Hi Guys,

I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
fresh installations of win-xp needed.

Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
question.. What to buy...

Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
system...

  - Running software like
  - Oracle 10g Server,
    - Oracle Warehouse Builder
    - Some ETL tools...
    - some shell programming
  - some perl programming
  - lots of internet browsing
  - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
server running when I am watching DVDs...)
  - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...

A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
unix usage pretty heavily..
I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
well).

Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.

In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
"unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
from windows.

In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)

Help please...

regards
raghav..

On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> question.. What to buy...
>
> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> system...
>
>   - Running software like
>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>     - Some ETL tools...
>     - some shell programming
>   - some perl programming
>   - lots of internet browsing
>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>
> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
> unix usage pretty heavily..
> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
> well).
>
> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>
> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
> from windows.
>
> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>
> Help please...
>
> regards
> raghav..

And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
pocket.. :)

raghav..

On Jun 17, 11:53 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Guys,
>
> > I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> > HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> > fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
> > Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> > I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> > question.. What to buy...
>
> > Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> > system...
>
> >   - Running software like
> >   - Oracle 10g Server,
> >     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
> >     - Some ETL tools...
> >     - some shell programming
> >   - some perl programming
> >   - lots of internet browsing
> >   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> > server running when I am watching DVDs...)
> >   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> > like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>
> > A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
> > I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
> > unix usage pretty heavily..
> > I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
> > my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
> > well).
>
> > Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
> > and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
> > from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>
> > In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
> > "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
> > which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
> > reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
> > else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
> > from windows.
>
> > In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
> > apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
> > if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>
> > Help please...
>
> > regards
> > raghav..
>
> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
> pocket.. :)
>
> raghav..

And, so that I am not called any bad names, people in
comp.sys.mac.advocacy have already helped me see a better picture of
mac systems and its good and bads.
I am grateful for that. However, the ultimate question is yet to be
answered (at least in my mind).  And thats why this post(s) :)

regards
raghav..

Raghav wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
> 
> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> question.. What to buy...
> 
> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> system...
> 
>   - Running software like
>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>     - Some ETL tools...
>     - some shell programming
>   - some perl programming
>   - lots of internet browsing
>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...


You whole approach of getting a single PC doing a whole lot of incompatible
operations beyond normal home use is flawed.

Servers, Linux things, media pc things, internet things can all be set
up and run from one PC, but it will grind to a halt, and may have
security issues.

Think instead of cheap $300 boxes that do server functions, $300 PC that
does internet things using Linux (http://www.livecdlist.com or
http://www.distrowatch.com for distros) and a decent PC that does your
desktop things - all networked together.

On Jun 17, 1:44 pm, 7 <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
> Raghav wrote:
> > Hi Guys,
>
> > I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> > HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> > fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
> > Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> > I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> > question.. What to buy...
>
> > Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> > system...
>
> >   - Running software like
> >   - Oracle 10g Server,
> >     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
> >     - Some ETL tools...
> >     - some shell programming
> >   - some perl programming
> >   - lots of internet browsing
> >   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> > server running when I am watching DVDs...)
> >   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> > like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>
> You whole approach of getting a single PC doing a whole lot of incompatible
> operations beyond normal home use is flawed.
>
> Servers, Linux things, media pc things, internet things can all be set
> up and run from one PC, but it will grind to a halt, and may have
> security issues.
>
> Think instead of cheap $300 boxes that do server functions, $300 PC that
> does internet things using Linux (http://www.livecdlist.comorhttp://www.distrowatch.comfor distros) and a decent PC that does your
> desktop things - all networked together.

You mentioned something I fear myself... But being a consultant, I
need to be able to do some from all these functions.
Its a need based thing. When I need to do something, I run tools for
that.  I just mentioned things that I expect to be doing on the new
system.

You are right that the "ideal" approach would be to have separate
system doing diff specialized things.
However, I dont want to build a lab here at home, would cost me money
as well as movement blues (remember I want to keep it simpler on a
laptop, since I move a lot).

hope you see my point of view.

regards
raghav..

"Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1182073605.301547.311480@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> question.. What to buy...
>
> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> system...
>
>  - Running software like
>  - Oracle 10g Server,

Oracle is only supported on OS X Server and not the version that ships on 
consumer Macintoshes. You'll need to obtain a copy of OS X Server in order 
to use Oracle.

... snip ... 

On Jun 17, 7:01 pm, "PC Guy" <p...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Raghav" <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1182073605.301547.311480@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hi Guys,
>
> > I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> > HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> > fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
> > Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> > I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> > question.. What to buy...
>
> > Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> > system...
>
> >  - Running software like
> >  - Oracle 10g Server,
>
> Oracle is only supported on OS X Server and not the version that ships on
> consumer Macintoshes. You'll need to obtain a copy of OS X Server in order
> to use Oracle.
>
> .. snip ...

Wont that mean a comparative positive thing to go for Linux... ??

Actually, that should be 'among'. 'Between' is used when making a choice
between two alternatives - 'among' is used when making a choice from among
three or more.

7 wrote:
> Raghav wrote:
> 
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>
>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>> question.. What to buy...
>>
>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>> system...
>>
>>   - Running software like
>>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>     - Some ETL tools...
>>     - some shell programming
>>   - some perl programming
>>   - lots of internet browsing
>>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
> 
> 
> You whole approach of getting a single PC doing a whole lot of incompatible
> operations beyond normal home use is flawed.
> 
> Servers, Linux things, media pc things, internet things can all be set
> up and run from one PC, but it will grind to a halt, and may have
> security issues.
> 
> Think instead of cheap $300 boxes that do server functions, $300 PC that
> does internet things using Linux (http://www.livecdlist.com or
> http://www.distrowatch.com for distros) and a decent PC that does your
> desktop things - all networked together.
> 
The cheap boxes can cost as little as $59, for Dells, refurbished, like
at http://cheaptronicsdepot.com  (a mile from here, and a solution for
some folks)...

I love GNU/Linux for as much as I can use it.  Then, a mixed network of
Linux and BSD boxes, managed from one system, would be perhaps, four
boxes, with one being the master, with monitor.  SSH into the others to
contrl and run them remotely.

Thrift stores are selling boxes cheap.  Salvage school systems are cheap.

Yes, you mention that you move around.  Well, we're talking about adding
 four small computer towers or desktops, stacked in the corner, with out
monitors, or even any input devices..  I highly recommend an IPCOP box
to protect your data and stuff from the web.

Raghav wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
> 
> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> question.. What to buy...
> 
> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> system...
> 
>   - Running software like
>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>     - Some ETL tools...
>     - some shell programming
>   - some perl programming
>   - lots of internet browsing
>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
> 
> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
> unix usage pretty heavily..
> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
> well).
> 
> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
> 
> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
> from windows.
> 
> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
> 
> Help please...
> 
> regards
> raghav..
> 

Raghav wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
> 
> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> question.. What to buy...
> 
> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> system...
> 
>   - Running software like
>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>     - Some ETL tools...
>     - some shell programming
>   - some perl programming
>   - lots of internet browsing
>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
> 
> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
> unix usage pretty heavily..
> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
> well).
> 
> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.

You're better off not adding a third platform to the mix. Run Linux and 
Windows. I, personally, just recently decided that maintaining Macs in a 
Windows/Linux environment was too much additional trouble for any 
marginal benefits I'd get from them. I'm now down to one OS X box.

Hi Guys,

I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
fresh installations of win-xp needed.

Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
question.. What to buy...

Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
system...

  - Running software like
  - Oracle 10g Server,
    - Oracle Warehouse Builder
    - Some ETL tools...
    - some shell programming
  - some perl programming
  - lots of internet browsing
  - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
server running when I am watching DVDs...)
  - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...

A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
unix usage pretty heavily..
I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
well).

Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.

In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
"unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
from windows.

In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)

And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
pocket.. :)

And, so that I am not called any bad names, people in
comp.sys.mac.advocacy have already helped me see a better picture of
mac systems and its good and bads.
I am grateful for that. However, the ultimate question is yet to be
answered (at least in my mind).  And thats why this post(s) :)

Help please...

regards
raghav..
(Just Reentering the same question)

On Jun 18, 9:52 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.

I got my Mac laptop a few months ago.  I was a windows/linux laptop
user before that and my work is 100% linux at this point ( except
outlook for administrative stuff ).

The mac was a great fit and it's a nice piece of hardware.  I was able
to take to it immediately and start doing work.  I can take the best
of the OSS world ( Firefox, OO.o, Adium(gaim), ssh, fuse, ... ) and
run it under a slick, supported, platform.  When I need to delve
deeper into the UNIX world I can use VMware or Parallels to run a
fully virtualized Ubuntu, Fedora, or whatever if the flavor of the
week.  I could even run a copy of XP if I wanted to which is
comforting even if I never use it.

-Eric
http://brontide.blogspot.com/

"Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1182073605.301547.311480@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
> question.. What to buy...
>
> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
> system...
>
>  - Running software like
>  - Oracle 10g Server,
>    - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>    - Some ETL tools...
>    - some shell programming
>  - some perl programming
>  - lots of internet browsing
>  - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>  - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>
> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
> unix usage pretty heavily..
> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
> well).
>
> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>
> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
> from windows.
>
> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>
> Help please...


      You should definitely stay away from the Mac laptop. You'll get a lot 
more bang for your buck if you get a laptops form Dell, Toshiba or HP. They 
all run on the same processors, even the Mac. So you have a very wide choice 
of Linux distributions. Also Linux is very compatible with Windows and it 
can do anything that Windows can.

     Then as you gain more experience, and want less hassle. You can learn 
to protect your Windows system and that will pretty much eliminate the need 
to reinstall. I've had the same installation of Windows XP for over four 
years and I've never had to reinstall.

John

"Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>
>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>> question.. What to buy...
>>
>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>> system...
>>
>>   - Running software like
>>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>     - Some ETL tools...
>>     - some shell programming
>>   - some perl programming
>>   - lots of internet browsing
>>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>
>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>> well).
>>
>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>
>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>> from windows.
>>
>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>
>> Help please...
>>
>> regards
>> raghav..
>
> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
> pocket.. :)

     If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there are 
major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the time. 
The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.

John

John Slade wrote:

> 
> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>
>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>> question.. What to buy...
>>>
>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>> system...
>>>
>>>   - Running software like
>>>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>     - Some ETL tools...
>>>     - some shell programming
>>>   - some perl programming
>>>   - lots of internet browsing
>>>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>
>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>> well).
>>>
>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>
>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>> from windows.
>>>
>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
< snip >

>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>> pocket.. :)
> 
>      If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I
> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no
> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. 

This is blatantly wrong.
Please show us the "investments" one has to make for linux security

> Though the  virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X 

The virus threat for OSX is *very* *low*
The virus threat for linux is currently *zero*

> and Windows, 

The virus threat for windows is *extremely* *high*

> there are major security holes in Linux distributions that get 
> patched all the time. 

There are? Do you refer to the base OS here or do you include the 20000 apps
available for linux? Of which most are not even installed on any given
computer

> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than 
> the latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
> 

Certainly. Well, in your universe the sky is pink
-- 
Security is one of those funny things.  You can talk about being "more"
secure, but there's no such thing.  A vulnerability is a vulnerability, and
even one makes you just as insecure as anyone else.  Security is a binary
condition, either you are or you aren't. - Funkenbusch 1 Oct 2006

"John Slade" <hhitman86@pacbell.net> stated in post
xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net on 6/18/07 9:53 AM:

>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for the
>> virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and pocket.. :)
>> 
> If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I recommend
> an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no matter what OS
> you have, you will have to invest in security.

You should take precautions, but, frankly, Windows is the *only* OS where it
is a big concern.

> Though the virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows,

The risk on Windows is significant and real... on Linux and OS X the risks
are negligible - though, again, a wise person still takes precautions.

> there are major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the
> time. The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the
> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.

Ah, please link to those Trojans.  Good luck!


-- 
��A partial subset is not synonymous with the whole
� A person's actions speak more about him than what others say
� Apple doesn't provide as many options as the rest of the PC industry

"John Slade" <hhitman86@pacbell.net> stated in post
MGydi.1997$vi5.422@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net on 6/18/07 9:47 AM:

> You should definitely stay away from the Mac laptop. You'll get a lot more
> bang for your buck if you get a laptops form Dell, Toshiba or HP. They all run
> on the same processors, even the Mac. So you have a very wide choice of Linux
> distributions. Also Linux is very compatible with Windows and it can do
> anything that Windows can.

A computer is made up of more than just its CPU... your analysis which
starts and ends there is absurd.  As far a Linux, well, you cannot do
everything on Linux you can on Windows or Mac... at least not with the same
ease of use.

> Then as you gain more experience, and want less hassle. You can learn to
> protect your Windows system and that will pretty much eliminate the need to
> reinstall. I've had the same installation of Windows XP for over four years
> and I've never had to reinstall.

Wow... such bragging rights.  LOL!


-- 
� Nuclear arms are arms
��OS X's Command+Scroll wheel function does not exist in default XP
��Technical competence and intelligence are not the same thing

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:53:52 -0700, John Slade wrote
(in article <xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):

> 
> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>> 
>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>> 
>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>> question.. What to buy...
>>> 
>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>> system...
>>> 
>>> - Running software like
>>> - Oracle 10g Server,
>>> - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>> - Some ETL tools...
>>> - some shell programming
>>> - some perl programming
>>> - lots of internet browsing
>>> - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>> - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>> 
>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>> well).
>>> 
>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>> 
>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>> from windows.
>>> 
>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>>> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>> 
>>> Help please...
>>> 
>>> regards
>>> raghav..
>> 
>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>> pocket.. :)
> 
>      If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
> virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there are 
> major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the time. 
> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
> 
> John
> 
> 

Where are they, John? Not in the wild. That's where they are,

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:47:42 -0700, John Slade wrote
(in article <MGydi.1997$vi5.422@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):

> 
> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:1182073605.301547.311480@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi Guys,
>> 
>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>> 
>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>> question.. What to buy...
>> 
>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>> system...
>> 
>> - Running software like
>> - Oracle 10g Server,
>> - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>> - Some ETL tools...
>> - some shell programming
>> - some perl programming
>> - lots of internet browsing
>> - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>> - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>> 
>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>> well).
>> 
>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>> 
>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>> from windows.
>> 
>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>> 
>> Help please...
> 
> 
>       You should definitely stay away from the Mac laptop. You'll get a lot 
> more bang for your buck if you get a laptops form Dell, Toshiba or HP. They 
> all run on the same processors, even the Mac. So you have a very wide choice 
> of Linux distributions. Also Linux is very compatible with Windows and it 
> can do anything that Windows can.
> 
>      Then as you gain more experience, and want less hassle. You can learn 
> to protect your Windows system and that will pretty much eliminate the need 
> to reinstall. I've had the same installation of Windows XP for over four 
> years and I've never had to reinstall.
> 
> John
> 
> 

Caveat Emptor:

John builds "beige box" generic PCs for a living. He is heavily vested in 
Windows and PCs and HATES Macs with a passion (although as far as anyone can 
tell, he's never really used one). Advice from him is usually toxic. OTOH, 
this is one time when I'm forced to agree with him. If you don't plan to run 
OSX, there is little reason to buy a Mac. For although they use many of the 
same components and are "processor compatible" Macs tend to have different 
physical features from PCs (such as a different mix of I/O ports). Also, 
laptops decent enough to run Linux more than adequately tend to be much 
cheaper than an entry-level Macbook (of course, one gets OSX  and iLife with 
the Macbook and that's a $200 difference right-off-the-bat, but if you aren't 
going to use them....),

In article <0001HW.C29C245800F9C286F0182648@news.comcast.net>, George
Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:

> > If you want a computer, no 
> > matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
John is totally wrong here. COMPLETELY wrong; unforgiveably WRONG!

> > The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
> > latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
Again, completely wrong.
The latest version of Windows (Vista) has plenty of holes and things to
patch, but patch quantity is no guide to the real threat.
And since there are basically zero trojans for Mac OS, how he figures
there are more than for Windows (with thousands) is beyond rationale.


[yet again, cut out COLA cross-posting]

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 02:46:45 -0700, Raghav
<sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi Guys,
>
>I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>
>Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>question.. What to buy...
>
>Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>system...
>
>  - Running software like
>  - Oracle 10g Server,

Oracle Server does not run on the client version of OS X. You will
need to obtain OS X Server in order to use it.

.... snip ...

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:51:30 -1000, Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote:

>In article <0001HW.C29C245800F9C286F0182648@news.comcast.net>, George
>Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> > If you want a computer, no 
>> > matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
>John is totally wrong here. COMPLETELY wrong; unforgiveably WRONG!

John is 100% RIGHT. COMPLETELY right. You, OTOH, are a Mactard and
it's understood that you are WRONG. Unforgiveably WRONG!

>
>> > The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
>> > latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>Again, completely wrong.
>The latest version of Windows (Vista) has plenty of holes and things to
>patch, but patch quantity is no guide to the real threat.

It's had a few vulnerabilities but to date not a single exploit. And
since this is the metric used by the Mactards we'll have to conclude
that Vista is a safe OS.

>And since there are basically zero trojans for Mac OS, how he figures
>there are more than for Windows (with thousands) is beyond rationale.
>
>
>[yet again, cut out COLA cross-posting]

Raghav wrote:

> On Jun 17, 1:44 pm, 7 <website_has_em...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
>> Raghav wrote:
>> > Hi Guys,
>>
>> > I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>> > HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>> > fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>
>> > Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>> > I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>> > question.. What to buy...
>>
>> > Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>> > system...
>>
>> >   - Running software like
>> >   - Oracle 10g Server,
>> >     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>> >     - Some ETL tools...
>> >     - some shell programming
>> >   - some perl programming
>> >   - lots of internet browsing
>> >   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>> > server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>> >   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>> > like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>
>> You whole approach of getting a single PC doing a whole lot of
>> incompatible operations beyond normal home use is flawed.
>>
>> Servers, Linux things, media pc things, internet things can all be set
>> up and run from one PC, but it will grind to a halt, and may have
>> security issues.
>>
>> Think instead of cheap $300 boxes that do server functions, $300 PC that
>> does internet things using Linux
>> (http://www.livecdlist.comorhttp://www.distrowatch.comfor distros) and a
>> decent PC that does your desktop things - all networked together.
> 
> You mentioned something I fear myself... But being a consultant, I
> need to be able to do some from all these functions.
> Its a need based thing. When I need to do something, I run tools for
> that.  I just mentioned things that I expect to be doing on the new
> system.
> 
> You are right that the "ideal" approach would be to have separate
> system doing diff specialized things.
> However, I dont want to build a lab here at home, would cost me money
> as well as movement blues (remember I want to keep it simpler on a
> laptop, since I move a lot).
> 
> hope you see my point of view.

Unfortunately, I don't; particularly what is to happen when
your laptop gets infected, broken or stolen.
Its going to take your work and your client's data with it.

Your laptop can have wifi network cards, and you set up
a wifi connection at home for about $30.

John Slade wrote:
> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> 
>>On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Guys,
>>>
>>>I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>
>>>Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>>I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>question.. What to buy...
>>>
>>>Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>>system...
>>>
>>>  - Running software like
>>>  - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>    - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>    - Some ETL tools...
>>>    - some shell programming
>>>  - some perl programming
>>>  - lots of internet browsing
>>>  - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>  - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>
>>>A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>>my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>well).
>>>
>>>Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>
>>>In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>"unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>from windows.
>>>
>>>In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>>apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>>>if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>>
>>>Help please...
>>>
>>>regards
>>>raghav..
>>
>>And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>pocket.. :)
> 
> 
>      If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
> virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there are 
> major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the time. 
> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
> 

How many times do I have to spank your stupid ass about security?... 
something you know nothing about.

George Graves wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:53:52 -0700, John Slade wrote
> (in article <xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):
> 
> 
>>"Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>>I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>>HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>>fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>
>>>>Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>>>I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>>question.. What to buy...
>>>>
>>>>Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>>>system...
>>>>
>>>>- Running software like
>>>>- Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>- Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>- Some ETL tools...
>>>>- some shell programming
>>>>- some perl programming
>>>>- lots of internet browsing
>>>>- some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>>server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>- Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>>like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>
>>>>A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>>I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>>unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>>I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>>>my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>>well).
>>>>
>>>>Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>>and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>>from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>
>>>>In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>>"unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>>which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>>reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>>else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>>from windows.
>>>>
>>>>In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>>>apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>>>>if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>>>
>>>>Help please...
>>>>
>>>>regards
>>>>raghav..
>>>
>>>And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>>the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>>pocket.. :)
>>
>>     If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
>>recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
>>matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
>>virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there are 
>>major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the time. 
>>The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
>>latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Where are they, John? Not in the wild. That's where they are,
> 
> 

The only trojans John knows about are the ones he buys in the drugstore.

Anyhoo... it looks like Hiliary is slated to be our next president, 
since she attended another Bilderberg meeting.

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:50:00 -0700, Maverick wrote
(in article <bKWdnUltn8kV_erbnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@bresnan.com>):

> George Graves wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:53:52 -0700, John Slade wrote
>> (in article <xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):
>> 
>> 
>>> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>>>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>>> question.. What to buy...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>>>> system...
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Running software like
>>>>> - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>> - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>> - Some ETL tools...
>>>>> - some shell programming
>>>>> - some perl programming
>>>>> - lots of internet browsing
>>>>> - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>> - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>> 
>>>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>>>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>>> well).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>>> from windows.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>>>> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>>>>> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Help please...
>>>>> 
>>>>> regards
>>>>> raghav..
>>>> 
>>>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>>> pocket.. :)
>>> 
>>> If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
>>> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
>>> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
>>> virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there 
>>> are 
>>> major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the time. 
>>> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
>>> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Where are they, John? Not in the wild. That's where they are,
>> 
>> 
> 
> The only trojans John knows about are the ones he buys in the drugstore.

And he uses them when whacks-off.

> Anyhoo... it looks like Hiliary is slated to be our next president, 
> since she attended another Bilderberg meeting.

God help us, then. But if the Bilderbergers have embraced her, she's who the 
next president will be. That's how it works.

Oldtech wrote:


> The 


Nice nym shift d00d.




Gonna answer the questions posed or will you slink away once more ?
Message-ID:   <2194089.juGgbjM2Mr@bl9wM3>












-- 
"I predict Windows XP will be as big a damp squid
as Office XP. The X-box will be a disappointment also. By early 2002
it will be clear to all that the MS bubble has burst and their share
price will go into freefall." - Roy Culley, July 2001

George Graves wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:50:00 -0700, Maverick wrote
> (in article <bKWdnUltn8kV_erbnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@bresnan.com>):
> 
> 
>>George Graves wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:53:52 -0700, John Slade wrote
>>>(in article <xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>>>news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>>>>HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>>>>fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>>>>>I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>>>>question.. What to buy...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>>>>>system...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Running software like
>>>>>>- Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>>>- Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>>>- Some ETL tools...
>>>>>>- some shell programming
>>>>>>- some perl programming
>>>>>>- lots of internet browsing
>>>>>>- some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>>>>server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>>>- Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>>>>like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>>>>I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>>>>unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>>>>I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>>>>>my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>>>>well).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>>>>and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>>>>from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>>>>"unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>>>>which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>>>>reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>>>>else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>>>>from windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>>>>>apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>>>>>>if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Help please...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>regards
>>>>>>raghav..
>>>>>
>>>>>And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>>>>the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>>>>pocket.. :)
>>>>
>>>>If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
>>>>recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
>>>>matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
>>>>virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there 
>>>>are 
>>>>major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the time. 
>>>>The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
>>>>latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Where are they, John? Not in the wild. That's where they are,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The only trojans John knows about are the ones he buys in the drugstore.
> 
> 
> And he uses them when whacks-off.
> 
> 
>>Anyhoo... it looks like Hiliary is slated to be our next president, 
>>since she attended another Bilderberg meeting.
> 
> 
> God help us, then. But if the Bilderbergers have embraced her, she's who the 
> next president will be. That's how it works.
> 

It appears to be so.  Between now and then we should see some rather 
peculiar shenanigans going on.  But actually, it doesn't matter any 
more.  Right now, the UK has canned the Magna Carta and England is now 
pretty much a pure police state.  Cameras on every corner with 
loudspeakers if they see you littering, and then tell you to pick it 
up... DNA database, the police can now ask you where you've been and 
where you will be going, etc.

Ron Paul is the populist favorite, yet the polls give  him a poor 
showing.  Anyway, whether we get a democrat or a republican, they all 
answer to the same puppet master.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:56:33 -0700, Maverick wrote
(in article <vYSdnYvQfJ5ZYerbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@bresnan.com>):

> George Graves wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:50:00 -0700, Maverick wrote
>> (in article <bKWdnUltn8kV_erbnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@bresnan.com>):
>> 
>> 
>>> George Graves wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:53:52 -0700, John Slade wrote
>>>> (in article <xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>>>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>>>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>>>>>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>>>>> question.. What to buy...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>>>>>> system...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Running software like
>>>>>>> - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>>>> - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>>>> - Some ETL tools...
>>>>>>> - some shell programming
>>>>>>> - some perl programming
>>>>>>> - lots of internet browsing
>>>>>>> - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>>>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>>>> - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>>>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>>>>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>>>>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>>>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>>>>>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>>>>> well).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>>>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>>>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>>>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>>>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>>>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>>>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>>>>> from windows.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>>>>>> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... but
>>>>>>> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Help please...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>> raghav..
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>>>>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>>>>> pocket.. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I 
>>>>> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no 
>>>>> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though the 
>>>>> virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, there 
>>>>> are 
>>>>> major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the 
>>>>> time. 
>>>>> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the 
>>>>> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> John
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Where are they, John? Not in the wild. That's where they are,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> The only trojans John knows about are the ones he buys in the drugstore.
>> 
>> 
>> And he uses them when whacks-off.
>> 
>> 
>>> Anyhoo... it looks like Hiliary is slated to be our next president, 
>>> since she attended another Bilderberg meeting.
>> 
>> 
>> God help us, then. But if the Bilderbergers have embraced her, she's who 
>> the 
>> next president will be. That's how it works.
>> 
> 
> It appears to be so.  Between now and then we should see some rather 
> peculiar shenanigans going on.  But actually, it doesn't matter any 
> more.  Right now, the UK has canned the Magna Carta and England is now 
> pretty much a pure police state.  Cameras on every corner with 
> loudspeakers if they see you littering, and then tell you to pick it 
> up... DNA database, the police can now ask you where you've been and 
> where you will be going, etc.
> 
> Ron Paul is the populist favorite, yet the polls give  him a poor 
> showing.  Anyway, whether we get a democrat or a republican, they all 
> answer to the same puppet master.

You would be surprised at how many people still think that (A) our votes 
actually count, and (B) that our "representatives" actually represent us. The 
US isn't as bad as England - yet, but it will be. All of our rights as 
guaranteed by various Constitutions, Charters et al, will be viewed as 
obsolete curiosities or worse, they will be decried as evil documents and the 
citizenry won't even know what they said. We are headed for a dark ages of 
totalitarianism, I'm afraid. It won't happen over night, but it will, 
nonetheless happen. The grandchildren of this current generation won't know 
the meaning of the words Liberty or Freedom - even in Spanish, by then the 
dominant language/culture in the Estados Unidos. 

"George Graves" <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:0001HW.C29D552101413299F0182648@news.comcast.net...
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:56:33 -0700, Maverick wrote
> (in article <vYSdnYvQfJ5ZYerbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@bresnan.com>):
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:50:00 -0700, Maverick wrote
>>> (in article <bKWdnUltn8kV_erbnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@bresnan.com>):
>>>
>>>
>>>> George Graves wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:53:52 -0700, John Slade wrote
>>>>> (in article <xMydi.1999$vi5.1806@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 
>>>>>>>> 40GB
>>>>>>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>>>>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop 
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>>>>>> question.. What to buy...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> system...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Running software like
>>>>>>>> - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>>>>> - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>>>>> - Some ETL tools...
>>>>>>>> - some shell programming
>>>>>>>> - some perl programming
>>>>>>>> - lots of internet browsing
>>>>>>>> - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>>>>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>>>>> - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>>>>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>>>>>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>>>>>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>>>>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>>>>>> well).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at 
>>>>>>>> home)
>>>>>>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need 
>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>>>>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>>>>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>>>>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as 
>>>>>>>> anybody
>>>>>>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>>>>>> from windows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>>>>>>>> apple or a hp or ibm.. would be derived from the choice of os... 
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> if you think otherwise, please be vocal. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Help please...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>> raghav..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>>>>>> pocket.. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I
>>>>>> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, 
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security. Though 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X and Windows, 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> major security holes in Linux distributions that get patched all the
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Where are they, John? Not in the wild. That's where they are,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The only trojans John knows about are the ones he buys in the 
>>>> drugstore.
>>>
>>>
>>> And he uses them when whacks-off.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Anyhoo... it looks like Hiliary is slated to be our next president,
>>>> since she attended another Bilderberg meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>> God help us, then. But if the Bilderbergers have embraced her, she's who
>>> the
>>> next president will be. That's how it works.
>>>
>>
>> It appears to be so.  Between now and then we should see some rather
>> peculiar shenanigans going on.  But actually, it doesn't matter any
>> more.  Right now, the UK has canned the Magna Carta and England is now
>> pretty much a pure police state.  Cameras on every corner with
>> loudspeakers if they see you littering, and then tell you to pick it
>> up... DNA database, the police can now ask you where you've been and
>> where you will be going, etc.
>>
>> Ron Paul is the populist favorite, yet the polls give  him a poor
>> showing.  Anyway, whether we get a democrat or a republican, they all
>> answer to the same puppet master.
>
> You would be surprised at how many people still think that (A) our votes
> actually count, and (B) that our "representatives" actually represent us. 
> The
> US isn't as bad as England - yet, but it will be. All of our rights as
> guaranteed by various Constitutions, Charters et al, will be viewed as
> obsolete curiosities or worse, they will be decried as evil documents and 
> the
> citizenry won't even know what they said. We are headed for a dark ages of
> totalitarianism, I'm afraid. It won't happen over night, but it will,
> nonetheless happen. The grandchildren of this current generation won't 
> know
> the meaning of the words Liberty or Freedom - even in Spanish, by then the
> dominant language/culture in the Estados Unidos.
>
>

Sad but true and every vote for a Democrat or a Republican is another nail 
in the coffin.  We need a "storm the bastille" revolution but the TV 
generation has no courage, honor, or fight in them.  First the government 
will take away all the guns, then they will chip us all and then they will 
take complete control of our lives. 

"Peter K�hlmann" <peter.koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message 
news:f56ei3$svd$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> John Slade wrote:
>
>>
>> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop since
>>>> I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit the
>>>> question.. What to buy...
>>>>
>>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of the
>>>> system...
>>>>
>>>>   - Running software like
>>>>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>     - Some ETL tools...
>>>>     - some shell programming
>>>>   - some perl programming
>>>>   - lots of internet browsing
>>>>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure.. use..
>>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>
>>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me.
>>>> I have been doing some shell programming for quite some time now...
>>>> unix usage pretty heavily..
>>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions of
>>>> my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>> well).
>>>>
>>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>
>>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>> from windows.
>>>>
>>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
> < snip >
>
>>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and
>>> pocket.. :)
>>
>>      If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then I
>> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer, no
>> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
>
> This is blatantly wrong.

       This statement proves you to be clueless about computer security.

> Please show us the "investments" one has to make for linux security

      Most Linux distros are pretty secure but they are still subject to 
being hacked. Anyone who thinks there is no way to gain unauthorized access 
to a Linux system is living in a dream world.

>
>> Though the  virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X
>
> The virus threat for OSX is *very* *low*
> The virus threat for linux is currently *zero*

       This is patently false. Now when I say virus I include wroms and 
trojans in that. "Virus" can be used as a generic term. Also remember, if a 
virus copies itself at least once, it considered technically a virus. That 
being said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses

      Now exactly where did you get the information that there are no Linux 
viruses? Are you one of those people like me who just experiment with Linux 
and not use it as an every day thing? Most of those viruses are pretty old 
in computer terms but hey some people still use older versions of Linux and 
the Linux apps.

>
>> and Windows,
>
> The virus threat for windows is *extremely* *high*

     How many Vista viruses are there?

>
>> there are major security holes in Linux distributions that get
>> patched all the time.
>
> There are? Do you refer to the base OS here or do you include the 20000 
> apps
> available for linux? Of which most are not even installed on any given
> computer

    I include both. There are tons of Linux distributions. Some are much 
less secure than others. Some are put out with strong security in mind, 
others aren't. It's a fact of life that security issues exist. The US 
Government has Unix and Linux systems and foreign intelligence agencies try 
to hack them all the time. You should talk to a security expert or read some 
books on the subject before you shoot your mouth off about stuff when it's 
obvious you haven't a clue.

>
>> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than
>> the latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>
>
> Certainly. Well, in your universe the sky is pink

      How many security patches have been released for Vista and how many 
for OS X Tiger. Prove what you're saying. I already know the answer.

John

"PC Guy" <pcguy@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ietd73dgsadr7m1ss27trqjbp2kb0cueqa@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:51:30 -1000, Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote:
>
>>In article <0001HW.C29C245800F9C286F0182648@news.comcast.net>, George
>>Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> > If you want a computer, no
>>> > matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
>>John is totally wrong here. COMPLETELY wrong; unforgiveably WRONG!
>
> John is 100% RIGHT. COMPLETELY right. You, OTOH, are a Mactard and
> it's understood that you are WRONG. Unforgiveably WRONG!
>
>>
>>> > The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the
>>> > latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>Again, completely wrong.
>>The latest version of Windows (Vista) has plenty of holes and things to
>>patch, but patch quantity is no guide to the real threat.
>
> It's had a few vulnerabilities but to date not a single exploit. And
> since this is the metric used by the Mactards we'll have to conclude
> that Vista is a safe OS.
>
>>And since there are basically zero trojans for Mac OS, how he figures
>>there are more than for Windows (with thousands) is beyond rationale.
>>
>>
>>[yet again, cut out COLA cross-posting]

     This is why George Graves is in my killfile. I've informed this dolt 
many times of the OS X trojans and it still hasn't sunk in. He doesn't know 
anything about security. Even CLOSED systems that aren't on the Internet can 
be hacked. Physical access hacking has to be invested in. Thank goodness the 
people who's job it is to protect systems aren't as stupid as Peter and 
George.

John

John Slade wrote:

>       Most Linux distros are pretty secure but they are still subject to 
> being hacked. Anyone who thinks there is no way to gain unauthorized access 
> to a Linux system is living in a dream world.

 From the ground up and on an equal footing IOW 2 systems freshly 
installed in the hands of 2 competent people, the Linux system is more 
secure from the start. Add on all the extra Windows programs like 
antivirus and so forth and in the hands of competent people both systems 
are pretty much equal.
However, most Windows exploits are the result of inept users, mainly 
home users.
Linux does not currently have this problem because the base isn't large 
enough to matter and even within that base the users tend to be more 
technically oriented.
As Linux becomes more of a mainstay as a home operating system and as 
Dell sells Linux boxes to typical end users as opposed to techs  the 
problems with security are going to appear.

Still, comparing apples with apples, Linux is a more secure system but 
no system can make up for inept users.

It was on, or about,  Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:52:29 -0700, that as I was
halfway through a large jam doughnut, John Slade wrote:

> "Peter Köhlmann" <peter.koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:f56ei3$svd$01$1@news.t-online.com...
>> John Slade wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "Raghav" <sharma.raghvendra@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1182073987.458058.28440@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jun 17, 11:46 am, Raghav <sharma.raghven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 P4-2.8 GHz (1.25 GB RAM, 40GB
>>>>> HDD). Its been running fine with some heating problems, and a few
>>>>> fresh installations of win-xp needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I have a need to buy a second laptop (it has to be a laptop
>>>>> since I am moving place to place every few months). Thats when I hit
>>>>> the question.. What to buy...
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, before anything else, I should mention my intended usage of
>>>>> the system...
>>>>>
>>>>>   - Running software like
>>>>>   - Oracle 10g Server,
>>>>>     - Oracle Warehouse Builder
>>>>>     - Some ETL tools...
>>>>>     - some shell programming
>>>>>   - some perl programming
>>>>>   - lots of internet browsing
>>>>>   - some dvd watching... (of course I dont intend to keep the oracle
>>>>> server running when I am watching DVDs...)
>>>>>   - Other experimentation with software... intall.. configure..
>>>>>   use..
>>>>> like/dislike.. uninstall... the usual cycle...
>>>>>
>>>>> A colleague at workplace sang all the praises of Mac to me. I have
>>>>> been doing some shell programming for quite some time now... unix
>>>>> usage pretty heavily..
>>>>> I have tried to install Linux distributions on different partitions
>>>>> of my old laptop (and recently Ubuntu on a VMWare Virtual Machine as
>>>>> well).
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the fact that I have primarily used windows (at work, at home)
>>>>> and unix like (at work, some at home), and NEVER Mac OS, I need help
>>>>> from more experienced people in deciding the OS of choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my usage of windows, I have to agree about the various
>>>>> "unfavourable" situations, virus attacks, unexplained situations,
>>>>> which require reboot of the system, formatting the partition and
>>>>> reinstalling OS helps... stuff like that... I dont like.. as anybody
>>>>> else... And therefore, there is a sureshot inclination to move away
>>>>> from windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my personal view, the hardware choice, as in whether to buy an
>> < snip >
>>
>>>> And of course, not having to worry about viruses.. and not paying for
>>>> the virus preventing/removal software.. help..both mind and pocket..
>>>> :)
>>>
>>>      If you don't want to worry about malware and security holes, then
>>>      I
>>> recommend an abacus for your computing needs. If you want a computer,
>>> no matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
>>
>> This is blatantly wrong.
> 
>        This statement proves you to be clueless about computer security.

Says a windoze user posting with Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138


>> Please show us the "investments" one has to make for linux security
> 
>       Most Linux distros are pretty secure but they are still subject to
> being hacked. Anyone who thinks there is no way to gain unauthorized
> access to a Linux system is living in a dream world.

I regularly check for rootkits, but have had nothing in 10 years of using 
linux. Well, I suppose I must be lucky!

>>> Though the  virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X
>>
>> The virus threat for OSX is *very* *low* The virus threat for linux is
>> currently *zero*
> 
>  This is patently false. 

Bullshit. I've used linux for over 10 years, & never had a worm or a 
trojan. 

> Now when I say virus I include wroms and
> trojans in that. "Virus" can be used as a generic term. Also remember,
> if a virus copies itself at least once, it considered technically a
> virus. That being said...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses

Oh, lookee! He had to look them up, & probably has NO clue as to how 
*much* damage they actually did at the time, nor *which* distributions 
were affected (& no, they did not affect *every* distribution).

>  Now exactly where did you get the information that there are no
> Linux viruses? Are you one of those people like me who just experiment
> with Linux and not use it as an every day thing? 

Well *that* says it all. Here we have another Windoze using GNU/Linux 
expert. 

> Most of those viruses are pretty old in computer terms but hey some
> people still use older versions of Linux and the Linux apps.

Yeah, just like a lot of people use Win95 & Win 98, & you don't think 
*those* OSs have been patched? 


<rest of drivel snipped>

-- 
Using X-No-Archive suggests the post is of little value &
not worth archiving. Anyone marking *all* their posts
XNA is a sure sign of low self-esteem. In short, they
are NOT worth reading to begin with.

"John Slade" <hhitman86@pacbell.net> stated in post
4YUdi.20533$C96.3323@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net on 6/19/07 11:07 AM:

> 
> "PC Guy" <pcguy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ietd73dgsadr7m1ss27trqjbp2kb0cueqa@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:51:30 -1000, Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <0001HW.C29C245800F9C286F0182648@news.comcast.net>, George
>>> Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> If you want a computer, no
>>>>> matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
>>> John is totally wrong here. COMPLETELY wrong; unforgiveably WRONG!
>> 
>> John is 100% RIGHT. COMPLETELY right. You, OTOH, are a Mactard and
>> it's understood that you are WRONG. Unforgiveably WRONG!
>> 
>>> 
>>>>> The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the
>>>>> latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>> Again, completely wrong.
>>> The latest version of Windows (Vista) has plenty of holes and things to
>>> patch, but patch quantity is no guide to the real threat.
>> 
>> It's had a few vulnerabilities but to date not a single exploit. And
>> since this is the metric used by the Mactards we'll have to conclude
>> that Vista is a safe OS.
>> 
>>> And since there are basically zero trojans for Mac OS, how he figures
>>> there are more than for Windows (with thousands) is beyond rationale.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [yet again, cut out COLA cross-posting]
> 
>      This is why George Graves is in my killfile. I've informed this dolt
> many times of the OS X trojans and it still hasn't sunk in. He doesn't know
> anything about security. Even CLOSED systems that aren't on the Internet can
> be hacked. Physical access hacking has to be invested in. Thank goodness the
> people who's job it is to protect systems aren't as stupid as Peter and
> George.

If you have found some Trojans it should be easy for you to point to your
posts where you did so... please do.



-- 
� Teaching is a "real job"
��The path "~/users/username/library/widget" is not common on any OS
� The term "all widgets" does not specify a specific subgroup of widgets

Rozzie wrote:

> John Slade wrote:
> 
>>       Most Linux distros are pretty secure but they are still subject to
>> being hacked. Anyone who thinks there is no way to gain unauthorized
>> access to a Linux system is living in a dream world.
> 
>  From the ground up and on an equal footing IOW 2 systems freshly
> installed in the hands of 2 competent people, the Linux system is more
> secure from the start. Add on all the extra Windows programs like
> antivirus and so forth and in the hands of competent people both systems
> are pretty much equal.

Gods, are you stupid
Please explain how to protect against a new virus, for which there is no
updated AV yet

Simple answer is: You don't. Not a tiny little bit

> However, most Windows exploits are the result of inept users, mainly
> home users.

Bullshit. Most windows exploits are of the type "surf the net and get
infected" without the user doing anything but surfing

> Linux does not currently have this problem because the base isn't large
> enough to matter and even within that base the users tend to be more
> technically oriented.
> As Linux becomes more of a mainstay as a home operating system and as
> Dell sells Linux boxes to typical end users as opposed to techs  the
> problems with security are going to appear.
> 
> Still, comparing apples with apples, Linux is a more secure system but
> no system can make up for inept users.

And here we have it again, the "blame the users" bullshit and the "small
installed base" idiocy

Now read this
It is just *one* example of defusing that silly ideas you have

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/35933.html
-- 
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it.
To mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Manny
<manny@wawa.invalid>
 wrote
on Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:22:27 -0500
<1621055.o4OCPKIhNG@sod.off>:
> Oldtech wrote:
>
>
>> The 
>
>
> Nice nym shift d00d.
>
>
>
>
> Gonna answer the questions posed or will you slink away once more ?
> Message-ID:   <2194089.juGgbjM2Mr@bl9wM3>
>

[from <2194089.juGgbjM2Mr@bl9wM3>:]

    Nerdwizard wrote:
    > The system troubleshooting technique taught to me since
    > 1965, in the Air Force schools, is to find the solid
    > parts, and eliminate the possibly faulty ones, one at a time!

    Splendid !

    Given: Windows XP SP2 desktop, all patches, clean install,
    connected directly to known good cable modem via known
    good CAT5 cable. The only firewall is the native
    WinXP SP2 firewall.  Ipconfig yields 169.254.xx.xx
    on the Via Rhine II interface. No other NIC present.

    Bonus: the Via Rhine II NIC is known good as well.

    How do we obtain a valid RR 24.25.26.xx IP address ?

    List all trouble shooting, in order of operation.
    No software will required.

    (If it takes more than four simple steps, you're
    doing something wrong)

    Same scenario with MacOS 10.3/10.4 ?  (No CLI required)

    (I reckon he'll make like a banana. Let's see.) 

I would also add the following scenarios.

[1] [Free]DOS.  (Yes, this is for masochists only.)

[2] Gnu's HURD.  (Ditto.)

[3] Linux, using any contemporary distro; I'd suggest one of
<any>Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, SuSE, or Mandriva, or any distro
in the top 20 or so of http://www.distrowatch.org .

[4] Any other rather esoteric network-patchable/aware OS,
such as AmigaOS, pre-X MacOS, Amoeba, Atari TOS, ...

Presumably #3 is a little easier than #1 or #2.  #4 is a bit
of an unknown until one specifies the desired OS. :-)

I would also indicate that the troubleshooting sequence
should be such that the cheapest items are checked first.

My post is of course to frame the question only; I do not
have a "Via Rhine II" NIC (the NIC I do have is a 3c59x,
which is ancient).  A backlookup suggests southeast.rr.com,
which is RoadRunner; one assumes a standard DHCP setup,
absent additional information.

I should note that Earthlink's DSL setup does not use a
modem as such any longer (they used to); the box handed
out as part of the service is a small Web-configurable
NAT router.  I do not know whether RoadRunner hands out
similar boxes as part of their service setup.  Any such box
will complicate your question -- plus it masks quite a few
problems since viruses can no longer get into Windows or
Linux via mangled packets going through the port system.
(They can still be invited in through reading emails and
browsing suspect/compromised web sites.)

Of course one might use the router to assign DHCP addresses
locally, if it's sufficiently capable.

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Linux makes one use one's mind.
Windows just messes with one's head.

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:

> "Peter K�hlmann" <peter.koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message 
> news:f56ei3$svd$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> > John Slade wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Though the  virus threat of Linux is much lower than that of OS X
> >
> > The virus threat for OSX is *very* *low*
> > The virus threat for linux is currently *zero*
> 
>        This is patently false. Now when I say virus I include wroms and
> trojans in that. "Virus" can be used as a generic term. Also remember, if a
> virus copies itself at least once, it considered technically a virus. That
> being said...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_computer_viruses

Wow, a list of Linux viruses from antiquity.
 
>       Now exactly where did you get the information that there are no Linux
> viruses? Are you one of those people like me who just experiment with Linux
> and not use it as an every day thing? Most of those viruses are pretty old
> in computer terms but hey some people still use older versions of Linux and
> the Linux apps.
> 
> >
> >> and Windows,
> >
> > The virus threat for windows is *extremely* *high*
> 
>      How many Vista viruses are there?

So there we have it, Ladies and Gentlemen, Slade compares a list of
ancient Linux exploits with an OS that's only a few months old.

Who would write an exploit for Vista anyway? There's probably more
active Linux machines online than Vista machines, and certainly more OS
X machines.

Now compare OS X with MacOS Classic, Linux and Windows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_statistics

No OS X viruses to date.

-- 

Immunity is better than innoculation.

Peter

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:07:25 -0700, "John Slade"
<hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote:

>
>"PC Guy" <pcguy@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:ietd73dgsadr7m1ss27trqjbp2kb0cueqa@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:51:30 -1000, Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <0001HW.C29C245800F9C286F0182648@news.comcast.net>, George
>>>Graves <gmgraves2@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > If you want a computer, no
>>>> > matter what OS you have, you will have to invest in security.
>>>John is totally wrong here. COMPLETELY wrong; unforgiveably WRONG!
>>
>> John is 100% RIGHT. COMPLETELY right. You, OTOH, are a Mactard and
>> it's understood that you are WRONG. Unforgiveably WRONG!
>>
>>>
>>>> > The newest available versions of OS X has more security holes than the
>>>> > latest version of Windows and more trojans as well.
>>>Again, completely wrong.
>>>The latest version of Windows (Vista) has plenty of holes and things to
>>>patch, but patch quantity is no guide to the real threat.
>>
>> It's had a few vulnerabilities but to date not a single exploit. And
>> since this is the metric used by the Mactards we'll have to conclude
>> that Vista is a safe OS.
>>
>>>And since there are basically zero trojans for Mac OS, how he figures
>>>there are more than for Windows (with thousands) is beyond rationale.
>>>
>>>
>>>[yet again, cut out COLA cross-posting]
>
>     This is why George Graves is in my killfile.

I can't see placing him in my killfile. He's one of the chief Mactards
that makes this forum so fun.

>I've informed this dolt many times of the OS X trojans and it still hasn't sunk in. He doesn't know 
>anything about security. Even CLOSED systems that aren't on the Internet can 
>be hacked. Physical access hacking has to be invested in. Thank goodness the 
>people who's job it is to protect systems aren't as stupid as Peter and 
>George.

They're Mactards...they'll never get it. They're quick to say "You
don't work in so and so industry (like photography) so you're
unqualified to comment on so and so" yet they have no problem
discussing computer issues even though, from what I can tell, the
majority of them are not in IT.

After takin' a swig o' grog, Peter K�hlmann belched out this bit o' wisdom:

> Rozzie wrote:
>
>> However, most Windows exploits are the result of inept users, mainly
>> home users.

One would think Rozzie would be exploited up the ying-yang, then <grin>.

> Bullshit. Most windows exploits are of the type "surf the net and get
> infected" without the user doing anything but surfing
>
> . . .
>
> Now read this
> It is just *one* example of defusing that silly ideas you have
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/35933.html

   "Although I'm only about halfway through trying to categorize attacks
   listed in the ICAT database in terms of whether or not they can be
   exploited to steal data, it's already obvious that one difference is
   so sharply demarcated that it allows an unambiguous answer to the
   question: Windows and Unix attacks are not drawn from the same
   population of possible attacks.

   Dropping denial-of-service and x86 architecture attacks on Linux as
   unlikely to remain undetected leaves a stark contrast between
   "qualifying" attacks on Windows and "qualifying" attacks on Unix.
   Windows attacks play the numbers game: Spray the code around the
   internet and wait for vulnerable systems to self-report. Nearly all
   known effective attacks on Risc-based Unix require legal access to
   the machine and therefore have to be targeted one machine at a time.

   Don't misunderstand. There are lots of attacks on Risc/Unix that
   require Internet distribution. They just don't work for data-theft
   purposes. Like denial-of-service attacks, they don't make money for
   the perpetrators. For example, my winface.com server gets probed
   almost every day and seriously attacked several times a week with
   dtlogin being a favorite target. Fundamentally, however, that's just
   vandalism; even if they got full control of the machine, it wouldn't
   get them a nickel.

   Bottom Line

   Right now, all known real attacks on Unix outside the x86 world
   require that the attacker have the right to compile and run new code
   on that machine. Indeed, most are variants of traditional Unix
   attacks focused on upgrading user authority by taking advantage of a
   timing or control issue in a legal call to a suid function or on
   making use of a piece of linked or re-entrant code running under an
   authority higher than the user's.

   The Windows situation is completely different. There the rule seems
   to be that you own any machine you can access with no one looking
   over your shoulder. The vast majority of even the most recent attacks
   assume you don't have any kind of legal access.

   . . .

   What that means is that the number of attacks of each kind doesn't
   reflect the relative dominance of the targets, which leaves us free
   to pursue alternative hypotheses, including my favorite: Windows gets
   attacked more simply because it's easier and therefore more
   profitable for comparable levels of effort.

   . . .

   It's also technically easier, so what we have here is a winning
   combination for Microsoft of easier thefts producing greater value at
   lower risk -- something that has everything to do with technology and
   nothing at all to do with market dominance.

And I like this:

   Paul Murphy, a LinuxInsider columnist, wrote and published The Unix
   Guide to Defenestration. Murphy is a 20-year veteran of the IT
   consulting industry, specializing in Unix and Unix-related management
   issues. 

-- 
Defenestrate Windows!

Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:

/restore .sig

> Defenestrate Windows!

Sounds painful.

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

..----
| "People are not happy in stinking hellholes of abject poverty, what
| is true is that once you cross subsistence ... additional increases
| in wealth have virtually no effect on well-being ... This is worth
| knowing in case you have a choice between "X" and making more
| money, almost certainly "X" is what you should choose."
|   - Barry Schwartz
`----

Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.21-1.3194.fc7
 00:26:28 up 20 days, 12:12,  2 users,  load average: 1.10, 0.64, 0.36

[H]omer wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
> 
> /restore .sig
> 
>> Defenestrate Windows!
> 
> Sounds painful.
> 

Throwing Windows out of the window? Why?

-- 
Regards,

Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Gregory Shearman
<ZekeGregory@netscape.net>
 wrote
on Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:09:03 +1000
<1778816.tu88tdnvQk@netscape.net>:
> [H]omer wrote:
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
>> 
>> /restore .sig
>> 
>>> Defenestrate Windows!
>> 
>> Sounds painful.
>> 
>
> Throwing Windows out of the window? Why?
>

Well, for starters, passers-by might not appreciate the
new and innovative Vista packaging bonking them on the
noggin... :-)

(though it might be a toss-up between being driven in
an ambulance to the hospital with a serious head gash,
and laughing hysterically at Microsoft's attempts at new,
innovative Vista packaging...)

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
fortune: not found

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com