> Others think different, and they're "just" Ubuntu users:

Sure others think differently. Whats your point?

>
>    http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
>
>    pipomolo using Mozilla Firefox Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.8 on Ubuntu Linux
>
>    Nice article...
>
>    Though i disagree on one point...
>    installed with apt-get, it will perfectly remove all dependencies.

Not according to the Debian guys.

>
>    When removing a package, aptitude checks if there will be some unused
>    packages, not caring about the way there were installed... I'm pretty
>    sure aptitude would remove an unused package, even if it had been
>    installed manually, using a dpkg command.

"pretty sure".

note the confusion?

>
>    Try it yourself if you need to be convinced of that... there's no
>    problem at all with mixing apt-get and aptitude.

Not true. I know as I had issues when I did that.

>
>    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=258890
>
>    You can use them all together with no problem.
>
>    But as far as I know aptitude can't remove the dependency's you installed
>    with apt-get,only the ones which are installed with aptitude.
>
>    That's why I only use aptitude.
>
> You lying sycophantic little suckup.  Can't you ever stop leg-humping Zeke
> and his FUD posts?  It's getting downright creepy!
>
>    :-D
>          :-D
>                :-D
>       :-D

I'm not leg humping anyone. That's your job. I am pointing out its
ludicrous to have so many package managers all leading to confusion and
possible corruption.

Why you should take this as some sort of knock at Linux is anyones
guess.

The fact that that thread even exists proves my point.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=258890

or what about:

http://www.phpfreaks.com/forums/index.php?topic=233074.0

,----
| I've actually done some reading and seen about 50/50 as to what people
| use. I'm still honestly confused about he major difference between the
| two and which is better/worse and for what reasons. Can someone shed
| some light.
`----

And the beauty is the first answer is ... WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So pull your tongue out of Roy's arse and try using your brain for a
change. There IS confusion. There IS redundancy.

Once more you shoot yourself in the foot by not thinking or doing your
homework properly.

0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2009 7:21:05 PM
TomB pulled this Usenet boner:

> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
>> professional SW world as you know
>
> Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
> together almost completely together by hackers.

What would "Hadron" know about "hackers"?  "Hadron" is a hack.

Is there *nothing* over which "Hadron" *won't* put his foot in his mouth?

-- 
Q:	What did Tarzan say when he saw the elephants coming over the hill?
A:	"The elephants are coming over the hill."
Q:	What did he say when saw them coming over the hill wearing
		sunglasses?
A:	Nothing, for he didn't recognize them.
0
ahlstromc1 (7605)
10/21/2009 7:23:16 PM
Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@launchmodem.com> writes:

> TomB pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>>> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
>>> professional SW world as you know
>>
>> Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
>> together almost completely together by hackers.
>
> What would "Hadron" know about "hackers"?  "Hadron" is a hack.
>
> Is there *nothing* over which "Hadron" *won't* put his foot in his mouth?

And yet you are demonstratably wrong. Once more you suck up without
checking the FACTS. Please refer to my previous reply. Go on. Knock
yourself out.


"He is a hacker" in SW Engineering parlance means he's a crap programmer
likely to churn out ill thought designs of the day with little if any
thought to maintenance and support.

And the initial quote from TomB about BSD is simply bullshit. BSD is
NOT put together by "hackers". It is put together by skilled and
resolute programmers with a lot of experience.
0
hadronquark (21814)
10/21/2009 7:23:40 PM
On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
> "He is a hacker" in SW Engineering parlance means he's a crap programmer
> likely to churn out ill thought designs of the day with little if any
> thought to maintenance and support.

That's a nice hobby you have there, making up definitions on the spot.

> And the initial quote from TomB about BSD is simply bullshit. BSD is
> NOT put together by "hackers". It is put together by skilled and
> resolute programmers with a lot of experience.

I suggest you do some research first. In the FreeBSD community (and in
F/OSS communities in general) "hacker" is a term of respect. That's
why the technical discussions on FreeBSD are done in the
freebsd-hackers mailing list.

http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers

Besides that, "hacker" is often used to refer to a person who likes to
fiddle with stuff on a low and technical level. Besides software
hackers, there are also e.g. electronics hackers.

It might well be that you and your "professional programmer" friends
use the term to describe bad programmers, but that isn't by far the
widely accepted meaning of the term.

On a side note I have to mention also that the term hacker is often
used to refer to people who break into computer systems. However, the
preferred term for those people is "cracker" or "intruder".

-- 
October 12, the Discovery.

It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss
it.
		-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"
0
10/21/2009 9:35:03 PM
On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
> TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>>> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
>>> professional SW world as you know
>>
>> Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
>> together almost completely together by hackers.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Look, I've been a professional programmer since the late 80s and in the
> industry a "hack" has meant a bad, incomplete, or quick and botched job
> and a "hacker" is used to describe someone who does a half arsed
> job. When someone "hacks something together" thats fine for when you
> need it : but invariably it means revisiting.
>
> These meanings really can not be changed in COLA no matter how 1337 you
> think it is to be a "hacker".
>
> The other meaning where it is less derogatory is in reference to people
> who "hack into" secure systems. This is a totally different meaning.
>
> "hacker" is just about never used to describe a GOOD, proficient
> programmer.

Damn, I should'be replied here.

Ah, whatever...

-- 
A long-forgotten loved one will appear soon.

Buy the negatives at any price.
0
10/21/2009 9:38:13 PM
TomB pulled this Usenet boner:

> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>> TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2009-10-21, the following emerged from the brain of Hadron:
>>>> hacker is a bad word given to crap programmers in the real
>>>> professional SW world as you know
>>>
>>> Sure. That's why an amazing operating system such as FreeBSD is put
>>> together almost completely together by hackers.
>>
>> Wrong.
>>
>> Look, I've been a professional programmer since the late 80s and in the
>> industry a "hack" has meant a bad, incomplete, or quick and botched job
>> and a "hacker" is used to describe someone who does a half arsed
>> job. When someone "hacks something together" thats fine for when you
>> need it : but invariably it means revisiting.
>>
>> These meanings really can not be changed in COLA no matter how 1337 you
>> think it is to be a "hacker".
>>
>> The other meaning where it is less derogatory is in reference to people
>> who "hack into" secure systems. This is a totally different meaning.
>>
>> "hacker" is just about never used to describe a GOOD, proficient
>> programmer.
>
> Damn, I should'be replied here.
>
> Ah, whatever...

It doesn't matter, Tom.  "Hadron" lives in his own little narcissistic
world, where intruders who belie his thoughts get a snarl.

I've never heard of "hacker" used (outside the media) as a term of anything
but respect, even in business.  They may shake their heads over the chaos of
his methods, but they are also admiring.  And even in the media, there is
some implicit admiring of the fellow's intelligence, if not his ethics.

-- 
He draweth out the thread of his verbosity finer than the staple of his
argument.
		-- William Shakespeare, "Love's Labour's Lost"
0
ahlstromc1 (7605)
10/21/2009 10:30:17 PM
Reply:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 blackPanther OS 10.1 http://www.blackpanther.hu/ Zorin OS 2.0 video released ,----[ Quote ] | If you're interested in Zorin OS 2.0 then | you'll be interested to see the first video | of it. Head over to the Videos page on this | site view it. | | Also as a quick reminder, Zorin OS 2.0 will | be availible on the 1st of January, that's | less than a week! `---- http://zorin-os.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/2434137-zorin-os-2-0-video-released Recent: Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux ,----[ Quote ] | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should pool | their resources behind a single distribution. `---- http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html Fragmentation good for the user, says Nokia ,----[ Quote ] | Fragmentation within mobile platforms helps handset manufacturers | and software developers to properly address customers' needs, a | senior Nokia executive has said. `---- http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10013788o-2000331761b,00.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAks/9eAACgkQU4xAY3RXLo6dIgCgl+fAFmr/M9S8qIOxFSk7vowV Mb0An1J70hjkZdYkhXltDLxoN+kiRLOq =fL86 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ...

i=infinity;0= i*sin k*pi, 1=cos k*pi, k=m/n, n=4,m=0-00; c*G=20=const, 1/sgrt2>G>0.5, 6<N = NA ^2surf/NAvol<7 ; h/N =11=const, e+i*pi; D universe =f(h)*1/ (a))^4, T=f( m, S, D)
Please give me a direction - am I totally lost in my own world and have spent 6 months in vain trying to figure this out, or is there a fruit of truth hidden somewhere? Excuse me for rapid end of some sentences and chaotic appearance of equations- i am just tired. I have spent 1 month practically thinking only about 1 thing. I need some rest and support. On other hand, this chaotically ordered text is good as it will cause confusion and will stretch imagination:) Approximately 50% of the following text is obviously right > 37,5%-is subjective <12,5%- optional Approximately 50% of peop...

[News] Skype 1.4 for Linux Released; KDE 4.0 Contest Announced
Skype 1.4 for Linux is here! ,----[ Quote ] | Following in the footsteps of the Great Cucumber and The Salad Sandwich comes | Panacea, the Greek goddess of cures. That’s the codename for our latest Linux | release, which went public today as Skype 1.4 for Linux. `---- http://share.skype.com/sites/linux/2007/10/skype_14_for_linux_final_is_released.html KDE 4.0 Release Event Contest ,----[ Quote ] | The KDE 4.0 Release Event Team is pleased to announce a contest for the KDE | 4.0 Release Event. `---- http://dot.kde.org/1191506286/ Recent: Announcing the KDE 4.0 Release Event ,----...

[News] Linux-based Controller Released by Artila; Foresight Linux 1.4.0 is Out
Artila Releases Linux-based Programmable Automation Controller ,----[ Quote ] | Artila Electronics has announced their iPAC-5010, an ARM9-based, Linux-ready, | programmable automation controller. `---- http://home.nestor.minsk.by/networks/news/2007/09/1905.html Foresight Linux 1.4.0 released http://www.foresightlinux.com/ Related: Foresight LiveCD GNOME 2.17.92 ,----[ Quote ] | Today marks the release of GNOME 2.18.0, and to commemorate today's | release we have posted some screenshots from the Foresight LiveCD | 2.17.92 GNOME Release Candidate, which is designed to be a demo |...

[News] A Look at GNU/Linux Distributions Igelle 1.0.0, Zenwalk Linux, Salix OS, and GoblinX
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Distro Hoppin`: Igelle 1.0.0 ,----[ Quote ] | Hey, people! Welcome to a brand new | installment of the Distro Hoppin` series! | I bet you've been waiting for this a long | time! Actually I KNOW you've been waiting | for this a long time. Not because you were | anxiously craving for my writing or | anything, but because it's been a friggin` | long time since the last hop. Be ashamed | of yourself, Danny. Promising to write a | post more often than once in a blue moon | and going ahead to extend that period to | once in an ice age... Tsk, tsk, tsk. OK, | insert puppy eyes here and let's move on. | I DON'T NEED YOUR FORGIVENESS! `---- http://www.itlure.com/2010/02/distro-hoppin-igelle-100.html Desktop comparison - Zenwalk Linux, Salix OS and GoblinX ,----[ Quote ] | I love them all, each in their own way, | but the purpose was to compare and find a | winner if you want an easy life at home | and just something that works without much | hassle, and I'm not going to cop out now. | Xfce is a fast and potent environment that | I believe can meet most people's needs, | but it does not achieve its full potential | in most distributions due to the | underlying base. However in a well-done | distro you won't need any other | environment for your daily computing and | benefit from a considerable speed gain. `---- http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20100301#feature ArchBang 2...

[News] Clutter 1.0 Coming to Linux, Wine 1.1.24 Released
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Clutter 1.0 Reaches RC1 Milestone ,----[ Quote ] | Clutter, the open-source toolkit designed to develop rich user interfaces | with OpenGL and OpenGL ES but without the complexity of programming to such | APIs, is nearing version 1.0. This toolkit, which was used to create the very | impressive Moblin V2 interface, is backed by Intel and continues to gain | steam. Version 0.9.4 was released just this morning, which is serving as the | Clutter 1.0.0 Release Candidate 1 build. `---- http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px...

[News] New Releases of GNU/Linux: SystemRescueCd 1.4, Tiny Core Linux 2.9
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SystemRescueCd 1.4 released ,----[ Quote ] | The SystemRescueCd developers have announced | the availability of version 1.4.0 of their | recovery tool for administering or repairing | an operating system and recovering data after | a system crash. The SystemRescueCd is based | on the Gentoo LiveCD and supports a wide | variety of file systems including Ext2, Ext3 | and Ext4, ReiserFS, XFS, JFS, VFAT, NTFS, | ISO9660 and Btrfs. `---- http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SystemRescueCd-1-4-released-942540.html Tiny Core Linux 2.9 Available for Download ,----[ Quote ] | Tiny Core 2.9, the latest update to the | frugal Linux distribution, has now been made | available to all users in its final form. The | distro comes with a number of upgraded | packages and components under the hood, but | also fixes several bugs and adds a few new | features. Some of the changes to the very | light Linux distribution also make Tiny Core | 2.9 compatible with more hardware platforms. `---- http://news.softpedia.com/news/Tiny-Core-Linux-2-9-Available-for-Download-136500.shtml Recent: Tiny Core Linux 2.8 released ,----[ Quote ] | Tiny Core lead developer Robert Shingledecker | has announced the availability of version 2.8 | of Tiny Core Linux. Tiny Core is a minimal | Linux distribution that is based on the 2.6 | Linux kernel and is only about 10 MB in size. | In addition to the usual bug fixes, the latest | update includes ...

[News] New Releases of GNU/Linux: VortexBox 1.4, Sabayon Linux x86/x86-64 5.3, and More
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 VortexBox 1.4 released ,----[ Quote ] | We are pleased to announce the release of | VortexBox 1.4. Continuing with our goal to | make VortexBox the universal server for | any media player we have added full DLNA | support to VortexBox. DLNA is the future | of media sharing and many players such as | PS3, Windows 7 Media Player, and Samsung | televisions support DLNA. Now you can | easily serve your music and video files to | all these devices. `---- http://vortexbox.org/2010/06/vortexbox-1-4-released/ Press Release: Sabayon Linux x86/x86-64 5.3 GNOME and KDE ,----[ Quote ] | The best, refined blend of GNU/Linux, | coming with bleeding edge edges is | eventually here! Say hello to Sabayon | Five-point-Threeh, available in both GNOME | and KDE editions! | Dedicated to those who like cutting edge | stability, out of the box experience, | outstanding Desktop performance, clean and | beauty. Sabayon 5.3 will catch you, | anything that could have been compiled, | has been compiled, anything cool that | could have been implemented or updated, | it's there: you will find outstanding | amount of new applications and features, | like XBMC, KDE 4.4, GNOME 2.28, Linux | Kernel 2.6.34, and so forth. | So, come on, go catch it, it's half a DVD | away from you! `---- http://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=20821 Ultimate Edition 2.7 http://ultimateedition.info/ultimate_edition/ultimate-edition-2-...

[ace-users] Re: a little bug of ACE-5.4.1+TAO-1.4.1+CIAO-0.4.1.tar.gz
Hi Adam, Please upgrade to ACE+TAO x.4.8, which you can download from http://deuce.doc.wustl.edu/Download.html under the heading "latest beta kit". The DOC groups at Washington University, UC Irvine, and Vanderbilt University only provide "best effort" support for non-sponsors for the latest beta kit, as described in http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE_wrappers/docs/ACE-bug-process.html Thus, if you need more "predictable" help for ACE 5.4.1, I recommend that you check out http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/commercial-support.html for a list of companies that will provide you with ACE+TAO commercial support. Thanks, Doug >> When I compile this version, it prompts me the following errors that >> /*------ >> gmake[6]: *** No rule to make target `Client_Request_Interceptor.cpp', >> needed by `.obj/Client_Request_Interceptor.o'. Stop. >> ------*/ >> >> Then I find there is something wrong about the directory: >> /export/home/adam/ace.5.4.1.cc.64/TAO/tests/Portable_Interceptors/Request_Interceptor_Flow >> There are two files whose file names suffix are very strange. >> 1. Client_Request_Interceptor.cp >> 2. Server_Request_Interceptor.cp >> After I rename them from .cp to .cpp >> >> I wonder if this is a bug or some thing I configure wrong? >> >> Regards, >> Adam >> -...

ANN: fathom 0.4.0, fathom-tools 0.1.0, qfathom 0.1.0
Hello everyone! I would like to announce new version of fathom as well as two more packages built on top fathom. All this code is still very young and experimental, so it is not supposed to be production ready. However, I would greatly appreciate any advice or ideas on what could be useful and what would you expect of those packages. fathom 0.4.0 Fathom is python 3 library for inspecting database schema. It produces objective model of all database objects and thus allows easy database inspection. Changes: * Indices are top level objects and provide information about index uniquen= ess * Proc...

Mono 1.1.4 and 1.0.6 released
Subject: [Mono-announce-list] Mono 1.1.4 and 1.0.6 released. Date: Thursday 17 February 2005 12:27 From: Miguel de Icaza <miguel@novell.com> To: mono-list@ximian.com, Mono Announce <mono-announce-list@ximian.com> Hello, Mono 1.1.4 and 1.0.6 have been released. As of this version, Mono 1.1.4 has received more testing and more scrutiny that Mono 1.0.6, and we strongly recommend that people switch to the 1.1.4 release. We will continue to support 1.0.x for those who can not do a larger change, but keep in mind that 1.1.4 at this point is stabler, has m...

[News] New GNU/Linux Releases: CRUX 2.6, Hymera 20090910, Absolute Linux 13.0, Tiny Core 2.3.1
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Release Notes for CRUX 2.6 ,----[ Quote ] | This page discusses the relevant changes introduced in CRUX 2.6. Everybody upgrading | from the previous release is advised to carefully read the following notes. `---- http://crux.nu/Main/ReleaseNotes2-6 Hymera 20090910 http://www.hymera.it/ Absolute 13.0.1 released ,----[ Quote ] | Bug fix release corrects two issues: | | Add user utility corrected (had failed to start due to importing module that is no longer used.) `---- http://www.absolutelinux.org/ Absolute Linux 13.0 Switches to LZMA-Compressed Packages ,----[ Quote ] | Paul Sherman announced the release of Absolute Linux 13.0, bringing this lightweight | Slackware derivative up-to-date. Because of the important system-level changes that | happened in Slackware 13, the Absolute Linux developers had a hard time making all their | customizations work with this new base. However, they managed to get their IceWM and | PCManFM modifications in sync, and all the script utilities working, for this 13.0 | release of Absolute Linux 13.0. `---- http://news.softpedia.com/news/Absolute-Linux-13-0-Switches-to-LZMA-Compressed-Packages-121441.shtml Tiny Core 2.3.1 http://www.tinycorelinux.com/ Related: Why Having 500+ Distros is a Good Thing ,----[ Quote ] | Perhaps next time the author might think about what they're | saying...because limiting the number of distros out there is | absolutely NOT the way to go to accom...

Connection from Oracle Developer Suite 10g 9.0.4.0.1 to Oracle DB 10g Release 10.1.0.2.0
Hi, I have installed Oracle DB 10g Release 10.1.0.2.0 on Windows XP. START->ALL PROGS->oracle-OraDb10g_home3 Location of TNSNAMES FILE: C:\oracle\product\10.1.0\db_3\NETWORK\ADMIN\TNSNAMES.ORA with two alias: 1)ORCL3 2) EXTPROC_CONNECTION_DATA I can logon to database via SQL*PLUS and I can log on to EM on the web as well using ORCL3. After that I installed Oracle Developer Suite 10g 9.0.4.0.1 to my the same computer. During installation it was not allowing me to install this suite to the same ORACLE home. I installed this in the following home: START->ALL PROGS->...

Backpropagation for input=[0 0;0 1; 1000 0; 1 1],t=[0;1000;1;0]
I'm working backpropagation for xor training. the following code works for xor function but it cannot work input=[0 0;0 1; 1000 0; 1 1],t=[0;1000;1;0] Here is my code: clear all; clc; tic, %2-in-and %x=[0 0 1 1; 0 1 0 1]; %t=[0 0 0 1]; %2-in-or %x=[0 0 1 1; 0 1 0 1]; %t=[0 1 1 1]; %f=A+BC %x = [0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1; 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1;0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1]; %input %t = [0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1]; %target %f=A(B+C) %x = [0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1; 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1;0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1]; %input %t = [0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1]; %target %3-in-XOR(sum of 3-in 1 bit adder) % x = [0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1; 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1;0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1]; %input % t = [0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1]; %target %2-in-XOR % x=[0 0 1 1; 0 1 0 1]; % t=[0 1 1 0]; x=[0 0 1000 1; 0 1 0 1]; t=[0 1000 1 0]; % [x,meanx,stdx] = prestd(x1); % [t,meant,stdt] = prestd(t1); % x=x'; % t=t'; [ni N] = size(x); [no N] = size(t); %nh = 2; % no of hidden unit errlimit=0.05; %maximum error limit Ntrials = 10; % no. of trials for choosing the best network out=zeros(no,N); % output after the backpropagation for j=1:10 nh=j; %no.of hidden unit for trial=1:Ntrials %initialization wih =randn(nh,ni+1); who =randn(no,nh+1); neth=zeros(no,nh); outh=zeros(no,nh); delh=zeros(no,nh); netk=0; outk=0; delk=0; %out=zeros(no,N); iteration = 0; %c=number of iteration while(iteration < 1000) itera...

[News] Nokia Releases New GNU/Linux Operating System (Maemo 5 1.2009.44.1), Adds Linux to Ovi
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Nokia N900 Firmware Update Version v1.2009.44.1 ,----[ Quote ] | The Nokia N900 is a 3.5-inch smartphone | running the Maemo 5 OS, which is an | operating system based on Linux. It’s also | the first Nokia device to run the OS and as | a result has gathered a great deal of | praise. `---- http://experts.thelink.co.uk/2010/01/12/nokia-n900-firmware-update-version-v12009441/ Nokia says opens Linux version of Ovi Store ,----[ Quote ] | The world's top cellphone maker Nokia said | on Tuesday it has opened a version of its | software store for its flagship N900 model, | which runs the Linux operating system. `---- http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=7701414&subject=general&action=article Nokia adds Ovi Store to N900 via firmware update http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/332322/nokia_adds_ovi_store_n900_via_firmware_update/ Google Maps with GPS on the Nokia N900 ,----[ Quote ] | Open Source means that you never have to wait | for any company to release software in a rigid | fashion. We are talking about the Nokia N900 | and the Maemo platform. `---- http://www.fonearena.com/blog/2010/01/16/google-maps-with-gps-on-the-nokia-n900.html Recent: Nokia: We’ll match Apple by 2011 ,----[ Quote ] | "If he had wanted to debunk those rumors that | it might buy Palm, Nokia's new mobile phones | head Rick Simonson could have picked a more | outright denial," Robert Andrew...

Installer for BDB 4.1.25/BDBXML 1.1.0
Hi all, At http://www.klamann-software.de/Community/index.html you will find a windows install package for Python 2.3 and Java language bindings for Sleepycat Berkeley DB 4.1.25 and Berkeley DB/XML 1.1.0. The installer will install the release versions of the berkeley DLLs, and optionally allows installation of the Python 2.3 and Java language bindings if they are installed, along with samples and documentation. Emiliano Hi, Where can I find source for Berkely DB/XML Python bindings? Regards Czarek "Emiliano Heyns" <nospam@iris-advies.nl> wrote in message news:bm40l...

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