I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
install Windows or not do the update.

Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>install Windows or not do the update.

>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!

In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
update.

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>install Windows or not do the update.
>
>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>
> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
> update.

Some of us don't have any copies of Windows to install on a "spare"
hard drive.

-- 
Jesse Hughes
"Well, if I can get [my proof of FLT accepted], then I hopefully get a
book deal down the road, and maybe I get to go on 'Oprah'."
  James Harris, on the rewards of mathematical endeavours.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:

> I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
> had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
> win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
> update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
> install Windows or not do the update.
> 
> Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!

checkout these links for Samsung firmware :

RPC1 region free firmware for Samsung drives :
http://etna.rpc1.org/samsung/index.html

DOS based Flash program for the above Firmwares:
http://etna.rpc1.org/mt/index.html

Robert
-- 
Robert M. Stockmann - RHCE
Network Engineer - UNIX/Linux Specialist
crashrecovery.org  stock@stokkie.net

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:31:51 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

> TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
> 
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They
>>>only had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it
>>>was a win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the
>>>firmware update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either
>>>had to install Windows or not do the update.
>>
>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>
>> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>> update.
> 
> Some of us don't have any copies of Windows to install on a "spare" hard
> drive.

WINE -might- work.
-- 
Rick

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:

> I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
> had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
> win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
> update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
> install Windows or not do the update.
> 
> Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!

While you're complaining to them about sucking Gates's cock, please be sure
to thank them for releasing printers that they certify as Linux compatible. 

-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>install Windows or not do the update.
> 
>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
> 
> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
> update.

No thanks.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:31:51 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>>install Windows or not do the update.
>>
>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>
>> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>> update.

>Some of us don't have any copies of Windows to install on a "spare"
>hard drive.

Don't know anybody on the planet running windows?  Must be nice.

Any windows oem disk will work.  Any XP disk.  It doesn't have to be
activated.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:27:50 GMT, Rick <rick@none.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:31:51 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

>> TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They
>>>>only had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it
>>>>was a win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the
>>>>firmware update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either
>>>>had to install Windows or not do the update.
>>>
>>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>>
>>> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>> update.
>> 
>> Some of us don't have any copies of Windows to install on a "spare" hard
>> drive.

>WINE -might- work.

not a fucking chance.  A peripheral bios flashing program must talk to
the hardware directly, at least issue commands at the IDE driver level.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:

>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>>install Windows or not do the update.
>> 
>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>> 
>> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>> update.

>No thanks.

Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
problem.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
> 
>>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>>>install Windows or not do the update.
>>> 
>>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>> 
>>> In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>> update.
> 
>>No thanks.
> 
> Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
> problem.

I've already solved the problem.

But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:08:37 +0000, Simon Cooke wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:
> 
>> I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>> had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>> win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>> update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>> install Windows or not do the update.
>> 
>> Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
> 
> While you're complaining to them about sucking Gates's cock, please be sure
> to thank them for releasing printers that they certify as Linux compatible.

Do the existence of these Linux compatible printers make my problem any
less annoying? No.

billy nelson wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>>>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>>>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>>>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>>>>install Windows or not do the update.
>>>>
>>>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>>>
>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>update.
>>
>>>No thanks.
>>
>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>problem.
> 
> 
> I've already solved the problem.
> 
> But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
> getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
> 

Surely you have a friend who has a Windows machine already put together.

What, no friends?  Surprising ...

-- 
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

billy nelson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:08:37 +0000, Simon Cooke wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>>install Windows or not do the update.
>>>
>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>
>>While you're complaining to them about sucking Gates's cock, please be sure
>>to thank them for releasing printers that they certify as Linux compatible.
> 
> 
> Do the existence of these Linux compatible printers make my problem any
> less annoying? No.
> 

Consequently, your whining is equally annoying. Do what TCS said and 
move on with your life.

billy nelson wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
>>>>>had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
>>>>>win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
>>>>>update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
>>>>>install Windows or not do the update.
>>>>
>>>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>>>
>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>update.
>>
>>>No thanks.
>>
>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>problem.
> 
> 
> I've already solved the problem.
> 
> But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
> getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
> 

It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting Linux. 
What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect that 
every one of your componants would be fully supported?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

nikoli wrote:

> It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
> Linux.

Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote
with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send
receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).

> What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect that
> every one of your componants would be fully supported?

I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a cheaper
machine with better quality components that way.  However, that was
before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or any other for
that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally better supported than
some of the junk you get in ready-made computers these days.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFA0z+sd1ZThqotgfgRAj6EAJ4mEilqVFF/ucptcAwz3trtzd5kLQCgx3vC
SW0wRqeETOcFiC+6Dx0FcR4=
=d08T
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
PeKaJe

How many Zen Buddhist does it take to change a light bulb?
Two.  One to change it and one not to change it.

On 18 Jun 2004 19:17:09 GMT, Peter Jensen <usenet@pekajemaps.homeip.net> wrote:

>nikoli wrote:

>> It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
>> Linux.

>Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
>fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote
>with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send
>receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
>manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).

>> What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect that
>> every one of your componants would be fully supported?

>I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
>originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a cheaper
>machine with better quality components that way.  However, that was
>before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or any other for
>that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally better supported than
>some of the junk you get in ready-made computers these days.

If the drive couldn't be used with linux then the griping would be
justified. 

But we're just talking about a firmware update.  Sheesh!  How often is
that necessary?  Once?  More time has been spent bitching about it than
would be needed to find a windoze machine to load the firmware update.

Peter Jensen wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> nikoli wrote:
> 
> 
>>It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
>>Linux.
> 
> 
> Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
> fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote
> with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send
> receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
> manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).

Macs more fringe than Linux !?!?! That's a new one. Guess I shouldn't be 
suprised by anything I read in these advocacy groups... but that level 
of BS is a level I haven't seen yet. Anywho, it's very silly to complain 
about any company not fully supporting Linux... you've just got to 
expect that.

And this is just a firmware update. How freakin lame of you to whine 
about a firmware update. Especially when the drive already works within 
Linux! What exactly are you expecting from this update anyway?

> 
> 
>>What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect that
>>every one of your componants would be fully supported?
> 
> 
> I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
> originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a cheaper
> machine with better quality components that way.  However, that was
> before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or any other for
> that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally better supported than
> some of the junk you get in ready-made computers these days.
> 

Welp, guess you should've built one with Linux in mind then. That's just 
the way it is... you've got to make sure it's gonna work in Linux 
because Linux can't make sure for you... not yet anyway.

BTW, I built my own too. I don't think I'll ever buy a ready-made PC.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:05:50 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:24:04 -0500, TCS wrote:

>> On 18 Jun 2004 19:17:09 GMT, Peter Jensen <usenet@pekajemaps.homeip.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>nikoli wrote:
>> 
>>>> It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
>>>> Linux.
>> 
>>>Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more fringe
>>>than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote with my
>>>wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send receipts for
>>>Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware manufacturers, along
>>>with an explanation of why they lost a sale).
>> 
>>>> What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect that
>>>> every one of your componants would be fully supported?
>> 
>>>I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
>>>originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a cheaper
>>>machine with better quality components that way.  However, that was
>>>before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or any other for
>>>that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally better supported than
>>>some of the junk you get in ready-made computers these days.
>> 
>> If the drive couldn't be used with linux then the griping would be

>> justified.
>> 
>> But we're just talking about a firmware update.  Sheesh!  How often is
>> that necessary?  Once?  More time has been spent bitching about it than
>> would be needed to find a windoze machine to load the firmware update.

>Stop whining, dickhead.

bwahahahahahaha!  Thanks for the funniest whine I've read all week!

billy nelson wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:00:31 -0500, nikoli wrote:
> 
> 
>>Peter Jensen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>>nikoli wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
>>>fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote
>>>with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send
>>>receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
>>>manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).
>>
>>Macs more fringe than Linux !?!?! That's a new one. Guess I shouldn't be
>>suprised by anything I read in these advocacy groups... but that level of
>>BS is a level I haven't seen yet. Anywho, it's very silly to complain
>>about any company not fully supporting Linux... you've just got to expect
>>that.
>>
>>And this is just a firmware update. How freakin lame of you to whine about
>>a firmware update. Especially when the drive already works within Linux!
>>What exactly are you expecting from this update anyway?
> 
> 
> Peter Jensen doesn't expect anything from my firmware update, you
> fucking idiot.
> 


Can you answer the question? Or do you just call names in order to dodge 
  questions you can't answer?

CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> writes:

> billy nelson wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>>update.
>>>
>>>>No thanks.
>>>
>>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>>problem.
>> 
>> 
>> I've already solved the problem.
>> 
>> But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
>> getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
>> 
>
> Surely you have a friend who has a Windows machine already put together.
>
> What, no friends?  Surprising ...

Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.

-- 
"But remember, as long as one human being follows the rules of
mathematics, then mathematics as a human discipline survives.
Right now I'm that one human being, so mathematics survives."
                 -- James S. Harris

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> writes:

>> billy nelson wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>>>update.
>>>>
>>>>>No thanks.
>>>>
>>>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>>>problem.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've already solved the problem.
>>> 
>>> But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
>>> getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
>>> 
>>
>> Surely you have a friend who has a Windows machine already put together.
>>
>> What, no friends?  Surprising ...

>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.


How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
Boycott the world!

I guess it's a good fucking thing firmware doesn't have to be
updated on a routine basis.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:24:04 -0500, TCS wrote:

> On 18 Jun 2004 19:17:09 GMT, Peter Jensen <usenet@pekajemaps.homeip.net>
> wrote:
> 
>>nikoli wrote:
> 
>>> It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
>>> Linux.
> 
>>Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more fringe
>>than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote with my
>>wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send receipts for
>>Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware manufacturers, along
>>with an explanation of why they lost a sale).
> 
>>> What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect that
>>> every one of your componants would be fully supported?
> 
>>I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
>>originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a cheaper
>>machine with better quality components that way.  However, that was
>>before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or any other for
>>that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally better supported than
>>some of the junk you get in ready-made computers these days.
> 
> If the drive couldn't be used with linux then the griping would be
> justified.
> 
> But we're just talking about a firmware update.  Sheesh!  How often is
> that necessary?  Once?  More time has been spent bitching about it than
> would be needed to find a windoze machine to load the firmware update.

Stop whining, dickhead.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:00:31 -0500, nikoli wrote:

> Peter Jensen wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> nikoli wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting Linux.
>> 
>> 
>> Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
>> fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just vote
>> with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to send
>> receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
>> manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).
> 
> Macs more fringe than Linux !?!?! That's a new one. Guess I shouldn't be
> suprised by anything I read in these advocacy groups... but that level of
> BS is a level I haven't seen yet. Anywho, it's very silly to complain
> about any company not fully supporting Linux... you've just got to expect
> that.
> 
> And this is just a firmware update. How freakin lame of you to whine about
> a firmware update. Especially when the drive already works within Linux!
> What exactly are you expecting from this update anyway?

Peter Jensen doesn't expect anything from my firmware update, you
fucking idiot.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:12:30 -0500, nikoli wrote:

> billy nelson wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:08:37 +0000, Simon Cooke wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They
>>>>only had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it
>>>>was a win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the
>>>>firmware update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I
>>>>either had to install Windows or not do the update.
>>>>
>>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>>
>>>While you're complaining to them about sucking Gates's cock, please be
>>>sure to thank them for releasing printers that they certify as Linux
>>>compatible.
>> 
>> 
>> Do the existence of these Linux compatible printers make my problem any
>> less annoying? No.
>> 
>> 
> Consequently, your whining is equally annoying. Do what TCS said and move
> on with your life.

I can't. I'm far too emotionally crippled by Samsung's shoddy Linux
support for my drive.

What the fuck do you think I'm doing, dickoli?

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:19:55 -0500, nikoli wrote:

> Can you answer the question? Or do you just call names in order to dodge
>   questions you can't answer?

I call names in order to dodge questions I can answer, dickoli.

TCS wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
> 
>>CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>>billy nelson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>>>>update.
>>>>>
>>>>>>No thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>>>>problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've already solved the problem.
>>>>
>>>>But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
>>>>getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Surely you have a friend who has a Windows machine already put together.
>>>
>>>What, no friends?  Surprising ...
> 
> 
>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
> 
> 
> 
> How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
> god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
> Boycott the world!
> 
> I guess it's a good fucking thing firmware doesn't have to be
> updated on a routine basis.

I don't recall _ever_ having to update the firmware on a hard drive.

I only recall once that I even considered the possibility.

-- 
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:50:50 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>TCS wrote:

>> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>> 
>>>CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>>billy nelson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>>>>>update.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>>>>>problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I've already solved the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
>>>>>getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Surely you have a friend who has a Windows machine already put together.
>>>>
>>>>What, no friends?  Surprising ...
>> 
>> 
>>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
>> god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
>> Boycott the world!
>> 
>> I guess it's a good fucking thing firmware doesn't have to be
>> updated on a routine basis.

>I don't recall _ever_ having to update the firmware on a hard drive.
dvdrw actually


>I only recall once that I even considered the possibility.

billy nelson wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:12:30 -0500, nikoli wrote:
> 
> 
>>billy nelson wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:08:37 +0000, Simon Cooke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They
>>>>>only had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it
>>>>>was a win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the
>>>>>firmware update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I
>>>>>either had to install Windows or not do the update.
>>>>>
>>>>>Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!
>>>>
>>>>While you're complaining to them about sucking Gates's cock, please be
>>>>sure to thank them for releasing printers that they certify as Linux
>>>>compatible.
>>>
>>>
>>>Do the existence of these Linux compatible printers make my problem any
>>>less annoying? No.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Consequently, your whining is equally annoying. Do what TCS said and move
>>on with your life.
> 
> 
> I can't. I'm far too emotionally crippled by Samsung's shoddy Linux
> support for my drive.
> 
> What the fuck do you think I'm doing, dickoli?
> 


Welp, apparently you're gonna whine no matter what. Later dude.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:50:50 +0000, CJT wrote:


> I don't recall _ever_ having to update the firmware on a hard drive.
> 
> I only recall once that I even considered the possibility.

Wasn't he talking about a CDROM drive?
I've updated firmware on my TDK several times and got major increases in
speed.

Doesn't matter though, go to :
www.bootdisk.com

Download a bootable diskette and go from there.

-- 
Patricia Fitzhenry
Remove DEL to reply
Registered Linux user #358464

TCS wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:50:50 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
> 
>>TCS wrote:
> 
> 
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>billy nelson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:15:38 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 17:13:12 +0100, billy nelson <bn@nospam.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:09:25 -0500, TCS wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In the meantime, get a 1G hard drive put windows 9x on it and do the
>>>>>>>>>update.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Of course.  It's so much more fullfilling to whine rather than solve a
>>>>>>>problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've already solved the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But solving it your particular way meant buying a hard drive and somehow
>>>>>>getting hold of a Windows 98 disk. Don't you think that's a tad silly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Surely you have a friend who has a Windows machine already put together.
>>>>>
>>>>>What, no friends?  Surprising ...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
>>>god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
>>>Boycott the world!
>>>
>>>I guess it's a good fucking thing firmware doesn't have to be
>>>updated on a routine basis.
> 
> 
>>I don't recall _ever_ having to update the firmware on a hard drive.
> 
> dvdrw actually

Oh, that makes a lot more sense.  I guess the thread drifted a bit,
and I either missed part of it or wasn't paying close attention.

I'd just slam it into a Windows box and be done with it.  Sure, life
is unfair, but that's nothing new.

> 
> 
> 
>>I only recall once that I even considered the possibility.
> 
> 


-- 
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

nikoli wrote:

>>> It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
>>> Linux.
>> 
>> Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
>> fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just
>> vote with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to
>> send receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
>> manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).
> 
> Macs more fringe than Linux !?!?! That's a new one. Guess I shouldn't
> be suprised by anything I read in these advocacy groups... but that
> level of BS is a level I haven't seen yet.

I figured you'd say that, but please (just for once) *think* about what
I wrote, in the context I wrote it.  There is only one vendor of Macs,
so we know how big a market they have.  It's just a few percent.  Even
the most conservative estimates of Linux usage puts it in the same
region.

Now consider this from the hardware manufacturers perspective.  What are
they interested in?  Simple, customers.  Now look at the typical user of
Macs and Linux respectively.  The stereotypes are still somewhat
correct, Macs are primarily used by people who don't care much for
computers, while Linux is primarily used by the knowledgeable computer
user (lets just call them nerds, OK?).

What group of people do *you* think is more likely to buy new hardware
to enhance their machines?  Right, the nerds.  So shouldn't the hardware
manufacturer cater to the needs of those that are more likely to buy
from them?  Of course they should, but many of them don't yet realize
that.  Linux users could potentially be a much better market for them
than Mac users.  It was in *that* context I consider Macs more in the
fringe than Linux.  *That* is the reason I can't understand companies
that support Mac and not Linux.

> Anywho, it's very silly to complain about any company not fully
> supporting Linux... you've just got to expect that.

Why?  I'm the one with the money, they should listen to me or lose the
sale.  More importantly, they should look into the future.  Linux usage
is growing, no doubt about it.  However, if a company first gets a
reputation for not supporting Linux, the reputation will stick with them
for long after they do start supporting Linux.  It's not much we really
demand, either.  Release full specifications to your hardware and leave
the rest to us.

> And this is just a firmware update.

*Just* a firmware update?!?  Are you totally clueless as to how
important a firmware update can be?  If it wasn't for a firmware update,
the new hard disk in my workstation wouldn't be visible to my BIOS,
which makes it unbootable.  Fortunately ASUS provides a Flash ROM and a
DOS based utility to burn it.  This can easily be placed on any of the
DOS boot disk images available on places like http://bootdisk.com.

> How freakin lame of you to whine about a firmware update. Especially
> when the drive already works within Linux! What exactly are you
> expecting from this update anyway?

Why are you asking my?  I'm not the one "whining".  I just wanted to
explain why hardware manufacturers should be more supportive of Linux
users.

>>> What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect
>>> that every one of your componants would be fully supported?
>> 
>> I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
>> originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a
>> cheaper machine with better quality components that way.  However,
>> that was before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or
>> any other for that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally
>> better supported than some of the junk you get in ready-made
>> computers these days.
> 
> Welp, guess you should've built one with Linux in mind then.

Why should I have done that?  I didn't build my machine for Linux, but
just by choosing quality components, I found full support anyway.

> That's just the way it is... you've got to make sure it's gonna work
> in Linux because Linux can't make sure for you... not yet anyway.

Well, not with the attitude of hardware manufacturers today.  That's
what I endeavor to change, if only in my own small way.

> BTW, I built my own too. I don't think I'll ever buy a ready-made PC.

I did it because it's usually a bad deal, and I had been bit by low
quality unsupported parts before.  I fact, the reason I built my new
computer was because there was no BIOS upgrade for the old one, so it
could not see my new big hard disk.  This was when I was Windows-only,
so BIOS support was essential.  That machine now has Linux on it, which
is possibly because I just use the old small hard disk as a boot
partition, after which the Linux kernel has no trouble seeing my big new
hard disk.

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-- 
PeKaJe

Man's horizons are bounded by his vision.

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>
>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
>
>
> How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
> god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
> Boycott the world!

Installation is one thing.  Having to temporarily install an alternate
hard drive just to update firmware is another.  It's a pain in the
ass, no matter what you say, and it is not reasonable that one has to
jump through hoops like this to flash his firmware.

The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
firmware.

No idea why you think that the situation is so acceptable.  You work
for Samsung or something?

Would I boycott Samsung over this?  Not boycott exactly, but I would
think twice before buying a Samsung product no doubt.  If they expect
Windows just to flash the BIOS, then what else will be more difficult
with a non-MS OS?

-- 
Jesse Hughes
"Yes, I'm one of those arrogant people who tries to be quotable.
There is actually at least one person who quotes me often." 
                                                 -- James Harris

Patricia <patty_DELfitzhenry@yahoo.com> writes:

> Doesn't matter though, go to :
> www.bootdisk.com
>
> Download a bootable diskette and go from there.

Now *that* seems sensible advice (if it works for the OP).

-- 
Jesse Hughes
"Surround sound is going to be increasingly important in future
offices."
  -- Microsoft marketing manager displays his keen insight

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:54:55 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>Patricia <patty_DELfitzhenry@yahoo.com> writes:

>> Doesn't matter though, go to :
>> www.bootdisk.com
>>
>> Download a bootable diskette and go from there.

>Now *that* seems sensible advice (if it works for the OP).

The OP wasn't interested in sensible advice, just a forum to vent.

Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

> TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
>>
>>
>>How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
>>god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
>>Boycott the world!
> 
> 
> Installation is one thing.  Having to temporarily install an alternate
> hard drive just to update firmware is another.  It's a pain in the
> ass, no matter what you say, and it is not reasonable that one has to
> jump through hoops like this to flash his firmware.

It's perfectly reasonable. If you're going to use hardware that isn't 
fully supported by your OS, then you've got to take extra steps to do 
some things. It's what you signed up for after all.


> 
> The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
> firmware.

Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.

nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:

> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>
>> TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
>>>
>>>
>>>How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
>>>god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
>>>Boycott the world!
>> 
>> 
>> Installation is one thing.  Having to temporarily install an alternate
>> hard drive just to update firmware is another.  It's a pain in the
>> ass, no matter what you say, and it is not reasonable that one has to
>> jump through hoops like this to flash his firmware.
>
> It's perfectly reasonable. If you're going to use hardware that isn't 
> fully supported by your OS, then you've got to take extra steps to do 
> some things. It's what you signed up for after all.

This is just nonsense, no?

Aside from the firmware, *what* about Samsung's hard drives is not
"fully supported" by the OS?

The fact that the firmware flash requires Windows has nothing to do
with whether Linux supports the drive.

This response appears to be a cute catch-22.

(1) Samsung requires Windows to flash the BIOS.

(2) Well, you should expect problems when your OS doesn't fully
support the hard drive.

(1) What makes you think Linux doesn't support the hard drive?

(2) Well, you need Windows to flash the BIOS, don't you?

>> The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>> firmware.
>
> Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.

Yes, they can.  And I can complain when they do stupid things like
require Windows to flash the BIOS.  And so can the OP. 

-- 
Jesse F. Hughes
"Penguins are so sensitive to my needs."  --Lyle Lovett

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:54:55 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>Patricia <patty_DELfitzhenry@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>> Doesn't matter though, go to :
>>> www.bootdisk.com
>>>
>>> Download a bootable diskette and go from there.
>
>>Now *that* seems sensible advice (if it works for the OP).
>
> The OP wasn't interested in sensible advice, just a forum to vent.

When I find that I need Windows to complete a hardware- or
firmware-related task, I'll bitch too.  Ain't no damn reason for it.

-- 
Jesse F. Hughes
"Time and again, history has shown that people who think their beliefs
trump reality lose, and lose badly.  Luckily, I don't have to listen
to you."  -- James Harris on reality avoidance

Peter Jensen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> nikoli wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>It's a tad silly to complain about a company not fully supporting
>>>>Linux.
>>>
>>>Why is that silly?  They usually support Mac, and that's even more
>>>fringe than Linux these days.  Not that I care that much.  I just
>>>vote with my wallet and make sure they know it (I've been known to
>>>send receipts for Linux-friendly hardware to Linux-hostile hardware
>>>manufacturers, along with an explanation of why they lost a sale).
>>
>>Macs more fringe than Linux !?!?! That's a new one. Guess I shouldn't
>>be suprised by anything I read in these advocacy groups... but that
>>level of BS is a level I haven't seen yet.
> 
> 
> I figured you'd say that, but please (just for once) *think* about what
> I wrote, in the context I wrote it.  There is only one vendor of Macs,
> so we know how big a market they have.  It's just a few percent.  Even
> the most conservative estimates of Linux usage puts it in the same
> region.

Show some proof... and we're talking desktops here. Do not include Linux 
servers.


> 
> 
>>Anywho, it's very silly to complain about any company not fully
>>supporting Linux... you've just got to expect that.
> 
> 
> Why?  I'm the one with the money, they should listen to me or lose the
> sale.  More importantly, they should look into the future.  Linux usage
> is growing, no doubt about it.  However, if a company first gets a
> reputation for not supporting Linux, the reputation will stick with them
> for long after they do start supporting Linux.

I'm sure Samsung is gonna file for bankrupcy for this.

Actually their reputation, as pointed out earlier, is favorable for the 
Linux community. Some firmware update on some relatively insignificant 
product isn't gonna make or break the Samsung reputation.

> 
> 
>>And this is just a firmware update.
> 
> 
> *Just* a firmware update?!?  Are you totally clueless as to how
> important a firmware update can be?  If it wasn't for a firmware update,
> the new hard disk in my workstation wouldn't be visible to my BIOS,
> which makes it unbootable. Fortunately ASUS provides a Flash ROM and a
> DOS based utility to burn it.  This can easily be placed on any of the
> DOS boot disk images available on places like http://bootdisk.com.

Did you notice the OP never answered the question of what he expected to 
gain from this update? Did you notice that he acknowledged the fact that 
his drive was in perfect working order already?

I'm well aware of the importance of SOME firmware updates. Building 
computers will make you aware. This one update that we're talking about 
however, is not an important udate for the OP. He's just ranting and not 
listening to sound advice.

If the update is of high importance, than you shouldn't have a problem 
with loading up windows temporarily on a partition or 2ndary HD. It's 
not that big of a deal.

(Can you think of why that might be a big deal for the Mackers?)

> 
> 
>>How freakin lame of you to whine about a firmware update. Especially
>>when the drive already works within Linux! What exactly are you
>>expecting from this update anyway?
> 
> 
> Why are you asking my?  I'm not the one "whining".  I just wanted to
> explain why hardware manufacturers should be more supportive of Linux
> users.

I know, my bad for not looking at the sender before replying. Sorry 
about that.

What you're requesting isn't going to happen anytime soon though. It's 
completely unrealistic to expect.

> 
> 
>>>>What did you expect when you started using Linux? Did you expect
>>>>that every one of your componants would be fully supported?
>>>
>>>I expected that much, and I haven't been let down.  Of course I did
>>>originally put my computer together myself, as I'm sure to get a
>>>cheaper machine with better quality components that way.  However,
>>>that was before I even considered putting Linux on that machine (or
>>>any other for that matter).  I guess quality parts are generally
>>>better supported than some of the junk you get in ready-made
>>>computers these days.
>>
>>Welp, guess you should've built one with Linux in mind then.
> 
> 
> Why should I have done that?  I didn't build my machine for Linux, but
> just by choosing quality components, I found full support anyway.

That's a rarity. You should consider yourself lucky.

> 
> 
>>That's just the way it is... you've got to make sure it's gonna work
>>in Linux because Linux can't make sure for you... not yet anyway.
> 
> 
> Well, not with the attitude of hardware manufacturers today.  That's
> what I endeavor to change, if only in my own small way.

Someday, maybe.

Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

> nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>>
>>
>>>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:39:09 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Maybe it's just me, but ripping a hard drive out of one box and
>>>>>temporarily putting it in another is a pain in the ass.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How did the drive get installed in the first place?  Oh my
>>>>god,  what a pain in the ass!  I want hardware that installs itself!
>>>>Boycott the world!
>>>
>>>
>>>Installation is one thing.  Having to temporarily install an alternate
>>>hard drive just to update firmware is another.  It's a pain in the
>>>ass, no matter what you say, and it is not reasonable that one has to
>>>jump through hoops like this to flash his firmware.
>>
>>It's perfectly reasonable. If you're going to use hardware that isn't 
>>fully supported by your OS, then you've got to take extra steps to do 
>>some things. It's what you signed up for after all.
> 
> 
> This is just nonsense, no?
> 
> Aside from the firmware, *what* about Samsung's hard drives is not
> "fully supported" by the OS?

If I'm not mistaken, it's not HDs that we're talking about.

> 
> The fact that the firmware flash requires Windows has nothing to do
> with whether Linux supports the drive.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "fully supported by your OS"... maybe I 
should've said "fully supported by your distro". After all, your distro 
should make a working relationship with the OEMs to make sure you are 
supported. And visa versa too.

> 
> This response appears to be a cute catch-22.
> 
> (1) Samsung requires Windows to flash the BIOS.
> 
> (2) Well, you should expect problems when your OS doesn't fully
> support the hard drive.
> 
> (1) What makes you think Linux doesn't support the hard drive?
> 
> (2) Well, you need Windows to flash the BIOS, don't you?

(1) It's the OEMs fault because it can't possibly have anything to do 
with Linux.

(2) This is an ongoing issue with Linux until it builds credibility.

(3) Well then I'll just complain.

(4) Fine, but it's not going to do you any good.

(5) I don't care.

(6) Neither do the OEMs.


> 
> 
>>>The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>>>firmware.
>>
>>Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.
> 
> 
> Yes, they can.  And I can complain when they do stupid things like
> require Windows to flash the BIOS.  And so can the OP. 
> 

See #6

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:31:57 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:54:55 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>Patricia <patty_DELfitzhenry@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>>> Doesn't matter though, go to :
>>>> www.bootdisk.com
>>>>
>>>> Download a bootable diskette and go from there.
>>
>>>Now *that* seems sensible advice (if it works for the OP).
>>
>> The OP wasn't interested in sensible advice, just a forum to vent.

>When I find that I need Windows to complete a hardware- or
>firmware-related task, I'll bitch too.  Ain't no damn reason for it.

Perhaps they don't want to support every operating system on the planet.


Would you pay 20% for a drive that had a linux firmware tool?

nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:

> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>
>> nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It's perfectly reasonable. If you're going to use hardware that isn't 
>>>fully supported by your OS, then you've got to take extra steps to do 
>>>some things. It's what you signed up for after all.
>> 
>> 
>> This is just nonsense, no?
>> 
>> Aside from the firmware, *what* about Samsung's hard drives is not
>> "fully supported" by the OS?
>
> If I'm not mistaken, it's not HDs that we're talking about.

Well, one of us is mistaken, but I won't swear it's you.  I thought
recent posts were just about Samsung hard drives, but I could be
wrong.

>> The fact that the firmware flash requires Windows has nothing to do
>> with whether Linux supports the drive.
>
> Maybe I shouldn't have said "fully supported by your OS"... maybe I 
> should've said "fully supported by your distro". After all, your distro 
> should make a working relationship with the OEMs to make sure you are 
> supported. And visa versa too.
>
>> 
>> This response appears to be a cute catch-22.
>> 
>> (1) Samsung requires Windows to flash the BIOS.
>> 
>> (2) Well, you should expect problems when your OS doesn't fully
>> support the hard drive.
>> 
>> (1) What makes you think Linux doesn't support the hard drive?
>> 
>> (2) Well, you need Windows to flash the BIOS, don't you?
>
> (1) It's the OEMs fault because it can't possibly have anything to do 
> with Linux.
>
> (2) This is an ongoing issue with Linux until it builds credibility.
>
> (3) Well then I'll just complain.
>
> (4) Fine, but it's not going to do you any good.
>
> (5) I don't care.
>
> (6) Neither do the OEMs.

Your dialog is a bit harder to follow.  Why are there six characters?

Anyway, hardware support with Linux has diddly to do with credibility,
but something to do with market share.  I agree that OEMs don't
support Linux as much as they support MS.  I don't agree that
complaining about this fact in COLA is a bad thing.  It alerts others
that they might want to avoid a particular manufacturer who has chosen
to make things unnecessarily hard for Linux users. 

That's a good thing.

I have had a site about my laptop for some time now.  Its main focus
has been on problems with the display (a common issue).  Until
recently, I couldn't do much but urge folks to write into the laptop
manufacturer and complain about the broken VBIOS in our laptop (a
VBIOS which fails to accurately report its capabilities -- not
something I consider an OS support issue).  

Did it work?  Well, no and maybe.  Finally, someone has provided a fix
for the BIOS issue and it isn't the OEM that did it.  Will my OEM care
a touch more about compatibility in the future?  I don't know, but I
hope so.  At least they've heard from a few more folks than they would
have.

I also had (and have) a warning to those interested in this laptop: if
they intend to install Linux, they should know that the company's
policy is: if it works on Windows, it is well-configured.  This is a
complaint that is useful, I think.

>>>>The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>>>>firmware.
>>>
>>>Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, they can.  And I can complain when they do stupid things like
>> require Windows to flash the BIOS.  And so can the OP. 
>> 
>
> See #6

So perhaps we are too small a minority for them to want our dollars.
All the more reason to spread the word that others in our shoes ought
to consider where they spend their money.

-- 
"We want a single platform.  We're trying to get there using the
carrot, or blackmail, or rewards, or whatever you call it."
   -- Madison, WI, superintendent Rainwater grasps subtlety in the
              operating system wars.

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:31:57 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
>
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:54:55 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>>Patricia <patty_DELfitzhenry@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter though, go to :
>>>>> www.bootdisk.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Download a bootable diskette and go from there.
>>>
>>>>Now *that* seems sensible advice (if it works for the OP).
>>>
>>> The OP wasn't interested in sensible advice, just a forum to vent.
>
>>When I find that I need Windows to complete a hardware- or
>>firmware-related task, I'll bitch too.  Ain't no damn reason for it.
>
> Perhaps they don't want to support every operating system on the planet.
>
>
> Would you pay 20% for a drive that had a linux firmware tool?

Is there any reason to keep the firmware specs closed source?  If the
manufacturer wished, couldn't they provide sufficient information so
that third parties could create firmware upgrades?

I don't know the details about HD firmware flashing.  When you flash a
motherboard BIOS, you use a bootable floppy.  Why isn't that a
solution here?

Anyway, we're rather going in circles.  I don't think I care enough
about this topic to continue (but please do answer the above
questions).

Thanks.
-- 
"So, at this time, I'd like to assure you that I am not interested in
making sure mathematicians worldwide get fired.  I've rethought my
desire to go to Congress and try to get funding for mathematicians
cut."  -- James Harris is a reasonable man.  Whew! 

Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

> nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>>
>>
>>>nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's perfectly reasonable. If you're going to use hardware that isn't 
>>>>fully supported by your OS, then you've got to take extra steps to do 
>>>>some things. It's what you signed up for after all.
>>>
>>>
>>>This is just nonsense, no?
>>>
>>>Aside from the firmware, *what* about Samsung's hard drives is not
>>>"fully supported" by the OS?
>>
>>If I'm not mistaken, it's not HDs that we're talking about.
> 
> 
> Well, one of us is mistaken, but I won't swear it's you.  I thought
> recent posts were just about Samsung hard drives, but I could be
> wrong.
> 
> 
>>>The fact that the firmware flash requires Windows has nothing to do
>>>with whether Linux supports the drive.
>>
>>Maybe I shouldn't have said "fully supported by your OS"... maybe I 
>>should've said "fully supported by your distro". After all, your distro 
>>should make a working relationship with the OEMs to make sure you are 
>>supported. And visa versa too.
>>
>>
>>>This response appears to be a cute catch-22.
>>>
>>>(1) Samsung requires Windows to flash the BIOS.
>>>
>>>(2) Well, you should expect problems when your OS doesn't fully
>>>support the hard drive.
>>>
>>>(1) What makes you think Linux doesn't support the hard drive?
>>>
>>>(2) Well, you need Windows to flash the BIOS, don't you?
>>
>>(1) It's the OEMs fault because it can't possibly have anything to do 
>>with Linux.
>>
>>(2) This is an ongoing issue with Linux until it builds credibility.
>>
>>(3) Well then I'll just complain.
>>
>>(4) Fine, but it's not going to do you any good.
>>
>>(5) I don't care.
>>
>>(6) Neither do the OEMs.
> 
> 
> Your dialog is a bit harder to follow.  Why are there six characters?

Just 6 exchanges between two people.


> 
> Anyway, hardware support with Linux has diddly to do with credibility,
> but something to do with market share. 

market share = credibility

thought that much was obvious


> I don't agree that complaining about this fact in COLA is a bad thing.  It alerts others
> that they might want to avoid a particular manufacturer who has chosen
> to make things unnecessarily hard for Linux users.
> 
> That's a good thing.

Sure is, but in this case it is misplaced and unecessary.


> 
> 
>>>>>The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>>>>>firmware.
>>>>
>>>>Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, they can.  And I can complain when they do stupid things like
>>>require Windows to flash the BIOS.  And so can the OP. 
>>>
>>
>>See #6
> 
> 
> So perhaps we are too small a minority for them to want our dollars.

I'm sure they want your dollars. Problem is, (not necessarily in the 
case of CD drive firmware) that it costs them more money than what it's 
worth. In other words, you can't give them enough money to cover the 
costs to fully support Linux users.

Especially when it's easy enough to load up a copy of windows 
temporarily to update the firmware. If it's that big of a pain in the 
arse for a Linux user, then that's just too bad so sad. That's the OS 
they chose. It doesn't take a genius to figure out there's gonna be some 
issues like these.

nikoli wrote:
> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

>> The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>> firmware.
> 
> 
> Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.

They could at least allow the firmware to be flashed from a bootable dos 
floppy.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Donn Miller wrote:

> nikoli wrote:
> 
>> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
> 
> 
>>> The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>>> firmware.
>>
>>
>>
>> Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.
> 
> 
> They could at least allow the firmware to be flashed from a bootable dos 
> floppy.
> 
> 
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


I think Patricia already said this is possible.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 23:22:06 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:31:57 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:
>>
>>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:54:55 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>>>>Patricia <patty_DELfitzhenry@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't matter though, go to :
>>>>>> www.bootdisk.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Download a bootable diskette and go from there.
>>>>
>>>>>Now *that* seems sensible advice (if it works for the OP).
>>>>
>>>> The OP wasn't interested in sensible advice, just a forum to vent.
>>
>>>When I find that I need Windows to complete a hardware- or
>>>firmware-related task, I'll bitch too.  Ain't no damn reason for it.
>>
>> Perhaps they don't want to support every operating system on the planet.
>>
>>
>> Would you pay 20% for a drive that had a linux firmware tool?

>Is there any reason to keep the firmware specs closed source?  If the
>manufacturer wished, couldn't they provide sufficient information so
>that third parties could create firmware upgrades?

>I don't know the details about HD firmware flashing.  When you flash a
>motherboard BIOS, you use a bootable floppy.  Why isn't that a
>solution here?

When you write a bootstrap to flash a motherboard, you know what motherboard(s)
you're going to have to initialize.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:18:15 -0400, Donn Miller <dmmiller@cvzoom.net> wrote:
>nikoli wrote:
>> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:

>>> The OP is right.  Samsung should not require a Windows OS to flash
>>> firmware.
>> 
>> 
>> Says who? Samsung can do anything they want to do with their products.

>They could at least allow the firmware to be flashed from a bootable dos 
>floppy.

Does dos still support all motherboards?

In article
<slrncd96i2.nl8.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net> (Sat, 19
Jun 2004 14:55:46 -0500), TCS wrote:

> Perhaps they don't want to support every operating system on the planet.

No company needs to "support every operating system on the planet" just
for firmware updates.  For x86 systems, they can simply download a GPL'd
MS-DOS clone, and distribute a bootable firmware updater.  Then, they
don't even have to support every Microsoft Windows[noTM] on the planet.

> Would you pay 20% for a drive that had a linux firmware tool?

I definitely pay 0% for any hardware that requires Microsoft's Windows.

nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:

> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>
>> I don't agree that complaining about this fact in COLA is a bad
>> thing.  It alerts others that they might want to avoid a particular
>> manufacturer who has chosen to make things unnecessarily hard for
>> Linux users.
>> 
>> That's a good thing.
>
> Sure is, but in this case it is misplaced and unecessary.

How is it misplaced?

Samsung makes Linux users go through more pains to flash their BIOS
than Windows users.  As a Linux user, I might prefer to know this
before I make my purchase.  Now, maybe it doesn't matter to me (since
flashing firmware is relatively rare or perhaps I dual boot) or maybe
it does.  Maybe I take it as evidence that Samsung doesn't care about
Linux and there may be other issues.

>> 
>> So perhaps we are too small a minority for them to want our dollars.
>
> I'm sure they want your dollars. Problem is, (not necessarily in the 
> case of CD drive firmware) that it costs them more money than what it's 
> worth. In other words, you can't give them enough money to cover the 
> costs to fully support Linux users.
>
> Especially when it's easy enough to load up a copy of windows 
> temporarily to update the firmware. If it's that big of a pain in the 
> arse for a Linux user, then that's just too bad so sad. That's the OS 
> they chose. It doesn't take a genius to figure out there's gonna be some 
> issues like these.

But if there are issues with Samsung hardware, then it's good to
mention this so that others can make an informed decision.  I really
don't see what your point is.  Here's mine:

Devices that work poorly with Linux are, all other things being equal,
less desirable than devices that work well.

Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to mention when a device works
poorly with Linux, as others may prefer to avoid it.  

If the device has been a pain in the ass for you personally, it is
appropriate to bitch a bit, too.

I have no idea what you and TCS see wrong with this reasoning, but I
have run out of interest on this topic.  This is my last post on this
topic, but please feel free to reply and get your response in.


-- 
Jesse F. Hughes
"It's easy folks.  Just talk about my approach to your favorite
mathematician.  If they can't be interested in it, they've
demonstrated a lack of mathematical skill." -- James Harris

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Hash: SHA1

nikoli wrote:

>> I figured you'd say that, but please (just for once) *think* about
>> what I wrote, in the context I wrote it.  There is only one vendor of
>> Macs, so we know how big a market they have.  It's just a few
>> percent.  Even the most conservative estimates of Linux usage puts it
>> in the same region.
> 
> Show some proof... and we're talking desktops here. Do not include
> Linux servers.

Come on, even the Google stats (which are questionable at best) indicate
Linux relatively close to Mac.  Actually I suspect most of the "Other"
category could be Linux as well.  Many browsers default to not
identifying themselves.  Some versions of Opera (a very popular browser
on Linux) actually defaults to claiming it's IE on Windows.  And still,
despite these handicaps, Linux is close to Mac usage.

And why should I not consider at least some servers?  In case you didn't
notice, servers need hardware too!  In fact, one of my machines is a
server.  I use a removable USB drive for backup purposes and for massive
data transportation.  I bought USB hardware that follows the defined
standards and don't need special drivers (for Linux).

>> Why?  I'm the one with the money, they should listen to me or lose
>> the sale.  More importantly, they should look into the future.  Linux
>> usage is growing, no doubt about it.  However, if a company first
>> gets a reputation for not supporting Linux, the reputation will stick
>> with them for long after they do start supporting Linux.
> 
> I'm sure Samsung is gonna file for bankrupcy for this.

Ugh ... *Obviously* they aren't going to go bankrupt over this, but it's
bad business practice to ignore a market segment that's relatively
easily satisfied and will be grateful and loyal.

> Actually their reputation, as pointed out earlier, is favorable for
> the Linux community. Some firmware update on some relatively
> insignificant product isn't gonna make or break the Samsung
> reputation.

What's important to one person might not be important to another.  Just
*one* bad experience like that could be enough to color the persons
judgment later.  What product do you think he would recommend to others?

>> *Just* a firmware update?!?  Are you totally clueless as to how
>> important a firmware update can be?  If it wasn't for a firmware
>> update, the new hard disk in my workstation wouldn't be visible to my
>> BIOS, which makes it unbootable. Fortunately ASUS provides a Flash
>> ROM and a DOS based utility to burn it.  This can easily be placed on
>> any of the DOS boot disk images available on places like
>> http://bootdisk.com.
> 
> Did you notice the OP never answered the question of what he expected
> to gain from this update? Did you notice that he acknowledged the fact
> that his drive was in perfect working order already?

I'm not talking to the OP here.  I was commenting on your "Just a
firmware update" statement.

> I'm well aware of the importance of SOME firmware updates. Building
> computers will make you aware. This one update that we're talking
> about however, is not an important udate for the OP. He's just ranting
> and not listening to sound advice.
> 
> If the update is of high importance, than you shouldn't have a problem
> with loading up windows temporarily on a partition or 2ndary HD. It's
> not that big of a deal.

Except you'd have to either spend money on Windows or break the law in
order to do that.  I know I'm not willing to do either.

> (Can you think of why that might be a big deal for the Mackers?)

Mac users have vendor support in almost all cases.

> What you're requesting isn't going to happen anytime soon though. It's
> completely unrealistic to expect.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect full disclosure of hardware
interfaces and get firmware upgrades in plain ROM files.  Why do you
think it is?

>> I didn't build my machine for Linux, but just by choosing quality
>> components, I found full support anyway.
> 
> That's a rarity.

I'm *sure* you will now provide proof of that unsubstantiated *claim*.

> You should consider yourself lucky.

I consider my self to not be unlucky.  Important difference!  I don't
buy crap hardware (like winmodems), so that's most of the hardware
incompatibility gone.  The only remaining area where I would have to do
research is scanners.  It's not even a lot of research, I just have to
swing by the sane-project's homepage.

>>> That's just the way it is... you've got to make sure it's gonna work
>>> in Linux because Linux can't make sure for you... not yet anyway.
>> 
>> Well, not with the attitude of hardware manufacturers today.  That's
>> what I endeavor to change, if only in my own small way.
> 
> Someday, maybe.

And people with your attitude is the problem here.  Everyone expects the
problem to solve itself, but if enough people tell the manufacturers why
they're losing a sale, something will happen much sooner.

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-- 
PeKaJe

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
		-- A.H. Weiler

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:09:26 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:

>> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>>
>>> I don't agree that complaining about this fact in COLA is a bad
>>> thing.  It alerts others that they might want to avoid a particular
>>> manufacturer who has chosen to make things unnecessarily hard for
>>> Linux users.
>>> 
>>> That's a good thing.
>>
>> Sure is, but in this case it is misplaced and unecessary.

>How is it misplaced?

>Samsung makes Linux users go through more pains to flash their BIOS
>than Windows users.  As a Linux user, I might prefer to know this

Then don't flash your bios all the time.  I generally think once just after
purchase is enough.
Or don't use linux or os/2 or vms or anything but windows.
Or don't use samsung DVDrw drives.
Or just whine about it.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:54:37 +0100, billy nelson wrote:

> I needed to do a firmware update on my Samsung SM-352B CDRW/DVD. They only
> had a download for Windows 9x/W2K/XP, of course, but I figured it was a
> win32 self-extractor for making a bootable floppy. But no - the firmware
> update had to be done from within Windows, which meant I either had to
> install Windows or not do the update.
> 
> Samsung sucks Gates's cock. Boycott Samsung!

Before you boycott Samsung, consider that they make the ONLY low cost
laser printer which actually mentions Linux compatibility on the box!!
And it works.

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> writes:

> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:09:26 +0200, Jesse F. Hughes <jesse@phiwumbda.org> wrote:
>>nikoli <spam@spamsux.com> writes:
>
>>> Jesse F. Hughes wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't agree that complaining about this fact in COLA is a bad
>>>> thing.  It alerts others that they might want to avoid a particular
>>>> manufacturer who has chosen to make things unnecessarily hard for
>>>> Linux users.
>>>> 
>>>> That's a good thing.
>>>
>>> Sure is, but in this case it is misplaced and unecessary.
>
>>How is it misplaced?
>
>>Samsung makes Linux users go through more pains to flash their BIOS
>>than Windows users.  As a Linux user, I might prefer to know this
>
> Then don't flash your bios all the time.  I generally think once just after
> purchase is enough.
> Or don't use linux or os/2 or vms or anything but windows.
> Or don't use samsung DVDrw drives.
> Or just whine about it.
>

Jesus.  You're simply tedious.

-- 
Conservative, n:
	A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished
	from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others.
		-- Ambrose Bierce