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Linux borrowed optimizations from Windows says Micros~1

No Longhorn at Microsoft's Tech Ed
Joris Evers May 19 2004 San Francisco

[...]

The absence of Longhorn at Tech Ed is a sign that Microsoft is getting
back to what matters for its customers and itself, said Joe Wilcox, a
senior analyst at Jupiter Research in Washington, D.C.

[...]

Tech Ed goers can also hear from Microsoft where it stands on Linux. One
session promises a side-by-side comparison of the Windows and Linux
kernel over the past few years. In the session calendar, Microsoft says
Linux has become more like Windows as Linux developers have "borrowed"
some Windows high performance optimizations ...

- http://www.itworld.com/Man/3828/040519teched/
0
daeron2 (1670)
5/20/2004 9:39:39 PM
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Daeron wrote:

> No Longhorn at Microsoft's Tech Ed
> Joris Evers May 19 2004 San Francisco
> 
> [...]
> 
> The absence of Longhorn at Tech Ed is a sign that Microsoft is getting
> back to what matters for its customers and itself, said Joe Wilcox, a
> senior analyst at Jupiter Research in Washington, D.C.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Tech Ed goers can also hear from Microsoft where it stands on Linux. One
> session promises a side-by-side comparison of the Windows and Linux
> kernel over the past few years. In the session calendar, Microsoft says
> Linux has become more like Windows as Linux developers have "borrowed"
> some Windows high performance optimizations ...
> 
> - http://www.itworld.com/Man/3828/040519teched/

Can't really be. Windows gets slower and slower with each new release, and
without new hardware you're SOL.
Linux gets faster and faster (look at kernel 2.6 and KDE3.2, which are
faster than the versions before)

So no, linux does not borrow these "high performance optimizations"
-- 
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
        If it starts working, we'll fix it.  Pronto.

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
5/20/2004 11:08:49 PM
On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:39:39 +0100, Daeron wrote:

> No Longhorn at Microsoft's Tech Ed
> Joris Evers May 19 2004 San Francisco
> 
> [...]
> 
> The absence of Longhorn at Tech Ed is a sign that Microsoft is getting
> back to what matters for its customers and itself, said Joe Wilcox, a
> senior analyst at Jupiter Research in Washington, D.C.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Tech Ed goers can also hear from Microsoft where it stands on Linux. One
> session promises a side-by-side comparison of the Windows and Linux
> kernel over the past few years. In the session calendar, Microsoft says
> Linux has become more like Windows as Linux developers have "borrowed"
> some Windows high performance optimizations ...
> 
> - http://www.itworld.com/Man/3828/040519teched/

As I said... NT had O(1) scheduling before it was even a twinkle in Ingo
Molnar's eye.
-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
0
5/21/2004 7:53:30 AM
The Lurking Horror (Milo T., Simon Cooke, too ashamed of himself to post
under his own name) wrote:

> On Thu, 20 May 2004 22:39:39 +0100, Daeron wrote:
> 
>> No Longhorn at Microsoft's Tech Ed
>> Joris Evers May 19 2004 San Francisco
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> The absence of Longhorn at Tech Ed is a sign that Microsoft is getting
>> back to what matters for its customers and itself, said Joe Wilcox, a
>> senior analyst at Jupiter Research in Washington, D.C.
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> Tech Ed goers can also hear from Microsoft where it stands on Linux. One
>> session promises a side-by-side comparison of the Windows and Linux
>> kernel over the past few years. In the session calendar, Microsoft says
>> Linux has become more like Windows as Linux developers have "borrowed"
>> some Windows high performance optimizations ...
>> 
>> - http://www.itworld.com/Man/3828/040519teched/
> 
> As I said... NT had O(1) scheduling before it was even a twinkle in Ingo
> Molnar's eye.

So you say. Without ever providing any proof, besides your (quite
meaningless) assertion
-- 
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore
perseverare.  [Cicero, Philippica 12, 2]

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
5/21/2004 10:18:03 AM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:

> The Lurking Horror (Milo T., Simon Cooke, too ashamed of himself to post
> under his own name) wrote:
> 
>> As I said... NT had O(1) scheduling before it was even a twinkle in Ingo
>> Molnar's eye.
>
> So you say. Without ever providing any proof, besides your (quite
> meaningless) assertion

True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they were
actually O(N), if I recall correctly.

-- 
Free as in freedom
0
iso
5/21/2004 2:07:54 PM
On Fri, 21 May 2004 09:07:54 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
> 
>> The Lurking Horror (Milo T., Simon Cooke, too ashamed of himself to post
>> under his own name) wrote:
>> 
>>> As I said... NT had O(1) scheduling before it was even a twinkle in Ingo
>>> Molnar's eye.
>>
>> So you say. Without ever providing any proof, besides your (quite
>> meaningless) assertion
> 
> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they were
> actually O(N), if I recall correctly.

No, they were O(1).
http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif
-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
0
Simon
5/21/2004 4:07:38 PM
The Lurking Horror (Milo T., Simon Cooke, too ashamed of himself to post
under his own name) wrote:

> On Fri, 21 May 2004 09:07:54 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:
> 
>> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
>> 
>>> The Lurking Horror (Milo T., Simon Cooke, too ashamed of himself to post
>>> under his own name) wrote:
>>> 
>>>> As I said... NT had O(1) scheduling before it was even a twinkle in
>>>> Ingo Molnar's eye.
>>>
>>> So you say. Without ever providing any proof, besides your (quite
>>> meaningless) assertion
>> 
>> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they
>> were actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
> 
> No, they were O(1).
> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif

Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing

In other words: I think you dug out your drawing app of choice and used some
creativity

You *are* aware that this diagram proves nothing? Not the slightest little
bit, since *you* provided it

Provide something from other sources or admit that you just made it up
-- 
Warning: You have moved the mouse. 
Windows will reboot now to make the change permanent

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
5/21/2004 4:19:52 PM
Peter K�hlmann wrote:

> Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing
> 
> In other words: I think you dug out your drawing app of choice and used
> some creativity
> 
> You *are* aware that this diagram proves nothing? Not the slightest little
> bit, since *you* provided it
> 
> Provide something from other sources or admit that you just made it up

Simon needs to relax and try our breakfast sampler:

Talk about good tastes! Two eggs any style, two bacon strips, two pork
sausage links, two ham strips, hash browns and two fluffy buttermilk
pancakes

Yummy !

http://ihop.com/menu0.html#signature
0
ihop1 (23)
5/21/2004 4:41:50 PM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:

>>> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they
>>> were actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
>> 
>> No, they were O(1).
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif
>
> Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing

I'll believe code before I'll believe a diagram without any buttressing
information such as dates, kernel versions, test methodology, definitions,
and... code.

-- 
Free as in freedom
0
iso
5/21/2004 6:01:33 PM
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Lin�nut
<lin�nut@bone.com>
 wrote
on Fri, 21 May 2004 09:07:54 -0500
<uYadnfmOgc2nkDPdRVn-gw@comcast.com>:
> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
>
>> The Lurking Horror (Milo T., Simon Cooke, too ashamed of himself to post
>> under his own name) wrote:
>> 
>>> As I said... NT had O(1) scheduling before it was even a twinkle in Ingo
>>> Molnar's eye.
>>
>> So you say. Without ever providing any proof, besides your (quite
>> meaningless) assertion
>
> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they were
> actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
>

As it is, this sounds like a tempest in a teapot, but it
may depend on how one precisely characterizes the problem.

I can see an O(log N) algorithm easily enough, though;
if one models each process as a sortable object (the sort
key is the priority) and maintain a set or map with a
red-black tree (similar to C++/STL's std::map, or Java's
java.util.TreeMap()), one gets O(log N).

(Note that a static hash table with linked lists is
actually O(N), since all one's done with the hash is modify
the constant factor.  Dynamic hash tables may approach
O(log N); the resizing of the hash table introduces an
allocation component and a copy component, both of which
are O(N) if done well -- but that's slightly misleading as
the reallocation is only done log N times as one creates
N processes.  Total: O(N log N), per process O(log N).)

To do better than that may require some work, especially
with dynamic reprioritization -- if one ignores
priorities entirely, O(1) is easy: just shove things into
doubly-linked lists, one per resource.  (It worked for the
Amiga. :-) ) However, I fail to see why that would be all
that much an improvement over something along the lines of
prereading a disk cylinder (as opposed to a single sector)
or optimizing disk head seeks.

After all, a context switch takes at most a few microseconds,
as opposed to a 3-4 ms head seek.  10,000 RPM = 6 ms;
rotational latency therefore is 3 ms.

That's a lot of context switches.

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
0
ewill4 (1430)
5/21/2004 7:59:35 PM
On Fri, 21 May 2004 13:01:33 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
> 
>>>> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they
>>>> were actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
>>> 
>>> No, they were O(1).
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif
>>
>> Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing
> 
> I'll believe code before I'll believe a diagram without any buttressing
> information such as dates, kernel versions, test methodology, definitions,
> and... code.

http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/BenchmarkThread.zip

Note: This code remains my copyright. Read the copyright notice in
copyright.txt in the archive.
-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
0
Simon
5/21/2004 10:41:29 PM
Simon Cooke wrote:

> On Fri, 21 May 2004 13:01:33 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:
> 
>> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
>> 
>>>>> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they
>>>>> were actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
>>>> 
>>>> No, they were O(1).
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif
>>>
>>> Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing
>> 
>> I'll believe code before I'll believe a diagram without any buttressing
>> information such as dates, kernel versions, test methodology,
>> definitions, and... code.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/BenchmarkThread.zip
> 
> Note: This code remains my copyright. Read the copyright notice in
> copyright.txt in the archive.

So now Simon provides self-grown code in addition to self-falsified diagrams
Convincing, really
-- 
I doubt, therefore I might be.

0
Peter.Koehlmann (13228)
5/21/2004 10:55:37 PM
Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:

>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/BenchmarkThread.zip

Not quite the code I meant, but it does look like it could generate
a set of data to graph.  I would like to look more closely at it, as
I can't understand the details in a quick read.

(I do note, however, the prototypical wrapper for critical sections.
This wrapper is too simplistic for general use, as you really need
to keep track of how many threads are currently waiting on the
critical section, and wait for them all to finish, before you delete
it.  But that's just an asside (sic) from me.)

>> Note: This code remains my copyright. Read the copyright notice in
>> copyright.txt in the archive.

Sure thing, I'll respect your copyright.

> So now Simon provides self-grown code in addition to self-falsified diagrams
> Convincing, really

To really verify Simon's claim (given that the code tests exactly what he
claims, which I think it probably does), I'm going to have to see if I can
dredge up an old copy of Win NT 3.5 (that's the earliest version we ever used,
unfortunately) and run the test on that.

It'll be awhile before I get to it.

I do have this to say about the code: it is very readable, and he doesn't use
that goddam Hungarian notation.

-- 
Free as in freedom
0
iso
5/22/2004 1:51:03 AM
On Fri, 21 May 2004 20:51:03 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:

> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
> 
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/BenchmarkThread.zip
> 
> Not quite the code I meant, but it does look like it could generate
> a set of data to graph.  I would like to look more closely at it, as
> I can't understand the details in a quick read.

Specifically, what it does is this:

Creation Phase:
It spawns a number of threads, and each of them sits in a spinlock until
all the threads have been spawned.

At this point, the spinlock is released, allowing all of the threads to
switch into the benchmark phase.

Benchmark Phase:
A given number of context switches are performed (I think I do 10,000). The
way this works is this:

Each thread grabs a single critical section. The current time is measured,
and the total time taken is increased by the difference between the current
time and the last context-switch timestamp. The critical section is then
unlocked, and a new context-switch timestamp is taken.

Then, the thread yields its timeslice to other threads waiting to run
(meaning that it won't run again until all of the other threads in the
process have run).

Because all threads use the same timestamps (protected by the critical
section), the time measurement is that of the time taken to switch from one
thread to another (plus the time necessary to lock and unlock the critical
section, and the sleep).

> (I do note, however, the prototypical wrapper for critical sections.
> This wrapper is too simplistic for general use, as you really need
> to keep track of how many threads are currently waiting on the
> critical section, and wait for them all to finish, before you delete
> it.  But that's just an asside (sic) from me.)

Well, like most of my framework code, there are assumptions not in the code
itself - such as that the owner of the object that the critical section is
protecting handles setup/teardown of the critical section when the object
is created/destroyed. It's not meant to be robust for all uses - just for
one specific coding style.

>>> Note: This code remains my copyright. Read the copyright notice in
>>> copyright.txt in the archive.
> 
> Sure thing, I'll respect your copyright.
> 
>> So now Simon provides self-grown code in addition to self-falsified diagrams
>> Convincing, really
> 
> To really verify Simon's claim (given that the code tests exactly what he
> claims, which I think it probably does), I'm going to have to see if I can
> dredge up an old copy of Win NT 3.5 (that's the earliest version we ever used,
> unfortunately) and run the test on that.

Try it on all of them. The graph I published was from XP.

> It'll be awhile before I get to it.
> 
> I do have this to say about the code: it is very readable, and he doesn't use
> that goddam Hungarian notation.

Thanks. BTW, I do use Hungarian - but only a subset thereof.

m_ for member variables.
p for pointers.
b for bools.
I for interfaces.
C for classes which carry implementation.
But that's about it.

-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
0
Simon
5/22/2004 3:44:59 AM
On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:41:29 GMT, Simon Cooke wrote:

> On Fri, 21 May 2004 13:01:33 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:
> 
>> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter K�hlmann:
>> 
>>>>> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but they
>>>>> were actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
>>>> 
>>>> No, they were O(1).
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif
>>>
>>> Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing
>> 
>> I'll believe code before I'll believe a diagram without any buttressing
>> information such as dates, kernel versions, test methodology, definitions,
>> and... code.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/BenchmarkThread.zip
> 
> Note: This code remains my copyright. Read the copyright notice in
> copyright.txt in the archive.

I see that no-one has disputed my claims with some actual data. So shall I
take it that you accept them? Or do you want me to post my excel
spreadsheet with that data?

BTW: Linonut: if you compile the code, make sure that the #define at the
top is set to 10,000 not 1,000.
-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
0
Simon
5/24/2004 1:57:07 AM
On Mon, 24 May 2004 02:46:29 GMT, Simon Cooke Sucks Cock wrote:

> Simon Cooke wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:41:29 GMT, Simon Cooke wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 21 May 2004 13:01:33 -0500, Lin�nut wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Peter
>>>> K�hlmann: 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> True.  He showed us code snippets that purported to be O(1), but
>>>>>>> they were actually O(N), if I recall correctly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, they were O(1).
>>>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/switchonlytest.gif
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nothing beats a self grown diagram, Simon. Nothing
>>>> 
>>>> I'll believe code before I'll believe a diagram without any
>>>> buttressing information such as dates, kernel versions, test
>>>> methodology, definitions, and... code.
>>> 
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~simoncooke/BenchmarkThread.zip
>>> 
>>> Note: This code remains my copyright. Read the copyright notice in
>>> copyright.txt in the archive.
>> 
>> I see that no-one has disputed my claims with some actual data. So
>> shall I take it that you accept them? Or do you want me to post my
>> excel spreadsheet with that data?
> 
> Two reasons:
> 
> 1- your code does not prove Windows has an O(1) scheduler

Yes, it does. If you could actually understand how to code, you would
understand why it does exactly what I say it does.

> 2- nobody gives a shit

Apparently they gave enough of a shit to ask me for proof, dumbass.

> The code mentioned above by Peter above is Windows Kernel
> code, which nobody will ever see in the near future, not some 
> homemade test.

Oh shut up you fool. The benchmark is all the evidence anyone needs - it
proves EXACTLY what was asked. And you're a moron for thinking otherwise.

But hey, what should I expect from a (typical) Linux user without a brain
or conscience.
-- 
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
0
Simon
5/24/2004 4:34:27 AM
Simon Cooke wrote:

> Oh shut up you fool. The benchmark is all the evidence anyone needs - it
> proves EXACTLY what was asked. And you're a moron for thinking otherwise.
> 
> But hey, what should I expect from a (typical) Linux user without a brain
> or conscience.

"They all laughed at me at the academy!!! But my *BENCHMARK* will /show/
them all !!"



-- 
Bush-W-4
0
Jango
5/24/2004 4:50:23 AM
Daeron <daeron@demon.net> wrote in message news:<2h4msuF93tu1U1@uni-berlin.de>...
> No Longhorn at Microsoft's Tech Ed
> Joris Evers May 19 2004 San Francisco
> 
> [...]
> 
> The absence of Longhorn at Tech Ed is a sign that Microsoft is getting
> back to what matters for its customers and itself, said Joe Wilcox, a
> senior analyst at Jupiter Research in Washington, D.C.

Microsoft has three very serious problems.  Number one, it doesn't
really have a "cash cow" to assure this year's revenue.  Longhorn has
gone the route of Windows NT 3.x - pure vaporware being used illegally
to try and convince people not to purchase a superior product
available today (64 bit Linux).

Microsoft has no 64 bit Workstation product, and SuSE has one on store
shelves today.  Again, Linux wins the coup, but Microsoft dupes it's
minions into waiting for "the next release".

At this point, Microsoft is trying to increase it's revenue by getting
more $$ in "support" revenue for Office from those who are still using
it, to make up for the revenue lost from those who have switched to
StarOffice, OpenOffice, or KDEOffice.

> [...]
> 
> Tech Ed goers can also hear from Microsoft where it stands on Linux. One
> session promises a side-by-side comparison of the Windows and Linux
> kernel over the past few years. In the session calendar, Microsoft says
> Linux has become more like Windows as Linux developers have "borrowed"
> some Windows high performance optimizations ...

Sounds a bit like the Daryl McBride brand of stock manipulation.  I
suppose Microsoft is going to trot out the BSD, NCSA, and pirated GPL
code, and claim that Linux hackers "stole" this code from Microsoft. 
The fact that Microsoft never paid a cent to the original authors, and
grossly underpaid the government agencies entrusted with these open
source archives, they have a lot of nerve trying to claim that
ANYTHING on Linux was "stolen" from Microsoft.


> - http://www.itworld.com/Man/3828/040519teched/

This is coal calling the kettle black.
0
r.e.ballard (1110)
5/27/2004 8:19:37 PM
Reply:

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To the denizens of comp.os.linux.advocacy! So many people demonstrate in this newsgroup that they know only a Linux of Hatred and Greed, of paranoia, and of a selfish sense of entitlement. They seem always to be behaving like monkeys in reaction to human dissenters, throwing feces at one another and beating their chests pretending to know something. My Linux is not that Linux. My Linux is the Linux of Love, of sharing, friendship, community. It is a uniquely human Linux and not one for monkeys. When I speak with fellow Linux users in real life (i.e. not in the monkeyhouse of COLA) they remind me of myself: practical, freedom-loving, anti-corporate. Here in COLA however they remind me of monkeys or spoiled brats or worse, corporate sysadmins. My Linux is not your Linux. It is the human Linux that acknowledges that Linux involves human work to create, that although it is free you are not entitled to it, that although it is created in large part by volunteers, they deserve to be paid for their gifts with at least gratitude. And that monkeys and self-entitled brats and sysadmins never thank anyone. yarmfelder@yahoo.com writes: > To the denizens of comp.os.linux.advocacy! You crossposted to gnu.misc.discuss. > My Linux is not your Linux. It is the human Linux > that acknowledges that Linux involves human work > to create, that although it is free you are not > entitled to it, that although it is created in large part > by volunteers, they deserve to be pa...

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Reimagining The Desktop ,----[ Quote ] | KDE 4.1 goes a long way to solving that dilemma. `---- http://www.northdavisroad.net/2008/08/reimagining-the-desktop/ Linux should remain Linux ,----[ Quote ] | I disagree that Linux should concentrate on running native Windows apps. This | is exactly the opposite of what the community should be doing. If you notice | more and more companies are working to make Linux their base rather than | Windows. This frees them of paying tax to MS and stops MS from beating their | products with tighter Windows...

[News] [Linux] Man Chooses Linux Over Mac OS X, Windows
Which OS for Ruby on Rails development? ,----[ Quote ] | I've had experience using Linux servers (no GUIs), so I figured I | could always drop back to the command line if something broke and | I've had to once or twice during installations. But overall I have | been pleasantly surprised at how civil an experience it has been. `---- http://falkayn.blogspot.com/2007/05/which-os-for-ruby-on-rails-development.html ...

OS Share: Linux 91%, Windows 1%
http://www.top500.org/stats/list/35/osfam On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), nessuno <nessuno7491@gmail.com> wrote: > http://www.top500.org/stats/list/35/osfam Idiot that's supercomputers. Why must you hype and spin it? I thought you had something there -- you don't. -- posted with a Droid "Big Steel 99 the X factor Droid" <fake@fakeemail.com> wrote in message news:almarsoft.5056903620896247350@news.east.EarthLink.net... > On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), nessuno <nessuno7491@gmail.com> > wrote: >> http://www.top500.org/stats/list/35/osfam > > Idiot that's supercomputers. Why must you hype and spin it? I thought you > had something there -- you don't. > > -- > posted with a Droid Everyone would agree that purely for counting clock cycles Linux is pretty good. But for doing something useful such as running Microsoft Office or Photoshop Linux is totally useless. Of the approximately 18,500 Linux installations in the world, no two of them are the same. There are no standards and they are not compatible with any hardware beyond a keyboard. Linux was a nice try at an operating system but it missed badly in real world usage. "RickyBobby" <nascar42@cox.net> wrote in message news:s7OdnTQT8rLzdyzRnZ2dnUVZ5hWdnZ2d@giganews.com... > > > "Big Steel 99 the X factor Droid" <fake@fakeemail.com> wrote in message > news:alma...

Lowering The Boom on False Linux Advocacy. Was Nvidia. Was Linux vs Windows 7.
Zealots and cults are bad no matter what their cause may be. They do little to further the acceptance of their POV and in fact tend to do harm to the legitimate portions of the cause. All cults and thus the zealots that comprise them are based in some form of truth and reality. The cult of Linux is no different in this matter. One thing about a cult and the cultists themselves is that it is generally trivial for lucid people to expose them for what they really are. In the case of the Linux cult, the misguided people who believe they are edifying Linux are easy to expose. I posted a factual message, backed up by screen shots, demonstrating a defect in Linux, specifically Ubuntu and kUbuntu but not limited to those distributions. The effect was already a known factor and the Linux cultists did not disappoint at all. They swarmed the enemy, me, with their own form of misguided lies, IOW using the Intel driver, or using the Display configuration utility, without even bothering to read the message or look at the screen shots where it was plainly obvious I was not talking about Intel nor did the Display application even recognize that 2 monitors was installed so that was a lost cause. Then we have the "you didn't enable xinerama" as if this has anything to do with the problem. Hint: the nvidia settings program works fine. It just won't parse and properly update the xorg file so the correctly working twinview will not survive a re-boot. This i...

Reports on Linux with mono 1.1.1 and Windows .NET
What do you suggest? Thanks. ...

Linux not really our competitor says Micros~1 exec
Microsoft executive on Linux, 64-bit computing Carol Sliwa and Craig Stedman May 18 2004 Q: How is Microsoft differentiating itself from the Linux competition? I don't really think that Linux itself is our competitor. I think Linux is a set of technologies ..They put them together, stacks with other software .. The cost of acquiring that is actually quite comparable to the cost of acquiring a Microsoft solution. We .. do a better job of providing an integrated experience for the customer relative to our competitors. ... Some of our competitors, IBM most notably, are predominantly a consulting company. And for them, complexity is a benefit, because it allows them to sell consulting services .. ... I think if you look at Linux and Linux stacks and the companies that are promoting those, they have a vested interest in selling consulting services. We don't. It's that simple .. ... There are users running Linux that don't rely on consulting services. There are workloads that are simple that can be deployed independently, ... we also do a better job of integrating. For example, our DNS server integrates with Active Directory. ... Application migration off of Unix is one where certainly Linux has some traction .. ... You've got an old printer .. the manufacturer stopped selling three years ago ..The manufacturer (has little incentive) to put out a driver for that printer. [Bob Muglia - Microsoft] http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=606261041&...

[News] Linux, Unlike Windows, Runs Both Linux and Windows Programs
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So you want to run windows programs on Linux? ,----[ Quote ] | My point of view in this matter is quite simple. If you wish to run windows | programs then use windows. If you wish to run Linux and windows programs then | either use an emulator, wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) or a virtual machine. | If none of those solutions are suitable then stop thinking about using Linux. | Stop complaining that you will use Linux if only it could run this program. | Either use the operating system the program was designed for or use an | alternative program designed for the operating system you wish to use. | | [...] | | Just because windows programs do not work on Linux does not mean that it is | not ready for the desktop. Under normal usage Linux has no problems and is | much better than windows in many ways. Wanting to run a different operating | systems programs under Linux can in no way shape or form be considered normal | usage. `---- http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/so-you-want-to-run-windows-programs-on-linux-30372 Wine might have better Windows compatibility than Vista. Recent: The Wine development release 1.1.16 is now available. ,----[ Quote ] | What's new in this release (see below for details): |   - Improved SANE scanner support. |   - Support for digital CD audio playback. |   - Improved cookies management in Wininet. |   - Support for building stand-alone 16-bit modules...

Another Blow To The So Called Linux Security
Read it and weep, Linux losers. http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105_2-5162348.html An analysis of hacker attacks on online servers in January by UK-based security consultancy mi2g found that Linux servers were the most frequently hit, accounting for 13,654 successful attacks, or 80 percent of the survey total. Windows came in a distant second with 2,005 attacks. A detailed analysis of government servers also found Linux to be more susceptible, accounting for 57 percent of all security breaches. On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:13:40 +0000, Dr Alw is a loser wrote: > Read it and weep, Linux losers. > > > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105_2-5162348.html > > An analysis of hacker attacks on online servers in January by UK-based > security consultancy mi2g found that Linux servers were the most > frequently hit *Yawn* At least come up with something that hasn't already been smacked down. -- Powered by Mandrake Linux Registered Linux user 337927 - http://counter.li.org/ On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:13:40 GMT, "Dr Alw is a loser" <dralw@sucks.dicks> wrote: >An analysis of hacker attacks on online servers in January by UK-based >security consultancy mi2g found that Linux servers were the most >frequently hit, accounting for 13,654 successful attacks, or 80 percent >of the survey total. Windows came in a distant second with 2,005 >attacks. > >A detailed analysis of government servers also found Linux to be more >...

File transfer / sharing between embedded linux version 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux)
Hi, I am trying to share / transfer files between embedded linux version 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux). What is the best way to achieve this ? Thanks in advance for your time & help. Regards Ram On Jul 11, 8:44 am, ramson...@gmail.com wrote: > I am trying to share / transfer files between embedded linux version > 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux). What is the best way to > achieve this ? Samba is a set of tools that lets linux be a client and/or server of windows (smb) file sharing. If your linux system has the resources, that would be very transparent once configured. If your linux system is very small, you can get a tftp client & server for windows, but that's mostly for transfering one file at a time. You could also put an NFS share on the linux system and get and NFS client for windows, or run a normal FTP client, or build in a web server... And I'm sure there are a dozen other methods. But Samba if you can support it, and tftp for moving occasional files, are good common choices. Incidentally, you may also want to look at installing the cygwin environment on the windows machine, to let you more easily deal with unix type files and tasks. On Jul 11, 9:44 am, ramson...@gmail.com wrote: > I am trying to share / transfer files between embedded linux version > 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux). What is the best way to > achieve this ? The "right" choice depends on the application. If this devic...

File transfer / sharing between embedded linux version 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux)
Hi, I am trying to share / transfer files between embedded linux version 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux). What is the best way to achieve this ? Thanks in advance for your time & help. Regards Ram <ramsonney@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1184161595.496086.263480@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > Hi, > > I am trying to share / transfer files between embedded linux version > 2.6.8.1 and desktops (windows or linux). What is the best way to > achieve this ? > > Thanks in advance for your time & help. Regards > > Ram &g...

linux today
bawawawa!!!! linux. I hate it already!!!! http://fr.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2010081101435OSMR The consistent failure of Linux to grab even 1% of the desktop OS market Aug 11, 2010 "Linux has been around for almost two decades now. It has become a resounding success as a server OS (for example as the L in the famous LAMP stack), and more recently as a mobile OS (Android). But what about on the desktop? "Linux enthusiasts have been predicting the rise of Linux as a desktop OS for the better part of a decade. To name just one of many examples, in 2003, Siemens Business Systems predicted that Linux would have captured 20% of the desktop market by 2008. "Well, it's now 2010, and desktop Linux isn't even close to 20%. Or one tenth of that." On 2010-10-10, One Shot, One-Kill <fredie@gmail.com> wrote: One snot, one shill wanks on about the shrinking "desktop market"... Who the fuck cares about "the desktop"? Oh, I know ....WINTROLLS... Is there even a desktop "market" any more? Linux is EVERYWHERE! It's on your router..it's in your TV it's on your phone... -- Regards, Gregory. Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power On 10 Oct 2010 05:36:07 GMT, Gregory Shearman <ZekeGregory@netscape.net> wrote: > One snot, one shill wanks on about the shrinking "desktop market"... > Who the fuck cares about "the desktop"? What a total joke he ...

[News] [Linux] Red Hat Emphasises That Linux Should Not Be Like Windows, Look at RHEL 5.1, 5.2
Red Hat Shuns 'Windows Clone' Model for Global Desktop Discussion at PhysOrgForum ,----[ Quote ] | While the desktop is not another "Windows clone, it is also not a new | desktop environment as it is based on RHEL Desktop 5. The key for us | was getting the feature set these customers wanted, and then getting | it into the channel for distribution," he said. | | [...] | | | Riveros said that the new desktop will help democratize technology, | which is why the initial focus is on delivering it to emerging markets. | "We want to see wide adoption of Linux desktops ar...

[News] A Look at GNU/Linux Distributions Igelle 1.0.0, Zenwalk Linux, Salix OS, and GoblinX
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Distro Hoppin`: Igelle 1.0.0 ,----[ Quote ] | Hey, people! Welcome to a brand new | installment of the Distro Hoppin` series! | I bet you've been waiting for this a long | time! Actually I KNOW you've been waiting | for this a long time. Not because you were | anxiously craving for my writing or | anything, but because it's been a friggin` | long time since the last hop. Be ashamed | of yourself, Danny. Promising to write a | post more often than once in a blue moon | and going ahead to extend that period to | once in an ice age... Tsk, tsk, tsk. OK, | insert puppy eyes here and let's move on. | I DON'T NEED YOUR FORGIVENESS! `---- http://www.itlure.com/2010/02/distro-hoppin-igelle-100.html Desktop comparison - Zenwalk Linux, Salix OS and GoblinX ,----[ Quote ] | I love them all, each in their own way, | but the purpose was to compare and find a | winner if you want an easy life at home | and just something that works without much | hassle, and I'm not going to cop out now. | Xfce is a fast and potent environment that | I believe can meet most people's needs, | but it does not achieve its full potential | in most distributions due to the | underlying base. However in a well-done | distro you won't need any other | environment for your daily computing and | benefit from a considerable speed gain. `---- http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20100301#feature ArchBang 2...

suprise: Micros~1 sponsored study finds Windows more secure than Linux
Study finds Windows more secure than Linux Brier Dudley Feb 17 2005 San Francisco - Believe it or not, a Windows Web server is more secure than a similarly set-up Linux server, according to a study presented yesterday by two Florida researchers. ... One of them, a Linux fan, runs an open-source server at home; .. [I've noted this before where micros~1 is now hiring on alleged Linux advocates to trash Linux in public. Presumably this kind of `research' is more effective than the fast.Facts site. "We need a real factual comparison here," said Herbert Thompson, the other re...

Trouble Installing Linux/Cisco VPN Client Has anyone had trouble compiling the linux cisco vpn client? Here is the output of the install script: # uname -rviosm Linux 2.4.22-1.2188.nptl #1
Has anyone had trouble compiling the linux cisco vpn client? Here is the output of the install script: # uname -rviosm Linux 2.4.22-1.2188.nptl #1 Wed Apr 21 20:19:18 EDT 2004 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux ../vpn_install Cisco Systems VPN Client Version 4.0.3 (B) Linux Installer Copyright (C) 1998-2001 Cisco Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. By installing this product you agree that you have read the license.txt file (The VPN Client license) and will comply with its terms. Directory where binaries will be installed [/usr/local/bin] Automatically start the VPN service at boot time [yes] In order to build the VPN kernel module, you must have the kernel headers for the version of the kernel you are running. For RedHat 6.x users these files are installed in /usr/src/linux by default For RedHat 7.x users these files are installed in /usr/src/linux-2.4 by default For Suse 7.3 users these files are installed in /usr/src/linux-2.4.10.SuSE by de fault Directory containing linux kernel source code [/lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2188.nptl/b uild] * Binaries will be installed in "/usr/local/bin". * Modules will be installed in "/lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2188.nptl/CiscoVPN". * The VPN service will be started AUTOMATICALLY at boot time. * Kernel source from "/lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2188.nptl/build" will be used to bui ld the module. Is the above correct [y] y Making module In file included from Cniapi.h:15, from linuxcniapi.c:24: GenDefs.h...

Linux users have to install by pushing floppy after floppy into drive says MICROS~1
EV1Servers.net Leading Hosted Service Provider Deploys Windows-based Hosting Solutions Faster than Linux-based Solutions case study Posted: September 15, 2003 "Automated Deployment Services (ADS)�a powerful new server purposing tool in Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition" "Business managers at EV1 Servers.net knew that there was a demand for a Microsoft Windows-based hosted service offering" "Executives at the company were well aware that customers were making inquiries about purchasing dedicated hosting services built on the Microsoft� Windows� operating system" "EV1 Servers.net personnel knew how to deploy a Linux-based server quickly. They had script-filled floppies ready to go, and on a moment's notice they could slip a floppy into a bare Dell PowerEdge 1600SC and walk away" "By pushing floppy after floppy into the drive of a bare metal server, EV1 Servers.net's data center team could easily meet the demand for 1,000 new servers per week" "Unless they could find a way to bring that level of automation to the deployment of a Windows-based server, they saw no way to meet a similar level of demand for Windows-based hosting services" "With the Microsoft Solution for Windows-based Hosting, EV1 Servers.net personnel would not even have to go from machine to machine inserting floppies" "ADS made it possible to deploy a server running Microsoft Windows Server 2003 with Interne...

Linux Community Shows Its True Colors (Was Suse 9.1 kills Windows partitions. Use Linux-->Lose Data)
Once again the psychotic, rabid, obsessed Linux community at large shows its true colors. With regard to the thread: " Suse 9.1 kills Windows partitions. Use Linux-->Lose Data......." A link was given to a reputable publication, eWeek, and several other links were also given demonstrating that in fact there is indeed a problem with re-sizing an NTFS partition. *****************EXAMPLE******************************* "The article said the NTFS data was intact. But they couldn't boot. Fedora doesn't have NTFS resizer and dozens of people reported this problem up to this day since February: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=115980 Some googling might give the answer: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html#troubleshoot ===================================================================== Q: Something went wrong, I can't boot! Did I lose everything? A: It's not as easy to destroy all data as usually thought. In theory, three things might go wrong during resizing an NTFS partition and setting it up for dual boot, 1. NTFS resizing by ntfsresize. 2. Repartitioning by fdisk, cfdisk, Parted, QTParted, DiskDrake, YaST, etc. 3. Boot manager setup using LILO, GRUB, etc. In all cases, we have met, the problem was introduced in either step 2. or step 3. and not by the use of ntfsresize. In most cases this means, your data is still intact, you just can not access it. ..... ====================================...

Linux users have to install by pushing floppy after floppy into drive says MICROS~1
EV1Servers.net Leading Hosted Service Provider Deploys Windows-based Hosting Solutions Faster than Linux-based Solutions case study Posted: September 15, 2003 "Automated Deployment Services (ADS)�a powerful new server purposing tool in Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition" "Business managers at EV1 Servers.net knew that there was a demand for a Microsoft Windows-based hosted service offering" "Executives at the company were well aware that customers were making inquiries about purchasing dedicated hosting services built on the Microsoft� Windows� operating system" "EV1 Servers.net personnel knew how to deploy a Linux-based server quickly. They had script-filled floppies ready to go, and on a moment's notice they could slip a floppy into a bare Dell PowerEdge 1600SC and walk away" "By pushing floppy after floppy into the drive of a bare metal server, EV1 Servers.net's data center team could easily meet the demand for 1,000 new servers per week" "Unless they could find a way to bring that level of automation to the deployment of a Windows-based server, they saw no way to meet a similar level of demand for Windows-based hosting services" "With the Microsoft Solution for Windows-based Hosting, EV1 Servers.net personnel would not even have to go from machine to machine inserting floppies" "ADS made it possible to deploy a server running Microsoft Windows Server 2003 with Interne...

DataArchitect 4.1 for SQL Server on LINUX/SOLARIS/WINDOWS/MAC OS/HPUX
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA -- 16 December 2008 -- theKompany.com, producers and distributors of high-quality open source and commercial Linux software, are pleased to announce the release of DataArchitect 4.1. DataArchitect is a powerful tool that provides ERD capability like PowerDesigner as well as the ability to graphically reverse engineer, create and modify a database through ODBC and perform advanced SQL functions. For a single price you get all the supported platforms, Linux (32, 64 bit and PowerPC), Solaris, Windows (32 and 64 bit), HP- UX and Mac OS X. Discover what database professionals have known for years - that enterprise databases are designed with enterprise modeling tools. Why has this been a secret for so many? Why do so many labor with buckets full of error prone, undocumented, SQL? Well it seems no one has been able to pack the features of a quality data modeling tool into a product at an accessible price - not until now. Data Architect is an emerging enterprise tool for designing databases at all levels of an organization using the same concepts found in tools costing thousands of dollars! Major Features: * Workspace/Project oriented environment * ERD centric data modeling * Logical Data Model * Physical Data Model (Oracle, ODBC, SQL92, MySQL, PostgreSQL, DB2, FireBird, MS SQL, SQLBase) * model panner ('birds eye view') * quick find and navigation from output window * model validation * full documentation capabilities * integrated Advanced SQL...

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