Hello there,

Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?

I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
running LAMP applications on it.

What would be the best way to build a Linux-powered ipod-like device?

I hope this isn't off topic for this group--the more places Linux
runs, the better off we all are!

Please advise.

Thanks!

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:30:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:

> Hello there,
> 
> Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
> PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?

The closest you would get is a fully fledged tablet PC running Linux. I'm
not aware of any that come with Linux out of the box.

That's a very hefty configuration there, by conventional PDA standards.

> I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
> running LAMP applications on it.
> 
> What would be the best way to build a Linux-powered ipod-like device?
>
> I hope this isn't off topic for this group--the more places Linux runs,
> the better off we all are!

It's most certainly on-topic.

-- 
Mathew M. <mathew@spiesNOSPAMareus.yi.org>
GPG public key ID: 0x3DDC1413

This post contains a chemical or chemicals known to the state of California
to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. This (these) 
chemical(s) may be harmful to your health.

Ranger West wrote:
> Hello there,
> 
> Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
> PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?
> 

I don't think any of the great distributions supports handhelds
at the present day, but there are some distributions from other
companies that can run on Linux-enabled handheld devices.

> I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
> running LAMP applications on it.

I have run Linux applications ported to Windows CE in my
Cassiopea some time ago, before I changed to Palm. There was
a place in Internet where you had a lot of GNU applications
ported to Windows CE, but as far as I can remember no LAMP
applications yet.

> 
> What would be the best way to build a Linux-powered ipod-like device?
> 
> I hope this isn't off topic for this group--the more places Linux
> runs, the better off we all are!
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> Thanks!


-- 

Jose Maria Lopez Hernandez
Director Tecnico de bgSEC
jkerouac@bgsec.com
bgSEC Seguridad y Consultoria de Sistemas Informaticos
http://www.bgsec.com
ESPA�A

The only people for me are the mad ones -- the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn
like fabulous yellow Roman candles.
                 -- Jack Kerouac, "On the Road"

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:30:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:

> Hello there,
> 
> Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
> PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?
> 
> I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
> running LAMP applications on it.

The Zaurus doesn't just "come close", it's right there.  I've had no
problems at all running LAMP apps on the Z.  The Z uses Opera as its
browser, and if one can get around the screensize issues, it runs the same
as a full size desktop system.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the Z hasn't really took off.  I
suppose many people who are looking for just a PDA have little knowledge
or need of the full capabilities of this little gem.

With what you are referring to, it really has nothing much to do with the
client, but the server.  The server system is the one that handles the
heavy lifting, all the client does is display the results, which is the
beauty of LAMP apps.

Unless you mean actually using the Z *as* a LAMP server?  In that case,
though I'm sure it could be done, one must ask the question, "why?"


> What would be the best way to build a Linux-powered ipod-like device?

That's a huge fish to tackle...do you mean software or hardware wise, or
both?

> I hope this isn't off topic for this group--the more places Linux runs,
> the better off we all are!
> 
> Please advise.

You may want to take a peek here...

http://www.linuxdevices.com


> Thanks!

On 8 Sep 2004 21:30:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
> PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?
>
> I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
> running LAMP applications on it.
>
> What would be the best way to build a Linux-powered ipod-like device?
>
> I hope this isn't off topic for this group--the more places Linux
> runs, the better off we all are!
>
> Please advise.

I have no doubt the Zaurus can do it, but you might want to try LAPP 
(postgresql instead of MySQL) otherwise the stench of fecal decay in your
pocket will deter any conversation.

-- 
FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386
11:55AM  up 172 days,  3:58, 1 user, load averages: 0.14, 0.03, 0.01

Rapskat <rapskat@mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.09.09.20.47.39.497753@mailblocks.com>...
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:30:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:
> 
> > Hello there,
> > 
> > Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
> > PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?
> > 
> > I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
> > running LAMP applications on it.
> 
> The Zaurus doesn't just "come close", it's right there.  I've had no
> problems at all running LAMP apps on the Z.  The Z uses Opera as its
> browser, and if one can get around the screensize issues, it runs the same
> as a full size desktop system.
> 
> Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the Z hasn't really took off.  I
> suppose many people who are looking for just a PDA have little knowledge
> or need of the full capabilities of this little gem.
> 
> With what you are referring to, it really has nothing much to do with the
> client, but the server.  The server system is the one that handles the
> heavy lifting, all the client does is display the results, which is the
> beauty of LAMP apps.
> 
> Unless you mean actually using the Z *as* a LAMP server?  In that case,
> though I'm sure it could be done, one must ask the question, "why?"
> 

What about the article on the Zaurus: "The Hard Way / How Not
to Build a Linux PDA" <http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/hard_01.html>
written by someone involved heavily with the Zaurus efforts, which
have essentially failed.

HE HARD WAY
How Not to Build a Linux PDA
by Jason Perlow

Last month, I touched a little bit on HP's screwed up Linux PDA
initiative, but perhaps I was a bit too harsh. Sure, they have a
research arm that's completely underutilized and they have absolutely
no clue as how to turn those efforts into a product, but HP is in no
way unique in their absence from the PDA and Linux device cluetrain.
For the most part, the entire industry needs a swift kick in the head
to see how to build and market a successful Linux handheld and to
learn how to properly support open source PDA developers. I learned
how the hard way, and here's my painful perspective on the whole
shebang.

A Painful Lesson

From December of 2002 through February 2003, I was Software Developer
Liaison for Sharp's Electronics' Zaurus, probably the first handheld
Linux device to enjoy any commercial success at all (although its
success has been extremely limited, and at the end of the day, only
the hardcore Linux faithful have remained loyal to the product.)

While I can't go into detail about how many units were sold in the
United States, it was considerably lower than most public estimates.
Within the first six months of the product's launch, it was banished
from superstore shelves, the product was re-purposed as an overpriced
enterprise handheld for vertical market applications, and then was
only for sale by a handful of resellers and small system integrators.
Currently, the only way to get a new Zaurus is to import one directly
from Japan through a handful of "grey market" resellers for about
$600-$800. Today, Sharp is still trying to find to a way to yet again
re-purpose the machine and generate interest.

http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/hard_01.html

jollyrogership@yahoo.com (Ranger West) wrote in message news:<c4449572.0409091905.6881844e@posting.google.com>...
> Rapskat <rapskat@mailblocks.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.09.09.20.47.39.497753@mailblocks.com>...
> > On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:30:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello there,
> > > 
> > > Are there any out-of-the box handhelds that run Linux/Apache/MYSQL and
> > > PHP?  Does Redhat, Suse, or Gentoo support any handhelds?
> > > 
> > > I know the Zaurus comes close, but I've heard people have problems
> > > running LAMP applications on it.
> > 
> > The Zaurus doesn't just "come close", it's right there.  I've had no
> > problems at all running LAMP apps on the Z.  The Z uses Opera as its
> > browser, and if one can get around the screensize issues, it runs the same
> > as a full size desktop system.

In many ways, Zaurus was "too much" machine for what turned out to be
a very low price.  Zaurus users had the full capabilities of Linux, in
a hand-held.  When you added a Flash WiFi card, and a 128 meg SDRam,
you had a very powerful machine that you could take anywhere.

> > Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the Z hasn't really took off.  I
> > suppose many people who are looking for just a PDA have little knowledge
> > or need of the full capabilities of this little gem.

I'm not.  Keep in mind that Microsoft finances the flooring of several
products, including much of the game software, which amounts to about
$200 million worth of flooring in each of those superstore chains. 
When a product comes that they don't like, there's lots of pressure to
pull it off the market.  When the Zaurus came out, the Ipaq was in
short supply, and everybody wanted one.  If you were too good at
selling the Zaurus, you might not get anymore Ipaqs.  The laptop
makers weren't too keen on the Zaurus either, because it not only
competed for IT dollars, but it could quickly have became the
"computer of choice" on airplanes and trains for consultants and
commuters.

IBM offered a version of the Sharp Zaurus, 
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7038193921.html

There was also a bit of concern that the Zaurus might threaten the
adoption of Java on PDAs.

Quite simply, it reminded me of the Atari ST series.  When the Atari
first came out, it was so far ahead of the available competition that
a number of different forces united to block it's entry to the market.
 IBM and Compaq flooded the FCC Emissions testing facility with board
configurations, which delayed testing and certification of the Atari
1040 ST beyond it's market window.  They did the same thing to the
Commodore Amiga.

IBM now sells the Palm Tungsten E, T3, and C as well as the Zire 21.

No mention of the Zaurus anymore.

There are times when someone jumps too far ahead in the technology
race, the Zaurus was one of those jumps.


Other Linux PDAs

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8728350077.html

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:05:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:

>> Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the Z hasn't really took off.  I
>> suppose many people who are looking for just a PDA have little
>> knowledge or need of the full capabilities of this little gem.
>> 
<snip>
> 
> What about the article on the Zaurus: "The Hard Way / How Not to Build a
> Linux PDA" <http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/hard_01.html> written by
> someone involved heavily with the Zaurus efforts, which have essentially
> failed.

See, here is the issue....

I *love* the Z.  I think it's the best little piece of tux-powered
portable technology on the market.

However, the Z's strengths are not as a PDA, even though it is marketed as
one.  If all you want is a really good PDA, then get a Palm.

If you are looking for something with the power and flexibility of a full
sized Linux box that you can put in your pocket and take with you
anywhere, then you need a Z.

-- 
rapskat - 15:01:16 up 2 days, 19:00,  5 users,  load average: 0.69, 0.45, 0.38
Execute every act of thy life as though it were thy last.
		-- Marcus Aurelius

Rapskat wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 20:05:08 -0700, Ranger West wrote:
>
>>> Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the Z hasn't really took off.
>>> I suppose many people who are looking for just a PDA have little
>>> knowledge or need of the full capabilities of this little gem.
>>>
> <snip>
>>
>> What about the article on the Zaurus: "The Hard Way / How Not to
>> Build a Linux PDA" <http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/hard_01.html>
>> written by someone involved heavily with the Zaurus efforts, which
>> have essentially failed.
>
> See, here is the issue....
>
> I *love* the Z.  I think it's the best little piece of tux-powered
> portable technology on the market.
>
> However, the Z's strengths are not as a PDA, even though it is
> marketed as one.  If all you want is a really good PDA, then get a
> Palm.
>
> If you are looking for something with the power and flexibility of a
> full sized Linux box that you can put in your pocket and take with you
> anywhere, then you need a Z.




An Intel X-Scale 400 processor and 64MB of SDRAM does have "the power and 
flexibility of a full sized Linux box."

Only $700US, from Sharp.

Compare to the PalmOne Tungsten C, for $349US, from Newegg.
http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-c/tungsten_c_ds.pdf



From: http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/hard_01.html

"...Sharp's Electronics' Zaurus, probably the first handheld Linux device to 
enjoy any commercial success at all (although its success has been extremely 
limited, and at the end of the day, only the hardcore Linux faithful have 
remained loyal to the product.)"

I wonder what they mean by that ?