It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
hardware.
My lexmark printer did not work.
My USB storage device did not work.
My Canon scanner did not work.
My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
advanced functions of it would work.
My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
My wireless network card did not work.
My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
that slide.
My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
worked fine when installing Mandrake.
The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
awful.
Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
the formatting.
I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
AIM and neither does gaim.
It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
are up and not muted.

Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
system and no directions as to how to go about using them.

Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.

All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
a desktop system.
Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
stable as Windows is.
Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
geeks because that is what it does best.

It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.

Roger Wilco, over and out.

bababababa boooooey

Donn Miller wrote:

> Baba Booey wrote:
> 
>> My lexmark printer did not work.
> 
> Uh huh huh huh huh, hey Beavis, he bought a Lexmark.  What a dumbass.

Snipped the rest...

Don't waste your time. This looks like the work of Flatfish, the dumbest,
lamest troll you've ever come across.

-- 

There are two kinds of people: people who USED Linux and like it
and people who never used Linux and don't like it.

Peter Bilt wrote:

> Thank you for the reality check for the COLA hippies. However, that is
> nothing new, everybody knows Linux is a crappy experimental niche
> joke, that is the reason why Linux has such a shamefull market
> penetration.
> 
> It's the penetration baby!
> 
> 
> Peter Bilt

Speaking of penetration, how's your life partner, these days?

-- 

There are two kinds of people: people who USED Linux and like it
and people who never used Linux and don't like it.

Baba Booey wrote:

> My lexmark printer did not work.

Uh huh huh huh huh, hey Beavis, he bought a Lexmark.  What a dumbass.

> My USB storage device did not work.

I have some trouble believing this one.  What USB storage device is this 
thing, flash memory, external HD, etc.?

> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.

Timidity.

> My wireless network card did not work.

Wow, who is the manufacturer?

> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.

Spend some money and buy a real modem then.

> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.

Right.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 -0700, Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> 
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey

Good try, But you did not fool me Mr Gates!
-- 
Carl Wagner
Sacramento, CA
cwagster@comcrap.net - Change comcrap to comcast

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 -0700, Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
<major snip of repetitive whine...>

I guess we can rename you "Mr. Unlucky." You have my sympathy. 

I've got 2 different distros of Linux running on five separate computers
at home (including a wireless laptop.) Everything works beautifully. Very
stable, no constant virus headaches, just a joy to use. 

Only run Windows XP dual boot on one of the PC's for the convenience
running a couple of Windows-only programs and being able to interact
on certain levels with the poor unfortunates who are stuck in a MS-only
world. 



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Windows is garbage compared to Linux.

I recently installed Windows on my dad's computer. Why? Because it crashed  
when i used it! (as the normal user).
1. I only got this resque cdroms, shipped and preconfigured from the  
manufacture.
2. I have only 3 months of Anti-virus protection!
3. No calc sheet, word processor, math program, perl / c / java /  
c++ compiler, no useable programming editor (such as emacs).
4. If i didn't would had this hardware based firewall on the network i'm  
pretty sure the blaster virus would attack the (not updated) computer.
5. A chess game was missing (and is still missing 'cause i haven't  
installed it yet). A Go game is missing (and'll be missing 'cause i can't  
find the cdrom).
6. If i miss the cdroms ('cause the manufactur didn't ship the cdroms with  
the computer) i can't possibly (read: legaly) download a winxp cdrom from  
bittorrent/ ftp and burn it myself (atleast not what i am awared of).
7. I can't simply do a upgrade of my builtin drivers (the graphic card has  
a driver which don't support tv-out, but i know there's a driver which  
gives that possibility).
8. The Windows couldn't read from the resque ext3 partition i had created.
9. There's no Live (read: non-harddisc) windows for resqueing and stuff.
10. There's non what so ever irc client, working e-mail client, working  
webbrowser (se 11).
11. Internet explorer missing: tabbed webbrowsing, intregrated irc+msn  
(their own protocol), google toolbar (okey, they've msn search), news  
client, smart/intelligent popupblocker (it'll come in next version, the  
obvious service pack),
12. There's none image manipulator.
13. There's only one (or perhaps two) different looks.
14. There's nothing crossplatform or what so ever in windows.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 +0000, Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.

Blame lexmark for not releasing information about it's printers. I have an
Apollo P2200 which works fine.

> My USB storage device did not work.

It should have - mine do. I have two different brand flash drives and two
different card readers plus a usb floppy which all work.

> My Canon scanner did not work.

Blame Canon for not releasing information about it's scanners. I have an
Epson 1640SU which works fine from both SCSI and USB interfaces, with both
xsane and Epson's iscan software.

> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.

My nvidia card works quite well - I have been able to have it do things
the MS driver is incapable of.

> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.

My DSL and wired network work flawlessly.

> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.

winmodem on my old compaq 7470 works like a champ.

> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.

I find just the opposite. I have more choices of video resolution than I
had with MS, and they all look fine.

> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.

It is a little slow, but faster than Win98.

> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.

That's true, but it does all I need, and it didn't cost $600.

> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.

Try AbiWord - I find that it does a much better job with fancy formatting.
Again, it's free.

> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.

I've had no problems with the three different sound systems on my three
different computers.

> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.

No problem here - stick them in and play them.

> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> 
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.

My wife and I both use Linux for all our desktop chores. I've completely
dropped MS on all three computers.

> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey

Baba Booey is alleged to have said in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

<in all probability, nothing but lies>

Posted through google via an open proxy. I suspect either flatty or that
peter bilt goober. Either way, the source is as realiable as the IIM.

-- 
Recursion: n. See Recursion.

Flatfish wrote:

> Roger Wilco, over and out.

A hit and run troll, Flatty?  That's not like the Foul Fish.

Baba Booey wrote:
--snip massive FUD --

Anyone notice that there is no reference in his headers about what
newsreader he's using?

And posting thru googlegroups...sounds like a Wintroll to me.


technomaNge
-- 
Nine out of 10 terrorists agree...ANYONE but Bush.

So? He still has a good point, there are major fault in all operating  
system!

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:28:19 GMT, technomaNge <abuse@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Baba Booey wrote:
> --snip massive FUD --
>
> Anyone notice that there is no reference in his headers about what
> newsreader he's using?
>
> And posting thru googlegroups...sounds like a Wintroll to me.
>
>
> technomaNge



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.

These never work because Lexmark doesn't want to share the secrets to how
they work.  Let's see you compile your own drivers.

> My USB storage device did not work.

Brand?  Type?

> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.

Your hardware is cheap.

> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.

Did you even try reading the ALSA documentation?

> My wireless network card did not work.

Brand?

> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.

I hope so, since winmodems are the krappiest thing since ....

> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.

Did you try it PS/2 ?  Most of those come with PS/2 adapters.

> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work

Did you try reading around on the internet for the solution.

> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.

Did you try tweaking it?  Did you try any other WMs?

> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.

It never claimed to be.  Get real: Adobe Photoshop is industry standard and
very advanced.

> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.

No, you've got a misconception.  Word doesn't share its "how our documents
work" with anyone, so it's a miracle they open at all.  What you should've
done is saved the files in RTF from Word and then tried them out.

> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.

What are you doing to expect?  Kopete/GAIM != AIM.  Your expectations are
way too high in some regards, since these are all programmed for free. 
GAIM is working on getting webcam working, but all this is being done
basically by trial and error, since the major IM client companies don't
like to share how things work, especially not MSN.

> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.

Personally I don't believe that, as I have less-common cards that Mandrake
10 immediately recognized.  Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot, you don't read
documentation, like http://www.alsa-project.org

> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.

There are like 5 help systems: a KDE manual thingy, Gnome has a help area,
the /usr/doc/ area on the hard drive is usually full of stuff, and the
internet has plenty of help manuals.  Also, help can be found on IRC.

> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.

Then maybe you should be submitting bug reports, and/or trying other players
and seeing what the problem is.

> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.

It's a "hobbyist OS".  I won't bother to go into the flaws of Windows here
because they'd take up at least 5 pages more.  For example, you can't
uninstall NetBIOS, which can be brute-forced open.  You can't prevent IE
and OE from being the spyware/adware/worm/virus whores they are.  You can't
really use the machine properly as it should be: install programs as admin,
use them as users.  Also, one little known problem: all users in Windows
are still admin, just with overlayed restrictions.  This explains why you
can so easily install things as a user and violate your system.

> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.

True, you become what you emulate.

> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey

-- 
BOFH excuse #369:

Virus transmitted from computer to sysadmins.

On 2004-08-15, Baba Booey <baba_booey@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration

Yes it is, but you quote incorrect reasons. How about monopoly?

> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.

You are lying, or a hopeless idiot. Matrox cards are the best you can get 
for X.

-- 
Juha Siltala
http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/people/jsiltala/

baba_booey@linuxmail.org (Baba Booey) wrote in message news:<94cdb156.0408150550.52ab2615@posting.google.com>...
> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> 
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.


Thank you for the reality check for the COLA hippies. However, that is
nothing new, everybody knows Linux is a crappy experimental niche
joke, that is the reason why Linux has such a shamefull market
penetration.

It's the penetration baby!


Peter Bilt

Peter Bilt wrote:

> Thank you for the reality check for the COLA hippies. However, that is
> nothing new, everybody knows Linux is a crappy experimental niche
> joke, that is the reason why Linux has such a shamefull market
> penetration.
> 
> It's the penetration baby!
> 
> Peter Bilt

Remember that next time you're raped by worms, viruses, spyware, adware, etc
etc etc.  Remember that when you pay $200 for the next Windows version
(since you can't tell me you can install Win95 and then buy nothing but the
upgrade CD's all the way into WinXP), and when you pay for antivirus
protection, and for a decent firewall, and for a decent Office suite.  I've
already got all that I need.

-- 
BOFH excuse #261:

The Usenet news is out of date

On Sunday 15 August 2004 09:50 am, thus spake Baba Booey:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> 
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey

Troll alert...do not feed

[plonk]

NeoSadist wrote:
> Peter Bilt wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the reality check for the COLA hippies. However, that
>> is nothing new, everybody knows Linux is a crappy experimental niche
>> joke, that is the reason why Linux has such a shamefull market
>> penetration.
>>
>> It's the penetration baby!
>>
>> Peter Bilt
>
> Remember that next time you're raped by worms, viruses, spyware,
> adware, etc etc etc.  Remember that when you pay $200 for the next
> Windows version (since you can't tell me you can install Win95 and
> then buy nothing but the upgrade CD's all the way into WinXP), and
> when you pay for antivirus protection, and for a decent firewall, and
> for a decent Office suite.  I've already got all that I need.

You're either trolling or you don't know shit about what you just typed. I
suspect the latter.

So why don't lexmark write a close source driver?


> These never work because Lexmark doesn't want to share the secrets to how
> they work.  Let's see you compile your own drivers.

Baba Booey wrote:
> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.

<snip>

He uses AIM guys, what do you expect?

Jonas Lyckeg�rd wrote:
> So? He still has a good point, there are major fault in all operating  
> system!
> 
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:28:19 GMT, technomaNge <abuse@microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
>> Baba Booey wrote:
>> --snip massive FUD --
>>
>> Anyone notice that there is no reference in his headers about what
>> newsreader he's using?
>>
>> And posting thru googlegroups...sounds like a Wintroll to me.
>>
>>
>> technomaNge
> 

How can you pretend to have credibility when you top-post? I ignore your 
points.

However, technomaNge, some people do post though Google Groups because 
they are at work or elsewhere, which may not have a newsreader, or their 
ISP does not offer a news service.

<snip>
>>
>>Roger Wilco, over and out.
>>
>>bababababa boooooey
> 
> 
> Troll alert...do not feed
> 
> [plonk]
> 

We can't help it! Trolls are like animals at the zoo, no matter how many 
DNFtT signs there are, we just have to!

Look at that monkey dance! Look at him!

Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Baba Booey:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.

What a pathetic troll.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 -0700, Baba Booey wrote:


> bababababa boooooey


Re Re Retard is more like it. 

Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Baba Booey:

> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.

That's funny, I also have to spend days fixing up the formatting, except I'm
editing my documents with Word itself!

-- 
[X] Check here to always trust content from Lin�nut

baba_booey@linuxmail.org (Baba Booey) wrote in message news:<94cdb156.0408150550.52ab2615@posting.google.com>...
> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> 
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey


Linux sucks elephant testicles.

Peter Bilt wrote:

> baba_booey@linuxmail.org (Baba Booey) wrote in message news:<94cdb156.0408150550.52ab2615@posting.google.com>...
> 
>>It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
>>despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
>>Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
>>and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
>>hardware.
>>My lexmark printer did not work.
>>My USB storage device did not work.
>>My Canon scanner did not work.
>>My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
>>advanced functions of it would work.
>>My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
>>My wireless network card did not work.
>>My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
>>that slide.
>>My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
>>worked fine when installing Mandrake.
>>The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
>>Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
>>awful.
>>Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
>>2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
>>Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
>>Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
>>although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
>>the formatting.
>>I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
>>AIM and neither does gaim.
>>It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
>>Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
>>I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
>>It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
>>are up and not muted.
>>
>>Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
>>that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
>>system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
>>
>>Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
>>toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
>>some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
>>
>>All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
>>a desktop system.
>>Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
>>trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
>>stable as Windows is.
>>Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
>>geeks because that is what it does best.
>>
>>It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
>>Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
>>
>>Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reality check for the COLA hippies. However, that is
> nothing new, everybody knows Linux is a crappy experimental niche
> joke, that is the reason why Linux has such a shamefull market
> penetration.
> 
> It's the penetration baby!
> 
> 

Obviously, you bit the bait.  You've been trolled.

-- 
---------------------------------
The Golden Years Sux.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 -0700, Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.

You sound just like Glen...

Linux doesn't penetrate the market, because it's free.  It doesn't
penetrate the market, *BECAUSE* it's a free product, not despite it.  Free
products aren't going to penetrate the market.  Market shares are
determined by the amount of *MONEY* that each product takes, out of the
whole pie.  If every man, woman, and child in the US downloaded Linux
tonight (aside from crashing the Internet), Linux *still* wouldn't
penetrate the market, because it wouldn't grab any of the pie.

> My lexmark printer did not work.
<snip>

My stuff worked.  Maybe your stuff is defective, made only to work under
special circuumstances.


> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
True - they are works in progress.  They are developed for the sheer love
of it, often in the programmer's spare time, because he or she loves to do
that.  They are not slick, glitzy programs with all the bells and
whistles.  Sometimes they are buggy.  But unlike commercial software, you
have thousands of programmers around the world who can all contribute to
fix bugs and make improvements.

If you want help, use a newsgroup.  Those with experience will often be
able to help new users with problems.


> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for a
> desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.

Um... did you just get a computer this week?  I have yet to talk to a
computer professional, who says that Windows is more stable than Linux.  I
don't think even Microsoft claims that...

> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
It has been a server OS for years, and will continue to be.  Professionals
know what's the better system.

> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
Well, heck - if you don't like Linux, stick with Windows.  Bill's gotta
eat, too.  Give him your money.  It's OK with me.

But I've got news for you - desktop users are flocking to Linux.  Bill
keeps raising prices, adding restrictions, and screwing up security.  At
some point, even the densest user figures out that it's time to try
something else.  In the meantime, Linux keeps getting better.

But by all means, continue to use Windows if it makes you happy.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:54:49 -0700, Peter Bilt wrote:
> 
> Linux sucks elephant testicles.

So do a lot of other things.  Do you go out of your way to post such
opinions on newsgroups?

What is the point of your trolling, anyway?  You may get some people to
argue with you (or one another), but what have you accomplished?  Do you
then feel good?  Do you get some sort of high from it?  Is there a warm
feeling in your heart when you do that?

If Linux sucks, then don't use it.  No one is forcing you to use Linux,
unlike Windows, which *is* forced on us all.

In article <pan.2004.08.16.04.27.39.840946@N0sbcglobal.net$PAM> (Mon, 16
Aug 2004 04:24:23 +0000), Baruch wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 -0700, Baba Booey wrote:
> 
> You sound just like Glen...

"Baba Booey", "Glen", and "Poopy Pants" are all the troll formerly known
as Flatfish.

Baba Booey wrote:
> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware...

Yup - it is an intelligence test. People who are too stupid to install 
and run linux have no choice but to make do with that stinking pile of 
dog feces foisted on the computing public by the convicted criminals 
operating out of their Redmond hideout.


Sorry Charlie - maybe you'll have enough smarts to make the grade in 
your next incarnation.

Peter Bilt wrote:
>
> Linux sucks elephant testicles.

Bilt now shows he is as ignorant of anatomy as he is of operating 
systems. Hint: Elephants do not have a scrotum and they have their 
testicles inside their body cavity - you'd have to cut one open for 
Linux to do what you suggest.

-- 
C.

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ruel Smith
<NoWay@NoWhere.com>
 wrote
on Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:24:19 -0400
<wmKTc.42240$n7.25119@fe37.usenetserver.com>:
> Donn Miller wrote:
>
>> Baba Booey wrote:
>> 
>>> My lexmark printer did not work.
>> 
>> Uh huh huh huh huh, hey Beavis, he bought a Lexmark.  What a dumbass.
>
> Snipped the rest...
>
> Don't waste your time. This looks like the work of Flatfish, the dumbest,
> lamest troll you've ever come across.
>

Naw, he's only the second dumbest.  :-)  DFS gets my vote.

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.

The problem open source is always going to have is direction.  And OS's need 
to have corporate direction so they will always move towards being user 
friendly.  I've been a big computer junky for over 20 years and I love 
configuring and getting things to work perfectly, but to this day I have not 
ran into a reason for me to install Linux.  There is too much configuring 
for so little reward & lack of software supported.  I only like configuring 
on something that has a point!


"Baba Booey" <baba_booey@linuxmail.org> wrote in message 
news:94cdb156.0408150550.52ab2615@posting.google.com...
> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
>
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
>
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
>
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
>
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
>
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
>
> bababababa boooooey 

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:00:56 -0400, ahh wrote:

> The problem open source is always going to have is direction.  And OS's need 
> to have corporate direction so they will always move towards being user 
> friendly.  I've been a big computer junky for over 20 years and I love 
> configuring and getting things to work perfectly, but to this day I have not 
> ran into a reason for me to install Linux.  There is too much configuring 
> for so little reward & lack of software supported.  I only like configuring 
> on something that has a point!
> 
Respectfully, I believe you simply aren't aware of what Linux is or can
do.  There is endless software available for Linux - word processors,
spreadsheets, presentation managers, e-mail programs, browsers, advanced
math programs, games, sound and image processing software, a wealth of
nifty compilers and interpreters, the list is quite long.

What software were you wanting, that is lacking?  It may be that it isn't
found in standard distros (or the popular ones, anyway).  Still, I would
venture to say it exists somewhere, and that it's at least decent, if not
top-notch.

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2004-08-17, ahh <ahh@ahh.com> wrote:
> The problem open source is always going to have is direction.  And OS's need 
> to have corporate direction so they will always move towards being user 
> friendly.  I've been a big computer junky for over 20 years and I love 

Userfriendly you say?

	Apple:     1984
	Atari:     1985
        Commodore: 1986
        Unix/NeXT: 1987

	Microsoft: 1995

[deletia]

The notion that "corporate direction" automatically yields benefits
for the consumer is absurdly naieve.

-- 

	vi isn't easy to use.				 |||
							/ | \
	vi is easy to REPLACE.




                                                     

Your point of view is exactly like mine.
I on the other hand have tried several Linux distributions and always have 
the feeling that there's too much to configure, waisting valuable that 
should be spent working and not configuring.
On my humble opinion Linux isn't quite ready for the desktop. I have anm 
exception here for Xandros that really configures SAMBA networks almost by 
itself (just plain BEAUTIFUL). Needless to say it's my favorite :).


"ahh" <ahh@ahh.com> wrote in message 
news:zsadnY3JOPhS-7zcRVn-jQ@giganews.com...
> The problem open source is always going to have is direction.  And OS's 
> need to have corporate direction so they will always move towards being 
> user friendly.  I've been a big computer junky for over 20 years and I 
> love configuring and getting things to work perfectly, but to this day I 
> have not ran into a reason for me to install Linux.  There is too much 
> configuring for so little reward & lack of software supported.  I only 
> like configuring on something that has a point!

Chris H wrote:

> Peter Bilt wrote:
> 
>>
>> Linux sucks elephant testicles.
> 
> 
> Bilt now shows he is as ignorant of anatomy as he is of operating 
> systems. Hint: Elephants do not have a scrotum and they have their 
> testicles inside their body cavity - you'd have to cut one open for 
> Linux to do what you suggest.
> 

Have you tried to suck 'em before yourself?

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2004-08-17, Jorge Santos <jmts@despammed.com> wrote:
> Your point of view is exactly like mine.
> I on the other hand have tried several Linux distributions and always have 
> the feeling that there's too much to configure, waisting valuable that 
> should be spent working and not configuring.

     ...as opposed to cleaning up things later.

     It used to be registry rot that you would have to bother with, now
	it's spyware and other such Win32 only malware. It's gotten to the
	point where you can be fairly paranoid and still get infested with
	this crap.     

> On my humble opinion Linux isn't quite ready for the desktop. I have anm 

     ...only if you compare it to Macintosh.

[deletia]

	Despite all of Microsoft's weak attempts at progress over the
	last 10 years the fact still remains: Linux MIGHT subject you
	to more work upfront, but it will certainly subject you to 
	remarkably less work later on.

-- 

	vi isn't easy to use.				 |||
							/ | \
	vi is easy to REPLACE.




                                                     

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 13:07:55 -0700, Peter Bilt wrote:
>  
> Thank you for the reality check for the COLA hippies. However, that is
> nothing new, everybody knows Linux is a crappy experimental niche joke,
> that is the reason why Linux has such a shamefull market penetration.

Yeah, Linux is kinda pitiful. Google only has 100,000 servers running
Linux to power their system. Some two-thirds of the web pages in the world
are hosted on Linux based and similar machines. Tivo runs on Linux.
Microsoft's Hotmail service ran their servers on BSD/Linux for quite a
while because the MS operating systems couldn't handle the load. (They
were going to switch but don't know if they ever made it all the way to
MS.)

You're so right. What a crappy little experimental niche joke.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Baruch <baruch01@N0sbcglobal.net$PAM> wrote in message news:

> What software were you wanting, that is lacking?  It may be that it isn't
> found in standard distros (or the popular ones, anyway).  Still, I would
> venture to say it exists somewhere, and that it's at least decent, if not
> top-notch.

Being New to Linux (and forced to start with the Xandros/Lindows type
stuff to get my feet wet).....

How about half ways decent CAD ? Everything I have looked at so far is
on the edge of cheezy. I would really have to suck it in and try to
enjoy working with some of that stuff. There may be some high end
stuff out there that really is fabulous (I know there is), but it is
not anywhere near the cost level that adequate windows proggys are
sold at.

Graphics programs ? Well, so far Gimp certainly isn't Corel Draw.

CAM programs... Good toolpath generation on linux for the CNC world is
a challenge. Have not seen much good so far. I am sure some is out
there, but I assure you it is not exactly affordable.

CNC Control ?  only one. better like it ! it is called EMC. Lots of
configuration, lots of still missing features unless your a
programmer.

So, while I would love to give "bill the boot", there really ARE
missing links in the Linux world.

So, those who really like to banter about how great it is, possibly
don't DO what others Do.

I'm not giving up.... Xandros looks pretty nice to me.

CL

Chris L wrote:
> Baruch <baruch01@N0sbcglobal.net$PAM> wrote in message news:
> 
> 
>>What software were you wanting, that is lacking?  It may be that it isn't
>>found in standard distros (or the popular ones, anyway).  Still, I would
>>venture to say it exists somewhere, and that it's at least decent, if not
>>top-notch.
> 
> 
> Being New to Linux (and forced to start with the Xandros/Lindows type
> stuff to get my feet wet).....

Sounds like FUD to me. MS must be worried.

Well, well. What Microsoft can't stand a little competition?  This must
have been written by one of Mr. Gates croanies.

I have not had any of the problems that you are referring to, I thank God, 
moved away from Windcrap 5 years ago, and have never looked back.  I freed 
myself, and my mind.  Yes, I have had some issues with device drivers,
but I asked for help of the world wide Linux community, and solved the
issues.

So, if it's too dificult for you, stay with Microshite, and stay
off the Linux newsgroups, unless maybe you have nothing better to do?

Ask yourself, why does a Windoze computer have to be rebooted so many
times, self copitulating memory hog?  Why does a Linux box run virtually
forever?  Why is HP and IBM switching to Linux.

Why does an Xbox run a Linux kernel?

Stay with Windoze and be force fed what the evil doers want you to use, or
be open minded and ask for help next time.



On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:24 -0700, Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.
> My USB storage device did not work.
> My Canon scanner did not work.
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work.
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them.
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> 
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey

I say again, Windows is for stupid people.  Baba boooy is a mindless
troll, and should just stick to his mindless software.

:-) 

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:48:56 +0000, male24-7 wrote:

> Chris L wrote:
>> Baruch <baruch01@N0sbcglobal.net$PAM> wrote in message news:
>> 
>> 
>>>What software were you wanting, that is lacking?  It may be that it isn't
>>>found in standard distros (or the popular ones, anyway).  Still, I would
>>>venture to say it exists somewhere, and that it's at least decent, if not
>>>top-notch.
>> 
>> 
>> Being New to Linux (and forced to start with the Xandros/Lindows type
>> stuff to get my feet wet).....
> 
> Sounds like FUD to me. MS must be worried.

Chris L wrote:

> Baruch <baruch01@N0sbcglobal.net$PAM> wrote in message news:
> 
>> What software were you wanting, that is lacking?  It may be that it isn't
>> found in standard distros (or the popular ones, anyway).  Still, I would
>> venture to say it exists somewhere, and that it's at least decent, if not
>> top-notch.
> 
> Being New to Linux (and forced to start with the Xandros/Lindows type
> stuff to get my feet wet).....
> 
> How about half ways decent CAD ? Everything I have looked at so far is
> on the edge of cheezy. I would really have to suck it in and try to
> enjoy working with some of that stuff. There may be some high end
> stuff out there that really is fabulous (I know there is), but it is
> not anywhere near the cost level that adequate windows proggys are
> sold at.

Varicad is supposedly one of the better programs supporting Linux,
but its not a cheap program. Though considerably cheaper than AutoCad. 
Apparently Autocad 14 can be coaxed to run under Wine.  Linuxcad is a 
program that looks cheap at the start, $100, but seems to have a lot of add 
ons that soon bring it up to the price range more along $500 bucks and it 
had alot of rough edges according to reviews I've seen.

Other than that, you seem to be right.
Its slim pickings.













> 
> Graphics programs ? Well, so far Gimp certainly isn't Corel Draw.
> 
> CAM programs... Good toolpath generation on linux for the CNC world is
> a challenge. Have not seen much good so far. I am sure some is out
> there, but I assure you it is not exactly affordable.
> 
> CNC Control ?  only one. better like it ! it is called EMC. Lots of
> configuration, lots of still missing features unless your a
> programmer.
> 
> So, while I would love to give "bill the boot", there really ARE
> missing links in the Linux world.
> 
> So, those who really like to banter about how great it is, possibly
> don't DO what others Do.
> 
> I'm not giving up.... Xandros looks pretty nice to me.
> 
> CL

-- 
Senator Waxman's searchable database of iraq war lies.
www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
A good portal to more lies and Bush stupidity is to be found at
www.failureisimpossible.com - Go to the index and go to
 "L" for lies.  All you need to know about Bush when you 
step into the voting booth. Bush is a liar and surrounds 
himself with fellow liars.

Cheerful Charlie

Baba Booey wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.
> My lexmark printer did not work.        Do they ever?
> My USB storage device did not work.     Both mine do
> My Canon scanner did not work.          Mine does
> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.   ATI Radeons work fine though
> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
> My wireless network card did not work. Have you connected it using
configuration or KDE desktop?
> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.
> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.  Is your USB port the problem?
> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work do you need them?
> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.        Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory. much faster than xp on my 2.1
gHz Athlon
> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.   True
> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.  Yes formatting can sometimes be a problem MS Office makes
a much bigger mess of imported file types in my experience however 
> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim. True doesn't look as flash but both work just
as well
> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.  Didn't the config tool in
Configure your computer work?
> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs. Use KsCD set
extras configure KsCd to dev/cdrom0 or 1 or whatever device you use. Is the
analog cable plugged into the sound card?
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted. as above - I had this problem as well
> 
> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
> system and no directions as to how to go about using them. Plenty of help
if you look for it - try a Google search (works on Linux by the way)
> 
> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
> so use Xine or Totem or XMovie - you get the samre in Windows and need a
variety of players there too
> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.
> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is. 

I think 10.0 works pretty well all in all. You get some hiccups and
frustrations but can usually overcome them. I'm currently struggling a bit
with k3b burner software but I'll get there. 
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.

You forget two things I think. Firstly Linux provides some healthy and
needed competition for Windo$e. It would be even more expensive if other
alternatives were not out there ( and is currently better value than in
earlier times because of it I think). Secondly it's relatively free to get
and use. How many hours would you need to put in before it's financially
not worth looking at you should ask yourself. For the price it's worth some
investment I think.

> 
> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
> 
> Roger Wilco, over and out.
> 
> bababababa boooooey

whistlerspa wrote:
> Baba Booey wrote:
> 
> 
>>It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
>>despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
>>Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 on my Pentium 4 system
>>and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
>>hardware.
>>My lexmark printer did not work.        Do they ever?
>>My USB storage device did not work.     Both mine do
>>My Canon scanner did not work.          Mine does
>>My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
>>advanced functions of it would work.   ATI Radeons work fine though
>>My emagic MIDI interface did not work.
>>My wireless network card did not work. Have you connected it using
> 
> configuration or KDE desktop?
> 
>>My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
>>that slide.
>>My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
>>worked fine when installing Mandrake.  Is your USB port the problem?
>>The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work do you need them?
>>Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
>>awful.        Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
>>Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
>>2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory. much faster than xp on my 2.1
> 
> gHz Athlon
> 
>>Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.   True
>>Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
>>although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
>>the formatting.  Yes formatting can sometimes be a problem MS Office makes
> 
> a much bigger mess of imported file types in my experience however 
> 
>>I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
>>AIM and neither does gaim. True doesn't look as flash but both work just
> 
> as well
> 
>>It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
>>Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.  Didn't the config tool in
> 
> Configure your computer work?
> 
>>I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs. Use KsCD set
> 
> extras configure KsCd to dev/cdrom0 or 1 or whatever device you use. Is the
> analog cable plugged into the sound card?
> 
>>It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
>>are up and not muted. as above - I had this problem as well
>>
>>Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
>>that they are works in progress and most are terrible with no help
>>system and no directions as to how to go about using them. Plenty of help
> 
> if you look for it - try a Google search (works on Linux by the way)
> 
>>Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
>>toss at it.I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
>>some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.
>>so use Xine or Totem or XMovie - you get the samre in Windows and need a
> 
> variety of players there too
> 
>>All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
>>a desktop system.
>>Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
>>trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
>>stable as Windows is. 
> 
> 
> I think 10.0 works pretty well all in all. You get some hiccups and
> frustrations but can usually overcome them. I'm currently struggling a bit
> with k3b burner software but I'll get there. 
> 
>>Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
>>geeks because that is what it does best.
> 
> 
> You forget two things I think. Firstly Linux provides some healthy and
> needed competition for Windo$e. It would be even more expensive if other
> alternatives were not out there ( and is currently better value than in
> earlier times because of it I think). Secondly it's relatively free to get
> and use. How many hours would you need to put in before it's financially
> not worth looking at you should ask yourself. For the price it's worth some
> investment I think.

You don't make it sound appealing.  So, you say Linux is only valuable 
because it acts to alleviate perceptions that Microsoft is a monopoly. 
And the people at Microsoft promote the idea that Linux is some kind of 
competitor because of that -- even though it's miles away from being a 
real desktop system?

> 
> 
>>It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
>>Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.
>>
>>Roger Wilco, over and out.
>>
>>bababababa boooooey
> 
> 

Chris H <chris@no.none> wrote:
> Peter Bilt wrote:

>> Linux sucks elephant testicles.

> Bilt now shows he is as ignorant of anatomy as he is of operating 
> systems. Hint: Elephants do not have a scrotum and they have their 
> testicles inside their body cavity - you'd have to cut one open for 
> Linux to do what you suggest.

What do you expect from an MS advocat in c.o.l.a. --- factual
knowledge?  Knowledge of facts is _quite_ incompatible with being
a MS claquer.

-Wolfgang

Baba Booey <baba_booey@linuxmail.org> wrote:

> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.
> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.

Yes, that's what MS prays for, but they haven't got a prayer.
For all their money they finally found a competition they can't
buy out or undercut pricewise ...

Poor MS.

-Wolfgang

wbarwell <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote

> Varicad is supposedly one of the better programs supporting Linux,
> but its not a cheap program. Though considerably cheaper than AutoCad. 
> Apparently Autocad 14 can be coaxed to run under Wine.  Linuxcad is a 
> program that looks cheap at the start, $100, but seems to have a lot of add 
> ons that soon bring it up to the price range more along $500 bucks and it 
> had alot of rough edges according to reviews I've seen.
> 
> Other than that, you seem to be right.
> Its slim pickings.

Thanks for the intelligent reply. The Anti-MS banter from the "Smart
People" is fully understood, but it never accomplishes much.

I did look at Linux cad, and the $500 wouldn't even bother me. I did
find it a little raspy along the edges.

I did a little Searching using "Wine" as a search term along with
linux, and I found out that VectorCad/Cam has been run under Wine. I
already own that ! That will be a start.

Thanks,
Chris L
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Graphics programs ? Well, so far Gimp certainly isn't Corel Draw.
> > 
> > CAM programs... Good toolpath generation on linux for the CNC world is
> > a challenge. Have not seen much good so far. I am sure some is out
> > there, but I assure you it is not exactly affordable.
> > 
> > CNC Control ?  only one. better like it ! it is called EMC. Lots of
> > configuration, lots of still missing features unless your a
> > programmer.
> > 
> > So, while I would love to give "bill the boot", there really ARE
> > missing links in the Linux world.
> > 
> > So, those who really like to banter about how great it is, possibly
> > don't DO what others Do.
> > 
> > I'm not giving up.... Xandros looks pretty nice to me.
> > 
> > CL
>  
> -- 
> Senator Waxman's searchable database of iraq war lies.
> www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
> A good portal to more lies and Bush stupidity is to be found at
> www.failureisimpossible.com - Go to the index and go to
>  "L" for lies.  All you need to know about Bush when you 
> step into the voting booth. Bush is a liar and surrounds 
> himself with fellow liars.
> 
> Cheerful Charlie

Linux would be Pretty Good,If the Hardware Manufactures  would write Drivers
to Support The System.Until Then we're all screwed   !!!!!!!!

Here in alt.os.linux.mandrake,
"B.Kearney" <priest@eircom.net> spake unto us, saying:

>Linux would be Pretty Good,If the Hardware Manufactures  would write
>Drivers to Support The System.Until Then we're all screwed   !!!!!!!!

Not so.  All a person has to do in order to use Linux effectively is
make sure that they purchase hardware with Linux support in mind.

That isn't any different from what we OS/2 users had to do ten years
ago, or any different from what BSD, Solaris, BeOS, or users of other
non-Windows operating systems have to do today.

-- 
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
  OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
     Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
              See web site above for resume/CV and background.

B.Kearney wrote:

> Linux would be Pretty Good,If the Hardware Manufactures  would write
> Drivers
> to Support The System.Until Then we're all screwed   !!!!!!!!

Actually, that's not quite accurate... We'd be OK if the hardware
manufacturers would just give Linux programmers the specs they need to
write the drivers.  Unfortunately, some manufacturers are afraid of having
proprietary information stolen.  This leaves programmers with little choice
but to hack around until they can get something to work - or to
reverse-engineer the drivers.  This is time-consuming and error-prone, so
many devices just don't get the needed drivers.

To my way of thinking, Linux users can have an effect on this, by clearly
telling the retailers and the manufacturers what they want.  Ask for
Linux-compatible stuff.  If they don't have it, talk to the store manager. 
Write to the manufacturer of the hardware you want Linux-compatible.  It's
time-consuming and usually won't get an individual very far, but if these
guys keep hearing it, some of them will eventually do something about it.

This is also advocacy - letting the right people know what you want.

begin  B.Kearney wrote:

> Linux would be Pretty Good,If the Hardware Manufactures  would write
> Drivers
> to Support The System.Until Then we're all screwed   !!!!!!!!

"We"? Since when do "we" use this garbage OE?
-- 
The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners.

Well, to throw my 2 cents in(I've been doing alot of that lately lol) I
would say that no, Linux is not ready for the run of the mill user yet.  The
only reason I say that is for these reasons:

1) Joe User doesn't want to have to tweak anything.  He wants his computer
to work out of the box.

2) Joe User doesn't want to read documentation.  He wants the interface so
intuitive he dont have to, or he will call tech support.  And no, he will
not google for an answer.  He wants to talk to a techno geek who knows how
to fix his machine.  Currently I beleive the tech support for the major
distros is somewhat lacking.  I tried to install Mandrake 10 on a system of
mine, and it locked up at kernel decompression.  I couldn't get thru to
anyone except via email.  Not had any experience with other distros(I d/l
most for experimentation and that's all), but with mandrake being the lead
on ease-of-use, it is lacking.

3) Linux comes with only selected OEMs.  I know HP doesn't put linux on the
box, I'm not sure about Dell, and I know IBM does, but more major OEMs need
to be wooed so "working out of the box" will be there.

4) Try finding a boxed set in a store.  I have only seen Red Hat Enterprise
and Mandrake 10.0 in a store.  I've looked in two major cites thus far, and
that is really a far cry from where it needs to be.  More box sets=more
customers=more manufacturer support.

No, I am an avid Linux fan.  I'm a LAN tech and I pitch a tent everytime I
see a *nix box out somewhere.  But, some points that many ppl have are
valid.  Now linux does have these good points:

1) For the most part Virus free.  I think there were two virii released for
*nix, and they could only do minimal damage.

2) Puts freedom in the hands of the user.  No longer is the user really tied
down to the whims of a single compnay that fixes things only when it is
cost-efficient.

3) No Legal Worries!!  (The SCO case doesn't count, AT&T blew their case
outta the water in 1985 with the article in echo$ )

4) Power to make the solutions that work best for the
client/customer/user/et al.


Like I said though, just my two cents(or maybe 5 or ten)...

On 2004-08-28, Corey Reichle <coreyreichle@verizon.net> sputtered:
> Well, to throw my 2 cents in(I've been doing alot of that lately lol) I
> would say that no, Linux is not ready for the run of the mill user yet.  The
> only reason I say that is for these reasons:
>
> 1) Joe User doesn't want to have to tweak anything.  He wants his computer
> to work out of the box.

You mean he wants to buy a machine that's ready to go and never install
anything. You mean he doesn't want to have to reinstall anything and
get drivers going. You mean that if he's going to run on dialup or DSL
that everything should already be installed, have his username and
password preset and all tested and working.

I don't know where he'll find that.

> 2) Joe User doesn't want to read documentation.  He wants the interface so
> intuitive he dont have to, or he will call tech support.  And no, he will
> not google for an answer.  He wants to talk to a techno geek who knows how
> to fix his machine.  Currently I beleive the tech support for the major
> distros is somewhat lacking.  I tried to install Mandrake 10 on a system of
> mine, and it locked up at kernel decompression.  I couldn't get thru to
> anyone except via email.  Not had any experience with other distros(I d/l
> most for experimentation and that's all), but with mandrake being the lead
> on ease-of-use, it is lacking.

If it's all set and ready to go when he gets the machine, he'll never
have to do any of that stuff.

But I /still/ don't know where he's going to get this magical machine,
already loaded with all of the hardware he'll ever use, already set up
with all of his account informationa ctivated and waiting for him to
use it.

> 3) Linux comes with only selected OEMs.  I know HP doesn't put linux on the
> box, I'm not sure about Dell, and I know IBM does, but more major OEMs need
> to be wooed so "working out of the box" will be there.

That shouldn't matter. He /can/ get it preinstalled. He just can't get
it ready to go as you described.

He can't get anything else that way either.

> 4) Try finding a boxed set in a store.  I have only seen Red Hat Enterprise
> and Mandrake 10.0 in a store.  I've looked in two major cites thus far, and
> that is really a far cry from where it needs to be.  More box sets=more
> customers=more manufacturer support.

Look in other stores. I can go a mile in one direction and find 3 or 4
distros. I can go 4 miles in another direction and find at least 5 (3
are the same as in the other direction).

I can go any distance in any direction and only find one (count 'em, 1)
release of Windoze in a boxed set. Same for a Mac OS.

I'm assuming there that you mean new. If you mean used I can up the Mac
by zero, the Winders by one or two and the linux by at least a dozen.

> No, I am an avid Linux fan.  I'm a LAN tech and I pitch a tent everytime I
> see a *nix box out somewhere.  But, some points that many ppl have are
> valid.  Now linux does have these good points:

Ewik really likes linux, too. Maybe you could get some pointers from
him.

And Flatfish, if you can figure out which nym she's using today.

> 1) For the most part Virus free.  I think there were two virii released for
> *nix, and they could only do minimal damage.

Minimal, ehh? What did that damage do? I don't recall any.

> 2) Puts freedom in the hands of the user.  No longer is the user really tied
> down to the whims of a single compnay that fixes things only when it is
> cost-efficient.

But if they need a box that just works without any effort, what's to
fix?

I still have no idea where one of those is, though.

> 3) No Legal Worries!!  (The SCO case doesn't count, AT&T blew their case
> outta the water in 1985 with the article in echo$ )

Maybe a couple. MICROS~1 is patenting everything, including 1s and 0s
and air and water and fire. So there might be a legal wrangle or two on
the horizon.

> 4) Power to make the solutions that work best for the
> client/customer/user/et al.
>
>
> Like I said though, just my two cents(or maybe 5 or ten)...

Here's your change: $0.02 (or $0.05 or $0.10).

-- 
How dare the government intervene to stifle innovation in the computer
industry! That's Microsoft's job, dammit!

"Peter K�hlmann" <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:cgmn5e$687$06$2@news.t-online.com...
So, even if windows was online for dowload for free, it still would'nt be
free.
#1Computer and/or modem
#2 Internet Connection
#3 Time to dowload
#4 CD's to burn on to
#5 Burning software,
etc.etc. Same for linux

begin  In article <tN1Yc.7312$Yo2.5308@trndny01> (Sat, 28 Aug 2004
15:46:33 +0000), Corey Reichle wrote:

> Well, to throw my 2 cents in

Two cents is not sufficient.

> 1) Joe User doesn't want to have to tweak anything.

J. User doesn't know how to tweak anything, whether on Linux, Windows, or
Macintosh.  J. User's computer is on autopilot.

> He wants his computer to work out of the box.

If J. User's computer doesn't work out of the box, it doesn't work period.
J. User does not repair anything broken.

> 2) Joe User doesn't want to read documentation.

J. User won't read documentation, whether on Linux, Windows, or Macintosh.
J. User probably doesn't even have any documentation.

> He wants the interface so intuitive he dont have to,

J. User has no options for an "intuitive" interface, whether on Linux,
Windows, or Macintosh. J. User performs actions by rote.

> or he will call tech support.

J. User will find no support by calling, whether of Linux or Windows -- I
don't know about Apple.

> Currently I beleive the tech support for the major distros is somewhat
> lacking.

Which of the "major distros" promised tech support?

> 3) Linux comes with only selected OEMs.

OEMs find it more profitable to bundle Microsoft's version of Windows with
everything they sell.  It costs them nothing and increased sales may lead
to increased discounts.

> 4) Try finding a boxed set in a store. [...] More box sets=more
> customers=more manufacturer support.

J. User buys, on impulse, a copy of Linux in a store.  J. User installs or
tries to install Linux.  J. User fails (or succeeds), and swears off Linux
forever.

> 1) For the most part Virus free.

There's no evidence of a harmful Linux virus, although one is in theory
possible.  In any case, J. User accepts viruses as a given.

> 2) Puts freedom in the hands of the user.

J. User doesn't care about freedom, whether on Linux, Windows, or
Macintosh.

> 3) No Legal Worries!!

J. User has no legal worries, whether on Linux, Windows, or Macintosh.

> 4) Power to make the solutions [...]

J. User has no use for buzzwords like "solutions", whether on Linux,
Windows, or Macintosh.

> [...] that work best for the client/customer/user/et al.

J. User takes what it's given, whether on Linux, Windows, or Macintosh.

begin  Godric de Mimsy Porpignions wrote:

> 
> "Peter K�hlmann" <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:cgmn5e$687$06$2@news.t-online.com...

Note: *nothing* was quoted. Not the tiniest little bit.
Well, comes with being an OE user, I suspect. Only the dumbest of the really
clueless use such garbage

> So, even if windows was online for dowload for free, it still would'nt be
> free.
> #1Computer and/or modem
> #2 Internet Connection
> #3 Time to dowload
> #4 CD's to burn on to
> #5 Burning software,
> etc.etc. Same for linux

You have no concept of "free".

Hint: It has *nothing* at all to do with cost.

When I will be able to use and modify windows source code, come back to the
discussion. Until then, get lost
-- 
Warning: You have moved the mouse. 
Windows will reboot now to make the change permanent

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:30:09 -0400,
 Godric de Mimsy Porpignions <godricdemimsyporpignions@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
> "Peter K�hlmann" <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:cgmn5e$687$06$2@news.t-online.com...
> So, even if windows was online for dowload for free, it still would'nt be
> free.
> #1Computer and/or modem
> #2 Internet Connection
> #3 Time to dowload
> #4 CD's to burn on to
> #5 Burning software,
> etc.etc. Same for linux
>
>


Want me to mail you a Knoppix 3.6 CD? free? as in Gratis & Libre? 

Oops, guess your point went up in a puff of smoke. 

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=hTdE
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-- 
Jim Richardson     http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"The way NT mounts filesystems is something I'd expect to find
 in a barnyard or on a stock-breeding farm." 
	--Mike Andrews in the Monastery

Godric de Mimsy Porpignions wrote:
> "Peter K�hlmann" <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:cgmn5e$687$06$2@news.t-online.com...
> So, even if windows was online for dowload for free, it still would'nt be
> free.
> #1Computer and/or modem
> #2 Internet Connection
> #3 Time to dowload
> #4 CD's to burn on to

You can save same CDs...

> #5 Burning software,

if you use a real flame to burn the software...

> etc.etc. Same for linux

and use the real thing.

> 
> 


-- 

Jose Maria Lopez Hernandez
Director Tecnico de bgSEC
jkerouac@bgsec.com
bgSEC Seguridad y Consultoria de Sistemas Informaticos
http://www.bgsec.com
ESPA�A

The only people for me are the mad ones -- the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn
like fabulous yellow Roman candles.
                 -- Jack Kerouac, "On the Road"

Baba Booey the Microsoft anti-Linux Jihadist wrote:

> It's pretty easy to see why Linux has such a small market penetration
> despite being a free product.Linux is just horrible compared to
> Windows.I recently tried installing Mandrake 10 

Linux has a very sizeable share of the server market, which no doubt makes
you very nervous.

Why did you choose Mandrake?
You complain about commmercial support, but you didn't use RedHat,
which is the most commercial Linux distro in North America, in my opinion.
Why is that?
Did you even try another distro?  What about SUSE?
I suspect that you are interested only in propaganda and disinformation,
and not on setting up your system.
I will explain why I believe that.

> on my Pentium 4 system
> and it was pathetic how poor Linux is at supporting fairly common
> hardware.

Linux not only supports common hardware, but some really bizarre and obscure
hardware.
Hardware that Linux supports includes Sun Sparc, IBM, Motorola, SGI, Atari
You can even boot Linux from a CardFlash card.  Try THAT with Windows!
I think that if your experience is real, which I seriously doubt, you didn't
try very hard to get things to work.  I think you are lying.
MUCH more hardware is supported under Linux than will ever be supported
by Windows.
Why are you so incompetent?

> My lexmark printer did not work.

My Lexmark Z32, HP Deskjet 550c and 640c have all worked, without 
having to update any drivers that come standard with RedHat 9.
The CUPS printing subsystem is MUCH more robust than the Windows
printing subsystem.  I know because I tested it while porting 
WindowsNT at Sun Microsystems.  The Windows printing system, 
according to the lead developer on the project "blows", and he
is an MIT grad with an MS in CIS who worked for Microsoft, before
he quit MS in disgust.

> My USB storage device did not work.

Bullshit.  I am a photographer with a Nikon Coolpix 950, and my
USB Cardflash II reader has never had a problem, ever.
I downloaded photos just last night.
Maybe you just don't know how to mount a device.
It's easy.  I can explain it if you would like.
http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/c122.html
If you didn't get it working, you didn't try.

> My Canon scanner did not work.

You didn't say which model you have, which is important.
http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/Hardware-HOWTO/scanners.html
My UMAX Astra 1220S scanner works.
What was your issue?  You don't even say.
Sounds suspicious to me.  Hmmmm.
Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) seems to be your problem.

> My Matrox G650 board only worked in standard supervga and none of the
> advanced functions of it would work.

Here again, you are just plain lying.
There are even drivers to accomodate my EOLd 
3Dfx Voodoo3 card, much to my surprise, as the company has
long been out of business.
I used to use a Matrox card because it has the highest level
of support for RedHat, but I now use the Voodoo3.
The Matrox card that I used to use was a basic card, but
it still supported 1280x960 and thousands of colors.
The 3Dfx supports much higher resolutions and millions of colors, 
and it's much faster.
You could not possibly have had a problem with a Matrox card.
Redhat has written a configuration program that will setup
your display card and monitor.

> My emagic MIDI interface did not work.

How much MIDI are you doing?  Heh.
Playing a lot of games, are we?  Recording some game program audio?
Tell me what it is that you are doing with the EMagic.  I'm curious.

I have an older Intel prototype that shouldn't even be supported, as it was
never realeased to the public (heh) and it works wonderfully, 
and is reasonably fast, even though it's a PII 350Mhz.

Here is where you should have gone to find emagic MIDI support for Linux:
http://www.synthzone.com/digaudio.htm
http://linux-sound.org/drivers.html

or better yet, here:
http://www.sipkema-digital.com/~msipkema/audiowerk.shtml
" I've written a low level Linux kernel driver and a user space JACK driver
for Emagic's Audiowerk8 audio card. It is based on the GPL'ed source of an
old Windows driver, GNUaw8.98oct07.zip, provided by Emagic. The people at
Emagic haven't been as helpfull as I'd like. They wouldn't give me any
information at first"

You can attack the writer of this driver for his lack of "professionalism",
but you cannot attack the fact that he wrote a driver for YOU, 
and provided it for FREE.
What an ungrateful and lazy person you are.
You owe Martijn Sipkema an apology.

> My wireless network card did not work.

Again, no specifics, which makes me suspicious of your motives.

My bargain basement Asian ethernet 3com knockoff card was effortless 
to install, and it cost me all of five dollars.
It has worked well though several Linux distributions, starting with
RedHat 6.2 up to version 9, and also FreeBSD 4.0.
What the hell is your problem?  Are you THAT lame?
Are you not able to troubleshoot a single problem?
Ethernet cards have more concentration of support than just about any
other device.

> My modem did not work but I think it might be a winomodem so I let
> that slide.

There is currently support for some Winmodems.
http://walbran.org/sean/linux/linmodem-howto.html
http://list.nmlug.org/nmlug/1999-December/msg00083.html
http://www.linuxgazette.com/node/view/4817
You didn't even look.  Shame on you for spreading disinformation.

> My USB keyboard required playing with settings to work although it
> worked fine when installing Mandrake.


USB support for keyboards and mice are relatively new, and I don't
have that on my system, but they are certainly supported.
One quick look even on this forum would have solved whatever issue
you might have.
Do you have a problem with configuring a mouse?  Jeez Louis.

> The extra buttons on my wireless mouse do not work

http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/c122.html
Support is there.  You apparently cannot figure out how to install
software properly.  How pathetic and sad for you.
You could have received help here if you had been polite enough to ask.

> Linux looks terrible compared to Windows and the programs are equally
> awful.

Opinion not based on fact.
I think that Linux looks great, so my opinion trumps yours. :)

> Kde is slow and seems to take forever to do simple things even on a
> 2.4ghz processor with 2 gig of main memory.

Lies. Pure lies.
I use KDE, and have since 1.1, and have even submitted bugs on it.
I works very well, and is a hell of a lot faster on my lowly PII 350Mhz
than Windows client versions ever were.
I couldn't even run Windows XP on my system.
With a system like that, you should not have any speed issues,
so you are obviously lying here.  Why is that?
What a shame that you have such a need to stain the reputation of those
who donate their time freely to make excellent software.
You insult my efforts to help KDE as well.

> Gimp is no Photoshop that is for certain.

I have used both for years, and I prefer the GIMP.
Photoshop is VERY expensive and requires a huge learning curve.
I can use the GIMP faster and easier than I could ever use Photoshop,
and I'm clever and educated.
This of course is an opinion, so again, my opinion trumps yours. :)

> Openoffice makes a mess of my previously saved Word documents and
> although they are readable I am going to have to spend days fixing up
> the formatting.

Absolute lies.  This is a slimy attack.
OpenOffice is software that I tested when it was StarOffice,
and I worked at Sun Microsystems, so you are insulting me personally.
OpenOffice was an answer to FrameMaker, AbiWord, and some other document
processor programs that would actually munge the Word format, if they
could even read Word format.  It was a one way trip.
Star/OpenOffice changed all that, and made it even better.
OpenOffice does a better job at preserving formats from version to version
than MS Word does.  I have had documents ruined by moving from one version
of Word to another.  Everyone who has been using Word for awhile has
experienced this data loss.
Ever created a document in Word 2K and tried to have Word 95/97 open it?
I have, and it doesn't work properly.

> I hate kopete because it doesn't have any of the advanced features of
> AIM and neither does gaim.

There is Yahoo Messenger for Linux, although it's buggy and raw, and a
one-dot-OH! it works after a fashion, being new, and so does GAIM.
Again, you get what you pay for.
GAIM is superior because there is a secure plug-in that allows for
encrypted communications, which are important as a business tool.
None of the other programs have this that I am aware of.
AIM is responsible for security problems, and I spoke recently with one
man who was fired from his job for his daughter using it on his work PC.
GAIM is new, and has a ways to go, but it still works better than AIM,
if only for security reasons.

> It took me 2 days to figure out how to get sound out of my
> Soundblaster Live and I still can't get 5.1.

Gawd.  Two days?!  That can't be true.
I have the SB32 Live! card, and I have 5.1 working, and it took me
less than ten minutes, including installing the card.
What's your malfunction?
This card is the most supported sound card for Linux.
Ask anyone.
Look it up if you disbelieve.

> I haven't figured out how to get my CD to play music CDs.
> It seems to be playing but I get no sound and all the volume controls
> are up and not muted.

Can you not even tell whether music is playing?
Are you familiar with a process table?  Wow.  Even Windows tells you
what programs are running.  How difficult is that?
Look at the KDE System Guard to identify processes and see if music is
playing.
Why is it that I have a CD reader/writer AND a DVD reader installed,
and I have no problems making CDs or reading from any disk?
I make my own photo CDs for friends and family.
I use XCDRoast/cdrecord.  What are you using?
I'll bet you didn't even think that there was CD recording software, huh?
If you really wanted help with this, why didn't you ask?
No doubt any number of people would be more than happy to help you -
for free!  Not me, of course, not after you insulted me and my work.

> Looking around at the programs included with Linux it's pretty obvious
> that they are works in progress

I have news for you.
All software is either a work in progress, or it's dead. (End of Lifed)
Most decent software is a work in progress.
Most Windows software that I have used is now dead, useless, EOLed
Planned obselesence is the way to the Windows world.
Not so much of that in Linux, thank God.
Do you have a problem with software being worked on and viable?

Realplayer for Linux is a 10.0, and is still a work in progress.
Evolution is stable at 1.4, and is still a work in progress.
Konqueror is 3.1, rock solid, and is still a work in progress.
Mozilla 1.7.2 is a defacto standard browser, which handles Flash animation,
and is more secure than Explorer, and is more full featured,
and is still a work in progress.

One of the things that I have always HATED about Microsoft compatible
software is that it's always being EOLed, and you have to fork
over yet more cash for yet another version of what you already have and
like.  Many times the upgrade breaks some other software, and you have
to upgrade that as well.
You are often forced to upgrade due to security flaws, as in Explorer.
XP now has a HUGE security upgrade package (SP2) and it's causing major
breakage and costs for businesses worldwide.
The dependancies and security problems are not nearly as bad with Linux.

> and most are terrible with no help system and no directions as to how to
go about using them.

Some program provide built in help, and some don't, 
but you get what you pay for.
Most developers don't like writing help, so they don't.
This is also true in the Windows world.  Get used to it.

There are lots of online resources for help, and this is one of them.
Help systems are now routinely posted on the web.
Were you not aware of this fact?
Maybe you are unfamiliar with how to get help, which is really sad.

RedHat distro comes with an entire set of help disks, and it's all available
online:
http://www.redhat.com/docs/
You haven't looked very hard.
Even Mandrake has help built in.
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/fdoc.php3
You have lied about the documentation "help system" for Mandrake.
Here is the help for SUSE Linux:
http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/online_help/howto/


> Mplayer is a mess and doesn't seem to want to play half the files I
> toss at it.

I compiled MPlayer, and it works great, even on Firefox 9.3 and
Mozilla.
It worked the first time I used it, and supports a wide range of formats.
I still prefer Realplayer or MP3 for audio, as MPlayer playing Windows Media
Audio
files sounds a bit tinny, but of course, the binaries are compiled to run
on Windows.  Again, you get what you pay for.
Also, Windows Media Player format sucks ass, and is deliberately not cross
platform, although it could easily be.
The audio format is definitely inferior, so I only use it for streaming
talk radio.

> I have downloaded some CODEC package and this helped with
> some formats but others just die and mplayer locks up solid.

You have to compile the modules in from the beginning, and make sure
that the libraries are installed also.  Read the manual!
Read the documents on MPlayer and recompile, and it will work.

> All in all in my opinion, Linux is nothing but a failed experiment for
> a desktop system.

I feel the same way about Windows, but this is an opinion, and again,
since your opinion is not based on any facts, my opinion trumps yours! 

The fact is that many people like me have used Linux as their only desktop
for years, and it's only improving, whereas Windows has some huge security
problems today, and the folks in Redmond have not taken adequate steps
to prevent spyware and exploits, and have only sought to shut people up
who expose these large are numerous security problems.
(I read the trade press too and I can site articles).
Last week a teenager in Minnesota was arrested for the Blaster worm variant.
Had Microsoft done a better job of securing the OS, it would not have been
possible for a worm to exploit so many users, destroying their data.
Shame on you Steve Ballmer!

> Linux should give up trying to be a gui system for jack user and stop
> trying to be like Windows because it will never be as professional and
> stable as Windows is.

A little history lesson is in order.
Windows and X have evolved seperately, and Motif/X has been around 
just as long as Windows, and in fact WindowsNT was designed and written
by Dave Cutler of Digital Equipment, based on an older flavor of VMS,
which arguably is a Unix variant.

If being full of security flaws and bad design
(I have personally read the code behind WindowsNT, and it's a mess!)
then I am happy to be unassociated with that kind of "professionalism"
Linux and FreeBSD are far more stable than Windows Server can ever hope
to be, and this is why there is one feature missing from Windows Server
that is standard on every major flavor of Unix, and that is an
UPTIME counter that count's uptime in months and years.
When the good folks at Redmond are allowed by the wrongheaded management
to fix the serial port buffer overflow potential exploit, then great.
Until then, Windows is an inferior "clone" of VMS, and is far less
stable than most Unix variants, save maybe SCO Unix, which sucks.

> Linux should remain a server operating system with a text prompt for
> geeks because that is what it does best.

Ah, but here is where you show your extreme ignorance of such matters.
Linux, and every other flavor of Unix still HAS the "text prompt",
also known as the shell, or the command prompt.
It's always been there, and it makes Linux a good choice because programs
can be scripted quickly, easily, and in a way that is cross platform.
This can be done with Windows Server, but it's not easy, and it's a
design afterthought, not a built in feature.
Most programmer install a real shell, like MKS.
On WindowsNT, you need to install a worthwhile scripting environment,
as the standard command shell is completely inadequate for anything
more than a simple lame batch script, which is not portable in any way.

> It's no wonder that desktop users are not moving to Linux even though
> Linux is free because Linux just plain sucks.

Ah, but your insults don't hurt, because you are lying.
Linux users are multiplying in droves, especially among students.
I myself installed a Linux servers and serveral clients in a local
high school.  Linux and OSX on laptops are more common on college campuses
than Windows in my college town.
Linux is the future, and that galls you.  Good.
Sucks to be you, especially since you have such wonderful hardware,
but not the brain to use it.
You should sell your nice box at a steep loss, 
so that some *real* user can put Linux on there, and have the fastest, most
stable and most extensible OS that they could have, and have it for free.

Reindeer wrote:

> Baba Booey the Microsoft anti-Linux Jihadist wrote:
> 

Is that you again, Flatfish?