f



IBM is only in it for a free OS

A lot of people argue that IBM is or is not "trustworthy." I submit that it
is irrelevant. IBM is working with Linux for only one reason: a free to
distribute operating system and environment. IBM is no more than a fair
weather friend of Linux, it just so happens they see an opportunity to free
themselves from a reliance on Microsoft.

The matter of trust implies there are motives above and beyond the obvious.
Is there some strange man with a maniacal laugh saying "We'll pretend to be
their friend, and once we have their trust, we'll have them!" While nothing
is impossible, I think this very unlikely at IBM. (SCO, obviously.) Will
they risk their business and customers for Linux? No. If the tide turns
against Linux, IBM will stick it out only as long as it makes business
sense to do so.

While we would obviously like to project some sort of white knight status on
IBM, it would be foolish to do so. Every corporation will do whats in its
(or the executives) best interrest. Just as everyone can be laid off if
sales are down, IBM will abandon Linux if it seems like the most profitable
move to make.

This sort of relationship is probably the best Linux should hope for.
Altruism for a cause is unreliable, a change of heart and you lose support
without warning. A common motivation, however, provides a transparent
framework for coperation. Since the framework is based on common
motivations, it should be possible to see any breakdown coming and prepare.

IBM is no saint, but as long as our objectives are at least complementary, 
it should be safe to accept their help.

This position more or less applies to all companies that wish to be involved
with Linux. It was obvious that Caldera never had complementary objectives
with Linux. They always intended to create a proprietary system. The
"United Linux" system was a blueprint for proprietizing Linux. We should
also be suspect of the member distributions that supported the proprietary
aspects of the plan.
0
mlw (2191)
1/8/2004 2:40:51 PM
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mlw wrote:

> 
> A lot of people argue that IBM is or is not "trustworthy." I submit that
> it is irrelevant. IBM is working with Linux for only one reason: a free to
> distribute operating system and environment. IBM is no more than a fair
> weather friend of Linux, it just so happens they see an opportunity to
> free themselves from a reliance on Microsoft.
> 
> The matter of trust implies there are motives above and beyond the
> obvious. Is there some strange man with a maniacal laugh saying "We'll
> pretend to be their friend, and once we have their trust, we'll have
> them!" While nothing is impossible, I think this very unlikely at IBM.
> (SCO, obviously.) Will they risk their business and customers for Linux?
> No. If the tide turns against Linux, IBM will stick it out only as long as
> it makes business sense to do so.
> 
> While we would obviously like to project some sort of white knight status
> on IBM, it would be foolish to do so. Every corporation will do whats in
> its (or the executives) best interrest. Just as everyone can be laid off
> if sales are down, IBM will abandon Linux if it seems like the most
> profitable move to make.
> 
> This sort of relationship is probably the best Linux should hope for.
> Altruism for a cause is unreliable, a change of heart and you lose support
> without warning. A common motivation, however, provides a transparent
> framework for coperation. Since the framework is based on common
> motivations, it should be possible to see any breakdown coming and
> prepare.
> 
> IBM is no saint, but as long as our objectives are at least complementary,
> it should be safe to accept their help.
> 
> This position more or less applies to all companies that wish to be
> involved with Linux. It was obvious that Caldera never had complementary
> objectives with Linux. They always intended to create a proprietary
> system. The "United Linux" system was a blueprint for proprietizing Linux.
> We should also be suspect of the member distributions that supported the
> proprietary aspects of the plan.

I agree - The possibility and likelyhood of them being mercenary does not
bother me at all. The fact that they see GNU/Linux as a total solution and
the best bet for business success is nothing short of fantastic in my
estimation.
0
nospam5794 (29)
1/8/2004 2:51:46 PM
> mlw (mlw@nospam.no) wrote on comp.os.linux.advocacy (Thursday 08
January 2004 15:40) :
> A lot of people argue that IBM is or is not "trustworthy." I submit
> that it is irrelevant. IBM is working with Linux for only one reason:
> a free to distribute operating system and environment.

   False, it is doing it for money. Any other reason would be stupid for
a company.

> IBM is no more
> than a fair weather friend of Linux, it just so happens they see an
> opportunity to free themselves from a reliance on Microsoft.

   I agree. This does not mean that once Microsoft is down (and I think
it will be), IBM can try some things that would not be good for free
software in my opinion. So okay, they use us, but don't forget we're
using them too, I just want some care while handling this kind of
entities.

> While we would obviously like to project some sort of white knight
> status on IBM, it would be foolish to do so. Every corporation will do
> whats in its (or the executives) best interrest. Just as everyone can
> be laid off if sales are down, IBM will abandon Linux if it seems like
> the most profitable move to make.

   That's right. So we do not want to rely too much on IBM, want us ? I
mean development tools, filesystems, ... 
 
> IBM is no saint, but as long as our objectives are at least
> complementary, it should be safe to accept their help.

   I'd like better than accept a help, work together, it sounds more
from equal to equal.
 
-- 

   Robert Foster.
0
1/8/2004 3:16:40 PM
I think "free" in a money sense for use of Linux is probably a very
small factor in IBM using it.  Think about hardware costs plus cost of
a place to keep and run it, plus cost of a knowledgeable people to
maintain it plus cost of less knowledgeable people to use it, and even
if you go Microsoft the system and software costs aren't that much of
the total.  I think IBM could be looking at Linux for these reasons:

1) A *lot* of very good people are looking at the Linux source pretty
   much all of the time.  The source code evolves rapidly; flaws get
   found and fixed quickly.  A closed shop of a few or a few tens of
   people cannot possibly equal this effect.  "All problems are simple
   when seen by enough eyes."

2) Linux is a unix derivative, and as such it has a far better
   historical and technological base than Microsoft could ever do.
   And unlike Microsoft products, it was never screwed-up to
   sales-office and PR specs, I mean, "designed," for maximum
   incompatibility with other people's softwares.  (See Eric Raymond,
   The Art of Unix Programming.)

3) And for at least the two reasons above, unixes in general and Linux
   in particular, are increasingly used for all sorts of serious
   work.  For instance, TeX, one of the basic unix text processing
   resources.  It's far more effective than anything from Microsoft,
   and by the way, it runs from smaller and more portable files.  This
   multipled by various factors, is why Linux gets used around the
   world for technical work -- and for nontechnical work.  Linux is
   generic and becoming general -- Microsoft products fail.

So with those strengths, Linux doesn't need to be inexpensive to be a
winner (but of course, it sure helps).  And the pricing gives it an
advantage in third-world countries where people too often must use
hand-me-down gear perhaps extracted from junk piles of more rich
countries.

In my view, someone in IBM sees how the wind is blowing and realizes
the inherent advantages anyway in Linux.  So I think the idea that IBM
is plugging Linux just because it's "cheaper," reflects not truth but
thinking on much too small and narrow a base.

Cheers -- Martha Adams
0
mha22 (147)
1/8/2004 3:23:22 PM
> Martha H Adams (mha@TheWorld.com) wrote on comp.os.linux.advocacy
(Thursday 08 January 2004 16:23) :
> In my view, someone in IBM sees how the wind is blowing and realizes
> the inherent advantages anyway in Linux.  So I think the idea that IBM
> is plugging Linux just because it's "cheaper," reflects not truth but
> thinking on much too small and narrow a base.
> Cheers -- Martha Adams

   Do you work at IBM ? :-) Cheers.

-- 

   Robert Foster.
0
1/8/2004 3:31:06 PM
mlw wrote:

> "United Linux" system was a blueprint for proprietizing Linux. We should
> also be suspect of the member distributions that supported the proprietary
> aspects of the plan.

Why do you and Bill Gate fear Mainframe Linux so much?

I am a powerful z-series OS, which can run 128 instances of me.

Are you afraid of me, because I consolidate servers?   Reducing your 
mighty farms of windos servers to a single i, p, or z series server?

Yes, mlw and Bill Gate should fear Mainframe Linux.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
0
zseries (76)
1/8/2004 4:58:51 PM
mlw wrote:

> 
> A lot of people argue that IBM is or is not "trustworthy." I submit that
> it is irrelevant. IBM is working with Linux for only one reason: a free to
> distribute operating system and environment. IBM is no more than a fair
> weather friend of Linux, 

The OS is a commodity. If consumers actually had to pay a seperate line item
for their Operating System, I seriously doubt they'd buy MS-Windows. Most
consumers assume that the OS comes with the hardware.

> it just so happens they see an opportunity to
> free themselves from a reliance on Microsoft.

Can you blame them?

> 
> The matter of trust implies there are motives above and beyond the
> obvious. Is there some strange man with a maniacal laugh saying "We'll
> pretend to be their friend, and once we have their trust, we'll have
> them!" While nothing is impossible, I think this very unlikely at IBM.
> (SCO, obviously.) Will they risk their business and customers for Linux?
> No. If the tide turns against Linux, IBM will stick it out only as long as
> it makes business sense to do so.
> 

That's what businesses do. Make money. If they can't make money then I would
fully expect them to drop Linux.

> While we would obviously like to project some sort of white knight status
> on IBM, it would be foolish to do so. Every corporation will do whats in
> its (or the executives) best interrest. Just as everyone can be laid off
> if sales are down, IBM will abandon Linux if it seems like the most
> profitable move to make.

I don't think there's anyone in here who is questioning the reason that IBM
is getting behind Linux. They are a big corporation who's sole purpose is
to make money. That's what corps do.

> 
> This sort of relationship is probably the best Linux should hope for.
> Altruism for a cause is unreliable, a change of heart and you lose support
> without warning. A common motivation, however, provides a transparent
> framework for coperation. Since the framework is based on common
> motivations, it should be possible to see any breakdown coming and
> prepare.

As long as it's a mutually beneficial relationship, then I don't have a
problem with it. Hell, they're doing us a _huge_ favour by taking SCO to
task even if it isn't really Linux SCO is going after. (Technically, it's a
contract dispute between SCO and IBM. Linux is unfortunately just along for
the ride.)

> 
> IBM is no saint, but as long as our objectives are at least complementary,
> it should be safe to accept their help.

Companies will do what they have to to be successful. I expect nothing less.

> 
> This position more or less applies to all companies that wish to be
> involved with Linux. It was obvious that Caldera never had complementary
> objectives with Linux. They always intended to create a proprietary
> system. The "United Linux" system was a blueprint for proprietizing Linux.
> We should also be suspect of the member distributions that supported the
> proprietary aspects of the plan.

I don't know if I agree with that. Even if they proprietarized sections of
the system, the kernel and most of the libs would still be GPL/LGPL and
there'd still be debian.

-- 
Donovan Hill
0
spamtrap (243)
1/8/2004 7:30:01 PM
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:40:51 GMT, mlw <mlw@nospam.no> wrote:

>
>A lot of people argue that IBM is or is not "trustworthy." I submit that it
>is irrelevant. IBM is working with Linux for only one reason: a free to
>distribute operating system and environment. IBM is no more than a fair
>weather friend of Linux, it just so happens they see an opportunity to free
>themselves from a reliance on Microsoft.


By the time IBM and others get through with Linux, we will not even recognize
it.

At some point IBM will skirt the GPL and even if they are not able to do that
they will release a commercial version of Linux which will steam roll the free
versions.

IOW the software included in the commercial version will be so good that only
the true geek will go for the free stuff.

IBM is the inventor of the dirty tricks department and has schooled MS and
others well in how to implement said dirty tricks.

Want to know what IBM is up these days from an employee POV?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmunion/

IBM is being investigated by the SEC:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/message/52275

IBM Execs charged with bribery?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/message/52250

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

IBM is into Linux for one reason and one reason only, money.

BTW IBM is also moving it's call center to the Philippines someplace.
That's the central place that IBM's clients would call if they have a problem
with an IBM machine.
ie:1-800-IBM-SERV

Dell tried it an it was a disaster because of the language barrier.

Tech support will be next.

Talk to ANY IBMer and they will tell you that IBM is playing with smoke and
mirrors and as the executives get fatter and fatter, the employees as well as
the clients of IBM are getting screwed.
IBM has so much money and asset that they could exist for 10 years or more
without bringing in a single penny.

But the execs don't care because they will take their golden parachutes and head
for the hills leaving a pile of rubble and ruined lives behind.

IBM is the next Enron.....

Laugh now, but........

You will see......

My advice is to support distributions like Gentoo, Slackware and Debian as well
as others and not only do so with word but with $$$$.

I have and I look at it as an investment in my kids future.


flatfish+++


0
flatfish4 (6248)
1/8/2004 11:06:40 PM
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:06:40 -0500, flatfish+++ wrote:

> IBM is into Linux for one reason and one reason only, money.
> 
> BTW IBM is also moving it's call center to the Philippines someplace.
> That's the central place that IBM's clients would call if they have a problem
> with an IBM machine.
> ie:1-800-IBM-SERV
> 
> Dell tried it an it was a disaster because of the language barrier.
> 
> Tech support will be next.
> 
> Talk to ANY IBMer and they will tell you that IBM is playing with smoke and
> mirrors and as the executives get fatter and fatter, the employees as well as
> the clients of IBM are getting screwed.
> IBM has so much money and asset that they could exist for 10 years or more
> without bringing in a single penny.
> 
> But the execs don't care because they will take their golden parachutes and head
> for the hills leaving a pile of rubble and ruined lives behind.
> 
> IBM is the next Enron.....
> 
> Laugh now, but........
> 
> You will see......
> 
> My advice is to support distributions like Gentoo, Slackware and Debian as well
> as others and not only do so with word but with $$$$.
> 
> I have and I look at it as an investment in my kids future.

Well said, flatfish.  IBM is going where the money is.

-- 
Linux 3jane.ertw.com 2.4.20-28.8 #1 Thu Dec 18 12:24:59 EST 2003 i586
  8:25pm  up 1 day,  8:47,  1 user,  load average: 0.56, 0.36, 0.16

0
1/9/2004 2:28:27 AM
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Hello, I'm making a study about the real time OS based on linux. To do that I would to know if anybody can give me information about an RTOS on which one he worked or studied. Indeed to do my repport I want to answer for each OS at those questions: - Supported Target CPU - Supported Network - Kernel ROM/RAM (min, max) - Min RAM per process - Min RAM per thread - Min RAM per queue - Number of priority level - Thread switch latency (Typical, Max) - Guaranteed Max Interrupt latency (typical, max) - System Clock Resolution - Multiprocess supported ? - Multi-CPU supported ?...

IBM wants OS/2 users to transition to Linux?
Then why dont they show this support by offering it pre-loaded on their PCs? http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/10/08/HNmsdominance_1.html > Then why don't they show this support by offering it pre-loaded > on their PCs? > Thanks for the article. Interesting to see "what is going on". AFAIK, IBM does pre-install Linux on *some* of their E-Server and/or NetFinity Server computer systems. (They may have a different brand name by now.), for instance as a choice between a Microsoft product or the Red Hat Linux product. (IBM is(was?) a major name owner/shareholder o...

Linux: the OS that lost IBM investors $49 billion
IBM (a Linux company) market cap: Mar 8 2013: $235B Oct 2 2014: $186B down $49 billion (you "advocates" don't mind idiotic posts like this, do you? You sure don't mind when they're made by that babbling liar 7). On 10/3/14 5:27 PM, Ezekiel wrote: > "Melzzzzz" <mel@zzzzz.com> wrote in message > news:m0mcoc$l35$3@news.albasani.net... >> On 10/3/14 4:32 PM, DFS wrote: >>> IBM (a Linux company) market cap: >>> >>> Mar 8 2013: $235B >>> Oct 2 2014: $186B >>> >>> down $49 billion >> >> Sun does not exist anymore... and it is not because of Linux, >> rather their investment in SPARC/Solaris. > > Apollo computer, Data General and DEC don't exist anymore either. What does > any of this have to do with Sun? It has to do with IBM. Company does not loose money on Linux for sure... > > > >>> (you "advocates" don't mind idiotic posts like this, do you? You sure >>> don't mind when they're made by that babbling liar 7). >>> >> Oracle is Linux company, too, and they are doing rather well. > > Oracle is a proprietary RDBMS company. They make their money selling > proprietary closed-source database products. > And IBM isn't? On 10/3/14 4:32 PM, DFS wrote: > IBM (a Linux company) market cap: > > Mar 8 2013: $235B...

Inconsistency between os.getgroups and os.system('groups') after os.setgroups()
Run this test program as root: import os print "before:", os.getgroups() os.system("groups") os.setgroups([]) print "after:", os.getgroups() os.system("groups") After the os.setgroups, os.getgroups says that the process is not in any gr= oups, just as you would expect. However the groups command run using os.sy= stem says that the process is in the root group. It appears that the new p= rocess started by os.system augments the group membership specified in the = os.setgroups command with the group of the actual user of the original proc= ess (which is root). I can suppress membership in the root group only by d= oing os.setgid and os.setuid before the os.system call (in which case I win= d up in the group of the new user instead of root), but I have to be able t= o get back to root privilege so I can't use setgid and setuid. How do I ru= n a program from a Python script running as root such that the group member= ship of the process running the program does not include root? Am 25.03.2012 23:32, schrieb jeff: > After the os.setgroups, os.getgroups says that the process is not in > any groups, just as you would expect... I can suppress > membership in the root group only by doing os.setgid and os.setuid > before the os.system call (in which case I wind up in the group of > the > new user instead of root), but I have to be able to get back to root > privilege so I can't use setgid and setuid. Simply ...

Install OS X from OS 9.2 and OS X .dmg files
Hi, I have : * the 3 disk images .dmg "Mac OS X 10.3 Panther final install disk 1", 2 and 3 retrieved from the 'chocolate' network (Gnutella), * an iMac with Mac OS 9.2, * a CD-RW drive with HotBurn (Iomega). What would you suggest me to do now to boot my iMac with Panther? Which pieces of the puzzle do I miss? TIA Fr�d�ric tomcat <noone@nodomain.int> wrote: > What would you suggest me to do now to boot my iMac with Panther? Buy the CDs. > Which pieces of the puzzle do I miss? Integrity. -- Mike Rosenberg <http://www.macconsult.co...

Which Linux OS
We would like to do some initial investigation of Oracle on Linux? Is there is a Free / low cost version of Linux that I can use for my eval, or must I purchase the Redhat Enterprise AS? Thanx, Gerald S. wrote: > We would like to do some initial investigation of Oracle on Linux? > > Is there is a Free / low cost version of Linux that I can use for my eval, > or must I purchase the Redhat Enterprise AS? > > Thanx, > > I've found Debian works well for testing, esp. considering that it's for testing, and not production (no support). Bricklen wrote: > Gerald S. wrote: > >> We would like to do some initial investigation of Oracle on Linux? >> >> Is there is a Free / low cost version of Linux that I can use for my >> eval, >> or must I purchase the Redhat Enterprise AS? >> >> Thanx, >> >> > I've found Debian works well for testing, esp. considering that it's for > testing, and not production (no support). Bricklen, if you've got any tips for installing onto Debian, I'd love to hear them. (Actually, I'd quite like a CD set of Debian, too, while you're at it!!). Best Regards HJR On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:23:44 +0000, Gerald S. banged his/her head on the keyboard and created this message for all mankind/womankind: > We would like to do some initial investigation of Oracle on Linux? > > Is there is a Free / low cost version of Linux that...

os.pipe() + os.fork()
--Sig_/DfRt9Dxw+_.=lNFY4dG045U Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have a problem using os.pipe() together with os.fork(). Usually when the writing end of the pipe is closed, the reading end gets EOF. So subsequent attempts to read data will return an empty string. But when you call os.fork() after you have created a pipe using os.pipe(), and read data from the pipe in the child process, when the partent process has already closed the writing end, the reading end does not get EOF. Instead of the os.read() call in the child process is b...

IBM To Offer New Point-of-sale OS From SUSE Linux
The new operating system is based on SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and will be compatible with IBM's SurePOS cash register machines, eServers and middleware. http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,88865,00.html?nlid=AM -- A fatal exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C000BD1D in VXD VMM(01) + 0000AD1D. The current application will be terminated. On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:34:14 GMT, alw <alw@LinuxRules.com> wrote: > >The new operating system is based on SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and >will be compatible with IBM's SurePOS cash register machines, eServers >and middleware. > >http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,88865,00.html?nlid=AM Really? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/message/52277 ARMONK, N.Y., Jan 8, 2004 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- IBM today announced that it has received a "Wells Notice" from the staff of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) in connection with the SEC's investigation of a customer of IBM's Retail Stores Solutions unit, which sells point-of-sale products. IBM disclosed the existence of this investigation on June 2, 2003. The IBM customer that is the subject of this investigation is Dollar General Corporation. It is IBM's understanding that an IBM employee in its Sales and Distribution unit has also received a Wells Notice from the SEC in connection with this matter. The Wells Notice notifies IBM that the SEC staff is considering recommending that the SEC bring a c...

linux os
Hi all, is anyone actually running Radius server? Is it difficult to set it up? T ...

[News] New GNU/Linux Distros: blackPanther OS 10.1 and Zorin OS 2.0 Released
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 blackPanther OS 10.1 http://www.blackpanther.hu/ Zorin OS 2.0 video released ,----[ Quote ] | If you're interested in Zorin OS 2.0 then | you'll be interested to see the first video | of it. Head over to the Videos page on this | site view it. | | Also as a quick reminder, Zorin OS 2.0 will | be availible on the 1st of January, that's | less than a week! `---- http://zorin-os.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/2434137-zorin-os-2-0-video-released Recent: Torvalds rejects one-size-fits-all Linux ,----[ Quote ] | Linus Torvalds has rejected the argument that Linux developers should pool | their resources behind a single distribution. `---- http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246534/torvalds-rejects-onesizefitsall-linux.html Fragmentation good for the user, says Nokia ,----[ Quote ] | Fragmentation within mobile platforms helps handset manufacturers | and software developers to properly address customers' needs, a | senior Nokia executive has said. `---- http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10013788o-2000331761b,00.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAks/9eAACgkQU4xAY3RXLo6dIgCgl+fAFmr/M9S8qIOxFSk7vowV Mb0An1J70hjkZdYkhXltDLxoN+kiRLOq =fL86 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ...

Free hacking tools (Windows/Linux/OS X/Palm)
Learn how to hack everything. You can hack websites instantly, hack coke machines, ATM's, and computers. Just run Ubersite.pl and know that we are the future of media. www.ubersite.com the future of media please come we need hits > please come we need hits Given the awful layout of your site, I would suggest the hits should be to your head with a copy of 'Web Page Design for Beginners' On 30 Apr 2008 I stormed the castle called alt.2600 and heard erewhon cry out in news:NpidneDBuYvhgYXVnZ2dnUVZ8tmhnZ2d@bt.com... >> please come we need hits > > Given the awful layout of your site, I would suggest the hits should > be to your head with a copy of 'Web Page Design for Beginners' > > > lol did he at least have a copy of valuehack up there? -- ThePsyko Public Enemy #7 **Pissing off the planet, one person at a time** On 30 Apr 2008 I stormed the castle called alt.2600 and heard Chris Davies cry out in news:be6ne5xabj.ln2@news.roaima.co.uk... > erewhon <erewhon@nowhere.net> wrote: >> Given the awful layout of your site, I would suggest the hits should >> be to your head with a copy of 'Web Page Design for Beginners' > > Personally I can recommend "Don't make me think", which is along the > lines of good web design. > > Chris > oddly... "Teenage Lobotomy" by the Ramones just popped on as I looked at his post lol -- ThePsyko Public ...

Web resources about - IBM is only in it for a free OS - comp.os.linux.advocacy

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Resources last updated: 3/29/2016 2:57:13 PM