A better UI does *not* mean a lack of choice!

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The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.

In general:
* stairs are built to be consistent, each step the same rise and run.
* faucets are built to be consistent, cold on the right; hot on the left.
* stop signs are consistent, always an octagon and not a triangle
* phones are consistent, numbers in the same order
* keyboard are consistent, keys in the same places
* books are consistent, each chapter having the same font and margins
* door handles are consistently at the same height

On and on.  Oh, sure, there are *user* based reasons where these things
differ and even regional differences, but if you look at any given house or
even set of houses you will find amazing consistency.

This has *nothing* to do with suppressing diversity or limiting choices.  If
someone *wants* to have half the faucets in their house have cold on the
"wrong" side and then wants to publish a book where every 7 words the font
changes for no reason, by all means go for it.  If someone wants to place
some door handles real high and others real low in their house, no problem -
you can do that.

But people do not do that... not by and large anyway.  Why?  Well, it is
*obvious*.  They want ease of use.  They want to reduce errors in using
these tools.  They want predictability.  They want an attractive look.

They want... consistency.

The UI on a computer is in the same class.  Sure, with each of the things I
list, above, you can look at different details, but in each case consistency
is *good*.  It is the norm.  It is *helps* people to be *more* productive or
to get more enjoyment.  Do you think people are too stupid to figure out C
is for cold?  Of course not... but that cold faucet is *still* on the right.
Nothing to do with people being able or unable to figure out which faucet to
use.

And yet, when it is noted that these same common sense and, frankly, obvious
ideas apply to computer systems as well - and research and expert opinion
and GUI manuals all back this up - we are "treated" in COLA to straw men
claiming that to want this is to want to reduce choice or to force things on
people.

Those that push these claims over and over and over show they have no
understanding (or they are just lying).  Either way, they show no
understanding of what is, really, easy.  And it has *nothing* to do with
limiting choice.  *Nothing* to do with people being unable to use dialogs
that are different.

Now, if Linux does mature to the point where desktop distros can have
internal consistency, this will *increase* efficiency, *boost* comfort
levels, *reduce* errors, etc.  Research shows this; expert opinion agrees;
many OSS projects have documentation that support this idea.  And, really,
it is common sense.

If you have consistency and flexibility you also give *more* choices.  You,
the user, want to have your print dialogs have a small print preview right
in the dialog... excellent... you can.  Someone else wants an easy way to
convert any printed document to a PDF and have it emailed - no problem.
Select the Print dialog you want for the *system* and you have made a choice
that effects your whole experience.  You, the user, want to be able to have
search capabilities in your File Open dialogs... excellent... just pick one
with that feature.  You want your file dialogs to have icon, list, detail,
and column views... excellent, you can do that, too.  Instead you want a
bare-bones Open dialog... OK, you can have that instead.  No problem.  And,
of course, you should be able to over-ride the system norms for any program
you want... if for some reason you want that.

More choice than you have on Linux now.  Far more choice.

More choice.  More flexibility.  More control for the user.

Not a thing taken away.  Not one thing.

Whew... now can we put the contrary myths to rest.  Finally?  Please?


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 2:54:54 PM

See related articles to this posting


On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:

> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
> 
There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".

-- 
Rick
0
Reply Rick 1/9/2010 3:24:48 PM

Rick stated in post CO2dnXVHmvZdAtXWnZ2dnUVZ_sdi4p2d@supernews.com on 1/9/10
8:24 AM:

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>> 
> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".

In your opinion.

Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system.  Not just in my
opinion, but in the opinion of many, as you have been shown.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 3:27:57 PM

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:27:57 -0700, Snit wrote:

> Rick stated in post CO2dnXVHmvZdAtXWnZ2dnUVZ_sdi4p2d@supernews.com on
> 1/9/10 8:24 AM:
> 
>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>>> 
>> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".
> 
> In your opinion.

No, it is a fact. There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".


> 
> Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system. 

That doesn't make it true. From a "user perspective", the sun revolves 
around the Earth.

> Not just in
> my opinion, but in the opinion of many, as you have been shown.

That doesn't make it true.

-- 
Rick
0
Reply Rick 1/9/2010 3:34:12 PM

Rick stated in post CO2dnXdHmvZpPNXWnZ2dnUVZ_sdi4p2d@supernews.com on 1/9/10
8:34 AM:

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:27:57 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> Rick stated in post CO2dnXVHmvZdAtXWnZ2dnUVZ_sdi4p2d@supernews.com on
>> 1/9/10 8:24 AM:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>>>> 
>>> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".
>> 
>> In your opinion.
> 
> No, it is a fact. There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".

In your opinion!

>> Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system.
> 
> That doesn't make it true. From a "user perspective", the sun revolves
> around the Earth.

In your opinion!

>> Not just in
>> my opinion, but in the opinion of many, as you have been shown.
> 
> That doesn't make it true.

But you cannot show any contrary info.  Funny that... eh?  It is at least in
my opinion!

LOL!


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 3:39:22 PM

Rick wrote:

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>> 
> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".
> 

And thius is the umpteenth time that dishonest cretin Snot Michael Glasser 
has created a threa dwith the exact same title?
Did he also again start for the gazillionst time a "book metaphor" thread?

And why do you still respond to that leech?
-- 
Only two things are infinite,
 the Universe and Stupidity.
And I'm not quite sure about the former.
        - Albert Einstein

0
Reply Peter 1/9/2010 3:47:15 PM

Peter K�hlmann stated in post hia8e3$pbu$02$1@news.t-online.com on 1/9/10
8:47 AM:

> Rick wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>>> 
>> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".
>> 
> 
> And thius is the umpteenth time that dishonest cretin Snot Michael Glasser
> has created a threa dwith the exact same title?
> Did he also again start for the gazillionst time a "book metaphor" thread?
> 
> And why do you still respond to that leech?

I post it when people ask about the concepts I have talked about.  Oh no!


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 3:51:27 PM

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:47:15 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Rick wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
>> 
>>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>>> 
>> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".
>> 
>> 
> And thius is the umpteenth time that dishonest cretin Snot Michael
> Glasser has created a threa dwith the exact same title? Did he also
> again start for the gazillionst time a "book metaphor" thread?

Yes, he did. And he apparently still can't answer if the book, or the 
chapter or the page is analagous to the distro, the graphic environment, 
the UI or...

> 
> And why do you still respond to that leech?

Well, I did snip most almost all of his BS and added only the one line, 
and didn't respond to his book or stair posts.

-- 
Rick
0
Reply Rick 1/9/2010 4:00:20 PM

Rick stated in post 6LadnSq7o6-JNdXWnZ2dnUVZ_rdi4p2d@supernews.com on 1/9/10
9:00 AM:

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:47:15 +0100, Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> 
>> Rick wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>>>> 
>>> There is no "the UI of desktop Linux".
>>> 
>>> 
>> And thius is the umpteenth time that dishonest cretin Snot Michael
>> Glasser has created a threa dwith the exact same title? Did he also
>> again start for the gazillionst time a "book metaphor" thread?
> 
> Yes, he did. And he apparently still can't answer if the book, or the
> chapter or the page is analagous to the distro, the graphic environment,
> the UI or...

You *still* have no idea that the analogy is talking about the *system*.
Wow.  Just wow.  Really, the fact you are still so lost is, well, amazing.

>> And why do you still respond to that leech?
> 
> Well, I did snip most almost all of his BS and added only the one line,
> and didn't respond to his book or stair posts.

Of course you did not respond... your only responses are "in your opinion",
"herd mentality" and "get the last word".  You really have no idea what you
are talking about.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 4:09:06 PM

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:

> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.

How many times are you going to post this same crap?
Hint: Nobody cares.

You must be one hell of an OCD sufferer.
Please suffer alone and leave us be.


-- 
Nothingspecial
Pickers Rule!
1/9/2010 11:57:07 AM
0
Reply Nothingspecial 1/9/2010 4:58:09 PM

Nothingspecial stated in post 1vx4ws2lpr0lp.yk9plu8rlxm3$.dlg@40tude.net on
1/9/10 9:58 AM:

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
> 
> How many times are you going to post this same crap?
> Hint: Nobody cares.
> 
> You must be one hell of an OCD sufferer.
> Please suffer alone and leave us be.
> 
I post it when people note that they did not understand it when they first
saw it.  I suppose I could just give them links back to it.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 5:00:07 PM

On 2010-01-09, the following emerged from the brain of Rick:
> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:27:57 -0700, Snit wrote:
>> 
>> Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system. 
>
> That doesn't make it true. From a "user perspective", the sun revolves 
> around the Earth.

That's a very good remark you make there. In his perception of the
GNU/Linux and F/OSS ecosystems, Snit clearly falls in the 'sun
revolves around the earth' category.

-- 
Attempted murder, now honestly, what is that? Do they give a
Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?
	~ Sideshow Bob
0
Reply TomB 1/9/2010 6:44:27 PM

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:44:27 -0600, TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2010-01-09, the following emerged from the brain of Rick:
>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:27:57 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>> Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system.
>>
>> That doesn't make it true. From a "user perspective", the sun revolves
>> around the Earth.
>
> That's a very good remark you make there. In his perception of the
> GNU/Linux and F/OSS ecosystems, Snit clearly falls in the 'sun
> revolves around the earth' category.
>
Of course, since that's what it looks like for a Linux user.

-- 
//ceed
0
Reply ceed 1/9/2010 7:28:39 PM

TomB stated in post 20100109185139.410@usenet.drumscum.be on 1/9/10 11:44
AM:

> On 2010-01-09, the following emerged from the brain of Rick:
>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:27:57 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>> 
>>> Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system.
>> 
>> That doesn't make it true. From a "user perspective", the sun revolves
>> around the Earth.
> 
> That's a very good remark you make there. In his perception of the
> GNU/Linux and F/OSS ecosystems, Snit clearly falls in the 'sun
> revolves around the earth' category.

Remember, I have pointed to several sources to back up my view.  Here they
are again:

<http://www.ambysoft.com/essays/userInterfaceDesign.html>
    -----
    A fundamental reality of application development is that the
    user interface is the system to the users.�
    -----
    
<http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.16.4460>
    -----
    The Human-Computer Interface is the System: A Plea for a Poor
    Man's HCI Component in Software Engineering Curricula
    -----
    
<http://www.umsl.edu/~sauterv/analysis/prototyping/intro.html>
    -----
    FROM THE POINT OF THE USER, THE INTERFACE IS THE SYSTEM
    -----
    
<http://www.left-brain.com/tabId/65/itemId/1567/The-Essential-Guide-to-User-
Interface-Design-An-I.aspx>
    -----
    No one likes to use a UI that's designed with too little
    thought. Galitz best sums up this idea when he states that
    the "user interface is the most important part of any
    computer system. Why? It is the system to most users.
    -----

If you have a different view I would love to hear you try to explain it!
For that matter, I would love to hear how you jump from that to the bizarre
claim that from my perspective the sun revolves around the Earth!



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 7:32:17 PM

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> TomB stated in post 20100109185139.410@usenet.drumscum.be on 1/9/10 11:44
> AM:
>
>> On 2010-01-09, the following emerged from the brain of Rick:
>>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:27:57 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Remember: from a user perspective, the UI *is* the system.
>>> 
>>> That doesn't make it true. From a "user perspective", the sun revolves
>>> around the Earth.
>> 
>> That's a very good remark you make there. In his perception of the
>> GNU/Linux and F/OSS ecosystems, Snit clearly falls in the 'sun
>> revolves around the earth' category.
>
> Remember, I have pointed to several sources to back up my view.  Here they
> are again:
>
> <http://www.ambysoft.com/essays/userInterfaceDesign.html>
>     -----
>     A fundamental reality of application development is that the
>     user interface is the system to the users. 
>     -----
>
> <http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.16.4460>
>     -----
>     The Human-Computer Interface is the System: A Plea for a Poor
>     Man's HCI Component in Software Engineering Curricula
>     -----
>
> <http://www.umsl.edu/~sauterv/analysis/prototyping/intro.html>
>     -----
>     FROM THE POINT OF THE USER, THE INTERFACE IS THE SYSTEM
>     -----
>
> <http://www.left-brain.com/tabId/65/itemId/1567/The-Essential-Guide-to-User-
> Interface-Design-An-I.aspx>
>     -----
>     No one likes to use a UI that's designed with too little
>     thought. Galitz best sums up this idea when he states that
>     the "user interface is the most important part of any
>     computer system. Why? It is the system to most users.
>     -----
>
> If you have a different view I would love to hear you try to explain it!
> For that matter, I would love to hear how you jump from that to the bizarre
> claim that from my perspective the sun revolves around the Earth!

While not one of the loony "advocates" TomB has rather strange thought
processes that orientate about what he THINKS he likes as opposed to the
greater good. Suggesting downloading, making, unarchiving etc from a
constantly open root terminal is OK is one such bit of maverick
behaviour.


0
Reply Hadron 1/9/2010 7:35:01 PM

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:

>  If someone *wants* to have half the faucets in their house have cold on
the "wrong" side [...] by all means go for it

The debate is like manual (DOS), automatic (Windows) or autostick. Linux
is autostick.

-- 
// This is my opinion.
0
Reply jebblue 1/9/2010 8:00:29 PM

Hadron stated in post hialp6$fpd$1@hadron.eternal-september.org on 1/9/10
12:35 PM:

....
>> Remember, I have pointed to several sources to back up my view.  Here they
>> are again:
>> 
>> <http://www.ambysoft.com/essays/userInterfaceDesign.html>
>>     -----
>>     A fundamental reality of application development is that the
>>     user interface is the system to the users.�
>>     -----
>> 
>> <http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.16.4460>
>>     -----
>>     The Human-Computer Interface is the System: A Plea for a Poor
>>     Man's HCI Component in Software Engineering Curricula
>>     -----
>> 
>> <http://www.umsl.edu/~sauterv/analysis/prototyping/intro.html>
>>     -----
>>     FROM THE POINT OF THE USER, THE INTERFACE IS THE SYSTEM
>>     -----
>> 
>> <http://www.left-brain.com/tabId/65/itemId/1567/The-Essential-Guide-to-User-
>> Interface-Design-An-I.aspx>
>>     -----
>>     No one likes to use a UI that's designed with too little
>>     thought. Galitz best sums up this idea when he states that
>>     the "user interface is the most important part of any
>>     computer system. Why? It is the system to most users.
>>     -----
>> 
>> If you have a different view I would love to hear you try to explain it!
>> For that matter, I would love to hear how you jump from that to the bizarre
>> claim that from my perspective the sun revolves around the Earth!
> 
> While not one of the loony "advocates" TomB has rather strange thought
> processes that orientate about what he THINKS he likes as opposed to the
> greater good. Suggesting downloading, making, unarchiving etc from a
> constantly open root terminal is OK is one such bit of maverick
> behaviour.

His current comments about how the only way developers will do things such
as make improvements in UI consistency and quality are if they are forced is
just bizarre to me.  He has yet to explain who "forced" the folks who make
KDE, Gnome, OpenOffice, Firefox, Ubuntu and others to work in that
direction.  Maybe he thinks things have gone as far as they can without
force?  I really look forward to his explanation... as you note, he is not
one of the "loony" advocates - maybe he actually will explain himself well
(or acknowledge he just made a mistake - it happens).



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 8:13:10 PM

jebblue stated in post xqOdnT4uH_fAfdXWnZ2dnUVZ_sti4p2d@giganews.com on
1/9/10 1:00 PM:

> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
> 
>>  If someone *wants* to have half the faucets in their house have cold on
> the "wrong" side [...] by all means go for it
> 
> The debate is like manual (DOS), automatic (Windows) or autostick. Linux
> is autostick.

No.  The debate is nothing like that.  The debate is to follow or not to
follow the basic tenants of the established science of UI research that
shows how to improve productivity, increase efficiency, and reduce errors.
I am on the side of saying users should have the *choice* of following such
research (*not* that it should be forced on them).  There are different
ideas that come from such research, and not all research applies to each
person or situation, so *of course* there should be distros with different
options and users should be able to override this.

The argument against this is that it is too hard... or that developers would
need to be forced to do things better (even though many already are - with
no force)... or that by adding this class of choices I would somehow be
forcing "one true way" (which makes no sense)...

There really is no *good* argument that has been presented to say why
working to add such choices to desktop Linux would be anything other than a
huge benefit for desktop Linux (which is not to say it can happen overnight
or I would expect it to be perfect!)


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply Snit 1/9/2010 10:19:01 PM

Micoshaft Appil asstroturfing fraudster with a big girlie butt pounding the
sock Snit wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Appil
Department of Marketing:


> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
> 
> In general:
> * stairs are built to be consistent, each step the same rise and run.

Nope.

You can trip on them and not efficient use of space
and you get mesmorized.

Nice try but no, you just don't understand anything.

Is English your only language?


They have to change directions and height to make then compact
and use short runs to avoid mesmorizing effects.


The best UI interface in the world is provided by the
Sheeva Plug. (The next version is out already.)
Companies like appil and micoshaft are lost when it
comes to marketing such a product. Their corporate designers are
too thick to understand and probably puke up in their
own vomit of confusion and epileptic convulsion when
presented with Sheeva Plug.

There is a lot of things you can do with a Sheevaplug
like for example this post which is sent from a Sheevaplug!

More enclosed below.

Understanding Design is a lot more involved than
fantasizing about stair wells. Better luck next time.




SHEEVA PLUG

http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp
http://plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/Category:HowTo
http://www.plugcomputer.org/
http://computingplugs.com/index.php/Installing_X11  - installing VNCServer


Sheevaplug - pure Linux geek juice!!!
-------------------------------------

http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp

Not very often you get a high end distro like Ubuntu 9.04
and a cheap embedded Linux developer system that is also
capable of running a high end distro.

The $99 Sheevaplug is very much it.

You get a mains adapter size box with a plug to
plug into mains. It has ethernet link, SDCard, USB
and a mini USB serial port.

Nothing else.

No monitor port, no keyboard, no mouse port, no nothing.
Its also running on an ARM chip!

So what does it do except sit there and do nothing?

Welll..... its the ultimate food from the
gods sent to geeks!!!

Since it has 'nothing' you have to bring it alive yourself
and mould it to your whims!!!


It is pure geek wallowing in Linux from here on in...


First connect the mini USB serial port to your
Linux Ubuntu desktop USB port. Running dmesg in a console
window shows it has been recognised and installed as /dev/ttyUSB1
The mini-usb plug is very flimsy and such small connectors are utterly 
dodgy!
If the ftdi serial port chip is not recognised then manually
install the driver:
	sudo modprobe ftdi_sio vendor=0x9e88 product=0x9e8f
(My desktop is Ubuntu.)

You now need some software to talk to the Sheevaplug.
Install minicom with
	apt-get install minicom
in a console window.

Then run
	minicom -s
to and change set up for 115200 baud 8 bits, N for no parity, 1 stop bit.
Change the default serial device to /dev/ttyUSB1
Press return to save changes.
Press save changes as default
Then Exit minicom.
Then run
	minicom
again, and now you are connecting OK to the Sheeva plug through the
serial port.

Login as root with password nosoup4u
(yup that is the default password!)

First off change the password to something you like with the
	passwd
command.

You can issue command like
	shutdown -r now
and see the computer shutting down and rebooting like a real
computer through minicom.

Log back in, connect up the ethernet, give it a few
seconds and then enter
	ifconfig
It shows the IP address of the Sheevaplug.

Now you can abandon the minicom console and start another
bash console window and connect via ssh!!!
	ssh root@ipaddress_of_sheevaplug
So now you are in and looking around.

If you have konqueror installed on your desktop computer,
you can also get in by opening konqueror and entering in the URL
	fish://root@ipaddress_of_sheevaplug
to snoop around to see what other software has been pre-installed.

First thing to do is to get the existing OS of the internal
flash chip (to avoid wearing it down) and run it off an SD Card
formatted with EXT2 to minimise wearing down the SD Card.

The instructions are here
http://plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/Category:HowTo
(Choose from all the howto available in that document
 and don't use EXT3, use EXT2 - EXT3 will wear down your
 SD Card. I used a 16Gb SD card and set aside 1Gb for swap
 space - excessive because I didn't want to risk running
 out of space for later parts of the experiments)


Having transferred everything off the internal flash and booting
off the SDcard allows you the freedom to install
lots of new software.

First off tried to get this useful utility installed
	apt-get install wget

But it came up with error message - the issue is that two
directories are always in RAM and can get filled - so it forgets
to create them whenever Sheevaplug boots.
So create these two directories to get apt-get working

mkdir /var/cache/apt/archives
mkdir /var/cache/apt/archives/partial

Then I test downloaded a file using wget.
I then copied out the file from the sheevaplug using scp command.
So in effect the sheevaplug has just become my downloader
device consuming 5W that can be left running all night if need be.

and then installed away more stuff like the following

apt-get install lynx
apt-get install rsync
apt-get install youtube-dl
apt-get install sqlite3
apt-get install bash
apt-get install xterm

(If your /var/cache/apt/archives gets full,
then reboot the sheeva plug and recreate the
directories again)

(installing bash might have been redundant - but even
 if redundant, you can see how it reacts to the command
 to see if updates are available)

then I did

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade 

to upgrade the Linux to the latest version (but you may
have to do that before installing anything if some
of the packages got updated).

Then tried to get VNC server working
http://computingplugs.com/index.php/Installing_X11
Got that working.
(Be weary if you follow instructions to recompile from
 source in that link to get xterm working
 Your dependency checking may go out the window.)

And then got vncserver finally working!!!!
So even through Sheevaplug has no graphics card,
I can still get a VNC session on it going!!!

Then installed more complex software

apt-get install firefox
apt-get install pan
apt-get install openoffice.org
apt-get install mysql-server
apt-get install qcad
apt-get install konqueror
apt-get install xpdf
apt-get install dillo
apt-get install gnumeric
apt-get install abiword
apt-get install apache2
apt-get install dosbox (yes! and it works well!)
apt-get install kmail
apt-get install synaptic
apt-get install onboard  (on screen keyboard)
apt-get install kwrite
apt-get install ytree
apt-get install mc
apt-get install streamripper
apt-get install mpg123	(mp3 player)

All in all 2Gb of software got installed.
Your luck will vary as the software is
constantly being updated (and broken)
so wait a day if something doesn't work
and try again. [My current install has problems
starting X and crashes first time but
second time its OK when running applications
like firefox.] Some things like gambas2 and
its libs are not in the arm repositories yet, so
not everything can work just yet anyway.

GUI software like firefox I can use 
	ssh -X root@ipaddress_of_sheevaplug
and then run 
	firefox
to get it to run as a remote X session.

Same with pan, open office, konqueror, gnumeric, abiword,
xpdf, qcad and dillo.

Apache server and mysql server is running!
Its turned the sheevaplug into a powerful server.

But also desktop features available too...

I ran pan (newsreader) and change pan to use dillo (webrowser)
instead of firefox and I get near full speed
reading newsgroups and browsing links
even through I am running remote X session.

Running firefox or dillo with remote X session
is also a safer bet - I can move all the dodgy website
browsing to the sheevaplug and change the SD card if some
dodgy infection is suspected.

For $99, the sheeva plug is 1.2GHz ARM with 512Mbytes of
RAM and 512Mbytes of flash and from the above
you can see it runs a full version
of Ubuntu very well!!!
The hardware is open and the sofwtare is all open source
so you can go make your own hardware and install as much
software as the repositories and memory chips/hard disks
can carry.


This post is brought to you from the Sheevaplug
running knode through a remote x session
on the main desktop computer :-)



0
Reply website_has_email (7030) 1/10/2010 1:49:52 PM

7 wrote:

> Nope.

Just plonk Shit.  It's more than obvious that it is illogical to compare 
computer UI's to mechanical systems that have an entirely different set 
of design criteria due to the mechanics of the things that they interface 
with.
0
Reply chrisv (22840) 1/10/2010 2:19:47 PM

7 stated in post 4Wk2n.24349$Ym4.7709@text.news.virginmedia.com on 1/10/10
6:49 AM:

> Micoshaft Appil asstroturfing fraudster with a big girlie butt pounding the
> sock Snit wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Appil
> Department of Marketing:
> 
> 
>> The problem with the UI of desktop Linux is obvious.
>> 
>> In general:
>> * stairs are built to be consistent, each step the same rise and run.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> You can trip on them and not efficient use of space
> and you get mesmorized.
> 
> Nice try but no, you just don't understand anything.

<http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Stairbuilding_Basics-Stairs-A1981.html
>
    -----
    For safety, codes regulate tread depths and riser heights,
    and they also require steps to be uniform�uneven steps can
    trip people up.
    -----

I figured this was common knowledge.  Amazing what you do not know.
> 
> Is English your only language?
> 
> 
> They have to change directions and height to make then compact
> and use short runs to avoid mesmorizing effects.

What?  Please try to defend this!

.... 



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]


0
Reply usenet2 (47889) 1/10/2010 2:44:23 PM

On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:19:01 -0700, Snit wrote:

> jebblue stated in post xqOdnT4uH_fAfdXWnZ2dnUVZ_sti4p2d@giganews.com on
> 1/9/10 1:00 PM:
> 
>> On Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:54:54 -0700, Snit wrote:
>> 
>>>  If someone *wants* to have half the faucets in their house have cold
>>>  on
>> the "wrong" side [...] by all means go for it
>> 
>> The debate is like manual (DOS), automatic (Windows) or autostick.
>> Linux is autostick.
> 
> No.  The debate is nothing like that.

A good Canon camera is like the debate. You can leave it on automatic
and most of the time it takes great pictures. Sometimes you want to get
creative though and you can put it in manual. Linux us like a good camera
that can do automatic or manual.

-- 
// This is my opinion.
0
Reply jebblue 1/10/2010 5:27:50 PM
comp.os.linux.advocacy 119535 articles. 13 followers. Post

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