http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/375240/dell_releases_ubuntu-
powered_cloud_servers/
http://goo.gl/wVraR

<quotes>
Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been customized 
to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced Wednesday.

Dell has outfitted its PowerEdge C2100 and C6100 servers with Canonical's 
Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud (UEC), an implementation of the Eucalyptus private 
cloud software that runs on the Ubuntu Server Edition operating system.

Dell is marketing the servers to organizations developing applications to 
run on Amazon Web Services (AWS). Organizations could use the servers to 
test the applications locally before uploading them to Amazon's paid 
service. The servers have a preconfigured testing and development 
environment. Eucalyptus duplicates the AWS APIs (application programming 
interfaces).

It marks the first time that Dell has offered the Linux-based Ubuntu OS in 
servers, although it has used the desktop edition of Ubuntu for some of its 
netbooks, laptops and PCs.
</quotes>

-- 
Big Brother is watching ... so are we

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:

> 
> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
> Wednesday.
> 

I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not 
allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?

On 2/3/2011 2:11 PM, stukie wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>
>>
>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>> Wednesday.
>>
>
> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not
> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?


The cola idiots only bring that lame and dishonest excuse out when 
someone points out Linux's low desktop user base.

When you stuff it down their throats, they run away and ignore you. 
Later they come back with the same whine about "exclusionary OEM deals".

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:42:48 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Later they come back with the same whine about "exclusionary OEM deals".

while sporting the following perls of wisdom:

"Windows was created to keep stupid people away from UNIX."

"The road to Hell is paved with ignorant twits who know nothing about GNU/
Linux."

"Windows is the choice of idiots who shouldn't be let anywhere near a 
computer in the first place."

effective advocacy, I am sure... ;)

On 2/3/2011 4:23 PM, stukie wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:42:48 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Later they come back with the same whine about "exclusionary OEM deals".
>
> while sporting the following perls of wisdom:
>
> "Windows was created to keep stupid people away from UNIX."
>
> "The road to Hell is paved with ignorant twits who know nothing about GNU/
> Linux."
>
> "Windows is the choice of idiots who shouldn't be let anywhere near a
> computer in the first place."
>
> effective advocacy, I am sure... ;)


Surely.

They're kidding, anyway; they only say that stuff at night, here on 
cola.  By day almost all of them have Windows jobs.

stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:42:48 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Later they come back with the same whine about "exclusionary OEM deals".
>
> while sporting the following perls of wisdom:
>
> "Windows was created to keep stupid people away from UNIX."
>
> "The road to Hell is paved with ignorant twits who know nothing about GNU/
> Linux."
>
> "Windows is the choice of idiots who shouldn't be let anywhere near a 
> computer in the first place."
>
> effective advocacy, I am sure... ;)

Certainly more effective than your trolling!

-- 
Loose bits sink chips.

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:10:48 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> effective advocacy, I am sure... ;)
> 
> Certainly more effective than your trolling!
>

Please don't let your perverted definition of "advocacy" stop you from 
refuting anything I said...

stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:10:48 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> effective advocacy, I am sure... ;)
>> 
>> Certainly more effective than your trolling!
>
> Please don't let your perverted definition of "advocacy" stop you from 
> refuting anything I said...

Troll, there was nothing of substance to refute!

-- 
Littering is dumb.
		-- Ronald Macdonald

stukie <egoprg2@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>
>> 
>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>> Wednesday.
>> 
>
> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not 
> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?

Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?

On 2011-02-04, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> stukie <egoprg2@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>>> Wednesday.
>>> 
>>
>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not 
>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
>
> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?

    What flip flop?

    This is a server.

    Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.

-- 
	Nothing quite gives you an understanding of mysql's         |||
	popularity as does an attempt to do some simple date       / | \
	manipulations in postgres.

JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2011-02-04, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>> stukie <egoprg2@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>>>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>>>> Wednesday.
>>>
>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not 
>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
>>
>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>
>     What flip flop?
>
>     This is a server.
>
>     Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.

"Hadron" is playing dumb.

Oh, I forgot.  He *is* dumb.  What does that make "stukie"?

-- 
I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean.
		-- G. K. Chesterton

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:18:13 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> 
> Troll, there was nothing of substance to refute!
>

So you concede all the points then... ;)

Nice move on your part as facts can be interpreted but not refuted.

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:51:34 +0100, Hadron wrote:

> 
> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>

I guess they would rather "advocate" than say...

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>> Hadron quacked:
>>>
>>> stukie trolled:
>>>>
>>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not 
>>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?

Nope.  You are lying, troll.

*plonk*

(Cue for M$ thugs to attack me as being wrong, and to claim that we
have indeed declared that "MSFT does not allow dealers to sell
computers with Linux installed".)

>>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>>
>>     What flip flop?
>>
>>     This is a server.
>>
>>     Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.
>
>"Hadron" is playing dumb.

As long as it is an attack upon FOSS or its advocates, "Hadron" will
suck-up to the most stupid, absurd, and dishonest of trolls.  (See sig
for a nice example.)

>Oh, I forgot.  He *is* dumb.  What does that make "stukie"?

Besides a mentally-stunted dipshit troll? 

-- 
Shit:  Why the heck are the "advocates" so much against choice?

"Hadron" sucks-up:  Because the "advocates" don't have a clue. 

chrisv stated in post 5hgok69090i4opgltqf8l9gljlo1gffr1s@4ax.com on 2/4/11
11:25 AM:

> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> 
>> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hadron quacked:
>>>> 
>>>> stukie trolled:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not
>>>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
> 
> Nope.  You are lying, troll.

This is a continual complaint - that somehow MS is stopping OEMs from
selling Linux, with deals where they have to pay for MS licenses for all
computers, etc.  

> 
> *plonk*
> 
> (Cue for M$ thugs to attack me as being wrong, and to claim that we
> have indeed declared that "MSFT does not allow dealers to sell
> computers with Linux installed".)

You might be able to nit pick the idea of "not allow" to work against, but
however you word it, that is a very common complaint in COLA.  Heck, Homer
has several links he shows from long ago supposedly "proving" that MS does
this now.
 
>>>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>>> 
>>>     What flip flop?
>>> 
>>>     This is a server.
>>> 
>>>     Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.
>> 
>> "Hadron" is playing dumb.
> 
> As long as it is an attack upon FOSS or its advocates, "Hadron" will
> suck-up to the most stupid, absurd, and dishonest of trolls.  (See sig
> for a nice example.)
> 
>> Oh, I forgot.  He *is* dumb.  What does that make "stukie"?
> 
> Besides a mentally-stunted dipshit troll?

See: as I noted, you are not nearly as good of an advocate as is An Old
Friend.  He is a real advocate.  I wish you could be more like him.

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On 2/4/2011 10:55 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2011-02-04, Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> stukie<egoprg2@gmail.com>  writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>>>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>>>> Wednesday.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not
>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
>>
>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>
>      What flip flop?
>
>      This is a server.
>
>      Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.

What an ignorant statement.

"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message 
news:iihokn$j4l$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 2/4/2011 10:55 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> On 2011-02-04, Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> stukie<egoprg2@gmail.com>  writes:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>>>>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>>>>> Wednesday.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not
>>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
>>>
>>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>>
>>      What flip flop?
>>
>>      This is a server.
>>
>>      Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.
>
> What an ignorant statement.

Evidently JED forgot to tell Michael Dell about this power that he and other 
advocates thinks Microsoft exerts over them.

I actually saw a similar interview on television somewhere where he was 
answering questions at some medium-sized gathering.


<quote>
Michael Dell, chairman of Dell Inc. believes in offering Linux on the 
desktop, server, and workstation. What he doesn't believe in, for now, is 
giving Linux full support on the desktop. In an exclusive interview, Dell 
explained his company's Linux desktop strategy to DesktopLinux.com's Steven 
J. Vaughan Nichols.

"If we say we like Ubuntu, then people will say we picked the wrong one. If 
we say we like and support Ubuntu, Novell, Red Hat, and Xandros, then 
someone would ask us, 'Why don't you support Mandriva? The challenge we have 
with picking one is that we think we'd disenchant the other distributions' 
supporters."

In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."

***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions. 
"Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't care. 
It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
</quote>
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html

On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
> "DFS"<nospam@dfs_.com>  wrote in message
> news:iihokn$j4l$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 2/4/2011 10:55 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>> On 2011-02-04, Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>> stukie<egoprg2@gmail.com>   writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>>>>>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>>>>>> Wednesday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not
>>>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>>>
>>>       What flip flop?
>>>
>>>       This is a server.
>>>
>>>       Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.
>>
>> What an ignorant statement.
>
> Evidently JED forgot to tell Michael Dell about this power that he and other
> advocates thinks Microsoft exerts over them.

Plus, MS "controls and exerts power" over much of the server market. 
And the games console market.



> I actually saw a similar interview on television somewhere where he was
> answering questions at some medium-sized gathering.
>
>
> <quote>
> Michael Dell, chairman of Dell Inc. believes in offering Linux on the
> desktop, server, and workstation. What he doesn't believe in, for now, is
> giving Linux full support on the desktop. In an exclusive interview, Dell
> explained his company's Linux desktop strategy to DesktopLinux.com's Steven
> J. Vaughan Nichols.
>
> "If we say we like Ubuntu, then people will say we picked the wrong one. If
> we say we like and support Ubuntu, Novell, Red Hat, and Xandros, then
> someone would ask us, 'Why don't you support Mandriva? The challenge we have
> with picking one is that we think we'd disenchant the other distributions'
> supporters."
>
> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>
> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't care.
> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
> </quote>
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html

Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have ever 
drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.

"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message 
news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't 
>> care.
>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>> </quote>
>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>
> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have ever 
> drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>

The interview that I saw on television was even more direct. There's 
probably a video of it "somewhere" on the web but I'm not about to spend 
hours looking for it.

In that interview Michael Dell was asked outright if Microsoft ever 
pressured Dell to give preference to Windows over Linux. His answer went 
above and beyond what was askied in the question - he said something to the 
effect of  -  'Not only has Microsoft not pressured us. Microsoft has never 
even brought up the issue.'

So it comes down to who would have better knowledge of the facts. A bunch of 
anonymous COLA nyms posting their own theories or Michael Dell who's name is 
both on the CEO's door and on the building itself.  Hmmmm..... who would 
possibly know better?

(Queue some idiot to now claim that Dell is lying. Anything to keep their 
conspiracy theory alive.)

On 2011-02-04, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message 
> news:iihokn$j4l$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 2/4/2011 10:55 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>> On 2011-02-04, Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> stukie<egoprg2@gmail.com>  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:41:44 +0000, Robin T Cox wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dell has released two servers for the U.S. market that have been
>>>>>> customized to run Ubuntu-based cloud services, the company announced
>>>>>> Wednesday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought one of the main beefs in COLA was that big bad MSFT does not
>>>>> allow dealers to sell computers with Linux installed?
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. What's with the flip-flop?
>>>
>>>      What flip flop?
>>>
>>>      This is a server.
>>>
>>>      Microsoft exerts all of it's power in desktop machines.
>>
>> What an ignorant statement.
>
> Evidently JED forgot to tell Michael Dell about this power that he and other 
> advocates thinks Microsoft exerts over them.
>
> I actually saw a similar interview on television somewhere where he was 
> answering questions at some medium-sized gathering.
>
>
><quote>
> Michael Dell, chairman of Dell Inc. believes in offering Linux on the 
> desktop, server, and workstation. What he doesn't believe in, for now, is 

   Well, the desktop side of things is rather lackluster.

   They do have very respectable Linux server offerings.

[deletia]

   I don't just judge by propaganda and press releases.

-- 
       Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to 
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens        |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal   / | \
affairs, government and business.

stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:18:13 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Troll, there was nothing of substance to refute!
>
> So you concede all the points then... ;)
>
> Nice move on your part as facts can be interpreted but not refuted.

You posted some quotes.

Nothing of substance, therefore nothing of substance to refute.

-- 
A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture.  You don't have to go.
You'll just be walking down the street and...  Ooohh, that's much better.
		-- Steven Wright

Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> <quote>
> Michael Dell, chairman of Dell Inc. believes in offering Linux on the 
> desktop, server, and workstation. What he doesn't believe in, for now, is 
> giving Linux full support on the desktop. In an exclusive interview, Dell 
> explained his company's Linux desktop strategy to DesktopLinux.com's Steven 
> J. Vaughan Nichols.
>
> "If we say we like Ubuntu, then people will say we picked the wrong one. If 
> we say we like and support Ubuntu, Novell, Red Hat, and Xandros, then 
> someone would ask us, 'Why don't you support Mandriva? The challenge we have 
> with picking one is that we think we'd disenchant the other distributions' 
> supporters."
>
> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>
> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions. 
> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't care. 
> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
> </quote>
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html

On the other hand, I recall an interview where Dell was asked about his
relationship with Microsoft, and he basically just rolled his eyes.

Don't have the cite handy.  Maybe later.

Besides, the above probably refers to server customers.

-- 
Lack of skill dictates economy of style.
		-- Joey Ramone

Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message 
> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't 
>>> care.
>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>>> </quote>
>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>
>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have ever 
>> drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.

Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.

Silly troll.

> The interview that I saw on television was even more direct. There's 
> probably a video of it "somewhere" on the web but I'm not about to spend 
> hours looking for it.
>
> In that interview Michael Dell was asked outright if Microsoft ever 
> pressured Dell to give preference to Windows over Linux. His answer went 
> above and beyond what was askied in the question - he said something to the 
> effect of  -  'Not only has Microsoft not pressured us. Microsoft has never 
> even brought up the issue.'
>
> So it comes down to who would have better knowledge of the facts. A bunch of 
> anonymous COLA nyms posting their own theories or Michael Dell who's name is 
> both on the CEO's door and on the building itself.  Hmmmm..... who would 
> possibly know better?
>
> (Queue some idiot to now claim that Dell is lying. Anything to keep their 
> conspiracy theory alive.)

Actually, Dell could be weasel-wording.  'No "pressure" from Microsoft, but
we sure get a heck of a deal if we stick Linux in the back corner and
plaster "Dell recommends Windows" all over the place, including on the ads
that <cough cough> advertise Ubuntu machines.'

Remember, this is the company that got slapped for taking illegal subsidies
from Intel.

So I don't think suspicion about what is behind Dell's statements
is in any way idiotic.

-- 
I am a friend of the working man, and I would rather be his friend
than be one.
		-- Clarence Darrow

"Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
news:iihrg3$avp$3@news.eternal-september.org...
> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't
>>>> care.
>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>>>> </quote>
>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>
>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have ever
>>> drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>
> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.

Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for which 
not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of evidence other 
than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.


> Silly troll.
>
>> The interview that I saw on television was even more direct. There's
>> probably a video of it "somewhere" on the web but I'm not about to spend
>> hours looking for it.
>>
>> In that interview Michael Dell was asked outright if Microsoft ever
>> pressured Dell to give preference to Windows over Linux. His answer went
>> above and beyond what was askied in the question - he said something to 
>> the
>> effect of  -  'Not only has Microsoft not pressured us. Microsoft has 
>> never
>> even brought up the issue.'
>>
>> So it comes down to who would have better knowledge of the facts. A bunch 
>> of
>> anonymous COLA nyms posting their own theories or Michael Dell who's name 
>> is
>> both on the CEO's door and on the building itself.  Hmmmm..... who would
>> possibly know better?
>>
>> (Queue some idiot to now claim that Dell is lying. Anything to keep their
>> conspiracy theory alive.)
>
> Actually, Dell could be weasel-wording.  'No "pressure" from Microsoft, 
> but
> we sure get a heck of a deal if we stick Linux in the back corner and
> plaster "Dell recommends Windows" all over the place, including on the ads
> that <cough cough> advertise Ubuntu machines.'

Or he could simply be telling the truth.


> Remember, this is the company that got slapped for taking illegal 
> subsidies
> from Intel.
>
> So I don't think suspicion about what is behind Dell's statements
> is in any way idiotic.

The problem about the continued suspicion is that the SEC investigated Dell 
for several months. If there were any other improprieties they would have 
been discovered during the investigation.

On 2011-02-04, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
> news:iihrg3$avp$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't
>>>>> care.
>>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>>>>> </quote>
>>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>>
>>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have ever
>>>> drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>>
>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>
> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for which 
> not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of evidence other 
> than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.

   No it doesn't.

   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?

[deletia]

-- 
       Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to 
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens        |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal   / | \
affairs, government and business.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>Actually, Dell could be weasel-wording.  'No "pressure" from Microsoft, but
>we sure get a heck of a deal if we stick Linux in the back corner and
>plaster "Dell recommends Windows" all over the place, including on the ads
>that <cough cough> advertise Ubuntu machines.'
>
>Remember, this is the company that got slapped for taking illegal subsidies
>from Intel.
>
>So I don't think suspicion about what is behind Dell's statements
>is in any way idiotic.

It's not.  Microshaft has a huge arsenal of back-door, dirty-dealing
"incentives".

It's been proven in court.

The troll is a liar.

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 16:29:40 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> 
> You posted some quotes.
> 
> Nothing of substance, therefore nothing of substance to refute.
>

I also called you a name.

I will apologize for it if you can explain how and when it happened.

stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 16:29:40 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> You posted some quotes.
>> 
>> Nothing of substance, therefore nothing of substance to refute.
>
> I also called you a name.
>
> I will apologize for it if you can explain how and when it happened.

No need.

-- 
Insanity is the final defense ... It's hard to get a refund when the
salesman is sniffing your crotch and baying at the moon.

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:14:54 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>>
>> I also called you a name.
>>
>> I will apologize for it if you can explain how and when it happened.
> 
> No need.
>

Another selective dodge, Chris. Nicely done.

At least you didn't insult me this time so maybe there is hope for you 
yet... :)

On 2/4/2011 4:37 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

<snip>

>> (Queue some idiot to now claim that Dell is lying. Anything to keep their
>> conspiracy theory alive.)

Up pops Linosuck, so you were right.





> Actually, Dell could be weasel-wording.  'No "pressure" from Microsoft, but
> we sure get a heck of a deal if we stick Linux in the back corner and
> plaster "Dell recommends Windows" all over the place, including on the ads
> that<cough cough>  advertise Ubuntu machines.'

Let's see: they have to pay for Windows, but they don't have to pay a 
cent for Linux.  Yet they recommend Windows.





> Remember, this is the company that got slapped for taking illegal subsidies
> from Intel.

Hmmm... if it's a company you think is lying or corrupt, you probably 
use their products to make a living by day.




> So I don't think suspicion about what is behind Dell's statements
> is in any way idiotic.

It's beyond idiotic; it's cola Linux "advocacy".

Here you go, why don't you find a SINGLE iota of support for your stupid 
"suspicion" that Microsoft pressures Dell, or controls Dell, or 
influences their decision to sell or not sell Linux systems.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=michael+dell+interview&aq=1

Or slink away.

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnikoug0.3gs.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2011-02-04, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message
>> news:iihrg3$avp$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I wouldn't
>>>>>> care.
>>>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>>>>>> </quote>
>>>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have ever
>>>>> drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>>>
>>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>>
>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for 
>> which
>> not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of evidence 
>> other
>> than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.
>
>   No it doesn't.
>
>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?

If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.

He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from Microsoft 
in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against them in the future 
should it ever be revealed.

 

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:51:34 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:

> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> news:slrnikoug0.3gs.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2011-02-04, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iihrg3$avp$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I
>>>>>>> wouldn't care.
>>>>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. ***** </quote>
>>>>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have
>>>>>> ever drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>>>>
>>>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>>>
>>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for
>>> which
>>> not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of evidence
>>> other
>>> than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.
>>
>>   No it doesn't.
>>
>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
> 
> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
> 
> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against them
> in the future should it ever be revealed.

And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?

-- 
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581 
CentOS 5.5 or VectorLinux Deluxe 6.0

"RonB" <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iii5jc$7vs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:51:34 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>> news:slrnikoug0.3gs.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>> On 2011-02-04, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:iihrg3$avp$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>>>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I
>>>>>>>> wouldn't care.
>>>>>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. ***** </quote>
>>>>>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have
>>>>>>> ever drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>>>>
>>>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for
>>>> which
>>>> not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of evidence
>>>> other
>>>> than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.
>>>
>>>   No it doesn't.
>>>
>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>>
>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
>>
>> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
>> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against them
>> in the future should it ever be revealed.
>
> And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?

He's said this on at least two occasions.  Feel free to show *ANY* evidence 
that he's lying.

 

RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:51:34 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>>>>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>>>>
>>>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for
>>>> which not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of
>>>> evidence other than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.

You mean, like this?

   http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-States-Debate-Remedies/

   2002-03-18

   Kuney continued to bang the drum over Microsofts alleged pressure on OEMs
   by introducing a summer 2000 memo from Microsofts former OEM chieftain
   Joachim Kempin to Gates. "Im thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in
   the past with anti-Linux. ... They should do a delicate dance," Kempin
   said in the note. Those who did not dance to Microsofts tune would be hit
   with restricted source code deliveries, Kuney told the courtroom. Gates
   forwarded the Kempin memo to Ballmer, without questioning such
   strategies, Kuney added. 

   http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-pressured-dell-to-drop-linux

   20 March 2002

   The nine US states holding out for further antitrust action against
   Microsoft dropped a bombshell in court yesterday when it was claimed Dell
   came under pressure to drop its Linux plans because it was a "premium
   partner" for Windows 2000.

   The damaging allegation was revealed by a lawyer for the nine states, who
   said that a memo sent to CEO Steve Ballmer suggested he "remind" Dell
   that promoting other operating systems wasn't appropriate for such a
   close partner of Microsoft.

>>>   No it doesn't.
>>>
>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>> 
>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.

   http://news.cnet.com/Did-Microsoft-want-to-whack-Dell-over-its-Linux-dealings/2100-1014_3-6153904.html

   "We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value,"
   wrote Paul Flessner, a senior vice president in Microsoft's server
   applications unit. 

This next quote is essentially a self-nuke, in my opinion:

   "While this may sound provocative, what counts at the end of the day is
   what actually happened," he said. "Looking at subsequent portions of this
   e-mail thread, which the plaintiffs chose to exclude from their exhibits,
   it's evident that we didn't take any retaliatory action against Dell. In
   fact, we very clearly increased our investment with Dell." 

I.e. We decided money would work better than punishment this time.

>> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
>> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against them
>> in the future should it ever be revealed.
>
> And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?

A carrot instead of a stick?

   http://kara.allthingsd.com/20090108/the-entire-internal-microsoft-memo-on-new-dell-and-verizon-deal/

   Microsoft's top online execs, Yusuf Mehdi and Satya Nadella sent out
   about the deal the tech giant signed with Dell (DELL) and Verizon (VZ) to
   distribute its search and other products.

   Microsoft (MSFT) is opening its fat wallet to do such a deal and try to
   best archrival Google (GOOG). It was announced last night at Microsoft
   CEO Steve Ballmer's keynote kickoff for the Consumer Electronics Show
   in Las Vegas.

Dell's wandering?  Nothing a few simoleons across the palm can't cure.

-- 
If you keep anything long enough, you can throw it away.

"Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
news:iii9op$k7f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:51:34 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>>>>>
>>>>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for
>>>>> which not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of
>>>>> evidence other than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.
>
> You mean, like this?
>
>   http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-States-Debate-Remedies/
>
>   2002-03-18
>
>   Kuney continued to bang the drum over Microsofts alleged pressure on 
> OEMs
>   by introducing a summer 2000 memo from Microsofts former OEM chieftain
>   Joachim Kempin to Gates. "Im thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in
>   the past with anti-Linux. ... They should do a delicate dance," Kempin
>   said in the note. Those who did not dance to Microsofts tune would be 
> hit
>   with ....

"thinking of..."
"would be..."

Talking about something in 2002 and actually doing it are two different 
things.



>   http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-pressured-dell-to-drop-linux
>
>   20 March 2002
>
>   The nine US states holding out for further antitrust action against
>   Microsoft dropped a bombshell in court yesterday when it was claimed 
> Dell
>   came under pressure to drop its Linux plans because it was a "premium
>   partner" for Windows 2000.
>
>   The damaging allegation was revealed by a lawyer for the nine states, 
> who

Here we have a "claim" and an "allegation" from 2002 - so was that 
allegation ever proven?



>>>>
>>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>>>
>>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
>
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/Did-Microsoft-want-to-whack-Dell-over-its-Linux-dealings/2100-1014_3-6153904.html
>
>   "We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value,"
>   wrote Paul Flessner, a senior vice president in Microsoft's server
>   applications unit.

Something that one guy thought they "should do" but never actually did.


> This next quote is essentially a self-nuke, in my opinion:
>
>   "While this may sound provocative, what counts at the end of the day is
>   what actually happened," he said. "Looking at subsequent portions of 
> this
>   e-mail thread, which the plaintiffs chose to exclude from their 
> exhibits,
>   it's evident that we didn't take any retaliatory action against Dell. In
>   fact, we very clearly increased our investment with Dell."

Emphasis on "we DIDN'T take any retaliatory action against Dell."  That's 
the part of the email that the plaintiffs who filed the suit elected not to 
even bother to include in their lawsuit because there's nothing there that 
would help their case.



> I.e. We decided money would work better than punishment this time.

Translation - Dell wasn't strong armed and there is no evidence they were.



 

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:42:18 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:

> "RonB" <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:iii5jc$7vs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:51:34 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnikoug0.3gs.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>>> On 2011-02-04, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:iihrg3$avp$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux
>>>>>>>>> decisions. "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they
>>>>>>>>> did, I wouldn't care.
>>>>>>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. ***** </quote>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have
>>>>>>>> ever drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
>>>>>
>>>>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory"
>>>>> for which
>>>>> not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of evidence
>>>>> other
>>>>> than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.
>>>>
>>>>   No it doesn't.
>>>>
>>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>>>
>>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
>>>
>>> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
>>> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against
>>> them in the future should it ever be revealed.
>>
>> And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?
> 
> He's said this on at least two occasions.  Feel free to show *ANY*
> evidence that he's lying.

Nothing to do with my point. Often people flatly deny the truth when they 
lie. You're argument here was very weak.

-- 
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581 
CentOS 5.5 or VectorLinux Deluxe 6.0

Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
> news:iii9op$k7f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Logically yes. But /realistically/ it negates the entire "theory" for
>>>>>> which not one person has yet to produce even the slightest bit of
>>>>>> evidence other than some Halloween documents from the early 1990's.
>>
>> You mean, like this?
>>
>>   http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-States-Debate-Remedies/
>>
> Talking about something in 2002 and actually doing it are two different 
> things.
>
>>   http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-pressured-dell-to-drop-linux
>
> Here we have a "claim" and an "allegation" from 2002 - so was that 
> allegation ever proven?
>
>> http://news.cnet.com/Did-Microsoft-want-to-whack-Dell-over-its-Linux-dealings/2100-1014_3-6153904.html
>
> Something that one guy thought they "should do" but never actually did.
>
> Emphasis on "we DIDN'T take any retaliatory action against Dell."  That's 
> the part of the email that the plaintiffs who filed the suit elected not to 
> even bother to include in their lawsuit because there's nothing there that 
> would help their case.
>
>> I.e. We decided money would work better than punishment this time.
>
> Translation - Dell wasn't strong armed and there is no evidence they were.

How about Gateway, then?

   http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CGN/is_1999_Feb_26/ai_53969703/

How about Hitachi?

   http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CGN/is_3538/ai_53216063/

   Hitachi Offers Pre-Installed Beos On Desktop
   Computergram International, Nov 13, 1998 

followed later by

   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/20/be_inc_sues_microsoft/

   Be Inc is suing Microsoft for the destruction of its business.  . . .

   Hitachi had agreed to license BeOS, and ship a dual-boot system using
   Be's boot loader and an icon on the desktop that enabled a Windows user
   to reboot into BeOS with one click.

   "Microsoft sent two U.S. managers to Japan who expressed their 'anger'
   with Hitachi over its arrangement with Be, and 'reminded' Hitachi of the
   terms of its Windows license," according to the claim. "

How about companies using ARM?

   http://www.techeye.net/hardware/intel-and-microsoft-strongarm-tablet-makers-over-arm

   Intel and Microsoft strong arm tablet makers over ARM
   27 May 2010

How about OOXML?

   http://www.osor.eu/news/eu-ibm-microsoft-strong-armed-ooxml

   EU: IBM: 'Microsoft strong-armed OOXML standardisation process'

How about the OLPC?

   http://technocrat.net/d/2008/1/10/33518/

   Why Microsoft Must Control One Laptop Per Child 
   Thu Jan 10 

   It's a threat Microsoft can't let stand: the entire third world learning
   Linux as children, and growing up to use it. And Microsoft is going to
   get its way.

So you want us to believe, on the basis of an interview by a CEO on the hot
seat, that Microsoft was somehow squeamish when it came to putting pressure
on DELL?

There's a reason Microsoft is in litigation so much, and it is not just
others picking on poor little Microsoft.

Pull my finger, dude.

-- 
Nowlan's Theory:
	He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
	the next freeway exit.

Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message 
>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I
>>>> wouldn't care.
>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>>>> </quote>
>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>
>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have
>>> ever drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>
> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.

Not even that, since Michael Dell was caught red-handed lying about
his criminal "deal" with Intel, then prosecuted for it by the SEC, so
what's to stop him lying about "deals" with Microsoft? 

Meanwhile, the gangsters at Microsoft have a documented history of
leaning on Dell:

   "we should whack [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings]"

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/9000/PX09280.pdf

[quote]
The States' remedy hearing opened in DC yesterday, and States attorney
Steven Kuney produced a devastating memo from Kempin, then in charge of
Microsoft's OEM business, written after Judge Jackson had ordered his
break-up of the company. Kempin raises the possibility of threatening
Dell and other PC builders which promote Linux.

"I'm thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with
anti-Linux. ... they should do a delicate dance," Kempin wrote to
Ballmer, in what is sure to be a memorable addition to the phrases
("knife the baby", "cut off the air supply") with which Microsoft
enriched the English language in the first trial. Unlike those two, this
is not contested.
[/quote]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/
http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03112.pdf

-- 
K.                           | Ancient Chinese Proverb:
http://slated.org            | "The road to Hell is paved with
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky   | ignorant twits who know nothing
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 42 days  | about GNU/Linux."

"RonB" <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iiid4j$h9u$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:42:18 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>

>>>>>
>>>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>>>>
>>>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
>>>>
>>>> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
>>>> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against
>>>> them in the future should it ever be revealed.
>>>
>>> And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?
>>
>> He's said this on at least two occasions.  Feel free to show *ANY*
>> evidence that he's lying.
>
> Nothing to do with my point. Often people flatly deny the truth when they
> lie. You're argument here was very weak.

That's some seriously backward thinking.

Okay -  so some people sometimes tell lies. And because of this you're 
concluding that Michael Dell is lying?  Talk about a weak argument.

If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that he's 
lying.  Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" 
doesn't prove anything.








 

Homer stated in post n0dv18-kf9.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/5/11 1:06 AM:

> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iihpjq$t1n$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 2/4/2011 3:57 PM, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ***** One company has not played a role in Dell's Linux decisions.
>>>>> "Microsoft has not talked to us about Linux. If they did, I
>>>>> wouldn't care.
>>>>> It's none of their business," concluded Dell. *****
>>>>> </quote>
>>>>> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
>>>> 
>>>> Those last 3 sentences negate every idiotic lie cola losers have
>>>> ever drooled about Microsoft controlling OEMs.
>> 
>> Logically, it negates only statements concerning Dell.
> 
> Not even that, since Michael Dell was caught red-handed lying about
> his criminal "deal" with Intel, then prosecuted for it by the SEC, so
> what's to stop him lying about "deals" with Microsoft?

But, to be clear, you have no evidence he is lying.  You are *hoping* he is
to support your bias.  Oh well.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 10:05:56 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:

> "RonB" <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:iiid4j$h9u$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:42:18 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>
> 
>>>>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
>>>>>
>>>>> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
>>>>> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against
>>>>> them in the future should it ever be revealed.
>>>>
>>>> And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?
>>>
>>> He's said this on at least two occasions.  Feel free to show *ANY*
>>> evidence that he's lying.
>>
>> Nothing to do with my point. Often people flatly deny the truth when
>> they lie. You're argument here was very weak.
> 
> That's some seriously backward thinking.
> 
> Okay -  so some people sometimes tell lies. And because of this you're
> concluding that Michael Dell is lying?  Talk about a weak argument.

Well, if that was the argument I was making, yeah, it would have been 
weak. Of course it wasn't -- I merely made the point that liars often 
flatly deny the truth. Nothing particularly controversial about that, but 
you seemed to latch on to it with Snit-like tenacity. Your argument that a 
liar wouldn't flatly deny the truth is the weak one.
 
> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
> he's lying.  Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell
> lies" doesn't prove anything.

I'm not claiming Dell is lying. I'm just making the point that, just 
because he flatly denied the accusation, proves absolutely nothing about 
it. Liars *often* flatly deny the truth. 

Now feel free to try to twist my words some more. Do you and Snit go to 
the same crank school?

-- 
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581 
CentOS 5.5 or VectorLinux Deluxe 6.0

RonB stated in post iikba3$61c$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/5/11 1:18
PM:

....
>>> Nothing to do with my point. Often people flatly deny the truth when
>>> they lie. You're argument here was very weak.
>> 
>> That's some seriously backward thinking.
>> 
>> Okay -  so some people sometimes tell lies. And because of this you're
>> concluding that Michael Dell is lying?  Talk about a weak argument.
> 
> Well, if that was the argument I was making, yeah, it would have been
> weak. Of course it wasn't -- I merely made the point that liars often
> flatly deny the truth. Nothing particularly controversial about that, but
> you seemed to latch on to it with Snit-like tenacity. Your argument that a
> liar wouldn't flatly deny the truth is the weak one.

Are you assuming Michael Dell is lying about this?  If so, do you have
evidence that he is lying *about this*?  I suspect not.

>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>> he's lying.  Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell
>> lies" doesn't prove anything.
> 
> I'm not claiming Dell is lying. I'm just making the point that, just
> because he flatly denied the accusation, proves absolutely nothing about
> it. Liars *often* flatly deny the truth.

Gee, there is no reason to think the facts are contrary to what he has said.

> Now feel free to try to twist my words some more. Do you and Snit go to
> the same crank school?

Why do you obsess over me so much?  Still pissed about your losing of some
Usenet debates is my guess.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

>
>
>"RonB"  wrote in message news:iikba3$61c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 10:05:56 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "RonB" <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:iiid4j$h9u$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:42:18 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>>   Do you seriously expect Dell to cop to something like that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it were true then I would expect a non-answer from Dell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He would not have flatly denied any interference or pressure from
>>>>>> Microsoft in no uncertain term in a way that could be used against
>>>>>> them in the future should it ever be revealed.
>>>>>
>>>>> And no liar has ever flatly denied the truth?
>>>>
>>>> He's said this on at least two occasions.  Feel free to show *ANY*
>>>> evidence that he's lying.
>>>
>>> Nothing to do with my point. Often people flatly deny the truth when
>>> they lie. You're argument here was very weak.
>>
>> That's some seriously backward thinking.
>>
>> Okay -  so some people sometimes tell lies. And because of this you're
>> concluding that Michael Dell is lying?  Talk about a weak argument.
>
>Well, if that was the argument I was making, yeah, it would have been
>weak. Of course it wasn't -- I merely made the point that liars often
>flatly deny the truth. Nothing particularly controversial about that, but
>you seemed to latch on to it with Snit-like tenacity. Your argument that a
>liar wouldn't flatly deny the truth is the weak one.
>
>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>> he's lying.  Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell
>> lies" doesn't prove anything.
>
>I'm not claiming Dell is lying. I'm just making the point that, just
>because he flatly denied the accusation, proves absolutely nothing about
>it. Liars *often* flatly deny the truth.
>
>Now feel free to try to twist my words some more. Do you and Snit go to
>the same crank school?

I'm not trying to twist words but your point completely eludes me.

Are you trying to say that because sometimes people lie - that we shouldn't 
believe what Michael Dell (or anyone else) says because "sometimes people 
lie."

I'm not naïve enough to believe everything I hear but I'm not 
skeptical/paranoid enough to think that everything said is a lie either. 
Flatly denying something doesn't guarantee it's the truth but I'm certainly 
not going to assume it's a lie for no good reason.

Ezekiel stated in post iikd0r$ctl$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/5/11
1:47 PM:

>> Well, if that was the argument I was making, yeah, it would have been
>> weak. Of course it wasn't -- I merely made the point that liars often
>> flatly deny the truth. Nothing particularly controversial about that, but
>> you seemed to latch on to it with Snit-like tenacity. Your argument that a
>> liar wouldn't flatly deny the truth is the weak one.
>> 
>>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>>> he's lying.  Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell
>>> lies" doesn't prove anything.
>> 
>> I'm not claiming Dell is lying. I'm just making the point that, just
>> because he flatly denied the accusation, proves absolutely nothing about
>> it. Liars *often* flatly deny the truth.
>> 
>> Now feel free to try to twist my words some more. Do you and Snit go to
>> the same crank school?
> 
> I'm not trying to twist words but your point completely eludes me.
> 
> Are you trying to say that because sometimes people lie - that we shouldn't
> believe what Michael Dell (or anyone else) says because "sometimes people
> lie."
> 
> I'm not na�ve enough to believe everything I hear but I'm not
> skeptical/paranoid enough to think that everything said is a lie either.
> Flatly denying something doesn't guarantee it's the truth but I'm certainly
> not going to assume it's a lie for no good reason.

I think the idea is people have accused Dell of lying in the past and he
might even have been caught in lies, so there is no reason to believe his
comments here are true... and thus the assumption should be they have no
value.  Coming to this conclusion supports the paranoid need to think that
somehow there is a huge conspiracy holding desktop Linux back and allows the
"advocates" to avoid looking at the intrinsic problems with desktop Linux
that need to be addressed if it is to gain substantial market share / user
base.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:47:21 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:

> I'm not trying to twist words but your point completely eludes me.
> 
> Are you trying to say that because sometimes people lie - that we
> shouldn't believe what Michael Dell (or anyone else) says because
> "sometimes people lie."
> 
> I'm not naïve enough to believe everything I hear but I'm not
> skeptical/paranoid enough to think that everything said is a lie either.
> Flatly denying something doesn't guarantee it's the truth but I'm
> certainly not going to assume it's a lie for no good reason.

My main point about Dell and Microsoft is basically neutral. I don't know 
if Dell lied or not. I can look at Microsoft's passed behavior and Dell's 
share of the PC market and surmise that there has been "pressure" put on 
Dell in the past. But I don't know any of that for sure.

But you seemed to think it was a convincing argument that Dell "flatly 
denied" that pressure was put on him to promote Microsoft products. My 
only point was that liars *often* "flatly" deny the truth. The act of 
"flatly denying" means nothing one way or the other. 

I can't get much clearer on this subject. You may now have the last word.

-- 
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581 
CentOS 5.5 or VectorLinux Deluxe 6.0

>
>
>"RonB"  wrote in message news:iikep0$61c$6@news.eternal-september.org... 
>
>
>But you seemed to think it was a convincing argument that Dell "flatly 
>denied" that pressure was put on him to promote Microsoft products. My 
>only point was that liars *often* "flatly" deny the truth. The act of 
>"flatly denying" means nothing one way or the other. 
>
>I can't get much clearer on this subject. You may now have the last word.


Word!

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:47:26 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> 
> So you want us to believe, on the basis of an interview by a CEO on the
> hot seat, that Microsoft was somehow squeamish when it came to putting
> pressure on DELL?
> 

You can believe whatever you want dude, including your wild conspiracy 
theories.

BTW, it is Linux on the machine so stay on topic, preferably with facts 
relevant to modern history.

>
> There's a reason Microsoft is in litigation so much, and it is not just
> others picking on poor little Microsoft.
>

Oh my, someone sued the rich kid on the block, what a shock I tell you...

> 
> Pull my finger, dude.
>

Nope. You pull your own head from down there.

stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> You can believe whatever you want dude, including your wild conspiracy 
> theories.

Oh yeah, they're really *wild*.  <eyes roll>

-- 
"Ever free-climbed a thousand foot vertical cliff with 60 pounds of gear
strapped to your butt?"
   "No."
"'Course you haven't, you fruit-loop little geek."
-- The Mountain Man, one of Dana Carvey's SNL characters
[ditto]

Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> writes:

> stukie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> You can believe whatever you want dude, including your wild conspiracy 
>> theories.
>
> Oh yeah, they're really *wild*.  <eyes roll>

You havent offered one iota of evidence for your rabid anti MS claims.

Snipping your weaselly attempts to show off doesn't help our cause.

Verily I say unto thee, that EZKill spake thusly:
 
> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
> he's lying.

I can show you evidence that he's a /liar/:

[quote]
The SEC alleges that Dell did not disclose to investors large
exclusivity payments the company received from Intel Corporation to not
use central processing units (CPUs) manufactured by Intel's main rival.
It was these payments rather than the company's management and
operations that allowed Dell to meet its earnings targets. After Intel
cut these payments, Dell again misled investors by not disclosing the
true reason behind the company's decreased profitability.

The SEC charged Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, former CEO Kevin
Rollins, and former CFO James Schneider for their roles in the
disclosure violations. The SEC charged Schneider, former regional Vice
President of Finance Nicholas Dunning, and former Assistant Controller
Leslie Jackson for their roles in the improper accounting.
[/quote]

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/07/the-dell-tale-starts-to-unravel-and-its-a-bombshell.html

The timeframe for this fraud was 2002 - 2006, during which time Michael
Dell lied to his shareholders, his customers, and the SEC.

The date of the "It's none of [Microsoft's] business" article is March
07, 2006, at the hight of Dell's fraud and lies.

> Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" doesn't
> prove anything.

No, but an SEC prosecution does.

-- 
K.                           | Ancient Chinese Proverb:
http://slated.org            | "The road to Hell is paved with
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky   | ignorant twits who know nothing
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 44 days  | about GNU/Linux."

Homer stated in post i2i328-kgl.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/6/11 2:57 PM:

> Verily I say unto thee, that EZKill spake thusly:
>  
>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>> he's lying.
> 
> I can show you evidence that he's a /liar/:
> 
> [quote]
> The SEC alleges that Dell did not disclose to investors large
> exclusivity payments the company received from Intel Corporation to not
> use central processing units (CPUs) manufactured by Intel's main rival.
> It was these payments rather than the company's management and
> operations that allowed Dell to meet its earnings targets. After Intel
> cut these payments, Dell again misled investors by not disclosing the
> true reason behind the company's decreased profitability.
> 
> The SEC charged Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, former CEO Kevin
> Rollins, and former CFO James Schneider for their roles in the
> disclosure violations. The SEC charged Schneider, former regional Vice
> President of Finance Nicholas Dunning, and former Assistant Controller
> Leslie Jackson for their roles in the improper accounting.
> [/quote]
> 
> http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/07/the-dell-tale-starts-to-un
> ravel-and-its-a-bombshell.html
> 
> The timeframe for this fraud was 2002 - 2006, during which time Michael
> Dell lied to his shareholders, his customers, and the SEC.
> 
> The date of the "It's none of [Microsoft's] business" article is March
> 07, 2006, at the hight of Dell's fraud and lies.
> 
>> Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" doesn't
>> prove anything.
> 
> No, but an SEC prosecution does.

By your standard, since we can be quite sure all of the "advocates" have
been caught in at least one lie at one time or another, then everything they
say is a lie.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message 
news:C9748FBF.8D2D9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com...
> Homer stated in post i2i328-kgl.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/6/11 2:57 PM:
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that EZKill spake thusly:
>>
>>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>>> he's lying.
>>
>> I can show you evidence that he's a /liar/:
>>
>> [quote]
>> The SEC alleges that Dell did not disclose to investors large
>> exclusivity payments the company received from Intel Corporation to not
>> use central processing units (CPUs) manufactured by Intel's main rival.
>> It was these payments rather than the company's management and
>> operations that allowed Dell to meet its earnings targets. After Intel
>> cut these payments, Dell again misled investors by not disclosing the
>> true reason behind the company's decreased profitability.
>>
>> The SEC charged Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, former CEO Kevin
>> Rollins, and former CFO James Schneider for their roles in the
>> disclosure violations. The SEC charged Schneider, former regional Vice
>> President of Finance Nicholas Dunning, and former Assistant Controller
>> Leslie Jackson for their roles in the improper accounting.
>> [/quote]
>>
>> http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/07/the-dell-tale-starts-to-un
>> ravel-and-its-a-bombshell.html
>>
>> The timeframe for this fraud was 2002 - 2006, during which time Michael
>> Dell lied to his shareholders, his customers, and the SEC.
>>
>> The date of the "It's none of [Microsoft's] business" article is March
>> 07, 2006, at the hight of Dell's fraud and lies.
>>
>>> Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" doesn't
>>> prove anything.
>>
>> No, but an SEC prosecution does.

Excellent. And since the SEC conducted an investigation of Dell's business 
practices I'm sure we can see exactly where they found any wrong doing with 
how Dell conducts business with Microsoft.

> By your standard, since we can be quite sure all of the "advocates" have
> been caught in at least one lie at one time or another, then everything 
> they
> say is a lie.

Ezekiel stated in post iip2u8$rg5$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/7/11
8:25 AM:

> 
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
> news:C9748FBF.8D2D9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com...
>> Homer stated in post i2i328-kgl.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/6/11 2:57 PM:
>> 
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that EZKill spake thusly:
>>> 
>>>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>>>> he's lying.
>>> 
>>> I can show you evidence that he's a /liar/:
>>> 
>>> [quote]
>>> The SEC alleges that Dell did not disclose to investors large
>>> exclusivity payments the company received from Intel Corporation to not
>>> use central processing units (CPUs) manufactured by Intel's main rival.
>>> It was these payments rather than the company's management and
>>> operations that allowed Dell to meet its earnings targets. After Intel
>>> cut these payments, Dell again misled investors by not disclosing the
>>> true reason behind the company's decreased profitability.
>>> 
>>> The SEC charged Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, former CEO Kevin
>>> Rollins, and former CFO James Schneider for their roles in the
>>> disclosure violations. The SEC charged Schneider, former regional Vice
>>> President of Finance Nicholas Dunning, and former Assistant Controller
>>> Leslie Jackson for their roles in the improper accounting.
>>> [/quote]
>>> 
>>> http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/07/the-dell-tale-starts-to-
>>> un
>>> ravel-and-its-a-bombshell.html
>>> 
>>> The timeframe for this fraud was 2002 - 2006, during which time Michael
>>> Dell lied to his shareholders, his customers, and the SEC.
>>> 
>>> The date of the "It's none of [Microsoft's] business" article is March
>>> 07, 2006, at the hight of Dell's fraud and lies.
>>> 
>>>> Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" doesn't
>>>> prove anything.
>>> 
>>> No, but an SEC prosecution does.
> 
> Excellent. And since the SEC conducted an investigation of Dell's business
> practices I'm sure we can see exactly where they found any wrong doing with
> how Dell conducts business with Microsoft.

Homer is paranoid and somewhat delusional.  He cannot accept that Dell, HP
and others do not sell many Linux desktops / notebooks because of business
reasons (they do not sell, they cost the companies more money when you
include support, etc.) and has convinced himself there must be a world-wide
conspiracy against Linux.

This is a common theme among the Linux "advocates" - the intrinsic
weaknesses of Linux are inconsequential and the problem is with the rest of
the world.

Reminds me of a quote from Star Trek the Next Generation: "If there is
nothing wrong with me, there must be something wrong with the universe."
They are convinced there is nothing wrong with Linux, so it must be a
problem with the universe that everyone is not adopting it.

They also often show they think they are entitled to special treatment -
Dell and HP owe it to the Linux community to give them chance after chance
after chance, even if it does not fit into their business model or business
plans.  The world owes them, in their minds.



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

"Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message 
news:C97561FF.8D335%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com...
> Ezekiel stated in post iip2u8$rg5$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/7/11
> 8:25 AM:
>
>>
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>> news:C9748FBF.8D2D9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com...
>>> Homer stated in post i2i328-kgl.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/6/11 2:57 PM:
>>>
>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that EZKill spake thusly:
>>>>
>>>>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>>>>> he's lying.
>>>>
>>>> I can show you evidence that he's a /liar/:
>>>>
>>>> [quote]
>>>> The SEC alleges that Dell did not disclose to investors large
>>>> exclusivity payments the company received from Intel Corporation to not
>>>> use central processing units (CPUs) manufactured by Intel's main rival.
>>>> It was these payments rather than the company's management and
>>>> operations that allowed Dell to meet its earnings targets. After Intel
>>>> cut these payments, Dell again misled investors by not disclosing the
>>>> true reason behind the company's decreased profitability.
>>>>
>>>> The SEC charged Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, former CEO Kevin
>>>> Rollins, and former CFO James Schneider for their roles in the
>>>> disclosure violations. The SEC charged Schneider, former regional Vice
>>>> President of Finance Nicholas Dunning, and former Assistant Controller
>>>> Leslie Jackson for their roles in the improper accounting.
>>>> [/quote]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/07/the-dell-tale-starts-to-
>>>> un
>>>> ravel-and-its-a-bombshell.html
>>>>
>>>> The timeframe for this fraud was 2002 - 2006, during which time Michael
>>>> Dell lied to his shareholders, his customers, and the SEC.
>>>>
>>>> The date of the "It's none of [Microsoft's] business" article is March
>>>> 07, 2006, at the hight of Dell's fraud and lies.
>>>>
>>>>> Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" doesn't
>>>>> prove anything.
>>>>
>>>> No, but an SEC prosecution does.
>>
>> Excellent. And since the SEC conducted an investigation of Dell's 
>> business
>> practices I'm sure we can see exactly where they found any wrong doing 
>> with
>> how Dell conducts business with Microsoft.
>
> Homer is paranoid and somewhat delusional.  He cannot accept that Dell, HP
> and others do not sell many Linux desktops / notebooks because of business
> reasons (they do not sell, they cost the companies more money when you
> include support, etc.) and has convinced himself there must be a 
> world-wide
> conspiracy against Linux.
>
> This is a common theme among the Linux "advocates" - the intrinsic
> weaknesses of Linux are inconsequential and the problem is with the rest 
> of
> the world.
>
> Reminds me of a quote from Star Trek the Next Generation: "If there is
> nothing wrong with me, there must be something wrong with the universe."
> They are convinced there is nothing wrong with Linux, so it must be a
> problem with the universe that everyone is not adopting it.
>
> They also often show they think they are entitled to special treatment -
> Dell and HP owe it to the Linux community to give them chance after chance
> after chance, even if it does not fit into their business model or 
> business
> plans.  The world owes them, in their minds.
>

From the interview with Michael Dell:

<quote>
In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
</quote>

Ezekiel stated in post iip4td$hfu$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/7/11
8:59 AM:

> 
> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
> news:C97561FF.8D335%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com...
>> Ezekiel stated in post iip2u8$rg5$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/7/11
>> 8:25 AM:
>> 
>>> 
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>> news:C9748FBF.8D2D9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com...
>>>> Homer stated in post i2i328-kgl.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/6/11 2:57 PM:
>>>> 
>>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that EZKill spake thusly:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you want to claim that Dell is lying then show some evidence that
>>>>>> he's lying.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can show you evidence that he's a /liar/:
>>>>> 
>>>>> [quote]
>>>>> The SEC alleges that Dell did not disclose to investors large
>>>>> exclusivity payments the company received from Intel Corporation to not
>>>>> use central processing units (CPUs) manufactured by Intel's main rival.
>>>>> It was these payments rather than the company's management and
>>>>> operations that allowed Dell to meet its earnings targets. After Intel
>>>>> cut these payments, Dell again misled investors by not disclosing the
>>>>> true reason behind the company's decreased profitability.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The SEC charged Dell Chairman and CEO Michael Dell, former CEO Kevin
>>>>> Rollins, and former CFO James Schneider for their roles in the
>>>>> disclosure violations. The SEC charged Schneider, former regional Vice
>>>>> President of Finance Nicholas Dunning, and former Assistant Controller
>>>>> Leslie Jackson for their roles in the improper accounting.
>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/07/the-dell-tale-starts-t
>>>>> o-
>>>>> un
>>>>> ravel-and-its-a-bombshell.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> The timeframe for this fraud was 2002 - 2006, during which time Michael
>>>>> Dell lied to his shareholders, his customers, and the SEC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The date of the "It's none of [Microsoft's] business" article is March
>>>>> 07, 2006, at the hight of Dell's fraud and lies.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some generic hand-waving of "well sometimes people tell lies" doesn't
>>>>>> prove anything.
>>>>> 
>>>>> No, but an SEC prosecution does.
>>> 
>>> Excellent. And since the SEC conducted an investigation of Dell's
>>> business
>>> practices I'm sure we can see exactly where they found any wrong doing
>>> with
>>> how Dell conducts business with Microsoft.
>> 
>> Homer is paranoid and somewhat delusional.  He cannot accept that Dell, HP
>> and others do not sell many Linux desktops / notebooks because of business
>> reasons (they do not sell, they cost the companies more money when you
>> include support, etc.) and has convinced himself there must be a
>> world-wide
>> conspiracy against Linux.
>> 
>> This is a common theme among the Linux "advocates" - the intrinsic
>> weaknesses of Linux are inconsequential and the problem is with the rest
>> of
>> the world.
>> 
>> Reminds me of a quote from Star Trek the Next Generation: "If there is
>> nothing wrong with me, there must be something wrong with the universe."
>> They are convinced there is nothing wrong with Linux, so it must be a
>> problem with the universe that everyone is not adopting it.
>> 
>> They also often show they think they are entitled to special treatment -
>> Dell and HP owe it to the Linux community to give them chance after chance
>> after chance, even if it does not fit into their business model or
>> business
>> plans.  The world owes them, in their minds.
>> 
> 
> From the interview with Michael Dell:
> 
> <quote>
> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
> </quote>
> 
> 
> 
Nooooo!  It is a vast world-wide conspiracy!


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message 
>
>> <snidiocy snipped>
>
> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>
> <quote>
> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
> </quote>

Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?

And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?

Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?

-- 
I think, therefore I am... I think.

Chris Ahlstrom stated in post iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org on
2/7/11 9:48 AM:

> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>> 
>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>> 
>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>> 
>> <quote>
>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>> </quote>
> 
> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
> 
> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
> 
> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?

Why not?  If Ubuntu is not serving them and their customers as well as
Ubuntu, they have *no* obligation to the Linux community.  None.

The world does not owe you nor the Linux community.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

"Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
news:iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>
>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>
>> <quote>
>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>> </quote>
>
> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>
> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>
> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?


Even though it's just a web-page or a web-site things like adds and 
web-space aren't an unlimited resource. The best analogy is a television 
commercial or an add in print media. There's only so much space and time in 
which to "sell" to the user. Adds that focus on what the user is likely to 
be interested in are more effective than adds that try and list everything 
and anything.

Shelf space at a retailer (Walmart, Bestbuy, etc) is the same thing. To the 
casual consumer shelf-space looks like an unlimited resource so hey... 'Why 
can't Walmart carry product <XYZ> that I like?'  It's because if product XYZ 
doesn't have sufficient sales volume then it's taking sales away from 
another product that they could keep on the shelf.

Dell has tried desktop Linux. The Mini-9 netbook I bought came with Ubunutu. 
But if the sales just aren't there then Dell could be using that 
'advertising space' to promote products that sell better.

Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> writes:

> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message 
>>
>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>
>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>
>> <quote>
>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>> </quote>
>
> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>
> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>
> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?

Serious question Ahlstrom : are you retarded (as in low IQ) or merely
trolling?

Its not foremost because it doesn't sell.

How many DELL Linux PCs did YOU and YOUR firm buy?

Answer : none.

I err to you trolling. You can not be so forgetful and plain stupid as
you make out.

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> Chris Ahlstrom stated in post iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org on
> 2/7/11 9:48 AM:
>
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>> 
>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>> 
>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>> </quote>
>> 
>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>> 
>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>> 
>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
>
> Why not?  If Ubuntu is not serving them and their customers as well as
> Ubuntu, they have *no* obligation to the Linux community.  None.
>
> The world does not owe you nor the Linux community.


Neither does Chris. He makes his money from MS Windows based application
SW development. Proprietary SW development I might add. His sole
contribution to Linux appears to be telling lies here about people who
want to discuss the limitations (as well as the strengths) of desktop
Linux and help to make it a better place for all.

Ezekiel stated in post iip8ac$qhr$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/7/11
9:57 AM:

> 
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message
> news:iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>> 
>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>> 
>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>> </quote>
>> 
>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>> 
>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>> 
>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
> 
> 
> Even though it's just a web-page or a web-site things like adds and
> web-space aren't an unlimited resource. The best analogy is a television
> commercial or an add in print media. There's only so much space and time in
> which to "sell" to the user. Adds that focus on what the user is likely to
> be interested in are more effective than adds that try and list everything
> and anything.
> 
> Shelf space at a retailer (Walmart, Bestbuy, etc) is the same thing. To the
> casual consumer shelf-space looks like an unlimited resource so hey... 'Why
> can't Walmart carry product <XYZ> that I like?'  It's because if product XYZ
> doesn't have sufficient sales volume then it's taking sales away from
> another product that they could keep on the shelf.
> 
> Dell has tried desktop Linux. The Mini-9 netbook I bought came with Ubunutu.
> But if the sales just aren't there then Dell could be using that
> 'advertising space' to promote products that sell better.

For that matter, if Linux sales - when pushed - lead people to buy Linux,
and many of these people are not happy with it or need more tech support,
then Dell likely *loses* money on these people, at least compared to Windows
sales.  Why do the "advocates" really think Dell should lose money just to
support Ubuntu?  Why do they think the world owes them?

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On 2011-02-07, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote:
> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message 
>>
>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>
>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>
>> <quote>
>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>> </quote>
>
> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>
> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>
> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?

    Why do they only offer a few lower end models of desktop gear when
others have absolutely no problem with being used with something like
Ubuntu? Being impressed by Ubuntu's handling of random laptops is what
prompted me to install it on my own machines.

    The customers are simply being driven elsewhere.

-- 
    It's not the size of the CPU, it's how you use it.               |||
								    / | \

On 2011-02-07, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> writes:
>
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message 
>>>
>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>>
>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If 
>>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>> </quote>
>>
>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>>
>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>>
>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
>
> Serious question Ahlstrom : are you retarded (as in low IQ) or merely
> trolling?
>
> Its not foremost because it doesn't sell.
>
> How many DELL Linux PCs did YOU and YOUR firm buy?

   How many were suitable?

   This isn't just about making purely political buying decisions, this is
also about buying what you actually need. For this sort of thing, actual
Linux vendors are lightyears ahead of the big Windows OEMs.

[deletia]

-- 
    It's not the size of the CPU, it's how you use it.               |||
								    / | \

On 2011-02-07, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
> news:iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>>
>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>> </quote>
>>
>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>>
>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>>
>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
>
>
> Even though it's just a web-page or a web-site things like adds and 
> web-space aren't an unlimited resource. The best analogy is a television 

    ...yeah. Whatever.

[deletia]

-- 
    It's not the size of the CPU, it's how you use it.               |||
								    / | \

Hadron wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Serious question Ahlstrom ...

Sorry, man, I don't take you seriously.

At best, you're deliberate obtuse.

JEDIDIAH stated in post slrnil0kml.3vh.jedi@nomad.mishnet on 2/7/11 1:15 PM:

> On 2011-02-07, Hadron <hadronquark@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>> 
>>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>>> 
>>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>>> 
>>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>>> 
>>>> <quote>
>>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>>>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>>> </quote>
>>> 
>>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>>> 
>>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>>> 
>>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
>> 
>> Serious question Ahlstrom : are you retarded (as in low IQ) or merely
>> trolling?
>> 
>> Its not foremost because it doesn't sell.
>> 
>> How many DELL Linux PCs did YOU and YOUR firm buy?
> 
>    How many were suitable?
> 
>    This isn't just about making purely political buying decisions, this is
> also about buying what you actually need. For this sort of thing, actual
> Linux vendors are lightyears ahead of the big Windows OEMs.

Which venders?  I would love to see what they offer.

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

JEDIDIAH stated in post slrnil0kjs.3vh.jedi@nomad.mishnet on 2/7/11 1:13 PM:

> On 2011-02-07, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote:
>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>> 
>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>> 
>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>> 
>>> <quote>
>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven activity. If
>>> customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>> </quote>
>> 
>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
>> 
>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
>> 
>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
> 
>     Why do they only offer a few lower end models of desktop gear when
> others have absolutely no problem with being used with something like
> Ubuntu? Being impressed by Ubuntu's handling of random laptops is what
> prompted me to install it on my own machines.
> 
>     The customers are simply being driven elsewhere.

Ah, yes, Dell is purposely losing business to support the anti-Linux
conspiracy.

That makes a lot of sense. To someone.  :)


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Chris Ahlstrom stated in post iipnk7$aa7$3@news.eternal-september.org on
2/7/11 2:20 PM:

> Hadron wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> Serious question Ahlstrom ...
> 
> Sorry, man, I don't take you seriously.
> 
> At best, you're deliberate obtuse.
> 

All you can do is run.  You show you should not be taken seriously.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
> On 2011-02-07, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message 
>> news:iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>>>
>>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven
>>>> activity. If customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>>> </quote>
>>>
>>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?

[see below]

>>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?

http://techrights.org/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/

>>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/358714/so-dell-is-ubuntu-safer-than-windows-or-not

>> Even though it's just a web-page or a web-site things like adds and
>> web-space aren't an unlimited resource. The best analogy is a
>> television 
>
>     ...yeah. Whatever.

What sort of business doesn't promote new stock?

Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
/hides/ them so they can't be found.

What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
so it won't sell?

The stench of corruption is overpowering.

It's ridiculous to then claim those products don't sell because there's
"no demand", if the company stocking them never even made customers
aware they ever had those products in the first place.

Dell couldn't make it more obvious its been pressured by Microsoft to
hide those systems, if it had a "Dell is a proud victim of Microsoft's
racketeering operation" sign in neon lights, hanging outside it's door.

And this has been going on for /years/. Here's another example:

[quote]
Dell this week received much praise for releasing a new version of its
"open source" PC. The computer fits into Dell's n Series range of
Windows-less systems. These ship with a copy of FreeDOS in the packaging
material - but not installed on the PC - which is apparently a bizarre
concession to Microsoft. While Dell garners glowing reviews for shipping
such an open source OS-friendly product, the company's new E510n
actually stands as yet another example of how hard Dell tries not to
sell non-Microsoft gear.

If Dell has an official press release touting the E510n, we sure can't
find it. In addition, the company doesn't present the n Series systems
to customers looking for desktops on a standard shopping page. Instead,
you'll have to go ahead and search for "n Series" on Dell's web site to
find the gear. But even then you've only just started your journey.

Regular Joes searching for the non-Microsoft kit will end up here. At
the time of writing, you'd see an orange "New" sticker around the
Dimension 5150n. That PC is certainly similar to the E510n Dell
described to the press, but it's not the same box. The E510n is nowhere
to be found.

....

[page 2]

As it turns out, Dell's sales staffers have a secret web page for the
product that you can't find with normal search tactics.
[/quote]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/06/dell_open_pc/

And that wasn't even a Linux box, it was just a "Naked PC", so anyone
claiming this eternal problem is due to "no demand" for Linux is talking
horse shit.

Given the documented court evidence of Microsoft's racketeering with
OEMs, in which Dell is mentioned specifically several times, and the
bribery Dell accepted from Intel from 2002 - 2007, I think it's pretty
clear what's going on. Well, clear to anyone who isn't a blatant
denialist, that is.

-- 
K.                           | Ancient Chinese Proverb:
http://slated.org            | "The road to Hell is paved with
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky   | ignorant twits who know nothing
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 45 days  | about GNU/Linux."

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:10:33 +0000, Homer wrote:


> What sort of business doesn't promote new stock?

Linux.....
After 20 years of squawking you Linux loons still can't give away your
miserable DESKTOP operating system.

Maybe you kooks should shut up. because your "promotion" ain't working.

On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:

> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>
> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
> so it won't sell?

www.dell.com/linux





> The stench of corruption is overpowering.

As Dell found out, the stench of Linux on their desktop machines was 
overpowering.

flatfish+++ wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> 

Same old same old from this long-time troll.

It needs to get over itself.

On 2011-02-08, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 03:10:33 +0000, Homer wrote:
>
>
>> What sort of business doesn't promote new stock?
>
> Linux.....
> After 20 years of squawking you Linux loons still can't give away your
> miserable DESKTOP operating system.
>
> Maybe you kooks should shut up. because your "promotion" ain't working.

    You can't sell the masses on something if they have no where to buy it.

    They aren't going to buy from some company they've never heard of.

    It's a nice Catch-22. Computers aren't commodity items. They have a lot
of "baggage" to deal with. Plus they have people like you whining that people
can't live without nonsense like msoffice.

    The fear mongering even impairs the likes of Macintosh.

    That's why Apple went mobile and is more of a consumer electronics company
now rather than a computer company. Apparently they realized the problems of
breaking into that monopoly even with a vastly superior product.

    Your kind has been screeching about "marketshare" since the beginning
and it's ultimately irrelevant because it doesn't stop anything. Linux
continues. It's better to avoid tripe if you have enough taste to realize
what garbage most people are consuming.

    Fortunately, Free Software doesn't have to worry about the constraints
that undermine most alternatives.

-- 
                                    My macintosh runs Ubuntu.        |||
                                                                    / | \

Homer stated in post 9qo628-o7n.ln1@sky.matrix on 2/7/11 8:10 PM:

> Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
>> On 2011-02-07, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>> "Chris Ahlstrom" <ahlstromc@xzoozy.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iip7m7$ghd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Ezekiel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>> 
>>>>> "Snit" <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
>>>>> 
>>>>>> <snidiocy snipped>
>>>>> 
>>>>> From the interview with Michael Dell:
>>>>> 
>>>>> <quote>
>>>>> In the end, "we see [the Linux desktop] as a customer-driven
>>>>> activity. If customers want it, well, Dell will give it to them."
>>>>> </quote>
>>>> 
>>>> Then why do they make it so difficult to find on their web site?
> 
> [see below]
> 
>>>> And why do they post "DELL Recommends Windows 7"?
> 
> http://techrights.org/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/
> 
>>>> Why did DELL tone down its ad text about the superiority of Ubuntu?
> 
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/358714/so-dell-is-ubuntu-safer-than-windo
> ws-or-not
> 
>>> Even though it's just a web-page or a web-site things like adds and
>>> web-space aren't an unlimited resource. The best analogy is a
>>> television 
>> 
>>     ...yeah. Whatever.
> 
> What sort of business doesn't promote new stock?

What general interest business promotes some niche product that less than 1%
of its customers are even likely to consider... and a much higher percentage
will just be confused by?

> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
> /hides/ them so they can't be found.

http://dell.com/linux
http://linux.dell.com/

They do a really, really bad job if hiding them!  And, heck, with just a
little looking:

<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/business~solutions~operating-sys
tems~en/Documents~oracle-unix-to-linux-migration.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/business~solutions~operating-sys
tems~en/Documents~red-hat-enterprise-linux-55-datasheet.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/business~solutions~whitepapers~e
n/Documents~oracle-unix2linux-migration.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/large-business/cut-costs-using-l
inux-offices.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/large-business/sampling-linux-on
-windows-7.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/large-business/windows-and-linux
-co-exist.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/operating-systems/linux-oracle.a
spx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/solutions/openmanage-linux-repos
itory.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/solutions/oracle-configs-ent-lin
ux-5.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/vsl/inside-track-20101217-double
take.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-benefits-of-linux-on-dell.as
px>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-components.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-dell-and-partners.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-dell-performance.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-deploying-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-implementing-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-software.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-the-value-of-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-what-is-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux.aspx?cs=555>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/viewall/linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/d/business~solutions~operating-systems~en
/Documents~linux-journal-readrs-choice-09.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/d/business~solutions~operating-systems~en
/Documents~migrating-%20linux-sun-to-dell.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/linux-deploying-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/linux.aspx>
<http://linux.dell.com/>
<http://linux.dell.com/biosdevname/>
<http://linux.dell.com/biosdisk/>
<http://linux.dell.com/devlabel/>
<http://linux.dell.com/devlabel/devlabel.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/dkms/>
<http://linux.dell.com/dkms/dkms-ols2004.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/dru/>
<http://linux.dell.com/dvdstore/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/cto/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/cto/README-June8.txt>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/name_eths/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/openipmi/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/openmanage-contributions/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/LinuxCon_2010/linuxcon2010_domsch
..pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_2009/Simplifying_L
inux_iSCSI_management_with_iSNS-v0.7.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_May_2006/Driver_Up
date_Model.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_May_2006/ipmi_pres
entation-redhat_summit.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_May_2007/rhsummit2
007.odp>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/revisor/dell-omsa52.cfg>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/tools/dump_pirq>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/nic-enum-whitepaper-v1.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/nic-enum-whitepaper-v3.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/nic-enum-whitepaper.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/PXE_UEFI_Dell_SLES11_20oct2010.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/git/>
<http://linux.dell.com/git/?p=dkms.git>
<http://linux.dell.com/git/?p=ubuntu-fid.git;a=summary>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/bios_hdr.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/compilation_linux.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/dell_drivers.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/index.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/firmware/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/firmware/bios-hdrs/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/2008_Q3/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/latest/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/OMSA_6.0.1/>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/GRUB_error_17_after_kernel_update>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Moblin>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Oss/Firmware_Tools>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Oss/libnetdevname>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Products/Consumer>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Products/HA/DellRedHatHALinuxCluster/O
verview>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Products/PowerEdge>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/firmware>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/hardware>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/software>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Audio>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/libsmbios_dellBiosUpdate>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Modems>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Video/Intel>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Video/nVidia>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/Audio_not_working_p
roperly>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/Bluetooth_Keyboard_
and_Mouse_do_not_work_across_reboots>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/USB-SATA_race_condi
tion_causes_hang>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.10>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.10/Issues/8400M_Suspend_Hiber
nate-Failure>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.10/Issues/New_Conexant_Modem_
Driver>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Wiki_Main_Page>
<http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/stor-sys/rd1000/en/ug/appendix.htm>
<http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/en/dell_system_t
ool>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/novell_zenworks
?c=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/power/en/ps1q03_lerhaupt?c=u
s&l=en>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/services/adi/unix_to_linux?c
=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/sitelets/solutions/software/
business/sap_certified_servers?c=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/sitelets/solutions/software/
os/novell?c=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/iar/20030701_dhb.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/1q04-dum.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps2q06-20050290-anoop.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps2q06-20060133-Altiris.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps3q06-20060189-Michael.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps3q06-20060219-guinn-oe.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/Professional%20Servi
ces%20-%20HPCC%20Linux.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/oracle-nfs-whitepape
r.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/powervault-md32x0-md
32x0i-linux-dm-installation-en.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/powervault-md32x0-md
32x0i-linux-multipathing-solutions-en.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/automating_linux_management.
pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/Dell%20Unix%20to%20Linux%20F
inal%200801.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/Novell_SLES_10_INFOBrief.pdf
>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/redhat_pdf_2003.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/rhel5_infobrief.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/seven_reasons.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-tower-servers>
<http://www.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/workstations/precndt/cp.aspx?refid=pre
cndt&cs=555&s=biz>
<http://www.euro.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=il
&l=he>
<http://www.youtube.com/results?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:dell.com+linux&o
e=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=w1>
<http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=in&
l=en&cs=inbsd1>
<http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=my&
l=en&cs=mybsd1>


And that is just the tip of the iceberg... there are *hundreds* more.  The
idea that Dell is somehow trying to *hide* this information is just absurd.

> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
> so it won't sell?
> 
> The stench of corruption is overpowering.

No, that is the stench of your paranoia.
 
> It's ridiculous to then claim those products don't sell because there's
> "no demand", if the company stocking them never even made customers
> aware they ever had those products in the first place.

Your problem... well, one of your problems is you think Dell has some
obligation to give to the Linux / OSS community by advertising for them and
promoting them, even if it does not serve their business needs well.

They do not.

The world does not owe you nor does it owe Linux / OSS.
....

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2011-02-08, Flounder <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>
> <same old trolling schtick snipped>
>
>     You can't sell the masses on something if they have no where to buy it.
>
>     They aren't going to buy from some company they've never heard of.
>
>     It's a nice Catch-22. Computers aren't commodity items. They have a lot
> of "baggage" to deal with. Plus they have people like you whining that people
> can't live without nonsense like msoffice.
>
>     The fear mongering even impairs the likes of Macintosh.
>
>     That's why Apple went mobile and is more of a consumer electronics company
> now rather than a computer company. Apparently they realized the problems of
> breaking into that monopoly even with a vastly superior product.
>
>     Your kind has been screeching about "marketshare" since the beginning
> and it's ultimately irrelevant because it doesn't stop anything. Linux
> continues. It's better to avoid tripe if you have enough taste to realize
> what garbage most people are consuming.
>
>     Fortunately, Free Software doesn't have to worry about the constraints
> that undermine most alternatives.

I, too, have noticed that even a power like Google cannot tackle the
Microsoft monopoly directly.

That's why Google is following the lead of Apple in venturing into markets
where Microsoft isn't doing so well (smartphones) and branching a market off
of the desktop (true tablet computers running touch-screen style metaphors).

And they're both doing it with modified free software.

Good post, Jed!  Even Flounder is good for *something*.

-- 
When it is not necessary to make a decision, it is necessary not to
make a decision.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 06:09:37 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> flatfish+++ wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> 
> 
> Same old same old from this long-time troll.
> 
> It needs to get over itself.

Grow a spine.
Running away and hiding is no way to go through life son.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 07:28:03 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2011-02-08, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Linux.....
>> After 20 years of squawking you Linux loons still can't give 
>> away your miserable DESKTOP operating system.
>>
>> Maybe you kooks should shut up. because your "promotion" 
>> ain't working.
> 
> You can't sell the masses on something if they have no where 
> to buy it.
> 

I thought Linux was free?

But the masses saw what it was and didn't buy it, not even at such fire 
sale price.

so, what are the possible explanations for this? could it be that they 
heard that only the (self-proclaimed) brightest of the brightest can use 
it? could it be that they got disgusted with the profanity-laced customer 
support they got from the OS community? could it be that installing the 
newest printer required you to write your own driver? could it be that it 
took hours to decipher the arcane commands needed to perform the most 
mundane of tasks? could it be that installing a simple program required 
you to investigate and track its dependencies?

Can't possibly be any of those so what other excuses do you have?

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:13:27 +0000 (UTC), stukie wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 07:28:03 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
> 
>> On 2011-02-08, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Linux.....
>>> After 20 years of squawking you Linux loons still can't give 
>>> away your miserable DESKTOP operating system.
>>>
>>> Maybe you kooks should shut up. because your "promotion" 
>>> ain't working.
>> 
>> You can't sell the masses on something if they have no where 
>> to buy it.
>> 
> 
> I thought Linux was free?
> 
> But the masses saw what it was and didn't buy it, not even at such fire 
> sale price.
> 
> so, what are the possible explanations for this? could it be that they 
> heard that only the (self-proclaimed) brightest of the brightest can use 
> it? could it be that they got disgusted with the profanity-laced customer 
> support they got from the OS community? could it be that installing the 
> newest printer required you to write your own driver? could it be that it 
> took hours to decipher the arcane commands needed to perform the most 
> mundane of tasks? could it be that installing a simple program required 
> you to investigate and track its dependencies?
> 
> Can't possibly be any of those so what other excuses do you have?

It sucks is the typical one I hear.

DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:

> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>
>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>
>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
>> so it won't sell?
>
> www.dell.com/linux

Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.

*beotchslapppppp..*

Yup.

REALLY hidden ...

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:00:51 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:

> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
> 
>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>
>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>
>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides
>>> it so it won't sell?
>>
>> www.dell.com/linux
> 
> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
> 
> *beotchslapppppp..*
> 
> Yup.
> 
> REALLY hidden ...

I will say this ... on Dell's home page (www.dell.com), there is no 
mention of Linux. (There is also no mention of Windows.) There is no link 
to the Linux page from the home page.

None of the drop down menus mention Linux or Windows.

The Home and Home Office page mention Internet Explorer 8. No mention of 
Linux. The Windows logo is on some of the laptops pictured. I could find 
no link to the Linux page from the Home and Home Office page.

The Small Business page mentions Windows 7 Professional. Again, no links 
to the Linux page.

The Large Enterprise page has several links to pages discussing how to 
deploy Windows 7. The only link to the Linux page except in small print 
in the "solutions" bar in the middle of the "Technologies" part, and is 
only visible when hovering over the solutions section.

The Public Sector page has no link to the Linux page either.

>
>
>"An Old Friend"  wrote in message 
>news:pan.2011.02.08.22.09.48@friend.com.invalid...
>
>On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:00:51 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>
>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>>
>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides
>>>> it so it won't sell?
>>>
>>> www.dell.com/linux
>>
>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>>
>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> REALLY hidden ...
>
>I will say this ... on Dell's home page (www.dell.com), there is no
>mention of Linux. (There is also no mention of Windows.) There is no link
>to the Linux page from the home page.
>
>None of the drop down menus mention Linux or Windows.
>
>The Home and Home Office page mention Internet Explorer 8. No mention of
>Linux. The Windows logo is on some of the laptops pictured. I could find
>no link to the Linux page from the Home and Home Office page.
>
>The Small Business page mentions Windows 7 Professional. Again, no links
>to the Linux page.
>
>The Large Enterprise page has several links to pages discussing how to
>deploy Windows 7. The only link to the Linux page except in small print
>in the "solutions" bar in the middle of the "Technologies" part, and is
>only visible when hovering over the solutions section.
>
>The Public Sector page has no link to the Linux page either.


   http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux.aspx

Dell does have this page which isn't very anti-Linux. I haven't seen a 
similar page for Windows.

An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.08.22.09.48@friend.com.invalid on
2/8/11 3:09 PM:

> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:00:51 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
> 
>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>> 
>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides
>>>> it so it won't sell?
>>> 
>>> www.dell.com/linux
>> 
>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>> 
>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>> 
>> Yup.
>> 
>> REALLY hidden ...
> 
> I will say this ... on Dell's home page (www.dell.com), there is no
> mention of Linux. (There is also no mention of Windows.) There is no link
> to the Linux page from the home page.
> 
> None of the drop down menus mention Linux or Windows.
> 
> The Home and Home Office page mention Internet Explorer 8. No mention of
> Linux. The Windows logo is on some of the laptops pictured. I could find
> no link to the Linux page from the Home and Home Office page.
> 
> The Small Business page mentions Windows 7 Professional. Again, no links
> to the Linux page.
> 
> The Large Enterprise page has several links to pages discussing how to
> deploy Windows 7. The only link to the Linux page except in small print
> in the "solutions" bar in the middle of the "Technologies" part, and is
> only visible when hovering over the solutions section.
> 
> The Public Sector page has no link to the Linux page either.

To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather absurd...
in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I showed to Homer.
There is nothing hidden about that.

This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any means.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Hadron stated in post iirss3$51m$4@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11
10:00 AM:

> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
> 
>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>> 
>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>> 
>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
>>> so it won't sell?
>> 
>> www.dell.com/linux
> 
> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
> 
> *beotchslapppppp..*
> 
> Yup.
> 
> REALLY hidden ...

Hey, from my post to Homer on the same subject... and I easily could have
kept on going.  The idea that these pages are "hidden" is absurd, unless my
ability to find these things is just beyond belief!

--------
http://dell.com/linux
http://linux.dell.com/

They do a really, really bad job if hiding them!  And, heck, with just a
little looking:

<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/business~solutions~operating-sys
tems~en/Documents~oracle-unix-to-linux-migration.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/business~solutions~operating-sys
tems~en/Documents~red-hat-enterprise-linux-55-datasheet.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/business~solutions~whitepapers~e
n/Documents~oracle-unix2linux-migration.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/large-business/cut-costs-using-l
inux-offices.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/large-business/sampling-linux-on
-windows-7.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/large-business/windows-and-linux
-co-exist.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/operating-systems/linux-oracle.a
spx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/solutions/openmanage-linux-repos
itory.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/solutions/oracle-configs-ent-lin
ux-5.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/d/vsl/inside-track-20101217-double
take.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-benefits-of-linux-on-dell.as
px>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-components.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-dell-and-partners.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-dell-performance.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-deploying-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-implementing-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-software.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-the-value-of-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux-what-is-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux.aspx?cs=555>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/viewall/linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/d/business~solutions~operating-systems~en
/Documents~linux-journal-readrs-choice-09.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/d/business~solutions~operating-systems~en
/Documents~migrating-%20linux-sun-to-dell.pdf.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/linux-deploying-linux.aspx>
<http://content.dell.com/us/en/gen/linux.aspx>
<http://linux.dell.com/>
<http://linux.dell.com/biosdevname/>
<http://linux.dell.com/biosdisk/>
<http://linux.dell.com/devlabel/>
<http://linux.dell.com/devlabel/devlabel.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/dkms/>
<http://linux.dell.com/dkms/dkms-ols2004.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/dru/>
<http://linux.dell.com/dvdstore/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/cto/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/cto/README-June8.txt>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/name_eths/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/openipmi/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/openmanage-contributions/>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/LinuxCon_2010/linuxcon2010_domsch
..pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_2009/Simplifying_L
inux_iSCSI_management_with_iSNS-v0.7.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_May_2006/Driver_Up
date_Model.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_May_2006/ipmi_pres
entation-redhat_summit.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/presentations/Red_Hat_Summit_May_2007/rhsummit2
007.odp>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/revisor/dell-omsa52.cfg>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/tools/dump_pirq>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/nic-enum-whitepaper-v1.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/nic-enum-whitepaper-v3.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/nic-enum-whitepaper.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/PXE_UEFI_Dell_SLES11_20oct2010.pdf>
<http://linux.dell.com/git/>
<http://linux.dell.com/git/?p=dkms.git>
<http://linux.dell.com/git/?p=ubuntu-fid.git;a=summary>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/bios_hdr.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/compilation_linux.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/dell_drivers.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/libsmbios/main/index.html>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/firmware/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/firmware/bios-hdrs/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/2008_Q3/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/latest/>
<http://linux.dell.com/repo/hardware/OMSA_6.0.1/>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/GRUB_error_17_after_kernel_update>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Moblin>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Oss/Firmware_Tools>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Oss/libnetdevname>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Products/Consumer>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Products/HA/DellRedHatHALinuxCluster/O
verview>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Products/PowerEdge>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/firmware>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/hardware>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Repository/software>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Audio>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/libsmbios_dellBiosUpdate>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Modems>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Video/Intel>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Tech/Video/nVidia>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/Audio_not_working_p
roperly>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/Bluetooth_Keyboard_
and_Mouse_do_not_work_across_reboots>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04/Issues/USB-SATA_race_condi
tion_causes_hang>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.10>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.10/Issues/8400M_Suspend_Hiber
nate-Failure>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.10/Issues/New_Conexant_Modem_
Driver>
<http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/Wiki_Main_Page>
<http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/stor-sys/rd1000/en/ug/appendix.htm>
<http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/en/dell_system_t
ool>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/novell_zenworks
?c=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/power/en/ps1q03_lerhaupt?c=u
s&l=en>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/services/adi/unix_to_linux?c
=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/sitelets/solutions/software/
business/sap_certified_servers?c=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/sitelets/solutions/software/
os/novell?c=us&l=en&cs=555>
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&l=en&cs=19>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/iar/20030701_dhb.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/1q04-dum.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps2q06-20050290-anoop.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps2q06-20060133-Altiris.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps3q06-20060189-Michael.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/power/ps3q06-20060219-guinn-oe.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/Professional%20Servi
ces%20-%20HPCC%20Linux.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/oracle-nfs-whitepape
r.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/powervault-md32x0-md
32x0i-linux-dm-installation-en.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/powervault-md32x0-md
32x0i-linux-multipathing-solutions-en.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/automating_linux_management.
pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/Dell%20Unix%20to%20Linux%20F
inal%200801.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/Novell_SLES_10_INFOBrief.pdf
>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/redhat_pdf_2003.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/rhel5_infobrief.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/solutions/seven_reasons.pdf>
<http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-tower-servers>
<http://www.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/workstations/precndt/cp.aspx?refid=pre
cndt&cs=555&s=biz>
<http://www.euro.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=il
&l=he>
<http://www.youtube.com/results?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:dell.com+linux&o
e=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=w1>
<http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=in&
l=en&cs=inbsd1>
<http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=my&
l=en&cs=mybsd1>
--------


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> Hadron stated in post iirss3$51m$4@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11
> 10:00 AM:
>
>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>> 
>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
>>>> so it won't sell?
>>> 
>>> www.dell.com/linux
>> 
>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>> 
>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>> 
>> Yup.
>> 
>> REALLY hidden ...
>
> Hey, from my post to Homer on the same subject... and I easily could have
> kept on going.  The idea that these pages are "hidden" is absurd, unless my
> ability to find these things is just beyond belief!
>
> --------
> http://dell.com/linux

Somewhat absurdly "An Old Friend" mentioned it not being on the home
page and then rambled on for about 50,000,000 words about the bleeding
obvious. He could give Aragorn a run for his money... 

But I tried this:-

www.dell.de

Search field : linux

Guess what? Yup the mighty secret was not so secret anymore. What is
wrong with these people?

 

Hadron stated in post iisl0h$s3s$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11 4:52
PM:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
> 
>> Hadron stated in post iirss3$51m$4@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11
>> 10:00 AM:
>> 
>>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
>>>>> so it won't sell?
>>>> 
>>>> www.dell.com/linux
>>> 
>>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>>> 
>>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>>> 
>>> Yup.
>>> 
>>> REALLY hidden ...
>> 
>> Hey, from my post to Homer on the same subject... and I easily could have
>> kept on going.  The idea that these pages are "hidden" is absurd, unless my
>> ability to find these things is just beyond belief!
>> 
>> --------
>> http://dell.com/linux
> 
> Somewhat absurdly "An Old Friend" mentioned it not being on the home
> page and then rambled on for about 50,000,000 words about the bleeding
> obvious. He could give Aragorn a run for his money...
> 
> But I tried this:-
> 
> www.dell.de
> 
> Search field : linux
> 
> Guess what? Yup the mighty secret was not so secret anymore. What is
> wrong with these people?
> 
>  
There are hundreds and hundreds of pages about Linux... and it took me
seconds to find them.  But Homer thinks they are "hidden".  Maybe RonB has
the same attitude and that explains why he thinks the features in the Ribbon
are hidden as well.  :)


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:

> Hadron stated in post iisl0h$s3s$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11 4:52
> PM:
>
>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Hadron stated in post iirss3$51m$4@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11
>>> 10:00 AM:
>>> 
>>>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it actually
>>>>>> /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides it
>>>>>> so it won't sell?
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.dell.com/linux
>>>> 
>>>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>>>> 
>>>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>>>> 
>>>> Yup.
>>>> 
>>>> REALLY hidden ...
>>> 
>>> Hey, from my post to Homer on the same subject... and I easily could have
>>> kept on going.  The idea that these pages are "hidden" is absurd, unless my
>>> ability to find these things is just beyond belief!
>>> 
>>> --------
>>> http://dell.com/linux
>> 
>> Somewhat absurdly "An Old Friend" mentioned it not being on the home
>> page and then rambled on for about 50,000,000 words about the bleeding
>> obvious. He could give Aragorn a run for his money...
>> 
>> But I tried this:-
>> 
>> www.dell.de
>> 
>> Search field : linux
>> 
>> Guess what? Yup the mighty secret was not so secret anymore. What is
>> wrong with these people?
>> 
>>  
> There are hundreds and hundreds of pages about Linux... and it took me
> seconds to find them.  But Homer thinks they are "hidden".  Maybe RonB has
> the same attitude and that explains why he thinks the features in the Ribbon
> are hidden as well.  :)

RonB is simply a clueless idiot. Surely you realise that by now? His
constant bullshit about "consistent UIs" shows a lack of understanding
and technical competence normally only exhibited by Gordon or HPT.

Hadron stated in post iisnu2$70s$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11 5:42
PM:

>>> Somewhat absurdly "An Old Friend" mentioned it not being on the home
>>> page and then rambled on for about 50,000,000 words about the bleeding
>>> obvious. He could give Aragorn a run for his money...
>>> 
>>> But I tried this:-
>>> 
>>> www.dell.de
>>> 
>>> Search field : linux
>>> 
>>> Guess what? Yup the mighty secret was not so secret anymore. What is
>>> wrong with these people?
>>> 
>>>  
>> There are hundreds and hundreds of pages about Linux... and it took me
>> seconds to find them.  But Homer thinks they are "hidden".  Maybe RonB has
>> the same attitude and that explains why he thinks the features in the Ribbon
>> are hidden as well.  :)
> 
> RonB is simply a clueless idiot. Surely you realise that by now? His
> constant bullshit about "consistent UIs" shows a lack of understanding
> and technical competence normally only exhibited by Gordon or HPT.

His lack of logic and reasoning skills is practiced...


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:34:48 -0700, Snit chinwagged:

> An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.08.22.09.48@friend.com.invalid
> on 2/8/11 3:09 PM:
> 
>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:00:51 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>> 
>>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it
>>>>> actually /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides
>>>>> it so it won't sell?
>>>> 
>>>> www.dell.com/linux
>>> 
>>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>>> 
>>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>>> 
>>> Yup.
>>> 
>>> REALLY hidden ...
>> 
>> I will say this ... on Dell's home page (www.dell.com), there is no
>> mention of Linux. (There is also no mention of Windows.) There is no
>> link to the Linux page from the home page.
>> 
>> None of the drop down menus mention Linux or Windows.
>> 
>> The Home and Home Office page mention Internet Explorer 8. No mention
>> of Linux. The Windows logo is on some of the laptops pictured. I could
>> find no link to the Linux page from the Home and Home Office page.
>> 
>> The Small Business page mentions Windows 7 Professional. Again, no
>> links to the Linux page.
>> 
>> The Large Enterprise page has several links to pages discussing how to
>> deploy Windows 7. The only link to the Linux page except in small print
>> in the "solutions" bar in the middle of the "Technologies" part, and is
>> only visible when hovering over the solutions section.
>> 
>> The Public Sector page has no link to the Linux page either.
> 
> To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather
> absurd... in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I showed
> to Homer. There is nothing hidden about that.
> 
> This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any
> means.

Playing devil's (or angel's, depending on your side) advocate, "hidden" 
can imply either "hard to find" or "impossible to find."

It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell 
website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell unless 
I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu items. And I 
would wager that most consumers won't go to the Large Enterprise page to 
look for their next computer.

Until I got to the one link on the Large Enterprise page, I would have 
agreed that the page is hidden, since up to that time it seemed that no 
pages in the website linked to it at all. While it's not technically 
hidden, it would have been nice to have a small 100x150 graphic or so on 
the home page that said "Works with Linux," even if it was near a 
glossier "Designed for Windows 7" graphic. Putting Linux deep in a submenu 
on a page not often visited by consumers could qualify as "hidden" for 
some.

An Old Friend <an.old@friend.com.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:34:48 -0700, Snit chinwagged:
>
>> An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.08.22.09.48@friend.com.invalid
>> on 2/8/11 3:09 PM:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:00:51 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>>> 
>>>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/7/2011 10:10 PM, Homer wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dell not only fails to promote it's non-Microsoft systems, it
>>>>>> actually /hides/ them so they can't be found.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What sort of business spends money on stock, then deliberately hides
>>>>>> it so it won't sell?
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.dell.com/linux
>>>> 
>>>> Another nice slapdown for Homer from DFS.
>>>> 
>>>> *beotchslapppppp..*
>>>> 
>>>> Yup.
>>>> 
>>>> REALLY hidden ...
>>> 
>>> I will say this ... on Dell's home page (www.dell.com), there is no
>>> mention of Linux. (There is also no mention of Windows.) There is no
>>> link to the Linux page from the home page.
>>> 
>>> None of the drop down menus mention Linux or Windows.
>>> 
>>> The Home and Home Office page mention Internet Explorer 8. No mention
>>> of Linux. The Windows logo is on some of the laptops pictured. I could
>>> find no link to the Linux page from the Home and Home Office page.
>>> 
>>> The Small Business page mentions Windows 7 Professional. Again, no
>>> links to the Linux page.
>>> 
>>> The Large Enterprise page has several links to pages discussing how to
>>> deploy Windows 7. The only link to the Linux page except in small print
>>> in the "solutions" bar in the middle of the "Technologies" part, and is
>>> only visible when hovering over the solutions section.
>>> 
>>> The Public Sector page has no link to the Linux page either.
>> 
>> To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather
>> absurd... in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I showed
>> to Homer. There is nothing hidden about that.
>> 
>> This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any
>> means.
>
> Playing devil's (or angel's, depending on your side) advocate, "hidden" 
> can imply either "hard to find" or "impossible to find."


And Linux is neither.

Please. Save your energies for things of interest. Finding Linux
products on DELL pages is easy.

E-A-S-Y

An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.09.00.50.09@friend.com.invalid on
2/8/11 5:50 PM:

....
>>> The Public Sector page has no link to the Linux page either.
>> 
>> To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather
>> absurd... in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I showed
>> to Homer. There is nothing hidden about that.
>> 
>> This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any
>> means.
> 
> Playing devil's (or angel's, depending on your side) advocate, "hidden"
> can imply either "hard to find" or "impossible to find."

I can accept that... but it is neither.  It was trivial to find.

> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell unless
> I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu items. And I
> would wager that most consumers won't go to the Large Enterprise page to
> look for their next computer.

Sure, it is not pushed... that is not in question.  In the past it has been
more apparent... and Dell backed away from that.

> Until I got to the one link on the Large Enterprise page, I would have
> agreed that the page is hidden, since up to that time it seemed that no
> pages in the website linked to it at all. While it's not technically
> hidden, it would have been nice to have a small 100x150 graphic or so on
> the home page that said "Works with Linux," even if it was near a
> glossier "Designed for Windows 7" graphic. Putting Linux deep in a submenu
> on a page not often visited by consumers could qualify as "hidden" for
> some.

Neither Windows nor Linux is shown on the front page... but I would not be
surprised to see Windows there without Linux.  I also have no problem with
that.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Hadron stated in post iisok2$96r$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11 5:54
PM:

>>> To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather
>>> absurd... in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I showed
>>> to Homer. There is nothing hidden about that.
>>> 
>>> This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any
>>> means.
>> 
>> Playing devil's (or angel's, depending on your side) advocate, "hidden"
>> can imply either "hard to find" or "impossible to find."
> 
> 
> And Linux is neither.
> 
> Please. Save your energies for things of interest. Finding Linux
> products on DELL pages is easy.
> 
> E-A-S-Y

I just checked the Dell home page - they *do* mention the Streak, which is
an Android device.  On their home page.

Really hard to say this is hidden!


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:58:16 -0700, Snit chinwagged:

> Hadron stated in post iisok2$96r$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11
> 5:54 PM:
> 
>>>> To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather
>>>> absurd... in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I
>>>> showed to Homer. There is nothing hidden about that.
>>>> 
>>>> This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any
>>>> means.
>>> 
>>> Playing devil's (or angel's, depending on your side) advocate,
>>> "hidden" can imply either "hard to find" or "impossible to find."
>> 
>> 
>> And Linux is neither.
>> 
>> Please. Save your energies for things of interest. Finding Linux
>> products on DELL pages is easy.
>> 
>> E-A-S-Y
> 
> I just checked the Dell home page - they *do* mention the Streak, which
> is an Android device.  On their home page.
> 
> Really hard to say this is hidden!

I didn't know the Streak was an Android device. Oops.

An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.09.01.19.20@friend.com.invalid on
2/8/11 6:19 PM:

> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:58:16 -0700, Snit chinwagged:
> 
>> Hadron stated in post iisok2$96r$1@news.eternal-september.org on 2/8/11
>> 5:54 PM:
>> 
>>>>> To say, though, that the information is somehow hidden is rather
>>>>> absurd... in minutes, literally, I found all of those examples I
>>>>> showed to Homer. There is nothing hidden about that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This does not mean they are pushed, but they are not hidden by any
>>>>> means.
>>>> 
>>>> Playing devil's (or angel's, depending on your side) advocate,
>>>> "hidden" can imply either "hard to find" or "impossible to find."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And Linux is neither.
>>> 
>>> Please. Save your energies for things of interest. Finding Linux
>>> products on DELL pages is easy.
>>> 
>>> E-A-S-Y
>> 
>> I just checked the Dell home page - they *do* mention the Streak, which
>> is an Android device.  On their home page.
>> 
>> Really hard to say this is hidden!
> 
> I didn't know the Streak was an Android device. Oops.

No problem.  If you click on it and look at the tech specs it tells you
(that is what I did).


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:

> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell unless
> I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu items.


I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of 
www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:

> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
> 
>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>> items.
> 
> 
> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.

That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product. 
It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux solutions in a 
place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see it. It doesn't have to 
be all WOOHOO WE HAVE LINUX with a squad of busty cheerleaders shouting 
give me an L give me an I ... but it would be nice if Dell made it 
clearer to people who might not be aware that there are options beyond 
Windows and Mac that Dell offers another option.

If someone doesn't know about Linux, they can't search for it.

An Old Friend <an.old@friend.com.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>
>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>> 
>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>> items.
>> 
>> 
>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>
> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product. 
> It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux solutions in a 
> place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see it.

If people dont know about Linux then its not Dell's job to educate
them. And, indeed, IF they dont know about Linux they almost certainly
do not want Linux since Linux is a niche product.

They do have Linux products for people that want them.

They are not hidden. They are there at dell.com/linux

It could not be easier.

In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
that does not run on Windows?

On 2011-02-09, the following emerged from the brain of An Old Friend:
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>> 
>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the
>>> Dell website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by
>>> Dell unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around
>>> the menu items.
>> 
>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>
> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux
> product.  It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux
> solutions in a place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see
> it. It doesn't have to be all WOOHOO WE HAVE LINUX with a squad of
> busty cheerleaders shouting give me an L give me an I ... but it
> would be nice if Dell made it clearer to people who might not be
> aware that there are options beyond Windows and Mac that Dell offers
> another option.
>
> If someone doesn't know about Linux, they can't search for it.

That's how it is.

Mind you, I'm not saying that they must do this. If they really don't
want to, then that's their decision. But it would be nice if they did.

What struck me as curious was when they 'advertised' Ubuntu as
something for 'the advanced user' on their site. No idea if they still
do this, and I'm to lazy to go and check in out.

-- 
640K ought to be enough for anybody.
	~ Bill Gates, 1981

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:20:26 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:

> In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
> that does not run on Windows?

Very little that I'm aware of. I don't think Pan has a Windows port. Is 
Rosegarden available for Windows?

Why do you ask? I think I've said before that the reason I ended up 
switching to Ubuntu was because I was using so much open source software 
that it seemed the right thing to do. 

You always seem to ask me about Windows. Are you forgetting that I was 
primarily a Mac user--since 1994, and an Apple user since 1985--before 
switching to Ubuntu? The confusion could be because I did use Vista for a 
few unhappy months on an Acer Aspire 5113 laptop given to me after I'd 
done work on a movie soundtrack with a loaned Macbook Pro.

When I put Ubuntu on that laptop and removed Windows entirely, I was much 
happier. I used my Mac Mini less and less, and finally I loaned the Mini 
to someone who was trying to get their Hackintosh working, need the Mini 
for some file retrieval, and who never stopped complaining about how 
awful Macs were.

Since then, I got my netbook, immediately put Ubuntu on it, and have 
rarely looked back.

An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.09.11.36.17@friend.com.invalid on
2/9/11 4:36 AM:

> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:20:26 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
> 
>> In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
>> that does not run on Windows?
> 
> Very little that I'm aware of. I don't think Pan has a Windows port.

<http://pan.rebelbase.com/>
    -----
    It runs on Unix and Unix-like operating systems, Mac OS X, and Windows
    -----

> Is Rosegarden available for Windows?

I do not believe so - though there are many similar packages.  I have no
idea how good any of them are.

> Why do you ask? I think I've said before that the reason I ended up
> switching to Ubuntu was because I was using so much open source software
> that it seemed the right thing to do.
> 
> You always seem to ask me about Windows. Are you forgetting that I was
> primarily a Mac user--since 1994, and an Apple user since 1985--before
> switching to Ubuntu? The confusion could be because I did use Vista for a
> few unhappy months on an Acer Aspire 5113 laptop given to me after I'd
> done work on a movie soundtrack with a loaned Macbook Pro.
> 
> When I put Ubuntu on that laptop and removed Windows entirely, I was much
> happier. I used my Mac Mini less and less, and finally I loaned the Mini
> to someone who was trying to get their Hackintosh working, need the Mini
> for some file retrieval, and who never stopped complaining about how
> awful Macs were.
> 
> Since then, I got my netbook, immediately put Ubuntu on it, and have
> rarely looked back.

And to me that is just fine - use what works for you.


-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

An Old Friend wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:20:26 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>
>> In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
>> that does not run on Windows?
>
> Very little that I'm aware of. I don't think Pan has a Windows port. Is 
> Rosegarden available for Windows?
>
> Why do you ask? I think I've said before that the reason I ended up 
> switching to Ubuntu was because I was using so much open source software 
> that it seemed the right thing to do. 
>
> You always seem to ask me about Windows.

Of course he does.  One of "Hadron"'s main reasons for being here is to
insinuate that there is no reason to migrate away from Windows.

> Are you forgetting that I was 
> primarily a Mac user--since 1994, and an Apple user since 1985--before 
> switching to Ubuntu? The confusion could be because I did use Vista for a 
> few unhappy months on an Acer Aspire 5113 laptop given to me after I'd 
> done work on a movie soundtrack with a loaned Macbook Pro.
>
> When I put Ubuntu on that laptop and removed Windows entirely, I was much 
> happier. I used my Mac Mini less and less, and finally I loaned the Mini 
> to someone who was trying to get their Hackintosh working, need the Mini 
> for some file retrieval, and who never stopped complaining about how 
> awful Macs were.
>
> Since then, I got my netbook, immediately put Ubuntu on it, and have 
> rarely looked back.

Be nice to your computer (and yourself).  Install Linux.

-- 
You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.

TomB stated in post 20110209115034.902@usenet.drumscum.be on 2/9/11 3:54 AM:

> On 2011-02-09, the following emerged from the brain of An Old Friend:
>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the
>>>> Dell website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by
>>>> Dell unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around
>>>> the menu items.
>>> 
>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>> 
>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux
>> product.  It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux
>> solutions in a place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see
>> it. It doesn't have to be all WOOHOO WE HAVE LINUX with a squad of
>> busty cheerleaders shouting give me an L give me an I ... but it
>> would be nice if Dell made it clearer to people who might not be
>> aware that there are options beyond Windows and Mac that Dell offers
>> another option.
>> 
>> If someone doesn't know about Linux, they can't search for it.
> 
> That's how it is.
> 
> Mind you, I'm not saying that they must do this. If they really don't
> want to, then that's their decision. But it would be nice if they did.

That I can go with!  This whole idea they owe it to the Linux community is
absurd... but to say it would be nice makes sense.  And I agree.

> What struck me as curious was when they 'advertised' Ubuntu as
> something for 'the advanced user' on their site. No idea if they still
> do this, and I'm to lazy to go and check in out.

To a large extent that makes sense.

-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On 2/9/2011 5:14 AM, An Old Friend wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>
>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>
>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>> items.
>>
>>
>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>
> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product.

Which is basically nobody.

 From what I've seen, outside of the server world where 'Linux' is seen 
as 'free Unix', it's a sale retardant.



> It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux solutions in a
> place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see it. It doesn't have to
> be all WOOHOO WE HAVE LINUX with a squad of busty cheerleaders shouting
> give me an L give me an I ... but it would be nice if Dell made it
> clearer to people who might not be aware that there are options beyond
> Windows and Mac that Dell offers another option.

It would be nice?  There's nothing nice about Dell devoting large 
resources to promoting and selling and supporting Linux if it doesn't 
offer a reasonable return.

I have an idea - one I've promoted often here on cola:  why don't you 
start a computer OEM (with the backing of your life savings and possibly 
those of the cola "advocates"), and plaster 'Linux' all over it?

Oh, that's right, it's always someone else's responsibility to risk 
their time and money to promote the proven non-seller Linux.





> If someone doesn't know about Linux, they can't search for it.

If someone doesn't know about eSata they can't search for it.  Not sure 
what you're trying to say.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:54:09 -0700, Snit chinwagged:

> An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.09.11.36.17@friend.com.invalid
> on 2/9/11 4:36 AM:
> 
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:20:26 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>> 
>>> In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
>>> that does not run on Windows?
>>
>> You always seem to ask me about Windows. Are you forgetting that I was
>> primarily a Mac user--since 1994, and an Apple user since 1985--before
>> switching to Ubuntu? The confusion could be because I did use Vista for
>> a few unhappy months on an Acer Aspire 5113 laptop given to me after
>> I'd done work on a movie soundtrack with a loaned Macbook Pro.
>> 
>> When I put Ubuntu on that laptop and removed Windows entirely, I was
>> much happier. I used my Mac Mini less and less, and finally I loaned
>> the Mini to someone who was trying to get their Hackintosh working,
>> need the Mini for some file retrieval, and who never stopped
>> complaining about how awful Macs were.
>> 
>> Since then, I got my netbook, immediately put Ubuntu on it, and have
>> rarely looked back.
> 
> And to me that is just fine - use what works for you.

It makes me wonder why this keeps coming up. While it's clear that *you* 
understand, Snit, it seems like I keep telling the same story to the same 
people. (By the way, thanks for the tip about Pan being supported in 
other operating systems. If you remember, I gave a comparison of 
Rosegarden and Garageband a while back that demonstrates the advantages 
of each.)

And, additionally, it doesn't matter to me whether all the free software 
I use is available for other operating systems. The software I use is 
available for use on Ubuntu; I chose to use Ubuntu. If someone else 
decides that they'd rather use that free software on Windows or OS X, I'm 
not going to condemn the person for making that choice.

If they decide that they want to use the proprietary software, that's 
fine by me, too, but it won't cause me to stop using and enjoying the 
software I'm currently using.

I co-exist just fine with Ubuntu, just as I did 15 years ago with the Mac 
OS.

On 2011-02-09, An Old Friend <an.old@friend.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>
>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>> 
>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>> items.
>> 
>> 
>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.

   ...except those items don't actually come with Linux.

   If you fall through the first entry in that search result and go 
through the defaults you are presented with something that gives you
9 options for Windows but none for Linux. There isn't even a FreeDOS
option.

   That's NINE options for the OS.

>
> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product. 

   Actually. No it isn't.

   The search results for both Linux and Ubuntu aren't terribly helpful.
Although the general search capapbilites on Dell.com kind of suck. If I
wanted to fine tune a selection for HTPC purposes and wanted to run Win7
on it, the site would not be of much more help.

   It's kind of crappy all around.

-- 
	Nothing quite gives you an understanding of mysql's         |||
	popularity as does an attempt to do some simple date       / | \
	manipulations in postgres.

On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
> 
>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>> 
>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>> items.
>> 
>> 
>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
> 
> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product.

All 5 of them?

Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
The best selling products are on the front page.

Linux doesn't qualify.
 
> It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux solutions in a 
> place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see it. It doesn't have to 
> be all WOOHOO WE HAVE LINUX with a squad of busty cheerleaders shouting 
> give me an L give me an I ... but it would be nice if Dell made it 
> clearer to people who might not be aware that there are options beyond 
> Windows and Mac that Dell offers another option.

Bestbuy and other big box stores did exactly that with Linux powered
netbooks.

They were right next to the Windows versions.

Guess which ones are no longer for sale?


> If someone doesn't know about Linux, they can't search for it.

People know about Linux.
They just don't want it because it is a downgrade for most of them due
to applications.

Being free evidently isn't good enough to entice people away from
Windows to Linux.
Neither was that abortion called Vista.

The Linux community needs to figure out why average people are repulsed
by Linux and then go about rectifying it.
Until that happens, desktop Linux will go the same place it's gone in
the last 20 years.

Essentially no place.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:08:58 -0500, DFS wrote:


>  From what I've seen, outside of the server world where 'Linux' is seen 
> as 'free Unix', it's a sale retardant.

Sale retardent...
Hahahahha!

Good one!


> 
> 
>> It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux solutions in a
>> place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see it. It doesn't have to
>> be all WOOHOO WE HAVE LINUX with a squad of busty cheerleaders shouting
>> give me an L give me an I ... but it would be nice if Dell made it
>> clearer to people who might not be aware that there are options beyond
>> Windows and Mac that Dell offers another option.
> 
> It would be nice?  There's nothing nice about Dell devoting large 
> resources to promoting and selling and supporting Linux if it doesn't 
> offer a reasonable return.

They probably sell it at a loss because of all the returned machines
they get when people realize they bought Linux instead of Windows.

I'll bet the Dell outlet store is full of those things.
 
> I have an idea - one I've promoted often here on cola:  why don't you 
> start a computer OEM (with the backing of your life savings and possibly 
> those of the cola "advocates"), and plaster 'Linux' all over it?

Better off to play the Lotto.
Your chances of hitting the big one are better than trying to make money
selling desktop Linux.


> Oh, that's right, it's always someone else's responsibility to risk 
> their time and money to promote the proven non-seller Linux.

With Linux, it's always someone else's fault.

Rule #1 in COLA, never admint Linux has faults.
Rule #2 Microsoft made me do it.

Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> An Old Friend wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:20:26 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>>
>>> In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
>>> that does not run on Windows?
[...]
>> You always seem to ask me about Windows.
>
> Of course he does.  One of "Hadron"'s main reasons for being here is
> to insinuate that there is no reason to migrate away from Windows.

As if the mere fact of Free Software running on the proprietary,
virus and bug-ridden Windows OS is any kind of incentive to not.

-- 
K.                           | "MS is working fast and furious
http://slated.org            |  on security." ~ DFS, June 2004
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky   | 
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 46 days  |  http://tinyurl.com/doofygoofs1

On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>> 
>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>>> items.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>> 
>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product.
>
> All 5 of them?
>
> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.

    No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.

    Your excuses continue to get weaker by the moment.

[deletia]

-- 
	Metallica is not worth the ruination of someone               |||
	who has pirated their music                                  / | \

Verily I say unto thee, that TomB spake thusly:
> On 2011-02-09, the following emerged from the brain of An Old Friend:

>> It would be nice for Dell to mention that they offer Linux
>> solutions in a place where people unfamiliar with Linux would see
>> it.
[...]
> If they really don't want to, then that's their decision. But it would
> be nice if they did.

But it isn't about being nice, or making magnanimous gestures, or doing
anyone a favour. It's basic common sense that any retailer who goes to
the trouble and expense of stocking a product should make every effort
to actually sell it. That is, after all, the whole point of stocking
that item, the whole point of being a retailer.

But when a retailer buys stock, hides it away, warns-off the few
customers who actually manage to find it, then later claims there's "no
demand", there's clearly an ulterior motive, and it's clearly corrupt.
And given that we already know for a fact that Michael Dell /is/
corrupt, and actively engaged in that corruption for at least 5 years,
and was subsequently prosecuted for it, it's not much of an assumption,
especially when the party most interested in seeing this product fail is
also known for a fact to be corrupt, and known to exert pressure on Dell
in exactly the same way Intel did shortly before also being prosecuted.

Am I the only one who understands this?

This isn't about Dell doing us any favours, it's about doing what's
expected of them as a retailer, in terms of law, ethics, business
acumen, and simple common sense.

-- 
K.                           | "MS is working fast and furious
http://slated.org            |  on security." ~ DFS, June 2004
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky   | 
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 46 days  |  http://tinyurl.com/doofygoofs1

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:18:46 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:

> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>> 
>>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>>>> items.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>>> 
>>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product.
>>
>> All 5 of them?
>>
>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
> 
>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.

It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
displayed so people leave the site....


>     Your excuses continue to get weaker by the moment.


And your stupidity is as consistent as it always has been jedi.

On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:18:46 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the Dell
>>>>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>>>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>>>>> items.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>>>> 
>>>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux product.
>>>
>>> All 5 of them?
>>>
>>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
>> 
>>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
>> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.
>
> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
> products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
> displayed so people leave the site....

....yeah. Sure. 

How do you come up with this nonsense?

-- 
	Metallica is not worth the ruination of someone               |||
	who has pirated their music                                  / | \

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnil5tam.dek.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:18:46 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the 
>>>>>>> Dell
>>>>>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>>>>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>>>>>> items.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>>>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux 
>>>>> product.
>>>>
>>>> All 5 of them?
>>>>
>>>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
>>>
>>>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
>>> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.
>>
>> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
>> products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
>> displayed so people leave the site....
>
> ...yeah. Sure.

And when people order a computer with no OS or *not* the OS they expected 
and return the computer who takes the loss then?

The computer now has to be sold as either used or refurburbished for what is 
essentially a loss. And don't waste my time telling me that the average Joe 
will understand what an 'operating system' is so they won't be making this 
mistake.


> How do you come up with this nonsense?

Not like you, huh. The "cola advocate" who thinks he knows how to run Dell 
from behind is little green-screen monitor.

An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.09.15.27.16@friend.com.invalid on
2/9/11 8:27 AM:

> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:54:09 -0700, Snit chinwagged:
> 
>> An Old Friend stated in post pan.2011.02.09.11.36.17@friend.com.invalid
>> on 2/9/11 4:36 AM:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:20:26 +0100, Hadron chinwagged:
>>> 
>>>> In addition you are a proponent of Free SW. Which Free SW do you use
>>>> that does not run on Windows?
>>> 
>>> You always seem to ask me about Windows. Are you forgetting that I was
>>> primarily a Mac user--since 1994, and an Apple user since 1985--before
>>> switching to Ubuntu? The confusion could be because I did use Vista for
>>> a few unhappy months on an Acer Aspire 5113 laptop given to me after
>>> I'd done work on a movie soundtrack with a loaned Macbook Pro.
>>> 
>>> When I put Ubuntu on that laptop and removed Windows entirely, I was
>>> much happier. I used my Mac Mini less and less, and finally I loaned
>>> the Mini to someone who was trying to get their Hackintosh working,
>>> need the Mini for some file retrieval, and who never stopped
>>> complaining about how awful Macs were.
>>> 
>>> Since then, I got my netbook, immediately put Ubuntu on it, and have
>>> rarely looked back.
>> 
>> And to me that is just fine - use what works for you.
> 
> It makes me wonder why this keeps coming up. While it's clear that *you*
> understand, Snit, it seems like I keep telling the same story to the same
> people. 

I give the same response to preempt the claims tat I am pushing OS X (or
whatever).  Use what you like.

> (By the way, thanks for the tip about Pan being supported in
> other operating systems. If you remember, I gave a comparison of
> Rosegarden and Garageband a while back that demonstrates the advantages
> of each.)

Yes, you did.  Some of it went over my head if I recall correctly.  My only
knowledge of working with music is playing the kazoo.  :)
 
> And, additionally, it doesn't matter to me whether all the free software
> I use is available for other operating systems. The software I use is
> available for use on Ubuntu; I chose to use Ubuntu. If someone else
> decides that they'd rather use that free software on Windows or OS X, I'm
> not going to condemn the person for making that choice.

Completely fair and reasonable.

> If they decide that they want to use the proprietary software, that's
> fine by me, too, but it won't cause me to stop using and enjoying the
> software I'm currently using.
> 
> I co-exist just fine with Ubuntu, just as I did 15 years ago with the Mac
> OS.



-- 
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

On 2011-02-09, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
> news:slrnil5tam.dek.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:18:46 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the 
>>>>>>>> Dell
>>>>>>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>>>>>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>>>>>>> items.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>>>>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux 
>>>>>> product.
>>>>>
>>>>> All 5 of them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
>>>>
>>>>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
>>>> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.
>>>
>>> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
>>> products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
>>> displayed so people leave the site....
>>
>> ...yeah. Sure.
>
> And when people order a computer with no OS or *not* the OS they expected 
> and return the computer who takes the loss then?

   You could say the same of the NINE other Windows options.

   Although the technical challenges here are quite minor. Such options
could simply be limited by what entry point you take into the site. Those
options need not even be accessable unless someone goes through the Ubuntu
page first.

   Dell's interface in general sucks and not just because of how they
present Linux options or searches.


[deletia]
>> How do you come up with this nonsense?
>
> Not like you, huh. The "cola advocate" who thinks he knows how to run Dell 
> from behind is little green-screen monitor.

   Repeating a stupid lie doesn't make you any more presumptious than me.

   Your little bit of snark also doesn't address the "profit" issue.

   It's just more nonsense and distraction.

-- 
	Metallica is not worth the ruination of someone               |||
	who has pirated their music                                  / | \

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:39:08 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:

> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
> news:slrnil5tam.dek.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:18:46 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not impossible to find, but if I were a consumer visiting the 
>>>>>>>> Dell
>>>>>>>> website, I would not know that Linux was an option offered by Dell
>>>>>>>> unless I went to Large Enterprise page and then dug around the menu
>>>>>>>> items.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would just enter 'Linux' in the search box at top right of
>>>>>>> www.dell.com and choose an item that pops up immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great for people who are specifically looking for a Linux 
>>>>>> product.
>>>>>
>>>>> All 5 of them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
>>>>
>>>>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
>>>> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.
>>>
>>> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
>>> products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
>>> displayed so people leave the site....
>>
>> ...yeah. Sure.
> 
> And when people order a computer with no OS or *not* the OS they expected 
> and return the computer who takes the loss then?

Or when they mistakenly buy a Linux computer, like the netbooks, and
return it because it isn't Windows.


> The computer now has to be sold as either used or refurburbished for what is 
> essentially a loss. And don't waste my time telling me that the average Joe 
> will understand what an 'operating system' is so they won't be making this 
> mistake.


Correct.
 
> 
>> How do you come up with this nonsense?
> 
> Not like you, huh. The "cola advocate" who thinks he knows how to run Dell 
> from behind is little green-screen monitor.

Jeb is clueless.
You put your best sellers on the home page, front page of a flyer etc.

Putting Linux there will just encourage people to move on....

Net result = lost sales.

Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:

>> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
>> products

"Flagship" ... LOL.

As "flagships" go, Windows is more like the Titanic: big, expensive,
fatally flawed, operated by amateurs, designed and owned by incompetent,
cavalier and corrupt businessmen, and fated to eventually sink.

>> IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW)

Retailers can sell anything that is a) fit for purpose and b) is
sufficiently well marketed. GNU/Linux is certainly more fit for purpose
than that virus and bug-ridden garbage known as Windows, so the only
reason it doesn't sell (on the desktop, at least) is because the likes
of Dell refuse to adequately market those Linux desktops. In fact, short
of a few vacuous press releases, and a hidden web page that, if you
actually manage to find it, is plastered with anti-Linux warnings, Dell
makes zero effort to actually sell these systems at all, even on the
rare occasions they claim to stock them.

That's clearly Dell's failure, not GNU/Linux's, and given what we now
know for a fact about Dell's susceptibility to large-scale bribery, it's
very clear /why/ they're making such a half-hearted effort to sell Linux
desktops.

>> aren't displayed so people leave the site....

Bullshit. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe Dell couldn't
squeeze a single Ubuntu PC 2 by 4 boxout on their front page, next
to the dozens of links to Windows systems? Stocking items not generally
well known to the mainstream is all the /more/ reason to advertise them.
How exactly is a potential customer supposed to consider buying
something they don't even know exists? How are they supposed to search
for something they've never heard of? How are they ever going to benefit
from superior systems like GNU/Linux, with better security, stability,
efficiency, flexibility, and costs, if those systems are hidden away to
satisfy demands and bribes by criminal monopolisers like Microsoft?

> ...yeah. Sure. 
>
> How do you come up with this nonsense?

The weekly memo from Sweaty Ballmer, no doubt.

-- 
K.                           | "MS is working fast and furious
http://slated.org            |  on security." ~ DFS, June 2004
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky   | 
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 47 days  |  http://tinyurl.com/doofygoofs1

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
news:slrnil6747.q4o.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2011-02-09, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
>>>>>
>>>>>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
>>>>> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.
>>>>
>>>> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
>>>> products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
>>>> displayed so people leave the site....
>>>
>>> ...yeah. Sure.
>>
>> And when people order a computer with no OS or *not* the OS they expected
>> and return the computer who takes the loss then?
>
>   You could say the same of the NINE other Windows options.

Not really. To the average customer whatever version of Windows they get is 
still going to be a version of Windows that meets their "expectations" of a 
computer. Whether it's 32 or 64-bit for most people when it comes to using 
the computer there isn't going to be any appreciable difference.


>   Although the technical challenges here are quite minor. Such options
> could simply be limited by what entry point you take into the site. Those
> options need not even be accessable unless someone goes through the Ubuntu
> page first.
>
>   Dell's interface in general sucks and not just because of how they
> present Linux options or searches.
>
>
> [deletia]
>>> How do you come up with this nonsense?
>>
>> Not like you, huh. The "cola advocate" who thinks he knows how to run 
>> Dell
>> from behind is little green-screen monitor.
>
>   Repeating a stupid lie doesn't make you any more presumptious than me.
>
>   Your little bit of snark also doesn't address the "profit" issue.

So you still don't see the connection between 'product return rates', 
'support costs' and 'profit'  -  really?

On 2011-02-10, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:39:08 -0500, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
>> news:slrnil5tam.dek.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:18:46 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-02-09, flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2011 11:14:30 +0100, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:32:37 -0500, DFS chinwagged:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2011 7:50 PM, An Old Friend wrote:
>>>>>>>>
[deletia]
>> 
>>> How do you come up with this nonsense?
>> 
>> Not like you, huh. The "cola advocate" who thinks he knows how to run Dell 
>> from behind is little green-screen monitor.
>
> Jeb is clueless.

    Not at all. 

    I'm just not a Windows partisan desperate to make weak excuses.

    What's another option if there's already NINE.

    Yes. Dell has NINE OS choices already.

    You guys like to sneer from the peanut gallery about this stuff but
clearly you've never even bothered to use it.

-- 

   Nevermind the pirates. Sony needs to worry about it's own back catalog. |||
   	     	 	       	     	      	    	     	  	  / | \

On 2011-02-10, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message 
> news:slrnil6747.q4o.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2011-02-09, Ezekiel <no_zeke@fake-zeke.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Advertising space cost money, even on a web page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     No it doesn't. It's just a file that sits there until someone
>>>>>> requests it. There is no real cost here. It's inconsequential.
>>>>>
>>>>> It cost money in terms of potential lost sales because your flagship
>>>>> products, IOW the ones you can actually sell (not Linux BTW) aren't
>>>>> displayed so people leave the site....
>>>>
>>>> ...yeah. Sure.
>>>
>>> And when people order a computer with no OS or *not* the OS they expected
>>> and return the computer who takes the loss then?
>>
>>   You could say the same of the NINE other Windows options.
>
> Not really. To the average customer whatever version of Windows they get is 
> still going to be a version of Windows that meets their "expectations" of a 
> computer. Whether it's 32 or 64-bit for most people when it comes to using 
> the computer there isn't going to be any appreciable difference.

    Actually, that difference is nothing to gloss over.

    That can be the difference between your special proprietary app or 
favorite device driver being well supported and relatively bug free or not.

[deletia]

    No. The various flavors of Windows are not all interchangeable.

-- 

   Nevermind the pirates. Sony needs to worry about it's own back catalog. |||
   	     	 	       	     	      	    	     	  	  / | \