Back in August, there was a thread which started by asking the
question "what would it take for Linux to go mainstream."

Some observations...

For Linux to "tip" it has to be a complete solution. Today it is a way
to take an old PC and run productive work on it.

Our company sells to software developers. Do Linux software developers
have money to spend and will they spend it on tools?

I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
install, no results. Very frustrating.

Who tests open source software? We use VNC heavily but there are many
versions which have very different facilities, some of which work and
some don't.

All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.

> john mcintosh (john@mcintosh.net) wrote on comp.os.linux.advocacy
(Friday 02 January 2004 16:21) :
> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
> install, no results. Very frustrating.

   I've installed it under Windows and under Linux, and previous to
OpenOffice I had installed StarOffice. Both of them included
installation instructions, with no music, but with the exact procedure.
It worked always okay, just as the instructions told.

> All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.

   Linux has already taken off.

-- 

   Robert Foster.

Robert Foster wrote:

>> john mcintosh (john@mcintosh.net) wrote on comp.os.linux.advocacy
> (Friday 02 January 2004 16:21) :
>> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
>> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
>> install, no results. Very frustrating.
> 
>    I've installed it under Windows and under Linux, and previous to
> OpenOffice I had installed StarOffice. Both of them included
> installation instructions, with no music, but with the exact procedure.
> It worked always okay, just as the instructions told.
> 
>> All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.
> 
>    Linux has already taken off.
> 

"john mcintosh" is just the typical example of an run off the mill google
troll. Perhaps slightly on the dumb side
-- 
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

On 2 Jan 2004 07:21:26 -0800, john mcintosh wrote:

 > For Linux to "tip" it has to be a complete solution. 

Complete solution to what? Are you suggesting Windows-xxx or Mac-OSX are
"complete solutions" to everything?

 > Our company sells to software developers. Do Linux software developers
 > have money to spend and will they spend it on tools?

Most of them are completely satisfied with the tools available in any
Linux distribution. This is your problem, not Linux's.

 > I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
 > and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
 > install, no results. Very frustrating.

At 

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ooo-osx_downloads.html

I see some 30 possible download sites. Did you try three sites or
the same site three times? "Progress report on the install"? Did you
mean progress report on the download? Use a browser that gives you a
progress report on the download. And you claim to sell tools to software
developers?

 > Who tests open source software? We use VNC heavily but there are many
 > versions which have very different facilities, some of which work and
 > some don't.

It sounds like you need someone like Steve or Bill to hold your hand and
tell you which software to use. If you need that kind of hand-holding,
stick to a distribution that selects "best-of-breed" software for you
and don't try anything else.

 > All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.

Thank you for sharing your deep insights with us.

john mcintosh wrote:

> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
> install, no results. Very frustrating.

OpenOffice does not run on top of the Quartz and Aqua layers. That means
there is no "native" Mac OS X version that you can install directly on the
machine.

Instead, the version touted as OpenOffice for Mac needs X Windows downloaded
and installed to run. To run the "Mac" (actually, Darwin) version of
OpenOffice, you launch X Windows then you launch OpenOffice.

By the way, I installed it with only minimal difficulty (forgot to launch X
Windows prior to install). It works perfectly on the Mac I maintain.

J.

Fearing a spontaneous XP reboot, john mcintosh mumbled this incantation:

> For Linux to "tip" it has to be a complete solution. Today it is a way
> to take an old PC and run productive work on it.

Much more than that, dude.

> Our company sells to software developers. Do Linux software developers
> have money to spend and will they spend it on tools?

Some do, some don't.  You have to have some pretty damn good
proprietary tools to not convince people to buy it, but to convince
people it is better than Free tools.

Free tools are incredibly good.

> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
> install, no results. Very frustrating.

What's that have to do with Linux?  Sounds like bullshit anyway, since
all downloaders, even text-only ones, provide progress indicators.

> Who tests open source software? We use VNC heavily but there are many
> versions which have very different facilities, some of which work and
> some don't.

Everyone test OSS, just like everyone tests Microsoft software and other
proprietary packages.  The difference is that, to test the latter,
**you** pay.

> All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.

Bullshit.  Everything you mentioned here is bogus.

-- 
No, I won't fix your Windows computer!

On 2004-01-02, john mcintosh <john@mcintosh.net> blubbered:
> Back in August, there was a thread which started by asking the
> question "what would it take for Linux to go mainstream."
>
> Some observations...

Good. It's about time someone came along and set us straight! Why,
there hasn't been one of these posts for, oh, 15 minutes or so.

Let's see where this takes us.

> For Linux to "tip" it has to be a complete solution. Today it is a way
> to take an old PC and run productive work on it.

You're right. That leap in numbers of companies and individuals making
news for their complete switch is just a mirage. Even Stevie "Monkey
Boy" Blammer doesnt buy any of it. Why, he'd no more run off to other
countries to threaten and practically give things away than I'd think
Windwoes was the cat's meow!

> Our company sells to software developers. Do Linux software developers
> have money to spend and will they spend it on tools?

I'm glad we finally got a software company/developer in here (today).
We need more feedback from such competent people. After all, linux
doesn't have any of those.

> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
> install, no results. Very frustrating.

http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs.html

"......Platforms currently supported include Microsoft Windows, Linux,
Sun Solaris, Mac OS X (under X11)...."

There's the first part. It /requires/ X11. Did you try that part?

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ooo-osx_downloads.html

With links to (among other things):

General FAQ
Installing Apple X11
Start OpenOffice.org Finder Integration
Having Problems Installing?

One might think you weren't trying to get it installed in the first
place. But, as we all know, google posters to COLA are among the most
trusted and honest sources available.

Right guys?

Guys?

-- 
Nimda: An original Microsoft web crawler.

Lin�nut wrote:

>> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
>> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
>> install, no results. Very frustrating.
> 
> What's that have to do with Linux?  Sounds like bullshit anyway, since
> all downloaders, even text-only ones, provide progress indicators.

This is not strictly true - all downloaders provide progress indication but 
not all download sites provide the size information needed to show the 
indication (usually seen on GUI downloaders as 'total' being same as amount 
downloaded throughout whole download process).

-- 
Nigel Feltham - spanking trolls since 1999

On 2004-01-02, Robert Foster <robert_foster@altavista.com> wrote:
>> john mcintosh (john@mcintosh.net) wrote on comp.os.linux.advocacy
> (Friday 02 January 2004 16:21) :
>> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
>> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the
>> install, no results. Very frustrating.

What does the MACINTOSH version of ANY application have to do with
Linux? Using your logic, a haphazard version of msoffice for mac
would indict the x86 version.

>
>    I've installed it under Windows and under Linux, and previous to
> OpenOffice I had installed StarOffice. Both of them included
> installation instructions, with no music, but with the exact procedure.
> It worked always okay, just as the instructions told.
>
>> All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.

Try the LINUX version first before making stupid comments.

>
>    Linux has already taken off.
>


-- 
There's no reason not to contribute to the stone soup if those    |||
contributions are not critical to your competitive edge.         / | \


                                                     

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 07:21:26 -0800, john mcintosh wrote:

> Back in August, there was a thread which started by asking the
> question "what would it take for Linux to go mainstream."
> 
> Some observations...
> 
> For Linux to "tip" it has to be a complete solution. 

Let's see, excellant office tools, lots of games, great internet programs,
lots of various software of all types.... It's a pretty complete solution
from where I sit.

> Today it is a way
> to take an old PC and run productive work on it.

Or a brand spanking new PC. Or a Mac. Or a Playstation 2. Or PDAs. Or a
bunch of other platforms. Isn't Linux great!

> 
> Our company sells to software developers. Do Linux software developers
> have money to spend and will they spend it on tools?


The tools are free, unlike Windows and MacOS.

> 
> I just tried downloading OpenOffice for Mac OS X. I tried three times
> and quit. There were no instructions, no progress report on the install,
> no results. Very frustrating.

Wait....but you're supposed to be bitching about /Linux/ remember? This
isn't a Linux problem, you're having a MacOS problem. Trying to install
software on a Mac, that's also avaliable on Linux, and then bitching about
Linux is stupid....Linux isn't giving you trouble. OO.org installs and
runs on Linux without any problems. Your issue is with the Mac. Go bitch
at Steve Jobs.

> 
> Who tests open source software?

The teams of people who work on OSS. If you go and look at sourceforge
you'll see that OSS development is rarely a solo effort. This is
especially true on large projects. Just like the CSS world.

> We use VNC heavily but there are many versions which have very different
> facilities, some of which work and some don't.

So use one version, the one that works. I don't see the problem here.
Maybe you should stay away from the alpha and beta versions, and make sure
that your trying the ones for the correct hardware. Just a thought.

> 
> All of these problems have to be fixed before Linux takes off.

What problems, you have yet to mention any real problem.